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NFT: Bezos to Space

UConn4523 : 7/20/2021 8:09 am
that man meat rocket is blasting off shortly. Regardless of what you think of Bezos this is a pretty cool moment, particularly for Wally Funk. She was part of Mercury 13 in the 60's which Nasa cancelled before the women finishing training. By the time she qualified she was too old (in the 90's I think) and now she finally gets to go to space at 82.

Side note I just watched "For All Mankind" on Apple TV which goes into the backstory of that program in part (blended with alt-history) - excellent show.
Live Feed - ( New Window )
It is awesome to see this evolve from the early 60's  
Sec 103 : 7/20/2021 8:39 am : link
Glad to see that ultimately the common man will be privileged enough to see the blue marble from above. Guess I'll be too old however to fulfill my dream.
RE: It is awesome to see this evolve from the early 60's  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 8:46 am : link
In comment 15308485 Sec 103 said:
Quote:
Glad to see that ultimately the common man will be privileged enough to see the blue marble from above. Guess I'll be too old however to fulfill my dream.


We're probably another 60 years from the 'common man' going to space.
I too appreciate the "democratization" of space flight, but  
CT Charlie : 7/20/2021 8:47 am : link
I can't see how it will ever be affordable for the masses. It simply takes so much energy to resist gravity, and I don't see the cost of energy decreasing until perhaps we figure out controlled fusion. Having said that, even now I can picture folks who've saved their whole lives who'd choose to spend $200k of their 401k on a space flight instead of building an addition on their home.
Looks like the Bezo is Ready for launch...  
BamaBlue : 7/20/2021 8:49 am : link
the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 8:52 am : link
common folks going to space is pretty laughable.
RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 8:55 am : link
In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
common folks going to space is pretty laughable.


Not just that, but what's the point of the "common man" going into space if it is just to fly up, have some weightlessness and come back? If it is to visit a moon colony or something, I get it. To take a joy ride? Not anything the "common man" is ever going to do before there are other reasons to fly up there
Put me in the  
UConn4523 : 7/20/2021 8:57 am : link
“It’s great to see but have no desire nor see the point of it being available for the common person” camp.
Billionaires racing to space. Why?  
mac attack : 7/20/2021 8:57 am : link
To me, people like Bezos and Musk want to get to space so they can build factories where there are no labor laws to further reduce costs, exploit "subhuman" workers, and continue to guzzle billions back on Earth.

Or they just want to take joy rides.
......  
Route 9 : 7/20/2021 9:03 am : link
Tax free?
RE: RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 9:04 am : link
In comment 15308497 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


common folks going to space is pretty laughable.



Not just that, but what's the point of the "common man" going into space if it is just to fly up, have some weightlessness and come back? If it is to visit a moon colony or something, I get it. To take a joy ride? Not anything the "common man" is ever going to do before there are other reasons to fly up there


The billionaires will need someone to mine the asteroids they capture!
For anyone who sees this solely as...  
BMac : 7/20/2021 9:04 am : link
...a stunt needs to read "The Man Who Sold the Moon," a science fiction novella by Robert A. Heinlein, published in 1950.
RE: Billionaires racing to space. Why?  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 9:07 am : link
In comment 15308500 mac attack said:
Quote:
To me, people like Bezos and Musk want to get to space so they can build factories where there are no labor laws to further reduce costs, exploit "subhuman" workers, and continue to guzzle billions back on Earth.

Or they just want to take joy rides.


What? It would cost far more to get the workers to space than they'd possibly save in taxes or unions.

Short term - it's all about their egos or if you want to be kind to them, maybe about fulfilling some childhood dreams.

Long term - potential for massive profits if they can mine asteroids for rare metals.
Our solar system  
Blue92 : 7/20/2021 9:32 am : link
has untold amounts of resources. It's in our interest to figure out how to travel there regularly. This is just one step, IMO.
Space flight fascinates me…  
Chris in Philly : 7/20/2021 9:36 am : link
and NASA has been responsible for some of the great innovations. But this? A 30 second joyride? And he really lost me with this:

"The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel. That is basically it," Bezos says in an interview with Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner, published by Business Insider on Saturday.

This is the only way? Not curing cancer or Alzheimer’s or a hundred other horrible diseases? Not ending hunger throughout the world? Not developing alternative energies? Not a million other things that the richest man in the world could throw untold billions at, but the same thing every other Bond villain wannabe billionaire is doing? Whatever.
He lived and got to go to "space"  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 9:44 am : link
Congrats to Bezos. Maybe someday he can match what Gagarin did 60 years ago.
RE: Space flight fascinates me…  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15308542 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
and NASA has been responsible for some of the great innovations. But this? A 30 second joyride? And he really lost me with this:

"The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel. That is basically it," Bezos says in an interview with Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner, published by Business Insider on Saturday.

This is the only way? Not curing cancer or Alzheimer’s or a hundred other horrible diseases? Not ending hunger throughout the world? Not developing alternative energies? Not a million other things that the richest man in the world could throw untold billions at, but the same thing every other Bond villain wannabe billionaire is doing? Whatever.


I agree that's a pretty tone-deaf statement, but he is developing alternative energy. General Fusion is one of the front runners for a commercially viable fusion plant.

General Fusion
RE: Space flight fascinates me…  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15308542 Chris in Philly said:
Quote:
and NASA has been responsible for some of the great innovations. But this? A 30 second joyride? And he really lost me with this:

"The only way that I can see to deploy this much financial resource is by converting my Amazon winnings into space travel. That is basically it," Bezos says in an interview with Axel Springer CEO Mathias Döpfner, published by Business Insider on Saturday.

This is the only way? Not curing cancer or Alzheimer’s or a hundred other horrible diseases? Not ending hunger throughout the world? Not developing alternative energies? Not a million other things that the richest man in the world could throw untold billions at, but the same thing every other Bond villain wannabe billionaire is doing? Whatever.


Agreed. And, while it is pretty cool, can you really call this ‘space travel’ or a ‘space flight’? To me, this seems like the equivalent of getting half way past first base with a girl in high school and then claiming you went all the way.
This cracked me up  
Greg from LI : 7/20/2021 9:56 am : link

Phil Hughes
@PJHughes45
·
14m
Everything about this spectacle is pure hilarity. Bezos went to space in a giant penis with his brother and an old lady for 2 min. Then proceeded to touch down safely in the dickhead where 2 stairs were awaiting their arrival to step down a ft and a half
RE: RE: Space flight fascinates me…  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/20/2021 9:58 am : link
In comment 15308553 bwitz said:
Quote:


Agreed. And, while it is pretty cool, can you really call this ‘space travel’ or a ‘space flight’? To me, this seems like the equivalent of getting half way past first base with a girl in high school and then claiming you went all the way.


Ask Alan Shepherd.
RE: RE: RE: Space flight fascinates me…  
BamaBlue : 7/20/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15308562 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15308553 bwitz said:


Quote:




Agreed. And, while it is pretty cool, can you really call this ‘space travel’ or a ‘space flight’? To me, this seems like the equivalent of getting half way past first base with a girl in high school and then claiming you went all the way.



Ask Alan Shepherd.


He walked on the moon...
RE: RE: RE: Space flight fascinates me…  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15308562 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:
In comment 15308553 bwitz said:


Quote:




Agreed. And, while it is pretty cool, can you really call this ‘space travel’ or a ‘space flight’? To me, this seems like the equivalent of getting half way past first base with a girl in high school and then claiming you went all the way.



Ask Alan Shepherd.


I get your point but, really don’t see the parallels. What Shepherd did was ground (space?) breaking at the time for the US. Being the first American to do it means a lot. This just seems like a mega rich guy who did it because he could so he could check off another thing on his bucket list.
Just looking forward to  
widmerseyebrow : 7/20/2021 10:25 am : link
Bezos calling Elon a pussy.
RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 10:28 am : link
In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
common folks going to space is pretty laughable.


Really? Think of it this way:

1. 50-60 years ago sending 'regular' people to space was laughable.

2. 5 years ago landing a first stage booster was unheard of, now it happens so much, nobody cares.

3. If we went from landing on the moon to private citizens giving space 'just the tip' in a giant penis rocket in 50 years +/-, what do you think the next 50 years has in store?

Costs will continue to go down as the industry innovates/matures. Everything that is standard now for the common folks started off as a rich person toy. Just look at the evolution of cars, all the stuff that is standard today started off as luxury options in high end cars.
The point...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 10:35 am : link
isn't if it will be possible for "common folk" to go into space - the point is why would that ever happen unless it was for a larger purpose of travel to a destination?

You really think this charade of joyrides to the edge of the atmosphere is going to continue?
I don't understand the opinion  
KDavies : 7/20/2021 10:36 am : link
that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.
The launch is all for show  
ghost718 : 7/20/2021 10:39 am : link
The shuttle is loaded with Amazon gift cards,it's really just one of these.

......  
Klaatu : 7/20/2021 10:39 am : link


I'm a doctor, not an Amazon delivery driver.
RE: I don't understand the opinion  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15308632 KDavies said:
Quote:
that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.


I think the opinion was aimed at Bezos acting as if the only place worthwhile to spend his money was in the area of space travel.
RE: RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
Sec 103 : 7/20/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15308618 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


common folks going to space is pretty laughable.



Really? Think of it this way:

1. 50-60 years ago sending 'regular' people to space was laughable.

2. 5 years ago landing a first stage booster was unheard of, now it happens so much, nobody cares.

3. If we went from landing on the moon to private citizens giving space 'just the tip' in a giant penis rocket in 50 years +/-, what do you think the next 50 years has in store?

Costs will continue to go down as the industry innovates/matures. Everything that is standard now for the common folks started off as a rich person toy. Just look at the evolution of cars, all the stuff that is standard today started off as luxury options in high end cars.


In other news the earth is flat!
RE: I don't understand the opinion  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 10:49 am : link
In comment 15308632 KDavies said:
Quote:
that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.


My opinion is that, it’s money that could be spent to further the research and potentially reducing the effect of, or eradicating things like diseases (cancer, AIDS, Alzheimer’s, etc.) or hunger. Is traveling to space cool? Of course. Is it necessary? Not really. It’s nice that they brought the cost of traveling to space down but, if that money were spent on say, cancer research or cancer drugs, it likely could’ve reduced the costs of treatment and those drugs for people who get crippled with debt simply because they want to live.

But, again, that’s just my opinion.
RE: The launch is all for show  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 10:50 am : link
In comment 15308634 ghost718 said:
Quote:
The shuttle is loaded with Amazon gift cards,it's really just one of these.



Whatever man. I’m not putting on those sun glasses. And you can’t make me!
RE: RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 11:03 am : link
In comment 15308618 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


common folks going to space is pretty laughable.



Really? Think of it this way:

1. 50-60 years ago sending 'regular' people to space was laughable.

2. 5 years ago landing a first stage booster was unheard of, now it happens so much, nobody cares.

3. If we went from landing on the moon to private citizens giving space 'just the tip' in a giant penis rocket in 50 years +/-, what do you think the next 50 years has in store?

Costs will continue to go down as the industry innovates/matures. Everything that is standard now for the common folks started off as a rich person toy. Just look at the evolution of cars, all the stuff that is standard today started off as luxury options in high end cars.


You are greatly underestimating the amount of resources necessary to launch a person into space. SpaceX's rockets take 902,000 pounds of fuel to launch into sub orbital space. At what point is a million pounds of fuel going to become affordable for an average person. This isn't TVs and Phones getting smaller and cheaper and the internet getting faster and faster. There are immutable laws of physics involved in launching a person into space and the resources required will only ever be affordable to wealthy folks.
So you’re saying not everyone is going to get to be the  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 11:08 am : link
fat slobs from Wall-E living comfortably on a space station?

Shit.
RE: RE: I don't understand the opinion  
KDavies : 7/20/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15308645 bwitz said:
Quote:
In comment 15308632 KDavies said:


Quote:


that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.



My opinion is that, it’s money that could be spent to further the research and potentially reducing the effect of, or eradicating things like diseases (cancer, AIDS, Alzheimer’s, etc.) or hunger. Is traveling to space cool? Of course. Is it necessary? Not really. It’s nice that they brought the cost of traveling to space down but, if that money were spent on say, cancer research or cancer drugs, it likely could’ve reduced the costs of treatment and those drugs for people who get crippled with debt simply because they want to live.

But, again, that’s just my opinion.


So, it's ok when the government spends their money on space travel, but we expect private citizens to eradicate these social issues? Sorry, private citizens have the right to spend money however they want.
RE: Billionaires racing to space. Why?  
djm : 7/20/2021 11:11 am : link
In comment 15308500 mac attack said:
Quote:
To me, people like Bezos and Musk want to get to space so they can build factories where there are no labor laws to further reduce costs, exploit "subhuman" workers, and continue to guzzle billions back on Earth.

Or they just want to take joy rides.


follow the money.

RE: RE: RE: I don't understand the opinion  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 11:19 am : link
In comment 15308675 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15308645 bwitz said:


Quote:


In comment 15308632 KDavies said:


Quote:


that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.



My opinion is that, it’s money that could be spent to further the research and potentially reducing the effect of, or eradicating things like diseases (cancer, AIDS, Alzheimer’s, etc.) or hunger. Is traveling to space cool? Of course. Is it necessary? Not really. It’s nice that they brought the cost of traveling to space down but, if that money were spent on say, cancer research or cancer drugs, it likely could’ve reduced the costs of treatment and those drugs for people who get crippled with debt simply because they want to live.

But, again, that’s just my opinion.



So, it's ok when the government spends their money on space travel, but we expect private citizens to eradicate these social issues? Sorry, private citizens have the right to spend money however they want.


Nobody is saying he doesn't have the right to spend the money how he wants. But this is what he said

"“I’m pursuing this work, because I believe if we don’t we will eventually end up with a civilization of stasis, which I find very demoralizing,” he said about his goals of space exploration — and eventually colonization. “I am very lucky that I feel like I have a mission-driven purpose with Blue Origin that is, I think, incredibly important for civilization long term. And I am going to use my financial lottery winnings from Amazon to fund that.”"

If you're gonna sit there and say "i'm helping civilization with my space race project" then you open yourself to criticism from folks who feel that it's likely not that helpful at all to the non-billionaires in the world. He opened himself to this.
um...  
KDavies : 7/20/2021 11:21 am : link
nobody is saying he can't spend his money however he wants, yet people are saying how he should spend his money. Got it.
"What if we were billionaires"?  
D HOS : 7/20/2021 11:26 am : link
My son and I were talking about this the other day... we had all kinds of really fun, clever and extravagant ideas. One of mine is to have a compound fronted by epically massive dwarven stone doors, with little gaps and mirrors such that when a full moon occurs on a summer solstice, if the sky is clear the light will hit just right creating a beam to mark a spot).

We both agreed that "orbital joyride" wasn't one of our interests.

We dig amazon and audible and the cool stuff amazon is trying to get into. We love what Elon is doing by creating several game changing technologies/product/companies. So no hate on those two billionaires (though we both agree though that zuckerberg is a huge douche canoe, as are seemingly most public figure billionaires).
Bezos is part of the 1%  
djm : 7/20/2021 11:30 am : link
that aren't very popular right now. I think he will be fine taking some heat on social media. Fuck him if he doesn't like it. Maybe try paying people more money. Avg driver makes around 17 bucks an hour. Even 20-25 bucks aint shit for someone trying to earn a living.

No one wants to pay anyone. That's the problem in my eyes. Inflation goes up. Pay stays the same. Housing goes up. Pay stays the same. Want to earn a degree? You're 100K in debt at the very least. Fresh out of college and want to earn a living? Good luck with that. You're going to have to starve for 5-10 years.

It's all rigged. People are seeing that now.
and I am not bitter  
djm : 7/20/2021 11:31 am : link
I am doing just fine. I just see an unsustainable model.
funny that the same people that rail about  
KDavies : 7/20/2021 11:34 am : link
billionaires and the 1%, are the same people who were advocating for government to shut down all business, which resulted in perhaps the greatest transfer of money to those same billionaires, while crushing many small businesses.
He got there for free with Prime...  
EricJ : 7/20/2021 11:34 am : link
..
RE: um...  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 11:34 am : link
In comment 15308686 KDavies said:
Quote:
nobody is saying he can't spend his money however he wants, yet people are saying how he should spend his money. Got it.


I'm a huge proponent of space exploration and people spending their money however they want, but if Bezos is going to claim that he's doing this for altruistic reasons then he opens himself up to criticism.
I should add  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 11:35 am : link
if he just claimed "it's been a dream of mine since I was a kid", the critics would have nothing (or less) to b**** about.
RE: The point...  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 11:39 am : link
In comment 15308629 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
isn't if it will be possible for "common folk" to go into space - the point is why would that ever happen unless it was for a larger purpose of travel to a destination?

You really think this charade of joyrides to the edge of the atmosphere is going to continue?


Yes. We aren't going to colonize Mars or the moon anytime soon, so I think this type of toursim is the only viable option.

SpaceX is sending private citizens around the world in a couple of months. If their starship test is viable that gives a legitiamte path to tourism to the moon and back.

I think you will have many tiers of space tourism: Virgin Galactic as the 'cheapest' and then the Blue Origin/SpaceX model that will let you go higher into space, orbit the earth, or eventually land on the moon and come back.

I think the allure of space is strong since so few people have left the earth that people will pay money to do something that so few have done so far. It will be interesting to watch how the space toursim market matures; which in itself will drive space craft innovation.
shit, Amazon drivers cannot  
KDavies : 7/20/2021 11:43 am : link
even follow directions on the arrows as to how the package should be placed.
RE: um...  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15308686 KDavies said:
Quote:
nobody is saying he can't spend his money however he wants, yet people are saying how he should spend his money. Got it.


Actually, it doesn't seem that you do.
RE: RE: RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15308667 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15308618 BH28 said:


Quote:


In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


common folks going to space is pretty laughable.



Really? Think of it this way:

1. 50-60 years ago sending 'regular' people to space was laughable.

2. 5 years ago landing a first stage booster was unheard of, now it happens so much, nobody cares.

3. If we went from landing on the moon to private citizens giving space 'just the tip' in a giant penis rocket in 50 years +/-, what do you think the next 50 years has in store?

Costs will continue to go down as the industry innovates/matures. Everything that is standard now for the common folks started off as a rich person toy. Just look at the evolution of cars, all the stuff that is standard today started off as luxury options in high end cars.



You are greatly underestimating the amount of resources necessary to launch a person into space. SpaceX's rockets take 902,000 pounds of fuel to launch into sub orbital space. At what point is a million pounds of fuel going to become affordable for an average person. This isn't TVs and Phones getting smaller and cheaper and the internet getting faster and faster. There are immutable laws of physics involved in launching a person into space and the resources required will only ever be affordable to wealthy folks.


It's not going to stay that way forever. Every single part of a rocket besides the capsule used to be wasted; now they are innovating to make it all reusable. Imagine how expensive air travel would be if the planes were one use?

Viable electric cars were non-existent 50 years ago; you don't think that the propulsion systems will continue to evolve to get cheaper and more viable? That new technologies will evolve to solve these problems?
RE: um...  
Route 9 : 7/20/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15308686 KDavies said:
Quote:
nobody is saying he can't spend his money however he wants, yet people are saying how he should spend his money. Got it.


Octogenarian Vermont Progressives!!
RE: RE: RE: I don't understand the opinion  
bwitz : 7/20/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15308675 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15308645 bwitz said:


Quote:


In comment 15308632 KDavies said:


Quote:


that Bezos, Branson, Musk should be spending the money on curing cancer, hunger, and homelessness rather than spending money on space travel.

One article I have read is that they reduced the cost of space travel by a factor of 44 from what the government was spending.



My opinion is that, it’s money that could be spent to further the research and potentially reducing the effect of, or eradicating things like diseases (cancer, AIDS, Alzheimer’s, etc.) or hunger. Is traveling to space cool? Of course. Is it necessary? Not really. It’s nice that they brought the cost of traveling to space down but, if that money were spent on say, cancer research or cancer drugs, it likely could’ve reduced the costs of treatment and those drugs for people who get crippled with debt simply because they want to live.

But, again, that’s just my opinion.



So, it's ok when the government spends their money on space travel, but we expect private citizens to eradicate these social issues? Sorry, private citizens have the right to spend money however they want.


I don’t expect them to. It’s their money so, of course how they spend it is their prerogative. Just my opinion that it could probably be better spent elsewhere based on Bezos’ comment, that’s all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: the idea that these billionaire vanity projects will result in  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15308711 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308667 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 15308618 BH28 said:


Quote:


In comment 15308495 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


common folks going to space is pretty laughable.



Really? Think of it this way:

1. 50-60 years ago sending 'regular' people to space was laughable.

2. 5 years ago landing a first stage booster was unheard of, now it happens so much, nobody cares.

3. If we went from landing on the moon to private citizens giving space 'just the tip' in a giant penis rocket in 50 years +/-, what do you think the next 50 years has in store?

Costs will continue to go down as the industry innovates/matures. Everything that is standard now for the common folks started off as a rich person toy. Just look at the evolution of cars, all the stuff that is standard today started off as luxury options in high end cars.



You are greatly underestimating the amount of resources necessary to launch a person into space. SpaceX's rockets take 902,000 pounds of fuel to launch into sub orbital space. At what point is a million pounds of fuel going to become affordable for an average person. This isn't TVs and Phones getting smaller and cheaper and the internet getting faster and faster. There are immutable laws of physics involved in launching a person into space and the resources required will only ever be affordable to wealthy folks.



It's not going to stay that way forever. Every single part of a rocket besides the capsule used to be wasted; now they are innovating to make it all reusable. Imagine how expensive air travel would be if the planes were one use?

Viable electric cars were non-existent 50 years ago; you don't think that the propulsion systems will continue to evolve to get cheaper and more viable? That new technologies will evolve to solve these problems?


It's going to take an incredible technological leap in propulsion to change the math on this. There's nothing that I've seen from Blue Origin that would indicate that they're doing anything that would revolutionize propulsion like that. It simply takes an incredible amount of energy to put something in space, reusuable spacecraft or not. That math will not change anytime soon. It's not analogous to electric cars.
Thanks for the link  
ZogZerg : 7/20/2021 12:03 pm : link
I watched him take off and land in about 5 minutes.
I thought it was pretty cool. It's one step above the Disney's Mission Space ride;).

It's cool that they can land the rocket back down on earth and re-use it.
It's not going to happen overnight  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 12:04 pm : link
But when I look at how far we've come from early 1900s, from a transportation perspective, the amount of change innovation since then in such a short time of human existence is incredible.

I'm optimistic that trend will continue as more companies get in the game.

It's funny we think that commercial aviation is affordable, but according to Boeing:
Quote:
"Less than 20 percent of the world's population has ever taken a single flight, believe it or not. This year alone, 100 million people in Asia will fly for the first time."


How many of that 80% think that commercial aviation is for rich people?
The 20% aren't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 12:11 pm : link
just a factor of wealth. There are many reasons for air travel. There will only be a singular reason for space travel if it is to orbit the Earth and not go to a destination.

Furthermore, air travel isn't expensive - in fact, it is quite affordable.

The estimate that 80% of people have never flown comes from a lot of factors, including no need to ever travel a significant difference or doing so through other means. My Grandmother grew up in Italy and never flew on a plane. she came here by boat. Many people in certain countries never care to leave the country. Lack of wealth is probably significantly down on the list of reasons people don't travel by plane.
I don't know where this goes  
Jim in Forest Hills : 7/20/2021 12:19 pm : link
but if Bezos and Virgin can create a real competing model then more companies can get involved and R&D can go somewhere. I agree that if it stays niche, it'll just be a badge rich people can wear. Beyond whatever they say, I get the feeling its really two rich guys who have literally everything at their fingertips and now want legacy more than other things.

I personally think we should be able to do this and solve pressing issues at the same time, Bezos is not and should not be the resource we count on to solve the energy issue, climate change or cancer.
RE: RE: The point...  
dlauster : 7/20/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15308705 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308629 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


isn't if it will be possible for "common folk" to go into space - the point is why would that ever happen unless it was for a larger purpose of travel to a destination?

You really think this charade of joyrides to the edge of the atmosphere is going to continue?



Yes. We aren't going to colonize Mars or the moon anytime soon, so I think this type of toursim is the only viable option.

SpaceX is sending private citizens around the world in a couple of months. If their starship test is viable that gives a legitiamte path to tourism to the moon and back.

I think you will have many tiers of space tourism: Virgin Galactic as the 'cheapest' and then the Blue Origin/SpaceX model that will let you go higher into space, orbit the earth, or eventually land on the moon and come back.

I think the allure of space is strong since so few people have left the earth that people will pay money to do something that so few have done so far. It will be interesting to watch how the space toursim market matures; which in itself will drive space craft innovation.


Perhaps I've watched too many distopian sci fi movies, but I cannot help to think that this is the first step to a space station inhabited by the 1% when the Earth becomes uninhabitable.
Nah..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 12:45 pm : link
it will be "affordable" to travel through space, so we should be able to accommodate the top 50%, no?
RE: It's not going to happen overnight  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15308734 BH28 said:
Quote:
But when I look at how far we've come from early 1900s, from a transportation perspective, the amount of change innovation since then in such a short time of human existence is incredible.

I'm optimistic that trend will continue as more companies get in the game.

It's funny we think that commercial aviation is affordable, but according to Boeing:

Quote:


"Less than 20 percent of the world's population has ever taken a single flight, believe it or not. This year alone, 100 million people in Asia will fly for the first time."



How many of that 80% think that commercial aviation is for rich people?


You can be optimistic all you want. If you can't change the math from hundreds of thousands of pounds of fuel per person then it ain't happening. You'd need the kind of breakthrough that is not on the horizon.
RE: RE: It's not going to happen overnight  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15308758 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15308734 BH28 said:


Quote:


But when I look at how far we've come from early 1900s, from a transportation perspective, the amount of change innovation since then in such a short time of human existence is incredible.

I'm optimistic that trend will continue as more companies get in the game.

It's funny we think that commercial aviation is affordable, but according to Boeing:

Quote:


"Less than 20 percent of the world's population has ever taken a single flight, believe it or not. This year alone, 100 million people in Asia will fly for the first time."



How many of that 80% think that commercial aviation is for rich people?



You can be optimistic all you want. If you can't change the math from hundreds of thousands of pounds of fuel per person then it ain't happening. You'd need the kind of breakthrough that is not on the horizon.


No one is talking about tomorrow. It's certainly possible in the next 50 years or so. You think anyone in 1920 thought it was even possible to land on the moon?

When you expand your horizon to realize how quickly technology changes in a short period of time of humanity, it gives reason to be optimistic that new technologies will make the math pencil out.
$200m  
UConn4523 : 7/20/2021 1:12 pm : link
Was just awarded to charities after they landed, that’s worth pointing out. Bezos chose his words poorly in that quote above but he’s not solely focused on space exploration.
RE: The 20% aren't..  
Route 9 : 7/20/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15308738 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just a factor of wealth. There are many reasons for air travel. There will only be a singular reason for space travel if it is to orbit the Earth and not go to a destination.

Furthermore, air travel isn't expensive - in fact, it is quite affordable.

The estimate that 80% of people have never flown comes from a lot of factors, including no need to ever travel a significant difference or doing so through other means. My Grandmother grew up in Italy and never flew on a plane. she came here by boat. Many people in certain countries never care to leave the country. Lack of wealth is probably significantly down on the list of reasons people don't travel by plane.


Yeah. The first time I was on a plane in my life, I was 26. Never really had any urge to travel until I was 25.
RE: RE: RE: It's not going to happen overnight  
Heisenberg : 7/20/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15308762 BH28 said:
Quote:

No one is talking about tomorrow. It's certainly possible in the next 50 years or so. You think anyone in 1920 thought it was even possible to land on the moon?

When you expand your horizon to realize how quickly technology changes in a short period of time of humanity, it gives reason to be optimistic that new technologies will make the math pencil out.


I admire your optimism. Unfortunately, I don't share it.
As an aside, yes, people did think that a rocket could land on the moon. about 50 years later they were right. - ( New Window )
RE: The 20% aren't..  
BH28 : 7/20/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15308738 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just a factor of wealth. There are many reasons for air travel. There will only be a singular reason for space travel if it is to orbit the Earth and not go to a destination.

Furthermore, air travel isn't expensive - in fact, it is quite affordable.

The estimate that 80% of people have never flown comes from a lot of factors, including no need to ever travel a significant difference or doing so through other means. My Grandmother grew up in Italy and never flew on a plane. she came here by boat. Many people in certain countries never care to leave the country. Lack of wealth is probably significantly down on the list of reasons people don't travel by plane.


If the majority of people don't need to travel by plane, then the same would hold true for space. But people still do it and there is still a market for it. If commerical aviation is successful with 20% capture rate, space tourism can be as well with even less capture at more expensive rates.

There are entire industries built on commercial aviation tourism; site seeing helicopters in Hawaii, grand canyon, etc. This gives access to areas that are impossible to access from the ground or very challenging.

If the long term goal is to build a moon base or something like that, it's going to draw a large tourism faction. These commercial opportunities now allow for the industry to become safer and more generally acceptable for future generations.

Look how safe air travel is compared to is inception. Space travel would need to build that same confidence.

There is an entire computer game about traveling to Oregon in a covered wagon and not dying from dysentery, now it's not laughable that that was a thing. This is the first step to normalizing that same experience for space, IMO.

I'm not defending how Jeff spends his money, I'm taking a long view approach to it.
next step in space tourism  
giants#1 : 7/20/2021 1:54 pm : link
is either a moon base or a space station-like "hotel". Probably 2-3 decades away from either of those and yes, for the first decade+ they'll be solely for the 1%.

You'd likely need a launch vehicle that's >10x the size of the current vehicles before the price/person dropped considerably. Will it happen eventually? Absolutely, but I doubt anyone outside of the top 1% (maybe top 5% if they want to blow their savings) is venturing into space anytime in my life (I'm 37).
RE: RE: The 20% aren't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/20/2021 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15308775 BH28 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308738 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


just a factor of wealth. There are many reasons for air travel. There will only be a singular reason for space travel if it is to orbit the Earth and not go to a destination.

Furthermore, air travel isn't expensive - in fact, it is quite affordable.

The estimate that 80% of people have never flown comes from a lot of factors, including no need to ever travel a significant difference or doing so through other means. My Grandmother grew up in Italy and never flew on a plane. she came here by boat. Many people in certain countries never care to leave the country. Lack of wealth is probably significantly down on the list of reasons people don't travel by plane.



If the majority of people don't need to travel by plane, then the same would hold true for space. But people still do it and there is still a market for it. If commerical aviation is successful with 20% capture rate, space tourism can be as well with even less capture at more expensive rates.

There are entire industries built on commercial aviation tourism; site seeing helicopters in Hawaii, grand canyon, etc. This gives access to areas that are impossible to access from the ground or very challenging.

If the long term goal is to build a moon base or something like that, it's going to draw a large tourism faction. These commercial opportunities now allow for the industry to become safer and more generally acceptable for future generations.

Look how safe air travel is compared to is inception. Space travel would need to build that same confidence.

There is an entire computer game about traveling to Oregon in a covered wagon and not dying from dysentery, now it's not laughable that that was a thing. This is the first step to normalizing that same experience for space, IMO.

I'm not defending how Jeff spends his money, I'm taking a long view approach to it.


But you don't get it. Air travel isn't expensive. The 80% who have(assuming that total is accurate), represent a ton of people who are under the age of 12 who probably wouldn't have gone on a plane for most reasons. Cost isn't the deterrent to air travel. It really doesn't pertain to space travel at all.
......  
Klaatu : 7/20/2021 3:23 pm : link
The only way us common folk  
PwndPapi : 7/20/2021 4:37 pm : link
Will travel to space will be as Amazon fulfillment employees or Costco greeters on the Moon hub. Fuck Bezos.
Bezos and Co. don't give a shit about innovation...  
Kev in Cali : 7/20/2021 6:23 pm : link
Other than how to capitalize on a logistical deficiency for the wealthy and create a new market. The ongoing "space race" will be cool to follow, but sending people into orbit for the pure pleasure of a roller coaster ride serves no purpose in this world.

However, the technological input will hopefully make "regular" civilian aviation "folk" safer and more efficient. I do appreciate this aspect.

We've been parachuting/returning folks to earth for years. - ( New Window )
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/20/2021 7:05 pm : link
I get the whole 'It's his $, let him decide how he wants to spend it', but I wish he put that $ more towards stuff for the greater good of humanity instead of this. Then again, that's just my view.
RE: ...  
Route 9 : 7/20/2021 7:07 pm : link
In comment 15309034 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I get the whole 'It's his $, let him decide how he wants to spend it', but I wish he put that $ more towards stuff for the greater good of humanity instead of this. Then again, that's just my view.


Yeah. He should donate it to the "my pocket" foundation.
RE: RE: ...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/20/2021 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15309038 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15309034 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I get the whole 'It's his $, let him decide how he wants to spend it', but I wish he put that $ more towards stuff for the greater good of humanity instead of this. Then again, that's just my view.



Yeah. He should donate it to the "my pocket" foundation.


Mine too man. I'll take a cool $1 million from Mr. Bezos.
The newest rocket is being tested now  
Bricktop : 7/20/2021 7:13 pm : link
RE: RE: RE: ...  
BamaBlue : 7/20/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15309042 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15309038 Route 9 said:


Quote:


In comment 15309034 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


I get the whole 'It's his $, let him decide how he wants to spend it', but I wish he put that $ more towards stuff for the greater good of humanity instead of this. Then again, that's just my view.


Yeah. He should donate it to the "my pocket" foundation.

Mine too man. I'll take a cool $1 million from Mr. Bezos.


Money well spent...

I saw a clip of them on the news while there was zero gravity -  
Del Shofner : 7/20/2021 8:19 pm : link
I don't have any strong interest in going into space but gotta say that zero gravity looks like fun and I wouldn't mind experiencing that.
RE: I saw a clip of them on the news while there was zero gravity -  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/20/2021 8:23 pm : link
In comment 15309088 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
I don't have any strong interest in going into space but gotta say that zero gravity looks like fun and I wouldn't mind experiencing that.


How about sending Elfrid Payton to space? Permanently? Haha.
It's funny to me  
allstarjim : 7/20/2021 10:55 pm : link
The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.

RE: It's funny to me  
KDavies : 7/21/2021 8:20 am : link
In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.


Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less
RE: RE: It's funny to me  
giants#1 : 7/21/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15309295 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.




Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less


Like I said earlier, I have no issues with him spending his money on this stuff, but if you're comparing donations, perhaps doing so as a percentage of an individuals wealth would be more meaningful than absolute dollars...
RE: RE: It's funny to me  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/21/2021 8:26 am : link
In comment 15309295 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.




Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less


Yes, because we all have 9 figures in our banking accounts...
RE: It's funny to me  
giants#1 : 7/21/2021 8:30 am : link
In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:
Quote:
The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.


Generally speaking the government is wasteful/inefficient, but I guarantee the ROI from NASA/DARPA and some of the other advanced tech development programs is significantly positive. The GDP growth due to GPS and the internet alone is astronomical.
RE: RE: RE: I don't understand the opinion  
Stu11 : 7/21/2021 8:46 am : link
In comment 15308675 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15308645 bwitz said:


Quote:


So, it's ok when the government spends their money on space travel, but we expect private citizens to eradicate these social issues? Sorry, private citizens have the right to spend money however they want.

I'd settle for him treating his workers like human beings and paying an actual living wage. Thanks
RE: RE: It's funny to me  
Heisenberg : 7/21/2021 9:36 am : link
In comment 15309295 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.




Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less


Bezos donating a nine figure sum is like an average person donating a few hundred bucks.
RE: RE: RE: It's funny to me  
giants#1 : 7/21/2021 9:39 am : link
In comment 15309352 Heisenberg said:
Quote:



Bezos donating a nine figure sum is like an average person donating a few hundred bucks.


More like $60:

$100M is ~0.05% of Bezos' net worth. Median net worth for an American family is ~$120k.

120,000 * 0.0005 = $60
RE: RE: RE: RE: I don't understand the opinion  
dlauster : 7/21/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15309312 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15308675 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15308645 bwitz said:


Quote:


So, it's ok when the government spends their money on space travel, but we expect private citizens to eradicate these social issues? Sorry, private citizens have the right to spend money however they want.


I'd settle for him treating his workers like human beings and paying an actual living wage. Thanks


Word!
RE: RE: RE: It's funny to me  
KDavies : 7/21/2021 10:57 am : link
In comment 15309352 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 15309295 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.




Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less



Bezos donating a nine figure sum is like an average person donating a few hundred bucks.


Good lord. Since this was about people complaining about Bezos' impact on humanity (since apparently a single private citizen is responsible for all of humanity), what do you think makes a greater impact on humanity? $200 million in charitable contributions or a couple hundred bucks? Has anyone remotely implied that Bezos is financially pressed after donating $200 million?
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny to me  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/21/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15309415 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15309352 Heisenberg said:


Quote:



Good lord. Since this was about people complaining about Bezos' impact on humanity (since apparently a single private citizen is responsible for all of humanity), what do you think makes a greater impact on humanity? $200 million in charitable contributions or a couple hundred bucks? Has anyone remotely implied that Bezos is financially pressed after donating $200 million?


What about his absolutely brutal warehouse conditions? I actually know a few warehouse workers and even in the poorer areas, none of them started as low as 15 an hour and all received raises over time. Bezos model is to burn you out for 3 years, that's a verifiable fact. Allowing massive corporations like Amazon allows for him to squeeze out the competition with economies of scale. Not to mention the lobbying dollars that buy him certain advantages.

To get to the point where Bezos is at you need to be a less than savory character, turn a blind eye to certain things. The sad part is Bezos is only a small figure in the grand scheme of things, he's just the most well known. It's a big club, and you aint it. I will never understand people simping for Billionaires. These are rarely the most well adjusted people. The further you go up the chain, the more sociopaths are abound (another verifiable fact). These are dudes that are highest up the chain. At least the last time income inequality was this level in the 20s Billionaire vanity projects would actually benefit society.
I've found that the indignation stops  
widmerseyebrow : 7/21/2021 12:00 pm : link
when people are asked if they would consider simply not using these products and services (Facebook, Amazon, etc.).
RE: RE: RE: RE: It's funny to me  
Heisenberg : 7/21/2021 12:04 pm : link
In comment 15309415 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15309352 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


In comment 15309295 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15309217 allstarjim said:


Quote:


The criticisms of this private expenditure into space when rarely, if ever meaningfully, the criticisms were levied against tax dollars to be spent over decades in space travel and exploration. A lot of good has come from the space program, without doubt, but the opportunity cost of those dollars being spent on more altruistic present endeavors was never part of the national conscience. People love to villify billionaires, but rarely use the same critical eye towards their government, which wastes 100s of billions, to put it lightly, on frivolous endeavors.

Any fair examination of an annual national budget should make a fair-minded individual puke.




Exactly. Bezos just donated a 9 figure sum. I’d like to see how much those ripping him have donated in their entire lives as well. I’m guessing it’s significantly less



Bezos donating a nine figure sum is like an average person donating a few hundred bucks.



Good lord. Since this was about people complaining about Bezos' impact on humanity (since apparently a single private citizen is responsible for all of humanity), what do you think makes a greater impact on humanity? $200 million in charitable contributions or a couple hundred bucks? Has anyone remotely implied that Bezos is financially pressed after donating $200 million?


Reminder: Bezos nominated himself to be savior of society, not me. And you suggested that average folks haven't matched his generosity, not me. If you want to continue to insist that this billionaire is a hero of some sort, fine. But don't be surprised or offended (weirdly, I might add) if most folks see a guy who hacked the economy to build preposterous wealth he mostly has directed to space-sturbation.
RE: I've found that the indignation stops  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/21/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15309456 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
when people are asked if they would consider simply not using these products and services (Facebook, Amazon, etc.).


I feel like young people are very conscious buyers today. It's the older generation reticent to sacrifice imo. ESG scores are becoming very important today (which are problematic on their own)Even going back a decade I was being taught all this getting my finance degree and its certainly ratcheted up a notch since then.
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