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ESPN Ranks Giants O-Line Dead Last in the NFL

JoeyBigBlue : 7/16/2021 9:10 pm
32. New York Giants
Projected PBWR: 52%

Projected offensive line: Andrew Thomas (56th), Shane Lemieux (69th), Nick Gates (34th), Will Hernandez (31st), Matt Peart (DNQ)

So much for general manager Dave Gettleman's grand plan for the offensive line. The rookie Thomas performed well according to our run blocking metric, but he was a liability as a pass protector -- though he did battle an ankle injury that required surgery after the season.

In what could be a make-or-break season for third-year quarterback Daniel Jones, Gettleman got him more receiving help, but Jones is going to be on the run behind this O-Line.

Discuss.
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RE: RE: The Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15307408 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15307384 SleepyOwl said:


Quote:


Do NOT have an oline problem. Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, Peart is one of the youngest and most talented units in the league. They are only going to get better as the year progresses.



They are young.

But remind me when they became one of the “most talented units in the league”.

Based on what?



Nothing. Although I do subscribe that some players on the unit have a logical chance to play better over 17 games.

I would think Thomas and Gates have settled in well at their spots and have displayed enough talents that a better, more consistent performance over 17 games is very achievable. I would imagine Lemieux will show better too but not convinced it will be much as his ceiling looks to be far lower.

Peart is the biggest risk and it’s not often OTs just come into the league and handle things smoothly...he will have plenty of bumps in the road and the overall offense will feel it. I am glad he got some snaps last year but I wish it had been a whole lot more. If Solder has to replace him, that is big trouble.

Fulton/Hernandez are basically jags. And while everyone hopes for more from #34 overall pick Hernandez, his trend line is not one to pin your hopes to for a better performance. The right side of that OL will likely be pretty inconsistent each week.

RE: RE: RE: ESPN..  
Scooter185 : 7/18/2021 9:42 am : link
In comment 15307288 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15307167 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 15306787 FatMan in Charlotte said:


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would suck at investing tactics since they seemingly believe that past performance is indeed indicative of future performance



Then why do baseball teams intentionally walk the batter in front of the pitcher? Who do NBA teams intentionally foul the worst free throw shooter? Past performance absolutely is an indicator of future performance in sports. You can argue that 1 season isn't a big enough data set, but to handwave away bad prior seasons as meaningless is asinine.




I would argue that expecting no players to progress is asinine.

But hey - examples that don't pertain from other sports I'm sure are cool to discuss in some scenario - not this one of course.

what the fuck does an intentional walk have to do with predicting that players won't progress from year to year? If you walk a player to get to some guy this year - do you do the same thing next year without any idea if the player has progressed?


i never said i didn't expect progress, but that's hard to quantify before the fact. All ESPN or any of us has to make predictions for 21 is previous years data points.

as far as the intentional walk, as long as pitchers continue to bat in the NL, the batter in front of them will get walked in certain situations. 100% I can guarantee that. There's a big enough data set to know they're not getting better at the plate
A national media outlet  
Chris L. : 7/18/2021 9:47 am : link
sh_tting on the Giants...what a surprise...yawn (emphasis added).
 
christian : 7/18/2021 9:57 am : link
The Giants had arguably the worst passing blocking line in the NFL last year, including at the end of the year.

They added no significant talent and a first time NFL coach to lead the group.

The Giants are counting on the simultaneous development of three picks from one draft, and that a career disappointing guard has a renaissance.

If the Giants develop a good pass blocking unit, it’ll be pretty miraculous, and Sale and Garret should get tons of praise. But it’s a long shot.
RE: Kansas City with 4 new starters  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 10:09 am : link
In comment 15306732 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Ranked 6th… fucking hilarious.


What’s hilarious is all the people on here who are just wishing, and hoping that this O line will just get better, because they will have one more year of experience, and this is such a great coaching staff that they will coach them to get better. Wrong, Wrong, and Wrong again. This HUMPTY Dumpty line sucks, and all the wishing, and hoping is not going to make them any better. KC’s front office, and coaching staff was smart enough unlike the Giant’s front office, and coaching staff to seethe need to make their O line better, and they did, and the team will be better for it unlike the Giants, which did nothing, and will pay the price for it. If anything ESPN rated the Giants O line to high, because that is how bad they suck.
Doomed, I tell you, doomed!! ;-)  
Marty in Albany : 7/18/2021 10:36 am : link
;-)
One thing is for sure,  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/18/2021 11:05 am : link
no matter which side of the fence you are sitting on, the Giants Oline is going to be tested early by some very good defenses. It's not that the first five in a row are killers like last year, but the Broncos and Washington in games 1 and 2. Then the Falcons, who are more of an unknown; but then the Saints in game 4 should also test them. The Cowboys have a new Defensive Coordinator in Dan Quinn. Then they face the Rams and Aaron Donald in game 6. Then they face the Panthers. The Chiefs defense is up in game eight.

Washington, the Saints and the Rams were top 5 defenses in scoring last year. The Broncos, Rams and Chiefs also have some horses on defense. So 6 of the first 8 are going to test them, and we shall see what kind of oline they have become early on.
RE: One thing is for sure,  
Big Blue '56 : 7/18/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15307486 gidiefor said:
Quote:
no matter which side of the fence you are sitting on, the Giants Oline is going to be tested early by some very good defenses. It's not that the first five in a row are killers like last year, but the Broncos and Washington in games 1 and 2. Then the Falcons, who are more of an unknown; but then the Saints in game 4 should also test them. The Cowboys have a new Defensive Coordinator in Dan Quinn. Then they face the Rams and Aaron Donald in game 6. Then they face the Panthers. The Chiefs defense is up in game eight.

Washington, the Saints and the Rams were top 5 defenses in scoring last year. The Broncos, Rams and Chiefs also have some horses on defense. So 6 of the first 8 are going to test them, and we shall see what kind of oline they have become early on.


Perhaps, but with a very improved Receiving corps (and SB out of the backfield), the OL should benefit from the fact that DJ won’t have to wait 30 seconds for someone to get separation, imv
RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
bw in dc : 7/18/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15307423 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15307408 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15307384 SleepyOwl said:


Quote:


Do NOT have an oline problem. Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, Peart is one of the youngest and most talented units in the league. They are only going to get better as the year progresses.



They are young.

But remind me when they became one of the “most talented units in the league”.

Based on what?



Just the fact that you think they aren’t is probably proof enough.


By every statistical measure you want to reference, plus the eye test if you are anti-metrics, this OL is not even close to being the "most talented" OL in the league. Right now it's a stretch to even call them average.

Obviously everyone hopes they improve and they become competent and dependable game to game.

But THE biggest gamble this offseason by Gettleman/Judge was sticking with the same OL personnel and not using the market for upgrades. Especially entering this crucial third year for Jones.
The Giants prioritized ol in last year's draft. This past off season,  
Ira : 7/18/2021 12:13 pm : link
they prioritized wr, corner and edge. I think they want another long, hard look at the young ol and see which positions still need to be improved. We have a number of premium picks next year to use should it be necessary.
RE: …  
BrettNYG10 : 7/18/2021 12:14 pm : link
In comment 15307435 christian said:
Quote:
The Giants had arguably the worst passing blocking line in the NFL last year, including at the end of the year.

They added no significant talent and a first time NFL coach to lead the group.

The Giants are counting on the simultaneous development of three picks from one draft, and that a career disappointing guard has a renaissance.

If the Giants develop a good pass blocking unit, it’ll be pretty miraculous, and Sale and Garret should get tons of praise. But it’s a long shot.


The Giants arguably got worse along the OL with the loss of Zeitler. Gates is the only one whose put together a full season of at least average starter play (and maybe Hernandez in his rookie season).

I'm most bullish on Thomas - showed improvement throughout the year, was a high draft pick, etc. Hernandez has really struggled the past two years IMO. Base case is that Lemieux (a 5th rounder) and Peart (a 3rd rounder) don't become long-term starters. I also think the depth sucks - I think betting on Solder as the swing tackle will be disastrous.

We're really hoping for a lot here to build a cohesive unit. I'm genuinely not trying to be negative here - there are plenty of positive surprises in the NFL - but we are definitely wishing and hoping on this OL.
yawn  
Victor in CT : 7/18/2021 12:19 pm : link
next up: Dak Prescott best DAL QB since Staubach.
 
christian : 7/18/2021 12:28 pm : link
I agree Brett, Thomas is a high talent player and I believe it’s very safe to assume he will develop into a good NFL left tackle.

I’m very impressed by Gates, but I think some on BBI go a little overboard with him. I think he showed to be a solid, middle of the pack center last year. That’s a damn good accomplishment for an undrafted guy at a new position.

I think you can pencil those two in as strong, no worries at all, players.

The other three positions are a crap shoot. Lemieux was liability in pass protection, Hernandez was a liability in both phases, and Peart hardly played.

I just keep coming back to the idea — with a first year NFL coach — what are the chances three guys take a big step forward?

The Giants line was abysmal the last 3 out of 4 games in 2020. To be a playoff type team they need to be much, much better. I won’t be shocked if they aren’t.
RE: RE: …  
bw in dc : 7/18/2021 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15307521 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:


The Giants arguably got worse along the OL with the loss of Zeitler. Gates is the only one whose put together a full season of at least average starter play (and maybe Hernandez in his rookie season).

I'm most bullish on Thomas - showed improvement throughout the year, was a high draft pick, etc. Hernandez has really struggled the past two years IMO. Base case is that Lemieux (a 5th rounder) and Peart (a 3rd rounder) don't become long-term starters. I also think the depth sucks - I think betting on Solder as the swing tackle will be disastrous.

We're really hoping for a lot here to build a cohesive unit. I'm genuinely not trying to be negative here - there are plenty of positive surprises in the NFL - but we are definitely wishing and hoping on this OL.


Well said. There is certainly a lot of wishing and hoping on this.

Like I wrote earlier, it's an incredible gamble going with the same OL personnel with this being such a crucial stage for Jones.

RE: …  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15307528 christian said:
Quote:
I agree Brett, Thomas is a high talent player and I believe it’s very safe to assume he will develop into a good NFL left tackle.

I’m very impressed by Gates, but I think some on BBI go a little overboard with him. I think he showed to be a solid, middle of the pack center last year. That’s a damn good accomplishment for an undrafted guy at a new position.

I think you can pencil those two in as strong, no worries at all, players.

The other three positions are a crap shoot. Lemieux was liability in pass protection, Hernandez was a liability in both phases, and Peart hardly played.

I just keep coming back to the idea — with a first year NFL coach — what are the chances three guys take a big step forward?

The Giants line was abysmal the last 3 out of 4 games in 2020. To be a playoff type team they need to be much, much better. I won’t be shocked if they aren’t.


HUMPTY Dumpty cause Stone Cold says so not to mention their record their last 4 years. They SUCK.
RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
bw in dc : 7/18/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15307430 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Nothing. Although I do subscribe that some players on the unit have a logical chance to play better over 17 games.

I would think Thomas and Gates have settled in well at their spots and have displayed enough talents that a better, more consistent performance over 17 games is very achievable. I would imagine Lemieux will show better too but not convinced it will be much as his ceiling looks to be far lower.

Peart is the biggest risk and it’s not often OTs just come into the league and handle things smoothly...he will have plenty of bumps in the road and the overall offense will feel it. I am glad he got some snaps last year but I wish it had been a whole lot more. If Solder has to replace him, that is big trouble.

Fulton/Hernandez are basically jags. And while everyone hopes for more from #34 overall pick Hernandez, his trend line is not one to pin your hopes to for a better performance. The right side of that OL will likely be pretty inconsistent each week.


Thomas has to be very good to great. Otherwise, it's a horrible selection. But I think there is enough evidence to feel better about his play.

Gates was the offensive MVP last year, IMV. The question is simple with him - was last year a one hit wonder or was it a sign of things to come.

As for everyone else on the OL, I have zero confidence in any of them right now. Especially the Gs. It's like Gettleman/Judge are hoping to win the hand on the last two flops...
I am in same directional agreement on topics although  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2021 12:48 pm : link
don’t reach level of degree that you do with comments.

To borrow from a previous commonly used word on here, the fact the NYG didn’t do more this offseason with the interior OL personnel is a bit ponderous...
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15307534 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15307430 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



Nothing. Although I do subscribe that some players on the unit have a logical chance to play better over 17 games.

I would think Thomas and Gates have settled in well at their spots and have displayed enough talents that a better, more consistent performance over 17 games is very achievable. I would imagine Lemieux will show better too but not convinced it will be much as his ceiling looks to be far lower.

Peart is the biggest risk and it’s not often OTs just come into the league and handle things smoothly...he will have plenty of bumps in the road and the overall offense will feel it. I am glad he got some snaps last year but I wish it had been a whole lot more. If Solder has to replace him, that is big trouble.

Fulton/Hernandez are basically jags. And while everyone hopes for more from #34 overall pick Hernandez, his trend line is not one to pin your hopes to for a better performance. The right side of that OL will likely be pretty inconsistent each week.




Thomas has to be very good to great. Otherwise, it's a horrible selection. But I think there is enough evidence to feel better about his play.

Gates was the offensive MVP last year, IMV. The question is simple with him - was last year a one hit wonder or was it a sign of things to come.

As for everyone else on the OL, I have zero confidence in any of them right now. Especially the Gs. It's like Gettleman/Judge are hoping to win the hand on the last two flops...


KC proved in the last SB even with all their offensive weapons, which the Giants don’t have if you don’t have a decent O line your offense will suck. The Giants have done nothing to improve the line that sucked last year, so hopefully all the money they spent this past off season won’t be for nothing. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
BillT : 7/18/2021 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15307538 Old Blue said:
Quote:
. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.

This is a total load of crap. They spent significant resources last year to add talent to the OL. The line they put out last year was 4/5th rookies or first year starters. Having confidence in that group to progress is perfectly reasonable given the talent they acquired. I don’t know how this all works out and neither do you. But it is not bad judgement or bad coaching.
Old Blue  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/18/2021 1:15 pm : link
KC is a different scenario. They had the weapons and speed and then had significant injuries on the OL.

The Giants did not have great weapons (and one was injured in game 2).

People often talk about getting the QB weapons or a running game. Well weapons have a huge impact on the OL. Gilbride talked about this as did Jim Johnson (Eagles DC) regarding Plax. They added Galladay and don't be surprised if Toney takes some of the underneath stuff to the EZ.

Game one last year Giants rushed for 20 yards (Bark; 15 att/6 yds). Tomlin clearly took SB away and what did the Giants have? So if teams employ that strategy the hope is you have Galladay/Toney make defenses pay. That will open the running game.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 1:36 pm : link
In comment 15307551 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15307538 Old Blue said:


Quote:


. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.


This is a total load of crap. They spent significant resources last year to add talent to the OL. The line they put out last year was 4/5th rookies or first year starters. Having confidence in that group to progress is perfectly reasonable given the talent they acquired. I don’t know how this all works out and neither do you. But it is not bad judgement or bad coaching.


They added players to the O line last year, but they didn’t add talent, and I don’t care if they are all rookies, or 10 year veterans the bottom line is they suck, and if you think it is not bad judgement to fix again then you must want another losing team for how many years in a row now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/18/2021 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15307567 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15307551 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15307538 Old Blue said:


Quote:


. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.


This is a total load of crap. They spent significant resources last year to add talent to the OL. The line they put out last year was 4/5th rookies or first year starters. Having confidence in that group to progress is perfectly reasonable given the talent they acquired. I don’t know how this all works out and neither do you. But it is not bad judgement or bad coaching.



They added players to the O line last year, but they didn’t add talent, and I don’t care if they are all rookies, or 10 year veterans the bottom line is they suck, and if you think it is not bad judgement to fix again then you must want another losing team for how many years in a row now.


Really insightful and piercing analysis here that differs with just about every NFL talent evaluator with even a modicum of knowledge. You must be a joy at cocktail time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15307587 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 15307567 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15307551 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15307538 Old Blue said:


Quote:


. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.


This is a total load of crap. They spent significant resources last year to add talent to the OL. The line they put out last year was 4/5th rookies or first year starters. Having confidence in that group to progress is perfectly reasonable given the talent they acquired. I don’t know how this all works out and neither do you. But it is not bad judgement or bad coaching.



They added players to the O line last year, but they didn’t add talent, and I don’t care if they are all rookies, or 10 year veterans the bottom line is they suck, and if you think it is not bad judgement to fix again then you must want another losing team for how many years in a row now.



Really insightful and piercing analysis here that differs with just about every NFL talent evaluator with even a modicum of knowledge. You must be a joy at cocktail time.


The teams record, and the O lines play speak for themselves, and that is why ESPN rated them to high.
NFC East Division finish in 2020 predetermining 2021 predictions?  
royhobbs7 : 7/18/2021 2:34 pm : link
WTF finished first in the division in 2020 and are considered to be front-runners for the division crown in 2021. No doubt that they have the best divisional defense among the other three (Giants might be a close 2nd - much better potential talent in secondary).

My question is: Had Barkley and Prescott been healthy last year, who would have won the NFL Least? Given that it wouldn't have been the Redskins as they won the division by the slightest margin, would either the Cowboys or Giants be considered the predominant division favorites for 2021 had either won the divisional crown last year?

IMHO, (and yes, the health of the aforementioned is a big "IF" for 2021 and who can predict further injuries), the division is a toss-up between the 3 aforementioned teams with the Eagles winding up a distant 4th.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants  
BillT : 7/18/2021 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15307567 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15307551 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15307538 Old Blue said:


Quote:


. Not trying to fix the O line is just bad judgement, and bad coaching, and that is on DG, and Judge.


This is a total load of crap. They spent significant resources last year to add talent to the OL. The line they put out last year was 4/5th rookies or first year starters. Having confidence in that group to progress is perfectly reasonable given the talent they acquired. I don’t know how this all works out and neither do you. But it is not bad judgement or bad coaching.



They added players to the O line last year, but they didn’t add talent, and I don’t care if they are all rookies, or 10 year veterans the bottom line is they suck, and if you think it is not bad judgement to fix again then you must want another losing team for how many years in a row now.

“I don’t care if they are all rookies, or 10 year veterans the bottom line is they suck,”

Or in other words this is a total load of crap. You know jack shit about their talent and obviously don’t care. This is just pathetic tough guy talk. Get a life.
ESPN???? Like they predicted WTF to win the division last year?  
royhobbs7 : 7/18/2021 2:56 pm : link
They profess to believe that the Giants O-Line is quite porous and inefficient. Well, I got news for the so-called experts: WTF's O-Line is porous as well. Br Scherff is no-doubt a stud. But the rest of the Redskins O-Line (they have questions at both OT positions and our old friend Erick Flowers is their LG). And that is a line that is going to make holes for Gibson and protect Fitzmagic? I'll take our line over theirs, any day!!!!! Call me a homer, but you'll see.

And if Dallas' O-Line suffers similar injuries as last year, they will also have difficulty keeping Dak from running for his life. Yes, Z Martin is a top 3 OG in the NFL and Ty Smith is a top OT when healthy. He claims to feel as well as he has in years, but he's missed 26 games over the past 5 years due to neck surgery). The other members of their O-Line (La'el Collins, Ty Biadasz & Cn Williams are average at best if they can sustain their health this year).

The Eagles O-Line is probably the best in the division but they have also suffered significant injuries last year (Dillard, Br Brooks & Ln Johnson).

Our young line will make mistakes this year, no doubt. But the upside is greater than all of the other O-Lines in the NFC East (no longer the NFC Least!).
Let's make a comparison  
royhobbs7 : 7/18/2021 3:04 pm : link
Although he has shown improvement in being much more efficient @ OG than OT who would you rather have at OLG,
Erick Flowers or Shane Lemieux?
RE: Let's make a comparison  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15307613 royhobbs7 said:
Quote:
Although he has shown improvement in being much more efficient @ OG than OT who would you rather have at OLG,
Erick Flowers or Shane Lemieux?


It is so bad we are getting down to this? How about neither one. They both SUCK.
RE: RE: Let's make a comparison  
BillT : 7/18/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15307614 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15307613 royhobbs7 said:


Quote:


Although he has shown improvement in being much more efficient @ OG than OT who would you rather have at OLG,
Erick Flowers or Shane Lemieux?



It is so bad we are getting down to this? How about neither one. They both SUCK.

They don’t suck as much as you do.
RE: RE: RE: Let's make a comparison  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15307622 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15307614 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15307613 royhobbs7 said:


Quote:


Although he has shown improvement in being much more efficient @ OG than OT who would you rather have at OLG,
Erick Flowers or Shane Lemieux?



It is so bad we are getting down to this? How about neither one. They both SUCK.


They don’t suck as much as you do.


Love the kind words, but doesn’t change the outcome.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Let's make a comparison  
BillT : 7/18/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15307626 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15307622 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15307614 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15307613 royhobbs7 said:


Quote:


Although he has shown improvement in being much more efficient @ OG than OT who would you rather have at OLG,
Erick Flowers or Shane Lemieux?



It is so bad we are getting down to this? How about neither one. They both SUCK.


They don’t suck as much as you do.



Love the kind words, but doesn’t change the outcome.

Ooooo….Tough guy has spoken. So impressed.
Nate Solder is slated to be a backup to start the season  
GeofromNJ : 7/18/2021 4:36 pm : link
Yet word is that Solder is healthy compared to 2019 and in a better frame of mind regarding his son, so one would think his play would be much improved. If Solder's play is superior to 2019 and Solder is only a backup, maybe we Giants fans have reason to be somewhat optimistic regarding the starting five. And for this reason, I am optimistic.
RE: Nate Solder is slated to be a backup to start the season  
Jimmy Googs : 7/18/2021 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15307651 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
Yet word is that Solder is healthy compared to 2019 and in a better frame of mind regarding his son, so one would think his play would be much improved. If Solder's play is superior to 2019 and Solder is only a backup, maybe we Giants fans have reason to be somewhat optimistic regarding the starting five. And for this reason, I am optimistic.


Of all the reasons fans can conjure up in being optimistic about the Offensive Line this season, this shouldn't be one of them...
RE: RE: Nate Solder is slated to be a backup to start the season  
Old Blue : 7/18/2021 5:53 pm : link
In comment 15307677 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15307651 GeofromNJ said:


Quote:


Yet word is that Solder is healthy compared to 2019 and in a better frame of mind regarding his son, so one would think his play would be much improved. If Solder's play is superior to 2019 and Solder is only a backup, maybe we Giants fans have reason to be somewhat optimistic regarding the starting five. And for this reason, I am optimistic.



Of all the reasons fans can conjure up in being optimistic about the Offensive Line this season, this shouldn't be one of them...


That’s the sad part about this O line is that Solder may be better than some of the so called starters.
32nd?  
Gman11 : 7/18/2021 7:49 pm : link
Good news! They can't get worse!

I'm sure people remember the Mets' jingle in the '60s that ended with "We've got no place to go, but up."
Considering the methodology, last place was the only possible result.  
Big Blue Blogger : 7/19/2021 4:44 am : link
Quote:
To achieve this we used a regression model that considers every projected starter's individual pass block win rate over the past two seasons. Players who did not play in either or both seasons (including rookies) were assigned a below-average PBWR for their position, and anyone who failed to meet the qualifying threshold had their win rate regressed toward that below-average target. (Bold italics added)

The only 2020 Giant lineman who might have achieved even a mediocre score by that method was Zeitler, who is gone.

The sole holdover who was an NFL starter in 2019 is Hernandez. He started only seven games last year, was on the field for just 52% of the Giants' offensive snaps, and probably played his best ball in 2018.

Gates saw substantial snaps in four games in 2019, and didn't move to center until 2020. The other three starters were in college in 2019. All three struggled with pass protection for much of their rookie seasons. Peart played just 15% of the offensive snaps. Lemieux played 50%, and was mostly awful in the passing game. Thomas improved markedly as the season progressed, but the scoring method wouldn't reflect that upward trend.

The method may be good or bad. My point is just that there's no way the Giants' pass protection could look anything but dreadful when viewed through that particular, retrospective lens.
.  
Gruber : 7/19/2021 8:34 am : link
In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.
RE: .  
Victor in CT : 7/19/2021 1:43 pm : link
In comment 15307881 Gruber said:
Quote:
In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.


This is a good point, but I would also consider this: Nothing is in a vacuum. The additions of Galloway, Toney, Ross, Rudolf should have a positive impact on the OL in that defenses should not be able to stack the box and ignore outside and deep routes anymore, meaning fewer bodies available at the LOS. Rudolf also will have to be accounted for in the middle of the field. This should help the OL.
RE: .  
bLiTz 2k : 7/19/2021 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15307881 Gruber said:
Quote:
In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.


It was the first 5 quarters of football for the unit before Barkley went down....against the Steelers and a tough Bears front. If Barkley was healthy the entire season there's a lot of those Freeman, Gallman runs that go for 6.
RE: RE: .  
giantstock : 7/20/2021 2:35 am : link
In comment 15308402 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:
In comment 15307881 Gruber said:


Quote:


In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.



It was the first 5 quarters of football for the unit before Barkley went down....against the Steelers and a tough Bears front. If Barkley was healthy the entire season there's a lot of those Freeman, Gallman runs that go for 6.


Don't you think that in-game preparation that the defense didn't give a shit about Gallman?

Secondly, at the end of the season overall the Giants played some downright rotten football teams. Is that what you are counting on this year?
RE: RE: RE: .  
bLiTz 2k : 7/20/2021 7:16 am : link
In comment 15308463 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15308402 bLiTz 2k said:


Quote:


In comment 15307881 Gruber said:


Quote:


In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.



It was the first 5 quarters of football for the unit before Barkley went down....against the Steelers and a tough Bears front. If Barkley was healthy the entire season there's a lot of those Freeman, Gallman runs that go for 6.



Don't you think that in-game preparation that the defense didn't give a shit about Gallman?

Secondly, at the end of the season overall the Giants played some downright rotten football teams. Is that what you are counting on this year?


No quite the opposite...the Giants saw more single high man blitz coverages than any team in the league last year.

Instead of relying on hyperbole, look at the analytics. Teams didn't respect the deep/intermediate pass whatsoever and faced nothing but stacked fronts on a consistent basis.

And to your point about rotten football teams...

You think Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Baltimore have rotten front 7s? No offense, but where do you guys come up with this stuff?
ESPN...  
DannyDimes : 7/20/2021 7:44 am : link
ESPN and the other outlets regurgitate the same garbage for every team. Let's be honest, they don't know any team to the depths of that team's serious fanbase. So all of the media cherry-picks the easy stuff. They all do it.

RE: RE: RE: .  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 8:27 am : link
In comment 15308463 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15308402 bLiTz 2k said:


Quote:


In comment 15307881 Gruber said:


Quote:


In the games leading up to his injury, Barkley was getting next to nowhere because of the weakness of the OL. I know they've improved and they're young, and I have great faith in Joe Judge, but that OL needs to be more than middling, it needs to be good to make Saquon into a legitimate threat. A potent offensive line making holes for Barkley to exploit changes everything. It really does.



It was the first 5 quarters of football for the unit before Barkley went down....against the Steelers and a tough Bears front. If Barkley was healthy the entire season there's a lot of those Freeman, Gallman runs that go for 6.



Don't you think that in-game preparation that the defense didn't give a shit about Gallman?

Secondly, at the end of the season overall the Giants played some downright rotten football teams. Is that what you are counting on this year?


Who were the rotten football teams the Giants played at the end of last season? Their last 5 games were Seattle, Arizona, Cleveland, Baltimore and Dallas.

Arguably, Dallas was the worst team and 3 of them made the playoffs.

Are we back to the old tactic of making up shit to try and bolster a weak argument?
Worst or not  
jeff57 : 7/20/2021 8:44 am : link
Going into the season it's certainly near the bottom.
RE: Worst or not  
Jimmy Googs : 7/20/2021 9:43 am : link
In comment 15308489 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Going into the season it's certainly near the bottom.


The rare valid point on a BBI thread...
Valid ...because??  
Grizz99 : 7/22/2021 9:29 am : link
Because it echoes your need to denigrate The Giants and ignore something special that's happening.
Go...  
Brown_Hornet : 7/22/2021 9:54 am : link
...Giants!
doubters - ( New Window )
It's not to denigrate the Giants  
Jimmy Googs : 7/22/2021 9:54 am : link
it's for someone like yourself...
RE: Considering the methodology, last place was the only possible result.  
gidiefor : Mod : 7/22/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15307844 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:


Quote:


To achieve this we used a regression model that considers every projected starter's individual pass block win rate over the past two seasons. Players who did not play in either or both seasons (including rookies) were assigned a below-average PBWR for their position, and anyone who failed to meet the qualifying threshold had their win rate regressed toward that below-average target. (Bold italics added)


The only 2020 Giant lineman who might have achieved even a mediocre score by that method was Zeitler, who is gone.

The sole holdover who was an NFL starter in 2019 is Hernandez. He started only seven games last year, was on the field for just 52% of the Giants' offensive snaps, and probably played his best ball in 2018.

Gates saw substantial snaps in four games in 2019, and didn't move to center until 2020. The other three starters were in college in 2019. All three struggled with pass protection for much of their rookie seasons. Peart played just 15% of the offensive snaps. Lemieux played 50%, and was mostly awful in the passing game. Thomas improved markedly as the season progressed, but the scoring method wouldn't reflect that upward trend.

The method may be good or bad. My point is just that there's no way the Giants' pass protection could look anything but dreadful when viewed through that particular, retrospective lens.


Blogs -- good point
RE: Go...  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/27/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15310057 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...Giants! doubters - ( New Window )


Bumping the OP for you.

Link - ( New Window )
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