I would love to hear from an objective Giants fan who follows the college game if Toney was the best player available at 20. From what I’ve read, he wasn’t and that tells me the Giants drafted for need or in this case, in my opinion, perceived need. I don’t who they could have drafted at 20 who would have given Jones a better chance to show what he can do and make the Giants a better team but I don’t think that player was Toney. It’s interesting that the most critical criticisms of taking Toney are around the thought that there were better WRs who were available which is the definition of drafting for need. And, in my opinion, if you drafted for need, it is and was the OL. Sale may turn out to be a great assistant coach but there aren’t enough hours in the day to fix each player on the line and that includes using all the consultants.
There was no clear consensus BPA at 20, it was a pretty flat range. However there was a drop off at OL after AVT/Darrisaw, they were in a deadzone at that position. Toney was going to get picked in the first round, the Jags and Ravens would have taken him. So he went in a range he was supposed to go in, probably the high end of that range but a range he was projected to go (bottom 1/top 2). I have no idea if was THE BPA for the Giants but he was BPA at a position of need which is how teams pick.
I'm on the record of not liking the pick BTW, I preferred Moore if they went WR and was on board with Paye at that spot.
I would love to hear from an objective Giants fan who follows the college game if Toney was the best player available at 20. From what I’ve read, he wasn’t and that tells me the Giants drafted for need or in this case, in my opinion, perceived need. I don’t who they could have drafted at 20 who would have given Jones a better chance to show what he can do and make the Giants a better team but I don’t think that player was Toney. It’s interesting that the most critical criticisms of taking Toney are around the thought that there were better WRs who were available which is the definition of drafting for need. And, in my opinion, if you drafted for need, it is and was the OL. Sale may turn out to be a great assistant coach but there aren’t enough hours in the day to fix each player on the line and that includes using all the consultants.
DG pretty much admitted after the draft that once the Eagles jumped us for Devonta Smith, we were set to draft Vera-Tucker. Then the Bears offered us the trade...so we basically sacrificed an immediate OL upgrade for really good draft picks for next year.
I think any reasonable fan would admit the Giants still left the cupboard pretty bare on the OL. Hope Thomas proves to be the guy at LT, and the rest stay healthy and outperform expectations. Lemieux missing any meaningful time wouldn't be a great start
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
I think we've all learned enough about how the Giants work
over the past 4-5 years to know that Gettleman has an important voice in all personnel decisions but he has hardly the only one. The owners, the coaches, the assistant GM, the scouts are all very involved in what Kevin Abrams calls team building.
I do dispute it's a very vocal minority that has lost patience and faith with the current GM. I think a large majority of the fan base would like to see a change at the GM spot. Because they do blame everything that goes wrong on a guy who is older, doesn't present himself well in public and comes off as extremely arrogant.
That doesn't mean they're right but this whole thing about a vocal minority is opinion and far from fact. Have Dave walk out to the 50 yard line 5 minutes before the kickoff against the Broncos and wave to the crowd and see what kind of reaction he gets.
I would love to hear from an objective Giants fan who follows the college game if Toney was the best player available at 20. From what I’ve read, he wasn’t and that tells me the Giants drafted for need or in this case, in my opinion, perceived need. I don’t who they could have drafted at 20 who would have given Jones a better chance to show what he can do and make the Giants a better team but I don’t think that player was Toney. It’s interesting that the most critical criticisms of taking Toney are around the thought that there were better WRs who were available which is the definition of drafting for need. And, in my opinion, if you drafted for need, it is and was the OL. Sale may turn out to be a great assistant coach but there aren’t enough hours in the day to fix each player on the line and that includes using all the consultants.
Does it really matter at this point? Every teams draft board is different, schemes are different and you will draft for need if the players are rated close. Clearly he was the best rated WR on the Giants board. Some people had him rated very high and others not so much and some like Sy had a red mark for character so that skews the grade as well. At this point hes our guy and we should all hope that he plays like the #1 overall pick. There is no point in not cheering for the kid to be great to prove the Giants made the wrong pick. I didnt want to pick him but thankfully Mara hasnt asked my opinion.
you may believe Toney was a bad pick, but I can tell you that down here in Jax Urban Meyer was pissing and moaning about the Giants taking Toney. He wanted him badly.
There goes the Superbowl and any chance of the playoffs
Shane Lemieux the Giants fifth round 2020 draft pick who started 9 games last year sat in the back of a cart while they drove him off the practice field. Team officials state it was an issue with his knee. Its over now. All hopes for the Giants are gone. Giants fans have begun jumping off the Rt 3 overpass outside the Metlife Sports Complex and into the Berry's Creek Canal Time to dump the roster and move into rebuild mode.
I mean, was Lemieux the difference between a Super Bowl or getting beat in the NFC Championship game? He’s pretty much the worst starter on a fairly lousy offensive line and a team that’s been one of the worst teams in the NFL for a decade. So, I don’t think these Giants are winning the Lombardi this year even if Lemieux turns out to be fine and no one else gets hurt for the rest of the season.
So, it’s not like our dreams are dashed, because this was always going to be, in the best case scenario, another rebuilding year. Getting over .500, winning the division or a Wild Card, and getting to the playoffs are our expectation, stretch and prayer goals. So let’s hang in there a little while longer BBIers.
“You have two guys with Golladay you have a guy who has put up some big numbers in this league,” Mara said. “John Ross is someone who has some unique speed, and we think we might hit on him as well. Surrounding Daniel with more weapons was certainly a priority coming into this offseason.”
The Giants presumptive starting 5 lineman going into camp had a total cap hit of under 16M this year. Lane Johnson’s cap hit is larger this year.
Overall the Giants are in the bottom 3rd in the league in oline cost this year. The most costly player of the group is the backup swing tackle — and remember the Giants very easily could have cut Solder and saved an additional 3M dollars.
The Giants took a high risk, high reward approach to the line. They are betting on 4/5 of the line doing something they’ve never done — play a full season of NFL average or above games.
The only player on the line who you can say, if that guy has a repeat of last year, we’re good, is Gates.
Given the trouble Gettleman’s had putting together a competent group, I was surprised with the approach.
RE: I think we've all learned enough about how the Giants work
over the past 4-5 years to know that Gettleman has an important voice in all personnel decisions but he has hardly the only one. The owners, the coaches, the assistant GM, the scouts are all very involved in what Kevin Abrams calls team building.
I do dispute it's a very vocal minority that has lost patience and faith with the current GM. I think a large majority of the fan base would like to see a change at the GM spot. Because they do blame everything that goes wrong on a guy who is older, doesn't present himself well in public and comes off as extremely arrogant.
That doesn't mean they're right but this whole thing about a vocal minority is opinion and far from fact. Have Dave walk out to the 50 yard line 5 minutes before the kickoff against the Broncos and wave to the crowd and see what kind of reaction he gets.
Agreed. Gettleman-haters may be a relatively small group but Gettleman-dislikers is much larger than his fan club members would like to admit. Including the president of it above.
Hell, even the DG fan club basically turned this into "We trust Judge" approach this offseason because of tiring support for him. No GM bats a thousand, but as long as he is now working in combination with Judge or Judge signs off on things then everything is okay.
If the injury is bad, at least we have a full camp/preseason for them to figure out the best guy left and have him work with the remainder of the line. That, plus confidence in the coaches that they will teach the replacement linemen exactly what he needs to know for each offense installed on a weekly basis, determined by opposing position players and that team's defensive scheme, and his largest personal weaknesses.
RE: RE: I see the torches and pitchforks are out already
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
The mistakes that began in 2018 are why the team sucks. Gettleman's job performance from the day he was hired is the worst of any Giant coach or executive that I can recall in over 30 years of following the team.
And be honest - if Gettleman had performed well in 2018 you'd be mentioning it at every opportunity. Shit you mention the four Super Bowls when people criticize John Mara's job performance...and he wasn't even working for the Giants in '86.
Bottom line is Gettleman has been an abject disaster - and that disaster is built on the two brutal draft picks of Barkley and Jones.
Hey maybe we'll enjoy being over .500 at some point this year. Haven't been able to do that since December 2016.
“You have two guys with Golladay you have a guy who has put up some big numbers in this league,” Mara said. “John Ross is someone who has some unique speed, and we think we might hit on him as well. Surrounding Daniel with more weapons was certainly a priority coming into this offseason.”
So no surprise Toney was the pick at #20.
Everyone and their brother knew they wanted DaVonta Smith before the Eagles swiped him.
Until we have details on the extent of today's injury
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
Super Bowl number one. It is very hard to win in this league.
It has not been great but they have added some very good players and depth. Even if Jones does not work out the next QB will be stepping into a much better situation than he did. We may have a top 8 D this year.
I never felt Dave was hired and told "do whatever you want to fix it". He has had parameters (Eli mandate) and in his defense he was took over a very poor roster from years of poor drafting. They are making progress albeit slower than hoped.
The OL will be okay and keeping it low cost is the best way to build long term success. The excess cost they had starting 2009 on the OL was the biggest factor for the decline imv. Keep drafting and developing OL each year.
I don't understand this well we sucked in the recent past, so it's
almost a sure-fire bet we will suck in the future. I mean in my lifetime it seems like we have a decade of good football, resulting in two superbowls, followed by a decade of poor football, and than another decade of good football resulting in another two superbowl wins, and now a decade of bade football. If this data stays true to form we will win another two superbowls. Of course that's silly to think, just like it's silly to think look at the recent history and apply it to 2020 on.
DG has been a middling GM so far imo and his two biggest mistakes, far and away, was the hiring of Shurmur and the clown car and the judgement of the team going into 2018 (this assesment led to very poor decisions) Seems like he got the coaching staff right the second time (only time will tell, but if you aint excited about Judge and staff, don't know what to tell you) and personally I think he got the QB right.
2021 is truly a make-or-break year for this franchise and yet some don't believe it's possible. Which is fine, but to point at the past 8 years is, to me, completely assinine and irrelevant. Blasphemy to say, but if the team turns around next year, I think you have to look at DG positively. He did take over a complete clusterfuck.
This vocal minority thing is weird. The GM has not spent a single day above .500. I bet a straw poll wouldn’t me be kind to Rabbit Foot Dave.
It’s a fan site to debate football. Maybe the silent majority can kick in some opinions?
That is one of the funnier things around here lately - the "vocal minority".
The arrogance of this equally vocal "majority" - the lemmings - is unbelievable. Especially when they preach their other go-to mantra about what a real fan is and how this real fan should post.
This vocal minority thing is weird. The GM has not spent a single day above .500. I bet a straw poll wouldn’t me be kind to Rabbit Foot Dave.
It’s a fan site to debate football. Maybe the silent majority can kick in some opinions?
That is one of the funnier things around here lately - the "vocal minority".
The arrogance of this equally vocal "majority" - the lemmings - is unbelievable. Especially when they preach their other go-to mantra about what a real fan is and how this real fan should post.
Why don't you tweet a reply to the Just Giants podcast then. They called it a vocal minority - and if you look at this board, That holds exactly true too.
Just because you and a couple other posters take up most threads to bash the GM, with plenty of references to 2018 doesn't mean that most of teh fanbase agrees.
Heck, The Giants Insider podcast references this frequently as well. That the minority of fans ripping Jones and Gettleman don't seem to mesh with the majority of the fanbase - and certainly not the team itself.
Well, I do because the majority want a monolithic BBI, but I find that totally insulting. This organization has struggled for a decade to get out of its own way. They deserve no benefit of the doubt UNTIL we start winning more games in a season than we lose.
It's always easier to follow the mainstream. It's safe - like a warm blanket.
Candidly, I don't mind optimism is it makes sense. But posting articles about Daniel Jones having a steak dinner where he spews endless cliches is not reason - for me - to feel better about Jones heading into '21. It's a perfect example of your favorite word - ponderous.
It isn't about volume - it is content. You post a variation of the same thing over and over again, ad nauseum. And it isn't just occasionally - it is every day.
Except for those years when the team was winning Super Bowls, which is still one of those pesky things you can't explain very well.
Putting aside all of the conventional wisdom you seem to learn from the various Giant podcasts, why is it so important that most of the fanbase agree on topics? Particularly with a team that has had far more go wrong with it than right over the past decade. Seems like opinions should be as widely varied as the issues themselves.
The minority opinion, whether its vocal or not, should have the same right to be heard as any majority. In fact, even moreso if you are attempting at all to have a meaningful conversation or debate.
If the goal is to just pile on like lemmings when the minority opinion, or God forbid critics of anything NY Giants, announces itself then you have your answer as to why threads go side-ways so quickly.
Or is the call out of the vocal minority just your way to bring back calling posters "contrarians" once again? That nugget seems to have fallen out of your vocabulary as of late, huh...
RE: RE: I see the torches and pitchforks are out already
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
What type of reasonable person wouldn't question a GM's decision-making with 15 wins over three years?
Putting aside all of the conventional wisdom you seem to learn from the various Giant podcasts, why is it so important that most of the fanbase agree on topics? Particularly with a team that has had far more go wrong with it than right over the past decade. Seems like opinions should be as widely varied as the issues themselves.
The minority opinion, whether its vocal or not, should have the same right to be heard as any majority. In fact, even moreso if you are attempting at all to have a meaningful conversation or debate.
If the goal is to just pile on like lemmings when the minority opinion, or God forbid critics of anything NY Giants, announces itself then you have your answer as to why threads go side-ways so quickly.
Or is the call out of the vocal minority just your way to bring back calling posters "contrarians" once again? That nugget seems to have fallen out of your vocabulary as of late, huh...
And, how does an organization quantify a fan base's happiness with a a GM? lol. Certainly not wins, in our case.
It isn't about volume - it is content. You post a variation of the same thing over and over again, ad nauseum. And it isn't just occasionally - it is every day.
And so the Pot has spoken.
One of the all-time hypocritical posts.
I ended last evening saying basically the same thing
but a little more info... Pat Leonard Report - ( New Window )
IIRC, non-contact knee injuries are usually pretty bad. I assume no contact because I don't think it's allowed yet. And everyone was saying it didn't appear to be a leg injury???
RE: I ended last evening saying basically the same thing
RE: LOL..
Jimmy Googs : 7/28/2021 11:32 pm : link : reply
In comment 15315941 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
But then again, you spend most of the time telling people what posts are bad by them. Or bad looks.
Best example of hypocrisy on the board...
Clownshoes. You spend many posts telling people "bad post" and assorted other comments like that as if you are an arbiter of anything.
You should eliminate "hypocrisy" from your vocabulary. You tell people "bad post" or "bad look" after you were literally kicked off the board, took on a dupe handle for a year and returned doing the same things you did prior to being banned (and while being banned).
The idea of you calling anyone hypocritical is the definition of the fucking word.
It isn't about volume - it is content. You post a variation of the same thing over and over again, ad nauseum. And it isn't just occasionally - it is every day.
I forgot to ask - if I posted the "same thing over and over again, ad nauseum" but you agreed with it, would you still respond similarly?
RE: RE: I see the torches and pitchforks are out already
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
You’re so quick to criticize anyone who is critical of gettleman. He’s done an objectively horrible job in spite of having three top 6 picks the last three years. The division was horrible last year and they couldn’t even win it. The o line is still bad and we’re all supposed to have blind optimism in a first year coach and a young line that sucked last year and lost their most reliable lineman who was snatched up quickly by an organization who knows what they’re doing
RE: RE: I ended last evening saying basically the same thing
the strategy of going with the OL as is as a very big risk, especially considering DJs confidence and turnover problems...What on earth could they have to say about a thin unit which has underachieved for the better part of a decade getting thinner?
I guess the preference would be something like this.
"Joe Judge is going to figure it out, he's the best, this makes me MORE excited for the season to see what he can do with a more unproven line"
It's especially odd that the person who has become enemy of the state here Jerry Reese, largely failed by overemphasizing the skill positions on offense and not taking care of the line, or understanding the strengths of his franchise QB.
I know the constant chorus of of could a FAN know more than the Giants!!
But I don't know what's so complicated about saying, hey, DJ would look great in the RPO, maybe a lot more OL help would be more valuable to us than Toney and a lot FA dollars deployed but almost zero on the OL.
Are we going to get treated to another season where we call the team devoid of talent but argue that we don't need wholesale changes in the front office? God I hope not.
Seems those critical of DG already know how this year is turning out
I read Jones sucks, the OL is bad, that Barkley was a bad pick and especially how bad a job DG has done. It must be nice to know all that already. I was going to see how the season went before I cast judgement but I guess I can just rely on those that already know. Can I get tomorrow’s lottery numbers while you’re at it.
but people seem to have a problem with the idea that those that expressed concerns about the OL might express more concern here. And that's a little bonkers
but people seem to have a problem with the idea that those that expressed concerns about the OL might express more concern here. And that's a little bonkers
I think people have expressed a lot more than “more concern”.
almost a sure-fire bet we will suck in the future. I mean in my lifetime it seems like we have a decade of good football, resulting in two superbowls, followed by a decade of poor football, and than another decade of good football resulting in another two superbowl wins, and now a decade of bade football. If this data stays true to form we will win another two superbowls. Of course that's silly to think, just like it's silly to think look at the recent history and apply it to 2020 on.
DG has been a middling GM so far imo and his two biggest mistakes, far and away, was the hiring of Shurmur and the clown car and the judgement of the team going into 2018 (this assesment led to very poor decisions) Seems like he got the coaching staff right the second time (only time will tell, but if you aint excited about Judge and staff, don't know what to tell you) and personally I think he got the QB right.
2021 is truly a make-or-break year for this franchise and yet some don't believe it's possible. Which is fine, but to point at the past 8 years is, to me, completely assinine and irrelevant. Blasphemy to say, but if the team turns around next year, I think you have to look at DG positively. He did take over a complete clusterfuck.
I don't really want to burst your bubble but the Giants are the only team in the NFL with a Superbowl WIN in each of the last 4 decades:
There was no clear consensus BPA at 20, it was a pretty flat range. However there was a drop off at OL after AVT/Darrisaw, they were in a deadzone at that position. Toney was going to get picked in the first round, the Jags and Ravens would have taken him. So he went in a range he was supposed to go in, probably the high end of that range but a range he was projected to go (bottom 1/top 2). I have no idea if was THE BPA for the Giants but he was BPA at a position of need which is how teams pick.
I'm on the record of not liking the pick BTW, I preferred Moore if they went WR and was on board with Paye at that spot.
DG pretty much admitted after the draft that once the Eagles jumped us for Devonta Smith, we were set to draft Vera-Tucker. Then the Bears offered us the trade...so we basically sacrificed an immediate OL upgrade for really good draft picks for next year.
I think any reasonable fan would admit the Giants still left the cupboard pretty bare on the OL. Hope Thomas proves to be the guy at LT, and the rest stay healthy and outperform expectations. Lemieux missing any meaningful time wouldn't be a great start
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
I do dispute it's a very vocal minority that has lost patience and faith with the current GM. I think a large majority of the fan base would like to see a change at the GM spot. Because they do blame everything that goes wrong on a guy who is older, doesn't present himself well in public and comes off as extremely arrogant.
That doesn't mean they're right but this whole thing about a vocal minority is opinion and far from fact. Have Dave walk out to the 50 yard line 5 minutes before the kickoff against the Broncos and wave to the crowd and see what kind of reaction he gets.
Does it really matter at this point? Every teams draft board is different, schemes are different and you will draft for need if the players are rated close. Clearly he was the best rated WR on the Giants board. Some people had him rated very high and others not so much and some like Sy had a red mark for character so that skews the grade as well. At this point hes our guy and we should all hope that he plays like the #1 overall pick. There is no point in not cheering for the kid to be great to prove the Giants made the wrong pick. I didnt want to pick him but thankfully Mara hasnt asked my opinion.
So, it’s not like our dreams are dashed, because this was always going to be, in the best case scenario, another rebuilding year. Getting over .500, winning the division or a Wild Card, and getting to the playoffs are our expectation, stretch and prayer goals. So let’s hang in there a little while longer BBIers.
“You have two guys with Golladay you have a guy who has put up some big numbers in this league,” Mara said. “John Ross is someone who has some unique speed, and we think we might hit on him as well. Surrounding Daniel with more weapons was certainly a priority coming into this offseason.”
So no surprise Toney was the pick at #20.
Overall the Giants are in the bottom 3rd in the league in oline cost this year. The most costly player of the group is the backup swing tackle — and remember the Giants very easily could have cut Solder and saved an additional 3M dollars.
The Giants took a high risk, high reward approach to the line. They are betting on 4/5 of the line doing something they’ve never done — play a full season of NFL average or above games.
The only player on the line who you can say, if that guy has a repeat of last year, we’re good, is Gates.
Given the trouble Gettleman’s had putting together a competent group, I was surprised with the approach.
I do dispute it's a very vocal minority that has lost patience and faith with the current GM. I think a large majority of the fan base would like to see a change at the GM spot. Because they do blame everything that goes wrong on a guy who is older, doesn't present himself well in public and comes off as extremely arrogant.
That doesn't mean they're right but this whole thing about a vocal minority is opinion and far from fact. Have Dave walk out to the 50 yard line 5 minutes before the kickoff against the Broncos and wave to the crowd and see what kind of reaction he gets.
Agreed. Gettleman-haters may be a relatively small group but Gettleman-dislikers is much larger than his fan club members would like to admit. Including the president of it above.
Hell, even the DG fan club basically turned this into "We trust Judge" approach this offseason because of tiring support for him. No GM bats a thousand, but as long as he is now working in combination with Judge or Judge signs off on things then everything is okay.
whatever...
It’s a fan site to debate football. Maybe the silent majority can kick in some opinions?
Quote:
That 20/20 vision is awesome!
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
The mistakes that began in 2018 are why the team sucks. Gettleman's job performance from the day he was hired is the worst of any Giant coach or executive that I can recall in over 30 years of following the team.
And be honest - if Gettleman had performed well in 2018 you'd be mentioning it at every opportunity. Shit you mention the four Super Bowls when people criticize John Mara's job performance...and he wasn't even working for the Giants in '86.
Bottom line is Gettleman has been an abject disaster - and that disaster is built on the two brutal draft picks of Barkley and Jones.
Hey maybe we'll enjoy being over .500 at some point this year. Haven't been able to do that since December 2016.
“You have two guys with Golladay you have a guy who has put up some big numbers in this league,” Mara said. “John Ross is someone who has some unique speed, and we think we might hit on him as well. Surrounding Daniel with more weapons was certainly a priority coming into this offseason.”
So no surprise Toney was the pick at #20.
Everyone and their brother knew they wanted DaVonta Smith before the Eagles swiped him.
Quote:
That 20/20 vision is awesome!
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
Yep.
It has not been great but they have added some very good players and depth. Even if Jones does not work out the next QB will be stepping into a much better situation than he did. We may have a top 8 D this year.
I never felt Dave was hired and told "do whatever you want to fix it". He has had parameters (Eli mandate) and in his defense he was took over a very poor roster from years of poor drafting. They are making progress albeit slower than hoped.
The OL will be okay and keeping it low cost is the best way to build long term success. The excess cost they had starting 2009 on the OL was the biggest factor for the decline imv. Keep drafting and developing OL each year.
DG has been a middling GM so far imo and his two biggest mistakes, far and away, was the hiring of Shurmur and the clown car and the judgement of the team going into 2018 (this assesment led to very poor decisions) Seems like he got the coaching staff right the second time (only time will tell, but if you aint excited about Judge and staff, don't know what to tell you) and personally I think he got the QB right.
2021 is truly a make-or-break year for this franchise and yet some don't believe it's possible. Which is fine, but to point at the past 8 years is, to me, completely assinine and irrelevant. Blasphemy to say, but if the team turns around next year, I think you have to look at DG positively. He did take over a complete clusterfuck.
It’s a fan site to debate football. Maybe the silent majority can kick in some opinions?
That is one of the funnier things around here lately - the "vocal minority".
The arrogance of this equally vocal "majority" - the lemmings - is unbelievable. Especially when they preach their other go-to mantra about what a real fan is and how this real fan should post.
You go girl.
Pat Leonard Report - ( New Window )
DeCastro had ankle surgery and wouldn't be ready for wk 1.
You go girl.
yes, go...
Quote:
This vocal minority thing is weird. The GM has not spent a single day above .500. I bet a straw poll wouldn’t me be kind to Rabbit Foot Dave.
It’s a fan site to debate football. Maybe the silent majority can kick in some opinions?
That is one of the funnier things around here lately - the "vocal minority".
The arrogance of this equally vocal "majority" - the lemmings - is unbelievable. Especially when they preach their other go-to mantra about what a real fan is and how this real fan should post.
Why don't you tweet a reply to the Just Giants podcast then. They called it a vocal minority - and if you look at this board, That holds exactly true too.
Just because you and a couple other posters take up most threads to bash the GM, with plenty of references to 2018 doesn't mean that most of teh fanbase agrees.
Heck, The Giants Insider podcast references this frequently as well. That the minority of fans ripping Jones and Gettleman don't seem to mesh with the majority of the fanbase - and certainly not the team itself.
Well, I do because the majority want a monolithic BBI, but I find that totally insulting. This organization has struggled for a decade to get out of its own way. They deserve no benefit of the doubt UNTIL we start winning more games in a season than we lose.
It's always easier to follow the mainstream. It's safe - like a warm blanket.
Candidly, I don't mind optimism is it makes sense. But posting articles about Daniel Jones having a steak dinner where he spews endless cliches is not reason - for me - to feel better about Jones heading into '21. It's a perfect example of your favorite word - ponderous.
Except for those years when the team was winning Super Bowls, which is still one of those pesky things you can't explain very well.
The minority opinion, whether its vocal or not, should have the same right to be heard as any majority. In fact, even moreso if you are attempting at all to have a meaningful conversation or debate.
If the goal is to just pile on like lemmings when the minority opinion, or God forbid critics of anything NY Giants, announces itself then you have your answer as to why threads go side-ways so quickly.
Or is the call out of the vocal minority just your way to bring back calling posters "contrarians" once again? That nugget seems to have fallen out of your vocabulary as of late, huh...
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That 20/20 vision is awesome!
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
What type of reasonable person wouldn't question a GM's decision-making with 15 wins over three years?
The minority opinion, whether its vocal or not, should have the same right to be heard as any majority. In fact, even moreso if you are attempting at all to have a meaningful conversation or debate.
If the goal is to just pile on like lemmings when the minority opinion, or God forbid critics of anything NY Giants, announces itself then you have your answer as to why threads go side-ways so quickly.
Or is the call out of the vocal minority just your way to bring back calling posters "contrarians" once again? That nugget seems to have fallen out of your vocabulary as of late, huh...
And, how does an organization quantify a fan base's happiness with a a GM? lol. Certainly not wins, in our case.
And so the Pot has spoken.
One of the all-time hypocritical posts.
Jimmy Googs : 7/28/2021 11:32 pm : link : reply
In comment 15315941 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
But then again, you spend most of the time telling people what posts are bad by them. Or bad looks.
Best example of hypocrisy on the board...
IIRC, non-contact knee injuries are usually pretty bad. I assume no contact because I don't think it's allowed yet. And everyone was saying it didn't appear to be a leg injury???
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RE: LOL..
Jimmy Googs : 7/28/2021 11:32 pm : link : reply
In comment 15315941 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
But then again, you spend most of the time telling people what posts are bad by them. Or bad looks.
Best example of hypocrisy on the board...
Clownshoes. You spend many posts telling people "bad post" and assorted other comments like that as if you are an arbiter of anything.
You should eliminate "hypocrisy" from your vocabulary. You tell people "bad post" or "bad look" after you were literally kicked off the board, took on a dupe handle for a year and returned doing the same things you did prior to being banned (and while being banned).
The idea of you calling anyone hypocritical is the definition of the fucking word.
It's why you are Jimmy Clownshoes.
I forgot to ask - if I posted the "same thing over and over again, ad nauseum" but you agreed with it, would you still respond similarly?
Quote:
That 20/20 vision is awesome!
I was just listening to the latest Just Giants podcast and they made a point about a very vocal minority of fans who make everything that happens to the team as a villification of Gettleman. We see that play out on BBI daily.
And much like is pointed out here in many threads, they commented that even though the arrow is seemingly pointing up, that vocal minority wants to relive 2018 over and over again.
You’re so quick to criticize anyone who is critical of gettleman. He’s done an objectively horrible job in spite of having three top 6 picks the last three years. The division was horrible last year and they couldn’t even win it. The o line is still bad and we’re all supposed to have blind optimism in a first year coach and a young line that sucked last year and lost their most reliable lineman who was snatched up quickly by an organization who knows what they’re doing
The idea of you calling anyone hypocritical is the definition of the fucking word.
I can see the hypocrisy posts are getting under your skin a bit. That's when the cursing starts like above.
Staying on topic, why not respond in kind to all the comments you received on your little "vocal minority" lesson? A bunch of folks have chimed in.
Or is there an escape hatch coming in your near future?
I guess the preference would be something like this.
"Joe Judge is going to figure it out, he's the best, this makes me MORE excited for the season to see what he can do with a more unproven line"
It's especially odd that the person who has become enemy of the state here Jerry Reese, largely failed by overemphasizing the skill positions on offense and not taking care of the line, or understanding the strengths of his franchise QB.
I know the constant chorus of of could a FAN know more than the Giants!!
But I don't know what's so complicated about saying, hey, DJ would look great in the RPO, maybe a lot more OL help would be more valuable to us than Toney and a lot FA dollars deployed but almost zero on the OL.
Are we going to get treated to another season where we call the team devoid of talent but argue that we don't need wholesale changes in the front office? God I hope not.
I think people have expressed a lot more than “more concern”.
The same argument using the same language in multiple posts every day spanning what seems like an eon.
DG has been a middling GM so far imo and his two biggest mistakes, far and away, was the hiring of Shurmur and the clown car and the judgement of the team going into 2018 (this assesment led to very poor decisions) Seems like he got the coaching staff right the second time (only time will tell, but if you aint excited about Judge and staff, don't know what to tell you) and personally I think he got the QB right.
2021 is truly a make-or-break year for this franchise and yet some don't believe it's possible. Which is fine, but to point at the past 8 years is, to me, completely assinine and irrelevant. Blasphemy to say, but if the team turns around next year, I think you have to look at DG positively. He did take over a complete clusterfuck.
I don't really want to burst your bubble but the Giants are the only team in the NFL with a Superbowl WIN in each of the last 4 decades:
2011
2007
1990
1986
So there's that little fact...