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Giants' pass rush personnel

Angel Eyes : 7/12/2021 4:00 pm
So the NY Post published an article this morning about the edge rushers on the Giants. Suffice it to say, it's still shaky, filled with unproven veterans, free agents on one-year deals, and rookies. None of the returning edge guys had more than 2 sacks.

Now how are the Giants going to approach the pass rush (this includes the defensive line)? Complex blitz packages by scheme like last year? Rush 4 or 5?

Starting with the defensive line:

Leonard Williams is probably the closest answer right now coming off a 11.5-sack year, but he can't shoulder the pass rush by himself. When he doesn't get to the quarterback, nobody does.

For all the talk about Dexter Lawrence being the next pro-bowler, he's gotta get better and quicker at rushing the passer to become a more three-dimensional player. Lawrence has established himself as a great run defender, but Pro Bowl voters look for someone who can get 6-8 sacks when it comes to defensive tackles. Should the Giants use him more on passing downs since he's been on the field for less than 65% of the time?

For the edge guys: I feel like the Giants don't go anywhere without a strong presence at edge, having grown up watching Lawrence Taylor on film and Michael Strahan on TV, and so far what the Giants have is not encouraging for me. Carter and Ximines are both coming off of injury and have disappointed so far, Coughlin (who is switching to inside linebacker), Brown, Lalos, and Harris have had little playing time, Odenigbo (who is admittedly a solid situational rusher) and Anderson are only here on one-year deals, and Ojulari and Smith are rookies.

So have we upgraded? Who's gonna step up? Does the Patriot Way not allow for good edge rushers? Should we look to add another pass rusher in next year's draft?

If at least one of our guys prove their mettle with a 10+ sack season, I'll graciously eat my hat.
Edge rusher remains very shaky spot for Giants - ( New Window )
Your opening paragraph is an accurate  
NYRiese : 7/12/2021 4:14 pm : link
and succinct appraisal...what’s it doing on BBI?
RE: Your opening paragraph is an accurate  
Angel Eyes : 7/12/2021 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15303947 NYRiese said:
Quote:
and succinct appraisal...what’s it doing on BBI?

Call it facts.
You should include arguably the Best Secondary in Giants history  
George from PA : 7/12/2021 4:20 pm : link
This defense will not be easy to attack.....even if its pass pressure by committee
Here's an idea, and I'm just spitballing here...  
Klaatu : 7/12/2021 4:22 pm : link
But how about you stop obsessing over the Giants pass-rush since we're still two weeks away from the start of training camp? You keep asking questions that are impossible to answer right now. We don't even know who's going to make the squad and who won't, or what plans Graham & Co. have for the ones that do. Sheesh. Give it a rest.
Since you bring up the Pats...  
Johnny5 : 7/12/2021 4:34 pm : link
I'll reference the 2019 Pats Super Bowl team. Their pass ruch was fierce, especially in the playoffs (ESPECIALLY against the Chiefs).

That was overall team depth and scheme. And man, especially in that AFC championship game, their pass rush was intense. They kept KC under wraps really until about the last half of the 4th quarter.

Other than Van Noy I can't think of a notable rusher they had on that squad off the top o' me head.
One thing about this era of Giant football  
ghost718 : 7/12/2021 4:56 pm : link
The thinking between the fans and the team doesn't always line up.

The fans might see Pete Monty,Ryan Phillips,Gerris Wilkinson,and Chuck Faucette. The Giants see LT,Sam Huff,Van Pelt,and Banks.

Like the movie Shallow Hal
RE: Here's an idea, and I'm just spitballing here...  
Angel Eyes : 7/12/2021 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15303956 Klaatu said:
Quote:
But how about you stop obsessing over the Giants pass-rush since we're still two weeks away from the start of training camp? You keep asking questions that are impossible to answer right now. We don't even know who's going to make the squad and who won't, or what plans Graham & Co. have for the ones that do. Sheesh. Give it a rest.

Evidently I'm not the only person who's concerned about the pass rush (these guys will be covering tight ends next) and I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't worried. Everybody's got something they're worried about; Jones, the wide receivers, the offensive line. For me it's the pass rush because I feel like it's something the Giants never do well without.
Why worry?  
chick310 : 7/12/2021 5:08 pm : link
Added the best edge rusher in the draft in Ojulari. Added another developmental one later. Carter and X-man coming back. Big Leonard is worth easily 13-14 sacks based on last year and now finally satisfied with his contract. Big Dex is reaching his prime and ready to explode. And Giants have one of the best defensive minds pulling all the right strings in Pat Graham.

Think '85 Bears.

RE: One thing about this era of Giant football  
Johnny5 : 7/12/2021 5:19 pm : link
In comment 15303986 ghost718 said:
Quote:
The thinking between the fans and the team doesn't always line up.

The fans might see Pete Monty,Ryan Phillips,Gerris Wilkinson,and Chuck Faucette. The Giants see LT,Sam Huff,Van Pelt,and Banks.

Like the movie Shallow Hal

Ha! Ok the shallow Hal line made me chuckle. Well done.
RE: RE: Here's an idea, and I'm just spitballing here...  
Klaatu : 7/12/2021 5:23 pm : link
In comment 15303993 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15303956 Klaatu said:


Quote:


But how about you stop obsessing over the Giants pass-rush since we're still two weeks away from the start of training camp? You keep asking questions that are impossible to answer right now. We don't even know who's going to make the squad and who won't, or what plans Graham & Co. have for the ones that do. Sheesh. Give it a rest.


Evidently I'm not the only person who's concerned about the pass rush (these guys will be covering tight ends next) and I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't worried. Everybody's got something they're worried about; Jones, the wide receivers, the offensive line. For me it's the pass rush because I feel like it's something the Giants never do well without.


Everyone's concerned, about a lot of things, but everyone doesn't either start a thread about the pass-rush (and how concerned they are about it), or post about it (and how concerned they are) on numerous other threads. You're turning concerns about the pass-rush into a cottage industry. And as I said above, we're still two weeks away from the start of camp, and you keep on asking questions - often the same ones - that can't possibly be answered now. Stop obsessing over it.

Relax. Listen to some music.
The giants had  
TrueBlue56 : 7/12/2021 5:36 pm : link
40 sacks last year, which was 12th among NFL teams. That was with injuries to Carter and ximines. That is also with a weak spot at corner. That is also with 14 different players contributing to that sack total. Outside of Williams (11.5), no one had more than 4 sacks.

This year, they have improved the secondary and they have added more players with pass rush abilities. Patrick Graham has shown creativity in his defensive schemes and disguising coverages. This is going to be a pass rush by committee type of team, but in the end hopefully it will equal to more pressures, turnover opportunities and sacks.
The Giants improved their pass rush by signing  
robbieballs2003 : 7/12/2021 5:53 pm : link
Adoree Jackson and drafting Aaron Robinson.
I doubt if the coaches  
Gman11 : 7/12/2021 6:32 pm : link
care if Lawrence makes the Pro Bowl as long as he does what they want him to do.
I am pretty excited about ER possibilities  
Payasdaddy : 7/12/2021 7:36 pm : link
Ojulari, a possibility healthy carter, xman, Ryan Anderson, the Vikings signee that I can’t spell his name, Elerson smith potential
None are all pro’s , most may not be close
But talent wise, a step above last yr. maybe two
And some real potential for possible multiple 8-10 sack guys
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/12/2021 7:41 pm : link
Ojulari could end up being a freaking steal. I still can't believe we got him @ 50.
typical Schwarz nonsense  
bc4life : 7/12/2021 8:50 pm : link
Giants knew this was a weakness and made a huge effort to address it. Their best sack artist is back. Carter is coming back and they drafted one of the best edge rushers in draft and an intriguing project in Smith. And Odenigbo was signed. And at least 2 of their interiorDL defy one-on-one blocking, which will also impact the pass rush.

Giants have weaknesses and question marks but this is not an area I'm overly concerned about.
Medium floor w High Ceiling IMO  
Reale01 : 7/12/2021 11:34 pm : link
The players are much better on paper this year. Only losses are Tomlinson and Fackerel. Gains are Carter X-man Anderson Ojulari Ellison Odenigbo and Smith. Brown may improve. A lot of upside in that group and nobody who is likely to be worse. McKinney's presence will also make it easier to turn Peppers loose. All that and they were 12th in the league last year with a much weaker cast. Concern is warranted, but I am more concerned with the o-line, Jones. and a healthy Barkley.
They have lots of good players  
section125 : 7/13/2021 7:51 am : link
and maybe only 1 exceptional one in LW. We also do not know what Patrick Graham plans to do and who he wants to step into the ER/PR role.

But there is training camp and associated injuries and associated improvements. It very well may come down to the health of the secondary starting September.
Ellerson Smith once fills out that frame a little is going to be  
BBWreckingCrew : 7/13/2021 8:40 am : link
one of our best pass rushers. Guy has what it takes. Nice pick there w him out of a small school.
I think the Giants put together an  
Dnew15 : 7/13/2021 9:13 am : link
interesting group of LBs.

There's a bunch of guys that can set the edge- good luck trying to run against this defense

There's some guys that can cover.

There's some guys that are thumpers.

There's some guys that (theoretically) can rush the passer.

There's no doubt that the front 3 and back 7 are going to carry this defense.

Graham and JJ's goal from day one was to be multiple - they have the tools to be just that this year. I can't wait to see it.
If none..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/13/2021 9:25 am : link
of the edge guys stand out from the pack, the Giants could still implement a rotation of 5/6 to keep the rush fresh throughout the game. Carter is coming off an injury, but was showing flashes. Ximines is an unknown, Ojulari and Smith were drafted and Odingbo was signed. It's a deep group, even if none of the players right now are considered top tier, the collection of them could work out fine.
The secondary was built to help with QB pressures  
gersh : 7/13/2021 9:29 am : link
Adore and Robinson were brought in to help with man-to-man coverage.
The safeties allow for both coverage and blitzing options.

Graham’s defense last year was so impressive because of its limitations. With the improved personnel he will really be able to confuse offenses.
There's certainly room for improvement, but weren't the Giants 12th in  
Ira : 7/13/2021 9:31 am : link
the league in sacks last season? And the addition of a better starting corner and the drafting of 2 promising pass rushers makes me wonder if they aren't going to improve on that ranking in the coming season.
RE: Since you bring up the Pats...  
giants#1 : 7/13/2021 9:45 am : link
In comment 15303970 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
I'll reference the 2019 Pats Super Bowl team. Their pass ruch was fierce, especially in the playoffs (ESPECIALLY against the Chiefs).

That was overall team depth and scheme. And man, especially in that AFC championship game, their pass rush was intense. They kept KC under wraps really until about the last half of the 4th quarter.

Other than Van Noy I can't think of a notable rusher they had on that squad off the top o' me head.


And it's not like Van Noy is a stud pass rusher. He has 23.5 sacks in 7 seasons with a career high of 6.5...
It's an interesting group.  
mittenedman : 7/13/2021 9:50 am : link
It's a far cry from Strahan/Osi/Tuck/Kiwi/Tollefson, but they have a lot of guys with the potential for solid years - Carter, Anderson and Elerson Smith in particular.

Smith is a guy who I think would've gone much higher in a normal draft year.
as another poster said  
giants#1 : 7/13/2021 9:53 am : link
the Giants finished 12th in sacks last year despite the deficiencies you highlighted. Perhaps more importantly, they were 10th in pressure % which included being 6th in QBKD% so it's not like they just racked up some fluky sacks. They consistently got to the QB and hit him. And they were not a heavy blitz team. Finished 20th in the league with a blitz% = 25.5% (Baltimore led the league at 44.1%).

They improved their secondary via FA and the draft which should aid the pass rush and also added some edge options that can likely outperform the guys they loss (namely Fackrell).

I like some of Ojulari's game. Lets see how well he takes  
Jimmy Googs : 7/13/2021 10:01 am : link
to NFL-caliber Offensive Tackles on a weekly basis, and physical punishment of a long season though.

He will need to bulk up a bit, but it would nice to see some impactful plays from him as a rookie to give him and the coaches some confidence that he can hold his own.

The rest of the Edge guys offer nothing special and obvious they went with quantity over quality in hopes to maybe get lucky. The Giants will likely still need to be looking for another Edge guy next offseason...
Sacks are great  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/13/2021 10:23 am : link
but so is pressure/hits. Uncomfortable QB's make mistakes. Preventing QB's from stepping up is critical. They already have the personnel for this.

They need this year to have some closers on the outside which is where Ojulari fits in and I expect very good results. The others will compete and contribute.

Schematically, the potential outstanding secondary will allow Graham to use personnel in creative blitzes. The whole package will work if the Giants first play good run defense to create unfavorable down/distance.
so  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 7/13/2021 11:11 am : link
in summary...

This was one of the team's major areas of weakness in 2020.

The team added a number of new components via free agency and the draft.

It remains to be seen how these new components perform.

(This is pretty much true of any team dealing with any weakness).
i didn't think there was a problem at edge last year  
djm : 7/13/2021 11:30 am : link
admittedly that was before Carter and X got hurt, but all in all I thought the unit would hold its own. I think it's better now, even if it isn't great.

You rarely have great units at every level of the D. But if the edge guys can hold their own this D will be just fine.

And there are the two rookies. There is upside unlike recent year's past.
Ojulari  
uther99 : 7/13/2021 12:03 pm : link
is the only guy I'm excited about. I guessing Carter's injury is too much to come back from and X might not even make the team. Smith, meh.
We dont need one guy to get 12 sacks  
Dankbeerman : 7/13/2021 1:34 pm : link
If we get 20 sacks from 4 or 5 guys getting 4 or 5 each.

Yes it would be nice if someone stepped up as the guy but I feel we have enough skill in the group to improve. We put our top priority on the Deffensive backfield and Im ok with that.

The big thing with Judge/Graham is that just about everyone dressed will get snaps. This is team deffense and all about playing Chess and using your pieces to attack.
...  
christian : 7/13/2021 3:59 pm : link
Keep in mind the 2020 Giants were:

- 10th in sacks
- 9th in pressures
- 9th in pressure percentage
- 6th in QB knockdowns
- 6th in TFLs
- 6th in rush yards per attempt

- Only two teams had 2 players with double digit sacks in 2020
- The Giants two leading blitzers were Martinez and Peppers
- The Giants had 22.5 sacks by down lineman

Maybe Graham prefers inside pass rush and the outside linebackers to set the edge? Maybe he'll play a lot of 3 corner, 3 safety looks?

In short, maybe this isn't a problem?
.........  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 7/13/2021 4:40 pm : link
I do like the strategy of loading up on veterans who were buried on the depth chart and hoping to find a gem.

It beats making the Olivier Vernons of the world the highest paid D-linemen in the league.
RE: RE: RE: Here's an idea, and I'm just spitballing here...  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/13/2021 5:46 pm : link
In comment 15304010 Klaatu said:
Quote:
In comment 15303993 Angel Eyes said:


Quote:


In comment 15303956 Klaatu said:


Quote:


But how about you stop obsessing over the Giants pass-rush since we're still two weeks away from the start of training camp? You keep asking questions that are impossible to answer right now. We don't even know who's going to make the squad and who won't, or what plans Graham & Co. have for the ones that do. Sheesh. Give it a rest.


Evidently I'm not the only person who's concerned about the pass rush (these guys will be covering tight ends next) and I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't worried. Everybody's got something they're worried about; Jones, the wide receivers, the offensive line. For me it's the pass rush because I feel like it's something the Giants never do well without.



Everyone's concerned, about a lot of things, but everyone doesn't either start a thread about the pass-rush (and how concerned they are about it), or post about it (and how concerned they are) on numerous other threads. You're turning concerns about the pass-rush into a cottage industry. And as I said above, we're still two weeks away from the start of camp, and you keep on asking questions - often the same ones - that can't possibly be answered now. Stop obsessing over it.

Relax. Listen to some music.

This.

The OP just seems to like seeing his name in lights on the active thread page.
 
christian : 7/13/2021 6:10 pm : link
Feels like some fan(s) would rather have a star edge rusher than a good pass rush.

The Giants had a pretty good pass rush last year, and it’s clear as day the emphasis was on pass rush up the middle not around the edge.

The Giants have invested in Williams, Lawrence, Martinez, and Peppers — these guys are getting pressure on the QB.

If you’re going to generate pressure up the middle as identity, you’re going to play a lot of contain and edge setting.

Simple example, the linebacker playing to Williams’s side is going to be playing contain a lot, because Williams is not. He’s a pass rusher, a really good one.
RE: …  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/13/2021 7:44 pm : link
In comment 15304727 christian said:
Quote:
Feels like some fan(s) would rather have a star edge rusher than a good pass rush.

The Giants had a pretty good pass rush last year, and it’s clear as day the emphasis was on pass rush up the middle not around the edge.

The Giants have invested in Williams, Lawrence, Martinez, and Peppers — these guys are getting pressure on the QB.

If you’re going to generate pressure up the middle as identity, you’re going to play a lot of contain and edge setting.

Simple example, the linebacker playing to Williams’s side is going to be playing contain a lot, because Williams is not. He’s a pass rusher, a really good one.

You're simultaneously preaching to the choir (I think most NYG fans either understand this or at a minimum have faith in Graham as DC), and also trying to educate the OP who isn't here to be educated. Since joining the board, he has started more threads than he's commented on. That's a very telling stat, IMO.
Pass Rushing is now much more a Team Sport  
Rafflee : 7/13/2021 8:00 pm : link
They were about mid pack on Pressure in 2021, with some roster Bare Spots. I love the personnel they've added to the Defense. For everyone lamenting what they think they want and dont have, Dexter and Williams are absolutely terrific Defensive Linemen! They remain underappreciated. I expect a very active and aggressive defense that will beat up offenses in every way
Mobile QB's..."quick offenses"  
Rafflee : 7/13/2021 8:06 pm : link
adding a point here that even the Giants biggest defensive players are guys who can tackle solo along the line of Scrimmage. Williams and Dexter have unique lateral mobility and a bit of speed for their size. They're involved with keeping qb running in check as well.
RE: Here's an idea, and I'm just spitballing here...  
Brick72 : 7/13/2021 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15303956 Klaatu said:
Quote:
But how about you stop obsessing over the Giants pass-rush since we're still two weeks away from the start of training camp? You keep asking questions that are impossible to answer right now. We don't even know who's going to make the squad and who won't, or what plans Graham & Co. have for the ones that do. Sheesh. Give it a rest.

^^ This
The Giants Defense  
PaulN : 7/14/2021 10:09 am : link
Had 40 sacks last year, and this year they added pieces to the defense after playing a season with this group. Maybe looking at the group instead of the names may help. You believe this group will improve over last season? Do you believe they identified the weaknesses and have atempted to address them? I believe in this coaching staff, and feel they made good evaluations and addressed the weaknesses as best as they could in one off season. They had 40 sacks, yet they brought in 2 veterans, drafted 2 players, and have 2 injured players coming back who they have worked with. They also drafted a corner in round 3, moving up to pick him, who is also going to help, then think about all the players added by this staff last year who will be in this system for their second year who will improve. I think this defense has an exciting season ahead.
Your measurement is flawed  
PaulN : 7/14/2021 10:27 am : link
So you will be proven wrong if one of our edge guys gets 10+ sacks, so we can expect the same nonsense even if the Giants win 11 games, win their division, have an overall defense ranked 5th in total yards allowed and 6th in points allowed, had 46 sacks, but our top edge rusher in sacks had 6 1/2? Try focusing on the team and let the coaching staff concern themselves with the details.
D  
OC2.0 : 7/14/2021 4:29 pm : link
Don't waste any concerns on them. They'll be top 10 @least
OL is worth our concern & then some.
We won't know until Denver  
SGMen : 7/18/2021 7:35 am : link
We may get some insights in camp, especially if Ojulari takes over and surprises with his first step quickness to start.

The key will be mixing it up and creating mis-matches at times. I think we will be run blitzing Peppers, McKinney a lot to create pressure.
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