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NFT: Eagles / Giants fan argument turns deadly

US1 Giants : 7/22/2021 2:59 pm
at Pat's King of Steaks in Philly

Quote:
“They were arguing and it turned into a fight,” Francano said. “One guy grabbed the other guy and got him in a grip, and the other guy pulled out a gun and shot him in the torso.



Link - ( New Window )
so which one pulled the gun?  
KDavies : 7/22/2021 3:27 pm : link
I need to know whether to be mad that the Eagles fan took it too far, or at least happy the Giants fan was victorious
….  
tyrik13 : 7/22/2021 3:28 pm : link
I wonder if the person shot was the Giants fan
was it this guy  
Pork Chop : 7/22/2021 3:32 pm : link
The shooter, who's been arrested,  
Mad Mike : 7/22/2021 3:35 pm : link
is an Eagles fan, and the victim was supposedly a Giants fan.
RE: The shooter, who's been arrested,  
AJ23 : 7/22/2021 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15310410 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
is an Eagles fan, and the victim was supposedly a Giants fan.
That's blood on Doug Pederson's hands
Giants fan was shot and killed.  
BigBlueNH : 7/22/2021 6:07 pm : link
Pretty sad. Hope the shooter pays with a long sentence.
How fucked up?  
trueblueinpw : 7/22/2021 6:14 pm : link
Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.
I'm sure Philly sports radio  
beatrixkiddo : 7/22/2021 6:18 pm : link
is cheering on the Philly fan, they are probably engraving a trophy for the guy as we speak.
Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
steve in ky : 7/22/2021 8:01 pm : link
What a waste, far too young.
RE: How fucked up?  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/22/2021 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15310663 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.



To be fair, the dude that got shot is the one that took it physical. Never a good idea.
RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/22/2021 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:
Quote:
What a waste, far too young.


I hate the Eagles with the fire of a thousand suns, but killing a man-a son, a father, a husband, etc.-over sports? So fucking stupid.
I had to stop going to Mets games...  
moze1021 : 7/22/2021 8:29 pm : link
In Philly during the '07-08 seasons...

People yelling vulgarities and pushing me around just for wearing a Mets hat, even with keeping my mouth shut... Mostly because when Phillies are good, the drinking Eagles fans come out... When Phillies aren't good, it's no problem
RE: RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/22/2021 8:49 pm : link
In comment 15310744 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:


Quote:


What a waste, far too young.



I hate the Eagles with the fire of a thousand suns, but killing a man-a son, a father, a husband, etc.-over sports? So fucking stupid.


He didn't kill him over sports though. He killed him because the other dude made it physical. Dying over your favorite sports team takes new meaning to a diehard fan.
Never bring a headlock  
Bill in UT : 7/22/2021 8:54 pm : link
to a gun fight
.  
crick n NC : 7/22/2021 9:09 pm : link
LOL Bill
......  
Route 9 : 7/22/2021 9:15 pm : link
Yeah killing someone over sports is completely absurd.

Anything else like an affair with another one's spouse or someone's banana bread being stolen, yeah, that's when a life being taken is actually justified! That's the template.
RE: RE: How fucked up?  
BigBlueShock : 7/22/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15310743 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15310663 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.




To be fair, the dude that got shot is the one that took it physical. Never a good idea.

To be fair? Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit. One guy puts the other in a headlock during a fight so the other piece of shit pulls a gun and shoots him? He’s a fucking pussy and a coward. Nothing “fair” about that at all. It’s despicable that you’re even trying to explain it away like that.
RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
Les in TO : 7/22/2021 9:27 pm : link
In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:
Quote:
What a waste, far too young.
Fist fights happen every Sunday in every NFL stadium.
RE: RE: How fucked up?  
Eman11 : 7/22/2021 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15310743 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15310663 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.




To be fair, the dude that got shot is the one that took it physical. Never a good idea.


How do you know that? The Eagle fan could very well have started the physical part and got headlocked during it. Then pussied up and shot a gun because he got himself into something he couldn’t handle.

From all the articles I read, nowhere did it say who got physical first. Only that is escalated from an argument to a physical altercation, with the Eagle fan getting put into a headlock, and shooting his way out of it.
RE: RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
steve in ky : 7/22/2021 9:47 pm : link
In comment 15310793 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:


Quote:


What a waste, far too young.

Fist fights happen every Sunday in every NFL stadium.


So what, does that make it normal acceptable adult behavior? I was in plenty of fights as a boy, and even into my teens on a rare occasion, but to engage in fighting as an adult is beyond dumb. Just walk away.
RE: RE: RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
Les in TO : 7/22/2021 9:51 pm : link
In comment 15310804 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 15310793 Les in TO said:


Quote:


In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:


Quote:


What a waste, far too young.

Fist fights happen every Sunday in every NFL stadium.



So what, does that make it normal acceptable adult behavior? I was in plenty of fights as a boy, and even into my teens on a rare occasion, but to engage in fighting as an adult is beyond dumb. Just walk away.
Fully agree that it is unacceptable. Just pointing out it’s all too common. I’m going to go out on a limb that alcohol was involved given this was at 1am at a cheesesteak joint and there was a violent encounter between fans of different teams
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why in the world would any adult fight about a team, or sport?  
steve in ky : 7/22/2021 9:53 pm : link
In comment 15310807 Les in TO said:
Quote:
In comment 15310804 steve in ky said:


Quote:


In comment 15310793 Les in TO said:


Quote:


In comment 15310739 steve in ky said:


Quote:


What a waste, far too young.

Fist fights happen every Sunday in every NFL stadium.



So what, does that make it normal acceptable adult behavior? I was in plenty of fights as a boy, and even into my teens on a rare occasion, but to engage in fighting as an adult is beyond dumb. Just walk away.

Fully agree that it is unacceptable. Just pointing out it’s all too common. I’m going to go out on a limb that alcohol was involved given this was at 1am at a cheesesteak joint and there was a violent encounter between fans of different teams


That's probably a good bet.
RE: RE: How fucked up?  
Bricktop : 7/22/2021 9:59 pm : link
In comment 15310743 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15310663 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.




To be fair, the dude that got shot is the one that took it physical. Never a good idea.


He put him in a headlock so he gets killed? That's your reasoning?

You've got some really weird takes. Like really fuckin weird.

What was your previous handle? I'm sure some of us will guess correctly. But just let us know anyways. You sound very familiar.
Just awful.  
bwitz : 7/22/2021 10:09 pm : link
Reminds me of John Witherspoon’s speech to Ice Cube in Friday

“… You kids today are nothin' but punks. Sissified. So quick to pick up a gun. You're scared to take an ass-whippin'. This is what makes you a man. When I was growin' up, this was all the protection we needed. You win some, you lose some, but you live. You live to fight another day…”
......  
Route 9 : 7/22/2021 10:43 pm : link
People fight and kill each other over dumb shit on the daily.

Wasn't there just a Pennsylvania couple this past winter killed because of a dispute to do with snow? SNOW!
RE: Just awful.  
Route 9 : 7/22/2021 10:45 pm : link
In comment 15310822 bwitz said:
Quote:
Reminds me of John Witherspoon’s speech to Ice Cube in Friday

“… You kids today are nothin' but punks. Sissified. So quick to pick up a gun. You're scared to take an ass-whippin'. This is what makes you a man. When I was growin' up, this was all the protection we needed. You win some, you lose some, but you live. You live to fight another day…”


Then Craig winds up throwing a brick at Deebo's head. So much for that minor inconsistency.
Well…  
bwitz : 7/22/2021 11:25 pm : link
That’s on Craig.
Happened at 1 a.m.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 7/23/2021 7:26 am : link
Wonder if booze was a factor here. It is not as big in the media but Philly has gone over 310 murders in a city with a population of 1.5 million. That is more than NYC which has over 4 times the pop.

bwitz; that is quite a quote and true.
RE: Happened at 1 a.m.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/23/2021 7:31 am : link
In comment 15310950 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Wonder if booze was a factor here. It is not as big in the media but Philly has gone over 310 murders in a city with a population of 1.5 million. That is more than NYC which has over 4 times the pop.

bwitz; that is quite a quote and true.


I would think alcohol was involved. And, as the old saying goes, nothing good happens after midnight.
Both these guys are assholes that much is clear.  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 8:51 am : link
Anytime you escalate, it has potential to go off the rails. I hate gun culture as much as anyone, but some of you need to get out of your northeast bubble.

I’m some states, this would go under the fuck around and find out clause. People are crazy so maybe you shouldn’t go around fighting strangers for no reason. Idk, didn’t realize that was a hot take.

I mean it isn’t unheard of to get fucked up permanently or dying in your run of the mill street fight. Why should that dude put up with that because some dick wanted to fight? This is what happens when you escalate. Bad shit, and any normal non asshole just walks away from the situation.
So, Pat’s or Geno’s?  
VinegarPeppers : 7/23/2021 8:55 am : link
Too soon?
senseless tragedy  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/23/2021 9:03 am : link
because two idiots had too much pride and too little shame.
RE: Both these guys are assholes that much is clear.  
Eman11 : 7/23/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15310998 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Anytime you escalate, it has potential to go off the rails. I hate gun culture as much as anyone, but some of you need to get out of your northeast bubble.

I’m some states, this would go under the fuck around and find out clause. People are crazy so maybe you shouldn’t go around fighting strangers for no reason. Idk, didn’t realize that was a hot take.

I mean it isn’t unheard of to get fucked up permanently or dying in your run of the mill street fight. Why should that dude put up with that because some dick wanted to fight? This is what happens when you escalate. Bad shit, and any normal non asshole just walks away from the situation.


Again, how do you know any of that? You’re making assumptions with no evidence. It’s quite possible one of them tried to walk away but unless you were there, I don’t see how you can say they fought for no reason.

Maybe they argued football and it escalated but the Giant fan was defending himself with the headlock trying to calm the Philly fan down. Maybe he wasn’t throwing any punches. See, I can make assumptions too but until all the facts come out it makes no sense to.
RE: RE: Both these guys are assholes that much is clear.  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 9:37 am : link
In comment 15311056 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 15310998 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Anytime you escalate, it has potential to go off the rails. I hate gun culture as much as anyone, but some of you need to get out of your northeast bubble.

I’m some states, this would go under the fuck around and find out clause. People are crazy so maybe you shouldn’t go around fighting strangers for no reason. Idk, didn’t realize that was a hot take.

I mean it isn’t unheard of to get fucked up permanently or dying in your run of the mill street fight. Why should that dude put up with that because some dick wanted to fight? This is what happens when you escalate. Bad shit, and any normal non asshole just walks away from the situation.



Again, how do you know any of that? You’re making assumptions with no evidence. It’s quite possible one of them tried to walk away but unless you were there, I don’t see how you can say they fought for no reason.

Maybe they argued football and it escalated but the Giant fan was defending himself with the headlock trying to calm the Philly fan down. Maybe he wasn’t throwing any punches. See, I can make assumptions too but until all the facts come out it makes no sense to.


Because I read the article and that’s what the GM of Pats said?
RE: RE: RE: Both these guys are assholes that much is clear.  
Eman11 : 7/23/2021 9:47 am : link
In comment 15311058 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15311056 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 15310998 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


Anytime you escalate, it has potential to go off the rails. I hate gun culture as much as anyone, but some of you need to get out of your northeast bubble.

I’m some states, this would go under the fuck around and find out clause. People are crazy so maybe you shouldn’t go around fighting strangers for no reason. Idk, didn’t realize that was a hot take.

I mean it isn’t unheard of to get fucked up permanently or dying in your run of the mill street fight. Why should that dude put up with that because some dick wanted to fight? This is what happens when you escalate. Bad shit, and any normal non asshole just walks away from the situation.



Again, how do you know any of that? You’re making assumptions with no evidence. It’s quite possible one of them tried to walk away but unless you were there, I don’t see how you can say they fought for no reason.

Maybe they argued football and it escalated but the Giant fan was defending himself with the headlock trying to calm the Philly fan down. Maybe he wasn’t throwing any punches. See, I can make assumptions too but until all the facts come out it makes no sense to.



Because I read the article and that’s what the GM of Pats said?


He said it was senseless a guy got shot over the football talk escalating.

Never said who instigated, or gave a blow by blow description of what happened. Ie, who threw the first punch, was the Giant fan just defending himself with the headlock or the Philly fan fearing for his life.

Just crazy that it resulted in a guy getting shot at his place and ending up dead. Talked some more about gun violence from what I read as well but again, never really gave a blow by blow account of what went down besides the headlock and gunshot.



Plus he
Eman  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 9:58 am : link
“They were arguing and it turned into a fight,” Francano said. “One guy grabbed the other guy and got him in a grip, and the other guy pulled out a gun and shot him in the torso. It was one shot. The cops came right away.”

Certainly sounds like the dude that got shot escalated it into a fight.
RE: Eman  
Eman11 : 7/23/2021 10:40 am : link
In comment 15311088 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
“They were arguing and it turned into a fight,” Francano said. “One guy grabbed the other guy and got him in a grip, and the other guy pulled out a gun and shot him in the torso. It was one shot. The cops came right away.”

Certainly sounds like the dude that got shot escalated it into a fight.


Possibly but I’ve seen guys grab another just to hold him off, calm him down and basically say I can crush you if I want but just calm down and it’ll be over. Maybe the Philly guy shoved the Giant fan or pushed him in the chest and then the headlock happened. Maybe the GM didn’t exactly see every second of what went down.

We don’t know based on what the GM said if this could’ve been what happened and the Philly guy panicked or if it’s more along what you’re saying. My point is the same though, I don’t think we can make assumptions on the actual blow by blow from the GM.

Personally I think he’s trying to save his business and have people not be afraid to come there. The “only one shot” line is pretty telling to me, and I think anything he’s said stems from his concerns first.

It’d be great if there were security cameras that captured this, not from a morbid sense but to get to the bottom of it and end any speculation.
shit like this  
Paulie Walnuts : 7/23/2021 10:55 am : link
is why I stopped going to most live sports events..
:  
Big Al : 7/23/2021 10:56 am : link
You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
Well I'm sure the truth will come out because they clearly had eyes  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 10:57 am : link
all over them. Something like that doesn't happen instantenously and draws attraction. If he didn't escalate, the guy will go to jail. If he did, he'll walk. Really that simple. Sure sounds like the dude who got shot was the aggressor there, but could be different I guess, just doubt it the way he told that story.

No offense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/23/2021 10:59 am : link
but saying you hate gun culture while packing heat in your car is really hypocritical.


If you hate gun culture, then you should stay out of conflicts and not resort to carrying a weapon. Having a weapon literally makes you a member of the gun culture.
RE: No offense..  
Big Blue '56 : 7/23/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15311169 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but saying you hate gun culture while packing heat in your car is really hypocritical.


If you hate gun culture, then you should stay out of conflicts and not resort to carrying a weapon. Having a weapon literally makes you a member of the gun culture.


Mic drop
RE: No offense..  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15311169 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but saying you hate gun culture while packing heat in your car is really hypocritical.


If you hate gun culture, then you should stay out of conflicts and not resort to carrying a weapon. Having a weapon literally makes you a member of the gun culture.


I do stay out of conflicts. The problem is in the car, many times it's impossible just to walk away. You are essentially trapped and you don't know if the guy is going to pull. It's why I don't fucking just walk around with the thing. These type of conflicts happen because two fucking idiots couldn't just let it go.
RE: Well I'm sure the truth will come out because they clearly had eyes  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/23/2021 11:02 am : link
In comment 15311167 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
all over them. Something like that doesn't happen instantenously and draws attraction. If he didn't escalate, the guy will go to jail. If he did, he'll walk. Really that simple. Sure sounds like the dude who got shot was the aggressor there, but could be different I guess, just doubt it the way he told that story.


The guy will go to jail - even if it is for manslaughter. There is no stand your ground in PA and self defense has to meet the standard of imminent danger that would lead to death. A headlock doesn't meet that threshold. The precedent there is that fights not involving weapons will be prosecuting and result in jail time if a weapon is introduced.
RE: RE: Well I'm sure the truth will come out because they clearly had eyes  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 11:07 am : link
In comment 15311173 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15311167 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


all over them. Something like that doesn't happen instantenously and draws attraction. If he didn't escalate, the guy will go to jail. If he did, he'll walk. Really that simple. Sure sounds like the dude who got shot was the aggressor there, but could be different I guess, just doubt it the way he told that story.




The guy will go to jail - even if it is for manslaughter. There is no stand your ground in PA and self defense has to meet the standard of imminent danger that would lead to death. A headlock doesn't meet that threshold. The precedent there is that fights not involving weapons will be prosecuting and result in jail time if a weapon is introduced.


Is that accurate? Can't the defense just point to unarmed conflicts leading to brain damage/death?
Yeah I just looked it up, seems like that guy is going to jail  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/23/2021 11:09 am : link
for manslaughter.
RE: Well…  
Route 9 : 7/23/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15310866 bwitz said:
Quote:
That’s on Craig.


Lol. I know. I love that movie.
RE: RE: RE: How fucked up?  
compton : 7/23/2021 1:09 pm : link
In comment 15310816 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15310743 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 15310663 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


Just such a waste of a life. Imagine if that were your son? You just can’t be mouthing off to anyone these days. You never know who’s a packing psycho.




To be fair, the dude that got shot is the one that took it physical. Never a good idea.



He put him in a headlock so he gets killed? That's your reasoning?

You've got some really weird takes. Like really fuckin weird.

What was your previous handle? I'm sure some of us will guess correctly. But just let us know anyways. You sound very familiar.


To be fair, headlocks can lead to death, brain injuries, unconsciousness, etc. You put someone in a headlock you got them in a vulnerable position, so it's not unreasonable for someone who finds themselves in a headlock to panic and press the nuclear option.
There seems to be quite a few fights at Pat's and Geno's  
montanagiant : 7/23/2021 1:16 pm : link
There's an older video floating around of a Rangers fan inline getting into a fight with a Flyers fan while waiting to order at Geno's. This was after their "Winters Classic" game
link - ( New Window )
RE: ......  
montanagiant : 7/23/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15310829 Route 9 said:
Quote:
People fight and kill each other over dumb shit on the daily.

Wasn't there just a Pennsylvania couple this past winter killed because of a dispute to do with snow? SNOW!

That is a horrendous video of that incident. The nutjob killed the couple and then came back and shot them a bunch more times all caught on video with sound.
Follow up story - fight was over a parking space  
US1 Giants : 7/23/2021 2:45 pm : link
Quote:
While initial reports indicated the argument that led to the shooting was over football and an Eagles-Giants rivalry, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office said witnesses told investigators the fight was over a parking space.



Link - ( New Window )
RE: Follow up story - fight was over a parking space  
montanagiant : 7/23/2021 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15311485 US1 Giants said:
Quote:


Quote:


While initial reports indicated the argument that led to the shooting was over football and an Eagles-Giants rivalry, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office said witnesses told investigators the fight was over a parking space.


Link - ( New Window )

It's a paywall unfortunately
RE: RE: Follow up story - fight was over a parking space  
US1 Giants : 7/23/2021 3:24 pm : link
In comment 15311502 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 15311485 US1 Giants said:


Quote:




Quote:


While initial reports indicated the argument that led to the shooting was over football and an Eagles-Giants rivalry, a spokesperson for the District Attorney’s Office said witnesses told investigators the fight was over a parking space.


Link - ( New Window )


It's a paywall unfortunately


I don't have a subscription to that site and have no problem reading the story.
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