First Two Years
....................Daniel Jones ..... Josh Allen
Completion Pct....62.2................56.3
Pass YPG..........221.1...............184.4
TD/INT............35-22...............30-21
Passer Rating.....84.1................78.2
Per NFL Network
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I'm sure they will chime in here to reinforce why....
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
Your whole statement is messed up. It is absolutely a good comparison as far as their 1st two years go. The point being this is year and can we expect Jones to make that leap forward with better players around him. The point of the comparison was not to say they are the same it was to say Jones's numbers look better after the first two years so imagine if the talent around him (which is now improved and led the NFL Network discussion before turning to Jones specifically) plays like expected Jones could make an ALLEN like leap year 3.
Allen spent time at a JC and then at Wyoming. Jones spent three years with someone considered one of the better QB developers who already had two SB winning QB's on his resume. It would make sense that it would take him more time to reach his potential.
But Josh Allen's 2nd year was quite a bit better than Daniel Jones' 2nd year.
I'm therefore not so sure this comparison is very favorable to Jones... assuming you want to see a QB get better and not worse, that is.
And let me know if you see anything different between the two...
....................Daniel Jones ..... Josh Allen
Completion Pct....62.2................56.3
Pass YPG..........221.1...............184.4
TD/INT............35-22...............30-21
Passer Rating.....84.1................78.2
with rushing and fumble information
Yds/Gm (Pass+Rush)
Jones: 247.1
Allen: 225.2
Total TDs (P+R)/INTs + FUM
Jones: 38 / 51
Allen: 47 / 43
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
Not only that, but Jones' second year was a mess because of Covid, AND he had a new coaching staff and system.
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
But Josh Allen's 2nd year was quite a bit better than Daniel Jones' 2nd year.
I'm therefore not so sure this comparison is very favorable to Jones... assuming you want to see a QB get better and not worse, that is.
Except Jones' second year included a new offensive coaching staff and philosophy AND having to get used to it with Covid and no preseason. There is no way you can compare Jones's second year with Allen's second year.
Plus, Allen had Josh Brown and Cole Beasley as his top two receivers in 2019. How many here would take Shepard and Slayton over them?
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
Geno Smith had 12 TDs and 21 interceptions his first year, with a rating of 66. His second year he had 13 TDs and 13 INTs (so 25 TDs and 34 INTs in two years) with a rating of 77. His completion percentages were 55 and 60. His yards per game were 190 and 180.
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Opinion: NFL really means Not For Long, so rookies, here's advice on reality of league Jarrett Bell USA TODAY - May 4, 2019 - ( New Window )
It is also about the mental gymnastics that some will go through to prove that they know better than everyone else (including those that do this for a living) in the room.
DJ may or may not develop into a franchise QB, but the guys that know the most, believe that he will.
If you think Josh Allen and Daniel Jones are comparable, you're as dumb as gidie.
If you think Josh Allen and Daniel Jones are comparable, you're as dumb as gidie.
Go Panic rides again
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I love Jones but comapring the two players at this time is a big waste of time. Allen made a big jump and is now one of the best QBs in the league. I hope Jones does the same.
yes - because Buffalo got him a real receiver
The Bill's GM was on the ESPN morning show back in January i believe. When KJZ credited Diggs with the leap Allen, he replied that the biggest thing was actually upgrading the OL in Allen's 2nd year because "weapons don't matter if the QB isn't upright"
Just watch Buffalo and see how much time Allen has to work with. Give Jones a really good line and he will produce like Josh Allen has.
Daniel Jones Duke 53 (Left) 54 (Right)
2018
Josh Allen Wyoming 62 (Left) 62 (Right)
(all-time combine record)
The long lofted pass, which Jones can throw, is not the test of the laser arm. Allen has it; Jones does not.
Jones may still be a success, and we can all hope, but it is unfair to him to set an expectation that he is going to be Josh Allen.
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On the other those numbers, while similar, dont mean a whole lot other than to show that a young QB with potential is capable of improving. But thats common knowledge. But the similarity doesnt mean Jones *will* see a similar 3rd year jump. The road is littered with guys who flashed but ultimately fizzled. Im sure there are plenty of guys who never panned out who had similar rookie/soph seasons. Id be willing to bet Geno Smith had comparable numbers.
And Im not a Jones hater, I have high hopes and think he can turn the corner. But citing Josh Allen doesnt mean a whole lot. Youre torturing numbers bSed on his 3rd year.
Geno Smith had 12 TDs and 21 interceptions his first year, with a rating of 66. His second year he had 13 TDs and 13 INTs (so 25 TDs and 34 INTs in two years) with a rating of 77. His completion percentages were 55 and 60. His yards per game were 190 and 180.
So below Allen and Jones but in the same neighborhood (rushing ability notwithstanding)
930 yards, 17 TDs.
Yes, 17 TDs. Almost as much rushing TDs in his second year (9) as Jones had throwing.
Oh, and Allen plays in Buffalo.
Barkley or Allen?
It is also about the mental gymnastics that some will go through to prove that they know better than everyone else (including those that do this for a living) in the room.
DJ may or may not develop into a franchise QB, but the guys that know the most, believe that he will.
Are these really mental gymnastics to you?
They shouldn't be...
In year 3 Allen became one of the better QBs in the league. In year 3, Darnold continued to be a below average QB.
Both of those comparisons are equally as informative as to what Jones will be in year 3. He could become Allen. He could become Darnold. Most likely he will fall somewhere in between. But the progression of the career of Allen and Darnold have NOTHING to do with the career progression of Daniel Jones.
So what we learned here is...nothing.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Haha!
Barkley or Allen?
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Josh Allen had an improved year in his 2nd year and the Bills were a playoff team. There were many situations where he made the plays he needed to at the right times to win games. Cherry picking stats and ignoring the fact that the Giants best win last year was with Jones on the bench is just not an accurate representation of how the players played at all.
Jones just isn't the most promising player right now. He is not someone that looks worthy of the 6th pick, that does not look like a very sound decision and it was the most important one by this current front office. No amount of stat cherry picking or articles on romantic steak dinners is going to change that, despite the seemingly very strong desire to do that.
Yes he could absolutely turn the corner this year, 100% and show that he was worthy of where he was drafted. But there is not any kind of data trend to support that, not one. He regressed and he's never shown he can make plays and take care of the ball. We don't know if he is capable of even being a consistent playmaker outside of having Shurmur as a coach, which that is one of the strengths of Shurmur.
Players diverge from their growth trajectory all the time but that doesn't make it even remotely sound analysis to project a divergence to a player without showing some tangible reason for that to change or an inflection point in the data. Hard work and taking your job seriously isn't valid, there are countless tireless workers that have succeeded and failed in the NFL. The need to act like it's important to draft "good" people and that's the Giants secret sauce is actually getting quite annoying when you handle the Josh Brown situation the way you did. When you extend Beckham then trash him despite him being the same guy he always was. Landon Collins being a future leader one year and a bad guy the next. Deandre Baker. Toney is not a clean prospect in that regard, it remains to be seen how that goes.
The Giants want to wield this moral superiority only when it suits them. When people underperform, if it's Jones, or Mara or whoever everyone wants to talk about what good people they are. Being a "good" person doesn't excuse being bad at your job, it just doesn't.
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Unfortunately our so called QB of the future plays much more like a back-up QB than a starter right now.
Hopefully he starts to sniff the ability and production of the MVP caliber Allen. Because right now it's not even close.
Josh Allen had an improved year in his 2nd year and the Bills were a playoff team. There were many situations where he made the plays he needed to at the right times to win games. Cherry picking stats and ignoring the fact that the Giants best win last year was with Jones on the bench is just not an accurate representation of how the players played at all.
Jones just isn't the most promising player right now. He is not someone that looks worthy of the 6th pick, that does not look like a very sound decision and it was the most important one by this current front office. No amount of stat cherry picking or articles on romantic steak dinners is going to change that, despite the seemingly very strong desire to do that.
Yes he could absolutely turn the corner this year, 100% and show that he was worthy of where he was drafted. But there is not any kind of data trend to support that, not one. He regressed and he's never shown he can make plays and take care of the ball. We don't know if he is capable of even being a consistent playmaker outside of having Shurmur as a coach, which that is one of the strengths of Shurmur.
Players diverge from their growth trajectory all the time but that doesn't make it even remotely sound analysis to project a divergence to a player without showing some tangible reason for that to change or an inflection point in the data. Hard work and taking your job seriously isn't valid, there are countless tireless workers that have succeeded and failed in the NFL. The need to act like it's important to draft "good" people and that's the Giants secret sauce is actually getting quite annoying when you handle the Josh Brown situation the way you did. When you extend Beckham then trash him despite him being the same guy he always was. Landon Collins being a future leader one year and a bad guy the next. Deandre Baker. Toney is not a clean prospect in that regard, it remains to be seen how that goes.
The Giants want to wield this moral superiority only when it suits them. When people underperform, if it's Jones, or Mara or whoever everyone wants to talk about what good people they are. Being a "good" person doesn't excuse being bad at your job, it just doesn't.
yeah -- and with more frightening regularity there are regular threads bashing Jones and the Giants and calling for his immediate removal
Bal-ance
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Had we played our cards right in '18, we could have grabbed Allen at #2 and Chubb at #34.
How much better would we all feel about that now?
Quote:
Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Because its summer and football hasn't really started, we can talk about these things...
I agree the Giants were never taking Allen. We know enough from info that has leaked that the player order was Saquon Barkley and then Bradley Chubb. The only other considered thought was a trade down but seems like that was dismissed with little interest once Barkley didn't going #1 and DG heard the offers.
So the real question is why Allen wasn't a consideration?
Was it as simple as the Giants weren't ever going with QB because they were still in bed with Eli so their due diligence on the QBs that year was superficial and more of a standard exercise versus true interest of finding their next franchise guy?
Or did they actually do heavy scouting on all the QBs that year and come to conclusion nobody was really worth it?
There always is some rumors that say Darnold was the top QB on their board but obviously he could only have only been 3rd best (behind Barkley and Chubb). So why wasn't Allen a real consideration and right up their with Darnold in their scouting?
And I thought I heard or read where Shurmur was very impressed and intrigued with Allen.
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Now! I wanted a quarterback then , albeit Darnold, but I would have been excited about Allen too. But Giants were never taking Allen.
Had we played our cards right in '18, we could have grabbed Allen at #2 and Chubb at #34.
How much better would we all feel about that now?
How much better would we be if we took Fred Warner and Orlando Brown in round 3 instead of Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill?
What if we never traded up in 2019 for DeAndre Baker and just stayed put and took Elgton Jenkins?
Please -- haven't you been reading Go Panic's almost daily assault
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In comment 15315381 bw in dc said:
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Who would you rather have right now.
Barkley or Allen?
We don't need a backup QB that badly.
Unfortunately our so called QB of the future plays much more like a back-up QB than a starter right now.
Hopefully he starts to sniff the ability and production of the MVP caliber Allen. Because right now it's not even close.
Fresh take. Thanks!
There are almost daily threads acting like Jones was a much better pick than he has shown to be, or accomplished more than he has. Or we should be more excited about him because he takes his job seriously.
And yeah, that needs to be balanced out because like many I'm concerned that this propaganda will result in DJ getting more of a chance than his play merits.
There is this idea that people want to push a negative agenda and there is just far less evidence of that. Certainly in threads being started pushing those ideas. It's not really an equal amount of jabs on both sides.
It's one side being like you should really all be more excited about Jones!!! And the other side being like, I'd love to be excited but he just needs to prove more on the field. And that's really what it comes down to he needs to produce no amount of puff pieces or data torturing is going to change that