Training Camp Battles That Intrigue You The Most.

a lot of the players that have been here a couple years really need to show something, such as Ximines, Carter, Downs. 1 or more may be out of a job with Anderson, IO, and Ragland, as well as Ojulari and Smith in the draft. Also have guys like Lalos who have flashed

Our defense rotates a lot but not as much as our WRs and TEs would based on situations. I mean maybe they would but we kind of know what the WRs and TEs bring to the table already. The main competition will be at OG imo. We need guys to step up there and I'm curious where Murphy is in his progression. The news on him has been very quiet.

for playing time, although scheme may still result in a wide range of players getting snaps. Would imagine this will go down to the wire on who is getting cut.

Guard is going to be a competitive battle as well to determine starters. However, the winners here may wind up only being a touch better than the reserves anyway in the end.

Maybe Slot Cornerback too?

They have Carter, Ojulari, Odenigbo, Ximines, Anderson, Smith, Brown, and Coughlin competing for two starting spots.

With Holmes and Robinson

I also am interested to see how the following guys are used.

-Odenigbo and Elerson Smith...are they going to be traditional 4-3 DE’s? Smith is being listed as a DE, which makes me think Graham will be deploying a lot more 4-3 looks

Coughlin- moving to ILB?

In comment 15312633 robbieballs2003 said:

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Our defense rotates a lot but not as much as our WRs and TEs would based on situations. I mean maybe they would but we kind of know what the WRs and TEs bring to the table already. The main competition will be at OG imo. We need guys to step up there and I'm curious where Murphy is in his progression. The news on him has been very quiet.

Do you think we'll get as much rotating on defense this year as we saw last year? I've heard a couple of pundits make the case that we'll see less personnel rotating in and out, and more staying on the field but shifting positions. Reason being that opposing OC's now have a year's worth of film on Graham's defenses to study, and that they'll adjust their offenses accordingly to account for his personnel changes. I don't necessarily buy that, but I'd like to know what you think about it.

I think Ross and Pettis are under rated. We have no idea what will be the role or performance of our first first round draft choice. The free agent spree this year makes it unlikely that Shepard or Engram will be back next year. I would not be surprised to see one of them or both moved to teams that develop injury problems at tight end or wide receiver.

I hope two of our young pass rushers seize the opportunity.

Unless we are starting three safeties one of Peppers, McKinney or Ryan are going to have to sit to say nothing of Love.

In comment 15312651 Klaatu said:

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In comment 15312633 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: Our defense rotates a lot but not as much as our WRs and TEs would based on situations. I mean maybe they would but we kind of know what the WRs and TEs bring to the table already. The main competition will be at OG imo. We need guys to step up there and I'm curious where Murphy is in his progression. The news on him has been very quiet. Do you think we'll get as much rotating on defense this year as we saw last year? I've heard a couple of pundits make the case that we'll see less personnel rotating in and out, and more staying on the field but shifting positions. Reason being that opposing OC's now have a year's worth of film on Graham's defenses to study, and that they'll adjust their offenses accordingly to account for his personnel changes. I don't necessarily buy that, but I'd like to know what you think about it.

Yes, definitely. Graham and Judge have said repeatedly that they want to be multiple and be game plan specific. Guys will be put in positions to succeed. I expect our safeties to rotate and play all over the place. I expect to see different situations where Adoree Jackson is lined up outside and in the slot. I expect to see OLB rotated to find out who can do what. I expect our DL to rotate like they always have. This doesn't mean equal playing time, just that many guys will see the field over the course of the year.

Who steps up? There are no Alphas but no cream-puffs either. Lorenzo Carter, Ryan Anderson, Oshane Ximines, Azeez Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Cam Brown & Carter Coughlin.

That's a lot of guys with real potential. And the "winner" becomes a name as the primary ER on a good D.

Rudolph will be brought along slowly. Of the JAGs fighting for the spots behind him and Engram, one or two will make the team as blockers, STers, and/or dump off options. With limited contact, that competition will be visible only on tape and in the far corners of the practice fields.

Competitions that will have greater bearing on the team’s success include:
- EDGE
- Nickel
- Dime
- ILB2
- WR 3/4/5

Also RB3, assuming Barkley starts the season on a pitch count. On the offensive line, we have to hope that the presumptive starters all solidify their positions and the three veteran backups remain backups.

In comment 15312678 ChicagoMarty said:

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Unless we are starting three safeties one of Peppers, McKinney or Ryan are going to have to sit to say nothing of Love.

I get the impression that a three safety look wil be quite prevalent.

Slot corner, Holmes v Robinson. Will McKinney and/or Love get any time there?

Wide Receiver, How much time will K-Toney get? Can Ross step up this year?

Right Tackle, Is Peart ready to be the man? How will Solder look?

OG - Are Hernandez and Lemieux ready or can someone push them out? *Possibly someone from another team.

ILB - Ragland, Crowder, Coughlan

OLB - Carter, Ojalari, Ximines, Anderson, Elerson, Odenigbo

Most intriguing new players?
Odenigbo
Ojalari
K-Toney
Jackson

Rising young vets?
McKinney
Peart
Crowder
Lemieux

Vets on rebound?
Engram
Carter
Ross
Solder

Thoughts?

I'd be shocked if he makes the roster.

I think Carter is very much in the mix and with the FAs brought in along with the rookies, something has to give. I know you want passrushers to come in waves but there’s still only so many snaps to go around. I really thought Carter looked like a legit starter last year before the injury, and I’ll stand by that. He can play.

Good list. For rising young vets I think you’re missing Thomas and Dex and maybe Gates. Vets on rebound, Martinez.

BillT said:

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Good list. For rising young vets I think you’re missing Thomas and Dex and maybe Gates. Vets on rebound, Martinez.

I assume you meant Hernandez. It’s tough, those people all look alike. 😉

In comment 15312778 Big Blue Blogger said:

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BillT said: Quote: Good list. For rising young vets I think you’re missing Thomas and Dex and maybe Gates. Vets on rebound, Martinez. I assume you meant Hernandez. It’s tough, those people all look alike. 😉

Ugh. Got me!

Number 1 battle for me followed by ER competition

In comment 15312986 Rick in Dallas said:

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Number 1 battle for me followed by ER competition

If this actually is a battle, we are sunk...

robbieballs2003 said:

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I'd be shocked if he makes the roster.

Ross got $1MM guaranteed. There might be potential offsets for the $500K of guaranteed salary, but just looking at contracts I would say he has the inside track on a roster spot if he’s healthy at the end of August (big if). There are only three locks at WR - maybe four if you count Slayton.

Hernandez vs Fulton.

Right tackle and right guard are the team's two weakest positions IMO, ergo those are the two battles that intrigue me the most.

In comment 15312678 ChicagoMarty said:

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Unless we are starting three safeties one of Peppers, McKinney or Ryan are going to have to sit to say nothing of Love.

Giants started five DBs the last seven games of the season.

Whether the fifth DB on the field is the third safety or the third (slot/nickel) cornerback is something that I think resists precise definition.

Ryan, Peppers and Mckinney started the last two weeks of the season designated as safeties. Their snap counts in the final game vs Dallas were 100%, 98% and 89%, respectively. Darnay Holmes had 31% of snaps as the sixth DB.

I presume Giants drafted Aaron Robinson because they weren't satisfied with Holmes; he will be in the mix competing for snaps as the fifth/sixth DB.

Robinson can handle bigger slots, were Holmes is better with smaller quicker slot wrs.

One size does not fit all.

In comment 15312662 Hilary said:

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I think Ross and Pettis are under rated. We have no idea what will be the role or performance of our first first round draft choice. The free agent spree this year makes it unlikely that Shepard or Engram will be back next year. I would not be surprised to see one of them or both moved to teams that develop injury problems at tight end or wide receiver.

Ross is over rated and Pettis is under rated.

In comment 15312747 robbieballs2003 said:

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I'd be shocked if he makes the roster.

Agreed. I really can't see what he brings to the table beyond speed. Speed is quite defensible in the NFL now. Haven't seen Ross cut into a crease, juke a defender or make a strong play on a contested ball. Realistically, if he's on the team how many times is he going to do something that makes you say "Wow, we need to keep this guy"?

I think they view Robinson differently than Holmes.

Robinson is a guy who can play slot, outside in a pinch, and I firmly believe he can play S if he gets enough reps for it. He's a physical player and I'm very happy they landed him.

Holmes is not going to be a guy who starts outside because he isn't strong enough against these bigger receivers. His position is primarily slot, but having so many good corners is a luxury.

different than what I've seen the Giants do in the past.

They doubled down in their young talent in a way I've never seen the Giants do.

For the first time they are backing up their young talent with some NFL proven talent that have shown they can at least hang in the NFL.

Players like Solder, Fulton, Ragland, Anderson, Ross, Pettis etc. are all players that will compete for starting jobs, but if injuries happen, or talent doesn't develop they can step in and do an admirable job.

In the past it seems that the vet depth just wasn't there and the Giants would just count on a guy like Peart getting better with no real backup plan.

In comment 15313158 Toth029 said:

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I think they view Robinson differently than Holmes. Robinson is a guy who can play slot, outside in a pinch, and I firmly believe he can play S if he gets enough reps for it. He's a physical player and I'm very happy they landed him. Holmes is not going to be a guy who starts outside because he isn't strong enough against these bigger receivers. His position is primarily slot, but having so many good corners is a luxury.

I would say the labels are not as significant as the number of DBs who can be on the field.

That's how I wound up talking about Holmes in a post that began with discussion of safeties.

When Holmes was starting and McKinney was hurt, and the Giants started five DBs, Holmes was called a slot.

When McKinney came back and the Giants started five DBs, McKinney was called a safety.

Did the Giants defense actually change, functionally speaking? Or just the labeling?

Bottom line is that McKinney took most of Holmes' snaps, even when he came back from injury.

And on top of that, the Giants then draft Robinson in the third round.

Robinson may be able to play outside but, barring injury, he's only going to do that if Jackson shifts to slot. Which doesn't do anything for Holmes' snaps.

I think the linked article is on point. Some of Holmes' coverage metrics weren't bad, but he didn't make many standout plays and had a number of penalties.

With the added competition, his outlook is unclear.

si.com - ( New Window )

And as I look at our group of WRs I don't really see any in the top six. I think one of those two makes the team over John Ross, and BBI is gonna explode.

and watch for our selves. So at least for me interest declines as we are more isolated from seeing our teams.
Nevertheless in general I would think that competition is most fierce in positions with most risk for team and level of players. I would think CB should have competition in backup slots but if all,is well the first three vb’s are pretty much decided.

So i go to the offensive line where it is hard for fans to judge because of my (our) ignorance of technique etc, and it is unusual for me to be looking at same things that coaches are and we don’t have film, multiple view film.

Yet here is the place where the teams future will in a large way be decided. Virtually every position, perhaps not LT, but the RT and inside positions are up for grabs. The players know it and the coaches know it. That There is a rookie OL coach will make the competition even fiercer. There will be a lot we could see, but the film and watching with a knowledgeable person would be great.

How do you grade ‘o’ line men, where does aggressiveness fit, smarts and instinct and how do you measure these. The techniques etc should be measurable by coaches but what is the scale.

Anyway that what I would try to find out about. We really need an offensive line.

Not exactly a battle since we pretty much know who is going to start but I think they're going to compete and try to one up each other. Should be fun

I want to see things like:

CB Holmes vs rookie CB Robinson - slot corners are hard to find and I think Holmes did well down the stretch. Will rookie Robinson, with the physical tools, challenge?

S Peppers / Ryan vs S McKinney - I see McKinney being use all over the field as a 3rd safety / slot guy / cover LB type hybrid. Will he win playing time in the main defense or garner snaps? Will there be a 3 safety rotation?

LB - except for Martinez, everything is a battle with no "for sure" clean cut winners coming into training camp. My gut says Carter starts OLB. I see us mixing it up a lot so the younger guys will get snaps. Hard to say until the first pre-season game is over where we are "on paper" at least.

WR Toney vs Shepard - no doubt in my mind a healthy Shepard has a big experience & route running advantage but lets face it: Shepard gets hurt all the time and is a concussion away from retirement. I think Toney will get worked in as the season moves along with the hope that by the last quarter of the season he can be counted on in the slot. Hope...its all we have until the games begin.

TE K. Smith vs rest. I think this kid just fell off a cliff last year as he didn't live up to expectations. Can he bounce back and be one of our four TE's?