not sure I follow. This is completely and utterly different than BBI.
Imagine Biles is Eli Manning, because that's basically the equivalent in terms of Giants fans.
If Eli Manning had decided to step away or quit because of mental health issues, after all he had done for the Giants, do you think people would support him?
This isn't about performance. It's not like Biles is some random gymnast who sucks, kept making the team even though she sucks, and then decided eh I can't go on anymore.
This is the most decorated gymnast in American history. Give it a rest.
for someone like Michael Kay - who is a complete fucking tool - to question an athlete of Biles stature and standing in the gymnastics world is the height of absurdity.
The fact is that none of us have a fucking clue what that young woman is going through. It's her life, her health and her future - not ours - and we're not in a position to judge her in any fashion. The only thing we can do is send some positivity her way - who fucking cares about medals and whatnot if someone is in pain - and hope she finds her way in life. As we're all trying to do.
par for the course for America today. People who are obsessed with having a hot take or being "controversial" and saying things that are completely and utterly ridiculous (and probably don't even mean it) saying their "opinions" on something that if they actually saw that person in real life or were asked to say it to their face, they'd run and hide like a child, or, they'd probably ask for an autograph.
if people are "let down" by Simone Biles, especially after all she's done for the country and all she's given to a sport that literally enabled a rapist, then those people have legit issues with themselves on a personal level. Yeah - I'll say it again - you have legit issues if you feel let down by Simone Biles.
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
waging wars against the things in their own daily lives and will never be the lead on NBC nightly news as a portrait of heroism. That's fine, but I think the people who insist that this girl needs to be revered for her decision to withdraw from the Olympics lack perspective.
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
... this drives me nuts the most I think. This woman is performing moves that no one else on the planet has yet. Moves that have paralyzed other people.
You need to be absolutely LASER focused or you could die or suffer serious and significant life altering injury. The fact that someone calls this woman who basically defies death and injury for a living - a coward - really it's laughable.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
she stands at the podium with her hand on her heart as the anthem plays. You'd think that would earn her some leeway with the keyboard warriors described above.
she stands at the podium with her hand on her heart as the anthem plays. You'd think that would earn her some leeway with the keyboard warriors described above.
Unfortunately that probably works against her with some as well.
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
I would say heroic is subjective. Some may consider her acts heroic.
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
I think it's pretty fucking heroic to put all of your issues out for the world to see - and despite all the pressure from fans, your country, USA Gymnastics, sponsors, peers, etc all on the biggest stage of your life - you do what's right for YOU. That's pretty fuckin badass, imo.
An explanation of why Biles was right to do what she did
One wrong move in gymnastics (men’s or women’s) due to a lack of focus or the body not doing what the brain intends for it to do in mid-air is a catastrophic injury waiting to happen The twisties - ( New Window )
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
Moms of old white men might be too old to be fetching Mac n cheese. These men are despicable.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
You simply stated it as a fact that Biles was not heroic. It's not a fact either way.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
Good to know some of your best friends are old White men. You are truly enlightened.
With race get messy very quickly. Sometimes the race of a person is relevant, other times not. Unless each person truly trusts each other's intentions, bad things will likely happen, unfortunately.
The woman stated that she pulled out because she was not in the right place mentally and could potentially cost her team mates a medal. For an athlete of her caliber to admit that, in it's OWN TERM, is heroic. She took the blame, she realized she was a liability, and she stood down. That takes guts. Period.
"After the vault, 'I’m not in the right headspace,'” Biles said. “I’m not going to lose a medal for this country and for these girls. They worked too hard ... it's not worth it, especially when you have three amazing athletes who can step up."
How is that not "heroic" to the team? Maybe not to someone outside, but let's just say for a minute she tried to gut it out and either hurt herself or cost the team a medal, and then afterwards the public found out she wasn't in a good mental state? She'd have been vilified. The woman has done enough. Frankly, she COULD be commended for saving the girls a chance at the Gold and getting the Silver. And she had their back. Which is another hallmark of a great team mate:
“I’m SO proud of these girls right here. You girls are incredibly brave & talented! I’ll forever be inspired by your determination to not give up and to fight through adversity! They stepped up when I couldn’t. Thanks for being there for me and having my back! Forever love y’all.”
Sounds like a roll model, at the least, if not a hero, to me.
I hope she gets well and knows that the vast majority of us Americans support her.
it took guts. Heroic is not the first thing that comes to mind in regard to what Biles did, however, I certainly wouldn't put my nose up at anyone that feels different.
people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
Fair enough. Same debate is raging over my college buddy group text...I’ve been dodging social media for a variety of reasons lately, but I’m well aware how ugly people get there
I was dickish in my earlier comments, and I won’t hide from that. My first reaction was to be bummed she backed out, and uncomfortable with the rush to cheer her for it. Fact is, for whatever mitigating factors, she quit in the middle of the olympics.
But always willing to at least try and look at my own blind spots. The points several have made here about the risks of gymnastics at this level are very valid. A swimmer suffering from mental difficulties may swim poorly, but they’re not going to break a limb or drown. A gymnast who’s off her game mentally may break her neck
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
You simply stated it as a fact that Biles was not heroic. It's not a fact either way.
Fair.
It's obviously my opinion. I figured that was blatantly clear and didn't need clarifying.
First off none of this is for any of us to state definitively as fact and none of our opinions matter beyond our own sphere of influence which for most of us is probably limited.
I acknowledge pulling out was the right thing for Biles, especially since mentally she was not prepared and could have injured herself (and hurt the team).
it's completely her right to do so and it's not cowardly or wrong or letting anyone down.
However, I also believe (IMO) it's not heroic. and the takes of some people who think that with all the pressure and weight (and eyes) on her as the best in the world to do what she did is heroic or "badass" seems like a bizarre take.
I can understand the decision, but i view it more as unfortunate and sad, even if I respect it.
Certainly don't see how it's heroic. I bet she wishes she didn't have to pull out of the event, I bet she doesn't think it's heroic, I bet she views it as sad and unfortunate.
but that's obviously my opinion.
RE: RE: I think this was less mental health issue and more realizing she was
going to cost her teammates a medal. I think saying the individual events were still on the table there is telling. Real mental health issues just don’t resolve like that without some work. I think she, or her team, realized what the optics were going to be there so pulled there as well.
I for one believe it’s a selfless move and never understood why it’s expected and even honorable to go out there when another teammate would give you a better shot. Of course that’s still the case, so it’s just easier to cite mental health issues. If what the poster said about her possibly costing them a medal is accurate.
My understanding is that they were not able to replace Biles' with the alternate, which meant that they had to use the scores from the other 3 gymnasts no matter what. Usually all 4 would compete each event and then they'd take the top 3 scores.
Absolutely incorrect.
It's 3 gymnasts per event for all teams and all scores count.
There was an element of self-preservation involved specific to her sport. Athletes in her sport who were forced to compete after they lost their coordination, even a tiny bit, suffered catastrophic injuries either in training or during an event
have a problem with pretty much anyone's opinion on this thread. Everyone has been pretty fair. And learning about the twisties has furthered my personal opinion that Biles did the right thing for herself - and there's nothing wrong with that. And it takes lots of guts to do what she did.
As sports fans, we've seen many instances of athletes throwing in the towel (heck, that's how the term was coined). Whether due to an injury, a mental state, or simply not caring anymore.. the reason doesn't matter. She quit. Big deal.
In quitting, she let some people down. Fans, sponsors, sports broadcasters. Who cares about them. But she also let down her teammates and other gymnasts who may have made the team if she quit prior to making the trip. She also let herself down, because no one wanted her to win medals more than she wanted to win them for herself. I've been to National and Olympic trials myself, and know dozens of Olympians.. they don't give a crap about winning for fans and sponsors. They want to win for themselves and their teammates.
She'll face the demons of letting herself and her teammates down for the rest of her life. All quitters do. Does that make them heroic? No way.
Your last post gives me hope that there are still reasonable people in the world. Kudos to you for opening your mind to change and exercising critical thinking... that's a increasingly rare and welcomed skill!
Heroic feels a little hyperbolic, I think the best description is commendable or admirable.
I’m happy for her, that she had the wherewithal and confidence to step back and not hurt herself physically, and secondarily allow someone to step in and help the team.
It’s like a race car driver pulling out of race when their head isn’t straight. Nothing good comes out of putting yourself at risk. You get your head right, and either get back at it or retire.
Think about the next gymnast that would've made it had Biles made this decision before the Olympics started. She stole that opportunity of a lifetime from someone who busted their tail for it.
I feel for her, but I also feel for the other person.
struggling with the need to label it either heroic or the move of a loser.
It was a personal decision carried out in the public eye, but we are seemingly programmed with having to label everything to fit an opinion.
To me, this was a personal choice that was made that is neither cowardly nor heroic. Just as any athlete leaving a contest due to an injury or event is heroic or cowardly
She's an individual competing in an individual sport (like golf) and can ho whatever she wants for whatever reason. She doesn't owe anyone anything.
In fact, when she returned to cheer on her team the other night instead of sulking in the locker room was an act on monumental courage.
Back in the day, others had to tough it out (Jennifer Capriati, Andrea Jaeger) with predictable results.
She'll pay the price, maybe even regret what she did, but the combination of the weight of world expectations on her shoulders + Covid it's understandable what happened, maybe even predictable.
Imagine Biles is Eli Manning, because that's basically the equivalent in terms of Giants fans.
If Eli Manning had decided to step away or quit because of mental health issues, after all he had done for the Giants, do you think people would support him?
This isn't about performance. It's not like Biles is some random gymnast who sucks, kept making the team even though she sucks, and then decided eh I can't go on anymore.
This is the most decorated gymnast in American history. Give it a rest.
The fact is that none of us have a fucking clue what that young woman is going through. It's her life, her health and her future - not ours - and we're not in a position to judge her in any fashion. The only thing we can do is send some positivity her way - who fucking cares about medals and whatnot if someone is in pain - and hope she finds her way in life. As we're all trying to do.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
lack perspective on what?
Quote:
From the kind of people I wish just didn't inhabit this planet.
It’s embarrassing, I hate reading it.
Agreed. Very many sucky people sadly.
Quote:
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
You need to be absolutely LASER focused or you could die or suffer serious and significant life altering injury. The fact that someone calls this woman who basically defies death and injury for a living - a coward - really it's laughable.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
Unfortunately that probably works against her with some as well.
Quote:
In comment 15314857 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
I would say heroic is subjective. Some may consider her acts heroic.
Quote:
In comment 15314857 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
with Biles or Osaka pulling out of events the way they have who the fuck am I to question them.
They got to their levels of acclaim because they achieved and earned it.
What I have an issue with is the people who hail them as heroic for pulling out of events due to mental health.
It's not heroic any more than it is cowardly.
just leave them alone, let them heal, but don't make them "brave" for it.
some day the stigma of mental issue will be gone just like the first "x" person to do something. So I hate the vitriol spewed at these young athletes. But I also think some people swing too far the other way.
Wrong again. This isn't World War II man. This isn't cowardly.
She should be applauded for making that decision. I'm sure there are countless athletes who didn't make that decision that wish they could go back and do it.
Apparently you struggle as much with the written word as you do putting together a cogent thought.
I said it's *not* cowardly.
but yes, I also said it's not heroic.
It's not, it's simply a fact, she's not mentally prepared to participate, so don't participate - it's not brave or heroic for her to drop out. that makes no sense. but again for the literacy challenged it's *not* cowardly.
I think it's pretty fucking heroic to put all of your issues out for the world to see - and despite all the pressure from fans, your country, USA Gymnastics, sponsors, peers, etc all on the biggest stage of your life - you do what's right for YOU. That's pretty fuckin badass, imo.
The twisties - ( New Window )
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Quote:
for the slow ones in the back.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
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people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
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In comment 15315150 pjcas18 said:
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for the slow ones in the back.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
You simply stated it as a fact that Biles was not heroic. It's not a fact either way.
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In comment 15315116 Bricktop said:
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people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
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In comment 15315151 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15315116 Bricktop said:
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people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
"After the vault, 'I’m not in the right headspace,'” Biles said. “I’m not going to lose a medal for this country and for these girls. They worked too hard ... it's not worth it, especially when you have three amazing athletes who can step up."
How is that not "heroic" to the team? Maybe not to someone outside, but let's just say for a minute she tried to gut it out and either hurt herself or cost the team a medal, and then afterwards the public found out she wasn't in a good mental state? She'd have been vilified. The woman has done enough. Frankly, she COULD be commended for saving the girls a chance at the Gold and getting the Silver. And she had their back. Which is another hallmark of a great team mate:
“I’m SO proud of these girls right here. You girls are incredibly brave & talented! I’ll forever be inspired by your determination to not give up and to fight through adversity! They stepped up when I couldn’t. Thanks for being there for me and having my back! Forever love y’all.”
Sounds like a roll model, at the least, if not a hero, to me.
I hope she gets well and knows that the vast majority of us Americans support her.
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In comment 15315151 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15315116 Bricktop said:
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people like Bela Karoly, his wife and the entire USA Gymnastics organization with the same - certainly more - vigor as they're criticizing someone like Biles. But that's not going to happen, because it's easier to bash a young woman than identify and understand the root causes of someone's distress.
Old white men online today are going nuts, falling all over themselves, calling her a quitter, not the GOAT, a failure - all while licking the dorito dust off their fingers and yelling at mom to bring down the mac n cheese. It's fucking pathetic.
What do you know about old white men, or me for that matter. Biased blank statements like this don't help anything.
B I’ve always respected you as a poster, but have to agree with this. The knee jerk reaction to throw out a veiled accusation of racism into a debate like this is BS.
Racism? I'm not throwing any veiled accusation of anything. You're nuts. I'm speaking on my own experience with social media today. Some of my friends are comprised of dozens of old white men - and on Facebook they're all tripping over themselves criticizing Biles. It's pathetic.
Fair enough. Same debate is raging over my college buddy group text...I’ve been dodging social media for a variety of reasons lately, but I’m well aware how ugly people get there
I was dickish in my earlier comments, and I won’t hide from that. My first reaction was to be bummed she backed out, and uncomfortable with the rush to cheer her for it. Fact is, for whatever mitigating factors, she quit in the middle of the olympics.
But always willing to at least try and look at my own blind spots. The points several have made here about the risks of gymnastics at this level are very valid. A swimmer suffering from mental difficulties may swim poorly, but they’re not going to break a limb or drown. A gymnast who’s off her game mentally may break her neck
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In comment 15315152 crick n NC said:
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In comment 15315150 pjcas18 said:
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for the slow ones in the back.
No one is saying being a gymnast competing on the largest stage isn't heroic. I don't know if it is or isn't - it's up to everyone to define what they view as heroic I guess.
I am saying pulling out of the Olympics due to not being mentally prepared to participate is not heroic or brave as some people have indicated.
if you think pulling out of an event for those reasons is heroic - then you do you - right back at you slick.
I am not sure your tone is necessary. I believe you stated it as a fact that it was not heroic of Biles. I simply responded that herioc is subjective.
Ok, sorry, my words are violence, you being able to tolerate them is heroic.
You simply stated it as a fact that Biles was not heroic. It's not a fact either way.
Fair.
It's obviously my opinion. I figured that was blatantly clear and didn't need clarifying.
First off none of this is for any of us to state definitively as fact and none of our opinions matter beyond our own sphere of influence which for most of us is probably limited.
I acknowledge pulling out was the right thing for Biles, especially since mentally she was not prepared and could have injured herself (and hurt the team).
it's completely her right to do so and it's not cowardly or wrong or letting anyone down.
However, I also believe (IMO) it's not heroic. and the takes of some people who think that with all the pressure and weight (and eyes) on her as the best in the world to do what she did is heroic or "badass" seems like a bizarre take.
I can understand the decision, but i view it more as unfortunate and sad, even if I respect it.
Certainly don't see how it's heroic. I bet she wishes she didn't have to pull out of the event, I bet she doesn't think it's heroic, I bet she views it as sad and unfortunate.
but that's obviously my opinion.
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going to cost her teammates a medal. I think saying the individual events were still on the table there is telling. Real mental health issues just don’t resolve like that without some work. I think she, or her team, realized what the optics were going to be there so pulled there as well.
I for one believe it’s a selfless move and never understood why it’s expected and even honorable to go out there when another teammate would give you a better shot. Of course that’s still the case, so it’s just easier to cite mental health issues. If what the poster said about her possibly costing them a medal is accurate.
My understanding is that they were not able to replace Biles' with the alternate, which meant that they had to use the scores from the other 3 gymnasts no matter what. Usually all 4 would compete each event and then they'd take the top 3 scores.
Absolutely incorrect.
It's 3 gymnasts per event for all teams and all scores count.
Again - any athlete is free to not compete. And with it comes reactions, both good and bad.
Link?
I hate getting caught in a lie! Damn you!
Again - any athlete is free to not compete. And with it comes reactions, both good and bad.
Forced? No, but there's a prevailing attitude of "suck it up" in American culture and especially for top athletes.
In quitting, she let some people down. Fans, sponsors, sports broadcasters. Who cares about them. But she also let down her teammates and other gymnasts who may have made the team if she quit prior to making the trip. She also let herself down, because no one wanted her to win medals more than she wanted to win them for herself. I've been to National and Olympic trials myself, and know dozens of Olympians.. they don't give a crap about winning for fans and sponsors. They want to win for themselves and their teammates.
She'll face the demons of letting herself and her teammates down for the rest of her life. All quitters do. Does that make them heroic? No way.
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of Eastern Bloc countries in the 70's and early 80's, have athletes been "forced" to compete?
Again - any athlete is free to not compete. And with it comes reactions, both good and bad.
Forced? No, but there's a prevailing attitude of "suck it up" in American culture and especially for top athletes.
While we Americans can be ugly in a variety of ways, I don’t think we have any monopoly on that attitude.
Shit my buddy from Colombia often reminds us they once shot the guy who allowed an embarrassing own goal in the World Cup years ago
I’m happy for her, that she had the wherewithal and confidence to step back and not hurt herself physically, and secondarily allow someone to step in and help the team.
It’s like a race car driver pulling out of race when their head isn’t straight. Nothing good comes out of putting yourself at risk. You get your head right, and either get back at it or retire.
All very normal things in competitive sports.
I feel for her, but I also feel for the other person.
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In comment 15315193 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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of Eastern Bloc countries in the 70's and early 80's, have athletes been "forced" to compete?
Again - any athlete is free to not compete. And with it comes reactions, both good and bad.
Forced? No, but there's a prevailing attitude of "suck it up" in American culture and especially for top athletes.
While we Americans can be ugly in a variety of ways, I don’t think we have any monopoly on that attitude.
Shit my buddy from Colombia often reminds us they once shot the guy who allowed an embarrassing own goal in the World Cup years ago
Oh that's absolutely true, it's pervasive. Just in the context of this conversation I focused on the US.
But it happens everywhere with every sport.
It was a personal decision carried out in the public eye, but we are seemingly programmed with having to label everything to fit an opinion.
To me, this was a personal choice that was made that is neither cowardly nor heroic. Just as any athlete leaving a contest due to an injury or event is heroic or cowardly
In fact, when she returned to cheer on her team the other night instead of sulking in the locker room was an act on monumental courage.
Back in the day, others had to tough it out (Jennifer Capriati, Andrea Jaeger) with predictable results.
She'll pay the price, maybe even regret what she did, but the combination of the weight of world expectations on her shoulders + Covid it's understandable what happened, maybe even predictable.
Stay strong Simone.