With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
Only watched it once, that weekend, at my "friend's" house. He was kind of a loser (eagle fan) but he had that illegal black box so I would have to be fake nice to him in order to watch to watch Woodstock or WWF and WCW PPVs.
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
After all of these years, I'm surprised I don't hate Limp Bizkit. It's like, meh it's just music. Unimportant as to who likes what.
Left before the Chili Peppers set. It wasn’t bad while we were there. It was real hot and the crowd was certainly not in the peace, love and music mood. Certainly a big difference from ‘94 in Saugerties which I also attended.
and yes there were some real issues with how it was run but overall it was a fun weekend. The main thing I remember was just how HUGE the space was. Walking from the main stage to our tent took a long time. But the benefit was that it was very easy to avoid any craziness that might have been taking place.
The HBO documentary was pretty bad IMO. I like Wesley Morris and Steven Hyden - but I don't know why we need to hear so much from journalists who weren't even there. And there was way too much hot air about what it all "meant". You get that many drunken morons together with hardly any security, and you're going to have problems. I'm not sure it's representative of anything going on in the culrture at the time...
Had fun. I was 22 years old and I loved the chaos. The lineup was pretty amazing- only time in my life I saw James Brown live, for instance. It was rowdy, sure, but I'd been to plenty of shows where people came staggering out of the pit with blood pouring from their heads, so it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, and I didn't see the worst of what was supposed to have happened other than fires. The worst was supposed to be during RCHP and I wasn't watching them because Megadeth was playing the other stage at the same time.
Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.
The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.
was worse. But I had just graduated HS so it was fun at times. Still a shitshow looking back at it. The traffic was fucked - even worse than 1999. Give me an all day festival like Lollapalooza in 93 and 94 all day long. Those were awesome shows.
It was....meh. Tool was awesome, but there really wasn't anyone else I was dying to see. Devo was supposed to play but dropped off the the tour right before I was going, which sucked. Korn kinda sucked. There were a bunch of shitty techno acts that all sounded the same. Eels were pretty good. Snoop was kinda funny - seemed like half the rapping was done by the other guys on stage, none of whom I knew.
I ordered the event on PPV to watch with pals and recall it being underwhelming. The documentary bent over backwards to profligate this narrative of angry, white, middle-class, frat boys (ironically) raging against the progressive machine. DMX having his song repeated to him was called racist, three female performers was mysogynist, and white metal performers were accused of coopting more diverse genres.
Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.
Also the docu tries stubbornly hard to build it's female empowerment..
bonafides but completely trips over itself. There were a great number of egregious examples of sexual assault however the docu visually focused on very willing females displaying their breasts. Major difference and very insulting to victims of assault to have their trauma conflated with voluntary exposure.
Which is weird, because it should have been right up my alley. I think it was probably because I hated skaters so much and it was a very skateboard-oriented thing.
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.
Which is weird, because it should have been right up my alley. I think it was probably because I hated skaters so much and it was a very skateboard-oriented thing.
The first Warped Tour I went to was the last Warped Tour (2018) and it was completely badass. I went with my 14yo daughter and one of her friends.
Shoulda gone to so many more and don't know why I didn't. I guess because I was raising kids.
RE: Just watched and an easy example of political revisionist history...
I ordered the event on PPV to watch with pals and recall it being underwhelming. The documentary bent over backwards to profligate this narrative of angry, white, middle-class, frat boys (ironically) raging against the progressive machine. DMX having his song repeated to him was called racist, three female performers was mysogynist, and white metal performers were accused of coopting more diverse genres.
Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.
Oh ok. Yeah. Why wouldn't it? Big surprise.
I probably had more fun in one night in 1999 with everything going on than I did for the past 12 years combined. If I could pick a favorite year from my youth I'd be 1999. So much going on for a kid my age back then: Fun music with curses like Eminem, fun movies like South Park and American Pie, the y2K craze, the attitude era in WWF, Britney Spears half naked dancing, Yankee dynasty, beginning of the Sopranos, etc.
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.
Early Warped Tours had good acts as well as dross. It's kind of par for the course for big festival type tours.
He said the biggest issue was that it was very poorly organized and that everything from a concessions perspective was set up to gouge you pricewise. So add that to blazing heat and you kind of got what you got.
Had fun. I was 22 years old and I loved the chaos. The lineup was pretty amazing- only time in my life I saw James Brown live, for instance. It was rowdy, sure, but I'd been to plenty of shows where people came staggering out of the pit with blood pouring from their heads, so it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, and I didn't see the worst of what was supposed to have happened other than fires. The worst was supposed to be during RCHP and I wasn't watching them because Megadeth was playing the other stage at the same time.
Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.
The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.
I loved the RHCP, and their set was awesome. There were pockets of bad stuff, for sure, but on the whole it was fine. We watched the entire set without incident.
RE: Also the docu tries stubbornly hard to build it's female empowerment..
bonafides but completely trips over itself. There were a great number of egregious examples of sexual assault however the docu visually focused on very willing females displaying their breasts. Major difference and very insulting to victims of assault to have their trauma conflated with voluntary exposure.
I thought the same. While I was there, there were groups of guys yelling "show your t*ts" at EVERY girl that walked by. If a girl didn't, they ignored them and then yelled at the next one that walked by. Obviously not a healthy atmosphere, but I honestly don't think anyone was intimidated.
I do believe things got rough in the mosh pit for girls. That was just a dangerous scene all around for women (and men).
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.
one of them I went to also had Kid Rock, Hatebreed, NOFX, Pennywise, Rancid, Suicidal Tendencies - all had Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Dropkicks, Blink 182 - just fun shows.
or maybe I'm combining a couple of them memory is hazy from that era, but they definitely had a punk/ska slant to it more than Lollapalooza.
and the Warped Tour is all in one day and they traveled to you (or close to it), which made it logistically easier on a youngster.
covering it like a war zone and that was it for Woodstocks.
Certainly an interesting watch, but the narratives being hammered home were ridiculous.
A huge event, that’s relatively expensive, unbelievably hot, total lack of access to facilities and water, with the type of music that could certainly heighten the anger? Yeh that was the problem, not all those ridiculous things they tried to shoehorn.
I do think the MTV thing was interesting and actually something I didn’t realize at the time. How essentially the boy bands and child pop acts of the time did essentially steal MTV from them and give it to your little sister. The reaction they received from the crowd probably biased their coverage just a tad.
The managers came across as gross, especially that one dude. Blaming Limp Bizkit and chicks walking around topless for getting sexually assaulted, gross. It was a soulless cash grab and they cut corners everywhere, including security. The documentary got one part right, this was obvious from a mile away, and yet it still happened.
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.
I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.
I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.
Agree. Rage is fine, I have no use for limp bizkit or Metallica. I meant insane as in the crowd, atmosphere was pretty wild. Out of the entire weekend, it was the only thing that felt like it may get out of control.
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
the event was poorly planned and executed in terms of security, safety, and basic systems (e.g. water). I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
And while there have been several festivals that have taken place since then that have gone off without incident, I don't think there was a lot of them in the 90s that were across multiple days and had multiple acts. Phish had the Clifford Ball in 96, but that's obviously one band and was on a much smaller scale. Woodstock 94 might have been the only comparable festival in America prior to Woodstock 99.
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
I've worked so many concerts in my day and those Phish "mellow mushroom" dudes are the biggest litter bugs ever lol So many stupid fires have started because of poor fire negligence. Rage rock ... Eh?
I think the point is here is with poor security and nearly half a million people attending, some things are bound to happen and (that is a shame) but given the numbers of people and substandard security and planning, it's not as a large difficulty as they said it was.
I agree poor planning and security account for a lot of it. But I think you can certainly attach some blame to the acts and producers for creating an environment that egged people on.
I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.
The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.
I agree poor planning and security account for a lot of it. But I think you can certainly attach some blame to the acts and producers for creating an environment that egged people on.
I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.
The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.
even if you want to assign blame to Durst for egging people on, the "riot" took place the day after Limp Bizkit played. The main reason there were fires on the last night was because there was an activist group giving out thousands of candles Sunday afternoon.
As for the festival in SF you've mentioned, I'm going to assume the attendees go home or to a hotel after the event instead of camping out on site. And a quick google search tells me its a daytime event. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison.
I'm not making an apples to apples comparison. I'm saying lax security, heat, and the occasional naked breast don't typically make people burn a place down.
If your argument is uncomfortable camping and candles make people burn things down at the end -- better call of 6th Bible camp. Those tents sucked, and the vigils are pure d.a.n.g.e.r.
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
It really is a never ending headache we are experiencing.
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
+ Fucking 1,000
This documentary was horrible. What a race baiting POS.
Also, let’s focus on the 5 same musical acts because they are heavy metal, rap or hard music - ie not Crosby Stills Nash or Simon and Garfunkel. I mean, they could have easily highlighted DMB, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, RHCP, Jewel, Rusted Root - who were all massively popular at the time.
And then there was Moby - who was just bitter because his name was left off the stupid wooden plank that had the bands names listed. So, who better to wax poetic about the rapey culture of “frat boys” on the late 90s and Woodstock 99.
Not only has he been responsible for this turd (full disclosure - I don't subscribe so I haven't seen it, but all the descriptions sound terrible), but his stupid website actually did an EIGHT PART podcast on Woodstock '99 a few years ago! Eight goddamned hours?
Lol. Moby. I always love the dig that How I Met Your Mother threw at him. When they produced the New Year's Eve episode in 2005 and they thought that they ran into Moby. He explains to his kids in 2030 who Moby was as if it was just a foregone conclusion the world won't remember him.
Hell, the world forgot about that stain even in 2005. I remember I went to an Eminem concert in 2002 and Moby "floated away" and they shot him lol
I do give him credit though because he was ahead of his time. Some whiny hipster guy boring everyone about what to say and what not to say. Now you run into 100 of those in a single day and on every YouTube channel. Actually kind of outlandish to think that he strayed from the norm back then.
Ugh. Simpler times I guess? Well not really in the early 2000s
but he had long struggled with addiction and has been clean since 2018 apparently. I have a soft spot in my heart for people who have overcome that beast. And I also revise history a bit within that context. Been there. Done that. And he's an animal rights guy, which is a good thing. Idk.
There are a lot more scumbag musicians at these festivals than Moby.
But he hit it big and had bigger aspirations which he’s turned into reality it seems. Though I gave up on him after Grantland (was sold, went under, whatever happened to it). To me, he just doesn’t have the same edge now that he’s been on tv, doing podcasts, etc., which I assume comes with the territory.
I’m not saying I’m into Barstool or anything like that but there is a void between the mainstream corporation-based reporting and that which targets the LCD.
But once he left ESPN and started up his own gang through Grantland and The Ringer, he’s kind of cultivated an elitist sports/pop culture mentality via those who work/worked for him (with a few exceptions). So it’s no surprise to me that this Woodstock documentary took the direction it did when you have Steven Hyden and the rest involved with it.
then maybe stop bringing up other festivals where many aspects were completely different?
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I'm saying lax security, heat, and the occasional naked breast don't typically make people burn a place down.
based on your first post - it sure seems like you're blaming the likes Fred Durst, Metallica, and Kid Rock - which is absurd given there were no riots on teh days they played.
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If your argument is uncomfortable camping and candles make people burn things down at the end -- better call of 6th Bible camp. Those tents sucked, and the vigils are pure d.a.n.g.e.r.
calling the conditions at Woodstock 99 "uncomfortable camping" is quite the understatement, lol.
It was....meh. Tool was awesome, but there really wasn't anyone else I was dying to see. Devo was supposed to play but dropped off the the tour right before I was going, which sucked. Korn kinda sucked. There were a bunch of shitty techno acts that all sounded the same. Eels were pretty good. Snoop was kinda funny - seemed like half the rapping was done by the other guys on stage, none of whom I knew.
then maybe stop bringing up other festivals where many aspects were completely different?
I’m responding to your initial assertion that lax security and inadequate systems are the simple explanation — and I think that’s naive. I’ve been to plenty of festivals with lax security and inadequate accommodations — and no one burned anything down or raped anyone.
In terms of safety and perception of safety, I don’t think Collective Soul and Our Lady Peace fans are likely to be game for a metal show/fanbase and it’s a bad mix to include Godsmack and Megadeth on the same bill. I love Megadeth, but I know what I’m getting into typically if they are on the main stage at a festival. I can certainly see how a Collective Soul fan could be taken off guard, and I think that’s part of the bad PR.
In terms of low IQ dolts like Fred Durst and Kid Rock — I’m very comfortable laying some responsibility on them. If you bring an act on stage spouting misogynistic and/or ignorant violent rhetoric, and violence occurs in the moment or the next day, I’m willing to make the connection with the motivation and fanbase.
Never knew his background story. I never looked into him more than knowing that one song he did with Gwen Stefani and being Mr. Opinion on Eminem. He didn't exactly hypnotize anyone for being the most exciting person in the world.
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
I don't understand how you can invite Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock
and then not expect them to be Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock? Why isn't DMX getting any blame? Or any of the other aggro performers? The heat, lack of security, the piss poor facilities, lack of water, and then the music was probably the cherry on top. Of course, this all seems rather predictable, people are more aggressive when hot and you are going to have a concert in the middle of the summer on a tarmac with a bunch of aggresive performers and not hire adequate security was moronic. It was cutting corners to maximize profits, which was kind of the theme of the soulless cash grab that was Woodstock 99. The ironic part is with an iota of foresight, they could have cashed in for years and years.
Fun fact - I found out there were more deaths at the original woodstock than woodstock 99 today.
Never knew his background story. I never looked into him more than knowing that one song he did with Gwen Stefani and being Mr. Opinion on Eminem. He didn't exactly hypnotize anyone for being the most exciting person in the world.
I never thought much of him or about him but his remake of "That's When I Reach For My Revolver" is a good song.
Other than that the only reason I even know who Moby is was because he was allegedly maced and beaten outside the Paradise Club in Boston.
Moby is like 5 5" and 110 pounds, with the body of a frail old lady, I always found it curious who attacks that guy (and it wasn't a robbery or anything from what I read)
The heat, the poor conditions, and the price gouging were the main
culprits. The nature of many of the acts may have exacerbated things, ok, but absent the terrible planning and the weather I don' think it plays out the way it did
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
I wasn’t referring to Durst (thus and/or) — I was referring to Kid Rock. I believe the quote I caught in the documentary was something like “Monica Lewinsky is a fucking ho, and Bill Clinton is a goddamned pimp.” Excellent take there, Bob.
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
I wasn’t referring to Durst (thus and/or) — I was referring to Kid Rock. I believe the quote I caught in the documentary was something like “Monica Lewinsky is a fucking ho, and Bill Clinton is a goddamned pimp.” Excellent take there, Bob.
RE: I don't understand how you can invite Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock
Of course, this all seems rather predictable, people are more aggressive when hot and you are going to have a concert in the middle of the summer on a tarmac with a bunch of aggresive performers and not hire adequate security was moronic. It was cutting corners to maximize profits, which was kind of the theme of the soulless cash grab that was Woodstock 99.
That’s exactly it — you add all these factors together and you get a fiasco.
As fucking brain dead as Kid Rock and Fred Durst are, their shows don’t all end in sexual assaults and fires.
You pull any of the variables out, and the outcome is much different.
Sure — maybe at the time that wasn’t a completely sensibility offending comment. But Kid Rock’s entire act at that point was dipshit instigator who said and performed brain dead things to get attention and stir things up.
Can’t be surprised when the fan base of an idiot gets stirred up when the idiot stirs them up.
I feel pretty confident being right in any argument where I’m on the side of calling Kid Rock a moron.
who were booked for a gig and proceeded to perform in accordance with the way their act was known seems silly to me.
The organizers should have known what they were getting with ICP, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock types - its no secret. Like booking Phish and being offended by the odour.
In defense of Woodstock '99 - at least none of the acts almost got electrocuted to death!
who were booked for a gig and proceeded to perform in accordance with the way their act was known seems silly to me.
The organizers should have known what they were getting with ICP, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock types - its no secret. Like booking Phish and being offended by the odour.
In defense of Woodstock '99 - at least none of the acts almost got electrocuted to death!
I'm definitely not blaming the artists for the outcomes, though being a dip shit is certainly blame worthy on a more universal scale.
The blame definitely lies with the promoters and organizers.
but at least on this thread I haven't seen anyone actually blame the criminal criminals - you know the fans who actually committed the sexual assaults, rapes, thefts, vandalism, arsons, etc. only other criminals like the organizers and the acts (which is a pretty weak shirking of accountability - Fred Durst said to break stuff so I'm going to rape someone and start a fire)...
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Hey man, leave the kids alone. I've had enough of the frenzied demonization of young people surrounding Woodstock '99. Yes, Woodstock was filled with predators: the degenerate idiots who assaulted those women, the greedy promoters who wrung every cent out of thirsty concertgoers, and last but not least, the predator media that turned a blind eye to real violence and scapegoated the quarter of a million music fans at Woodstock '99, the vast majority of whom had the time of their lives.
Kid Rock is kind of a good example of what happens when you start
maligning massive groups of people that are essentially powerless. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that the mid to late 90s is the first time there was this demonization of all white dudes. Meanwhile the working poor and middle class white dudes are like staring at each other like what the fuck did I do. I think that's where a lot of the anger in popular music is coming from. I mean look at Sheryl Crow's statement to MTV at the time, which was virtue signaling her audience before that was even a term (who dated a notorious racist and has a song that romanticizes him in song, essentially the only reason they broke up was because he cheated).
Is Kid Rock a piece of shit? Yeah probably, but he's just a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. It was blowback and something we see ratcheted up 1000 today. Music becomes popular just tends to be a reflection of what people want, not the artists themselves (although for the most part, it takes talent to get to that point).
The documentary does get a couple of things right, that these issues are much harder to solve than the symptoms, so the symptoms get demonized. Also, people in large groups are going to be susceptible to the mob mentality and are going to do things completely out of character (or at least extremely exaggerated). This we know is backed by solid science.
is a human right, but it's also not a good look and in many cases makes you look worse judging people (who you don't really know) than the people you're judging.
Not only has he been responsible for this turd (full disclosure - I don't subscribe so I haven't seen it, but all the descriptions sound terrible), but his stupid website actually did an EIGHT PART podcast on Woodstock '99 a few years ago! Eight goddamned hours?
Is that true? The Ringer did an eight hour podcast on Woodstock '99? I wouldn't listen to an eight hour podcast on the original Woodstock, much less than the one in '99.
I said this before and I'll say it again. When I was a kid all of the adults complained about Eminem and his lyrics. Now I'm an adult and all the kids are complaining about his lyrics.
Same with Limp Bizkit and their shenanigans. Pretty interesting window to grow up during, I'd say.
Durst and his band make a very convenient scapegoat. Virtually no one will admit to being a fan of theirs anymore. Durst has been an object of ridicule for quite a while now. So, you can hurl pretty any accusation at them.
I don’t know much about the individuals who acted like idiots in the crowd, but I do know from people in the industry Kid Rock is asshole bozo (shouldn’t shock anyone), I know John Scher is gutless dork, and Michael Lang is a decent guy who’s made a number of bad business decisions and partnerships.
In my view there are two elements of responsibility — the organizers and acts who set the stage, and the individual idiots in the crowd who did things on a spectrum from irresponsible to reprehensible.
I completely believe the accounts from the organizers they asked a number of performers, including Durst and Kid Rock to chill out because security wasn’t keeping up, and instead they acted like dicks.
This has been his kick lately - that 99 was this watershed year that led to where we are today. Maybe he saw the success of LJ Wertheim's Glory Days book on 1984 and wanted to ride that wave, I don't know. He and Chris Ryan seem to sometimes have lived in a different world than I have.
I don't find Woodstock 99 to be that culturally significant, it was Fyre Fest with major corporate sponsors and MTV.
This has been his kick lately - that 99 was this watershed year that led to where we are today. Maybe he saw the success of LJ Wertheim's Glory Days book on 1984 and wanted to ride that wave, I don't know. He and Chris Ryan seem to sometimes have lived in a different world than I have.
I don't find Woodstock 99 to be that culturally significant, it was Fyre Fest with major corporate sponsors and MTV.
That's a really stupid thesis then - Woodstock '99 was a blip. I think I can remember one cultural reference to it ever - a Simpsons joke where Otto says he met his fiancee during "the summer of love - Woodstock '99" amidst a flashback of fires and rampaging mobs.
That's it. Can't think of another one. It happened, it was a story for a little while afterward, and then it was largely forgotten.
do I get the impression that a poster actually believes that something Kid Rock said inspired a person a day or days later to go sexually assault someone?
Also, I've seen that comparison to Fyre Fest more than a few times
And while it would seem to be an easy comparison, Fyre Fest was a straight-up scam. It didn't actually happen. Woodstock 99 was very poorly executed, but the attendees did see a lot of great music (and some terrible music too). You just had to endure blast-furnace heat, no bathrooms, and $6 bottles of water to see it.
than people give him credit for. I saw an interview with him for one of his movies (he's a director), where he explicitly states that "Fred Durst in the Red Hat is a character". His demeanor and tone is completely different.
He isn't the greatest musician, which he admits -- but he is a frontman and someone who has a natural penchant for being an entertainer. He surrounded himself with great musicians (whether you love or hate Limp Bizkit, Wes Borland is an incredible guitarist) and basically was going to find a way to make himself famous within the entertainment industry one way or the other.
He played the game.
Having said that, he absolutely can still be a huge dick at times and went through a massive streak of being a bully in the late 90s before it all fell apart for Limp Bizkit's mainstream popularity in the early 00s, as nu metal faded and pop punk/emo + 2001 revival bands started taking over the (admittedly shrinking) spotlight that rock music occupied in public consciousness
Or Bob, as he called him. He actually was a rich kid - dad owned a car dealership, which is kind of hilarious. Said he wasn't a bad guy but he wanted to be a rapper, which doesn't really work if you're a rich white kid, so he constructed this ridiculous persona for himself.
I hated Limp Bizkit so very much in those days, but the piling on it they have received over Woodstock makes me much more sympathetic. As far as aggressive bands and onstage antics go, I watched Rage set fire to an American flag on stage. That's kind of incendiary, no? And they certainly didn't play mellow music. Yet they escape blame because their politics are more to the liking of music journalists, compared to the easily scapegoated meatheads of Limp Bizkit.
The more we talk about it, the sillier this stupid documentary sounds.
What was described about Kid Rock above was actually what I always heard about Rage Against the Machine. Maybe just the singer? I think his dad was a dentist and he was a big-time yuppie and then just talked about revolting in blah blah blah then went home to his mansion.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
What was described about Kid Rock above was actually what I always heard about Rage Against the Machine. Maybe just the singer? I think his dad was a dentist and he was a big-time yuppie and then just talked about revolting in blah blah blah then went home to his mansion.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
Yeh this weird idea we have in this country that individual success is built from pure talent and hard work is a weird one. The only thing you see that is in sports, essentially every other career is built based on the success of the prior generation of parents, especially something like music. It’s massively disproportional the amount of well known artists that came from privileged backgrounds.
I think the message of the documentary was sloppy, and it's sloppy to draw straight lines between cause and effect.
The weather, the tents, the cost of water, the acts, and the promoters didn't make anyone do anything.
But history is littered with examples of people doing things they otherwise wouldn't given the right circumstances and the right encouragement.
I think it's worth wondering if:
1) staging an event with poor facilities in the heat
2) not providing adequate security
3) booking acts who create a market for stupidity or worse
4) booking acts who create a market for rebellion or worse
5) not dialing down the antagonizing when it was clear security was failing
What was described about Kid Rock above was actually what I always heard about Rage Against the Machine. Maybe just the singer? I think his dad was a dentist and he was a big-time yuppie and then just talked about revolting in blah blah blah then went home to his mansion.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
Maybe Dr. Dexter Holland - the singer/lead guitarist from the Offspring?
He was his class valedictorian, full ride to USC and now has a doctorate in molecular biology.
doesn't mean he can't be a punk rocker. Angst is angst. right?
the Clash, specifically Joe Strummer, struggled with this concept as the band became more successful. Strummer did not have a wealthy upbringing but was solidly middle class, not exactly oppressed/etc.
Didn't say it as if it were unimaginable for someone to be smart and shit but you do kind of have to roll your eyes a bit. They were the ones who had an anarchy symbol on their jet?
I think that guitarist from Green Day (Mike Dirnt) is just a big snob with tattoos who plays pop punk rock.
Didn't say it as if it were unimaginable for someone to be smart and shit but you do kind of have to roll your eyes a bit. They were the ones who had an anarchy symbol on their jet?
I think that guitarist from Green Day (Mike Dirnt) is just a big snob with tattoos who plays pop punk rock.
Its a performance. Tom Waits isn't an alcoholic living in a flophouse - doesn't detract from the persona or the performance.
Sure but the whole image/scene of punk rock is sleeping in a British apartment with 16 people on the floor, not some rich boy in California talking about the system and ... You know. They're posers lol
Sorry I just read a lot of Vice magazine back in the day. Ha.
Mick Jones didn't have much of a different upbringing than Strummer other than being a non-practicing (I think) jew and dealing with the oppression of that in London .
yet they could preach all day about "the man" and had credibility.
Unless you grew up like Sid Vicious you're probably not writing/singing from experience.
I think the poser angle is more relevant in hip hop or rap than punk.
I think as it pertains to Rage, I think having that type of upbringing
can open your eyes to the type of shit they rant about. As long as they aren’t hypocrites and by all accounts they definitely aren’t. I don’t think you need to feel oppression to see it and advocate against it, it’s called empathy, something sorely lacking.
RE: I think as it pertains to Rage, I think having that type of upbringing
I don’t think you need to feel oppression to see it and advocate against it, it’s called empathy, something sorely lacking.
Yeah but this part here is where I am a bit dubious. Are they really empathetic? I'm pretty sure a handful of them don't really care and just want to make quick, lazy way to make money to reach a bunch of dumb kids who don't know any better.
Please. Not a day goes by where I don't hear the word empathy. I hate the "care" era lol
They're communists who have spent their entire careers making millions on a label owned by a massive multinational corporation. I enjoy the music despite their politics, which I find repugnant, but they are enormous hypocrites.
Mick Jones didn't have much of a different upbringing than Strummer other than being a non-practicing (I think) jew and dealing with the oppression of that in London .
yet they could preach all day about "the man" and had credibility.
Unless you grew up like Sid Vicious you're probably not writing/singing from experience.
I think the poser angle is more relevant in hip hop or rap than punk.
What I said was actually a response to someone above criticizing and being skeptical of Kid Rock's background. I was just adding to the discussion "yeah. not all of these guys come from bumpy upbringing and are phonies."
Yeah. I used to have so much info on rappers and how they had rich parents talking about how they grew up in the middle of the hood, or whatever.
Now? 20+ years later, I highly doubt I can even remember half their names. Rap is kind of corny. Well, the rap I grew up with. I have 0 idea of what is popular today. I don't even want to know.
They're communists who have spent their entire careers making millions on a label owned by a massive multinational corporation. I enjoy the music despite their politics, which I find repugnant, but they are enormous hypocrites.
Are they really communists though, or do they just wear the shirts? I don't think they have anything against making money, just hoarding it. Against the people in power using their leverage against the work force, using the system to gain on the backs of others, keeping the working classes down, etc. These guys could have made a ton more than they did, are very philanthropic, and don't gouge their customers. They are more against systemic issues that keep people down and enrich some at the expense of others. Nobody is forcing people to go to their shows or buy the merchandise, and they keep the prices reasonable for their fanbase.
I remember liking it at the time, in 99. Boobs.
After all of these years, I'm surprised I don't hate Limp Bizkit. It's like, meh it's just music. Unimportant as to who likes what.
The HBO documentary was pretty bad IMO. I like Wesley Morris and Steven Hyden - but I don't know why we need to hear so much from journalists who weren't even there. And there was way too much hot air about what it all "meant". You get that many drunken morons together with hardly any security, and you're going to have problems. I'm not sure it's representative of anything going on in the culrture at the time...
Agree completely.
Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.
The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.
Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.
1998-2000 peak warped tour (also I may have been the oldest person there at RFK)
The first Warped Tour I went to was the last Warped Tour (2018) and it was completely badass. I went with my 14yo daughter and one of her friends.
Shoulda gone to so many more and don't know why I didn't. I guess because I was raising kids.
Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.
Oh ok. Yeah. Why wouldn't it? Big surprise.
I probably had more fun in one night in 1999 with everything going on than I did for the past 12 years combined. If I could pick a favorite year from my youth I'd be 1999. So much going on for a kid my age back then: Fun music with curses like Eminem, fun movies like South Park and American Pie, the y2K craze, the attitude era in WWF, Britney Spears half naked dancing, Yankee dynasty, beginning of the Sopranos, etc.
lol thinking Phantom Menace would be good.
Early Warped Tours had good acts as well as dross. It's kind of par for the course for big festival type tours.
Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.
The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.
I loved the RHCP, and their set was awesome. There were pockets of bad stuff, for sure, but on the whole it was fine. We watched the entire set without incident.
I thought the same. While I was there, there were groups of guys yelling "show your t*ts" at EVERY girl that walked by. If a girl didn't, they ignored them and then yelled at the next one that walked by. Obviously not a healthy atmosphere, but I honestly don't think anyone was intimidated.
I do believe things got rough in the mosh pit for girls. That was just a dangerous scene all around for women (and men).
1998-2000 peak warped tour (also I may have been the oldest person there at RFK)
eh, Warped Tour 96 (I saw it at Action Park) was pretty damn memorable. Pennywise, NOFX, Face to Face....
one of them I went to also had Kid Rock, Hatebreed, NOFX, Pennywise, Rancid, Suicidal Tendencies - all had Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Dropkicks, Blink 182 - just fun shows.
or maybe I'm combining a couple of them memory is hazy from that era, but they definitely had a punk/ska slant to it more than Lollapalooza.
and the Warped Tour is all in one day and they traveled to you (or close to it), which made it logistically easier on a youngster.
while I was there, my one friend's mother recorded the whole thing for us so that we could watch it when we came back, lol.
Certainly an interesting watch, but the narratives being hammered home were ridiculous.
A huge event, that’s relatively expensive, unbelievably hot, total lack of access to facilities and water, with the type of music that could certainly heighten the anger? Yeh that was the problem, not all those ridiculous things they tried to shoehorn.
I do think the MTV thing was interesting and actually something I didn’t realize at the time. How essentially the boy bands and child pop acts of the time did essentially steal MTV from them and give it to your little sister. The reaction they received from the crowd probably biased their coverage just a tad.
The managers came across as gross, especially that one dude. Blaming Limp Bizkit and chicks walking around topless for getting sexually assaulted, gross. It was a soulless cash grab and they cut corners everywhere, including security. The documentary got one part right, this was obvious from a mile away, and yet it still happened.
We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.
I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.
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With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.
I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.
Agree. Rage is fine, I have no use for limp bizkit or Metallica. I meant insane as in the crowd, atmosphere was pretty wild. Out of the entire weekend, it was the only thing that felt like it may get out of control.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
the event was poorly planned and executed in terms of security, safety, and basic systems (e.g. water). I don't think it's any more complicated than that.
And while there have been several festivals that have taken place since then that have gone off without incident, I don't think there was a lot of them in the 90s that were across multiple days and had multiple acts. Phish had the Clifford Ball in 96, but that's obviously one band and was on a much smaller scale. Woodstock 94 might have been the only comparable festival in America prior to Woodstock 99.
I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.
I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.
The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.
And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
I've worked so many concerts in my day and those Phish "mellow mushroom" dudes are the biggest litter bugs ever lol So many stupid fires have started because of poor fire negligence. Rage rock ... Eh?
I think the point is here is with poor security and nearly half a million people attending, some things are bound to happen and (that is a shame) but given the numbers of people and substandard security and planning, it's not as a large difficulty as they said it was.
I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.
The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.
I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.
The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.
even if you want to assign blame to Durst for egging people on, the "riot" took place the day after Limp Bizkit played. The main reason there were fires on the last night was because there was an activist group giving out thousands of candles Sunday afternoon.
As for the festival in SF you've mentioned, I'm going to assume the attendees go home or to a hotel after the event instead of camping out on site. And a quick google search tells me its a daytime event. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison.
If your argument is uncomfortable camping and candles make people burn things down at the end -- better call of 6th Bible camp. Those tents sucked, and the vigils are pure d.a.n.g.e.r.
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
It really is a never ending headache we are experiencing.
Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
+ Fucking 1,000
This documentary was horrible. What a race baiting POS.
Also, let’s focus on the 5 same musical acts because they are heavy metal, rap or hard music - ie not Crosby Stills Nash or Simon and Garfunkel. I mean, they could have easily highlighted DMB, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, RHCP, Jewel, Rusted Root - who were all massively popular at the time.
And then there was Moby - who was just bitter because his name was left off the stupid wooden plank that had the bands names listed. So, who better to wax poetic about the rapey culture of “frat boys” on the late 90s and Woodstock 99.
Also awesome to see them tie in Columbine. Wow.
Holy shit, what a horrible documentary.
Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.
Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.
Bill Simmons, so you know it's trash
Quote:
clownshoes documentary?
Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.
Bill Simmons, so you know it's trash
Trying to somehow become quasi relevant again? Why am I not surprised? Dude is a toilet bug.
Hell, the world forgot about that stain even in 2005. I remember I went to an Eminem concert in 2002 and Moby "floated away" and they shot him lol
I do give him credit though because he was ahead of his time. Some whiny hipster guy boring everyone about what to say and what not to say. Now you run into 100 of those in a single day and on every YouTube channel. Actually kind of outlandish to think that he strayed from the norm back then.
Ugh. Simpler times I guess? Well not really in the early 2000s
There are a lot more scumbag musicians at these festivals than Moby.
But he hit it big and had bigger aspirations which he’s turned into reality it seems. Though I gave up on him after Grantland (was sold, went under, whatever happened to it). To me, he just doesn’t have the same edge now that he’s been on tv, doing podcasts, etc., which I assume comes with the territory.
I’m not saying I’m into Barstool or anything like that but there is a void between the mainstream corporation-based reporting and that which targets the LCD.
But once he left ESPN and started up his own gang through Grantland and The Ringer, he’s kind of cultivated an elitist sports/pop culture mentality via those who work/worked for him (with a few exceptions). So it’s no surprise to me that this Woodstock documentary took the direction it did when you have Steven Hyden and the rest involved with it.
then maybe stop bringing up other festivals where many aspects were completely different?
based on your first post - it sure seems like you're blaming the likes Fred Durst, Metallica, and Kid Rock - which is absurd given there were no riots on teh days they played.
calling the conditions at Woodstock 99 "uncomfortable camping" is quite the understatement, lol.
And when they had a song in a Ben Stiller movie.
Quote:
I'm not making an apples to apples comparison.
then maybe stop bringing up other festivals where many aspects were completely different?
I’m responding to your initial assertion that lax security and inadequate systems are the simple explanation — and I think that’s naive. I’ve been to plenty of festivals with lax security and inadequate accommodations — and no one burned anything down or raped anyone.
In terms of safety and perception of safety, I don’t think Collective Soul and Our Lady Peace fans are likely to be game for a metal show/fanbase and it’s a bad mix to include Godsmack and Megadeth on the same bill. I love Megadeth, but I know what I’m getting into typically if they are on the main stage at a festival. I can certainly see how a Collective Soul fan could be taken off guard, and I think that’s part of the bad PR.
In terms of low IQ dolts like Fred Durst and Kid Rock — I’m very comfortable laying some responsibility on them. If you bring an act on stage spouting misogynistic and/or ignorant violent rhetoric, and violence occurs in the moment or the next day, I’m willing to make the connection with the motivation and fanbase.
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
Fun fact - I found out there were more deaths at the original woodstock than woodstock 99 today.
I never thought much of him or about him but his remake of "That's When I Reach For My Revolver" is a good song.
Other than that the only reason I even know who Moby is was because he was allegedly maced and beaten outside the Paradise Club in Boston.
Moby is like 5 5" and 110 pounds, with the body of a frail old lady, I always found it curious who attacks that guy (and it wasn't a robbery or anything from what I read)
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
I wasn’t referring to Durst (thus and/or) — I was referring to Kid Rock. I believe the quote I caught in the documentary was something like “Monica Lewinsky is a fucking ho, and Bill Clinton is a goddamned pimp.” Excellent take there, Bob.
Quote:
misogynistic ...
Forgive me, and it's been 22 years since I watched the performance (and that word is used more times a day than the word "chair") but what exactly did durst say that was misogynistic?
I wasn’t referring to Durst (thus and/or) — I was referring to Kid Rock. I believe the quote I caught in the documentary was something like “Monica Lewinsky is a fucking ho, and Bill Clinton is a goddamned pimp.” Excellent take there, Bob.
That’s exactly it — you add all these factors together and you get a fiasco.
As fucking brain dead as Kid Rock and Fred Durst are, their shows don’t all end in sexual assaults and fires.
You pull any of the variables out, and the outcome is much different.
Can’t be surprised when the fan base of an idiot gets stirred up when the idiot stirs them up.
I feel pretty confident being right in any argument where I’m on the side of calling Kid Rock a moron.
The organizers should have known what they were getting with ICP, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock types - its no secret. Like booking Phish and being offended by the odour.
In defense of Woodstock '99 - at least none of the acts almost got electrocuted to death!
The organizers should have known what they were getting with ICP, Limp Bizkit, Kid Rock types - its no secret. Like booking Phish and being offended by the odour.
In defense of Woodstock '99 - at least none of the acts almost got electrocuted to death!
I'm definitely not blaming the artists for the outcomes, though being a dip shit is certainly blame worthy on a more universal scale.
The blame definitely lies with the promoters and organizers.
Hey man, leave the kids alone. I've had enough of the frenzied demonization of young people surrounding Woodstock '99. Yes, Woodstock was filled with predators: the degenerate idiots who assaulted those women, the greedy promoters who wrung every cent out of thirsty concertgoers, and last but not least, the predator media that turned a blind eye to real violence and scapegoated the quarter of a million music fans at Woodstock '99, the vast majority of whom had the time of their lives.
Is Kid Rock a piece of shit? Yeah probably, but he's just a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. It was blowback and something we see ratcheted up 1000 today. Music becomes popular just tends to be a reflection of what people want, not the artists themselves (although for the most part, it takes talent to get to that point).
The documentary does get a couple of things right, that these issues are much harder to solve than the symptoms, so the symptoms get demonized. Also, people in large groups are going to be susceptible to the mob mentality and are going to do things completely out of character (or at least extremely exaggerated). This we know is backed by solid science.
Is that true? The Ringer did an eight hour podcast on Woodstock '99? I wouldn't listen to an eight hour podcast on the original Woodstock, much less than the one in '99.
Same with Limp Bizkit and their shenanigans. Pretty interesting window to grow up during, I'd say.
Durst and his band make a very convenient scapegoat. Virtually no one will admit to being a fan of theirs anymore. Durst has been an object of ridicule for quite a while now. So, you can hurl pretty any accusation at them.
In my view there are two elements of responsibility — the organizers and acts who set the stage, and the individual idiots in the crowd who did things on a spectrum from irresponsible to reprehensible.
I completely believe the accounts from the organizers they asked a number of performers, including Durst and Kid Rock to chill out because security wasn’t keeping up, and instead they acted like dicks.
I don't find Woodstock 99 to be that culturally significant, it was Fyre Fest with major corporate sponsors and MTV.
I don't find Woodstock 99 to be that culturally significant, it was Fyre Fest with major corporate sponsors and MTV.
That's a really stupid thesis then - Woodstock '99 was a blip. I think I can remember one cultural reference to it ever - a Simpsons joke where Otto says he met his fiancee during "the summer of love - Woodstock '99" amidst a flashback of fires and rampaging mobs.
That's it. Can't think of another one. It happened, it was a story for a little while afterward, and then it was largely forgotten.
He isn't the greatest musician, which he admits -- but he is a frontman and someone who has a natural penchant for being an entertainer. He surrounded himself with great musicians (whether you love or hate Limp Bizkit, Wes Borland is an incredible guitarist) and basically was going to find a way to make himself famous within the entertainment industry one way or the other.
He played the game.
Having said that, he absolutely can still be a huge dick at times and went through a massive streak of being a bully in the late 90s before it all fell apart for Limp Bizkit's mainstream popularity in the early 00s, as nu metal faded and pop punk/emo + 2001 revival bands started taking over the (admittedly shrinking) spotlight that rock music occupied in public consciousness
I’m definitely working out some feelings of hate for Kid Rock I didn’t know were in there!
I hated Limp Bizkit so very much in those days, but the piling on it they have received over Woodstock makes me much more sympathetic. As far as aggressive bands and onstage antics go, I watched Rage set fire to an American flag on stage. That's kind of incendiary, no? And they certainly didn't play mellow music. Yet they escape blame because their politics are more to the liking of music journalists, compared to the easily scapegoated meatheads of Limp Bizkit.
The more we talk about it, the sillier this stupid documentary sounds.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
Yeh this weird idea we have in this country that individual success is built from pure talent and hard work is a weird one. The only thing you see that is in sports, essentially every other career is built based on the success of the prior generation of parents, especially something like music. It’s massively disproportional the amount of well known artists that came from privileged backgrounds.
RIP Ass Dan - ( New Window )
The weather, the tents, the cost of water, the acts, and the promoters didn't make anyone do anything.
But history is littered with examples of people doing things they otherwise wouldn't given the right circumstances and the right encouragement.
I think it's worth wondering if:
1) staging an event with poor facilities in the heat
2) not providing adequate security
3) booking acts who create a market for stupidity or worse
4) booking acts who create a market for rebellion or worse
5) not dialing down the antagonizing when it was clear security was failing
contribute to individuals making bad decisions.
I always got the impression that those Southern California punk rock (or whatever) bands were of the same nature.
I think a lot of these celebrity musicians don't live or have the background they lead on.
Maybe Dr. Dexter Holland - the singer/lead guitarist from the Offspring?
He was his class valedictorian, full ride to USC and now has a doctorate in molecular biology.
doesn't mean he can't be a punk rocker. Angst is angst. right?
the Clash, specifically Joe Strummer, struggled with this concept as the band became more successful. Strummer did not have a wealthy upbringing but was solidly middle class, not exactly oppressed/etc.
I think that guitarist from Green Day (Mike Dirnt) is just a big snob with tattoos who plays pop punk rock.
I think that guitarist from Green Day (Mike Dirnt) is just a big snob with tattoos who plays pop punk rock.
Its a performance. Tom Waits isn't an alcoholic living in a flophouse - doesn't detract from the persona or the performance.
Sure but the whole image/scene of punk rock is sleeping in a British apartment with 16 people on the floor, not some rich boy in California talking about the system and ... You know. They're posers lol
Sorry I just read a lot of Vice magazine back in the day. Ha.
Mick Jones didn't have much of a different upbringing than Strummer other than being a non-practicing (I think) jew and dealing with the oppression of that in London .
yet they could preach all day about "the man" and had credibility.
Unless you grew up like Sid Vicious you're probably not writing/singing from experience.
I think the poser angle is more relevant in hip hop or rap than punk.
Yeah but this part here is where I am a bit dubious. Are they really empathetic? I'm pretty sure a handful of them don't really care and just want to make quick, lazy way to make money to reach a bunch of dumb kids who don't know any better.
Please. Not a day goes by where I don't hear the word empathy. I hate the "care" era lol
Mick Jones didn't have much of a different upbringing than Strummer other than being a non-practicing (I think) jew and dealing with the oppression of that in London .
yet they could preach all day about "the man" and had credibility.
Unless you grew up like Sid Vicious you're probably not writing/singing from experience.
I think the poser angle is more relevant in hip hop or rap than punk.
What I said was actually a response to someone above criticizing and being skeptical of Kid Rock's background. I was just adding to the discussion "yeah. not all of these guys come from bumpy upbringing and are phonies."
Now? 20+ years later, I highly doubt I can even remember half their names. Rap is kind of corny. Well, the rap I grew up with. I have 0 idea of what is popular today. I don't even want to know.
Are they really communists though, or do they just wear the shirts? I don't think they have anything against making money, just hoarding it. Against the people in power using their leverage against the work force, using the system to gain on the backs of others, keeping the working classes down, etc. These guys could have made a ton more than they did, are very philanthropic, and don't gouge their customers. They are more against systemic issues that keep people down and enrich some at the expense of others. Nobody is forcing people to go to their shows or buy the merchandise, and they keep the prices reasonable for their fanbase.