First Two Years
....................Daniel Jones ..... Josh Allen
Completion Pct....62.2................56.3
Pass YPG..........221.1...............184.4
TD/INT............35-22...............30-21
Passer Rating.....84.1................78.2
Per NFL Network
Link - (
New Window )
I'm sure they will chime in here to reinforce why....
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
Your whole statement is messed up. It is absolutely a good comparison as far as their 1st two years go. The point being this is year and can we expect Jones to make that leap forward with better players around him. The point of the comparison was not to say they are the same it was to say Jones's numbers look better after the first two years so imagine if the talent around him (which is now improved and led the NFL Network discussion before turning to Jones specifically) plays like expected Jones could make an ALLEN like leap year 3.
Allen spent time at a JC and then at Wyoming. Jones spent three years with someone considered one of the better QB developers who already had two SB winning QB's on his resume. It would make sense that it would take him more time to reach his potential.
But Josh Allen's 2nd year was quite a bit better than Daniel Jones' 2nd year.
I'm therefore not so sure this comparison is very favorable to Jones... assuming you want to see a QB get better and not worse, that is.
And let me know if you see anything different between the two...
....................Daniel Jones ..... Josh Allen
Completion Pct....62.2................56.3
Pass YPG..........221.1...............184.4
TD/INT............35-22...............30-21
Passer Rating.....84.1................78.2
with rushing and fumble information
Yds/Gm (Pass+Rush)
Jones: 247.1
Allen: 225.2
Total TDs (P+R)/INTs + FUM
Jones: 38 / 51
Allen: 47 / 43
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
Not only that, but Jones' second year was a mess because of Covid, AND he had a new coaching staff and system.
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
But Josh Allen's 2nd year was quite a bit better than Daniel Jones' 2nd year.
I'm therefore not so sure this comparison is very favorable to Jones... assuming you want to see a QB get better and not worse, that is.
Except Jones' second year included a new offensive coaching staff and philosophy AND having to get used to it with Covid and no preseason. There is no way you can compare Jones's second year with Allen's second year.
Plus, Allen had Josh Brown and Cole Beasley as his top two receivers in 2019. How many here would take Shepard and Slayton over them?
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
Geno Smith had 12 TDs and 21 interceptions his first year, with a rating of 66. His second year he had 13 TDs and 13 INTs (so 25 TDs and 34 INTs in two years) with a rating of 77. His completion percentages were 55 and 60. His yards per game were 190 and 180.
What the NFL Replacement Refs Need to Know (Jerry Glanville)
Opinion: NFL really means Not For Long, so rookies, here's advice on reality of league Jarrett Bell USA TODAY - May 4, 2019 - ( New Window )
It is also about the mental gymnastics that some will go through to prove that they know better than everyone else (including those that do this for a living) in the room.
DJ may or may not develop into a franchise QB, but the guys that know the most, believe that he will.
If you think Josh Allen and Daniel Jones are comparable, you're as dumb as gidie.
If you think Josh Allen and Daniel Jones are comparable, you're as dumb as gidie.
Go Panic rides again
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
The Bill's GM was on the ESPN morning show back in January i believe. When KJZ credited Diggs with the leap Allen, he replied that the biggest thing was actually upgrading the OL in Allen's 2nd year because "weapons don't matter if the QB isn't upright"
Just watch Buffalo and see how much time Allen has to work with. Give Jones a really good line and he will produce like Josh Allen has.
Daniel Jones Duke 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
2018
Josh Allen Wyoming 62 (Left) 62 (Right)
(all-time combine record)
The long lofted pass, which Jones can throw, is not the test of the laser arm. Allen has it; Jones does not.
Jones may still be a success, and we can all hope, but it is unfair to him to set an expectation that he is going to be Josh Allen.
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On the other those numbers, while similar, dont mean a whole lot other than to show that a young QB with potential is capable of improving. But thats common knowledge. But the similarity doesnt mean Jones *will* see a similar 3rd year jump. The road is littered with guys who flashed but ultimately fizzled. Im sure there are plenty of guys who never panned out who had similar rookie/soph seasons. Id be willing to bet Geno Smith had comparable numbers.
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
Geno Smith had 12 TDs and 21 interceptions his first year, with a rating of 66. His second year he had 13 TDs and 13 INTs (so 25 TDs and 34 INTs in two years) with a rating of 77. His completion percentages were 55 and 60. His yards per game were 190 and 180.
So below Allen and Jones but in the same neighborhood (rushing ability notwithstanding)
930 yards, 17 TDs.
Yes, 17 TDs. Almost as much rushing TDs in his second year (9) as Jones had throwing.
Oh, and Allen plays in Buffalo.
Barkley or Allen?
It is also about the mental gymnastics that some will go through to prove that they know better than everyone else (including those that do this for a living) in the room.
DJ may or may not develop into a franchise QB, but the guys that know the most, believe that he will.
Are these really mental gymnastics to you?
They shouldn't be...
In year 3 Allen became one of the better QBs in the league. In year 3, Darnold continued to be a below average QB.
Both of those comparisons are equally as informative as to what Jones will be in year 3. He could become Allen. He could become Darnold. Most likely he will fall somewhere in between. But the progression of the career of Allen and Darnold have NOTHING to do with the career progression of Daniel Jones.
So what we learned here is...nothing.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Haha!
Barkley or Allen?
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Josh Allen had an improved year in his 2nd year and the Bills were a playoff team. There were many situations where he made the plays he needed to at the right times to win games. Cherry picking stats and ignoring the fact that the Giants best win last year was with Jones on the bench is just not an accurate representation of how the players played at all.
Jones just isn't the most promising player right now. He is not someone that looks worthy of the 6th pick, that does not look like a very sound decision and it was the most important one by this current front office. No amount of stat cherry picking or articles on romantic steak dinners is going to change that, despite the seemingly very strong desire to do that.
Yes he could absolutely turn the corner this year, 100% and show that he was worthy of where he was drafted. But there is not any kind of data trend to support that, not one. He regressed and he's never shown he can make plays and take care of the ball. We don't know if he is capable of even being a consistent playmaker outside of having Shurmur as a coach, which that is one of the strengths of Shurmur.
Players diverge from their growth trajectory all the time but that doesn't make it even remotely sound analysis to project a divergence to a player without showing some tangible reason for that to change or an inflection point in the data. Hard work and taking your job seriously isn't valid, there are countless tireless workers that have succeeded and failed in the NFL. The need to act like it's important to draft "good" people and that's the Giants secret sauce is actually getting quite annoying when you handle the Josh Brown situation the way you did. When you extend Beckham then trash him despite him being the same guy he always was. Landon Collins being a future leader one year and a bad guy the next. Deandre Baker. Toney is not a clean prospect in that regard, it remains to be seen how that goes.
The Giants want to wield this moral superiority only when it suits them. When people underperform, if it's Jones, or Mara or whoever everyone wants to talk about what good people they are. Being a "good" person doesn't excuse being bad at your job, it just doesn't.
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Unfortunately our so called QB of the future plays much more like a back-up QB than a starter right now.
Hopefully he starts to sniff the ability and production of the MVP caliber Allen. Because right now it's not even close.
Josh Allen had an improved year in his 2nd year and the Bills were a playoff team. There were many situations where he made the plays he needed to at the right times to win games. Cherry picking stats and ignoring the fact that the Giants best win last year was with Jones on the bench is just not an accurate representation of how the players played at all.
Jones just isn't the most promising player right now. He is not someone that looks worthy of the 6th pick, that does not look like a very sound decision and it was the most important one by this current front office. No amount of stat cherry picking or articles on romantic steak dinners is going to change that, despite the seemingly very strong desire to do that.
Yes he could absolutely turn the corner this year, 100% and show that he was worthy of where he was drafted. But there is not any kind of data trend to support that, not one. He regressed and he's never shown he can make plays and take care of the ball. We don't know if he is capable of even being a consistent playmaker outside of having Shurmur as a coach, which that is one of the strengths of Shurmur.
Players diverge from their growth trajectory all the time but that doesn't make it even remotely sound analysis to project a divergence to a player without showing some tangible reason for that to change or an inflection point in the data. Hard work and taking your job seriously isn't valid, there are countless tireless workers that have succeeded and failed in the NFL. The need to act like it's important to draft "good" people and that's the Giants secret sauce is actually getting quite annoying when you handle the Josh Brown situation the way you did. When you extend Beckham then trash him despite him being the same guy he always was. Landon Collins being a future leader one year and a bad guy the next. Deandre Baker. Toney is not a clean prospect in that regard, it remains to be seen how that goes.
The Giants want to wield this moral superiority only when it suits them. When people underperform, if it's Jones, or Mara or whoever everyone wants to talk about what good people they are. Being a "good" person doesn't excuse being bad at your job, it just doesn't.
yeah -- and with more frightening regularity there are regular threads bashing Jones and the Giants and calling for his immediate removal
Bal-ance
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Had we played our cards right in '18, we could have grabbed Allen at #2 and Chubb at #34.
How much better would we all feel about that now?
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Because its summer and football hasn't really started, we can talk about these things...
I agree the Giants were never taking Allen. We know enough from info that has leaked that the player order was Saquon Barkley and then Bradley Chubb. The only other considered thought was a trade down but seems like that was dismissed with little interest once Barkley didn't going #1 and DG heard the offers.
So the real question is why Allen wasn't a consideration?
Was it as simple as the Giants weren't ever going with QB because they were still in bed with Eli so their due diligence on the QBs that year was superficial and more of a standard exercise versus true interest of finding their next franchise guy?
Or did they actually do heavy scouting on all the QBs that year and come to conclusion nobody was really worth it?
There always is some rumors that say Darnold was the top QB on their board but obviously he could only have only been 3rd best (behind Barkley and Chubb). So why wasn't Allen a real consideration and right up their with Darnold in their scouting?
And I thought I heard or read where Shurmur was very impressed and intrigued with Allen.
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Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Had we played our cards right in '18, we could have grabbed Allen at #2 and Chubb at #34.
How much better would we all feel about that now?
How much better would we be if we took Fred Warner and Orlando Brown in round 3 instead of Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill?
What if we never traded up in 2019 for DeAndre Baker and just stayed put and took Elgton Jenkins?
Please -- haven't you been reading Go Panic's almost daily assault
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In comment 15315381 bw in dc said:
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Unfortunately our so called QB of the future plays much more like a back-up QB than a starter right now.
Hopefully he starts to sniff the ability and production of the MVP caliber Allen. Because right now it's not even close.
Fresh take. Thanks!
There are almost daily threads acting like Jones was a much better pick than he has shown to be, or accomplished more than he has. Or we should be more excited about him because he takes his job seriously.
And yeah, that needs to be balanced out because like many I'm concerned that this propaganda will result in DJ getting more of a chance than his play merits.
There is this idea that people want to push a negative agenda and there is just far less evidence of that. Certainly in threads being started pushing those ideas. It's not really an equal amount of jabs on both sides.
It's one side being like you should really all be more excited about Jones!!! And the other side being like, I'd love to be excited but he just needs to prove more on the field. And that's really what it comes down to he needs to produce no amount of puff pieces or data torturing is going to change that
You really have it bad NoGain -- how sad for you
There is a deluded fringe sect on BBI that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is hot garbage and always will be. There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB. Unfortunately those two odd fringes account for 75% of the activity on any Jones thread.
The threads during and after every game are going to be unbearable because neither fringe will ever take a day off from their crusade.
The only true fact, which few people here seldom seem to admit or accept, is that Daniel Jones’ future is not etched in stone.
You really have it bad NoGain -- how sad for you
There you go cherry picking stats again. The one stat we care about is Superbowl wins since 2000? Why? Because that fits the world view you'd like?
Giants since 2012 - 57-87 or a 39.58% winning pct
Cowboys since 2012 - 78-66 or a 54.17% winning pct
Which owner is the joke again?
It's just such a narrow cherry picked metric, SBs since 2000, you go back 10 more years and it's Cowboys 3 SB wins to the Giants 2.
I don't know what is so sad about wanting people to look at numbers honestly vs. a need to twist them more favorably just because that's more comforting.
I've been much happier keeping my expectations low for this team as to not be massively disappointed when I see them take the field. That seems to be a strong desire of the people that want to have an almost delusional optimism about this team, to paint those that don't as if we suffer for it.
I prefer to not get my hopes up for things that have disappointed me time and time again and that seems like a pretty normal thing to prefer actually.
You invented this Superbowls in the last 20 years metric to move the goalposts from what I said. I don't want to move the windows that far, you did and I simply said why not 30 years if we are going 21?
Why on earth should I care about a Superbowl victory in 2012 when we've won 39% of our games the last 8 years?
I don't think Jerry Jones is doing some great job, but fans
of this team seem to mock him a lot when his team has been better than league average in that same period.
Jerry Jones hasn't done shit, his son has been running the show for some time now. It's pretty documented that JJ wanted Manziel, so it's at least for that long.
There is a deluded fringe sect on BBI that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is hot garbage and always will be. There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB. Unfortunately those two odd fringes account for 75% of the activity on any Jones thread.
The threads during and after every game are going to be unbearable because neither fringe will ever take a day off from their crusade.
Agree 100%.
There is a deluded fringe sect on BBI that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is hot garbage and always will be. There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB. Unfortunately those two odd fringes account for 75% of the activity on any Jones thread.
The threads during and after every game are going to be unbearable because neither fringe will ever take a day off from their crusade.
Gotta just lurk and not take them seriously. It’s a lot more entertaining that way.
Plus, Jones is much better than Allen anyway so this is all a moot point and a waste of time to talk about.
"Hot garbage" and "Top flight" were both hyperbole. But there are plenty of posts over the last year of folks comparing him favorably against some of the best QBs playing, and even saying they would only trade him for 4-5 active QBs.
I think most fans realize he has been a mixed bag so far. He has flashed talent at times and he has looked lost at others. The question is whether he moves definitively in one or another direction, or he simply remains inconsistent. But I agree this year is critical for him.
Every year, they underwhelm compared to expectations. This is something we should laud??
Fuck us.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
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There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB.
Another grossly inaccurate attempt at the "both sides" argument aimed at ignoring the facts.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
Already addressed in above response. Several posters have compared him favorably to some of the better QBs playing, suggesting they would not trade Jones but for 4 or 5 QBs in the league.
Not an example of "both sides" argument at all. It is an example of folks not being able to see their own biases.
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There is an equally deluded fringe sect that has seen enough to know Daniel Jones is a top flight NFL QB.
Another grossly inaccurate attempt at the "both sides" argument aimed at ignoring the facts.
Who has stated that DJ is a top flight QB?
Before all of the lawsuits surfaced, Watson made it clear he wanted out of Houston. And I argued we should get in those sweepstakes. Yet, there were posters here - again, before the revelations of sexual assault/misconduct - who still thought it would be smarter to stay with Jones.
I mean, even if you have some cap concerns, which a few of showed was actually manageable, you really have to have your vision and football acumen questioned to still want to stick with Jones.
Chris Simms (April 2, 2018) [from Chiefs' SB Nation]:
He’s got elite arm talent, a [Brett] Favre or [Pat] Mahomes arm. Elite athlete for his size, like Carson Wentz. People talk about his accuracy, but his pass-protection was poor, and he had the worst talent around him of any of these guys.
As far as Vegas odds, Allen was the number two betting favorite, after Darnold, to go first overall throughout the draft process. Rosen was third and Mayfield a distant fourth, until word started to leak from the Browns just before the draft.
During the process, there were plenty of "Darnold vs Allen" articles, such as the one linked.
Who's number one? Sam Darnold or Josh Allen? - ( New Window )
Doesn't this thread compare Jones to a 2nd team All-Pro QB?
I keep hearing posters ask how Tom Brady was able to throw passes right into the Jugs machine.
Things happen.
Sorry, speedlines, a lot of reports indicated that Shurmur wanted Allen at #2 overall.
I guess that baby got flushed with the bathwater.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
LOL. Since you're seemingly stuck in 2018, you might as well post it.
Revisionist history maybe on BBI, not everywhere else. Allen got plenty of chatter in the sports media although seemed like he was being characterized as the "boom or bust" guy amongst the QBs in that draft.
Mostly recall predominate BBI sentiments back then arguing/debating between A) not picking a QB at #2 because we had Eli so the default should be Saquon; and B) if Getts did go with a QB then it should be between Darnold and Rosen.
There were absolutely many other threads and conversations on other players including Mayfield, Allen, Jackson and maybe 1-2 others. And of course trading out of the #2 pick was discussed as well.
If my memory serves me, also remember "cons" discussed on those other QBs: Mayfield issues were immaturity and size; Allen was about lack of accuracy and competition; and Jackson was simply not a NYG-type of QB.
As noted earlier, not sure why more love was not given to Allen and Jackson by the NY Giants, but it wasn't...
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I could post my thread from that February making a case for drafting Lamar Jackson, but I won't.
But hey we've got an overrated running back.
LOL. Since you're seemingly stuck in 2018, you might as well post it.
2018 matters a ton. The mistakes that started then shape the team now. We are all still stuck in 2018.
Absolutely. He was the bold move at #2. Sure, there would have been similar growing pains, but it would have been worth it. While I think there is still fat to trim from his game, Allen is a stud.
Look, it's been mentioned 1K times - Gettleman went the safe route choosing Barkley. And essentially admitted it.
If Barkley never rebounds to his rookie form, and Hernandez continues to look average (at best), the 2018 draft will live in infamy...
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
But, why are some of us ridiculed as “fans” or heretics or worse for pointing out that Jones has been lousy?
Jones first game against Tampa was impressive. Then he had that loss last year against Philly where I thought (for the first time since the Tampa game) that he flashed as a legit QB1. But aside from those games, I just remember Jones being unspectacular or injured or bad.
But maybe someone else can remind me of Jones’ big plays and big moments and game winning drives and smart reads and big throws in the places where it counted the most? For instance, what is Jones’ signature game so far? For that matter, what are the top three games? Aside from pure hope, what is it exactly that make Jones’ optimistic defenders so excited for his big evolution this season?
This is the root of the problem right here. Agree or disagree about what Jones is or will become, but when you start posting that people aren't fans of the team because they don't believe in a player, you are just showing your insecurity.
I am an Islander fan and I think Leo Komarov sucks balls. That doesn't mean I am no longer an Islander fan. Plenty of Ranger fans waxed poetic about how much Tanner Glass sucked. Did they all stop being Ranger fans, or did they just have eyes and brains.
Doubting Daniel Jones or Dave Gettleman says absolutely nothing about whether you are a good fan or not. It's stupidity at it's lowest.
Why is the prevailing opinion that the next game he plays well will be his first? It's kin of ridiculous that there's a narrative out there that he flat out sucks and has since day 1.
Then again - one blowhard keeps reiterating this, so apparently it takes hold.
My own prediction is Jones puts up a below-average/averageish year, and we are hoping to upgrade the position in next year's draft. But I wouldn't be stunned if Jones puts up a good year. I'd be stunned if he throws for 40 TDs and competes for the MVP.
There's a little too much certainty by the Jones pessimists IMO.
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
Last year I was hoping to see growth from Jones and instead I saw a regression. Yes the team around him sucked, it was a new system and there was no traditional training camp. All understood. But what troubled me most was not that he fumbled a lot or put up below average numbers. What bothered me most was that he often looked slow to make decisions or was completely unsure. Playing QB looked unnatural to him, despite doing it most of his life at a pretty high level.
I expect Jones will put up average numbers. I hope he puts up all-pro numbers. But wanting him to do that and believing he will are very different and don't make me a sad, bitter Eagle fan.
Unfortunately, and conveniently it seems, the overwhelming average to poor games get ignored.
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
According to some in the "vocal majority" around here, that would show improvement...
Quote:
signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
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In comment 15316837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
Actually the last Dallas game was in 2021, so...
Quote:
In comment 15316837 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
signal to show that chart!!
Even your chart adds up to 24 TD's there, Chief. Shows 5 games of 300+ yards and 3 games of 4+ TD's, Pal.
The continued take that Jones is absolute dogshit by showing that chart is one of the more foolish things posted here, yet you do it unashamed.
The fact that you do it at all is probably a topic in itself....
It also showed 9 games with a QB rating below the NFL average. It also showed a 3-10 record.
I can post his 2020 game log too. What do you think that would show?
Probably nothing regarding 2021, but again you seemingly like to live in the past. Just not too far back because it puts a damper on the narrative....
So 2020 isn't relevant to 2021, but citing 4 games in 2019 is? Do I have that right?
First of all, going back a year before Jones, Allen is really not relevant. The Giants were seemingly never interested in him because if it wasn't Barkley, by most accounts, it was Darnold. Plus, EVERY QB taken in the first round of that year had a significant enough reason not to bank your franchise on him.
Present day, Allen serves as a nice position to strive for where the player took that sought after year 3 leap in production. We can hope for something similar, but one player/situation has nothing to do with the other.
As for Jones himself, why can't most just agree to this: His rookie year was dotted with some outright impressive performances. Likewise, it was dotted with excessive fumbles and rookie mistakes. There was reason for optimism, almost to a man, after that season. However, last year, was just overwhelmingly bad. The season was really just dotted with downright bad to mediocre performances and out only big win came with our journeyman backup at the helm. Turnovers jumped, TDs shrank.
That is where the fork in the road is. Some, still cling to his rookie year for optimism. Some cling to an overall dismal 2020 for pessimism that this is the best we are going to get. Then another group, where I am, are on the fence and need to see this year. No group is right or wrong AT THIS POINT because there is so much we still don't know about Jones. But, let's not act like any one of those groups is crazy or genius.
Jones was not a conventional pick at #6. There are people in the media and the league who felt he had the talent to back and some who disagree. That is no different than the fan base. Regardless of which camp you fall into, this year is critical for Jones. That's that. Please stop debating it. Please stop posting an article about his work on his own with receivers as PROOF that he is good. Likewise please stop dismissing those types of pieces as pointless and he is bad. Those articles are puff pieces. Nothing more, nothing less. They are nice to read as a fan, but they PROVE nothing.
Which is why 2020 the questions were: can Jones stop turning the ball over and win some games. Unfortunately, the answer was yes to the first question, Jones got better protecting the ball. But he didn't win games. More to the point, he wasn't the reason the Giants won games. At his best, Jones was a game manager.
The most important stat for an NFL QB1 is wins and losses. TDs to INTs is probably next. The rest? You have to know the context of the game. Throwing for 400+ yards in a meaningless last game of the year against WFT isn't that impressive. Where are the big games and the big plays for Jones? Where are the games where Jones was the reason the Giants won? I don't think we've seen one of those. So, again, unless I'm forgetting a game somewhere, in that regard, yeah, his next big win will be his first.
Jones was not a conventional pick at #6. There are people in the media and the league who felt he had the talent to back and some who disagree. That is no different than the fan base. Regardless of which camp you fall into, this year is critical for Jones. That's that. Please stop debating it. Please stop posting an article about his work on his own with receivers as PROOF that he is good. Likewise please stop dismissing those types of pieces as pointless and he is bad. Those articles are puff pieces. Nothing more, nothing less. They are nice to read as a fan, but they PROVE nothing.
Three years without a single day over .500. Proven and dyed in the wool.
Hopefully this year is different, but there isn't much reason to believe it will be.
I am optimistic though. I think Gettleman, Jones, and Barkley aren't long for this team as Judge gets the job done in a competent manner.
To be fair, beating Dallas, granted they were without Prescott, the last game of the season when we were still alive for the NFCE was a fairly good effort.
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I don't think we've seen one of those. So, again, unless I'm forgetting a game somewhere, in that regard, yeah, his next big win will be his first.
To be fair, beating Dallas, granted they were without Prescott, the last game of the season when we were still alive for the NFCE was a fairly good effort.
That’s would qualify as a big win. But, I honestly don’t remember how Jones played in that game. Looking at the stats, he had a pick and a lost a fumble and threw two TDs. Another stat that jumped out at me was 0-7 on third down conversions. But, again, honestly don’t remember, was Jones really good in this game?
That’s solid.
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Is it always so much arguing around here? I don't care, just curious because it feels like there is some serious bad blood here.
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
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In comment 15316676 JuliusPepperwood said:
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Is it always so much arguing around here? I don't care, just curious because it feels like there is some serious bad blood here.
I have to admit, this might be one of my favorite posts of all time.
To answer your question, yes. You've got 2 extreme ends of the spectrum and the rest are the victims. Welcome to BBI.
Hey thanks! I came here for breaking news but the arguing is pretty compelling. So what are the extreme ends, it looks like people for and against Daniel Jones or is it more than that?
Daniel Jones, whether a hot dog is a sandwich, etc. The important things.