Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
Don’t confuse neglect combined with luck as brilliance
It is getting beyond annoying to see the same bullshit - what is basically a bunch of "yeah, buts" - they drafted 3 the year before. There were only 6 picks this. They needed ERs, DB and WRs too.
We all want a good line. And IMHO, talent is one thing but coaching is every bit as important, if not more. Yea, Yea, Yea...it is the latest what have they done lately.
RE: RE: Putting it all on development and Rob Sale
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Getting OL in FA is probably the most overpriced position in the NFL as far as money to talent goes. The worst position group to be bad at in NFL is OL, so teams get very desperate. The draft is after FA and this team desperately needed help on outside more than it did along the OL. What we rolled out there last year was absolutely putrid and hamstrung the offense the second half of the year, not the OL.
Then Adoree became available, which once again, 2nd corner was a much bigger need. If he didn't, I wouldn't be surprised if we went for some OL help. Drafting OL and developing them is a much better proposition, just didn't happen that way this year. I have nothing to base this on, but I think if AVG dropped a little further, we have tried for a small trade up. Too hard to turn that extra first down though to sit there and take him up at 11 though.
could not have been addressed in one draft and free agency period. We need to trust that last years rookies will take a step up too. The front office seems to believe that is happening. Hopefully Lemieux's injury is minor.
RE: RE: Putting it all on development and Rob Sale
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
They drafted 3 offensive linemen last year. They signed 2 free agents this year in Fulton and Harrison. They brought back solder and brought in Brett heggie as an udfa. They have added players in the last 2 years and spent premium picks.
There is still options on this team depending on the injury to lemieux. Fulton has starting experience. Harrison might get a look. Maybe heggie or Harrison can play center and gates can move to guard if needed.
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Well, for one thing, free agency came before the draft, so they might have chosen to do little in the way of FA OL, with the hope that they could tap a decent OL prospect in the draft. Best laid plans and all that. Clearly, though, they put a higher priority on WR, ER, and CB, as well as stockpiling draft capital for the future.
I wouldn't have gone that route. I would have drafted Slater or Vera-Tucker at 11 (even if Smith was still on the board), but that's just me.
So, you could say they gambled on what they already had at OL being enough. I look at it as taking a calculated risk...semantics, I know.
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
There were few, if any, times during the 2021 NFL Draft where OL was BPA. Would you have given up Ojulari and a 2022 draft pick for Eichenberg? Maybe we could have drafted Trey Smith in Round 6, but who knows about his meds and our coaching staff would have inside knowledge about whether he would be a fit for what we want to do.
Give it a couple of weeks. Getts can then bring back Kelvin Benjamin
have said it's a knee. But there may not be more details until Judge talks tomorrow.
Quote:
- Near the end of practice, projected starting left guard Shane Lemieux was carted off the field with what the Giants are calling a knee injury. Joe Judge won’t speak until before Friday’s practice, so there are no updates on Lemieux’s health as of yet.
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Getting OL in FA is probably the most overpriced position in the NFL as far as money to talent goes. The worst position group to be bad at in NFL is OL, so teams get very desperate. The draft is after FA and this team desperately needed help on outside more than it did along the OL. What we rolled out there last year was absolutely putrid and hamstrung the offense the second half of the year, not the OL.
Then Adoree became available, which once again, 2nd corner was a much bigger need. If he didn't, I wouldn't be surprised if we went for some OL help. Drafting OL and developing them is a much better proposition, just didn't happen that way this year. I have nothing to base this on, but I think if AVG dropped a little further, we have tried for a small trade up. Too hard to turn that extra first down though to sit there and take him up at 11 though.
This is an excellent point. You need to draft OL prospects.
Since taking over, how many OL prospects has DG chosen in the first two rounds? First three? First four?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Putting it all on development and Rob Sale
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
Don’t confuse neglect combined with luck as brilliance
It is getting beyond annoying to see the same bullshit - what is basically a bunch of "yeah, buts" - they drafted 3 the year before. There were only 6 picks this. They needed ERs, DB and WRs too.
We all want a good line. And IMHO, talent is one thing but coaching is every bit as important, if not more. Yea, Yea, Yea...it is the latest what have they done lately.
How many OL were chosen in the first three rounds during DG's entire tenure to date?
This is HAWG MAWLLIE DAVE, mind you. OL should never be an afterthought here.
This would be a hindrance for his development and muddy the waters for a real evaluation this year if it were serious. This isn't an injury that really should cause us to second guess any offseason moves, more status quo in that it hurts our depth and we pivot from one type of question mark (young unproven late round pick) to another (journeyman).
I hope it isn't serious, he's got a shot to cement place in the league this year and it would really be a shame if an injury derailed that for him.
1 - lemiuex was not good last year and was already considered by many to be a or THE weak link on the line. i get it, he's a promising young player and nobody wanted him to get hurt, but this isn't like losing thomas, gates, or peart
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
1 - lemiuex was not good last year and was already considered by many to be a or THE weak link on the line. i get it, he's a promising young player and nobody wanted him to get hurt, but this isn't like losing thomas, gates, or peart
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
Like losing Peart?
Which one is more established?
RE: FWIW, the beats are tweeting that it's a knee issue
1 - lemiuex was not good last year and was already considered by many to be a or THE weak link on the line. i get it, he's a promising young player and nobody wanted him to get hurt, but this isn't like losing thomas, gates, or peart
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
Yeh I'd be more worried about losing one of the tackles for a long stretch or Gates. That has potential for disaster, especially if Solder is washed up. Almost all teams need to roll the dice at some position going into a season outside of a few. Hopefully next year we can add some interior line talent and be one of those teams.
This has the same feel that that had about 10 years ago. Ther is not a single offensive lineman on the roster that does not have questions and most have serious questions. For the life of me, I don’t understand how the evaluation of Daniel Jones can be made when he might have a pretty bad OL. Nobody knows about the severity of this injury and it might turn out to be nothing. But, if’s bad karma when this kind of stuff happens in no contact drills. Last, once Golloday was signed, the WR position was in better shape than the OL group, possibly way better when you add in Barkley and Rudolph as receivers. I don’t watch much college football but it’s hard for me to believe that Toney was the best player available at 20 and that there were no offensive lineman available who could have stepped right in and made this team better.
This has the same feel that that had about 10 years ago. Ther is not a single offensive lineman on the roster that does not have questions and most have serious questions. For the life of me, I don’t understand how the evaluation of Daniel Jones can be made when he might have a pretty bad OL. Nobody knows about the severity of this injury and it might turn out to be nothing. But, if’s bad karma when this kind of stuff happens in no contact drills. Last, once Golloday was signed, the WR position was in better shape than the OL group, possibly way better when you add in Barkley and Rudolph as receivers. I don’t watch much college football but it’s hard for me to believe that Toney was the best player available at 20 and that there were no offensive lineman available who could have stepped right in and made this team better.
saying the WR group was in better shape than the OL is irrelevant. you are not just drafting by the biggest need.
and the WR group was not in good shape. shep is ALWAYS hurt, mediocre when healthy, and in all likelihood in the final year with the team. slayton was good as a rookie and bad last year. the WR group was not in good shape and toney provided immediate and long-term value. i'm not sold on toney the player and preferred moore over him, but ripping them for taking a WR is not completely fair
RE: RE: I wonder if people get injured on other teams
I wonder if other teams avoid reinforcing the weakest part of their roster?
How many teams had as many holes on their roster? I would say ER, 2nd CB and WR were just as devoid of talent as OLine...
They drafted 3 guys the year before. They had weakness at other areas too. Like Zeke said, you cannot fix them all in one year. FA was LW, Golladay and Jackson and a few lesser players including OL.
This has the same feel that that had about 10 years ago. Ther is not a single offensive lineman on the roster that does not have questions and most have serious questions. For the life of me, I don’t understand how the evaluation of Daniel Jones can be made when he might have a pretty bad OL. Nobody knows about the severity of this injury and it might turn out to be nothing. But, if’s bad karma when this kind of stuff happens in no contact drills. Last, once Golloday was signed, the WR position was in better shape than the OL group, possibly way better when you add in Barkley and Rudolph as receivers. I don’t watch much college football but it’s hard for me to believe that Toney was the best player available at 20 and that there were no offensive lineman available who could have stepped right in and made this team better.
I've been critical of the OL but it would have been a reach for any of the OL at 20. I think AVT was the target and the Jets moved up for him. That's the risk in trading down but one I'm happy they took since it means a potential top 10 pick. They could have traded down there again I guess and grabbed whoever was their R2 target(s). That should have been considered but it's impossible to say if that was even on the table for them. The 2nd round probably had a guy that could step in and improve the unit but would you trade that for Ojulari + a 3rd? I wouldn't. So after that it was likely more of the same in terms of improving the starting unit.
I think cutting of Zeitler combined with the Rudolph signing are where I see the potential mistake. The money given to Rudolph could have gone to a starting OL on a 1-2 year prove it deal, like Turner. It's not apples to apples in terms of structure, but Zeitler signed with Ravens for marginally more than what we signed Rudolph for.
I wonder if other teams avoid reinforcing the weakest part of their roster?
How many teams had as many holes on their roster? I would say ER, 2nd CB and WR were just as devoid of talent as OLine...
They drafted 3 guys the year before. They had weakness at other areas too. Like Zeke said, you cannot fix them all in one year. FA was LW, Golladay and Jackson and a few lesser players including OL.
Are you going to plant your flag and say that you can make a shitty OL work with good skill position players more easily than making shitty skill position players work with a good OL?
You really want to have that be your POV on this?
Hopefully Lemieux can recover quickly, but it isn’t time to panic yet.
Lemieux was looked on as the probable starter only because he ended the season at LG. He really didn’t beat out Hernandez. Fulton has a lot of starting experience and he endured the Houston chaos for 4 years. With the right o-line coach (hopefully Sale), it only takes one or two of these guys to step up to the task.
The other guys are bottom of the roster guys but one of them could step up when given a chance. Be concerned but don’t panic YET.
Going into this offseason the Giants were in position to make moves that would have them contend for playoffs and division crown. They were two years away from championship contention.
They needed to address the following
LB/ER
CB
WR
OL
RB - reserve
They were able to do all but OL in 2021 and there is a chance they will be OK there.
They are well positioned to address OL next year as they will have no other glaring holes (other than possibly edge) and could easily draft 3 OL in rounds 1-3 where they have 5 picks.
That would position them well for a serious 2022 run and very well for 2023.
This presumes that DJ works out and no career ending injuries of key players.
Going into this offseason the Giants were in position to make moves that would have them contend for playoffs and division crown. They were two years away from championship contention.
They needed to address the following
LB/ER
CB
WR
OL
RB - reserve
They were able to do all but OL in 2021 and there is a chance they will be OK there.
They are well positioned to address OL next year as they will have no other glaring holes (other than possibly edge) and could easily draft 3 OL in rounds 1-3 where they have 5 picks.
That would position them well for a serious 2022 run and very well for 2023.
This presumes that DJ works out and no career ending injuries of key players.
they will have holes next year to fill excluding the OL. i'm not saying they should be filled as bigger priorities than the OL but they will have other holes and it's not as simple as to say most other things are fixed and they can just focus on the OL
- S (if peppers leaves)
- TE is going to be a massive hole (rudolph could be a cap casualty or completely cooked and EE will not be re-signed)
- WR is slayton plays like he did last year
- QB is a possibility
- CB and MLB are bradbury and martinez would be entering into the final years of their deals, both can be re-signed but they may want to draft replacements for cap purposes
- DL to replace hill who will likely walk
I would love to hear from an objective Giants fan who follows the college game if Toney was the best player available at 20. From what I’ve read, he wasn’t and that tells me the Giants drafted for need or in this case, in my opinion, perceived need. I don’t who they could have drafted at 20 who would have given Jones a better chance to show what he can do and make the Giants a better team but I don’t think that player was Toney. It’s interesting that the most critical criticisms of taking Toney are around the thought that there were better WRs who were available which is the definition of drafting for need. And, in my opinion, if you drafted for need, it is and was the OL. Sale may turn out to be a great assistant coach but there aren’t enough hours in the day to fix each player on the line and that includes using all the consultants.
of the injury. If it is long term they have a lot of time to work someone else in or make a move if necessary. If he is out for the year than will be able find someone with at least the same production imv.
One thing the beats already said is Jones is getting the ball out quick. The OL will be better with the skill positions added (and Rudolph) provided Jones takes a big step. The skill guys last year needed more time to get open.
I also believe we are going to see significant scheme changes. People mention Kitchens but I think Sale has had big imput as well.
I would love to hear from an objective Giants fan who follows the college game if Toney was the best player available at 20. From what I’ve read, he wasn’t and that tells me the Giants drafted for need or in this case, in my opinion, perceived need. I don’t who they could have drafted at 20 who would have given Jones a better chance to show what he can do and make the Giants a better team but I don’t think that player was Toney. It’s interesting that the most critical criticisms of taking Toney are around the thought that there were better WRs who were available which is the definition of drafting for need. And, in my opinion, if you drafted for need, it is and was the OL. Sale may turn out to be a great assistant coach but there aren’t enough hours in the day to fix each player on the line and that includes using all the consultants.
i don't mean for this to come off douchey but look up the draft results. there was 1, 1 offensive lineman picked between picks 21 - 32 and that was darrisaw, who would have competed against Peart for a starting spot
RE: RE: RE: RE: I wonder if people get injured on other teams
Are you going to plant your flag and say that you can make a shitty OL work with good skill position players more easily than making shitty skill position players work with a good OL?
You really want to have that be your POV on this?
Green Bay did that for years, so it can be done as an example. Not what I said though, was it.
You love making statements for people and expressing your opinion as theirs if it can fit your narrative.
My position, and no one gives a fuck about my opinion or yours as a deciding factor on how the team is built, is that better coaches produce better players. Aside from the Cowboys, most teams have at least 3 JAGS on their lines. The good ones have maybe two very good or better players.
It all goes back to, they drafted 3 players in 2020 and moved another guy from RG/RT to center who played pretty well to very well by year end. They had other holes to fill. That is where they chose to spend their time and money because that was where they probably felt the most bang for the buck is - you disagree.
If you feel that should have paid high money for some meh OL in FA, that is fine and it rarely pays off. But Judge and DG thought spending money to finish off DB, DL and WR was more important.
They had holes at the positions I pointed out. Yes, OL could use help. They obviously felt that better coaching was going to get more accomplished. Also, there will be vets cut loose later in camp that they can pick up for a lot less money. But then again you knew that.
Elbows better than knees and ankles
Or, It could be brilliant.
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
Don’t confuse neglect combined with luck as brilliance
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
One of the most succinct post ever👍
Quote:
In comment 15316325 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
Don’t confuse neglect combined with luck as brilliance
It is getting beyond annoying to see the same bullshit - what is basically a bunch of "yeah, buts" - they drafted 3 the year before. There were only 6 picks this. They needed ERs, DB and WRs too.
We all want a good line. And IMHO, talent is one thing but coaching is every bit as important, if not more. Yea, Yea, Yea...it is the latest what have they done lately.
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Getting OL in FA is probably the most overpriced position in the NFL as far as money to talent goes. The worst position group to be bad at in NFL is OL, so teams get very desperate. The draft is after FA and this team desperately needed help on outside more than it did along the OL. What we rolled out there last year was absolutely putrid and hamstrung the offense the second half of the year, not the OL.
Then Adoree became available, which once again, 2nd corner was a much bigger need. If he didn't, I wouldn't be surprised if we went for some OL help. Drafting OL and developing them is a much better proposition, just didn't happen that way this year. I have nothing to base this on, but I think if AVG dropped a little further, we have tried for a small trade up. Too hard to turn that extra first down though to sit there and take him up at 11 though.
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
They drafted 3 offensive linemen last year. They signed 2 free agents this year in Fulton and Harrison. They brought back solder and brought in Brett heggie as an udfa. They have added players in the last 2 years and spent premium picks.
There is still options on this team depending on the injury to lemieux. Fulton has starting experience. Harrison might get a look. Maybe heggie or Harrison can play center and gates can move to guard if needed.
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Well, for one thing, free agency came before the draft, so they might have chosen to do little in the way of FA OL, with the hope that they could tap a decent OL prospect in the draft. Best laid plans and all that. Clearly, though, they put a higher priority on WR, ER, and CB, as well as stockpiling draft capital for the future.
I wouldn't have gone that route. I would have drafted Slater or Vera-Tucker at 11 (even if Smith was still on the board), but that's just me.
So, you could say they gambled on what they already had at OL being enough. I look at it as taking a calculated risk...semantics, I know.
There were few, if any, times during the 2021 NFL Draft where OL was BPA. Would you have given up Ojulari and a 2022 draft pick for Eichenberg? Maybe we could have drafted Trey Smith in Round 6, but who knows about his meds and our coaching staff would have inside knowledge about whether he would be a fit for what we want to do.
Ooof. Good thing we upgraded and added more depth to the OL in the offseason. Hope it's not serious.
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
According to the OP, they just replaced SL with Raanan. Hard to see how that would be brilliant.
I wonder if other teams avoid reinforcing the weakest part of their roster?
Quote:
In comment 15316325 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
It's the gamble of the year for sure.
If you believe Mr. Hog Mollie, he was looking at OLs in the draft but the ones he targeted kept getting plucked away before we picked. And apparently in the second and third rounds. Which begs the question - if you had OLs on your radar high in the draft, and you missed out, why didn't you look for more solutions in free agency?
Getting OL in FA is probably the most overpriced position in the NFL as far as money to talent goes. The worst position group to be bad at in NFL is OL, so teams get very desperate. The draft is after FA and this team desperately needed help on outside more than it did along the OL. What we rolled out there last year was absolutely putrid and hamstrung the offense the second half of the year, not the OL.
Then Adoree became available, which once again, 2nd corner was a much bigger need. If he didn't, I wouldn't be surprised if we went for some OL help. Drafting OL and developing them is a much better proposition, just didn't happen that way this year. I have nothing to base this on, but I think if AVG dropped a little further, we have tried for a small trade up. Too hard to turn that extra first down though to sit there and take him up at 11 though.
This is an excellent point. You need to draft OL prospects.
Since taking over, how many OL prospects has DG chosen in the first two rounds? First three? First four?
Quote:
In comment 15316332 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15316325 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
Drafting zero OL and dumpster diving for free agents could prove to be a bad strategy
Or, It could be brilliant.
Don’t confuse neglect combined with luck as brilliance
It is getting beyond annoying to see the same bullshit - what is basically a bunch of "yeah, buts" - they drafted 3 the year before. There were only 6 picks this. They needed ERs, DB and WRs too.
We all want a good line. And IMHO, talent is one thing but coaching is every bit as important, if not more. Yea, Yea, Yea...it is the latest what have they done lately.
How many OL were chosen in the first three rounds during DG's entire tenure to date?
This is HAWG MAWLLIE DAVE, mind you. OL should never be an afterthought here.
I hope it isn't serious, he's got a shot to cement place in the league this year and it would really be a shame if an injury derailed that for him.
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
Like losing Peart?
Which one is more established?
Can't trust Raanan. OP says Raanan went in at LG.
2 - i have repeatedly ripped their offseasons for not addressing the line properly and you could have made the case they should have used the money they spent on adoree on an OL. but adoree is young and was a huge position of need too. and nobody here really disliked their draft. they had a ton of holes and drafted at positions of need and got great value throughout while picking up extra picks next year. it is unfair to criticize the front office for this offseason in my view
3 - injuries happen across the league. some guys are going to get hurt in camp. next man up. losing shane lemiuex should not derail the season.
Yeh I'd be more worried about losing one of the tackles for a long stretch or Gates. That has potential for disaster, especially if Solder is washed up. Almost all teams need to roll the dice at some position going into a season outside of a few. Hopefully next year we can add some interior line talent and be one of those teams.
saying the WR group was in better shape than the OL is irrelevant. you are not just drafting by the biggest need.
and the WR group was not in good shape. shep is ALWAYS hurt, mediocre when healthy, and in all likelihood in the final year with the team. slayton was good as a rookie and bad last year. the WR group was not in good shape and toney provided immediate and long-term value. i'm not sold on toney the player and preferred moore over him, but ripping them for taking a WR is not completely fair
Quote:
?
I wonder if other teams avoid reinforcing the weakest part of their roster?
How many teams had as many holes on their roster? I would say ER, 2nd CB and WR were just as devoid of talent as OLine...
They drafted 3 guys the year before. They had weakness at other areas too. Like Zeke said, you cannot fix them all in one year. FA was LW, Golladay and Jackson and a few lesser players including OL.
I've been critical of the OL but it would have been a reach for any of the OL at 20. I think AVT was the target and the Jets moved up for him. That's the risk in trading down but one I'm happy they took since it means a potential top 10 pick. They could have traded down there again I guess and grabbed whoever was their R2 target(s). That should have been considered but it's impossible to say if that was even on the table for them. The 2nd round probably had a guy that could step in and improve the unit but would you trade that for Ojulari + a 3rd? I wouldn't. So after that it was likely more of the same in terms of improving the starting unit.
I think cutting of Zeitler combined with the Rudolph signing are where I see the potential mistake. The money given to Rudolph could have gone to a starting OL on a 1-2 year prove it deal, like Turner. It's not apples to apples in terms of structure, but Zeitler signed with Ravens for marginally more than what we signed Rudolph for.
Reports on Turner out of Steeler camp have not been good. He's also been terrible the last couple of seasons. I'm not sure Turner solves anything.
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In comment 15316423 Bill L said:
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I wonder if other teams avoid reinforcing the weakest part of their roster?
How many teams had as many holes on their roster? I would say ER, 2nd CB and WR were just as devoid of talent as OLine...
They drafted 3 guys the year before. They had weakness at other areas too. Like Zeke said, you cannot fix them all in one year. FA was LW, Golladay and Jackson and a few lesser players including OL.
Are you going to plant your flag and say that you can make a shitty OL work with good skill position players more easily than making shitty skill position players work with a good OL?
You really want to have that be your POV on this?
The other guys are bottom of the roster guys but one of them could step up when given a chance. Be concerned but don’t panic YET.
They needed to address the following
LB/ER
CB
WR
OL
RB - reserve
They were able to do all but OL in 2021 and there is a chance they will be OK there.
They are well positioned to address OL next year as they will have no other glaring holes (other than possibly edge) and could easily draft 3 OL in rounds 1-3 where they have 5 picks.
That would position them well for a serious 2022 run and very well for 2023.
This presumes that DJ works out and no career ending injuries of key players.
They needed to address the following
LB/ER
CB
WR
OL
RB - reserve
They were able to do all but OL in 2021 and there is a chance they will be OK there.
They are well positioned to address OL next year as they will have no other glaring holes (other than possibly edge) and could easily draft 3 OL in rounds 1-3 where they have 5 picks.
That would position them well for a serious 2022 run and very well for 2023.
This presumes that DJ works out and no career ending injuries of key players.
they will have holes next year to fill excluding the OL. i'm not saying they should be filled as bigger priorities than the OL but they will have other holes and it's not as simple as to say most other things are fixed and they can just focus on the OL
- S (if peppers leaves)
- TE is going to be a massive hole (rudolph could be a cap casualty or completely cooked and EE will not be re-signed)
- WR is slayton plays like he did last year
- QB is a possibility
- CB and MLB are bradbury and martinez would be entering into the final years of their deals, both can be re-signed but they may want to draft replacements for cap purposes
- DL to replace hill who will likely walk
One thing the beats already said is Jones is getting the ball out quick. The OL will be better with the skill positions added (and Rudolph) provided Jones takes a big step. The skill guys last year needed more time to get open.
I also believe we are going to see significant scheme changes. People mention Kitchens but I think Sale has had big imput as well.
i don't mean for this to come off douchey but look up the draft results. there was 1, 1 offensive lineman picked between picks 21 - 32 and that was darrisaw, who would have competed against Peart for a starting spot
Are you going to plant your flag and say that you can make a shitty OL work with good skill position players more easily than making shitty skill position players work with a good OL?
You really want to have that be your POV on this?
Green Bay did that for years, so it can be done as an example. Not what I said though, was it.
You love making statements for people and expressing your opinion as theirs if it can fit your narrative.
My position, and no one gives a fuck about my opinion or yours as a deciding factor on how the team is built, is that better coaches produce better players. Aside from the Cowboys, most teams have at least 3 JAGS on their lines. The good ones have maybe two very good or better players.
It all goes back to, they drafted 3 players in 2020 and moved another guy from RG/RT to center who played pretty well to very well by year end. They had other holes to fill. That is where they chose to spend their time and money because that was where they probably felt the most bang for the buck is - you disagree.
If you feel that should have paid high money for some meh OL in FA, that is fine and it rarely pays off. But Judge and DG thought spending money to finish off DB, DL and WR was more important.
They had holes at the positions I pointed out. Yes, OL could use help. They obviously felt that better coaching was going to get more accomplished. Also, there will be vets cut loose later in camp that they can pick up for a lot less money. But then again you knew that.