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NFT: Knicks chat - backcourt options

robbieballs2003 : 7/18/2021 11:44 am
The draft is 11 days away. I have started looking T some of the prospects. I'll start off with 3 of them and then look at a couple of options via trade and FA. I'm not going deep into this so feel free to add your opinions on any additional options as there seem to be many.

The Knicks seem to be one of the most intriguing teams in the NBA this offseason. No, they don't have a top pick in this year's draft but with picks 19 and 21 the Knicks seem to want to move at least one of these picks to either move up in the draft or trade for a player.

The obvious place to start is Damian Lillard. I think we can all agree that just getting him on this team makes us better. However, that is never the question. This topic has been discussed already but the point is what will it take and according to rumors it would be a ton. Personally, I don't think the Knicks are in a position to throw too many eggs into one basket. Having Randle and Damian Lillard as your top two players and not much else doesn't look like a championship caliber team. I have said this before and will repeat it, players are available every year and the timing has to be right to make the move. The timing is not right to make a huge move just like it wasn't right last year to go after Beal. I talk about NBA purgatory all the time. I think it is the worst place to be. The Knicks are getting closer to being able to make a huge move but they aren't there yet.

Sexton? What will it take? What are we comfortable with trading for him? This is a much more likely situation to come to fruition than Lillard. I have no idea what Cleveland would accept. Hitdog, if it was him, is emphatic that Cleveland isn't trading him. If so then this point is moot. However, from reading about this situation, Cleveland does not want to pay his price tag and would have gotten more if they traded him last year. Supposedly NBA execs are aware of his contract demands and don't want to give up a lot to take on that type of contract. This severely limits his market. I also read that an NBA exec, I think, stated that teams with a lottery pick wouldn't offer the pick for Sexton. They'd rather get a player on a cheaper contract. With that known, I think I draw the line in the sand at 19, Knox, and another smaller piece. If Cleveland says no then no problem. We move on to another option. I don't want to argue about the details of the trade. Maybe Cleveland laughs at us but every moment that passes increases the likelihood that Cleveland doesn't get a good return for him similar to what happened with Lonzo Ball this year. NO waited way too long and couldn't work out a trade and now it looks as if they'll lose him for nothing. No wonder Zion seems to want to move on when his contract is up.

Lets talk about Ball. If the Knicks like his game I think he'd be a nice asset on this team. It comes down to what contract he's looking for and how that fits in with our ling term plans. He is definitely a player we should look into.

Someone brought up Duncan Robinson the other day. I think he makes a lot of sense for this team as well. Timing and the value 9f the contract will determine if we will be players. He has versatility to play the 2 or 3 and he gives this team some much needed shooting.

Let's talk about the draft. The first guy I think should be talked about is Davion Mitchell. From what I read he is great defensively and limited offensively. I started watching clips and, while that doesn't tell the whole story, I was expecting someone way worse than he showed. I like his offensive game. He doesn't look explosive but looks very smooth and heady. He takes what the defense gives. He isn't going to be able to drive at will to the basket but if there is a crease them he'll take it. If the defender gives him space he can hit the 3. He always seems to know where his teammates are. The question really becomes, is he worth trading 19 and 21 for him because that is what it looks like it would take.

I haven't seen Springer's name brought up much at all. I like him. My knowledge is very limited but from what I have watched he is like a bully with the ball. I like that. It reminds me of the good part of Marbury where he was able to attack the rim at well. This team needs players that can break down a defense. He needs to get better as a passer and trusting his teammates more but he is no slouch in that area either. He needs to imrpove his outside shot for the NBA imo. The positive is he is only 18 years old. I love the upside whereas someone like Mitchell is 22 and soon to be 23, if I remember correctly.

I know there are way more prospects to look at in terms of the PG position but I'll leave that to others who know more than me.

I hate Berman but he had and article on SG Duarte yesterday so I checked him out. I think Thibs probably loves this kid. He has length, he plays defense, and he can hit long range shots. The negative? I think he's 24 years old. He has a unique story but he supposedly still has upside to his game.

Where does this leave the Knicks? The weird thing about the NBA is that the draft occurs before FA and the NBA, more than any other sport imo, focuses on need in the draft. The Knicks have more back channels than we do but I would be shocked if we didn't come out of this draft with a PG/combo guard. We can't assume we can get a FA PG nor trade for one until the trade is actually executed.

I will lay out one situation: let's assume Cleveland accepts our offer of pick 19, Knox, and say pick 32 for Sexton. If we did that I can see the Knicks drafting Duarte at 21 because he is ready to play now. How would you feel about a backcourt of:

Sexton
Rose
Quickley
Duarte
Luca
Burks (assuming he is resigned)

As much as I love the upside of Springer, I don't think Thibs wants to take on players that young to have them develop. I think that is one reason that Mitchell seems to be coveted.

With that said, I lied. I'll give you a second scenario. Let's assume we trade picks 19 and 21 for Mitchell. How would you feel about a backcourt of:

Mitchell
Rose
Quickley
Duncan
Luca
Burks (assume he is retained)

Which one do you like better? Do you have a better outcome?
I'm looking forward to seeing Knox get cut loose whatever happens  
jnoble : 7/18/2021 12:20 pm : link
He's a waste of roster space
I think Knicks would be better off signing one of the free agent PGs  
Vanzetti : 7/18/2021 12:54 pm : link
DL does have more of a chance coming here than Lebrun,!Durant, Kyrie etc. But more likely he is going to LA or some other established contender .

CP3, Lowry and Conley. Land one of those three and this is a legit 50 win team
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/18/2021 1:06 pm : link
I'm getting excited about the potential of adding Sexton to this team. I was watching highlights of him & the other night & he can flat out ball. He's a pup too...gotta be no older than 23 or 24.
Going to be a lot of rumors coming  
nygiants16 : 7/18/2021 1:14 pm : link
in the next 2 weeks involving the Knicks with the draft a week and a half away and free agency 3 days later..

I expect the Knicks to be very active
I'd  
Jon in NYC : 7/18/2021 1:16 pm : link
be fine with both Davian Mitchell and Sexton, but it is worth noting that they're the same age.
RE: I'd  
robbieballs2003 : 7/18/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15307556 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
be fine with both Davian Mitchell and Sexton, but it is worth noting that they're the same age.


Not sure how we would get both as Mitchell seems to require both 19 and 21.
RE: RE: I'd  
Jon in NYC : 7/18/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15307559 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15307556 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


be fine with both Davian Mitchell and Sexton, but it is worth noting that they're the same age.



Not sure how we would get both as Mitchell seems to require both 19 and 21.


Sorry I meant or. I like both players. If they could get either that'd be great.

Mitchell is the better defender but Sexton the better scorer and more proven.
I like Spencer Dinwiddie  
aimrocky : 7/18/2021 1:26 pm : link
As a backcourt option.
Great  
AcidTest : 7/18/2021 3:14 pm : link
post.

Acquiring a good PG is the highest off season priority for the Knicks.

Hitdog says the Cavaliers won't trade Sexton. Even if they did, they'd likely want Obi. I'm OK with Obi, Knox, 19, or 21, or Knox, 19, and 21. (In another thread I said Obi, Knox, and 19/21, and I think some people understandably thought I meant both draft picks.) I understand why people don't want to trade Obi.

Somebody is going to pay Sexton.

The only other options are either trading up or taking the best PG available at 19 or 21. I'd prefer the latter.

19: PG.
21. Trey Murphy III.
32. C (rim protector).
58. BPA or traded.
Acid  
robbieballs2003 : 7/18/2021 3:23 pm : link
Trey Murphy seems t9 be going closer to 32 than 21 so I have 2 questions.

1. What do you like about him?

2. Would you take the Kentucky kid at 21 who might become a Mitchell Robinson with a mid range jumper and then try to get Murphy at 32 or potentially trade up from 32 to get Murphy?
Robbie B  
Chris L. : 7/18/2021 5:26 pm : link
I am with you. The timing is not right to make a big trade for Lillard or any other top PG. The pieces and picks it would take would leave us looking at pergatory which this team has done many times. Also, there is no reason to make a crazy trade. For once the future favors us. We have an excellent young core of RJ, Mitch, Obi, Randle and IQ. Each of those plays (save Randle) should continue to make sizable jumps in improvement. No reason to sell a bunch of chips at low value. A year from now those chips might have a significantly higher value. Also, I think Madison Square Garden as a destination for other stars will only increase if we stand pat for now. I am however intrigued by a Sexton deal which does not involve any of the five players I mentioned above. Finally, I like the Butler kid as a draft PG prospect. We might be able to snag him at 19 and keep our picks. I would trade multiple picks to land a rookie point guard like Mitchell if Scott Perry likes what he sees.
I would love the first backcourt you suggested….  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2021 6:49 pm : link
Sexton
Rose
Quickley
Duarte
Luca
Burks

Excellent depth there to go along with a strong RJ/Randle/Mitch front court.
I’m shocked no ones talking about Jared Butler  
Earl the goat : 7/18/2021 7:36 pm : link
He’s just as good as mitchell defensively with a better offensive game
He was the best player in the Baylor run to the championship

I’d trade for Sexton. If it’s only Knox and a pick this year and next
I’m not so fast on giving up Obi
Also I’d find a way to sign Noel
Him and Mitch gives the Knicks a great 1-2 punch at the 5
With the other first round pick if we don’t trade for Sexton I’d definitely take Duarte

Mitch
Randle
RJ
Duarte
Sexton

Butler
Rose
IQ
Noel
Toppin
Burke

Bye to Frank and Bullock
RE: I’m shocked no ones talking about Jared Butler  
Earl the goat : 7/18/2021 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15307731 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
He’s just as good as mitchell defensively with a better offensive game
He was the best player in the Baylor run to the championship

I’d trade for Sexton. If it’s only Knox and a pick this year and next
I’m not so fast on giving up Obi
Also I’d find a way to sign Noel
Him and Mitch gives the Knicks a great 1-2 punch at the 5
With the other first round pick if we don’t trade for Sexton I’d definitely take Duarte

Mitch
Randle
RJ
Duarte
Sexton

Butler
Rose
IQ
Noel
Toppin
Burke

Bye to Frank and Bullock



Mistake. No butler if we get Sexton
It's  
AcidTest : 7/18/2021 7:43 pm : link
fine if the Knicks don't want to trade for Sexton, either because they're not interested, or can't agree on the compensation. But I think it would be a mistake to trade a lot of picks to move up to get a PG instead of selecting one at 19.

I admit I am a UVA alum, but I have read that Murphy is likely a first round pick. His best characteristic is his shooting. Murphy was the only 50/40/90 shooter in college basketball last year. He is also 6'9" with a 7 foot wingspan, has a high basketball IQ, and played for a defensive minded college coach. His weaknesses are that he's not super explosive or a great ball handler, and he also needs to get stronger.
I  
AcidTest : 7/18/2021 7:44 pm : link
don't know anything about the Kentucky kid.
RE: It's  
robbieballs2003 : 7/18/2021 7:47 pm : link
In comment 15307740 AcidTest said:
Quote:
fine if the Knicks don't want to trade for Sexton, either because they're not interested, or can't agree on the compensation. But I think it would be a mistake to trade a lot of picks to move up to get a PG instead of selecting one at 19.

I admit I am a UVA alum, but I have read that Murphy is likely a first round pick. His best characteristic is his shooting. Murphy was the only 50/40/90 shooter in college basketball last year. He is also 6'9" with a 7 foot wingspan, has a high basketball IQ, and played for a defensive minded college coach. His weaknesses are that he's not super explosive or a great ball handler, and he also needs to get stronger.


Thanks. However, I am not saying he will last to our second round pick. I am saying that he seems like a reach at 21 only because this seems like a solid draft. We have a million future seconds so if we could package some future seconds to 32 to move up to get a player like him that seems like a more likely scenario. With all of this said, this is just a general outlook based on projections I am seeing online and we know that they aren't 100% accurate.
I’d prefer Sexton to Dame  
Sean : 7/18/2021 7:48 pm : link
.
RE: I’d prefer Sexton to Dame  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/18/2021 8:07 pm : link
In comment 15307746 Sean said:
Quote:
.


Considering the age difference & trade assets...I agree. I've done a complete 180.
Yeah it’s not the ideal time for a Dame trade  
bceagle05 : 7/18/2021 8:49 pm : link
but they have to explore it. All things considered I’d prefer the Sexton route too.
Sexton is more long term build  
nygiants16 : 7/18/2021 9:00 pm : link
more patient build..

Lillard you better have the sidekick ready right away and the window is much smaller
Sexton is the best route  
Doubledeuce22 : 7/18/2021 9:00 pm : link
Especially if the trade is centered around Obi. Obi is expendable with Randle here and it’s clear as day that we need a legit PG here. Sexton is young and can flat out score. My only question is whether he can effectively run the point. He was moved to the 2 this past year where he excelled. If the Knicks advanced scouting thinks he can handle the point then it’s a no brainer. If not, take one of the kids and continue to build. Maybe add a Dinwiddie as well.
Teh Knciks shoudl NOT go after Lillard  
giantstock : 7/19/2021 12:38 am : link
Unless they have a 2nd stud option. Right now they don't. All Lillard is going to do is turn them into "Portland II." Maybe get KL then we're talking.

The Knicks need to target the younger studs that will eventually become pissed off with all the losing on their teams.

What the Knicks need to do is keep acquiring young talent and have enough cap space for two super-superstars.

The Knicks right now still have major weaknesses in terms of not being good upfront and they don't really have consistent outside shooting from anyone that is reliable. Lillard would only be 1 - thus they'd blitz him just like all the West teams do in the Playoffs to Portland.

------------
Instead of being the same-old -same-old and going after older players the Knicks best moves are when the stand still like what they did that past season. How many can recall the TALKING HEAD media stating how the Knicks "FAILED?"

*****It's called -- PATIENCE. Something that the Talking Head Media never understands.

The Knicks can't do what they have done in the past and only look a couple of inches beyond their toes. They need to keep big bucks available while accumulation youth and talent so they can wind up signing TWO YOUNG(er) superstars than at least younger than 31 without another superstar.

The Knicks shouldn't try to build a two year run. Instead they should be trying to build a 5 plus year run.



Let the guessing begin  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:00 am : link
Quote:
I asked five sources for a team in the first round most likely to move up, and they all said the Knicks. The Knicks have picks No. 19 and 21, along with two second-rounders and an extra top-ten protected pick in 2023 (from Dallas). Multiple sources said there’s a player in the low teens that they have targeted, but no one’s sure who it is. 7 hours ago – via Matt Moore @ Action Network
Also, since it is the low teens,  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:02 am : link
Hopefully we don't give up 19 and 21. Hopefully it is just 19 and 32.
There were  
Jon in NYC : 7/19/2021 9:03 am : link
some rumors that they were doing a deep dive into Sharife Cooper.

He's right in that 10-20 range, so if he's the guy they love that would add up.

I'd prefer a wing like Moody or Kispert.
RE: There were  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:05 am : link
In comment 15307899 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
some rumors that they were doing a deep dive into Sharife Cooper.

He's right in that 10-20 range, so if he's the guy they love that would add up.

I'd prefer a wing like Moody or Kispert.


He seems to be available at 20. Not sure they'd have to trade up for him but I am more confident with this group so if they deem it necessary to move up for a player they get the benefit of the doubt that it is the right thing to do.
I'd like to see the following  
NYG22 : 7/19/2021 9:05 am : link
Trade: Obi, Knox + 21 for Sexton

Resign Randle for 4 years, $25mm per (max this summer per CBA rule and a good contract for NYK).

Resign Bullock for 3 years, $7.5mm per.

Resign Rose for 1 years, $7.5mm per (and yes, I think he takes that deal).

Doug McDermott 2 years, $10mm per.

Jarred Vanderbilt 3 years, $3mm per (lengthy and springy lefty forward, tons of untapped potential that needs development, UK ties)

Rishaun Holmes 3 years, $8mm per (a guy that is flying under the radar; very good and versatile big who plays like a young Taj Gibson)

Wave goodbye to: Ntilikina, Burks, Noel, Pelle along w Knox.

______________________________________________

PG: Sexton, Rose, Vildoza

SG: Duarte at 19 (perfect fit), Bullock, IQ

SF: Barrett, Doug McDermott

PF: Randle, Jarred Vanderbilt

C: Mitch Robinson, Richaun Holmes, Taj Gibson, Jericho Sims at 32
Just looked at Cooper's numbers.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:10 am : link
Why would the Knicks trade up for a guy who can't shoot? He shot .391 from the field and .228 from 3. That's awful. I wouldn't trade up for him.
RE: Just looked at Cooper's numbers.  
Jon in NYC : 7/19/2021 9:11 am : link
In comment 15307903 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Why would the Knicks trade up for a guy who can't shoot? He shot .391 from the field and .228 from 3. That's awful. I wouldn't trade up for him.


Because he does everything else really really well. If he was 2 inches taller and even an average shooter he's a clear top 10 pick. Maybe higher.
So if all is perfect he's a top ten but it isn't  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:14 am : link
So trading up to 13/14 is justified? I don't buy it. This team needs a distributor badly but Thibs has made it abundantly clear we need more shooters so I'd be surprised if they traded up for him.
RE: RE: Just looked at Cooper's numbers.  
NYG22 : 7/19/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15307906 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15307903 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Why would the Knicks trade up for a guy who can't shoot? He shot .391 from the field and .228 from 3. That's awful. I wouldn't trade up for him.



Because he does everything else really really well. If he was 2 inches taller and even an average shooter he's a clear top 10 pick. Maybe higher.


Agreed. He's a brilliant player. The kind of offensive mind you rarely see (like Rajon Rondo). Averaged 20/8 and went to the line an amazing 8x per game. Also shot 82% from the line which bodes well for expectations of shooting improvement.
If they think  
Jon in NYC : 7/19/2021 9:19 am : link
he's a starting PG in this league then 13/14 pick is a steal.

He is the best pure PG in the draft, and his issues may be more fixable than most. ESPN also had him at 17 right now, so if the Knicks want to move up for him I'm fine with that.
Link - ( New Window )
Regarding Cooper, his free throw shooting was very good (82.5%),  
Ira : 7/19/2021 9:20 am : link
which indicates he may have the ability to improve his shooting from the field. I wouldn't try to move up too far for him. Maybe see what we can get by adding our 2nd round pick to our to pick 19. Moving up just a few spots should be enough.
RE: RE: RE: Just looked at Cooper's numbers.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:20 am : link
In comment 15307911 NYG22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15307906 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 15307903 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


Why would the Knicks trade up for a guy who can't shoot? He shot .391 from the field and .228 from 3. That's awful. I wouldn't trade up for him.



Because he does everything else really really well. If he was 2 inches taller and even an average shooter he's a clear top 10 pick. Maybe higher.



Agreed. He's a brilliant player. The kind of offensive mind you rarely see (like Rajon Rondo). Averaged 20/8 and went to the line an amazing 8x per game. Also shot 82% from the line which bodes well for expectations of shooting improvement.


I would love a true PG. I think Obi would benefit greatly. But those numbers are brutal. So many teams in the NBA always try to fix shots and it barely works. I think you have to assume his shot won't get better and feel comfortable of that is true that the rest of his game justifies the draft position. I am just skeptical they'll feel the need to trade up for him. From what I have seen he isn't going in the early teens in mocks. In one mock they have him going to the Knicks at 21.
Regarding Cooper, his free throw shooting was very good (82.5%),  
Ira : 7/19/2021 9:21 am : link
which indicates he may have the ability to improve his shooting from the field. I wouldn't try to move up too far for him. Maybe see what we can get by adding our 2nd round pick to our to pick 19. Moving up just a few spots should be enough.
He shot 47% on 2s  
Jon in NYC : 7/19/2021 9:21 am : link
and 82% at the line as NYG22 mentioned. His atrocious shooting percentage is because he took 5 3s per game at a .291 clip. Awful.

But he wouldn't be the first player how to figure out how to shoot after joining the NBA.

He just has upside that most of the guys in his range don't. I wont be upset if he's not the guy but he's a player to get excited about IMO. I trust this staff's evaluations.
RE: He shot 47% on 2s  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:25 am : link
In comment 15307919 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
and 82% at the line as NYG22 mentioned. His atrocious shooting percentage is because he took 5 3s per game at a .291 clip. Awful.

But he wouldn't be the first player how to figure out how to shoot after joining the NBA.

He just has upside that most of the guys in his range don't. I wont be upset if he's not the guy but he's a player to get excited about IMO. I trust this staff's evaluations.


If he is Rondo I am down. How's his D? Does he have the personality of Rondo because I am not down with that.
I still am not buying it  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:29 am : link
I just read a write up that Springer can be another Jimmy Butler. His defense is really good and took on Cunningham. He can get to the basket. He can shoot. He also had an injury where it affected his explosion so his stock is rising. He's my guess if it isn't Mitchell.


Cooper's breakdown - a lot of negatives including turnovers - ( New Window )
I like  
Jon in NYC : 7/19/2021 9:31 am : link
Springer a lot. More prototypical size and a strong defender. Not sure how much of a facilitator he can be.

They're nearly opposite players lol but I'd be happy with either.
RE: RE: He shot 47% on 2s  
NYG22 : 7/19/2021 9:34 am : link
In comment 15307920 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15307919 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


and 82% at the line as NYG22 mentioned. His atrocious shooting percentage is because he took 5 3s per game at a .291 clip. Awful.

But he wouldn't be the first player how to figure out how to shoot after joining the NBA.

He just has upside that most of the guys in his range don't. I wont be upset if he's not the guy but he's a player to get excited about IMO. I trust this staff's evaluations.



If he is Rondo I am down. How's his D? Does he have the personality of Rondo because I am not down with that.


He doesn't necessarily play Rondo's style but he's got that elite sense of how to slice up a defense both for his own buckets and setting up others. He also has an elite handle that allows him to get anywhere he wants to go. And to answer your question, he does not have an abrasive personality like Rondo. He's a good kid.

Tony Parker is another comp that has some credence to it. Obviously these are hopeful comps bc Rondo and Parker had tremendous careers.
RE: I like  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15307925 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
Springer a lot. More prototypical size and a strong defender. Not sure how much of a facilitator he can be.

They're nearly opposite players lol but I'd be happy with either.


Yep, combo guard but I think Thibs is perfectly fine with that like Rose. Rose can do so much for an offense besides passing. But, like I have said in the past, give me more guys that can handle the ball. I would LOVE a true PG but nygiants16 has stated numerous times that there are very few true PGs in today's NBA. Thibs has had Rose and Butler so if he can get similar players then I think that makes a ton of sense. He also got a first hand look at what Trea Young did to the Knicks. He is a score first PG who gets most of his assists on easy alley-oops because teams are threatened by his ability to score from anywhere on the court.
RE: I still am not buying it  
NYG22 : 7/19/2021 9:37 am : link
In comment 15307923 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I just read a write up that Springer can be another Jimmy Butler. His defense is really good and took on Cunningham. He can get to the basket. He can shoot. He also had an injury where it affected his explosion so his stock is rising. He's my guess if it isn't Mitchell.
Cooper's breakdown - a lot of negatives including turnovers - ( New Window )


FLOOR - He's Josh Hart at a minimum and I mean that as a compliment.

But strong, tough minded, high intangible guys like Springer tend to outperform versus expectations.
Picks 11-18  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 9:44 am : link
10. New Orleans
11. Charlotte
12. San Antonio
13. Indiana
14. Golden State
15. Washington
16. Oklahoma City
17. Memphis
18. Oklahoma City

I'm making the assumption the Knicks want a PG/combo guard. Who on this list are the Knicks trying to jump? Also, who is likely to trade down for picks? I read GS is trying to trade out but want an established starter. I don't think that fits what we would do. GS doesn't sound like they want more picks. However, I do think they want to save money.
RE: Also, since it is the low teens,  
bceagle05 : 7/19/2021 10:19 am : link
In comment 15307897 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
Hopefully we don't give up 19 and 21. Hopefully it is just 19 and 32.

This would be a huge break. I'm guessing Moody or Kispert would require #19/#21, but Cooper may only require #19/#32 or #21/#32.
Jist guessing  
nygiants16 : 7/19/2021 10:26 am : link
but i think the plan is to get a vet point who can come in and start..

get a young 3 and d wing who can do a little more than bullock in the draft..
Cooper might be there  
Carl in CT : 7/19/2021 11:40 am : link
Late 20’s
One could say (no one knows for sure)  
Carl in CT : 7/19/2021 11:46 am : link
9-10 PGS could go before him. Suggs, Cunningham, Mitchell, Giddey, Butler, Ayayi, Dosii, Mann, McBride. (Not saying they will but all could).
Sorry spell check  
Carl in CT : 7/19/2021 11:47 am : link
On Illinois kid.
RE: Let the guessing begin  
TJ : 7/19/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15307895 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:


Quote:


I asked five sources for a team in the first round most likely to move up, and they all said the Knicks. The Knicks have picks No. 19 and 21, along with two second-rounders and an extra top-ten protected pick in 2023 (from Dallas). Multiple sources said there’s a player in the low teens that they have targeted, but no one’s sure who it is. 7 hours ago – via Matt Moore @ Action Network



Could it be Josh Giddey? I've seen him going low-middle teens in some articles. Looks like a great distributer/floor general. He's 18 which is appealing but I have no idea if his low shooting % and mediocre off ball D can be fixed.
We need a #1  
Carl in CT : 7/19/2021 1:00 pm : link
Who plays both ends. Not sure if it’s him.
I think it is moody  
nygiants16 : 7/19/2021 1:09 pm : link
especially if they get a guy like Sexton
KnicksWall.com's offseason simulator is up  
Heisenberg : 7/19/2021 1:20 pm : link


Always a fun way to waste the time until draft night/FA
Fun offseason simulator - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/19/2021 1:33 pm : link
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
There is rising buzz New Orleans plans to enter the race for free agent-to-be Kyle Lowry, league sources say.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 7/19/2021 2:04 pm : link
In comment 15308075 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Marc Stein
@TheSteinLine
There is rising buzz New Orleans plans to enter the race for free agent-to-be Kyle Lowry, league sources say.


Not surprising, Bledsoe will be traded and Ball most likely gone
NOP  
31southst : 7/19/2021 2:25 pm : link
I don't think they have the cap space to outright sign Lowry. I wonder if they are looking at a S&T for Bledsoe and one of their many firsts or something like that? Honestly depending on how the offseason shakes out, I would not be entirely against taking Bledsoe's contract plus a future first to help them free up room. Playoff struggles aside, he's been solid until last year when he played more off ball with point Zion. Only 1 more year fully guaranteed.
Bledsoe is in essence an expiring contract  
GMEN46 : 7/19/2021 5:55 pm : link
Only $3.9 million is guaranteed in 2022.

I would be completely fine with Knicks trading 19 for bledsoe and 10. Bledsoe could be a great backup to whatever your my rookie you want and then you let him go next year woth 3.9 million hit
Wonder if  
GMEN46 : 7/19/2021 5:57 pm : link
Knicks could actually get to 10 by trading 21 and 32 and taking on Bledsoe contract and then package 10, 19 and Dallas 2023 to get to 5 to get Suggs with rumors that Scotty Barnes is going 4 now
RE: Wonder if  
robbieballs2003 : 7/19/2021 6:52 pm : link
In comment 15308222 GMEN46 said:
Quote:
Knicks could actually get to 10 by trading 21 and 32 and taking on Bledsoe contract and then package 10, 19 and Dallas 2023 to get to 5 to get Suggs with rumors that Scotty Barnes is going 4 now


Um, fuck yeah
..  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 8:36 am : link
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
4m
According to a league source, the Knicks have several notable players in for a workout today, incl. fast rising UVA wing Trey Murphy III, Florida G Tre Mann & Kentucky C Isaiah Jackson.

Murphy & Jackson are on the short list for the final 2 spots in the Green Room next Thursday
RE: ..  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 8:47 am : link
In comment 15308482 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Jonathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
4m
According to a league source, the Knicks have several notable players in for a workout today, incl. fast rising UVA wing Trey Murphy III, Florida G Tre Mann & Kentucky C Isaiah Jackson.

Murphy & Jackson are on the short list for the final 2 spots in the Green Room next Thursday


I like all those names, honestly.
Jackson  
Jon in NYC : 7/20/2021 8:55 am : link
has Knicks written all over him.

Kentucky, same size and style of play as Nerlens.
..  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 9:59 am : link

NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
"Few team executives expect a Dame deal to happen this offseason. But multiple front-office sources say the Heat, Kings, Knicks, Rockets, and Sixers have recently been the most aggressive suitors."

-
@KevinOConnorNBA
RE: ..  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2021 10:15 am : link
In comment 15308564 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
"Few team executives expect a Dame deal to happen this offseason. But multiple front-office sources say the Heat, Kings, Knicks, Rockets, and Sixers have recently been the most aggressive suitors."

-
@KevinOConnorNBA


When I see something like that, it makes me think someone from the trailblazers are putting this out or someone who really doesn't know. Who on the outside is going to know who is the most aggressive? This sounds like someone is trying to drive up the market. I truly don't believe the Knicks are that aggressive right now unless someone like Leonard would come with him. Also, there was just an article yesterday stating the Knicks are looking to preserve cap room for a star next year like Levine or Beal. There are rumors that the Knicks are trying to trade up in the draft. This does not sound like a team being aggressive for Lillard. Just my two cents.
For obvious reasons, I like Trey Murphy  
Greg from LI : 7/20/2021 10:17 am : link
But I will caution you all - if they pick him, he is probably going to take a little time to develop. He is one year removed from playing for Rice, and he's a really skinny dude. He'll need to get stronger to be successful.

Also, while I think he's got the ability to do it, he'll have to develop more offensively. His role at UVA was mostly just to shoot threes on kickouts. Handle needs to improve, for one thing.

He is a helluva shooter though, that part is absolutely legit.
RE: For obvious reasons, I like Trey Murphy  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2021 10:21 am : link
In comment 15308597 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But I will caution you all - if they pick him, he is probably going to take a little time to develop. He is one year removed from playing for Rice, and he's a really skinny dude. He'll need to get stronger to be successful.

Also, while I think he's got the ability to do it, he'll have to develop more offensively. His role at UVA was mostly just to shoot threes on kickouts. Handle needs to improve, for one thing.

He is a helluva shooter though, that part is absolutely legit.


I know he is supposedly "moving up" but I wonder of he makes it to 32? Not sure they'd pick him at 21 because this is a really solid draft. But, this kind of goes along with what Thibs said and why I think Cooper is not someone they'd trade up for and that is they need shooters. There are a few guys in this draft that can be available at all their picks that are very intriguing.
RE: RE: ..  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 10:30 am : link
In comment 15308594 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308564 nygiants16 said:


Quote:



NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
"Few team executives expect a Dame deal to happen this offseason. But multiple front-office sources say the Heat, Kings, Knicks, Rockets, and Sixers have recently been the most aggressive suitors."

-
@KevinOConnorNBA



When I see something like that, it makes me think someone from the trailblazers are putting this out or someone who really doesn't know. Who on the outside is going to know who is the most aggressive? This sounds like someone is trying to drive up the market. I truly don't believe the Knicks are that aggressive right now unless someone like Leonard would come with him. Also, there was just an article yesterday stating the Knicks are looking to preserve cap room for a star next year like Levine or Beal. There are rumors that the Knicks are trying to trade up in the draft. This does not sound like a team being aggressive for Lillard. Just my two cents.


I think it is from his agent..

Lillard never really denied the trade rumors, basically said he hasnt made a decision yet..

plus Windhorst "misspeaking" about his agent in contact eith teams
at 32  
JJ2525 : 7/20/2021 10:32 am : link
i'd take jeremiah robinson-earl if he makes it there. he's going to be a rotational big in the league for the next 10 years. i think he's got paul milsap upside.
Under the radar guys  
NYG22 : 7/20/2021 11:35 am : link
I like at 32 are:

Jericho Sims - a BIG and an elite defender and rim runner

Herbert Jones - reminds me of Shane Battier

Quentin Grimes - staying with comps, Grimes reminds me of Spencer Dinwiddie, a strong combo guard who plays a physical game

Luka Garza - defensive concerns will kill his draft spot but he will be a rich man's Aron Baynes who had a long/useful spot in the league as a rotational BIG.

BJ Boston - desperately needs to mature (physically, emotionally) but he's still a former Top 5 prospect who has a shot to be a starting wing in time; he's probably two years away but its a decent lottery ticket at 32
Such an awkward time.  
bceagle05 : 7/20/2021 11:47 am : link
I'm excited about the idea of McBride/Mann/Cooper/Murphy being drafted, or Moody/Kispert in a trade up, but these are picks that Cleveland or Portland (doubtful) might be making on draft night.
Woo  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 12:02 pm : link
19. Knicks: Trey Murphy, F, Virginia

Height: 6' 9" | Weight: 205 | Age: 21 | Junior

There’s a good deal of chatter around the league that the Knicks are aiming to combine their two first-round picks to move up in the draft, so it’s possible they don’t wind up making this selection. Murphy has gathered as much steam as any prospect in the draft over the last few months, and now looks like a good bet to hear his name called in the teens. He’s successfully showcased impressive run-jump athleticism on the workout circuit and has convinced teams he’ll be a passable defender who plays with poise, can knock down open threes, and has untapped upside to offer. Murphy isn’t a great ballhandler or creative passer, but has a good sense of his own strengths and weaknesses and shouldn’t be a major liability. Scouts I’ve spoken with have frequently used Phoenix’s Cam Johnson as an analog. He’d be a good fit for New York if they stand pat.

21. Knicks (from Mavericks): Isaiah Jackson, C, Kentucky

Height: 6' 10" | Weight: 205 | Age: 19 | Freshman

While Jackson is inarguably raw and not particularly skilled, his athletic tools have sparked first-round interest, the hope being that he’ll evolve into a viable rim-running, shot-blocking, end-to-end big. Jackson is a ways away from reaching that level—he’s extremely foul-prone and scores almost entirely within gameflow—and there’s been a bit of an ideological resurgence surrounding bigs with offensive skills, which makes his fit a bit more selective. New York is facing an extension decision on Mitchell Robinson next summer, and adding depth up front through the draft could be prudent, depending on what the Knicks decide to do with their two picks.
I would be happy with Murphy and Jackson if NYK stays put.  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 1:03 pm : link
They both look like they'll be good NBA players to me and both have defensive potential that Thibs would probably love.

I can see the Noel comp for Jackson but one thing I hate about Noel is he has terrible hands. Jackson seems to have really good hands for a big man.
From the same mock draft Dan mentioned above...  
bceagle05 : 7/20/2021 1:24 pm : link
Quote:
There’s been an increasing amount of chatter among rival teams connecting Bouknight to the Thunder at No. 6, and in any scenario, it appears unlikely he falls past No. 8. Oklahoma City is positioned to take a gamble on upside and can pair him with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in a dynamic young backcourt, with Bouknight likely afforded some room to expand his playmaking skills and operate with freedom. He’s arguably the most polished scorer in the draft as things stand, with real creativity finishing in the paint and creating shots, and teams expect he’ll be more than adequate as a jump shooter, pointing to some legitimate star potential if everything breaks correctly.

MockDraft - ( New Window )
.  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 1:41 pm : link
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
31s
Portland guard Norman Powell tells @YahooSports
he is declining his $11.6 million player option to become an unrestricted free agent and the Trail Blazers are making the high-flyer their top priority.
RE: .  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15308790 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
31s
Portland guard Norman Powell tells @YahooSports
he is declining his $11.6 million player option to become an unrestricted free agent and the Trail Blazers are making the high-flyer their top priority.


If they resign him they need to trade mccollum because Powell cant be playing small forward
The  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 2:02 pm : link
Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO
RE: The  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 2:28 pm : link
In comment 15308807 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO


about moving up?
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15308820 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308807 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO



about moving up?


Yes.
I’d  
Really : 7/20/2021 2:41 pm : link
take Bledsoe and 10 for Knox and 21.

Berman says Quentin Grimes "wowed" Knicks brass  
bceagle05 : 7/20/2021 2:55 pm : link
at a workout two weeks ago.
RE: The  
Anakim : 7/20/2021 2:59 pm : link
In comment 15308807 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO


For who? Who are we targeting?
RE: RE: The  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15308847 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15308807 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO



For who? Who are we targeting?


No clue
Figure  
DanMetroMan : 7/20/2021 3:06 pm : link
it's obviously someone in the 7-12 range so...Kuminga, Moody, Bouknight, Wagner, Mitchell, Johnson, Thomas, Giddey, Kispert, Jones would be the obvious names
RE: The  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2021 3:32 pm : link
In comment 15308807 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Knicks have spoken to both Orlando and NO


This makes me very happy. Hopefully the Knicks pull off a sick deal where we trade up with one pick and still keep our others.
RE: .  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15308790 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
31s
Portland guard Norman Powell tells @YahooSports
he is declining his $11.6 million player option to become an unrestricted free agent and the Trail Blazers are making the high-flyer their top priority.


This is also interesting as there were rumors during the season that the Knicks were interested in him.
If we can get to 8 or 10  
Carl in CT : 7/20/2021 4:39 pm : link
Maybe there’s another jump up for Suggs.
It is hard to fall in love with  
nygiants16 : 7/20/2021 5:07 pm : link
any of these prospects because i expect the Knicks to trade the picks..
RE: If we can get to 8 or 10  
robbieballs2003 : 7/20/2021 5:33 pm : link
In comment 15308926 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Maybe there’s another jump up for Suggs.


My dream scenario. I'm not sure why he has dropped but earlier this year it was Suggs and Cunningham battling for the top pick in the draft.
RE: It is hard to fall in love with  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 5:35 pm : link
In comment 15308952 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
any of these prospects because i expect the Knicks to trade the picks..


yep, can see the knicks moving up into top 10, 10-15 or staying put at 19-21, packaging them for vets or trading some of these picks out into future drafts. I literally have no idea what the Knicks will do. It's kinda fun.
RE: .  
TommyWiseau : 7/20/2021 7:30 pm : link
In comment 15308790 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Chris Haynes
@ChrisBHaynes
·
31s
Portland guard Norman Powell tells @YahooSports
he is declining his $11.6 million player option to become an unrestricted free agent and the Trail Blazers are making the high-flyer their top priority.


Would love Powell on the Knicks, he is a player that could thrive with Thibs
RE: I’d  
TommyWiseau : 7/20/2021 7:34 pm : link
In comment 15308836 Really said:
Quote:
take Bledsoe and 10 for Knox and 21.


I would take on Bledsoe to move up from 21 to 10 then bring in Powell and either move up again from 10 or stay put at 10, 19 and 32
RE: If we can get to 8 or 10  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/20/2021 8:25 pm : link
In comment 15308926 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Maybe there’s another jump up for Suggs.


I'd love for that. In an ideal world, Mobley drops, but I doubt it.
Bobby Portis a Bucks hero.  
larryflower37 : 7/20/2021 11:09 pm : link
Happy for him, he was fun to watch when he was here
Portis reminds me of  
Bricktop : 7/20/2021 11:11 pm : link
Blizzard from Juice.

Yo, Q. You wanna piece a this?
Portis looks a lot like Plax to me.  
bceagle05 : 7/20/2021 11:18 pm : link
Happy for him too.
Didn't think Giannis  
larryflower37 : 7/20/2021 11:50 pm : link
Could carry a team to a championship but damn you can't bet against him.
18-19 in free throws is impressive in the biggest game.
RE: Portis looks a lot like Plax to me.  
Enzo : 7/21/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15309235 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Happy for him too.

ha - I've always thought that. They definitely look alike.
RE: Didn't think Giannis  
Heisenberg : 7/21/2021 9:13 am : link
In comment 15309262 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
Could carry a team to a championship but damn you can't bet against him.
18-19 in free throws is impressive in the biggest game.


He was a monster on both ends last night. It was some superhero stuff.
Vecenie  
DanMetroMan : 7/21/2021 2:23 pm : link
19. New York Knicks
Usman Garuba | 6-8 big | 19 years old | Real Madrid

The player: Defense, defense, defense. Garuba is already one of the best defenders in Europe as a teenager and profiles as a potential All-Defense Team guy in the NBA by the time he’s 25. He can defend on the interior, with terrific fundamentals for verticality and weakside shot blocking. His ability to slide his feet and drop his hips laterally is ridiculous, and his instincts as a pick-and-roll defender are terrific. The problems come on offense. He’s still not a particularly effective player on that end, but there have been signs of progress. He has been making more 3s recently, but it’s going to take some time. He can also pass the ball out of short rolls a bit, and he’s not totally afraid to put the ball on the deck.

The fit: Tom Thibodeau’s favorite player is Taj Gibson. There are a lot of similarities between Garuba and Gibson, as both are absolutely elite defenders positionally. The difference is that Garuba has a bit more athleticism and pop than Gibson ever did, and thus has a real chance to be the kind of impact defender it’s worth consistently keeping on the court. Also, the Knicks will be very familiar with Garuba, as he’s repped by CAA. While I do think that connection to the current front office has been slightly overblown, I also believe it’ll help in regard to familiarity with a player they might not have gotten a chance to see overseas this year.

21. New York Knicks (via DAL)
Jaden Springer | 6-4 guard | 18 years old, freshman | Tennessee

The player: Springer had a strong freshman season for the Vols. His advanced numbers and analytics are quite strong for his age. And similarly to Johnson above, Springer was tremendous late in the season. He averaged 16 points, four rebounds and three assists in his final 11 games, finally getting a chance to show off why he was a five-star prospect. He’s also a terrific defender. Having said that, I’ve found that Springer’s game isn’t loved by many scouts. He plays almost solely off two feet and doesn’t seem to get the most out of his athleticism. There’s a degree of bully-ball here. He’s going to have to adjust his game to have success at the next level.

The fit: I’ve heard two consistent things with the Knicks over the last week. First, they see shot creation as a genuine need, and they’ll look to address it. Second, don’t be surprised if they end up not picking at 19 and 21. Springer would fill that shot-creation ability, and it’s easy to see how Thibodeau would be an enormous fan of the Tennessee product due to his defensive intensity




Like @JeremyWoo, @Sam_Vecenie is hearing @knicks may look to pair #19 and #21 to move up
Garuba  
Jon in NYC : 7/21/2021 2:36 pm : link
and Springer would be a nice duo. Tough to see real starter upside in either guy, but they'd help build out a stout bench fairly immediately.

That said, if you can move up and get a true swingman partner for Barrett that'd probably be ideal. Moody, Kispert, etc.
One  
Jon in NYC : 7/21/2021 2:38 pm : link
guy who may be falling just a bit is Davian Mitchell. Using both firsts to grab him and then taking a 3/D guy like Quentin Grimes at 32 would be an unbelievable draft.
RE: ..  
Gatorade Dunk : 7/21/2021 4:16 pm : link
In comment 15308564 nygiants16 said:
Quote:

NBA Central
@TheNBACentral
·
1m
"Few team executives expect a Dame deal to happen this offseason. But multiple front-office sources say the Heat, Kings, Knicks, Rockets, and Sixers have recently been the most aggressive suitors."

-
@KevinOConnorNBA

So he's not going to be traded, but we can chat about being interested. Neat.
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