Growing concerns with 1st Round Pick Kadarius Toney?

whether or not any issues exist he is now a NY Giant. Judge has standards and I am confident that he (and coaches) will work with him if needed. We also have emerging leaders to step in a little more aggressively again if needed.

For all we know Toney may wind up being a key leader in the next great Giants team.

In comment 15311524 christian said:

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One basic fundamental of professional success is exhibiting good judgement. And he's not nailing it in that arena. I don't doubt his character, intellect, or ability. I do doubt his good judgement. One of the sillier articles this offseason was the Leonard piece praising him for being loyal regarding the air gun incident in college. He and his teammates had an ongoing issue with some townies around campus, and when it escalated he fetched an air rifle that resembled an AR-15. Wrap your head around that -- 1) is it good judgement to go fetch a gun 2) is it good judgement to bring a fake gun to an altercation? Was it good judgement to miss OTAs, even though you're completely covered in the event of injury? He's a young guy, but he's making millions now and has a big responsibility to the team. Time to exhibit the judgement of a pro.

Agreed 100%

I'd say Toney is more likely to be trouble than not

In comment 15311507 JonC said:

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I didn't say he is or will be a bust, just that he's clearly immature. Get a clue.

No you didn't say he is a bust but you also didn't "just" say that he's clearly immature...

You said he's a ding dong and he's distracted by outside interests.

They were already fairly developed even before we drafted him.

But you have to say he has definitely had a run of bad luck since drafted or he's made a few bad choices. It's all minor issues but it sure does seem he has had more of them than anyone else on the team

.

Toney had red flag character issues coming into the draft. High risk/reward type player. Main issue is his commitment to football with his music interest.
Same character red flags as Cowboys Kelvin Joseph before the draft.

In comment 15311555 Bill in UT said:

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In comment 15311553 christian said: Quote: In comment 15311549 Bill in UT said: Quote: Barkley or maybe Shep could serve as a mentor. They've got their heads screwed on pretty well I hope that’s the route. Barkley and Shepard not only have their heads on right, they are also both incredibly cool and likable guys who seem to be having a blast in life. They are both good examples of top notch pros, who have ambitions off the field, are celebrities, and come to work everyday and just get it. Yeah, I ruled out Engram cause I was afraid he might drop the ball on this one

~rimshot~

Nailed it. So far he’s exhibiting some of the judgment issues that plagued Beckham after he became famous for the catch. Hopefully he makes us forget about this with his performance on the field and doesn’t turn into another Gettleman bust first round pick like Baker

In comment 15311701 90.Cal said:

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In comment 15311507 JonC said: Quote: I didn't say he is or will be a bust, just that he's clearly immature. Get a clue. No you didn't say he is a bust but you also didn't "just" say that he's clearly immature... You said he's a ding dong and he's distracted by outside interests.

I can't help you.

Nobody in either thread has shown a lick of concern about Toney dying from COVID-19. Nor wpuld I expect anyone to, but it's telling amd and I think food for thought.

Secondly, had a friend who is a friend of someone in Gainesville PD who said that KT was well known to them. Not that he was really getting into trouble, but always seemingly being at the place(s) they'd get called to.

I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. You hope a player seizes the immense opportunity in front of them and seeks to maximize it to its fullest, which would oblige him to stay away from trouble and be a strong teammate.

As we know that doesn't always happen, but I'll give KT the benefit of the doubt. I'm definitely not concerned with a fewissed practices in July and early August. It's a long season and even if he didn't miss a single practice, he's likely to be brought along slowly in terms of gameplan and reps in the early part of the season.

All of these events, in most part, point to bad decision making off the field. That's what I see here.

Like carrying a shotgun in the backseat of his car and driving around town. It's the same thing events we are seeing now.

KT is probably a good kid at the of the day, but we should expect more bad decisions going forward.

In comment 15311496 Paulie Walnuts said:

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He has disappointed me in ways you cannot possibility imagine.

Lol . . . We’re not talking about Soprano, Paulie.

BUT I hire people all the time and sometimes a pattern emerges right from the beginning and it never goes away, and sometimes the pattern was just a fluke.
Just got off the phone with a guy working his 6th shift and he needs to go home 2hrs early, up until today he has been great so hopefully his emergency has a good outcome. I now have some reservations about this employee that I didn’t have before, maybe I am wrong, hopefully, but I have been down this road so many times to not be worried.

Time heals them.

Of course, sometimes they’re intrinsic issues.

To some extent, not in style or scope, but just that weird things keep happening, he reminds DS me of Robert Williams (Celtics) and his beginning. Just weird stuff which impacted the perceptions of him and also his getting on the court. For Williams, there are still concerns but the talent is just so darn tantalizing.

In comment 15311727 Rick in Dallas said:

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Toney had red flag character issues coming into the draft. High risk/reward type player. Main issue is his commitment to football with his music interest. Same character red flags as Cowboys Kelvin Joseph before the draft.

Please tell me where he put his music over football. Did he miss any practices? Any games? Was he cutting records on the sideline? This stuff is thrown out there about his commitment because of his interest in music and nothing to back up that claim.

I have no problem with anyone saying these are the concerns, but give examples. Show where he isn't committed.

Is Urban Meyer saying he was heartbroken when the Giants selected Toney ahead of him. No NFL coach had a better pipeline into the Florida locker room than Meyer and he wasn't concerned about Toney's character. That being said, it has been one thing after another since draft day and it's not like his college days were free of question marks. He's your proverbial boom or bust prospect.

if Toney didn't test positive for Covid. If someone wants to raise a red flag on player because of Covid then I think that needs to move to a larger conversation about how we feel about athletes that don't get vaccines or take proper precautions. But it's way too early to be talking this way about Toney - can we at least start training camp before worrying about his commitment to playing professional football?

After the multiple failures to attend or complete OTAs.

I’m not saying there’s validity to it but I’m saying that it’s not all because of COVID. That’s just more of a “one more thing”.

Let's see how he does in his rookie season. Then we can level concerns

and Barkley to be healthy and contributing early on. This year is a make or break year for the Giants, Jones and Gettleman.

If they struggle, Gettleman will be fired and Jones will be on his way out. A rebuild will be well under way

I'm more concerned about Barkley than I am Toney at this point. He's 10 months post surgery. Not knowing if he'll be ready for week 1 is a huge concern. You see other guys with ACL tears and they're much further along in their recovery than Barkley seems to be right now.

Perhaps the Giants are just being super cautious and he will be fine, I hope that's the case. He needs to be healthy right from the start. This team absolutely has to get off to a fast start. If they start 1-3 they're fucked. The schedule is very soft early on. If this team is any good, they will start the season at a bare minimum 2-2 if not 3-1. They go 1-3 and you can kiss 2021 goodbye.

If he’s got any maturity issues, getting into the rhythm of camp is something that can help him. Hope he is able to be there in a week and participate. Far too early for me to have any concerns. Definitely know I can’t make any sort of judgment at all until he is actually a participating Giant. Definitely the time of year that the press starts laying down camp storylines, so this appears it will be one. Hopefully Toney gives it no oxygen through any actions during camp. Can’t wait for the preseason and season to start and see what we have here.

Toney isn’t stupid. He graduated high school early, was a big time college recruit as a QB, and all his coaches rave about him.

The music thing is ridiculous as well. If Daniel Jones played bass in a folk band, no one would flip out.

This is about good judgment, which isn’t related to stupidity or creativity.

Don’t bring a BB gun to a gun fight, don’t skip on OTAs when you’re contract is covered, don’t get in Twitter slap fights. Exhibit good judgement, because someone just paid you 14M and you have the world at your fingertips.

In comment 15311962 Bill L said:

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After the multiple failures to attend or complete OTAs. I’m not saying there’s validity to it but I’m saying that it’s not all because of COVID. That’s just more of a “one more thing”.

That’s correct, and the reason for the thread. The Covid issue isn’t the reason for thread, it’s just the most recent problem we are hearing about with Toney. Toney is young. He is showing his immaturity. He clearly doesn’t have things in perspective yet. It’s fairly obvious.

Everything is in front of him. All the things he worked hard for through high school and college are there for the taking. Is he going to start going down the wrong path and put things at risk or is he going to “keep his nose clean” and buckle down and focus on the single most important thing in his life right now...playing football for the NY Giants.

There is no benefit of the doubt for 22-year old rookie WRs in the NFL, only show me what you got.

Let’s see what happens.

He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?

It has been an inauspicious start, but we haven't even gotten to training camp yet so I'm not worried...yet.

My daughter just graduated from U of F in May, and through I otherwise have no interest in college football, I think I missed watching two U of F games over the past four years. Toney is fast as hell, and he's a big-time playmaker who looked every bit as good as Victor Cruz. Kyle Pitts is great, but I've been bemused for a while as to why Toney flew under the radar as Pitts got all the national attention.

This is the time of year when writers need stories. Let's wait until they play the games to make a determination about this guy.

But did any other rookie sit out of camp this year? I know they have protections but is it rare for this to happen

The only thing remotely concerning is that he is in protocol. I hope he is negative and healthy. Everything else is a nothing burger.

In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said:

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He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?

Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him

Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag

In comment 15312130 mfsd said:

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In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said: Quote: He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story? Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag

I always knew Toney was behind the fence on the grassy knoll.

In comment 15312132 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 15312130 mfsd said: Quote: In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said: Quote: He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story? Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag I always knew Toney was behind the fence on the grassy knoll.

Magic Bullet - good nickname for him:)

until they hit the field. Look at the people who called Odell "Becky" his rookie season and said he wasn't interested in being on the field.

I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested??

Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.

In comment 15312130 mfsd said:

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In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said: Quote: He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story? Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag

There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting.

And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway...

In comment 15312142 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 15312130 mfsd said: Quote: In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said: Quote: He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story? Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting. And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway...

Googs you’re not much of a conspiracy theorist are you. You probably thing Berkowitz committed the Son of Sam killings alone too:)

At only slightly better than Jerrel Jernigan’s chances.

In comment 15312128 Section331 said:

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The only thing remotely concerning is that he is in protocol. I hope he is negative and healthy. Everything else is a nothing burger.

Agreed.
Meanwhile, I'm sure the author (and really every one of us here as well) would love to have his character questioned if he were excused from a couple days of work due to a family emergency.

In comment 15312147 mfsd said:

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In comment 15312142 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 15312130 mfsd said: Quote: In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said: Quote: He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story? Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting. And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway... Googs you’re not much of a conspiracy theorist are you. You probably thing Berkowitz committed the Son of Sam killings alone too:)

Ha!. I may be the biggest non-conspiracy theorist on the planet.

Mostly because that side gets to listen and make fun of the eye-rolling stories, like we hear sometimes about our beloved Giant front office :-)

In comment 15312126 GruningsOnTheHill said:

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My daughter just graduated from U of F in May, and through I otherwise have no interest in college football, I think I missed watching two U of F games over the past four years. Toney is fast as hell, and he's a big-time playmaker who looked every bit as good as Victor Cruz. Kyle Pitts is great, but I've been bemused for a while as to why Toney flew under the radar as Pitts got all the national attention. This is the time of year when writers need stories. Let's wait until they play the games to make a determination about this guy.

He only has 1 full year of production at WR. Heading into his senior year, he was still considered a converted Qb and gadget player. As good as his senior year was, I suspect that if he was used more often throughout his college campaign his draft stock would be much different.

In comment 15312140 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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until they hit the field. Look at the people who called Odell "Becky" his rookie season and said he wasn't interested in being on the field. I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested?? Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.

Truth. But some guys need "work" to learn and if they ain't participating enough well... it creates these discussions.

But yeah, at the end of the day, game 1 vs Denver can't come fast enough.

In comment 15311783 Ralph.C said:

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In comment 15311496 Paulie Walnuts said: Quote: He has disappointed me in ways you cannot possibility imagine. Lol . . . We’re not talking about Soprano, Paulie.

what is this? The facking un now?

In comment 15312140 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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until they hit the field. Look at the people who called Odell "Becky" his rookie season and said he wasn't interested in being on the field. I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested?? Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.

It’s all hopefully a big overreaction but comparing Sewell and Toneys off seasons thus far is apples and oranges. The only common thread is that they both got covid. There has been a lot of “stuff” with Toney in 3 months. and downplaying it doesn’t change the facts

In comment 15312519 Ned In Atlanta said:

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comparing Sewell and Toneys off seasons thus far is apples and oranges. The only common thread is that they both got covid.

That's not entirely true, because with Sewell there is the added element of taking the year off with fear of Covid as his excuse (I'm oversimplifying but you know what I mean). A deeper dive into Sewell's and Toney's circumstances could explain it all away or just the opposite.

acclimate to life outside of college. And the wide receiver position probably has as many examples of raw immaturity in the professional ranks as any.

None of the individual issues with Toney so far are overly concerning. But collectively it is fair to say this hasn't been an ideal start for him.

Hopefully the next time we hear his name it is because he is holding the ball in the end zone in week 1.

to be hearing anything negative regarding my first round draft pick, before training camp starts. I’d like to hear nothing about him until the “he looks like the steal of the draft” quotes start filtering out from training camp.

and Parsons torments the Giants for the next five to ten years, it will be ugly.

In comment 15312510 Paulie Walnuts said:

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In comment 15311783 Ralph.C said: Quote: In comment 15311496 Paulie Walnuts said: Quote: He has disappointed me in ways you cannot possibility imagine. Lol . . . We’re not talking about Soprano, Paulie. what is this? The facking un now?

I’ve heard Toney likes eating grilled cheese off the radiator.

In comment 15312140 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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until they hit the field. Look at the people who called Odell "Becky" his rookie season and said he wasn't interested in being on the field. I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested?? Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.

.....And none of that does anything about impressions already formed., because in the end, we get to form our own opinions, regardless of who says what does or doen't matter...

That's not an indictment or even an adjustment.
He's a rookie, we are all going he can contribute this year and that6 based - at least to some degree- on the kid working extra hard and grabbing every opportunity to get in synch with his qb.
He hasn't made the group of receivers that Jonws has assembled and had at least two sessions with, he didn't make the team sanctioned practices that he could have, he didn't protect himself against civid when he could have/ should have.
Then there a history that has no validity by itself but is properly so given teeth by behavior subsequent to the draft.
There is illegitimate reason for "concern" and the growing, gnawing thought that he "might" not be the big contributor this year that some of us were hoping for.