First Two Years
....................Daniel Jones ..... Josh Allen
Completion Pct....62.2................56.3
Pass YPG..........221.1...............184.4
TD/INT............35-22...............30-21
Passer Rating.....84.1................78.2
Per NFL Network
Link - (
New Window )
There is a deluded fringe sect on BBI that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is hot garbage and always will be. There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB. Unfortunately those two odd fringes account for 75% of the activity on any Jones thread.
The threads during and after every game are going to be unbearable because neither fringe will ever take a day off from their crusade.
Agree 100%.
There is a deluded fringe sect on BBI that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is hot garbage and always will be. There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB. Unfortunately those two odd fringes account for 75% of the activity on any Jones thread.
The threads during and after every game are going to be unbearable because neither fringe will ever take a day off from their crusade.
Gotta just lurk and not take them seriously. It’s a lot more entertaining that way.
Plus, Jones is much better than Allen anyway so this is all a moot point and a waste of time to talk about.
"Hot garbage" and "Top flight" were both hyperbole. But there are plenty of posts over the last year of folks comparing him favorably against some of the best QBs playing, and even saying they would only trade him for 4-5 active QBs.
I think most fans realize he has been a mixed bag so far. He has flashed talent at times and he has looked lost at others. The question is whether he moves definitively in one or another direction, or he simply remains inconsistent. But I agree this year is critical for him.
Every year, they underwhelm compared to expectations. This is something we should laud??
Fuck us.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
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There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB.
Another grossly inaccurate attempt at the "both sides" argument aimed at ignoring the facts.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
Already addressed in above response. Several posters have compared him favorably to some of the better QBs playing, suggesting they would not trade Jones but for 4 or 5 QBs in the league.
Not an example of "both sides" argument at all. It is an example of folks not being able to see their own biases.
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There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB.
Another grossly inaccurate attempt at the "both sides" argument aimed at ignoring the facts.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
Before all of the lawsuits surfaced, Watson made it clear he wanted out of Houston. And I argued we should get in those sweepstakes. Yet, there were posters here - again, before the revelations of sexual assault/misconduct - who still thought it would be smarter to stay with Jones.
I mean, even if you have some cap concerns, which a few of showed was actually manageable, you really have to have your vision and football acumen questioned to still want to stick with Jones.
Chris Simms (April 2, 2018) [from Chiefs' SB Nation]:
He’s got elite arm talent, a [Brett] Favre or [Pat] Mahomes arm. Elite athlete for his size, like Carson Wentz. People talk about his accuracy, but his pass-protection was poor, and he had the worst talent around him of any of these guys.
As far as Vegas odds, Allen was the number two betting favorite, after Darnold, to go first overall throughout the draft process. Rosen was third and Mayfield a distant fourth, until word started to leak from the Browns just before the draft.
During the process, there were plenty of "Darnold vs Allen" articles, such as the one linked.
Who's number one? Sam Darnold or Josh Allen? - ( New Window )
Doesn't this thread compare Jones to a 2nd team All-Pro QB?
I keep hearing posters ask how Tom Brady was able to throw passes right into the Jugs machine.
Things happen.
Sorry, speedlines, a lot of reports indicated that Shurmur wanted Allen at #2 overall.
I guess that baby got flushed with the bathwater.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
LOL. Since you're seemingly stuck in 2018, you might as well post it.
Revisionist history maybe on BBI, not everywhere else. Allen got plenty of chatter in the sports media although seemed like he was being characterized as the "boom or bust" guy amongst the QBs in that draft.
Mostly recall predominate BBI sentiments back then arguing/debating between A) not picking a QB at #2 because we had Eli so the default should be Saquon; and B) if Getts did go with a QB then it should be between Darnold and Rosen.
There were absolutely many other threads and conversations on other players including Mayfield, Allen, Jackson and maybe 1-2 others. And of course trading out of the #2 pick was discussed as well.
If my memory serves me, also remember "cons" discussed on those other QBs: Mayfield issues were immaturity and size; Allen was about lack of accuracy and competition; and Jackson was simply not a NYG-type of QB.
As noted earlier, not sure why more love was not given to Allen and Jackson by the NY Giants, but it wasn't...
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I could post my thread from that February making a case for drafting Lamar Jackson, but I won't.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
LOL. Since you're seemingly stuck in 2018, you might as well post it.
2018 matters a ton. The mistakes that started then shape the team now. We are all still stuck in 2018.
Absolutely. He was the bold move at #2. Sure, there would have been similar growing pains, but it would have been worth it. While I think there is still fat to trim from his game, Allen is a stud.
Look, it's been mentioned 1K times - Gettleman went the safe route choosing Barkley. And essentially admitted it.
If Barkley never rebounds to his rookie form, and Hernandez continues to look average (at best), the 2018 draft will live in infamy...
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
But, why are some of us ridiculed as “fans” or heretics or worse for pointing out that Jones has been lousy?
Jones first game against Tampa was impressive. Then he had that loss last year against Philly where I thought (for the first time since the Tampa game) that he flashed as a legit QB1. But aside from those games, I just remember Jones being unspectacular or injured or bad.
But maybe someone else can remind me of Jones’ big plays and big moments and game winning drives and smart reads and big throws in the places where it counted the most? For instance, what is Jones’ signature game so far? For that matter, what are the top three games? Aside from pure hope, what is it exactly that make Jones’ optimistic defenders so excited for his big evolution this season?
This is the root of the problem right here. Agree or disagree about what Jones is or will become, but when you start posting that people aren't fans of the team because they don't believe in a player, you are just showing your insecurity.
I am an Islander fan and I think Leo Komarov sucks balls. That doesn't mean I am no longer an Islander fan. Plenty of Ranger fans waxed poetic about how much Tanner Glass sucked. Did they all stop being Ranger fans, or did they just have eyes and brains.
Doubting Daniel Jones or Dave Gettleman says absolutely nothing about whether you are a good fan or not. It's stupidity at it's lowest.
Why is the prevailing opinion that the next game he plays well will be his first? It's kin of ridiculous that there's a narrative out there that he flat out sucks and has since day 1.
Then again - one blowhard keeps reiterating this, so apparently it takes hold.
My own prediction is Jones puts up a below-average/averageish year, and we are hoping to upgrade the position in next year's draft. But I wouldn't be stunned if Jones puts up a good year. I'd be stunned if he throws for 40 TDs and competes for the MVP.
There's a little too much certainty by the Jones pessimists IMO.
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
Last year I was hoping to see growth from Jones and instead I saw a regression. Yes the team around him sucked, it was a new system and there was no traditional training camp. All understood. But what troubled me most was not that he fumbled a lot or put up below average numbers. What bothered me most was that he often looked slow to make decisions or was completely unsure. Playing QB looked unnatural to him, despite doing it most of his life at a pretty high level.
I expect Jones will put up average numbers. I hope he puts up all-pro numbers. But wanting him to do that and believing he will are very different and don't make me a sad, bitter Eagle fan.
Unfortunately, and conveniently it seems, the overwhelming average to poor games get ignored.
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
According to some in the "vocal majority" around here, that would show improvement...
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signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
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In comment 15316837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
Actually the last Dallas game was in 2021, so...
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In comment 15316837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
So 2020 isn't relevant to 2021, but citing 4 games in 2019 is? Do I have that right?
First of all, going back a year before Jones, Allen is really not relevant. The Giants were seemingly never interested in him because if it wasn't Barkley, by most accounts, it was Darnold. Plus, EVERY QB taken in the first round of that year had a significant enough reason not to bank your franchise on him.
Present day, Allen serves as a nice position to strive for where the player took that sought after year 3 leap in production. We can hope for something similar, but one player/situation has nothing to do with the other.
As for Jones himself, why can't most just agree to this: His rookie year was dotted with some outright impressive performances. Likewise, it was dotted with excessive fumbles and rookie mistakes. There was reason for optimism, almost to a man, after that season. However, last year, was just overwhelmingly bad. The season was really just dotted with downright bad to mediocre performances and out only big win came with our journeyman backup at the helm. Turnovers jumped, TDs shrank.
That is where the fork in the road is. Some, still cling to his rookie year for optimism. Some cling to an overall dismal 2020 for pessimism that this is the best we are going to get. Then another group, where I am, are on the fence and need to see this year. No group is right or wrong AT THIS POINT because there is so much we still don't know about Jones. But, let's not act like any one of those groups is crazy or genius.
Jones was not a conventional pick at #6. There are people in the media and the league who felt he had the talent to back and some who disagree. That is no different than the fan base. Regardless of which camp you fall into, this year is critical for Jones. That's that. Please stop debating it. Please stop posting an article about his work on his own with receivers as PROOF that he is good. Likewise please stop dismissing those types of pieces as pointless and he is bad. Those articles are puff pieces. Nothing more, nothing less. They are nice to read as a fan, but they PROVE nothing.
Which is why 2020 the questions were: can Jones stop turning the ball over and win some games. Unfortunately, the answer was yes to the first question, Jones got better protecting the ball. But he didn't win games. More to the point, he wasn't the reason the Giants won games. At his best, Jones was a game manager.
The most important stat for an NFL QB1 is wins and losses. TDs to INTs is probably next. The rest? You have to know the context of the game. Throwing for 400+ yards in a meaningless last game of the year against WFT isn't that impressive. Where are the big games and the big plays for Jones? Where are the games where Jones was the reason the Giants won? I don't think we've seen one of those. So, again, unless I'm forgetting a game somewhere, in that regard, yeah, his next big win will be his first.
Jones was not a conventional pick at #6. There are people in the media and the league who felt he had the talent to back and some who disagree. That is no different than the fan base. Regardless of which camp you fall into, this year is critical for Jones. That's that. Please stop debating it. Please stop posting an article about his work on his own with receivers as PROOF that he is good. Likewise please stop dismissing those types of pieces as pointless and he is bad. Those articles are puff pieces. Nothing more, nothing less. They are nice to read as a fan, but they PROVE nothing.
Three years without a single day over .500. Proven and dyed in the wool.
Hopefully this year is different, but there isn't much reason to believe it will be.
I am optimistic though. I think Gettleman, Jones, and Barkley aren't long for this team as Judge gets the job done in a competent manner.
To be fair, beating Dallas, granted they were without Prescott, the last game of the season when we were still alive for the NFCE was a fairly good effort.
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I don't think we've seen one of those. So, again, unless I'm forgetting a game somewhere, in that regard, yeah, his next big win will be his first.
To be fair, beating Dallas, granted they were without Prescott, the last game of the season when we were still alive for the NFCE was a fairly good effort.
That’s would qualify as a big win. But, I honestly don’t remember how Jones played in that game. Looking at the stats, he had a pick and a lost a fumble and threw two TDs. Another stat that jumped out at me was 0-7 on third down conversions. But, again, honestly don’t remember, was Jones really good in this game?
That’s solid.
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Is it always so much arguing around here? I don't care, just curious because it feels like there is some serious bad blood here.
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
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In comment 15316676 JuliusPepperwood said:
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Is it always so much arguing around here? I don't care, just curious because it feels like there is some serious bad blood here.
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
Hey thanks! I came here for breaking news but the arguing is pretty compelling. So what are the extreme ends, it looks like people for and against Daniel Jones or is it more than that?
Daniel Jones, whether a hot dog is a sandwich, etc. The important things.