Grabbed a portion of an article just read on SI.com which summarizes some of the struggles with Toney since he was drafted by the team at the end of April.
The question at hand is whether there are increasing concerns with this young man and his transition into the NFL? Or are these all relatively harmless and unrelated incidents that could happen to any player and are not at all unexpected from a rookie. Would be surprised if this conversation isn't going at some level within the hierarchy of the NY Giant front office.
In an effort not to have the thread deleted please keep opinions and debate centered on Toney and not on the COVID virus itself. Thanks in advance.
Extract from SI.com
The Giants announced that receiver Kadarius Toney, their first-round draft pick, has been placed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list. Toney, along with the rookies, reported to training camp Wednesday. As per league protocols, all players were tested for the virus; however, it was unclear whether Toney tested positive for the virus or was exposed to someone who tested positive.
Regardless, Toney, the Giants' first-round draft pick chosen 20th overall following their trade with the Chicago Bears in which they dropped from No. 11 overall to No. 20 overall, is following the NFL's protocols by isolating and participating in meetings remotely.
Toney's NFL career is off to a rocky start. After reporting for the team's rookie minicamp, he experienced some equipment issues with his cleats that limited him in practice.
Then he sat out the team's OTAs while waiting for his rookie contract to be finalized, despite having a protection waiver in place that would have ensured his receiving the same contract regardless if he was injured or not.
Once that was finalized, Toney had to miss one of the three days of the team's mandatory minicamp last month due to a family emergency for which head coach Joe Judge excused him.
Full article attached here.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/gm-report/new-york-giants-receiver-kadarius-toney-placed-on-reserve-covid-19-list
Fingers crossed that this is much ado about nothing and he's a key team contributor!
Equipment problem is not his doing, is it? People have odd sized feet and the shoes must be fitted properly for stress they are under.
Covid protocol - 6 Yankees are sitting out right now and 8 staff and coaches did so earlier - most vaccinated. (FWIW, my daughter is a counselor at a camp where twice a kid come in with a "cold" and infected other kids and counselors, some vaccinated, some not).
Sitting out waiting for his contract to be completed missing OTA's - hmm yeah, why shouldn't he protect himself from injury and loss of income from an injury?
He may very well be a slightly immature knucklehead, but what is listed above is not really anything to get upset about or say is unusual.
Can we at least wait until camp to see how he does before crucifying him?
It may end up being meaningless but its hard to argue that this is a good start. We should probably just wait and see but fuck it, its Friday. Lets argue.
Many will say no concern, but if we were to take a poll before hand and ask who the first player to enter protocol would be, my guess is 90% not saying no concern would have said Toney. And they would be right. We’ve seen it before. Some players are just like that.
He may very well be a slightly immature knucklehead, but what is listed above is not really anything to get upset about or say is unusual.
Can we at least wait until camp to see how he does before crucifying him?
Nobody is crucifying him so stop the dramatics.
The topic is posed as a question. Even you refer to him as a potential knucklehead with a growing list of incidents over a lengthy 2.5 month NFL career.
But I don’t see how anyone can argue that missing practice after practice will not be detrimental to his growth and the offense overall. Football is a team game that requires a ton of time spent coordinating the plays among the different units. You can’t just show up and expect to dominate on skill or athleticism alone. You need to develop a rhythm and an understanding of your teammates’ tendencies. He is losing that crucial time with these missed practices. I’m not saying he won’t develop this year, but I am saying that whatever development he does make will be held in check by the growing number of practices he misses. I can’t see how others do see this as a concern regardless of any question about his attitude or other factors.
But I don’t see how anyone can argue that missing practice after practice will not be detrimental to his growth and the offense overall. Football is a team game that requires a ton of time spent coordinating the plays among the different units. You can’t just show up and expect to dominate on skill or athleticism alone. You need to develop a rhythm and an understanding of your teammates’ tendencies. He is losing that crucial time with these missed practices. I’m not saying he won’t develop this year, but I am saying that whatever development he does make will be held in check by the growing number of practices he misses. I can’t see how others do see this as a concern regardless of any question about his attitude or other factors.
Also ZERO homer glasses on. I’m simply waiting to see how it plays out when it matters. Nothing’s guaranteed by any stretch, but the Giants I’m certain totally vetted the guy, so I don’t care what some fans say about what they’ve heard or have supposedly seen. I trust Joe Judge and the people he entrusts..
But I don’t see how anyone can argue that missing practice after practice will not be detrimental to his growth and the offense overall. Football is a team game that requires a ton of time spent coordinating the plays among the different units. You can’t just show up and expect to dominate on skill or athleticism alone. You need to develop a rhythm and an understanding of your teammates’ tendencies. He is losing that crucial time with these missed practices. I’m not saying he won’t develop this year, but I am saying that whatever development he does make will be held in check by the growing number of practices he misses. I can’t see how others do see this as a concern regardless of any question about his attitude or other factors.
Just to amplify, as it seems the Giants are planning to use him in many ways, he's going to have to learn several positions. He needs to be available to put in the time.
Also ZERO homer glasses on. I’m simply waiting to see how it plays out when it matters. Nothing’s guaranteed by any stretch, but the Giants I’m certain totally vetted the guy, so I don’t care what some fans say about what they’ve heard or have supposedly seen. I trust Joe Judge and the people he entrusts..
If you have zero homer glasses on, you're wearing contacts, lol
Quote:
Also ZERO homer glasses on. I’m simply waiting to see how it plays out when it matters. Nothing’s guaranteed by any stretch, but the Giants I’m certain totally vetted the guy, so I don’t care what some fans say about what they’ve heard or have supposedly seen. I trust Joe Judge and the people he entrusts..
If you have zero homer glasses on, you're wearing contacts, lol
Actually, had cataracts removed years ago, so have 20-20 vision. No more glasses..😂
He needs to get on the field and start justifying this first round investment. Than hopefully this noise goes away.
He needs to get on the field and start justifying this first round investment. Than hopefully this noise goes away.
And there he is
Quote:
7
It’s always something with Toney. And thus far the somethings have been on the wrong side.
He needs to get on the field and start justifying this first round investment. Than hopefully this noise goes away.
And there he is
😎
Quote:
And if you have zero concern, IMO, you have your homer glasses on. Whether or not one issue after the next is indicative of a larger problem is a matter of opinion that can be argued both ways.
But I don’t see how anyone can argue that missing practice after practice will not be detrimental to his growth and the offense overall. Football is a team game that requires a ton of time spent coordinating the plays among the different units. You can’t just show up and expect to dominate on skill or athleticism alone. You need to develop a rhythm and an understanding of your teammates’ tendencies. He is losing that crucial time with these missed practices. I’m not saying he won’t develop this year, but I am saying that whatever development he does make will be held in check by the growing number of practices he misses. I can’t see how others do see this as a concern regardless of any question about his attitude or other factors.
Also ZERO homer glasses on. I’m simply waiting to see how it plays out when it matters. Nothing’s guaranteed by any stretch, but the Giants I’m certain totally vetted the guy, so I don’t care what some fans say about what they’ve heard or have supposedly seen. I trust Joe Judge and the people he entrusts..
You cannot be certain that Giants totally vetted him.
For one, the Giants have not exactly been the model franchise on this subject in recent years. Also possible they did less on Toney knowing he wasn't on the original shortlist if they stayed at #11 and probably wasn't going to be available by their 2nd round pick. Just hypothesizing here but no way to be certain he was vetted at the same depth as some other WRs.
We can have threads on wait and see topics too. Unless of course you would like to discuss the 2018 season some more?
Forgot about the firearm story...what was the crux of all that?
Lmao... why not just call him a bust already and get it over with
Quote:
In comment 15311461 Dukie Dimes said:
Quote:
And if you have zero concern, IMO, you have your homer glasses on. Whether or not one issue after the next is indicative of a larger problem is a matter of opinion that can be argued both ways.
But I don’t see how anyone can argue that missing practice after practice will not be detrimental to his growth and the offense overall. Football is a team game that requires a ton of time spent coordinating the plays among the different units. You can’t just show up and expect to dominate on skill or athleticism alone. You need to develop a rhythm and an understanding of your teammates’ tendencies. He is losing that crucial time with these missed practices. I’m not saying he won’t develop this year, but I am saying that whatever development he does make will be held in check by the growing number of practices he misses. I can’t see how others do see this as a concern regardless of any question about his attitude or other factors.
Also ZERO homer glasses on. I’m simply waiting to see how it plays out when it matters. Nothing’s guaranteed by any stretch, but the Giants I’m certain totally vetted the guy, so I don’t care what some fans say about what they’ve heard or have supposedly seen. I trust Joe Judge and the people he entrusts..
You cannot be certain that Giants totally vetted him.
For one, the Giants have not exactly been the model franchise on this subject in recent years. Also possible they did less on Toney knowing he wasn't on the original shortlist if they stayed at #11 and probably wasn't going to be available by their 2nd round pick. Just hypothesizing here but no way to be certain he was vetted at the same depth as some other WRs.
Stop caring about what might or might not have been the case before JJ. I am as certain as one can be without being part of the assessment team..
Stop caring about what might or might not have been the case before JJ. I am as certain as one can be without being part of the assessment team..
A statement made as a borderline absolute, on something you are not remotely connected with? Seems a bit unnecessary, no?
No offense, but Judge doesn't do everybody's job in the entire organization (i think?).
So far not so good for a guy that there were character concerns about. That doesn't mean much other than as a Giant fan I hope the issues stop before the season starts. But it's not a good start to the lead up of his first season.
Knowing now what I knew then I'd still make the trade and the pick and I'm hoping for the best. The player is certainly talented enough to have a big positive impact on the field if the staff can coach him up on and off the field.
I don't doubt his character, intellect, or ability. I do doubt his good judgement.
One of the sillier articles this offseason was the Leonard piece praising him for being loyal regarding the air gun incident in college.
He and his teammates had an ongoing issue with some townies around campus, and when it escalated he fetched an air rifle that resembled an AR-15.
Wrap your head around that -- 1) is it good judgement to go fetch a gun 2) is it good judgement to bring a fake gun to an altercation?
Was it good judgement to miss OTAs, even though you're completely covered in the event of injury?
He's a young guy, but he's making millions now and has a big responsibility to the team. Time to exhibit the judgement of a pro.
Quote:
Stop caring about what might or might not have been the case before JJ. I am as certain as one can be without being part of the assessment team..
A statement made as a borderline absolute, on something you are not remotely connected with? Seems a bit unnecessary, no?
No offense, but Judge doesn't do everybody's job in the entire organization (i think?).
All I’m saying, is let’s see what he does on the field and in the lockerroom. I’ll be right up there with those who are skeptical about him, if he proves after a season or two that he was a mistake (character-wise). That’s not a tough ask, imo.
never heard of the kid and it seemed like once they traded with the bears and got their first-round pick next year, they were fine taking some WR. i don't know who else they would have drafted but i was expecting and/or hoping it would be OL.
at least they didn't trade up to get him, like with deandre baker. hopefully it's all nonsense and things will be fine come august/september.
Quote:
In comment 15311511 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Stop caring about what might or might not have been the case before JJ. I am as certain as one can be without being part of the assessment team..
A statement made as a borderline absolute, on something you are not remotely connected with? Seems a bit unnecessary, no?
No offense, but Judge doesn't do everybody's job in the entire organization (i think?).
All I’m saying, is let’s see what he does on the field and in the lockerroom. I’ll be right up there with those who are skeptical about him, if he proves after a season or two that he was a mistake (character-wise). That’s not a tough ask, imo.
Of course it isn't tough ask, but also not the topic above.
But as you said, it does matter what he does in the lockerroom and the field. Unfortunately, Toney is having a difficult time showing up in those two particular venues in his first couple of months.
Quote:
COVID protocol, equipment issue, family situation, legal possession of a firearm. Do these really add up to something. I don’t know. Willing to wait and see (since that is all we can do anyway).
We can have threads on wait and see topics too. Unless of course you would like to discuss the 2018 season some more?
Forgot about the firearm story...what was the crux of all that?
When did I say we shouldn’t have threads on this? I posted on this thread.
+2. But I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's been a crazy year for everyone.
I hope that’s the route. Barkley and Shepard not only have their heads on right, they are also both incredibly cool and likable guys who seem to be having a blast in life. They are both good examples of top notch pros, who have ambitions off the field, are celebrities, and come to work everyday and just get it.
Quote:
He may very well be a slightly immature knucklehead, but what is listed above is not really anything to get upset about or say is unusual.
Can we at least wait until camp to see how he does before crucifying him?
Nobody is crucifying him so stop the dramatics.
The topic is posed as a question. Even you refer to him as a potential knucklehead with a growing list of incidents over a lengthy 2.5 month NFL career.
Reading comprehension is important.
#1) I did not say he was a knucklehead, I said he MAY be. We do not know if he is or if he just being picked on to appear as one. You can look for and find oddities in anyone's persona.
#2) The object of this is to crucify him. Point out little nit picky, mostly irrelevant items and swing away.
#3) Drama? - you are the one being dramatic. I am suggesting people not get dramatic
All I am asking is to let him get to camp before we, the adoring fandom, declare him a problem.
Quote:
Barkley or maybe Shep could serve as a mentor. They've got their heads screwed on pretty well
I hope that’s the route. Barkley and Shepard not only have their heads on right, they are also both incredibly cool and likable guys who seem to be having a blast in life. They are both good examples of top notch pros, who have ambitions off the field, are celebrities, and come to work everyday and just get it.
Yeah, I ruled out Engram cause I was afraid he might drop the ball on this one
I don't doubt his character, intellect, or ability. I do doubt his good judgement.
One of the sillier articles this offseason was the Leonard piece praising him for being loyal regarding the air gun incident in college.
He and his teammates had an ongoing issue with some townies around campus, and when it escalated he fetched an air rifle that resembled an AR-15.
Wrap your head around that -- 1) is it good judgement to go fetch a gun 2) is it good judgement to bring a fake gun to an altercation?
Was it good judgement to miss OTAs, even though you're completely covered in the event of injury?
He's a young guy, but he's making millions now and has a big responsibility to the team. Time to exhibit the judgement of a pro.
Nobody can dispute what you’re saying here. EVERYONE know this. Or SHOULD.
JJ has shown he’s far from reticent about getting rid of problematic people (for him)..
KT may have maturity issues and may continue in that vein. Or, once things start up for real, he will get with the program. Right now, nothing of real importance has played out, at least to be worried about, imv..
There’s plenty of extreme stupid going on in this country as you know, so his immature behavior doesn’t startle me. Yet. I’m going to roll the dice with Judge and his judgements (no pun intended) as he has shown in just a little over a year, that he’s not afraid to cut his losses.
Don’t even think about Daniel Jones. That guy fumbles everything opportunity.
Feels Good! - ( New Window )