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NFT: Simone Biles

Bricktop : 7/28/2021 2:44 am
has dropped out of the individual all around competition at the Olympics citing mental well being. I hope this changes somehow.
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Stan..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/28/2021 1:21 pm : link
last night was a team competition
RE: I'm still  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15315217 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
struggling with the need to label it either heroic or the move of a loser.


And I'm struggling with how the reaction is ascribed to old white men...
RE: RE: RE: Outside..  
PatersonPlank : 7/28/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15315210 mfsd said:
Quote:
In comment 15315201 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


In comment 15315193 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


of Eastern Bloc countries in the 70's and early 80's, have athletes been "forced" to compete?

Again - any athlete is free to not compete. And with it comes reactions, both good and bad.



Forced? No, but there's a prevailing attitude of "suck it up" in American culture and especially for top athletes.



While we Americans can be ugly in a variety of ways, I don’t think we have any monopoly on that attitude.

Shit my buddy from Colombia often reminds us they once shot the guy who allowed an embarrassing own goal in the World Cup years ago


That was wild. I think this link is it, the 1994 loss to the USA where the guy scored an on-goal. I read the shooter shouted "goal" when they shot him.
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They..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 7/28/2021 1:26 pm : link
made a 30 for 30 episode on that. The Two Escobars
when people describe what she did as brave  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/28/2021 1:29 pm : link
they aren't celebrating the overall result of what happened. It's sad and unfortunate that this happened to her and she had to go through all of this.

But pulling out due to "the twisties" in the warm-up so as to not put herself at risk of extreme injury (or hurt her team's chances) is thought of as brave by many precisely because of the stigma with mental issues. If arguably the best of all time could "get the twisties," then it's okay when others do as well.

If arguably the greatest of all time could pull herself off of the biggest stage at the last minute because she mentally lost control of her body and was not in the right place to compete safely or help her team, then it liberates others to do the same when they are struggling and would otherwise feel pressured to to put themselves at risk of catastrophic injury.
It also pushes the conversation forward about mental health, generally-- especially showing how even successful, talented people struggle.

I'd also disagree with the description as "not mentally prepared to participate." That seems a bit callous, as if it was a failing of effort on her part.

If an athlete tweaked or aggravated something in pre-game warm-ups and couldn't go, I can't imagine any reasonable person would describe that player as "not physically prepared." Rather, the person would just be out with an injury.
RE: when people describe what she did as brave  
crick n NC : 7/28/2021 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15315250 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
they aren't celebrating the overall result of what happened. It's sad and unfortunate that this happened to her and she had to go through all of this.

But pulling out due to "the twisties" in the warm-up so as to not put herself at risk of extreme injury (or hurt her team's chances) is thought of as brave by many precisely because of the stigma with mental issues. If arguably the best of all time could "get the twisties," then it's okay when others do as well.

If arguably the greatest of all time could pull herself off of the biggest stage at the last minute because she mentally lost control of her body and was not in the right place to compete safely or help her team, then it liberates others to do the same when they are struggling and would otherwise feel pressured to to put themselves at risk of catastrophic injury.
It also pushes the conversation forward about mental health, generally-- especially showing how even successful, talented people struggle.

I'd also disagree with the description as "not mentally prepared to participate." That seems a bit callous, as if it was a failing of effort on her part.

If an athlete tweaked or aggravated something in pre-game warm-ups and couldn't go, I can't imagine any reasonable person would describe that player as "not physically prepared." Rather, the person would just be out with an injury.


I think this is an excellent POV
RE: Stan..  
rnargi : 7/28/2021 1:39 pm : link
In comment 15315227 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
last night was a team competition


Forget it...he's rolling.

RE: RE: I'm still  
Bricktop : 7/28/2021 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15315229 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 15315217 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


struggling with the need to label it either heroic or the move of a loser.



And I'm struggling with how the reaction is ascribed to old white men...


As I succinctly Fucking explained above - all over MY social media are old white dudes posting from their couch, criticizing the actions of a 24 year old young woman who has accomplished more in her short life than they could in 10 lifetimes.

Only when someone brought up race did it occur to me what they were insinuating.

Don't get your granny panties all twisted in a fuckin knot.
RE: RE: RE: I'm still  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15315274 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15315229 BamaBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 15315217 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


struggling with the need to label it either heroic or the move of a loser.



And I'm struggling with how the reaction is ascribed to old white men...



As I succinctly Fucking explained above - all over MY social media are old white dudes posting from their couch, criticizing the actions of a 24 year old young woman who has accomplished more in her short life than they could in 10 lifetimes.

Only when someone brought up race did it occur to me what they were insinuating.

Don't get your granny panties all twisted in a fuckin knot.


Well... you certainly have shown that you have the pulse on old white men. You have a gift.
I don't even know what that means  
Bricktop : 7/28/2021 1:46 pm : link
and I really don't give a shit. Have a great day.
RE: when people describe what she did as brave  
pjcas18 : 7/28/2021 1:46 pm : link
In comment 15315250 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
they aren't celebrating the overall result of what happened. It's sad and unfortunate that this happened to her and she had to go through all of this.

But pulling out due to "the twisties" in the warm-up so as to not put herself at risk of extreme injury (or hurt her team's chances) is thought of as brave by many precisely because of the stigma with mental issues. If arguably the best of all time could "get the twisties," then it's okay when others do as well.

If arguably the greatest of all time could pull herself off of the biggest stage at the last minute because she mentally lost control of her body and was not in the right place to compete safely or help her team, then it liberates others to do the same when they are struggling and would otherwise feel pressured to to put themselves at risk of catastrophic injury.
It also pushes the conversation forward about mental health, generally-- especially showing how even successful, talented people struggle.

I'd also disagree with the description as "not mentally prepared to participate." That seems a bit callous, as if it was a failing of effort on her part.

If an athlete tweaked or aggravated something in pre-game warm-ups and couldn't go, I can't imagine any reasonable person would describe that player as "not physically prepared." Rather, the person would just be out with an injury.


this is semantics and strictly your interpretation of my words. When I wrote "not mentally prepared to participate" my intent with those words was not suggesting she failed. If you viewed it that way, that's your preconception not mine. It's simply a fact and I think that's what she even said or something close to that. Or something like she was "not there" mentally. Again semantics and sensitivity - seeing intent when there was none.

Biles own words for today were she is taking a "mental rest day" - maybe you find her own words offensive about her situation too because rest insinuates she's tired.
RE: Stan..  
Stan in LA : 7/28/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15315227 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
last night was a team competition

Duh! I know that. And like I said, the fact that she came back and rooted for the TEAM was brave.

BUT, gymnastics is essentially an individual sport with your individual scores NOT dependent on anyone else's performance unlike team sports like football, basketball, hockey, etc. Under this *team* concept you just add 'em up at the end and get a number. You are not competing with anyone else while you are preforming. To me, that's an individual sport jerry-rigged into a team concept.

Moreover, I was commenting about her withdrawal from the INDIVIDUAL event tomorrow which was the subject of the thread.
You  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/28/2021 1:56 pm : link
chose the words "not mentally prepared," repeatedly. I remarked that you don't see that when players aggravate an injury or get hurt in pre-game warm-ups.

Usually, when someone is described as "not prepared," the implication was do to a lack of effort of some kind of the subject's part.

"Rest" is also used for injury recovery and prevention as well and not just being "tired."
RE: I don't even know what that means  
BamaBlue : 7/28/2021 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15315285 Bricktop said:
Quote:
and I really don't give a shit. Have a great day.


You obviously also missed the ridiculousness and lack of self-awareness of your "old white man" statement.
RE: You  
pjcas18 : 7/28/2021 2:01 pm : link
In comment 15315310 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
chose the words "not mentally prepared," repeatedly. I remarked that you don't see that when players aggravate an injury or get hurt in pre-game warm-ups.

Usually, when someone is described as "not prepared," the implication was do to a lack of effort of some kind of the subject's part.

"Rest" is also used for injury recovery and prevention as well and not just being "tired."


Here is a quote from the NY Times to maybe get you off my case, where Biles agrees with me.

So, enough with the white knighting.

Quote:
....At the end of the day, we're human, too, so we have to protect our mind and our body rather than just go out there and do what the world wants us to do.” SIMONE BILES, who left the women's gymnastics final at the Tokyo Olympic Games, saying she was not mentally prepared to continue....

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I also disagree with the NYTimes characterizing  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/28/2021 2:40 pm : link
her has not being "mentally prepared." You rarely see athletes not right physically pulling out of a game and being referred to as "physically unprepared." It perpetuates the notion that a person's mental state is entirely controllable vis a vis their physical state. If she used those words herself, I'll concede the point.


And "white knighting?" Because I'm advocating for mental health issues? Grow up.
RE: I also disagree with the NYTimes characterizing  
pjcas18 : 7/28/2021 2:50 pm : link
In comment 15315363 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
her has not being "mentally prepared." You rarely see athletes not right physically pulling out of a game and being referred to as "physically unprepared." It perpetuates the notion that a person's mental state is entirely controllable vis a vis their physical state. If she used those words herself, I'll concede the point.


And "white knighting?" Because I'm advocating for mental health issues? Grow up.


You're white knighting because multiple people used words "not mentally prepared" that you took offense to with your inane parsing of words seeing intent to malign where none existed.

Except in your mind.


I wasn't offended  
PaulBlakeTSU : 7/28/2021 3:06 pm : link
I think referring to the state of not feeling right mentally to being "mentally unprepared" does a disservice to mental health. But I wasn't offended. Nor is that what "white knighting" means.
Completely fabricated and scripted  
giantBCP : 7/28/2021 3:22 pm : link
to create a racial narrative, just like the three black players taking the final penalties in the European Championship earlier this month.
Yes it's what White Knighting means  
pjcas18 : 7/28/2021 3:47 pm : link
leaping to or rushing to the defense of another (in this case Biles).

it's especially cringey since, again, the intent to be critical isn't there and you are being beyond pedantic analyzing word choice.

this is done. over. you made your point (which is wrong) and you're sticking with it, you have every right to continue showing your ass.

Who knew this would get so ironic?  
Mad Mike : 7/28/2021 3:50 pm : link
*
RE: Essex that's my take as well.  
compton : 7/28/2021 4:24 pm : link
In comment 15315215 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Think about the next gymnast that would've made it had Biles made this decision before the Olympics started. She stole that opportunity of a lifetime from someone who busted their tail for it.

I feel for her, but I also feel for the other person.


The other person wasn't good enough to make the team.
.  
Bill2 : 7/28/2021 4:27 pm : link
I dunno. When someone is under stress of expectations and flooded with emotions...not folding but rather taking care of yourself ( my recognizing reality instead of feelings) seems to fall under the rubric of a kind of courage.

Tons of people find it hard to be self aware or "break through" a loaded emotional situation.

If mental health care workers want to label it as a learning moment example for the many many people who they try to help live more courageous lives...im fine with that use of an object lesson from a sad situation.

How does any of that largely unknownable and harmless stew affect a grown man who doesn't know the sport or the person?

On the other hand it's a good thread to see easily and clearly what is not at all an act of courage or heroism
.  
Bill2 : 7/28/2021 4:28 pm : link
Should be: "by" recognizing
RE: Completely fabricated and scripted  
Jim in Fairfax : 7/28/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15315414 giantBCP said:
Quote:
to create a racial narrative, just like the three black players taking the final penalties in the European Championship earlier this month.

Um...what?
RE: RE: Essex that's my take as well.  
UConn4523 : 7/28/2021 4:45 pm : link
In comment 15315465 compton said:
Quote:
In comment 15315215 mittenedman said:


Quote:


Think about the next gymnast that would've made it had Biles made this decision before the Olympics started. She stole that opportunity of a lifetime from someone who busted their tail for it.

I feel for her, but I also feel for the other person.



The other person wasn't good enough to make the team.


Lost on this "opinion" is the fact that this happened during warmups. She didn't steal anything from anyone, its such a garbage take.
......  
Route 9 : 7/28/2021 5:02 pm : link
How many damn words are you guys going to put in quotes? Who would have thought the dr. Evil way of talking would be our mainstream vernacular.
I have no problem with what Simone did, She can contemplate her  
MartyNJ1969 : 7/28/2021 8:50 pm : link
mental issues as she his counting her endorsement Benjamins. I am sure that will alleviate any pain (emotional or Physical) she is having now.

In a way, she turned the house on the casino. She was at the epic top peak of earning potential and took the endorsers for a ride. Whether intentional or unintentional it doesn't matter. But I bet marketing teams will rethink their formula for investing in amateur athletes to promote their product based on what happed here going forward.
RE: Completely fabricated and scripted  
Bricktop : 7/28/2021 8:56 pm : link
In comment 15315414 giantBCP said:
Quote:
to create a racial narrative, just like the three black players taking the final penalties in the European Championship earlier this month.


Holy shit.

You LOSE the internet today. What a fuckin jackass.
Perhaps it's simply a matter of timing  
santacruzom : 7/28/2021 11:10 pm : link
Seems like societal concerns about mental health have receded again. My guess is, had she made this decision within days after a well-publicized mass shooting, she would have benefitted from half the country suddenly concerning themselves with mental health and how its stigma prevents people from seeking help. Such people would then have been very wary to criticize her, lest they risk their bluff being called.
RE: Completely fabricated and scripted  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/29/2021 6:36 am : link
In comment 15315414 giantBCP said:
Quote:
to create a racial narrative, just like the three black players taking the final penalties in the European Championship earlier this month.


WTF?
Arguing about heroics seem pretty silly, if not just unnecessary.  
Jimmy Googs : 7/29/2021 11:29 am : link
Biles wasn't able to go and put her best foot forward. By the looks of things shown by the TV coverage, this has been building up over time in recent prior events/practices.

She did the smart thing to recognize it and back out, not hurt herself and let the team try to pick her up. Just like she has done for other US teams over her entire career. The team did the best they could and got the Silver.

Biles has had a fantastic Olympic career.

There is nothing else here.
RE: …  
The Jake : 7/29/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15315214 christian said:
Quote:
Heroic feels a little hyperbolic, I think the best description is commendable or admirable.


I'm late to the party, but this hits the nail on the head for me. Why argue about whether what Biles did is "heroic" or not? I'm not sure why people feel the need to take an extreme stance on this one way or the other, given the limited perspective that everyone who isn't an olympic gymnast has.

Why can't it just be - Simone Biles did the right thing and I'm glad she didn't get hurt?

I know Kerri Strug was mentioned a couple of times in this thread, but in case anyone doesn't know the details - she was persuaded to compete on a badly injured leg and - after protesting that she couldn't compete on television for the whole world to see - she was forced to compete anyway and injured herself even worse. She was then forced to retire at age 18. We then learned after the fact that her competing wasn't even necessary and her team would've won gold anyway. This is someone who started training at age 3.

That's not heroism. That's a waste.
Heroism  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2021 12:09 pm : link
is subjective which is why this whole discussion is stupid. It’s largely politically driven anyway just like everything else these days.

No one is making you call her a hero. No one is making you watch news coverage or read an article calling her a hero. If you don’t like her being called a hero, move on, it really is that simple.

We call people legends, goats, role models, etc, but apparently the word hero is a big no no, it’s bizarre.
RE: RE: …  
j_rud : 7/29/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15316339 The Jake said:
Quote:
In comment 15315214 christian said:


Quote:




Why can't it just be - Simone Biles did the right thing and I'm glad she didn't get hurt?



Because rational, reasonable, and non-inflammatory responses are not welcome in the age of spicy 280 character hot takes.
RE: I'm still  
Section331 : 7/29/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15315217 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
struggling with the need to label it either heroic or the move of a loser.

It was a personal decision carried out in the public eye, but we are seemingly programmed with having to label everything to fit an opinion.

To me, this was a personal choice that was made that is neither cowardly nor heroic. Just as any athlete leaving a contest due to an injury or event is heroic or cowardly


I mostly agree with this. Heroic might be a bit of an overstatement, but there is still a stigma attached to mental health, and discussing it publicly does take some courage. As others have stated, the complexities of her routines leave chance for serious injury if she isn't right, so I give her credit for recognizing that and acting on it.

As she said, she felt her team had a better chance of medalling if she didn't perform.
RE: RE: RE: …  
UConn4523 : 7/29/2021 12:54 pm : link
In comment 15316370 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 15316339 The Jake said:


Quote:


In comment 15315214 christian said:


Quote:




Why can't it just be - Simone Biles did the right thing and I'm glad she didn't get hurt?





Because rational, reasonable, and non-inflammatory responses are not welcome in the age of spicy 280 character hot takes.


That’s just it though, calling her a hero isn’t inflammatory.
RE: Heroism  
santacruzom : 7/29/2021 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15316349 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
is subjective which is why this whole discussion is stupid. It’s largely politically driven anyway just like everything else these days.


Yeah, usually heroism is simply something we apply towards someone who's willing to perform against their own best interests in order to conform to our wants.
I don't think she is a hero (that word is thrown around way to much  
Zeke's Alibi : 7/29/2021 1:31 pm : link
anyway) but what she did was certainly brave. This thread proves that with almost 200 comments.
The reason given for her not competing  
montanagiant : 7/29/2021 2:27 pm : link
Is that she caught the "twisties" which is similar to getting the yips when golfing and is common in gymnastics. The biggest difference is that in her world the twisties can cause serious damage during a performance.

She noticed it on her first run vault run which required her to do 2 1/2 twists of her body. She got lost mid-twist and only accomplished 1 1/2 twist. Supposedly getting the twisties means your mind is not connecting right with your body.

Given those factors I don't blame her
.  
Bill2 : 7/29/2021 6:26 pm : link
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/07/29/simone-biles-larry-nassar-fbi/
I absolutely support Biles' decision  
Matt M. : 7/31/2021 2:17 pm : link
and her right to do so. But, I am starting to tire of the praise and calls of heroism. All she did was make a smart choice for her physical and mental well being.

That is not diminishing the impact of mental health. But, if it is really this "twisties", then the decision is purely self preservation. If there are underlying mental health issues, then I don't think she is above some questions. I wouldn't say criticism is warranted, but isn't at least fair to question where her head was prior and whether the fair outcome would have been to decline her spot from the beginning and let someone else make the trip to Japan?

On the flip side, the criticism calling her a coward, a traitor, turning her back on her country, etc. are ignorant and reprehensible.

...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 7/31/2021 2:20 pm : link
'On the flip side, the criticism calling her a coward, a traitor, turning her back on her country, etc. are ignorant and reprehensible.'

& all too predictable. I have co-workers who are rooting AGAINST the US women's national soccer team for reasons I won't get into here. & how one can root against a team with that smokeshow Alex Morgan on it...I will never understand.
RE: ...  
Matt M. : 7/31/2021 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15318403 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
'On the flip side, the criticism calling her a coward, a traitor, turning her back on her country, etc. are ignorant and reprehensible.'

& all too predictable. I have co-workers who are rooting AGAINST the US women's national soccer team for reasons I won't get into here. & how one can root against a team with that smokeshow Alex Morgan on it...I will never understand.
Yeah,
I don't get that either. Ihave read more about their pay battle and changed my stance of support on that issue. But, in general, how are they un-American or traitors for supporting social, racial, and gender justice? This opens a whole other can of worms that I don't think belongs here. But, just in general, how is it not hypocritical to call them traitors and criticize them as disrespecting their country and then you rooting against them? Isn't that unpatriotic?
......  
Route 9 : 7/31/2021 4:46 pm : link
Ha. What's to like? I'm not going out of my way to root against them, but I do think it's funny when they got blasted by Sweden.

Forget Megan Rapinoe and her Blanka purple hair.
Biles and all of the other female gymnasts...  
manh george : 7/31/2021 5:33 pm : link
were abandoned by the American Olympic Committee and the Gymnastics organization, when they were being abused by Nassar. Then, the gymnastics people got an FBI agent involved to cover up the scandal.(link)

Quote:
Simone Biles was abandoned by American Olympic officials, and the torment hasn’t stopped

The trouble with the phrase “mental health” is that it’s an abstraction that allows you to sail right straight over what happened to Simone Biles and, in a way, what is still happening to her. To this day, American Olympic officials continue to betray her. They deny that they had a legal duty to protect her and others from rapist-child pornographer Larry Nassar, and they continue to evade accountability in judicial maneuvering. Abuse is a current event for her.

It’s a perilous endeavor to project what Biles, the most uniquely superior gymnast in the world, is feeling or thinking at this juncture. But she has been frank about these things: her profound lingering distrust of USA Gymnastics and the USOPC and her conviction they will not do right by her and other athletes of their own accord. Remember, if it wasn’t for Biles bringing her clout to the issue, these users would still be making women train in the buggy squalor of the Karolyi Ranch, the USOPC-sanctioned hellhole where they were molested.

As Biles told NBC’s Hoda Kotb in a recent interview, one of the main reasons she came back for another Olympics at age 24 was to try to ensure some accountability. “If there weren’t a remaining survivor in the sport, they would’ve just brushed it to the side,” she said.


Yes, Simone is hero for pushing through all of this and supporting her younger and less powerful teammates. And as is often the case, the USOC is a bunch of cowards.


Link - ( New Window )
......  
Route 9 : 7/31/2021 6:03 pm : link
FBI ... lol
RE: Biles and all of the other female gymnasts...  
dpinzow : 7/31/2021 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15318456 manh george said:
Quote:
were abandoned by the American Olympic Committee and the Gymnastics organization, when they were being abused by Nassar. Then, the gymnastics people got an FBI agent involved to cover up the scandal.(link)



Quote:


Simone Biles was abandoned by American Olympic officials, and the torment hasn’t stopped

The trouble with the phrase “mental health” is that it’s an abstraction that allows you to sail right straight over what happened to Simone Biles and, in a way, what is still happening to her. To this day, American Olympic officials continue to betray her. They deny that they had a legal duty to protect her and others from rapist-child pornographer Larry Nassar, and they continue to evade accountability in judicial maneuvering. Abuse is a current event for her.

It’s a perilous endeavor to project what Biles, the most uniquely superior gymnast in the world, is feeling or thinking at this juncture. But she has been frank about these things: her profound lingering distrust of USA Gymnastics and the USOPC and her conviction they will not do right by her and other athletes of their own accord. Remember, if it wasn’t for Biles bringing her clout to the issue, these users would still be making women train in the buggy squalor of the Karolyi Ranch, the USOPC-sanctioned hellhole where they were molested.

As Biles told NBC’s Hoda Kotb in a recent interview, one of the main reasons she came back for another Olympics at age 24 was to try to ensure some accountability. “If there weren’t a remaining survivor in the sport, they would’ve just brushed it to the side,” she said.



Yes, Simone is hero for pushing through all of this and supporting her younger and less powerful teammates. And as is often the case, the USOC is a bunch of cowards.
Link - ( New Window )


US gymnastics as an organization is seedy and disgusting, to say the least, and has been for a while. I'm frankly surprised we've still got high quality athletes in women's gymnastics because what parent would want to trust US gymnastics with their daughter with their history?
Manh  
Bill2 : 7/31/2021 6:36 pm : link
Thank you.

That's the real point.

Some or those slime balls are at the Olympics pretending the sport is them.

That alone is enough to trigger someone.

US Gymnastics ( especially recent past) is an abusive bucket for some of these young women.
I figured B'd get suspended for this thread  
adamg : 8/1/2021 2:15 am : link
He's a good dude. Too good for BBI apparently.
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