Whether you want to analyze my comment as opinion, conjecture or fact makes no difference.
Of course it does. In your compulsive need to criticize you present conjecture as fact and don't even understand the difference.
You do not KNOW that Judge didn't want the guy....
For months "Gettleman didn't have to give up picks, he could have waited and signed him in free agency"
Your rants presented that as fact, not conjecture. You don't KNOW that we could have signed him if he'd spent the year with The Jets and reached Free Agency. We got his services for a year, we got to see him up close and personal. Forest DeBruckner cost a top 15 first rounder...but still you ranted; called Gettleman a "fool" "buffon" and an "embarrassment".
Then you whine on other threads about the way you're treated and assert your right to be critical. Of course you do and a reasonable case can be made for all your positions but you don't have the necessary skills to do it and lose credibility through an excessive singularity, by presenting what "you think" as fact, and by an unevenness that suggests you are motivated by need and not a rational process.
But it's always entertaining to watch you whine...I don't get any respect".
but criticizing him for signing Benjamin is absurd.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
Whether you want to analyze my comment as opinion, conjecture or fact makes no difference.
Of course it does. In your compulsive need to criticize you present conjecture as fact and don't even understand the difference.
You do not KNOW that Judge didn't want the guy....
For months "Gettleman didn't have to give up picks, he could have waited and signed him in free agency"
Your rants presented that as fact, not conjecture. You don't KNOW that we could have signed him if he'd spent the year with The Jets and reached Free Agency. We got his services for a year, we got to see him up close and personal. Forest DeBruckner cost a top 15 first rounder...but still you ranted; called Gettleman a "fool" "buffon" and an "embarrassment".
Then you whine on other threads about the way you're treated and assert your right to be critical. Of course you do and a reasonable case can be made for all your positions but you don't have the necessary skills to do it and lose credibility through an excessive singularity, by presenting what "you think" as fact, and by an unevenness that suggests you are motivated by need and not a rational process.
But it's always entertaining to watch you whine...I don't get any respect".
Ahh, the 3am hit and run post that you seem to enjoy. The above is quite an embarrassing mess of, shall I say “thoughts”? But is your norm I guess.
Oh, and Judge didn’t want the guy. And now he’s gone...
but criticizing him for signing Benjamin is absurd.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
You don’t honestly believe that Benjamin prevented them from bringing in someone else that they liked instead, do you?
but criticizing him for signing Benjamin is absurd.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
No one got bumped for Benjamin and they will now back fill him anyway, the season doesn't start tomorrow. And in theory the alleged person that was passed over for Benjamin would now be there, no?
It was a non guaranteed contract and he got cut, just like tons of players across the league - did all those GM's fuck up too? Gentleman deserves heat for plenty of things but this is the biggest reach ive seen to date.
He mocked team rules and then threw a media temper tantrum after he got cut. Bubble players don't typically do that.
That's a distraction to the team. As much as I love what Bradberry said, do you think he wants to be talking about this subject right now?
Just because you say its a distraction doesn't mean its true, you know that right? And while you are taking the cynical angle there's the glass half full angle of this sending a message and being good for the team. Not saying that's true, but I'd say its more likely than what you are claiming.
I suspect he's gone and forgotten by now and the only people that care or even think about it are random people that don't have anything to do with the organization (like you).
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
that Bradberry's response has the potential of making this transaction a net positive for the team.
I would argue good GMs tend to avoid these situations to begin with.
Well GM Billy B does this a lot, both taking a shot on someone that's had issues or is over the hill, and cutting people to send a message.
Les in TO - so Gettelman only signed him to maybe be called a genius? You realize how ridiculous that claim is, right? A more reasonable stance is that he tried to improve the team, even marginally, and the end result was a cut player with no cap repercussions whatsoever.
He mocked team rules and then threw a media temper tantrum after he got cut. Bubble players don't typically do that.
That's a distraction to the team. As much as I love what Bradberry said, do you think he wants to be talking about this subject right now?
We do not know if he threw the tantrum after he got cut or after he was called out and fined for mocking team rules. Either way does not look good for Benjamin.
if you could cite an example of Belichick taking a chance on an over the hill guy that he drafted himself AND asked him to play a different position.
I said he takes chances on players, and has a lot. If you are asking my for an exact mirroring of this scenario than I don't have one for you. He wasn't an ex GM that drafted players somewhere else and then brought them to the new team.
You know your stance is preposterous, no idea why you are dying on this hill. I'm done with this though, this couldn't be any more irrelevant.
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Why are you assuming someone else in the organization was responsible for ensuring DG didn't give Benjamin guaranteed money? You are just assuming DG wanted to and someone had to stop him.
I also don't understand why you are assuming that Judge didn't want him at camp? Judge didn't want him at camp out of shape. What is the basis for assuming Judge said no initially but DG signed him anyway?
There are plenty of decisions DG has made that warrant criticism. Assuming even benign moves are only benign because someone else stepped in and prevented DG from doing something dumb just makes you look like you have an axe to grind and you aren't being constrained by facts.
Going on in this thread to find anything to hit DG with. From theories about Benjamin being forced on the team to possible lost roster spots.
Not one player was overlooked when we signed Benjamin. In fact, our rookie mini-camp (which KB was a part of) was much smaller than usual so there was plenty of room for other players if the Giants wanted them. He also cost nothing for the Giants to cut since there was no signing bonus nor guarantee he'd make the team.
If you going to slam DG at least utilize some modicum of fact to back it up
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Why are you assuming someone else in the organization was responsible for ensuring DG didn't give Benjamin guaranteed money? You are just assuming DG wanted to and someone had to stop him. MAYBE IT WAS DG HIMSELF. HE SURE WANTED BENJAMIN TO BE A GIANT SO WHO KNOWS. REGARDLESS, GOOD NEWS THERE WAS NO GTD $ BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WASTE OF MONEY.
I also don't understand why you are assuming that Judge didn't want him at camp? Judge didn't want him at camp out of shape. What is the basis for assuming Judge said no initially but DG signed him anyway? IF JUDGE WANTED HIM HE WOULD STILL BE HERE. JUDGE DIDN'T EVEN GIVE HIM A CHANCE. READ BENJAMIN'S COMMENTS AND BETWEEN THE LINES.
There are plenty of decisions DG has made that warrant criticism. Assuming even benign moves are only benign because someone else stepped in and prevented DG from doing something dumb just makes you look like you have an axe to grind and you aren't being constrained by facts. NEVER SUGGESTED THIS WAS A BIG DEAL NOR WARRANTS ANY BIG-TIME CRITICISM. ONLY SUGGESTING IT WAS A MISTAKE AND IT WAS DG'S BECAUSE JUDGE DIDN'T WANT HIM OR HE'D STILL BE IN CAMP.
Going on in this thread to find anything to hit DG with. From theories about Benjamin being forced on the team to possible lost roster spots.
Not one player was overlooked when we signed Benjamin. In fact, our rookie mini-camp (which KB was a part of) was much smaller than usual so there was plenty of room for other players if the Giants wanted them. He also cost nothing for the Giants to cut since there was no signing bonus nor guarantee he'd make the team.
If you going to slam DG at least utilize some modicum of fact to back it up
Agree on no cost issue and not really a lost roster spot with KB. Really only wasting coaches time with signing as he was no longer a football player, and Judge saw it and got rid of him.
that Bradberry's response has the potential of making this transaction a net positive for the team.
I would argue good GMs tend to avoid these situations to begin with.
Well GM Billy B does this a lot, both taking a shot on someone that's had issues or is over the hill, and cutting people to send a message.
Les in TO - so Gettelman only signed him to maybe be called a genius? You realize how ridiculous that claim is, right? A more reasonable stance is that he tried to improve the team, even marginally, and the end result was a cut player with no cap repercussions whatsoever.
You guys are making things up.
it’s more likely a favour for someone he has a natural affinity towards. Either way it was a weird signing to expect Benjamin - after being out of football for so long - that he would suddenly be an improvement at a position he’s never played in the pros. contracts should be awarded on merit not friendships.
he got a try out with a piece of paper that said what he’d make if he made the team. Whether you think it’s weird, or he did him a favor, or whatever else you want to think makes absolutely zero difference. I cannot believe how much some of you are twisting this.
Other than the roster spot thing, nobody is really twisting anything.
he got a try out with a piece of paper that said what he’d make if he made the team. Whether you think it’s weird, or he did him a favor, or whatever else you want to think makes absolutely zero difference. I cannot believe how much some of you are twisting this.
Right? They tried something out of the box that "didn't work." Ironically, it did work as it seems to strengthen the unity of the team. You show up completely blowing by the expectations put on you? Your out, just speaks more to accountability. It's hard for me not to imagine they knew what the outcome of this was going to be based on the size of the fine. They could of just cut him, but they gave him a chance to stay based on the expectations they set, he refused. Accountability.
he got a try out with a piece of paper that said what he’d make if he made the team. Whether you think it’s weird, or he did him a favor, or whatever else you want to think makes absolutely zero difference. I cannot believe how much some of you are twisting this.
true. But maybe that try out could have been given to someone more deserving and who wouldn’t create such a shitstorm after being cut. Not the first time DG has failed with his Panthers-coloured glasses much like Dan Reeves turning the Giants into the NJ Broncos.
Benjamin is no longer here and the Giants can invite anyone or sign anyone to take his tryout slot. And there’s 31 other teams that have potential openings too.
Looking forward to the thread assessing the Giants choices for team movie night.
that he was cut not for not losing the weight, but for gaining some on top of it and his attitude. I would bet if he came in a little lighter, but not at the goal, they say they're disappointed, work him hard, but keep him around at least to start camp. But, he didn't lose a single pound and he didn't stay the same. Instead, he gained weight and threw it in the Giants' faces. That's on him.
By the way, it wasn't like the Giants were paying him
or he got some kind of signing or camp bonus so he was going to have to come out of pocket to pay the fine. A guy who hasn't played pro ball for 3 years. Judge knew exactly what he was doing.
I guess Getty could have spotted him the dough for the fine...
The signing was made by a DG, therefore it was a mistake. However, we should assume it was only a minor mistake because others intervened, although we have no evidence to support that?
Judge did not give Benjamin a chance because he was told to lose 14 pounds and instead gained 3. You think that was just an excuse to get rid of a guy he didn’t want?
The signing was made by a DG, therefore it was a mistake. However, we should assume it was only a minor mistake because others intervened, although we have no evidence to support that?
Judge did not give Benjamin a chance because he was told to lose 14 pounds and instead gained 3. You think that was just an excuse to get rid of a guy he didn’t want?
Just a silly take.
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
As usual (I don't think you can help yourself) you present conjecture and suppositions ad fact.
Benjamin was little risk, big rewards...IOW's a long shot - Unlikely to come in, but a nice payoff if he did
Enough size to play tight end with the speed of a WR. You bring him to camp.
If the attitude is wrong, you cut the bum and in so doing send a message, the only downside is giving you the chance to call it an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake by Gettleman.
Which it wasn't!!!
As usual (I don't think you can help yourself) you present conjecture and suppositions ad fact.
Benjamin was little risk, big rewards...IOW's a long shot - Unlikely to come in, but a nice payoff if he did
Enough size to play tight end with the speed of a WR. You bring him to camp.
If the attitude is wrong, you cut the bum and in so doing send a message, the only downside is giving you the chance to call it an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake by Gettleman.
Which it wasn't!!!
The midnight strangler is up and awake! I didn’t say it was an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake. I said it was mistake.
And you know how I know that, once again? Real simple...because Judge cut him before he even got to practice one minute in camp.
You are what I would suggest is an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake...
Benjamin because he came to camp overweight. There is no evidence that he cut him because he thought DG made a mistake.
Your compulsive need to criticize notwithstanding.
For all we know JJ begged DG to bring him in. That's my conjecture du jour.
You really do not understand the difference between fact and conjecture.
Benjamin because he came to camp overweight. There is no evidence that he cut him because he thought DG made a mistake.
Your compulsive need to criticize notwithstanding.
For all we know JJ begged DG to bring him in. That's my conjecture du jour.
You really do not understand the difference between fact and conjecture.
No, he was going to fine him for being overweight. But after talking to him for a few minutes Judge realized this was just a waste of time anyway and a mistake to have him at camp so he decided to just cut him.
Whether you dispute those facts or want to refer to them as conjecture makes no difference...
going to release Kelvin Benjamin for being overweight. He was only fining him. Kelvin Benjamin got himself released by acting the way he did.
The leaps and bounds some people are making on here is comical.
Let's look at some facts
1. The giants were not going to sign golladay until judge met him and signed off on it.
2. Most of the drafted players have had SEC ties
3. Joe judge does not seem like the kind of coach to do a favor for someone to just look to get rid of the guy. If he doesn't want him, he would just say so.
Gettleman was not going to charge the hill for Kelvin Benjamin and be upset if judge said no.
Silly comment. Players that practice and try to earn a roster spot during summer camp but ultimately get cut are not mistakes.
Guys that aren’t football players any longer who walk out of the locker room on the first day of camp and don’t even make it onto the practice field for one snap before they get cut are certainly mistakes.
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
A lot of teams are making a lot of mistakes then. Just look at the players being released and signed throughout the NFL and we aren't through 1 week of training camp yet. Players that were just signed this week will also be released in 2 weeks (if not sooner). More mistakes.
I predict googs will be pointing out all of the mistakes gettleman has made as each player is released as we cut down from 90. Fire gettleman now
Already addressed that earlier. You missed the point
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
I guess it's semantics at this point. To me, this was a low risk gamble that basically every team takes.
A real roster mistake is where the cost-benefit outcome is upside down and there is a material impact to the cap - short and/or long-term - and to the team's performance on the field.
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
I guess it's semantics at this point. To me, this was a low risk gamble that basically every team takes.
A real roster mistake is where the cost-benefit outcome is upside down and there is a material impact to the cap - short and/or long-term - and to the team's performance on the field.
So this situation does not qualify.
I agree with bw here. It was not a mistake to see if KB could play. Many players flourish in a new environment. Players sometimes develop with different coaching that is able to reach that player. There was no money lost. A roster spot for the 90th player who is cut is not that important.
Tom Brady lasting until the 6th round is a mistake. Rocky Thompson taken in the 1st round is a mistake.
Taking a chance on a talented player that may want a 2nd chance on a low cost contract is not a mistake.
Sorry but this thread is about Kelvin Benjamin, a guy who hasn’t suited up in 3 years. And the reasons why aren’t a mystery. This was a waste of the coaches time and Judge shut it down quickly...
Showed he was not serious by showing up overweight, but Judge was only going to find him. Had the altercation not happened Benjamin is more than likely still on the team. More evidence points to this theory than Judge itching to get rid of KB.
Of course it does. In your compulsive need to criticize you present conjecture as fact and don't even understand the difference.
You do not KNOW that Judge didn't want the guy....
For months "Gettleman didn't have to give up picks, he could have waited and signed him in free agency"
Your rants presented that as fact, not conjecture. You don't KNOW that we could have signed him if he'd spent the year with The Jets and reached Free Agency. We got his services for a year, we got to see him up close and personal. Forest DeBruckner cost a top 15 first rounder...but still you ranted; called Gettleman a "fool" "buffon" and an "embarrassment".
Then you whine on other threads about the way you're treated and assert your right to be critical. Of course you do and a reasonable case can be made for all your positions but you don't have the necessary skills to do it and lose credibility through an excessive singularity, by presenting what "you think" as fact, and by an unevenness that suggests you are motivated by need and not a rational process.
But it's always entertaining to watch you whine...I don't get any respect".
He won't call a player an asshole, for example, but he might tell him to get his head out of his fucking ass. Subtle, but important distinction.
If Benjamin can't handle the latter type of cursing, then he's in the wrong profession.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
Of course it does. In your compulsive need to criticize you present conjecture as fact and don't even understand the difference.
You do not KNOW that Judge didn't want the guy....
For months "Gettleman didn't have to give up picks, he could have waited and signed him in free agency"
Your rants presented that as fact, not conjecture. You don't KNOW that we could have signed him if he'd spent the year with The Jets and reached Free Agency. We got his services for a year, we got to see him up close and personal. Forest DeBruckner cost a top 15 first rounder...but still you ranted; called Gettleman a "fool" "buffon" and an "embarrassment".
Then you whine on other threads about the way you're treated and assert your right to be critical. Of course you do and a reasonable case can be made for all your positions but you don't have the necessary skills to do it and lose credibility through an excessive singularity, by presenting what "you think" as fact, and by an unevenness that suggests you are motivated by need and not a rational process.
But it's always entertaining to watch you whine...I don't get any respect".
Ahh, the 3am hit and run post that you seem to enjoy. The above is quite an embarrassing mess of, shall I say “thoughts”? But is your norm I guess.
Oh, and Judge didn’t want the guy. And now he’s gone...
Quote:
but criticizing him for signing Benjamin is absurd.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
You don’t honestly believe that Benjamin prevented them from bringing in someone else that they liked instead, do you?
But yes, I do feel comfortable believing that were Benjamin never signed, some other kid would've had a shot in his place.
Quote:
but criticizing him for signing Benjamin is absurd.
Disagree. DG deserves criticism for bringing Benjamin on board, especially with the way it turned out. For all we know, Benjamin got a shot here instead of some other young, hungry player who could have contributed something.
And he only got that shot because of his name and the fact that DG wanted to resurrect his career.
And he was being asked to play a position that he's never played before, which made it even more unlikely to work.
It was a dumb experiment from jump and DG deserves the blame for that.
No one got bumped for Benjamin and they will now back fill him anyway, the season doesn't start tomorrow. And in theory the alleged person that was passed over for Benjamin would now be there, no?
It was a non guaranteed contract and he got cut, just like tons of players across the league - did all those GM's fuck up too? Gentleman deserves heat for plenty of things but this is the biggest reach ive seen to date.
That's a distraction to the team. As much as I love what Bradberry said, do you think he wants to be talking about this subject right now?
That's a distraction to the team. As much as I love what Bradberry said, do you think he wants to be talking about this subject right now?
Just because you say its a distraction doesn't mean its true, you know that right? And while you are taking the cynical angle there's the glass half full angle of this sending a message and being good for the team. Not saying that's true, but I'd say its more likely than what you are claiming.
I suspect he's gone and forgotten by now and the only people that care or even think about it are random people that don't have anything to do with the organization (like you).
I would argue good GMs tend to avoid these situations to begin with.
I would argue good GMs tend to avoid these situations to begin with.
Well GM Billy B does this a lot, both taking a shot on someone that's had issues or is over the hill, and cutting people to send a message.
Les in TO - so Gettelman only signed him to maybe be called a genius? You realize how ridiculous that claim is, right? A more reasonable stance is that he tried to improve the team, even marginally, and the end result was a cut player with no cap repercussions whatsoever.
You guys are making things up.
That's a distraction to the team. As much as I love what Bradberry said, do you think he wants to be talking about this subject right now?
We do not know if he threw the tantrum after he got cut or after he was called out and fined for mocking team rules. Either way does not look good for Benjamin.
I said he takes chances on players, and has a lot. If you are asking my for an exact mirroring of this scenario than I don't have one for you. He wasn't an ex GM that drafted players somewhere else and then brought them to the new team.
You know your stance is preposterous, no idea why you are dying on this hill. I'm done with this though, this couldn't be any more irrelevant.
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Quote:
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Why are you assuming someone else in the organization was responsible for ensuring DG didn't give Benjamin guaranteed money? You are just assuming DG wanted to and someone had to stop him.
I also don't understand why you are assuming that Judge didn't want him at camp? Judge didn't want him at camp out of shape. What is the basis for assuming Judge said no initially but DG signed him anyway?
There are plenty of decisions DG has made that warrant criticism. Assuming even benign moves are only benign because someone else stepped in and prevented DG from doing something dumb just makes you look like you have an axe to grind and you aren't being constrained by facts.
Not one player was overlooked when we signed Benjamin. In fact, our rookie mini-camp (which KB was a part of) was much smaller than usual so there was plenty of room for other players if the Giants wanted them. He also cost nothing for the Giants to cut since there was no signing bonus nor guarantee he'd make the team.
If you going to slam DG at least utilize some modicum of fact to back it up
Quote:
In comment 15317537 Les in TO said:
Quote:
Did the right thing. The signing was all Gettleman bringing in one of his guys either as a favour or in the small chance it worked out to make him look brilliant . The sooner they give personnel decisions to Judge and give Gettleman his retirement gold watch the better
It was a bad decision from the get-go by the GM, whatever the reasons. At least someone in the organization was smart enough to ensure DG didn't put any guaranteed money at risk, and only wasted the coaching staff's time.
And as mentioned, Judge made sure that wasted time was minimal as well since it is obvious now he never wanted Benjamin.
Why are you assuming someone else in the organization was responsible for ensuring DG didn't give Benjamin guaranteed money? You are just assuming DG wanted to and someone had to stop him. MAYBE IT WAS DG HIMSELF. HE SURE WANTED BENJAMIN TO BE A GIANT SO WHO KNOWS. REGARDLESS, GOOD NEWS THERE WAS NO GTD $ BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A WASTE OF MONEY.
I also don't understand why you are assuming that Judge didn't want him at camp? Judge didn't want him at camp out of shape. What is the basis for assuming Judge said no initially but DG signed him anyway? IF JUDGE WANTED HIM HE WOULD STILL BE HERE. JUDGE DIDN'T EVEN GIVE HIM A CHANCE. READ BENJAMIN'S COMMENTS AND BETWEEN THE LINES.
There are plenty of decisions DG has made that warrant criticism. Assuming even benign moves are only benign because someone else stepped in and prevented DG from doing something dumb just makes you look like you have an axe to grind and you aren't being constrained by facts. NEVER SUGGESTED THIS WAS A BIG DEAL NOR WARRANTS ANY BIG-TIME CRITICISM. ONLY SUGGESTING IT WAS A MISTAKE AND IT WAS DG'S BECAUSE JUDGE DIDN'T WANT HIM OR HE'D STILL BE IN CAMP.
replies in caps...
Not one player was overlooked when we signed Benjamin. In fact, our rookie mini-camp (which KB was a part of) was much smaller than usual so there was plenty of room for other players if the Giants wanted them. He also cost nothing for the Giants to cut since there was no signing bonus nor guarantee he'd make the team.
If you going to slam DG at least utilize some modicum of fact to back it up
Agree on no cost issue and not really a lost roster spot with KB. Really only wasting coaches time with signing as he was no longer a football player, and Judge saw it and got rid of him.
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that Bradberry's response has the potential of making this transaction a net positive for the team.
I would argue good GMs tend to avoid these situations to begin with.
Well GM Billy B does this a lot, both taking a shot on someone that's had issues or is over the hill, and cutting people to send a message.
Les in TO - so Gettelman only signed him to maybe be called a genius? You realize how ridiculous that claim is, right? A more reasonable stance is that he tried to improve the team, even marginally, and the end result was a cut player with no cap repercussions whatsoever.
You guys are making things up.
Right? They tried something out of the box that "didn't work." Ironically, it did work as it seems to strengthen the unity of the team. You show up completely blowing by the expectations put on you? Your out, just speaks more to accountability. It's hard for me not to imagine they knew what the outcome of this was going to be based on the size of the fine. They could of just cut him, but they gave him a chance to stay based on the expectations they set, he refused. Accountability.
Looking forward to the thread assessing the Giants choices for team movie night.
I guess Getty could have spotted him the dough for the fine...
Judge did not give Benjamin a chance because he was told to lose 14 pounds and instead gained 3. You think that was just an excuse to get rid of a guy he didn’t want?
Just a silly take.
Judge did not give Benjamin a chance because he was told to lose 14 pounds and instead gained 3. You think that was just an excuse to get rid of a guy he didn’t want?
Just a silly take.
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
Benjamin was little risk, big rewards...IOW's a long shot - Unlikely to come in, but a nice payoff if he did
Enough size to play tight end with the speed of a WR. You bring him to camp.
If the attitude is wrong, you cut the bum and in so doing send a message, the only downside is giving you the chance to call it an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake by Gettleman.
Which it wasn't!!!
Benjamin was little risk, big rewards...IOW's a long shot - Unlikely to come in, but a nice payoff if he did
Enough size to play tight end with the speed of a WR. You bring him to camp.
If the attitude is wrong, you cut the bum and in so doing send a message, the only downside is giving you the chance to call it an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake by Gettleman.
Which it wasn't!!!
The midnight strangler is up and awake! I didn’t say it was an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake. I said it was mistake.
And you know how I know that, once again? Real simple...because Judge cut him before he even got to practice one minute in camp.
You are what I would suggest is an awful, very bad, really really bad mistake...
Your compulsive need to criticize notwithstanding.
For all we know JJ begged DG to bring him in. That's my conjecture du jour.
You really do not understand the difference between fact and conjecture.
Your compulsive need to criticize notwithstanding.
For all we know JJ begged DG to bring him in. That's my conjecture du jour.
You really do not understand the difference between fact and conjecture.
No, he was going to fine him for being overweight. But after talking to him for a few minutes Judge realized this was just a waste of time anyway and a mistake to have him at camp so he decided to just cut him.
Whether you dispute those facts or want to refer to them as conjecture makes no difference...
The leaps and bounds some people are making on here is comical.
Let's look at some facts
1. The giants were not going to sign golladay until judge met him and signed off on it.
2. Most of the drafted players have had SEC ties
3. Joe judge does not seem like the kind of coach to do a favor for someone to just look to get rid of the guy. If he doesn't want him, he would just say so.
Gettleman was not going to charge the hill for Kelvin Benjamin and be upset if judge said no.
Silly comment. Players that practice and try to earn a roster spot during summer camp but ultimately get cut are not mistakes.
Guys that aren’t football players any longer who walk out of the locker room on the first day of camp and don’t even make it onto the practice field for one snap before they get cut are certainly mistakes.
Do you disagree?
It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
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It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
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In comment 15318295 Jimmy Googs said:
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It was a mistake...you really want to debate this?
Nobody had to intervene, once he hits the field its on Judge to decide what to do with him. And it took Judge all of 10 minutes on the first day of camp to get rid of him. The weight thing was just the means to an end...
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
A lot of teams are making a lot of mistakes then. Just look at the players being released and signed throughout the NFL and we aren't through 1 week of training camp yet. Players that were just signed this week will also be released in 2 weeks (if not sooner). More mistakes.
I predict googs will be pointing out all of the mistakes gettleman has made as each player is released as we cut down from 90. Fire gettleman now
I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
I guess it's semantics at this point. To me, this was a low risk gamble that basically every team takes.
A real roster mistake is where the cost-benefit outcome is upside down and there is a material impact to the cap - short and/or long-term - and to the team's performance on the field.
So this situation does not qualify.
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I'm not sure I would characterize this as a mistake. I think it was more of a low risk/high reward play if KB actually worked out and contributed.
No it was a mistake. It may not have had ramifications to the cap or draft picks like some of DG’s other earlier mistakes, but it was still a clear mistake in evaluating and judging whether a guy was still able to play and act as a professional football player.
He didn’t even make onto the field folks. This was over before it even started...a mistake.
I guess it's semantics at this point. To me, this was a low risk gamble that basically every team takes.
A real roster mistake is where the cost-benefit outcome is upside down and there is a material impact to the cap - short and/or long-term - and to the team's performance on the field.
So this situation does not qualify.
I agree with bw here. It was not a mistake to see if KB could play. Many players flourish in a new environment. Players sometimes develop with different coaching that is able to reach that player. There was no money lost. A roster spot for the 90th player who is cut is not that important.
Tom Brady lasting until the 6th round is a mistake. Rocky Thompson taken in the 1st round is a mistake.
Taking a chance on a talented player that may want a 2nd chance on a low cost contract is not a mistake.
Yep, lasted much longer than Benjamin’s first day at camp...
Joe Judge sucks! I don't need to lose no weight!