Neil Stratton
@InsideTheLeague
Text from an #NFL scouting friend (cc:
@NFLPA
): "Position coaches are calling players and in a nice way threatening that if not vaccinated they could get cut."
Vaccinated people can still get it. A co-worker of mine had Pfizer and still got it — she's been very sick for a week but nowhere near needing hospitalization.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
RE: The vaccine is not 100% protective against infection.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
Then you a) get hospitalized if you have serious symptoms, or, more likely, b) self isolate with minor to no symptoms. Just like anyone. What else would you expect to happen?
RE: The vaccine is not 100% protective against infection.
Vaccinated people can still get it. A co-worker of mine had Pfizer and still got it — she's been very sick for a week but nowhere near needing hospitalization.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
You play the odds and maximize the possible outcomes. Life is unfair. Fringe players get cut all the time for less than major injuries.
if your a PS type player that could be cut at anytime being vacibated would make it easier to catch on with another team. Not having to isolate you could step right jnto anotber teams building.
If your looking to sign a RB off the street cause you has 2 guys hurt in one week your probably signing the one who can practice that day
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
It was one or at most 2. Urshela already missed a day or two with side effects from the vaccine and all 3 relief pitchers were reported as vaccinated when the story broke. So, that leaves Judge and Higashioka.
Especially, in football, where the unvaccinated players essentially can't participate in full practice or meetings. If you want a real camp, you need all players available.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams need to get the percentage up
because then a positive case wouldn't have to be treated with the mandatory time away + games missed. Can't really enact that without 100% compliance though so its definitely wishful thinking.
Have the rules around what happens for a positive case been changed?
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Then what is the reason significantly increase your chances of throwing away your one shot at making the NFL and making a lot of money? Unless they have a medical issue, there is not good reason. Take the fucking shot and take your shot at making the team.
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested: Link - ( New Window )
At a higher risk of transmitting the virus if you are unvaccinated. So if the choice is between a fringe player who is vaccinated and unlikely going to impact the health of teammates and someone who isn’t and could disrupt the performance of the team, it’s logical to choose the vaccinated player if their skill sets are similar.
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Then what is the reason significantly increase your chances of throwing away your one shot at making the NFL and making a lot of money? Unless they have a medical issue, there is not good reason. Take the fucking shot and take your shot at making the team.
This thread will end up deleted like the rest of them if we go down this road.
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested: Link - ( New Window )
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
Vaccinated people can still get it. A co-worker of mine had Pfizer and still got it — she's been very sick for a week but nowhere near needing hospitalization.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
You thank the NFL team for pressuring you to get vaccinated since it likely reduced the severity by an order of magnitude.
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
I didn't come up with the percentages, those were the percentages provided in the information provided from the state. But I can see how could consider the percentages misleading.
Regardless, I was just providing information another poster asked about.
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams need to get the percentage up
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
Ignorance and stupidity are the only two choices.
Suspicion could also be a factor. Certain groups have historical mistrust due to past disgraceful medical experiments.
That argument is totally illogical. In those past incidents, specific groups were used to "test" something. This vaccine is being given to everyone.
Illogical behavior runs rampant with ignorant people. You would think the "almighty dollar" would trump that for NFL players but yet ignorance still holds its own in many cases...
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
That's also what feeds into some of the discussion about miscommunication. The J&J vaccine appears to have tradeoffs for one dose. It doesn't appear to be as effective against other strains. It also was halted for a period of time due to side effects.
The average person believes all of the vaccines are similar. Put out incomplete information and there will be some people who will have trust issues
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
I didn't come up with the percentages, those were the percentages provided in the information provided from the state. But I can see how could consider the percentages misleading.
Regardless, I was just providing information another poster asked about.
I understand, but doesn't it seem like it is misinformation from the state to make those effectiveness claims based on just those numbers for breakthrough cases? It is very irresponsible in that it could give vaccinated individuals more confidence than justified which could actually help spread covid. People may also quote just the effectiveness numbers without the context that shows them being misleading.
If society is going after misinformation to help make sure people have access to proper facts it would be nice if the government wasn't being misleading themselves.
i'd keep in mind that we are just people on a message board
we have no idea the level of conversations these players are having with coaching staffs and their union reps. We have almost no context at all.
That's pretty much true for most things we all argue about but in this particular case it very complex, IMO. A tweet here or there doesn't speak for each team and they also might not be 100% factual either.
RE: The vaccine is not 100% protective against infection.
Vaccinated people can still get it. A co-worker of mine had Pfizer and still got it — she's been very sick for a week but nowhere near needing hospitalization.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested: Link - ( New Window )
Curious if there is a comparison between the numbers in non-vaccinated people? The CDC site doesn't show it. I read a few stories which said that 99% or even a hundred percent of the people dying of COVID in the states mentioned in the stories were not vaccinated.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams need to get the percentage up
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
I think it is misinformation. Remember all the stuff last summer about how the vaccine is being rushed?
Fear is more powerful than reason. Once you scare people about something like the vaccine it is hard to get them to
Listen to reason.
Agree. I was talking to some people even today, and you wouldn't believe some of the things that they believe. (One person has a daughter who just gave birth and won't get vaccinated for fear that they vaccine will travel through the breast milk and hurt the baby; truth is, if you have a newborn, they very *best* thing you can do to protect them is to get vaccinated. The only thing that travels through breast milk, related to covid, is protective antibodies. In fact, that's how infants get much of their early immunity and why nursing is pushed heavily in underdeveloped countries).
And, the problem is, you can find anything you want on the internet. So people disregard the 99.99999% of information all saying the same thing - that the vaccines are safe and effective - and cling to the .00001% of material (generally published by some wacko advocacy group) which validates what they wanted to believe in the first place.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Teams need to get the percentage up
like athletes, are getting tested constantly. So, even if you're vaccinated, you might test positive because the test catches you at a point where the virus comes in but the immune system has not yet eliminated it, even though ordinarily you would appear virus free. (Even in an immune person, pathogens aren't eliminated instantly). We hear that athletes test positive, but not often do we hear context (whether they are even a little bit sick, when their last negative test was, whether there is a follow-up test and its result). But, one positive, and bam, you go into protocol.
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
That's also what feeds into some of the discussion about miscommunication. The J&J vaccine appears to have tradeoffs for one dose. It doesn't appear to be as effective against other strains. It also was halted for a period of time due to side effects.
The average person believes all of the vaccines are similar. Put out incomplete information and there will be some people who will have trust issues
To your point, I think the communication on vaccines has been atrocious. For example, the vaccines have proven to be remarkably effective in preventing death and hospitalizations - the communication should have been focused on that and not efficacy rates.
I had worse side effects post vaccination than I felt I was 'warned' about, including a random racing heart for ~2 weeks post second shot (something I've heard others have experienced as well). These things weren't big deals, but I felt some of these details were conveniently left out.
So if you’re an NFL player and you’re not vaccinated, the odds you will have it and expose the team during the season are incredibly high.
Why would a club take the risk?
That's a reasonable view. And it doesn't even take into account the fact that players who are vaccinated have different rules applied to them, and teams that reach a vaccination threshold have different rules applied to them, too.
Why would any team carry a fringe player who refuses to do something that benefits himself, his teammates, his organization, and his community?
Do some of you argue with your local school systems
I don’t care either way. Pro vaxers who think they know everything don’t and anti vaxers who think they everything don’t. The truth is likely in between. I don’t trust the government or big pharma but that’s my personal conviction based on what I know. I know not being vaccinated puts you and the people you contact at risk and I know a lot of people who are vaccinated still get it. I also know there are a lot of people who have major complications from the vaccine. My sister is one of them. She spent a week in ICU and almost died due to a dozen blood clots in her lungs that were related to the vaccine. I have BP issues and my doctor advises against it. Many other people in my family have been vaccinated with no side affects. As it is related to the NFL I thinks it is totally reasonable to expect players to be vaccinated. Where it’s gets tricky is cutting a fringe player for it if your stars are not vaccinated. I can see that being a legal issue.
You know A LOT of people that are vaccinated and still get it?
I don’t care either way. Pro vaxers who think they know everything don’t and anti vaxers who think they everything don’t. The truth is likely in between. I don’t trust the government or big pharma but that’s my personal conviction based on what I know. I know not being vaccinated puts you and the people you contact at risk and I know a lot of people who are vaccinated still get it. I also know there are a lot of people who have major complications from the vaccine. My sister is one of them. She spent a week in ICU and almost died due to a dozen blood clots in her lungs that were related to the vaccine. I have BP issues and my doctor advises against it. Many other people in my family have been vaccinated with no side affects. As it is related to the NFL I thinks it is totally reasonable to expect players to be vaccinated. Where it’s gets tricky is cutting a fringe player for it if your stars are not vaccinated. I can see that being a legal issue.
I just saw yout profile. BamaBish is a great guy, Met him about 20 years ago on a business trip to Birmingham. He had two tickets to a state high school girls basketball tournament and we watched a couple of games together. I wonder why he stopped posting a number of years back.
I don’t care either way. Pro vaxers who think they know everything don’t and anti vaxers who think they everything don’t. The truth is likely in between. I don’t trust the government or big pharma but that’s my personal conviction based on what I know. I know not being vaccinated puts you and the people you contact at risk and I know a lot of people who are vaccinated still get it. I also know there are a lot of people who have major complications from the vaccine. My sister is one of them. She spent a week in ICU and almost died due to a dozen blood clots in her lungs that were related to the vaccine. I have BP issues and my doctor advises against it. Many other people in my family have been vaccinated with no side affects. As it is related to the NFL I thinks it is totally reasonable to expect players to be vaccinated. Where it’s gets tricky is cutting a fringe player for it if your stars are not vaccinated. I can see that being a legal issue.
These are not co-equal arguments (pro- and anti-). It’s more akin to Evolutionists versus Creationists.
Mediocre, at-will employees are not a protected class. Neither are people who refuse vaccination. What would be the basis of any litigation? "They waived me because I'm not as good as Leonard Williams!" That's sort of how the business works.
RE: CV36: How could that possibly be a legal issue?
Mediocre, at-will employees are not a protected class. Neither are people who refuse vaccination. What would be the basis of any litigation? "They waived me because I'm not as good as Leonard Williams!" That's sort of how the business works.
The potential is there for a class action lawsuit against the league for creating an unequal playing field that gave vaccinated players a huge advantage over unvaccinated players when it came to pursuing employment in the league. I'm not a lawyer, so maybe the CBA protects them from that. I just think an argument can be made if someone can make it a discrimination issue.
I have a hard time seeing how any court would find that
The potential is there for a class action lawsuit against the league for creating an unequal playing field that gave vaccinated players a huge advantage over unvaccinated players when it came to pursuing employment in the league. I'm not a lawyer, so maybe the CBA protects them from that. I just think an argument can be made if someone can make it a discrimination issue.
Courts have already found that businesses can flat out refuse to employ unvaccinated individuals, so simply making it harder for the unvaccinated seems on solid ground. That said, until the highest court in the land weighs in, anything is subject to challenge.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
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Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
Quote:
ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
Quote:
In comment 15309518 Milton said:
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
Ignorance and stupidity are the only two choices.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
Then you a) get hospitalized if you have serious symptoms, or, more likely, b) self isolate with minor to no symptoms. Just like anyone. What else would you expect to happen?
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
If your looking to sign a RB off the street cause you has 2 guys hurt in one week your probably signing the one who can practice that day
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In comment 15309520 Big Blue Blogger said:
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ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
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In comment 15309522 Mellowmood92 said:
Quote:
In comment 15309520 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
Quote:
ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
Quote:
In comment 15309525 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309518 Milton said:
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
Ignorance and stupidity are the only two choices.
Suspicion could also be a factor. Certain groups have historical mistrust due to past disgraceful medical experiments.
That argument is totally illogical. In those past incidents, specific groups were used to "test" something. This vaccine is being given to everyone.
Have the rules around what happens for a positive case been changed?
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Then what is the reason significantly increase your chances of throwing away your one shot at making the NFL and making a lot of money? Unless they have a medical issue, there is not good reason. Take the fucking shot and take your shot at making the team.
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In comment 15309527 Big Al said:
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In comment 15309522 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309520 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested:
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Then what is the reason significantly increase your chances of throwing away your one shot at making the NFL and making a lot of money? Unless they have a medical issue, there is not good reason. Take the fucking shot and take your shot at making the team.
This thread will end up deleted like the rest of them if we go down this road.
MLB, and now the NFL, reduce restrictions for teams that reach a vaccination level of 85%.
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In comment 15309545 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309527 Big Al said:
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In comment 15309522 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309520 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested: Link - ( New Window )
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
Quote:
In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
I think it is misinformation. Remember all the stuff last summer about how the vaccine is being rushed?
Fear is more powerful than reason. Once you scare people about something like the vaccine it is hard to get them to
Listen to reason.
Quote:
In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
I think it is misinformation. Remember all the stuff last summer about how the vaccine is being rushed?
Fear is more powerful than reason. Once you scare people about something like the vaccine it is hard to get them to
Listen to reason.
This is true, there are places on the internet and large forums when so much misinformation is being passed around. The stuff you see is crazy.
Having said that, I am also reluctant to get the vaccine and am holding out, I will eventually get it I think, maybe.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
You thank the NFL team for pressuring you to get vaccinated since it likely reduced the severity by an order of magnitude.
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In comment 15309561 Big Al said:
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In comment 15309545 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309527 Big Al said:
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
I didn't come up with the percentages, those were the percentages provided in the information provided from the state. But I can see how could consider the percentages misleading.
Regardless, I was just providing information another poster asked about.
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
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In comment 15309526 Milton said:
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In comment 15309525 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309518 Milton said:
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
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Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
Nope
Ignorance and stupidity are the only two choices.
Suspicion could also be a factor. Certain groups have historical mistrust due to past disgraceful medical experiments.
That argument is totally illogical. In those past incidents, specific groups were used to "test" something. This vaccine is being given to everyone.
Illogical behavior runs rampant with ignorant people. You would think the "almighty dollar" would trump that for NFL players but yet ignorance still holds its own in many cases...
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I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
That's also what feeds into some of the discussion about miscommunication. The J&J vaccine appears to have tradeoffs for one dose. It doesn't appear to be as effective against other strains. It also was halted for a period of time due to side effects.
The average person believes all of the vaccines are similar. Put out incomplete information and there will be some people who will have trust issues
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In comment 15309573 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309561 Big Al said:
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In comment 15309545 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309527 Big Al said:
How can you arrive at those effective percentages? Did every vaccinated person come in contact with covid? Did every unvaccinated person catch covid?
I didn't come up with the percentages, those were the percentages provided in the information provided from the state. But I can see how could consider the percentages misleading.
Regardless, I was just providing information another poster asked about.
I understand, but doesn't it seem like it is misinformation from the state to make those effectiveness claims based on just those numbers for breakthrough cases? It is very irresponsible in that it could give vaccinated individuals more confidence than justified which could actually help spread covid. People may also quote just the effectiveness numbers without the context that shows them being misleading.
If society is going after misinformation to help make sure people have access to proper facts it would be nice if the government wasn't being misleading themselves.
That's pretty much true for most things we all argue about but in this particular case it very complex, IMO. A tweet here or there doesn't speak for each team and they also might not be 100% factual either.
So while there's a case to be made for employer vaccination mandates, vaccine requirements are not going to prevent players getting the virus.
If you're a fringe player and you are vaccinated, and you test positive or get sick, what then?
Yeah but if *everyone* go vaccinated...
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In comment 15309545 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309527 Big Al said:
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In comment 15309522 Mellowmood92 said:
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In comment 15309520 Big Blue Blogger said:
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ZogZerg said:
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Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
I am not quite sure what those numbers show.
Just that the target vaccination rate for NFL teams is 70 or 75% I believe, and even at 85% the Yankees still had an outbreak where they're losing 2 key starters for about 2 weeks. So why would teams take a chance on an unvaccinated practice squad or fringe player?
I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
I'm with you. Just trying to present some unbiased, relatable information. I was curious about the breakthrough cases myself and live in NJ. Murphy just put out information on Monday about it. Through the end of June about 4.4M NJ residents are fully vaccinated and there have been 3,474 breakthrough cases (99.92% effective), 84 hospitalizations (99.998%) and 31 deaths (99.9993%).
Other states are showing similar numbers - Maryland and Louisiana for example are two that I've seen.
The CDC has also put out some information if you're interested: Link - ( New Window )
Curious if there is a comparison between the numbers in non-vaccinated people? The CDC site doesn't show it. I read a few stories which said that 99% or even a hundred percent of the people dying of COVID in the states mentioned in the stories were not vaccinated.
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
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Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
I think it is misinformation. Remember all the stuff last summer about how the vaccine is being rushed?
Fear is more powerful than reason. Once you scare people about something like the vaccine it is hard to get them to
Listen to reason.
Agree. I was talking to some people even today, and you wouldn't believe some of the things that they believe. (One person has a daughter who just gave birth and won't get vaccinated for fear that they vaccine will travel through the breast milk and hurt the baby; truth is, if you have a newborn, they very *best* thing you can do to protect them is to get vaccinated. The only thing that travels through breast milk, related to covid, is protective antibodies. In fact, that's how infants get much of their early immunity and why nursing is pushed heavily in underdeveloped countries).
And, the problem is, you can find anything you want on the internet. So people disregard the 99.99999% of information all saying the same thing - that the vaccines are safe and effective - and cling to the .00001% of material (generally published by some wacko advocacy group) which validates what they wanted to believe in the first place.
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In comment 15309518 Milton said:
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In comment 15309515 UConn4523 said:
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In comment 15309506 ZogZerg said:
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Fringe players are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
I don't think bad advice is the reason.
Do you think it's just plain stupidity?
I think it is misinformation. Remember all the stuff last summer about how the vaccine is being rushed?
Fear is more powerful than reason. Once you scare people about something like the vaccine it is hard to get them to
Listen to reason.
This is true, there are places on the internet and large forums when so much misinformation is being passed around. The stuff you see is crazy.
Having said that, I am also reluctant to get the vaccine and am holding out, I will eventually get it I think, maybe.
Can I help you, assuage concerns, answer questions, whatever?
Can I help you? Answer questions and concerns? Provide information?
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In comment 15309561 Big Al said:
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I was unaware that sports teams had a target vaccination rate. My preference would be 100 percent but I would stay away from that discussion here. Also I have to admit that I am confused about what is happening. Vaccinated people seem to be getting covid positive more than I expected. We need more study.
Most of the Yankees opted for the J&J vaccine which is only ~70% effective at preventing COVID (lower against more recent strains) but >95% effective at preventing severe illness. Further, most of the Yankees were asymptomatic but due to the testing procedures in place they tested positive.
That's also what feeds into some of the discussion about miscommunication. The J&J vaccine appears to have tradeoffs for one dose. It doesn't appear to be as effective against other strains. It also was halted for a period of time due to side effects.
The average person believes all of the vaccines are similar. Put out incomplete information and there will be some people who will have trust issues
To your point, I think the communication on vaccines has been atrocious. For example, the vaccines have proven to be remarkably effective in preventing death and hospitalizations - the communication should have been focused on that and not efficacy rates.
I had worse side effects post vaccination than I felt I was 'warned' about, including a random racing heart for ~2 weeks post second shot (something I've heard others have experienced as well). These things weren't big deals, but I felt some of these details were conveniently left out.
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ZogZerg said:
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Fringe playersPeople are getting bad advice if they aren't already vaccinated.
Considering the stakes, it makes no sense for teams to take COVID risk for replacement-level players.
Yup - Yankees were at 85% vaccinated and look what happened. Reports say at least 1 of the 6 was unvaccinated.
But they were all vaccinated with the J&J shot, which has less efficacy.
So if you’re an NFL player and you’re not vaccinated, the odds you will have it and expose the team during the season are incredibly high.
Why would a club take the risk?
So if you’re an NFL player and you’re not vaccinated, the odds you will have it and expose the team during the season are incredibly high.
Why would a club take the risk?
That's a reasonable view. And it doesn't even take into account the fact that players who are vaccinated have different rules applied to them, and teams that reach a vaccination threshold have different rules applied to them, too.
Why would any team carry a fringe player who refuses to do something that benefits himself, his teammates, his organization, and his community?
I assume so based on these continued push back comments I read here. Or is this vaccine different somehow?
If so, do you win that argument or do you just home school them?
You don't trust the government in simply RECOMMENDING a vaccine...why?
These are not co-equal arguments (pro- and anti-). It’s more akin to Evolutionists versus Creationists.
Courts have already found that businesses can flat out refuse to employ unvaccinated individuals, so simply making it harder for the unvaccinated seems on solid ground. That said, until the highest court in the land weighs in, anything is subject to challenge.