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NFT: Woodstock 99 on HBO Max

Sean : 7/25/2021 7:39 pm
Currently watching this right now. I knew it was bad, but did not think it was this bad. Wow.

Were any BBI’ers there?
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I was there  
WahooGiant : 7/25/2021 8:35 pm : link
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.
I was there too  
Bricktop : 7/25/2021 8:44 pm : link
Then bounced and watched the rest on PPV. Wasted almost an entire day from Albany just driving. What a complete clownshoes disaster.
Hard no.  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 7/25/2021 8:49 pm : link
.
......  
Route 9 : 7/25/2021 9:16 pm : link
Only watched it once, that weekend, at my "friend's" house. He was kind of a loser (eagle fan) but he had that illegal black box so I would have to be fake nice to him in order to watch to watch Woodstock or WWF and WCW PPVs.

I remember liking it at the time, in 99. Boobs.
RE: I was there  
Route 9 : 7/25/2021 9:18 pm : link
In comment 15313005 WahooGiant said:
Quote:
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.


After all of these years, I'm surprised I don't hate Limp Bizkit. It's like, meh it's just music. Unimportant as to who likes what.
I was there...and  
Grey Pilgrim : 7/25/2021 9:19 pm : link
It was AWESOME!
I was there on Sunday.  
RDJR : 7/25/2021 9:20 pm : link
Left before the Chili Peppers set. It wasn’t bad while we were there. It was real hot and the crowd was certainly not in the peace, love and music mood. Certainly a big difference from ‘94 in Saugerties which I also attended.
I was there  
Enzo : 7/25/2021 9:27 pm : link
and yes there were some real issues with how it was run but overall it was a fun weekend. The main thing I remember was just how HUGE the space was. Walking from the main stage to our tent took a long time. But the benefit was that it was very easy to avoid any craziness that might have been taking place.

The HBO documentary was pretty bad IMO. I like Wesley Morris and Steven Hyden - but I don't know why we need to hear so much from journalists who weren't even there. And there was way too much hot air about what it all "meant". You get that many drunken morons together with hardly any security, and you're going to have problems. I'm not sure it's representative of anything going on in the culrture at the time...
RE: I was there  
Enzo : 7/25/2021 9:29 pm : link
In comment 15313005 WahooGiant said:
Quote:
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous."

Agree completely.
I was there  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2021 9:59 pm : link
Had fun. I was 22 years old and I loved the chaos. The lineup was pretty amazing- only time in my life I saw James Brown live, for instance. It was rowdy, sure, but I'd been to plenty of shows where people came staggering out of the pit with blood pouring from their heads, so it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, and I didn't see the worst of what was supposed to have happened other than fires. The worst was supposed to be during RCHP and I wasn't watching them because Megadeth was playing the other stage at the same time.

Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.

The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.
1994 in Saugerties  
Bricktop : 7/25/2021 10:05 pm : link
was worse. But I had just graduated HS so it was fun at times. Still a shitshow looking back at it. The traffic was fucked - even worse than 1999. Give me an all day festival like Lollapalooza in 93 and 94 all day long. Those were awesome shows.
I went to Lollapalooza '97  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2021 10:11 pm : link
It was....meh. Tool was awesome, but there really wasn't anyone else I was dying to see. Devo was supposed to play but dropped off the the tour right before I was going, which sucked. Korn kinda sucked. There were a bunch of shitty techno acts that all sounded the same. Eels were pretty good. Snoop was kinda funny - seemed like half the rapping was done by the other guys on stage, none of whom I knew.
Can't compare the lineups  
Bricktop : 7/25/2021 10:14 pm : link
From 93/94 to 1997. Especially 1993. Just a ridiculous roster on all stages.
I was too young for those years  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2021 10:16 pm : link
No way mom was letting me go to something like that.
Just watched and an easy example of political revisionist history...  
BurberryManning : 7/25/2021 11:27 pm : link
I ordered the event on PPV to watch with pals and recall it being underwhelming. The documentary bent over backwards to profligate this narrative of angry, white, middle-class, frat boys (ironically) raging against the progressive machine. DMX having his song repeated to him was called racist, three female performers was mysogynist, and white metal performers were accused of coopting more diverse genres.

Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.
Also the docu tries stubbornly hard to build it's female empowerment..  
BurberryManning : 7/25/2021 11:31 pm : link
bonafides but completely trips over itself. There were a great number of egregious examples of sexual assault however the docu visually focused on very willing females displaying their breasts. Major difference and very insulting to victims of assault to have their trauma conflated with voluntary exposure.
Warped  
pjcas18 : 7/25/2021 11:34 pm : link
Tour > lollapalooza

1998-2000 peak warped tour (also I may have been the oldest person there at RFK)
never did go to the Warped Tour  
Greg from LI : 7/25/2021 11:48 pm : link
Which is weird, because it should have been right up my alley. I think it was probably because I hated skaters so much and it was a very skateboard-oriented thing.
The Warped Tour  
Bricktop : 7/26/2021 12:01 am : link
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.
RE: never did go to the Warped Tour  
sb from NYT Forum : 7/26/2021 12:02 am : link
In comment 15313075 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Which is weird, because it should have been right up my alley. I think it was probably because I hated skaters so much and it was a very skateboard-oriented thing.


The first Warped Tour I went to was the last Warped Tour (2018) and it was completely badass. I went with my 14yo daughter and one of her friends.

Shoulda gone to so many more and don't know why I didn't. I guess because I was raising kids.
RE: Just watched and an easy example of political revisionist history...  
Route 9 : 7/26/2021 12:30 am : link
In comment 15313069 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
I ordered the event on PPV to watch with pals and recall it being underwhelming. The documentary bent over backwards to profligate this narrative of angry, white, middle-class, frat boys (ironically) raging against the progressive machine. DMX having his song repeated to him was called racist, three female performers was mysogynist, and white metal performers were accused of coopting more diverse genres.

Pretty sure everyone that was alive with a pulse in 1999 understood what the event would be comprised of, the demo's of it's population, and the logistical challenges (read: nightmare). That the producers need to overlay some sort of political narrative is completely unnecessary.


Oh ok. Yeah. Why wouldn't it? Big surprise.

I probably had more fun in one night in 1999 with everything going on than I did for the past 12 years combined. If I could pick a favorite year from my youth I'd be 1999. So much going on for a kid my age back then: Fun music with curses like Eminem, fun movies like South Park and American Pie, the y2K craze, the attitude era in WWF, Britney Spears half naked dancing, Yankee dynasty, beginning of the Sopranos, etc.
......  
Route 9 : 7/26/2021 12:31 am : link
it'd be 1999*

lol thinking Phantom Menace would be good.
RE: The Warped Tour  
Greg from LI : 7/26/2021 1:15 am : link
In comment 15313078 Bricktop said:
Quote:
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.


Early Warped Tours had good acts as well as dross. It's kind of par for the course for big festival type tours.
My college housemate went  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 7/26/2021 7:21 am : link
He said the biggest issue was that it was very poorly organized and that everything from a concessions perspective was set up to gouge you pricewise. So add that to blazing heat and you kind of got what you got.
RE: I was there  
WahooGiant : 7/26/2021 7:48 am : link
In comment 15313042 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Had fun. I was 22 years old and I loved the chaos. The lineup was pretty amazing- only time in my life I saw James Brown live, for instance. It was rowdy, sure, but I'd been to plenty of shows where people came staggering out of the pit with blood pouring from their heads, so it wasn't anything I hadn't seen before, and I didn't see the worst of what was supposed to have happened other than fires. The worst was supposed to be during RCHP and I wasn't watching them because Megadeth was playing the other stage at the same time.

Now as a middle-aged man, sure, I'd probably view it as a nightmare, but back then? It was pretty fucking awesome.

The water ripoff did suck and did piss a LOT of people off.


I loved the RHCP, and their set was awesome. There were pockets of bad stuff, for sure, but on the whole it was fine. We watched the entire set without incident.
RE: Also the docu tries stubbornly hard to build it's female empowerment..  
Enzo : 7/26/2021 8:14 am : link
In comment 15313070 BurberryManning said:
Quote:
bonafides but completely trips over itself. There were a great number of egregious examples of sexual assault however the docu visually focused on very willing females displaying their breasts. Major difference and very insulting to victims of assault to have their trauma conflated with voluntary exposure.

I thought the same. While I was there, there were groups of guys yelling "show your t*ts" at EVERY girl that walked by. If a girl didn't, they ignored them and then yelled at the next one that walked by. Obviously not a healthy atmosphere, but I honestly don't think anyone was intimidated.

I do believe things got rough in the mosh pit for girls. That was just a dangerous scene all around for women (and men).
RE: Warped  
Enzo : 7/26/2021 8:16 am : link
In comment 15313072 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Tour > lollapalooza

1998-2000 peak warped tour (also I may have been the oldest person there at RFK)

eh, Warped Tour 96 (I saw it at Action Park) was pretty damn memorable. Pennywise, NOFX, Face to Face....
RE: The Warped Tour  
pjcas18 : 7/26/2021 8:18 am : link
In comment 15313078 Bricktop said:
Quote:
starring Blink 182, Staind, Dropkick Murphys, The Mighty Mighty Bostones, Limp Bizkit, and Reel Big Fish? Huh. Interesting take. Some people like Pop Pseudo Punk, I guess. I mean I Bad Religion doing a bunch of sets is pretty cool. But Katy Perry? It's been around for a really long time, which is pretty cool. Idk. To each his own.


one of them I went to also had Kid Rock, Hatebreed, NOFX, Pennywise, Rancid, Suicidal Tendencies - all had Mighty Mighty Bosstones, Dropkicks, Blink 182 - just fun shows.

or maybe I'm combining a couple of them memory is hazy from that era, but they definitely had a punk/ska slant to it more than Lollapalooza.

and the Warped Tour is all in one day and they traveled to you (or close to it), which made it logistically easier on a youngster.

Me and my friends camped out in the basement  
Jints in Carolina : 7/26/2021 9:52 am : link
and watched the entire thing on PPV on a big screen.
RE: Me and my friends camped out in the basement  
Enzo : 7/26/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15313185 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
and watched the entire thing on PPV on a big screen.

while I was there, my one friend's mother recorded the whole thing for us so that we could watch it when we came back, lol.
I was 13 at the time and tuned in just because I vaguely remember MTV  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/26/2021 10:45 am : link
covering it like a war zone and that was it for Woodstocks.


Certainly an interesting watch, but the narratives being hammered home were ridiculous.

A huge event, that’s relatively expensive, unbelievably hot, total lack of access to facilities and water, with the type of music that could certainly heighten the anger? Yeh that was the problem, not all those ridiculous things they tried to shoehorn.

I do think the MTV thing was interesting and actually something I didn’t realize at the time. How essentially the boy bands and child pop acts of the time did essentially steal MTV from them and give it to your little sister. The reaction they received from the crowd probably biased their coverage just a tad.

The managers came across as gross, especially that one dude. Blaming Limp Bizkit and chicks walking around topless for getting sexually assaulted, gross. It was a soulless cash grab and they cut corners everywhere, including security. The documentary got one part right, this was obvious from a mile away, and yet it still happened.
RE: I was there  
schabadoo : 7/26/2021 11:30 am : link
In comment 15313005 WahooGiant said:
Quote:
With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.


We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.

I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.
RE: RE: I was there  
WahooGiant : 7/26/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15313289 schabadoo said:
Quote:
In comment 15313005 WahooGiant said:


Quote:


With a bunch of friends, including at least one other BBI'er. It was wild, but never felt "dangerous." The Saturday main stage end of Limp Bizkit, Rage, Metallica was pretty insane though.



We left the main stage at some point for the Chemical Brothers.

I will say the lineup of bands was odd, for Woodstock. Saturday night could've been an Ozzfest lineup.


Agree. Rage is fine, I have no use for limp bizkit or Metallica. I meant insane as in the crowd, atmosphere was pretty wild. Out of the entire weekend, it was the only thing that felt like it may get out of control.
I played  
BigBluesman : 7/26/2021 4:22 pm : link
one of the welcoming stages as people entered. I was ten years old. Let me know if there's any footage of a white kid playing the Blues.
 
christian : 7/26/2021 5:22 pm : link
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.

I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.

I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.

The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.

And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.
RE: …  
Enzo : 7/26/2021 5:49 pm : link
In comment 15313635 christian said:
Quote:
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.

I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.

I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.

The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.

And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.

the event was poorly planned and executed in terms of security, safety, and basic systems (e.g. water). I don't think it's any more complicated than that.

And while there have been several festivals that have taken place since then that have gone off without incident, I don't think there was a lot of them in the 90s that were across multiple days and had multiple acts. Phish had the Clifford Ball in 96, but that's obviously one band and was on a much smaller scale. Woodstock 94 might have been the only comparable festival in America prior to Woodstock 99.
RE: …  
Route 9 : 7/26/2021 5:57 pm : link
In comment 15313635 christian said:
Quote:
Michael Lang is a family friend — and although I think he’s a well intentioned guy — WS 99 was a disaster.

I’m not sure how well placed the agro white dude conclusions are. But I do know I’ve been to 10s of festivals and none ended in people burning down the place. So something went sideways.

I do know people get sick and hurt at most festivals, and I do know people get harassed. I’m pretty sure rape and sexual assault aren’t part of most festivals.

The biggest culprit in my view is mixing a crowd looking to see Jewel and the Counting Crowes with a crowd looking to see Megadeath and Metallica.

And then giving a forum to Kid Rock and Fred Durst, two of the most disgusting humans in entertainment in a long while.


I've worked so many concerts in my day and those Phish "mellow mushroom" dudes are the biggest litter bugs ever lol So many stupid fires have started because of poor fire negligence. Rage rock ... Eh?

I think the point is here is with poor security and nearly half a million people attending, some things are bound to happen and (that is a shame) but given the numbers of people and substandard security and planning, it's not as a large difficulty as they said it was.
 
christian : 7/26/2021 6:24 pm : link
I agree poor planning and security account for a lot of it. But I think you can certainly attach some blame to the acts and producers for creating an environment that egged people on.

I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.

The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.
RE: …  
Enzo : 7/26/2021 6:39 pm : link
In comment 15313679 christian said:
Quote:
I agree poor planning and security account for a lot of it. But I think you can certainly attach some blame to the acts and producers for creating an environment that egged people on.

I’ve been to plenty of hot and lax festivals where no one raped anyone or lit the place on fire.

The hottest festival I’ve attended was a Hardly Strictly Blue Grass in the 2010s. I nearly passed out just sitting there. I saw plenty of toplessness, lots of drugs, little security, and no one decided to light Golden Gate Park on fire after a day of John Prine.

even if you want to assign blame to Durst for egging people on, the "riot" took place the day after Limp Bizkit played. The main reason there were fires on the last night was because there was an activist group giving out thousands of candles Sunday afternoon.

As for the festival in SF you've mentioned, I'm going to assume the attendees go home or to a hotel after the event instead of camping out on site. And a quick google search tells me its a daytime event. So it's not really an apples to apples comparison.
...  
christian : 7/26/2021 6:47 pm : link
I'm not making an apples to apples comparison. I'm saying lax security, heat, and the occasional naked breast don't typically make people burn a place down.

If your argument is uncomfortable camping and candles make people burn things down at the end -- better call of 6th Bible camp. Those tents sucked, and the vigils are pure d.a.n.g.e.r.
Just watched it due to this thread…  
knowledgetimmons : 7/26/2021 9:24 pm : link
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!

Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.
RE: Just watched it due to this thread…  
Route 9 : 7/26/2021 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15313778 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!

Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.


It really is a never ending headache we are experiencing.
RE: Just watched it due to this thread…  
CooperDash : 7/26/2021 10:01 pm : link
In comment 15313778 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
Super interesting topic that, in this case, was overwhelmed with propaganda about how white people are racist, homophobic, misogynistic assholes. Honest to god, who funded this thing…Tipper Gore?!

Tone deaf, hypocritical nonsense packaged as a documentary.


+ Fucking 1,000

This documentary was horrible. What a race baiting POS.

Also, let’s focus on the 5 same musical acts because they are heavy metal, rap or hard music - ie not Crosby Stills Nash or Simon and Garfunkel. I mean, they could have easily highlighted DMB, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, RHCP, Jewel, Rusted Root - who were all massively popular at the time.

And then there was Moby - who was just bitter because his name was left off the stupid wooden plank that had the bands names listed. So, who better to wax poetic about the rapey culture of “frat boys” on the late 90s and Woodstock 99.

Also awesome to see them tie in Columbine. Wow.

Holy shit, what a horrible documentary.
Who's responsible for this  
Bricktop : 7/26/2021 10:07 pm : link
clownshoes documentary?

Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.
Oh yeah  
CooperDash : 7/26/2021 10:24 pm : link
Fuck Moby
RE: Who's responsible for this  
Greg from LI : 7/27/2021 12:02 am : link
In comment 15313827 Bricktop said:
Quote:
clownshoes documentary?

Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.


Bill Simmons, so you know it's trash
RE: RE: Who's responsible for this  
Bricktop : 7/27/2021 12:18 am : link
In comment 15313900 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 15313827 Bricktop said:


Quote:


clownshoes documentary?

Always has to be some bullshit agenda with these assholes to marginalize people. So fuckin sick of that shit.



Bill Simmons, so you know it's trash


Trying to somehow become quasi relevant again? Why am I not surprised? Dude is a toilet bug.
Get this  
Greg from LI : 7/27/2021 12:29 am : link
Not only has he been responsible for this turd (full disclosure - I don't subscribe so I haven't seen it, but all the descriptions sound terrible), but his stupid website actually did an EIGHT PART podcast on Woodstock '99 a few years ago! Eight goddamned hours?
......  
Route 9 : 7/27/2021 2:27 am : link
Lol. Moby. I always love the dig that How I Met Your Mother threw at him. When they produced the New Year's Eve episode in 2005 and they thought that they ran into Moby. He explains to his kids in 2030 who Moby was as if it was just a foregone conclusion the world won't remember him.

Hell, the world forgot about that stain even in 2005. I remember I went to an Eminem concert in 2002 and Moby "floated away" and they shot him lol

I do give him credit though because he was ahead of his time. Some whiny hipster guy boring everyone about what to say and what not to say. Now you run into 100 of those in a single day and on every YouTube channel. Actually kind of outlandish to think that he strayed from the norm back then.

Ugh. Simpler times I guess? Well not really in the early 2000s
Idk. Moby is definitely not my cup of tea  
Bricktop : 7/27/2021 4:42 am : link
but he had long struggled with addiction and has been clean since 2018 apparently. I have a soft spot in my heart for people who have overcome that beast. And I also revise history a bit within that context. Been there. Done that. And he's an animal rights guy, which is a good thing. Idk.

There are a lot more scumbag musicians at these festivals than Moby.
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