Grabbed a portion of an article just read on SI.com which summarizes some of the struggles with Toney since he was drafted by the team at the end of April.
The question at hand is whether there are increasing concerns with this young man and his transition into the NFL? Or are these all relatively harmless and unrelated incidents that could happen to any player and are not at all unexpected from a rookie. Would be surprised if this conversation isn't going at some level within the hierarchy of the NY Giant front office.
In an effort not to have the thread deleted please keep opinions and debate centered on Toney and not on the COVID virus itself. Thanks in advance.
Extract from SI.com
The Giants announced that receiver Kadarius Toney, their first-round draft pick, has been placed on the Reserve/COVID-19 list. Toney, along with the rookies, reported to training camp Wednesday. As per league protocols, all players were tested for the virus; however, it was unclear whether Toney tested positive for the virus or was exposed to someone who tested positive.
Regardless, Toney, the Giants' first-round draft pick chosen 20th overall following their trade with the Chicago Bears in which they dropped from No. 11 overall to No. 20 overall, is following the NFL's protocols by isolating and participating in meetings remotely.
Toney's NFL career is off to a rocky start. After reporting for the team's rookie minicamp, he experienced some equipment issues with his cleats that limited him in practice.
Then he sat out the team's OTAs while waiting for his rookie contract to be finalized, despite having a protection waiver in place that would have ensured his receiving the same contract regardless if he was injured or not.
Once that was finalized, Toney had to miss one of the three days of the team's mandatory minicamp last month due to a family emergency for which head coach Joe Judge excused him.
Full article attached here.
https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/gm-report/new-york-giants-receiver-kadarius-toney-placed-on-reserve-covid-19-list
Quote:
In comment 15311435 section125 said:
Quote:
He may very well be a slightly immature knucklehead, but what is listed above is not really anything to get upset about or say is unusual.
Can we at least wait until camp to see how he does before crucifying him?
Nobody is crucifying him so stop the dramatics.
The topic is posed as a question. Even you refer to him as a potential knucklehead with a growing list of incidents over a lengthy 2.5 month NFL career.
Reading comprehension is important.
#1) I did not say he was a knucklehead, I said he MAY be. We do not know if he is or if he just being picked on to appear as one. You can look for and find oddities in anyone's persona.
#2) The object of this is to crucify him. Point out little nit picky, mostly irrelevant items and swing away.
#3) Drama? - you are the one being dramatic. I am suggesting people not get dramatic
All I am asking is to let him get to camp before we, the adoring fandom, declare him a problem.
Reading comprehension Level II:
I said you said a "potential" knucklehead. Not a big leap there from your comment.
The object of this thread is some NYG news when there is very little other newsworthy topics.
You go with a phrase like "crucify" and you don't think that's being dramatic for a football thread?
Would love to have him get to camp and onto the field practicing. There seems to be only one person preventing that so far.
A degree of immaturity is to be expected with any rookie, most rapidly growing into their new responsibilities, so I'm prepared to see what happens. Missing OTA's is disappointing, but could just as easily be prudence urged by an agent. I think the degree to which agents influence players is often overlooked, and all of them have their eyes firmly fixed on the ball, which of course isn't the ball, but the money. One could even argue it's their responsibility, as well as obvious self interest to give advice that maximizes long term income over offering entertainment to the fans.
[quote]JJ has shown he’s far from reticent about getting rid of problematic people (for him)../quote]
I don’t doubt Judge will address/remove any and all issues, I have zero lack of faith in Judge’s judgement. My lack of faith is in Toney’s good judgment.
I think we all agree and hope Toney’s past poor decisions are not a pattern that continues, and it never comes anywhere near removal.
He’s got several good examples of pros pros in that locker room. I want him to act like them.
For all we know Toney may wind up being a key leader in the next great Giants team.
I don't doubt his character, intellect, or ability. I do doubt his good judgement.
One of the sillier articles this offseason was the Leonard piece praising him for being loyal regarding the air gun incident in college.
He and his teammates had an ongoing issue with some townies around campus, and when it escalated he fetched an air rifle that resembled an AR-15.
Wrap your head around that -- 1) is it good judgement to go fetch a gun 2) is it good judgement to bring a fake gun to an altercation?
Was it good judgement to miss OTAs, even though you're completely covered in the event of injury?
He's a young guy, but he's making millions now and has a big responsibility to the team. Time to exhibit the judgement of a pro.
Agreed 100%
No you didn't say he is a bust but you also didn't "just" say that he's clearly immature...
You said he's a ding dong and he's distracted by outside interests.
Same character red flags as Cowboys Kelvin Joseph before the draft.
Quote:
In comment 15311549 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Barkley or maybe Shep could serve as a mentor. They've got their heads screwed on pretty well
I hope that’s the route. Barkley and Shepard not only have their heads on right, they are also both incredibly cool and likable guys who seem to be having a blast in life. They are both good examples of top notch pros, who have ambitions off the field, are celebrities, and come to work everyday and just get it.
Yeah, I ruled out Engram cause I was afraid he might drop the ball on this one
~rimshot~
Quote:
I didn't say he is or will be a bust, just that he's clearly immature. Get a clue.
No you didn't say he is a bust but you also didn't "just" say that he's clearly immature...
You said he's a ding dong and he's distracted by outside interests.
I can't help you.
Secondly, had a friend who is a friend of someone in Gainesville PD who said that KT was well known to them. Not that he was really getting into trouble, but always seemingly being at the place(s) they'd get called to.
I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. You hope a player seizes the immense opportunity in front of them and seeks to maximize it to its fullest, which would oblige him to stay away from trouble and be a strong teammate.
As we know that doesn't always happen, but I'll give KT the benefit of the doubt. I'm definitely not concerned with a fewissed practices in July and early August. It's a long season and even if he didn't miss a single practice, he's likely to be brought along slowly in terms of gameplan and reps in the early part of the season.
Like carrying a shotgun in the backseat of his car and driving around town. It's the same thing events we are seeing now.
KT is probably a good kid at the of the day, but we should expect more bad decisions going forward.
Lol . . . We’re not talking about Soprano, Paulie.
Just got off the phone with a guy working his 6th shift and he needs to go home 2hrs early, up until today he has been great so hopefully his emergency has a good outcome. I now have some reservations about this employee that I didn’t have before, maybe I am wrong, hopefully, but I have been down this road so many times to not be worried.
Of course, sometimes they’re intrinsic issues.
To some extent, not in style or scope, but just that weird things keep happening, he reminds DS me of Robert Williams (Celtics) and his beginning. Just weird stuff which impacted the perceptions of him and also his getting on the court. For Williams, there are still concerns but the talent is just so darn tantalizing.
Same character red flags as Cowboys Kelvin Joseph before the draft.
Please tell me where he put his music over football. Did he miss any practices? Any games? Was he cutting records on the sideline? This stuff is thrown out there about his commitment because of his interest in music and nothing to back up that claim.
I have no problem with anyone saying these are the concerns, but give examples. Show where he isn't committed.
I’m not saying there’s validity to it but I’m saying that it’s not all because of COVID. That’s just more of a “one more thing”.
If they struggle, Gettleman will be fired and Jones will be on his way out. A rebuild will be well under way
I'm more concerned about Barkley than I am Toney at this point. He's 10 months post surgery. Not knowing if he'll be ready for week 1 is a huge concern. You see other guys with ACL tears and they're much further along in their recovery than Barkley seems to be right now.
Perhaps the Giants are just being super cautious and he will be fine, I hope that's the case. He needs to be healthy right from the start. This team absolutely has to get off to a fast start. If they start 1-3 they're fucked. The schedule is very soft early on. If this team is any good, they will start the season at a bare minimum 2-2 if not 3-1. They go 1-3 and you can kiss 2021 goodbye.
The music thing is ridiculous as well. If Daniel Jones played bass in a folk band, no one would flip out.
This is about good judgment, which isn’t related to stupidity or creativity.
Don’t bring a BB gun to a gun fight, don’t skip on OTAs when you’re contract is covered, don’t get in Twitter slap fights. Exhibit good judgement, because someone just paid you 14M and you have the world at your fingertips.
I’m not saying there’s validity to it but I’m saying that it’s not all because of COVID. That’s just more of a “one more thing”.
That’s correct, and the reason for the thread. The Covid issue isn’t the reason for thread, it’s just the most recent problem we are hearing about with Toney. Toney is young. He is showing his immaturity. He clearly doesn’t have things in perspective yet. It’s fairly obvious.
Everything is in front of him. All the things he worked hard for through high school and college are there for the taking. Is he going to start going down the wrong path and put things at risk or is he going to “keep his nose clean” and buckle down and focus on the single most important thing in his life right now...playing football for the NY Giants.
There is no benefit of the doubt for 22-year old rookie WRs in the NFL, only show me what you got.
Let’s see what happens.
This is the time of year when writers need stories. Let's wait until they play the games to make a determination about this guy.
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
Quote:
He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
I always knew Toney was behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
Quote:
In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
I always knew Toney was behind the fence on the grassy knoll.
Magic Bullet - good nickname for him:)
I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested??
Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.
Quote:
He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting.
And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway...
Quote:
In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting.
And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway...
Googs you’re not much of a conspiracy theorist are you. You probably thing Berkowitz committed the Son of Sam killings alone too:)
Agreed.
Meanwhile, I'm sure the author (and really every one of us here as well) would love to have his character questioned if he were excused from a couple days of work due to a family emergency.
Quote:
In comment 15312130 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 15312090 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
He's in Covid protocol, had a "cleats issue" and sat while he deal was finalized... is this even a story?
Seriously. You’d think he was in on the conspiracy to assassinated JFK too, the way people are bellyaching about him
Would love for someone to explain how missing part of a practice bc of an issue with his cleats is a character ref flag
There was no conspiracy with the JFK shooting.
And it was in 1963 so Toney would have decent alibi anyway...
Googs you’re not much of a conspiracy theorist are you. You probably thing Berkowitz committed the Son of Sam killings alone too:)
Ha!. I may be the biggest non-conspiracy theorist on the planet.
Mostly because that side gets to listen and make fun of the eye-rolling stories, like we hear sometimes about our beloved Giant front office :-)
This is the time of year when writers need stories. Let's wait until they play the games to make a determination about this guy.
He only has 1 full year of production at WR. Heading into his senior year, he was still considered a converted Qb and gadget player. As good as his senior year was, I suspect that if he was used more often throughout his college campaign his draft stock would be much different.
I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested??
Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.
But yeah, at the end of the day, game 1 vs Denver can't come fast enough.
Quote:
He has disappointed me in ways you cannot possibility imagine.
Lol . . . We’re not talking about Soprano, Paulie.
I wonder if Penei Sewell is called a bust because he has COVID and sat out a year? Uninterested??
Nothing really matters until these guys take the field.
It’s all hopefully a big overreaction but comparing Sewell and Toneys off seasons thus far is apples and oranges. The only common thread is that they both got covid. There has been a lot of “stuff” with Toney in 3 months. and downplaying it doesn’t change the facts
None of the individual issues with Toney so far are overly concerning. But collectively it is fair to say this hasn't been an ideal start for him.
Hopefully the next time we hear his name it is because he is holding the ball in the end zone in week 1.