But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
RE: We overpaid. Reaves is basically a shell of himself.
But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
Remember when the Penguins traded a first rounder for him?
The Rangers are going to have more fights than goals next season
But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
Remember when the Penguins traded a first rounder for him?
yes, lol, but to be fair they got a 2nd round pick back in the trade. And what's funny is I think they partly got Reaves because of Tom Wilson.
It just feels very amateur hour at every level. Talent traded for nothing, several now high paid goons brought in, buy outs that predictably get picked up by well run teams <24 hours …
Drury is thought highly in this league but just seems thoroughly
Unimpressive and anything but forward thinking
It just feels very amateur hour at every level. Talent traded for nothing, several now high paid goons brought in, buy outs that predictably get picked up by well run teams <24 hours …
Drury is thought highly in this league but just seems thoroughly
Unimpressive and anything but forward thinking
This ship was headed in a beautiful direction...and now because the youngest team IN THE LEAGUE didn't make the playoffs and got pushed around by the Caps at the end of the season they are torpedoing it
So disheartening and so typical Rangers....what a shock we only win once every five decades
What if Panarin didn't jump on Wilson to defend Buchnevich. Would JD and Gorton still be here? Would Quinn? And if so, they'd be in charge of free agency and the Draft...
I don't get all the complaining...They just reconfigured the bottom 2 lines and one D to add grit ...still have 2 scoring lines...Mika Breadman Kakko Lafreniere Fox Kreider chytil Kravtsov plenty of scoring... these guys are replacing Jack Johnson Blackwell Howden Gauthier Di Giuseppe etc guys who did what? Skate around and play D a little...bunch of AHLers being replaced with NHL vets...We have not traded away any assets....Still have a ton of youth on the team... Fox Kakko Lafreniere Chytil Kravtsov Lindgren Miller all 22 or younger...then you have Barron and Jones ready next year or the following year
Because I don’t think this is as bad as we’re making it seem.
Drury has largely stayed out of the deep end with some of the crazy money and term thrown around. Nemeth, after seeing some of the other completely average DMen deals was a solid deal, and same with Goodrow. Hunt was a solid depth signing. The one stain is the return on Buch, but all sources have said the interest simply wasn’t there for a player that had to be signed long term, and it takes two to tango. An obvious priority was to give our young wings locked in top 6 time, along with maximum PP time. Blais will help reshape our bottom 6 as an energy guy that can play.
Tinnordi and now Reaves are certainly a product of the need for toughness, but Tinnordi is a league minimum deal that can be buried in the AHL for no cap hit, and I can’t see Reaves in the lineup every night. You better believe he’ll be out there opening night and in some of the other heavy games (Wsh, Boston, NYI), but I can’t see him being a lineup fixture. It’s a 3rd rounder yes, but we have two 2nds and two 4ths next year. We’ll be able to maneuver.
With expansion the league elected to reduce division games going forward. That caps game you mention … yeah their average age is what 30 now - point is they’re in decline - and we play fhem 1 more time than we play Seattle this year. We go to Washington once. - opening night - all season. Then we don’t go their again until fall 2022.
This isn’t forward thinking. Talent wins. That didn’t change - someone please tell Rangers management
I don't get all the complaining...They just reconfigured the bottom 2 lines and one D to add grit ...still have 2 scoring lines...Mika Breadman Kakko Lafreniere Fox Kreider chytil Kravtsov plenty of scoring... these guys are replacing Jack Johnson Blackwell Howden Gauthier Di Giuseppe etc guys who did what? Skate around and play D a little...bunch of AHLers being replaced with NHL vets...We have not traded away any assets....Still have a ton of youth on the team... Fox Kakko Lafreniere Chytil Kravtsov Lindgren Miller all 22 or younger...then you have Barron and Jones ready next year or the following year
Ryan Reaves is a goon...and a goon that was signed strictly because the team is over reacting to one opposing player.
And furthermore, a goon that is going to take up a roster spot that should be occupied by a player that can actually contribute in some phase of the game, and not just run around committing penalties.
Using Gorts and Slats strategy we accumulated a massive amount of talent and a group that despite being, THE YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NHL, was in the thick of it for most of the season. The way they have worked this offseason is dinosaur thinking and the team is objectively worse than when the season ended
Everyone was complaining last year about the lack of ice time for the younger players. They will certainly get their chance now. No excuses now. Bottom six will be filled with role players that have the grit that has been missing. Kudos to Drury.
have been better off topping TBL for Corey Perry than trading a 3rd for Reaves.
Perry can play a regular shift, and play both specials, even at his age. He's not a top 6 player anymore, but he's the epitome of sandpaper and he would allow your youth to play top 6 minutes.
When I thought of the Rangers adding grit that's the kind of move I had in mind. Maybe even Nate Thompson.
Not Reaves. who is so one dimensional he's utility is limited.
I like Goodrow though. I thought that was a good move. Goodrow played 3rd line on TBL, but he could play top 6 minutes on NYR if they need him to.
Perry pj, but there was an article earlier on Perry strongly showing preference to where he was going to play when he was placed on waivers, and seemed it was either staying in Montreal, or going to a cup contender, which we’re not there yet.
Quote:
“So I did call three teams that looked like they would have the need for him, to ask them not to pick him up on waivers,” Morris told TSN Hockey Insider Pierre LeBrun in The Athletic. “It wasn’t a threat to retire or anything, but basically ‘can you adhere to who Corey Perry is. If your thought is to pick him up on waivers, please don’t.’
“Two of the teams said, ‘We were going to put in a claim until this call. We’ll respect his career.'”
Again, I don’t think Reaves will be a regular in the lineup. Assuming Strome and Krav are in the top 6, the bottom 6 will be some combo of Kreider, Chytil, Goodrow, Blais, Rooney, and Reaves/Gauthier/Barron. Just a presence in the lineup that will make some teams think when he’s there.
In comment 15317328 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
Laf-Zib-Kakko
Panarin-Strome-Krav
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow
Blais-Rooney-Reaves (game 1 vs Wash)/Gauthier/Barron
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth-Nils
Agreed, think you nailed it for now. But I bet we see some more movement this offseason. And I would take Gauthier off, he isn't playing 4th line...with the new emphasis on bottom 6 having established roles. Maybe he gets another crack if some top 6 wingers have injuries. I would add Hunt in that spot instead of Gauthier. Hunt hits everything that moves.
Reaves is probably 13th forward. Not a big deal. Probably plays twenty games
This team had to get tougher and I don’t mean fighting. Everyone saw it last year. I hated losing Buchnevich but let’s face it. We had a lot of guys fighting for top six minutes but our bottom six were not ideally matched. We never had a good checking line that could play the opponents top line. How many times did the rangers give up crucial goals in the last minute of period last year.
And most importantly. Last years team was NOT a team that would thrive in the playoffs.
Let’s see what happens rest. Of offseason.
This reminds me of when the Giants drafted all those team captains
bordering on asinine. They have a coach that’s 7000 times better than the guy he’s replacing. For all of the complaints about Goodrow’s contract, have you seen some of the deals third liners are getting around the sport? If we find (as we did this past season) a fourth liner on the second line while Laffy is skating fourth line minutes, then feel free to complain. I will too. Just way too much agita over fourth liners on one year deals. Could they have gotten more for Buch? Who knows? I seriously doubt Drury turned down better offers or just called one team and made the deal.
I like the team as it stands. They’re putting a lot on the shoulders of Kakko and Kravy. If Uncle Larry’s report about the Rangers offer for Eichel is true, that’s a bit rich for my blood. I probably wouldn’t do that.
bordering on asinine. They have a coach that’s 7000 times better than the guy he’s replacing. For all of the complaints about Goodrow’s contract, have you seen some of the deals third liners are getting around the sport? If we find (as we did this past season) a fourth liner on the second line while Laffy is skating fourth line minutes, then feel free to complain. I will too. Just way too much agita over fourth liners on one year deals. Could they have gotten more for Buch? Who knows? I seriously doubt Drury turned down better offers or just called one team and made the deal.
I like the team as it stands. They’re putting a lot on the shoulders of Kakko and Kravy. If Uncle Larry’s report about the Rangers offer for Eichel is true, that’s a bit rich for my blood. I probably wouldn’t do that.
Largely agree. Wouldn't stress out over a 13F and would rather have Reaves than Howden.
Reaves is not totally useless out there…he can hit but more importantly he can be intimidating. His presence alone should put a lid on opponents desire to hurt/abuse your big players. I wish my Leafs had traded for him. I don’t care about some 3rd round pick.
Honestly, the only two transactions that Drury has made that I really
like are the Gallant hiring and the Howden trade. Trading for Goodrow was good in a vacuum, but I don't like the term and I absolutely hate the length. Nemeth is okay and the money is fine, but again, not sure why we're going 3 years. We don't need him to block Matt Robertson, Zac Jones, Tarmo Reunanen, etc. Buch trade was an absolute disaster and even if Sammy Blais becomes something of value you won't be able to convince me that Buch wasn't traded for pennies on the dollar.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
I am going to give you an optimistic opinion on it...
Having Reeves play 8 mins a night just gives more ice time to Panarin, Zibby, Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, etc. and he will help once or twice a year with the Tom Wilson's of the league. But really his biggest benefit is granting more ice time to your studs I think. You have some studs for sure.
But trading Buchnevich... I have no optimistic opinion on that move. That was just dumb, even if you do get Eichel and needed the space.
btw - Are you getting Eichel? I keep hearing Strome to Ottawa so you can get him but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
RE: I am going to give you an optimistic opinion on it...
Having Reeves play 8 mins a night just gives more ice time to Panarin, Zibby, Chytil, Kakko, Lafreniere, etc. and he will help once or twice a year with the Tom Wilson's of the league. But really his biggest benefit is granting more ice time to your studs I think. You have some studs for sure.
But trading Buchnevich... I have no optimistic opinion on that move. That was just dumb, even if you do get Eichel and needed the space.
btw - Are you getting Eichel? I keep hearing Strome to Ottawa so you can get him but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
We can get Eichel even without trading Strome. We have enough cap space to absorb him and to re-sign Igor.
RE: Honestly, the only two transactions that Drury has made that I really
like are the Gallant hiring and the Howden trade. Trading for Goodrow was good in a vacuum, but I don't like the term and I absolutely hate the length. Nemeth is okay and the money is fine, but again, not sure why we're going 3 years. We don't need him to block Matt Robertson, Zac Jones, Tarmo Reunanen, etc. Buch trade was an absolute disaster and even if Sammy Blais becomes something of value you won't be able to convince me that Buch wasn't traded for pennies on the dollar.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
aren't term and length the same thing?
the Nemeth signing makes sense if you plan to contend, even if he's a healthy scratch every game....until he's not. I think you saw last year the drop off from NHL caliber D to non-NHL caliber D is huge so when someone is injured - and someone will be injured depth is important. Nemeth is at worst a legit bottom pair D minutes eater.
RE: RE: Honestly, the only two transactions that Drury has made that I really
like are the Gallant hiring and the Howden trade. Trading for Goodrow was good in a vacuum, but I don't like the term and I absolutely hate the length. Nemeth is okay and the money is fine, but again, not sure why we're going 3 years. We don't need him to block Matt Robertson, Zac Jones, Tarmo Reunanen, etc. Buch trade was an absolute disaster and even if Sammy Blais becomes something of value you won't be able to convince me that Buch wasn't traded for pennies on the dollar.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
aren't term and length the same thing?
the Nemeth signing makes sense if you plan to contend, even if he's a healthy scratch every game....until he's not. I think you saw last year the drop off from NHL caliber D to non-NHL caliber D is huge so when someone is injured - and someone will be injured depth is important. Nemeth is at worst a legit bottom pair D minutes eater.
I always thought term meant money and length meant the years. Combine the two and it's AAV.
Neil Smith got panicky after the Flyers swept the Rangers in the 1995 playoffs and went out and got a bunch of goons - Marty McSorley, Shane Churla, Dan Lacroix, Ulf Samuelsson, et al. Didn't work then, not expecting it to work now.
Neil Smith got panicky after the Flyers swept the Rangers in the 1995 playoffs and went out and got a bunch of goons - Marty McSorley, Shane Churla, Dan Lacroix, Ulf Samuelsson, et al. Didn't work then, not expecting it to work now.
Reaves is the only goon though? Blais, Goodrow, Nemeth and Hunt are all decent hockey players.
RE: I fucking hate everything about this offseason
Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.
Same for Reaves. Same for Tinordi. Hunt has some interesting stats, but to date has been a fringe NHL player. Goodrow is OK, but you can find guys like him for less money.
And, again, they dumped their best two-way player for essentially nothing.
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
Hopefully Kreider is gone by then. Brennan has also played some RW before.
is most likely a 4th liner. I'd rather have him than Di Guisseppee or Howden or whoever else.
He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.
His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.
If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)
I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
yea Goodrow was a massive overpay. Would have rather had Coleman for 1.3 mil more. He can pot you 20 goals.
How is Blais a fringe fourth liner? 13 pts in 40 and 15 in 36 is fine. He has a good shot too. Howden's 7 pts in 42 games on the other hand.
Hunt has good metrics. He has the potential to become a cheap Goodrow type player.
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
is most likely a 4th liner. I'd rather have him than Di Guisseppee or Howden or whoever else.
He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.
His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.
If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)
I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.
And I like Goodrow and am lukewarm on Nemeth
Tinordi is the 7th D. I'm lukewarm on Nemeth too. he failed the eye test for Wings and Avs fans. But his analytics are good so not sure.
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
GMs are so stupid. Buch should have returned a 1st + sami at least. Look at what Reinhart and Risto got. GMs value toughness and draft pedigree too much versus what a player actually is.
RE: RE: I fucking hate everything about this offseason
Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.
Wait… there’s was pro-Quinn brigade? Wow. Imagine if he actually accomplished something.
How is the team looking worse? You don’t like the defensive pairings or the top three lines? I liked Pavel Buchnevich, but people are acting like he was Pavel Datsyuk. Get a grip folks. Goodrow played the third line on a team infinitely better than this one, but it’s a problem that he’s here now? I also thought his contract was too much, but even third liners are getting ridiculous money on the open market. They still have all of the youngsters that no one wanted to trade, including immense depth on the blue line.
No Ranger fan would’ve fired Gorton or JD. But this idea that this has become a cratered wreck is hard to take seriously.
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
Wouldn't have fired JD or Gorton but Gorton wasn't perfect. McDonagh trade, Lias Andersson, kreider contract, Trouba contract, giving Mika a 5 year deal instead of 7-8, Brendan Smith, icing guys like Bitetto, Jack Johnson
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
DAL was apparently offering us 1st + Robertson for him.
Reaves is legitimately the toughest guy in the league and he can at least play a bit. They didn't go out and sign John Scott 2.0. He's the 12th/13th forward and can fill a role. And he's on a one year contract, pretty low impact as far as assets spent. He's also a good guy to have in the locker room by all accounts.
If you were excited about the young talent in the organization I don't see why that would have changed in the offseason. They're all still here. If Drury went out and sent Kakko or Laf to Buffalo for Eichel I'd join right in and go nuts. But it seems like he's actually waited that one out pretty well and he's letting Buffalo slowly lose their leverage.
The Buchnevich trade was unfortunate, but I think it's separate from this grit movement. I mentioned I would have just waited it out and tried to wait for a better offer. But I think teams knew the Rangers didn't have the leverage given the cap and the glut of wingers. You'd probably swap out Kreider for Buchnevich if you could have a re-do there. But that was Gorton's call
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.
The plan got altered by winning the lotto for Laf. They wouldnt have signed Kreider knowing that. Having 3 staright number 1 picks that are all top 6 wings, all NHL at the same time pushed a guy Like Buch who by the time he developed was ready to get paid off the roster.
If we didnt sign Kreider, didnt land Laf and Buch didnt step up as an all around player this year we would have gone into FA needing to over pay for a top 6 wing.
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.
Huh?? They haven’t gotten rid of any of these young players… not a single one. As it currently stands, they’re putting even MORE on the plate of Kakko and Kravy. They’re damn near handing a spot to Lundqvist. The Nemeth contract won’t keep any of the other young blue liners from coming up if they earn it. I’m not sure bringing in Goodrow and a collection of short term fourth liners signals a change of direction in the franchise.
JFresh
@JFreshHockey
·
2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
Did any of you complainers actually watch the team last year? All we did was look great and skilled vs. crap teams (Buffalo, NJ and Philly)...while we had our asses handed to us most of the time, and couldn't score, vs. the actual good playoff teams (NYI, Boston, Pitt). While Washington was the one playoff team we actually played decent against, until Tom Wilson tooled our entire team like we were a HS team.
And that was all in the regular season. Did you watch the playoffs? I don't think so, seems like you complainers tuned out NHL once they started. Because the playoffs were ramped up exponentially and those good, tough teams were that much tougher and heavier to play against. Any Rangers fan who thinks that team as constructed last year would ever do damage in the playoffs, is clueless as a hockey fan.
This isn't 80's and 90's hockey, but you still can't be all skill. You need defined roles and hard to play against lines. Bottom 6 cannot just be a bunch of young skilled players, learning on the fly. That was fine during rebuilding. But now it is time for those young players to step up to top 2 lines, and for bottom 6 to get tough...in order to take the next step to make playoffs and have a chance once we get there.
Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves are all great additions to get to that goal. I hated the Buch trade like all of you complainers. But unfortunately with the cap, not to mention a flat cap, we couldn't have realistically kept him past this year. So instead of keeping him for one more season and losing him for nothing, they got something for him and opened up another top 6 wing spot for all of our young "studs" that all you complainers want to see playing more. It sucks, but it is the salary cap world of the NHL.
You don't sign 3rd and 4th liners to big deals. You also don't trade elite first-line 60+ pt wings for them. You acquire them in the draft as most teams due. Low-skill, lower ceiling players who aren't going to skate circles around the opposition litter rounds 4+. That's where other organizations typically acquire bottom-6 types. Those guys are replaceable. Top 6 forwards aren't and cost top dollar in FA even if you're fortunate to stumble into a situation where another dumb organization is giving them up.
What Drury is doing ought to be a fireable offense. He's trading off elite skill for sluggishly slow grinders and committing 2-$3M a pop for them. The Goodrow signing and Buch trade are both terrible for different reasons.
the team play first before declaring we fire a GM that hasn't even led a season. We have a ton of cap room which if held onto, would be pretty valuable during the season, either for long term assets, or rentals depending on where we are.
We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.
Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.
In comment 15317697 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
the team play first before declaring we fire a GM that hasn't even led a season. We have a ton of cap room which if held onto, would be pretty valuable during the season, either for long term assets, or rentals depending on where we are.
We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.
Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.
How does Buch - a 26 year old top-line winger block anyone? He was our 2nd-3rd best PP forward last season and our best PK. The kids need to earn the time. Handing them top line minutes because of where they are drafted is a recipe for letdown. NYR were not strapped for cash and could have easily afforded Buch's 5.8. He's still a bargain and still getting better. You probably can't afford him if you're handing out $3M pers to 30 year old grinders who might stumble into 6 goals per seasons.
You can't convince me that a team wouldn't have given up more
JFresh
@JFreshHockey
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2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?
Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.
Fine. Get some who can actually play hockey unlike humps like Reaves and Blais.
So you want Tom Wilson, lol
in all seriousness that's why the players who are physical and skilled are treated like unicorns. "old time hockey" isn't a cliche for nothing.
they don't make Gordie Howe's any more (and obviously the game has changed.)
I think Patrice Bergeron is a decent example, I'd say Marchand but his name nauseates me, but being fair he is too. Ovie. I'd put Brendan Gallagher in this class. And it doesn't have to be an agitator per se, but a player who is willing to sacrifice himself for the play, every play and can put the puck in the net consistently. Not saying this list is limited to these few players, but it is limited.
Peter Forsberg epitomized this IMO.
but most players just don't have that combination of physicality and skill so you build your team to have both and players who "stay in their lane".
And I don't think Sammy Blais is talent-less. He's an upgrade over the 4th line you had last year IMO.
RE: You can't convince me that a team wouldn't have given up more
Having even play one game yet and many are assuming they are worse now then last year. Remind me. How many playoff appearances have they had in four years? If you closely followed the playoffs last season it was very very physical. Rangers would have been out right away like 2020.
Reaves is not only a good guy but a very hard checker, team player and
see what happens with the cap space we have for this year, and then make a judgment. While we all would have loved to have gotten a 1st+ for Buch, it wasn't out there, and we didn't want to block the kids. Is what it is, I like adding Goodrow to the group, and think Nemeth is a stellar partner for Nils. Hunt had solid advanced stats for in his time with a poor team in the Coyotes, and think he can open some eyes in a 4th line role every now and then.
I definitely agree pj, that our bottom 6 is way more rounded, especially after watching the physicality in the playoffs. There really wasn't a team in the East I think we would have matched up well with in a playoff type game/series, than ironically enough, the Canadiens.
The Rangers are likely going to make the playoffs because of the growth of the young players, Panarin not missing games due to Putin, Zibanejad not starting off poorly due to COVID, the reversion to the typical playoff format, and going from an average (and some think bad) coach to a good coach.
I think they hurt the ceiling of this team, though. More importantly, I think the emphasis on grit is concerning than any individual move. The Rangers doing better this year doesn't prove Drury right. He should have realized this team was in a good spot the next two years and skated off the organic growth rather than going gritty.
3 yrs, $2.5M per. Seen here with Pitt last season. Traditional and gritty stay-at-home forward that can deliver a crushing "slow down" to opposing scorers entering the defensive zone. In the mold that Druvy highly covets.
JFresh
@JFreshHockey
·
2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?
Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.
lol. I haven't put in the effort to really understand WAR in hockey and decide if it's meaningful, but some of the projections are dubious.
that said, maybe the philosophy is sound but the results aren't if you know what I mean.
One example I gave for his prior version related to NYI is how Trotz teams tend to over-perform (or perform to their expectations however you want to view it).
What I mean is NYI went from 80 points to 103 points when they added Trotz and lost Tavares.
Am I right on that? Was there another significant change beyond just Trotz and current player improvement?
This is part 2 of the Bradshear move, brought in to be our bug fighter then proceeded to lose every fight for the Rangers. You never tradebfor a goon, only Sather does that. Over and over again. But this is the moron owners chief advisor, the guy who ran the team for 20 year without a cup.
No sarcasm. I come in peace. From the top 9 They subtracted Buchnevich and added Goodrow. From the 4th line they subtracted Howden and added Blais and Reeves.
They signed Nemeth to partner on the 3rd pair with Lundkvist? On paper seems to make sense big experienced stay at home LD to partner with a kid from the same country coming over for the first time.
They held on to all of the kids at the NHL and AHL level. How are they not a better team than last year? Was the price of the bottom of the roster makeover too expensive? Seems most people here think so.
The real decisions and they fate of the team in my opinion are still to come. Resign Mika? Trade a bunch of young guys for Eichel and let Mika leave? Who plays C on lines 2 and 3 if there are no trades? Chytil as C 2? Trade Strome?
The Rangers need their David DeBusschere or Butch Goring trade. They need to find the guy who fits perfectly and makes it all work. Is that Eichel? Even if it is the price is going to hurt. The Knicks traded a HOFer for DeBusschere. The Islanders traded two of their popular core players for Goring (not the top tier though).
arnie, I enjoyed your post - no, I forgot to mention losing Howden as a benefit (and losing Hajek as the 6D is positive too). The bottom six IS better. I think Laf/Kakko can compensate for the loss of Buch. I did not like the size or length of the deals for Goodrow or Nemeth. But I actually like the players. I do not like the trade for Reaves. But a GM setting a third on fire isn't that big of a deal.
I couldn't agree more with this:
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The real decisions and they fate of the team in my opinion are still to come. Resign Mika? Trade a bunch of young guys for Eichel and let Mika leave? Who plays C on lines 2 and 3 if there are no trades? Chytil as C 2? Trade Strome?
I'm a big fan of Chytil. I think NYR should be ready to give him the 2C role. The Mika/Eichel question is the biggest one. I'm concerned and a bit upset with Drury. But I'll be irate if he does something ridiculous to get Eichel. Conversely, I'll actually be pretty happy if we get Eichel on the cheap.
it would be disingenuous to say Trotz didn't have a very direct impact on the performance of the team. Having said that, it means doing rankings on WAR alone is at best, deeply flawed, and at worst, almost meaningless.
If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"
You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.
What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."
it would be disingenuous to say Trotz didn't have a very direct impact on the performance of the team. Having said that, it means doing rankings on WAR alone is at best, deeply flawed, and at worst, almost meaningless.
If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"
You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.
What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."
all possibly true, maybe Jfresh WAR is like PFF ratings, it's just a data point I found interesting.
but admit I don't know the formula or if it's ever been tested for accuracy or relevance.
I think WAR may be a better way to compare individual players
But not sure aggregating WAR across teams is really meaningful because it leaves out so many other relevant variables (like coaching, player/system fit, etc.).
RE: I think WAR may be a better way to compare individual players
But not sure aggregating WAR across teams is really meaningful because it leaves out so many other relevant variables (like coaching, player/system fit, etc.).
I think they do it in baseball for projections (sum the players projected WAR) - but obviously baseball WAR is a more mature stat.
In comment 15317811 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
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There really wasn't a team in the East I think we would have matched up well with in a playoff type game/series, than ironically enough, the Canadiens.
Not that anyone will remember or care, but I said exactly this a couple of weeks ago, right down to naming MTL as best case, and what bceagles said above: results had we made SCP would have approximated what the team did against CAR last summer.
For sure there had to be a re-tooling, I'm just disappointed in the player selection Drury has chosen to implement it, aside from Goodrow, too one-dimensional, offensively challenged. I am hoping there is more, as long as it's not Eichel unless it's a package like we got for Buch.
This is part 2 of the Bradshear move, brought in to be our bug fighter then proceeded to lose every fight for the Rangers. You never tradebfor a goon, only Sather does that. Over and over again. But this is the moron owners chief advisor, the guy who ran the team for 20 year without a cup.
According to Carp, they are now discussing an extension. Darth Sather at work indeed.
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
Take Kreider off the PP and see what happens. You may not like the money he's getting, but he is an important cog -- on the ice and in the locker room.
Did any of you complainers actually watch the team last year? All we did was look great and skilled vs. crap teams (Buffalo, NJ and Philly)...while we had our asses handed to us most of the time, and couldn't score, vs. the actual good playoff teams (NYI, Boston, Pitt). While Washington was the one playoff team we actually played decent against, until Tom Wilson tooled our entire team like we were a HS team.
And that was all in the regular season. Did you watch the playoffs? I don't think so, seems like you complainers tuned out NHL once they started. Because the playoffs were ramped up exponentially and those good, tough teams were that much tougher and heavier to play against. Any Rangers fan who thinks that team as constructed last year would ever do damage in the playoffs, is clueless as a hockey fan.
This isn't 80's and 90's hockey, but you still can't be all skill. You need defined roles and hard to play against lines. Bottom 6 cannot just be a bunch of young skilled players, learning on the fly. That was fine during rebuilding. But now it is time for those young players to step up to top 2 lines, and for bottom 6 to get tough...in order to take the next step to make playoffs and have a chance once we get there.
Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves are all great additions to get to that goal. I hated the Buch trade like all of you complainers. But unfortunately with the cap, not to mention a flat cap, we couldn't have realistically kept him past this year. So instead of keeping him for one more season and losing him for nothing, they got something for him and opened up another top 6 wing spot for all of our young "studs" that all you complainers want to see playing more. It sucks, but it is the salary cap world of the NHL.
Zibanejad, Panarin, Lafreniere, Kakko, Strome and all the defensemen are pleased as punch that the Rangers signed Ryan Reaves. If you don't believe that, you don't understand the NHL.
for only two years, 2.5 mill AAV. Apparently Rangers weren't very interested, as that isn't a lot of money. That deal also makes the Goodrow deal look a lot worse IMO.
for only two years, 2.5 mill AAV. Apparently Rangers weren't very interested, as that isn't a lot of money. That deal also makes the Goodrow deal look a lot worse IMO.
I'd rather have Goodrow than Ritchie. But at those two deals, I'd have to choose Ritchie. Ritchie plays heavy and is tough to play against, similar to Goodrow...and but has real goal scoring ability.
NYR commitment to toughness reaches new level.
Reaves may be pound for pound the toughest player in the league. He is one dimensional though (unlike someone like Tom Wilson).
Will be interesting to see NYR vs WAS games this year.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
This has been an ominous off-season
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But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
Remember when the Penguins traded a first rounder for him?
This has been an ominous off-season
Just need to send Kravtsov and Nils to the Blues for Tarasenko at it will be as Sather-ian an offseason as we've ever seen
fuck all of this....
It's deja vu all over again
It's truly pathetic
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In comment 15317145 Anakim said:
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But I predicted that he'd be a Ranger once Gallant was hired. Gallant loves him + he's Tom Wilson's Kryptonite. It made too much sense for him not to be a Ranger.
He was never great at anything other than toughness, but he's one year removed from his career high in hits. so not sure I agree he's a shell of himself.
But to agree with your other point and highlight his lack of value (and the overpay) he was a healthy scratch for a few games in the playoffs (plus was suspended in the playoffs).
Remember when the Penguins traded a first rounder for him?
yes, lol, but to be fair they got a 2nd round pick back in the trade. And what's funny is I think they partly got Reaves because of Tom Wilson.
It just feels very amateur hour at every level. Talent traded for nothing, several now high paid goons brought in, buy outs that predictably get picked up by well run teams <24 hours …
Drury is thought highly in this league but just seems thoroughly
Unimpressive and anything but forward thinking
All of this nonsense because of one game.
It just feels very amateur hour at every level. Talent traded for nothing, several now high paid goons brought in, buy outs that predictably get picked up by well run teams <24 hours …
Drury is thought highly in this league but just seems thoroughly
Unimpressive and anything but forward thinking
This ship was headed in a beautiful direction...and now because the youngest team IN THE LEAGUE didn't make the playoffs and got pushed around by the Caps at the end of the season they are torpedoing it
So disheartening and so typical Rangers....what a shock we only win once every five decades
Drury has largely stayed out of the deep end with some of the crazy money and term thrown around. Nemeth, after seeing some of the other completely average DMen deals was a solid deal, and same with Goodrow. Hunt was a solid depth signing. The one stain is the return on Buch, but all sources have said the interest simply wasn’t there for a player that had to be signed long term, and it takes two to tango. An obvious priority was to give our young wings locked in top 6 time, along with maximum PP time. Blais will help reshape our bottom 6 as an energy guy that can play.
Tinnordi and now Reaves are certainly a product of the need for toughness, but Tinnordi is a league minimum deal that can be buried in the AHL for no cap hit, and I can’t see Reaves in the lineup every night. You better believe he’ll be out there opening night and in some of the other heavy games (Wsh, Boston, NYI), but I can’t see him being a lineup fixture. It’s a 3rd rounder yes, but we have two 2nds and two 4ths next year. We’ll be able to maneuver.
Just my .02
This isn’t forward thinking. Talent wins. That didn’t change - someone please tell Rangers management
Ryan Reaves is a goon...and a goon that was signed strictly because the team is over reacting to one opposing player.
And furthermore, a goon that is going to take up a roster spot that should be occupied by a player that can actually contribute in some phase of the game, and not just run around committing penalties.
Using Gorts and Slats strategy we accumulated a massive amount of talent and a group that despite being, THE YOUNGEST TEAM IN THE NHL, was in the thick of it for most of the season. The way they have worked this offseason is dinosaur thinking and the team is objectively worse than when the season ended
Way to go, lil' Jimmy
Perry can play a regular shift, and play both specials, even at his age. He's not a top 6 player anymore, but he's the epitome of sandpaper and he would allow your youth to play top 6 minutes.
When I thought of the Rangers adding grit that's the kind of move I had in mind. Maybe even Nate Thompson.
Not Reaves. who is so one dimensional he's utility is limited.
I like Goodrow though. I thought that was a good move. Goodrow played 3rd line on TBL, but he could play top 6 minutes on NYR if they need him to.
And he can win high pressure faceoffs.
“Two of the teams said, ‘We were going to put in a claim until this call. We’ll respect his career.'”
Again, I don’t think Reaves will be a regular in the lineup. Assuming Strome and Krav are in the top 6, the bottom 6 will be some combo of Kreider, Chytil, Goodrow, Blais, Rooney, and Reaves/Gauthier/Barron. Just a presence in the lineup that will make some teams think when he’s there.
by starting I mean start of the season
Panarin-Strome-Krav
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow
Blais-Rooney-Reaves (game 1 vs Wash)/Gauthier/Barron
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth-Nils
Panarin-Strome-Krav
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow
Blais-Rooney-Reaves (game 1 vs Wash)/Gauthier/Barron
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth-Nils
Agreed, think you nailed it for now. But I bet we see some more movement this offseason. And I would take Gauthier off, he isn't playing 4th line...with the new emphasis on bottom 6 having established roles. Maybe he gets another crack if some top 6 wingers have injuries. I would add Hunt in that spot instead of Gauthier. Hunt hits everything that moves.
This team had to get tougher and I don’t mean fighting. Everyone saw it last year. I hated losing Buchnevich but let’s face it. We had a lot of guys fighting for top six minutes but our bottom six were not ideally matched. We never had a good checking line that could play the opponents top line. How many times did the rangers give up crucial goals in the last minute of period last year.
And most importantly. Last years team was NOT a team that would thrive in the playoffs.
Let’s see what happens rest. Of offseason.
Panarin-Strome-Krav
Kreider-Chytil-Goodrow
Blais-Rooney-Reaves (game 1 vs Wash)/Gauthier/Barron
Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth-Nils
When you map it out like that, the team looks strong.
This off-season has been atrocious.
I like the team as it stands. They’re putting a lot on the shoulders of Kakko and Kravy. If Uncle Larry’s report about the Rangers offer for Eichel is true, that’s a bit rich for my blood. I probably wouldn’t do that.
I like the team as it stands. They’re putting a lot on the shoulders of Kakko and Kravy. If Uncle Larry’s report about the Rangers offer for Eichel is true, that’s a bit rich for my blood. I probably wouldn’t do that.
Largely agree. Wouldn't stress out over a 13F and would rather have Reaves than Howden.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
But trading Buchnevich... I have no optimistic opinion on that move. That was just dumb, even if you do get Eichel and needed the space.
btw - Are you getting Eichel? I keep hearing Strome to Ottawa so you can get him but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
But trading Buchnevich... I have no optimistic opinion on that move. That was just dumb, even if you do get Eichel and needed the space.
btw - Are you getting Eichel? I keep hearing Strome to Ottawa so you can get him but that doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
We can get Eichel even without trading Strome. We have enough cap space to absorb him and to re-sign Igor.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
aren't term and length the same thing?
the Nemeth signing makes sense if you plan to contend, even if he's a healthy scratch every game....until he's not. I think you saw last year the drop off from NHL caliber D to non-NHL caliber D is huge so when someone is injured - and someone will be injured depth is important. Nemeth is at worst a legit bottom pair D minutes eater.
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like are the Gallant hiring and the Howden trade. Trading for Goodrow was good in a vacuum, but I don't like the term and I absolutely hate the length. Nemeth is okay and the money is fine, but again, not sure why we're going 3 years. We don't need him to block Matt Robertson, Zac Jones, Tarmo Reunanen, etc. Buch trade was an absolute disaster and even if Sammy Blais becomes something of value you won't be able to convince me that Buch wasn't traded for pennies on the dollar.
Tinordi...whatever He better not dress unless injuries hit. No idea who Dryden Hunt is. McKegg? AHL fodder. I'm almost certain Reaves could've been had for a lower draft pick.
aren't term and length the same thing?
the Nemeth signing makes sense if you plan to contend, even if he's a healthy scratch every game....until he's not. I think you saw last year the drop off from NHL caliber D to non-NHL caliber D is huge so when someone is injured - and someone will be injured depth is important. Nemeth is at worst a legit bottom pair D minutes eater.
I always thought term meant money and length meant the years. Combine the two and it's AAV.
Like what is the term of the Goodrow deal?
6 years.
Terms though with an s at the end I would think includes the money = 6 years @3.6M AAV
that's about as deep as I plan to get today.
I think we're overpaying Goodrow a bit and I don't think he's worth a six-year deal
This is hilarious.
Reaves is the only goon though? Blais, Goodrow, Nemeth and Hunt are all decent hockey players.
Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.
IF, their youth develops as expected.
The only loss is Buchnevich.
Unless you count players like Blackwell or Brendan Smith or Brett Howden as losses.
The Rangers are fortifying their bottom 6 to protect their top 6. And they're doing it (mostly) with guys can play.
Fans will love Goodrow and Blais.
And you'll love Reaves too I think when he's pressed into action.
And the off-season isn't over, but the NYR are not getting worse IMO nor are they worse from the end of last year.
And, again, they dumped their best two-way player for essentially nothing.
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
Hopefully Kreider is gone by then. Brennan has also played some RW before.
He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.
His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.
If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)
I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.
And I like Goodrow and am lukewarm on Nemeth
The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
yea Goodrow was a massive overpay. Would have rather had Coleman for 1.3 mil more. He can pot you 20 goals.
How is Blais a fringe fourth liner? 13 pts in 40 and 15 in 36 is fine. He has a good shot too. Howden's 7 pts in 42 games on the other hand.
Hunt has good metrics. He has the potential to become a cheap Goodrow type player.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.
His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.
If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)
I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.
And I like Goodrow and am lukewarm on Nemeth
Tinordi is the 7th D. I'm lukewarm on Nemeth too. he failed the eye test for Wings and Avs fans. But his analytics are good so not sure.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
GMs are so stupid. Buch should have returned a 1st + sami at least. Look at what Reinhart and Risto got. GMs value toughness and draft pedigree too much versus what a player actually is.
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Jesus Christ what a shitshow
Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.
Wait… there’s was pro-Quinn brigade? Wow. Imagine if he actually accomplished something.
How is the team looking worse? You don’t like the defensive pairings or the top three lines? I liked Pavel Buchnevich, but people are acting like he was Pavel Datsyuk. Get a grip folks. Goodrow played the third line on a team infinitely better than this one, but it’s a problem that he’s here now? I also thought his contract was too much, but even third liners are getting ridiculous money on the open market. They still have all of the youngsters that no one wanted to trade, including immense depth on the blue line.
No Ranger fan would’ve fired Gorton or JD. But this idea that this has become a cratered wreck is hard to take seriously.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
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I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
Wouldn't have fired JD or Gorton but Gorton wasn't perfect. McDonagh trade, Lias Andersson, kreider contract, Trouba contract, giving Mika a 5 year deal instead of 7-8, Brendan Smith, icing guys like Bitetto, Jack Johnson
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I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
DAL was apparently offering us 1st + Robertson for him.
If you were excited about the young talent in the organization I don't see why that would have changed in the offseason. They're all still here. If Drury went out and sent Kakko or Laf to Buffalo for Eichel I'd join right in and go nuts. But it seems like he's actually waited that one out pretty well and he's letting Buffalo slowly lose their leverage.
The Buchnevich trade was unfortunate, but I think it's separate from this grit movement. I mentioned I would have just waited it out and tried to wait for a better offer. But I think teams knew the Rangers didn't have the leverage given the cap and the glut of wingers. You'd probably swap out Kreider for Buchnevich if you could have a re-do there. But that was Gorton's call
The plan got altered by winning the lotto for Laf. They wouldnt have signed Kreider knowing that. Having 3 staright number 1 picks that are all top 6 wings, all NHL at the same time pushed a guy Like Buch who by the time he developed was ready to get paid off the roster.
If we didnt sign Kreider, didnt land Laf and Buch didnt step up as an all around player this year we would have gone into FA needing to over pay for a top 6 wing.
Huh?? They haven’t gotten rid of any of these young players… not a single one. As it currently stands, they’re putting even MORE on the plate of Kakko and Kravy. They’re damn near handing a spot to Lundqvist. The Nemeth contract won’t keep any of the other young blue liners from coming up if they earn it. I’m not sure bringing in Goodrow and a collection of short term fourth liners signals a change of direction in the franchise.
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@JFreshHockey
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2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
If he does little more than bookending the season with ass-kickings of Wilson, it'd almost be worth it for me.
And that was all in the regular season. Did you watch the playoffs? I don't think so, seems like you complainers tuned out NHL once they started. Because the playoffs were ramped up exponentially and those good, tough teams were that much tougher and heavier to play against. Any Rangers fan who thinks that team as constructed last year would ever do damage in the playoffs, is clueless as a hockey fan.
This isn't 80's and 90's hockey, but you still can't be all skill. You need defined roles and hard to play against lines. Bottom 6 cannot just be a bunch of young skilled players, learning on the fly. That was fine during rebuilding. But now it is time for those young players to step up to top 2 lines, and for bottom 6 to get tough...in order to take the next step to make playoffs and have a chance once we get there.
Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves are all great additions to get to that goal. I hated the Buch trade like all of you complainers. But unfortunately with the cap, not to mention a flat cap, we couldn't have realistically kept him past this year. So instead of keeping him for one more season and losing him for nothing, they got something for him and opened up another top 6 wing spot for all of our young "studs" that all you complainers want to see playing more. It sucks, but it is the salary cap world of the NHL.
What Drury is doing ought to be a fireable offense. He's trading off elite skill for sluggishly slow grinders and committing 2-$3M a pop for them. The Goodrow signing and Buch trade are both terrible for different reasons.
We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.
Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.
We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.
Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.
How does Buch - a 26 year old top-line winger block anyone? He was our 2nd-3rd best PP forward last season and our best PK. The kids need to earn the time. Handing them top line minutes because of where they are drafted is a recipe for letdown. NYR were not strapped for cash and could have easily afforded Buch's 5.8. He's still a bargain and still getting better. You probably can't afford him if you're handing out $3M pers to 30 year old grinders who might stumble into 6 goals per seasons.
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JFresh
@JFreshHockey
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2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?
Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.
So you want Tom Wilson, lol
in all seriousness that's why the players who are physical and skilled are treated like unicorns. "old time hockey" isn't a cliche for nothing.
they don't make Gordie Howe's any more (and obviously the game has changed.)
I think Patrice Bergeron is a decent example, I'd say Marchand but his name nauseates me, but being fair he is too. Ovie. I'd put Brendan Gallagher in this class. And it doesn't have to be an agitator per se, but a player who is willing to sacrifice himself for the play, every play and can put the puck in the net consistently. Not saying this list is limited to these few players, but it is limited.
Peter Forsberg epitomized this IMO.
but most players just don't have that combination of physicality and skill so you build your team to have both and players who "stay in their lane".
And I don't think Sammy Blais is talent-less. He's an upgrade over the 4th line you had last year IMO.
Amen to this.
I definitely agree pj, that our bottom 6 is way more rounded, especially after watching the physicality in the playoffs. There really wasn't a team in the East I think we would have matched up well with in a playoff type game/series, than ironically enough, the Canadiens.
I think they hurt the ceiling of this team, though. More importantly, I think the emphasis on grit is concerning than any individual move. The Rangers doing better this year doesn't prove Drury right. He should have realized this team was in a good spot the next two years and skated off the organic growth rather than going gritty.
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JFresh
@JFreshHockey
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2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol
So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?
Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.
lol. I haven't put in the effort to really understand WAR in hockey and decide if it's meaningful, but some of the projections are dubious.
that said, maybe the philosophy is sound but the results aren't if you know what I mean.
One example I gave for his prior version related to NYI is how Trotz teams tend to over-perform (or perform to their expectations however you want to view it).
What I mean is NYI went from 80 points to 103 points when they added Trotz and lost Tavares.
Am I right on that? Was there another significant change beyond just Trotz and current player improvement?
They signed Nemeth to partner on the 3rd pair with Lundkvist? On paper seems to make sense big experienced stay at home LD to partner with a kid from the same country coming over for the first time.
They held on to all of the kids at the NHL and AHL level. How are they not a better team than last year? Was the price of the bottom of the roster makeover too expensive? Seems most people here think so.
The real decisions and they fate of the team in my opinion are still to come. Resign Mika? Trade a bunch of young guys for Eichel and let Mika leave? Who plays C on lines 2 and 3 if there are no trades? Chytil as C 2? Trade Strome?
The Rangers need their David DeBusschere or Butch Goring trade. They need to find the guy who fits perfectly and makes it all work. Is that Eichel? Even if it is the price is going to hurt. The Knicks traded a HOFer for DeBusschere. The Islanders traded two of their popular core players for Goring (not the top tier though).
I couldn't agree more with this:
I'm a big fan of Chytil. I think NYR should be ready to give him the 2C role. The Mika/Eichel question is the biggest one. I'm concerned and a bit upset with Drury. But I'll be irate if he does something ridiculous to get Eichel. Conversely, I'll actually be pretty happy if we get Eichel on the cheap.
If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"
You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.
What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."
If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"
You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.
What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."
all possibly true, maybe Jfresh WAR is like PFF ratings, it's just a data point I found interesting.
but admit I don't know the formula or if it's ever been tested for accuracy or relevance.
I think they do it in baseball for projections (sum the players projected WAR) - but obviously baseball WAR is a more mature stat.
For sure there had to be a re-tooling, I'm just disappointed in the player selection Drury has chosen to implement it, aside from Goodrow, too one-dimensional, offensively challenged. I am hoping there is more, as long as it's not Eichel unless it's a package like we got for Buch.
According to Carp, they are now discussing an extension. Darth Sather at work indeed.
Yup, if you like him for 1 year, you'll love him for 2.
$1.75MM extension for 22/23 - ( New Window )
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I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.
But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
Take Kreider off the PP and see what happens. You may not like the money he's getting, but he is an important cog -- on the ice and in the locker room.
Perhaps, because other teams were after him, too? So you sweeten the pot to get him.
This off-season has been atrocious.
They have replaced their bottom six. What is atrocious? Buchnevich was gone when Gorton re-signed Kreider.
And that was all in the regular season. Did you watch the playoffs? I don't think so, seems like you complainers tuned out NHL once they started. Because the playoffs were ramped up exponentially and those good, tough teams were that much tougher and heavier to play against. Any Rangers fan who thinks that team as constructed last year would ever do damage in the playoffs, is clueless as a hockey fan.
This isn't 80's and 90's hockey, but you still can't be all skill. You need defined roles and hard to play against lines. Bottom 6 cannot just be a bunch of young skilled players, learning on the fly. That was fine during rebuilding. But now it is time for those young players to step up to top 2 lines, and for bottom 6 to get tough...in order to take the next step to make playoffs and have a chance once we get there.
Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves are all great additions to get to that goal. I hated the Buch trade like all of you complainers. But unfortunately with the cap, not to mention a flat cap, we couldn't have realistically kept him past this year. So instead of keeping him for one more season and losing him for nothing, they got something for him and opened up another top 6 wing spot for all of our young "studs" that all you complainers want to see playing more. It sucks, but it is the salary cap world of the NHL.
Agreed.
Goodrow is a better player.
Look at what Blake Coleman was paid.