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Texans willing to listen on Watson.

CMicks3110 : 7/26/2021 7:47 am
The #Texans are now willing to listen — and have been for some time — to trade offers for star QB Deshaun Watson, multiple sources tell me and @RapSheet. But the price is high for a player of his caliber, and should be. It’d likely take at least three first-round picks and more.

Would you guys trade DJ and next years 1st rounders for Watson?
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RE: I’d trade it for mahomes  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/26/2021 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15313392 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
your likelihood of winning with him is greater than not having him. A few years of no firsts or seconds is fine considering we’d be contenders every year just by keeping the defense in tact.


This I agree with. I’m not trading for Watson because I think DJ has his ceiling and the cost is going to be a fortune for a perennial top 5-8 25 year old QB. There are people that think what the Texans are asking for is ludicrous but someone is going to give them something close. The team sucked last year, but part of the reason he still put up stats was because the WR group was very deep in talent and had a nice pass catching back, plus they were always playing from behind.
.  
Gruber : 7/26/2021 1:56 pm : link
Unless it's the Eagles, then it looks like any team wanting to acquire Watson would have to package future first round picks, i.e. from 2023 and even 2024.
Keep and eye on Las Vegas, it's the kind of wild move they could make.
Pre-2021 draft, Miami would have been in the driving seat. It would have been a near perfect fit and they could offer Tua in return to go with the picks. They had high first round picks, the Texans should have jumped on it if there had been an offer.
The assholes in Philly already have him on their team  
Fishmanjim57 : 7/26/2021 3:24 pm : link
I heard one of them say that they'll be SB contenders this coming season. I hope they don't get him.
RE: The assholes in Philly already have him on their team  
bw in dc : 7/26/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15313526 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
I heard one of them say that they'll be SB contenders this coming season. I hope they don't get him.


Philly getting Watson would be an enormous coup. But it won't be enough for Philly right away. They still have quite a few holes to fill.

And if they do get him, I have to imagine they have done enough homework - especially with the league office and Watson's attorney Hardin - to feel good about Watson's availability.

I heard Watson isn't scheduled to give depositions until next February, so this is going to drag out. Leaving more time for settlement or even some dismissals.

Like I said earlier, we should definitely be in on this if the outcome looks good for Watson. He's so much better than DJ it should be a lay-up decision...
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/26/2021 4:13 pm : link
so predictable
Anytime..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/26/2021 4:14 pm : link
a "layup decision" is discussed when a team is looking for 5 high picks or players, you can tell there is a specific agenda at hand
I think the five picks is just an opening salvo...  
bw in dc : 7/26/2021 4:19 pm : link
Are you really going to argue crossing our fingers and rubbing four leaf clovers on Jones is a better investment than getting Watson?
He’s guilty as hell, at least per the posters on this thread.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/26/2021 4:23 pm : link
So we shouldn’t offer any more than the two first round picks next year...
Modern America...  
bw in dc : 7/26/2021 4:29 pm : link
Guilty until proven innocent.

it isn't about proving he's guilty  
UConn4523 : 7/26/2021 4:32 pm : link
its about him being the face of a franchise in a league that's trying to expand its reach to kids and women. The NFL can't throw him in prison either.

Not sure why that needs to be said, but there it is.
Well, I think the face of a franchise thing might be over  
Jimmy Googs : 7/26/2021 6:11 pm : link
at this point, don't you? So the most important thing to actually determine is whether he is innocent or guilty.

If the NFL (and public opinion) wants to just assume guilty of every allegation thrown at him without due process, call him a piece of crap and suspend or ban him from the league, then so be it.

But he deserves a fair shake, even if the folks on this thread don't.

And I am not sure why that needs to be said, but there it is...
Trade offers  
bc4life : 7/27/2021 10:07 am : link
or Plea Deals
RE: Modern America...  
Section331 : 7/27/2021 11:23 am : link
In comment 15313599 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Guilty until proven innocent.


I agree with you for the most part, but it isn't even about him being guilty of assault, it's his being guilty of something that he has already admitted to - paying for sex with 22 women. While I personally don't think these should be crimes, very few teams are going to be lining up to trade a treasure chest for someone like that.
ill probably take more heat  
djm : 7/27/2021 1:23 pm : link
because we aren't allowed to mention Eli and jones in the same breath around here, but how many people here would have mocked, laughed and sneered at anyone who dared to say they wouldn't trade 2006-2007 off-season Eli for a player like Jay Cutler? Or 2004-2005 off-season Eli for a player like Daunte Culpepper or Mark Bulger or McNabb or Carson Palmer?

Funny how that worked out. Now it's laughable to even think about it in retrospect. Wasn't so funny then though. Should I go dig up the threads?


PS  
djm : 7/27/2021 1:26 pm : link
I LOVE Watson as a player. Loved him the second he came out of Clemson. And I don't even know for sure WTF is going on in Texas with that wackadooo owner and lacky of his. This isn't about Watson necessarily, just how a QBs career's can turn on a dime. Perception isn't always reality.
RE: PS  
section125 : 7/27/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15314228 djm said:
Quote:
I LOVE Watson as a player. Loved him the second he came out of Clemson. And I don't even know for sure WTF is going on in Texas with that wackadooo owner and lacky of his. This isn't about Watson necessarily, just how a QBs career's can turn on a dime. Perception isn't always reality.


The owner and GM went out and forced Watson to ask for sexual favors during massages? Who knew?

Yes, I thought more highly of Watson out of Clemson than most, also. Totally irrelevant with this issue.
RE: ill probably take more heat  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 4:44 pm : link
In comment 15314226 djm said:
Quote:
because we aren't allowed to mention Eli and jones in the same breath around here, but how many people here would have mocked, laughed and sneered at anyone who dared to say they wouldn't trade 2006-2007 off-season Eli for a player like Jay Cutler? Or 2004-2005 off-season Eli for a player like Daunte Culpepper or Mark Bulger or McNabb or Carson Palmer?

Funny how that worked out. Now it's laughable to even think about it in retrospect. Wasn't so funny then though. Should I go dig up the threads?



In Eli's second FY as a starter, the Giants were 11-5 and he was 24/17 and 3700+ yards. So it least he showed a pulse versus what we have seen from Jones.

Let me tell you something. If we got a deal to land Watson that most on this board would deem reasonable - and that's certainly in the eye of the beholder - anyone with an IQ over 70 would and should make that trade.

Because right now, Watson is challenging as a top five QB in the NFL. He's never had a bad year. Jones is lucky to be in the top 25 conversation right now.

So another poor attempt to rope Eli into the conversation.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2021 4:46 pm : link
an equally poor attempt to equate a "good value" to the discussion.

In a trade, even if the Texans back down from 5 high draft picks, it would likely be 3 in a negotiation - which would still be too expensive.
i think the upgrade from Jones is obvious  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2021 4:53 pm : link
but it comes down to risk associated to his off the field issues and losing all the picks if the legal issues stick. I doubt that happens, but its possible and really only takes 1 of those accusations to be proven right to severely damage or end his career. Then there's the ethics question and whatever side of that you are on you better believe most owners including Mara aren't going to invite it with open arms even if it means more wins. Do you really see most teams signing up for this circus every day? I don't, and that's before giving up a boatload of picks for him.
RE: And..  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15314414 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
an equally poor attempt to equate a "good value" to the discussion.

In a trade, even if the Texans back down from 5 high draft picks, it would likely be 3 in a negotiation - which would still be too expensive.


Considering Watson's off field challenges, the 5 high picks is fantasy land stuff. Not that it couldn't happen, I just don't see it.

If the Texans said Jones (former high firster), next year's higher #1, our #1 in '23 and maybe a Peppers-type, would do pull the trigger?
RE: RE: And..  
section125 : 7/27/2021 4:59 pm : link
In comment 15314428 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15314414 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


an equally poor attempt to equate a "good value" to the discussion.

In a trade, even if the Texans back down from 5 high draft picks, it would likely be 3 in a negotiation - which would still be too expensive.



Considering Watson's off field challenges, the 5 high picks is fantasy land stuff. Not that it couldn't happen, I just don't see it.

If the Texans said Jones (former high firster), next year's higher #1, our #1 in '23 and maybe a Peppers-type, would do pull the trigger?


Not I. To steep for a "damaged" player with that salary.
RE: RE: And..  
Jimmy Googs : 7/27/2021 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15314428 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15314414 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


an equally poor attempt to equate a "good value" to the discussion.

In a trade, even if the Texans back down from 5 high draft picks, it would likely be 3 in a negotiation - which would still be too expensive.



Considering Watson's off field challenges, the 5 high picks is fantasy land stuff. Not that it couldn't happen, I just don't see it.

If the Texans said Jones (former high firster), next year's higher #1, our #1 in '23 and maybe a Peppers-type, would do pull the trigger?


No, probably not. Watson will need to have his day in court, if it even reaches that.

And depending on that outcome, and if he gets another chance and the NYG are still floundering at QB in the near future, maybe rethink it then...
No way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2021 5:16 pm : link
am I giving up two 1sts and a borderline Pro Bowler in his prime for a guy who might implode in NY.

We have a very good young core - why jeopardize that and mortgage the future for a guy under the microscope?
Like I mentioned yesterday...  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 5:39 pm : link
if my due diligence revealed Watson was on very firm legal ground, and I found out the league office was going to fairly light on punishment, I'm all in.

Because you aren't getting Watson for a short term fix, he's a long term investment for the next decade. A proven, on field asset.
RE: Like I mentioned yesterday...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/27/2021 5:51 pm : link
In comment 15314460 bw in dc said:
Quote:
if my due diligence revealed Watson was on very firm legal ground, and I found out the league office was going to fairly light on punishment, I'm all in.

Because you aren't getting Watson for a short term fix, he's a long term investment for the next decade. A proven, on field asset.


Yeah but very firm legal ground definitely doesn't exist today and may not for some time. There are over 20+ alleged instances to go thru full discovery, or settlement as I mentioned earlier.

And the NFL will only do what is in their best interest...which is likely not aligned with Watson's.
RE: No way..  
BrettNYG10 : 7/27/2021 5:52 pm : link
In comment 15314440 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
am I giving up two 1sts and a borderline Pro Bowler in his prime for a guy who might implode in NY.

We have a very good young core - why jeopardize that and mortgage the future for a guy under the microscope?


Do you think Peppers put up a Pro Bowl caliber season last year? My view is he played at that level after the first Eagles game, but was mediocre (and occasionally bad) prior. I don't claim to be a safety expert though.

I'm a hard no on Watson due to his off the field issues.
RE: RE: Like I mentioned yesterday...  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 6:42 pm : link
In comment 15314471 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Yeah but very firm legal ground definitely doesn't exist today and may not for some time. There are over 20+ alleged instances to go thru full discovery, or settlement as I mentioned earlier.

And the NFL will only do what is in their best interest...which is likely not aligned with Watson's.


I hear you. But there is a lot of time between now and when Watson gives his first depo next February. My guess is he settles almost all of these before that.

Oh, I think Watson is definitely getting suspended. It's a matter of the length. But I'm okay with that because I would be looking at getting him as a buy and hold play for ten years.
RE: RE: No way..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2021 7:07 pm : link
In comment 15314474 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
In comment 15314440 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


am I giving up two 1sts and a borderline Pro Bowler in his prime for a guy who might implode in NY.

We have a very good young core - why jeopardize that and mortgage the future for a guy under the microscope?



Do you think Peppers put up a Pro Bowl caliber season last year? My view is he played at that level after the first Eagles game, but was mediocre (and occasionally bad) prior. I don't claim to be a safety expert though.

I'm a hard no on Watson due to his off the field issues.


I think Peppers was playing very well in 2019 before his injury and was solid last season. Pro Bowl? Don't know. But definitely borderline.
Bw  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2021 7:58 pm : link
it’s interesting that you are taking the glass half full stance on every potential Watson outcome. Why is that?

The reality is this is getting dragged out and best case scenario he settles / gets cases thrown out, worst case scenario is a bunch of the stories stick. The truth is probably somewhere in between which is still very dicey.

A multi billion dollar organization will stay that way without Watson including an 0-17 season. Winning at all costs isn’t something the Giants are going to do and likely isn’t what most people would do in their shoes whether they admit it or not. Add in all the compensation you’d have to give up for him and potentially lose out on with no return and it’s a hard no for most people.
I do..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/27/2021 8:34 pm : link
find it odd, but not surprising, that some of the posters who complained that we sold low on Beckham are advocating that we buy high for Watson.

And one of the guys still hasn't had off the field issues.
RE: RE: RE: Like I mentioned yesterday...  
BigBlueShock : 7/27/2021 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15314499 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15314471 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



Yeah but very firm legal ground definitely doesn't exist today and may not for some time. There are over 20+ alleged instances to go thru full discovery, or settlement as I mentioned earlier.

And the NFL will only do what is in their best interest...which is likely not aligned with Watson's.



I hear you. But there is a lot of time between now and when Watson gives his first depo next February. My guess is he settles almost all of these before that.

Oh, I think Watson is definitely getting suspended. It's a matter of the length. But I'm okay with that because I would be looking at getting him as a buy and hold play for ten years.

You honestly think that with all of Watsons issues, both injuries and off the field, he’s got 10 more good years in him? Haha, yeah right. There’s no way you believe that but that’s what makes you, you. You willfully lie and say things that not even your sorry ass believes. And your lap dog JimmyGoogs eats it all up. I’m not sure if you’re a genius or I just incredibly narcissistic but either way, congratulations.

Now roll over before you fall asleep and tell Googs how you want him to respond….
RE: Bw  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15314558 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
it’s interesting that you are taking the glass half full stance on every potential Watson outcome. Why is that?



I wouldn't say that. I'm saying this is worth some serious due diligence because Watson is an incredible player at the most important position. And with the unknown element of the legal issues, a team might be able to get Watson at a discount in value, maybe, and I'm making this up, for less compensation than a normal situation. So I would be willing to, again, take a short term hit for the long term gain. Plus, I have no idea who Jones is a QB other than two rather pedestrian years. Watson is such a better, proven player...

Look, I'm really just spit-balling here. And this is probably academic because the Giants very likely don't want to deal with the risk, especially after OBJ, Baker, etc. I would just hate to see DW come to the NFCE and we have to deal with his talent for a decade.
That’s fair and makes sense  
UConn4523 : 7/27/2021 8:51 pm : link
.
RE: RE: ill probably take more heat  
djm : 7/27/2021 8:55 pm : link
In comment 15314409 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15314226 djm said:


Quote:


because we aren't allowed to mention Eli and jones in the same breath around here, but how many people here would have mocked, laughed and sneered at anyone who dared to say they wouldn't trade 2006-2007 off-season Eli for a player like Jay Cutler? Or 2004-2005 off-season Eli for a player like Daunte Culpepper or Mark Bulger or McNabb or Carson Palmer?

Funny how that worked out. Now it's laughable to even think about it in retrospect. Wasn't so funny then though. Should I go dig up the threads?





In Eli's second FY as a starter, the Giants were 11-5 and he was 24/17 and 3700+ yards. So it least he showed a pulse versus what we have seen from Jones.

Let me tell you something. If we got a deal to land Watson that most on this board would deem reasonable - and that's certainly in the eye of the beholder - anyone with an IQ over 70 would and should make that trade.

Because right now, Watson is challenging as a top five QB in the NFL. He's never had a bad year. Jones is lucky to be in the top 25 conversation right now.

So another poor attempt to rope Eli into the conversation.


You missed the point. But nothing stops you anyway.

RE: RE: RE: RE: Like I mentioned yesterday...  
bw in dc : 7/27/2021 8:56 pm : link
In comment 15314594 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:


You honestly think that with all of Watsons issues, both injuries and off the field, he’s got 10 more good years in him? Haha, yeah right. There’s no way you believe that but that’s what makes you, you. You willfully lie and say things that not even your sorry ass believes. And your lap dog JimmyGoogs eats it all up. I’m not sure if you’re a genius or I just incredibly narcissistic but either way, congratulations.

Now roll over before you fall asleep and tell Googs how you want him to respond….


Why wouldn't I believe Watson could have ten more good years? He's three outstanding years in a row.

I don't mind helping you out here and reminding you what Watson's production looks like. See the link...
Watson - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Bw  
section125 : 7/27/2021 9:02 pm : link
In comment 15314595 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15314558 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


it’s interesting that you are taking the glass half full stance on every potential Watson outcome. Why is that?





I wouldn't say that. I'm saying this is worth some serious due diligence because Watson is an incredible player at the most important position. And with the unknown element of the legal issues, a team might be able to get Watson at a discount in value, maybe, and I'm making this up, for less compensation than a normal situation. So I would be willing to, again, take a short term hit for the long term gain. Plus, I have no idea who Jones is a QB other than two rather pedestrian years. Watson is such a better, proven player...

Look, I'm really just spit-balling here. And this is probably academic because the Giants very likely don't want to deal with the risk, especially after OBJ, Baker, etc. I would just hate to see DW come to the NFCE and we have to deal with his talent for a decade.


If Watson is likely to lose his cases, the price will drop. If he is likely to win(or even reduce his exposure), his price will remain high, not this high, but high. The contract is high, but not outrageous and Houston eats the signing bonus money. He may miss time this year and if the issue is settled off season he will miss time next year. Giants would need to scramble to accommodate his contract.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Like I mentioned yesterday...  
Jimmy Googs : 7/27/2021 11:36 pm : link
In comment 15314594 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 15314499 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15314471 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



Yeah but very firm legal ground definitely doesn't exist today and may not for some time. There are over 20+ alleged instances to go thru full discovery, or settlement as I mentioned earlier.

And the NFL will only do what is in their best interest...which is likely not aligned with Watson's.



I hear you. But there is a lot of time between now and when Watson gives his first depo next February. My guess is he settles almost all of these before that.

Oh, I think Watson is definitely getting suspended. It's a matter of the length. But I'm okay with that because I would be looking at getting him as a buy and hold play for ten years.


You honestly think that with all of Watsons issues, both injuries and off the field, he’s got 10 more good years in him? Haha, yeah right. There’s no way you believe that but that’s what makes you, you. You willfully lie and say things that not even your sorry ass believes. And your lap dog JimmyGoogs eats it all up. I’m not sure if you’re a genius or I just incredibly narcissistic but either way, congratulations.

Now roll over before you fall asleep and tell Googs how you want him to respond….


You seem lost in space. My post to bw suggest an approach that is 180 degrees different on this topic.

Not exactly a lap dog but maybe that is how your pets treat you so it got confusing...



it's one thing to debate whether a team should go after Watson  
djm : 7/28/2021 10:55 am : link
but the Giants won't ever do that. Right or wrong, the Giants pick their spots when it comes to troubled athletes. They did go after and sign Collins. They signed Christian Peter. They aren't adverse to risk/reward but they aren't trading the farm for Watson with Jones still not a finished product. And most teams wouldn't. Watson is a toxic player whether you believe the stories or not. And the Giants have invested so much time and energy into Jones.

It aint happening. And you can criticize them all you want but it's hard to blast any franchise for staying away, especially when there's a first round QB on the team about to enter his prime, with everything lined up for that QB to succeed.

If this were next year and the charges were virtually wiped clean or in the past? That's another story. The timing is just off.
RE: RE: RE: No way..  
BrettNYG10 : 7/28/2021 11:09 am : link
In comment 15314514 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15314474 BrettNYG10 said:


Quote:


In comment 15314440 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


am I giving up two 1sts and a borderline Pro Bowler in his prime for a guy who might implode in NY.

We have a very good young core - why jeopardize that and mortgage the future for a guy under the microscope?



Do you think Peppers put up a Pro Bowl caliber season last year? My view is he played at that level after the first Eagles game, but was mediocre (and occasionally bad) prior. I don't claim to be a safety expert though.

I'm a hard no on Watson due to his off the field issues.



I think Peppers was playing very well in 2019 before his injury and was solid last season. Pro Bowl? Don't know. But definitely borderline.


Thanks, Fatman - like I said, was not a fan of his in 2019 but he started catching my eye in mid-2020, so I started to think I may have been missing something earlier. Hope he continues the solid play.
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