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NFT: NY Rangers Acquire Ryan Reaves

pjcas18 : 7/29/2021 10:05 pm
Renaud Lavoie
@renlavoietva
·
2m
Ryan Reaves just been traded to the @NYRangers
@GoldenKnights


For a 3rd round pick
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RE: this is reminding me a lot of 1996  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15317534 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Neil Smith got panicky after the Flyers swept the Rangers in the 1995 playoffs and went out and got a bunch of goons - Marty McSorley, Shane Churla, Dan Lacroix, Ulf Samuelsson, et al. Didn't work then, not expecting it to work now.


Reaves is the only goon though? Blais, Goodrow, Nemeth and Hunt are all decent hockey players.
RE: I fucking hate everything about this offseason  
vonritz : 7/30/2021 9:48 am : link
In comment 15317158 redbeard said:
Quote:
Jesus Christ what a shitshow


Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.
The Rangers  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 9:52 am : link
are not worse today than the end of last year.

IF, their youth develops as expected.

The only loss is Buchnevich.

Unless you count players like Blackwell or Brendan Smith or Brett Howden as losses.

The Rangers are fortifying their bottom 6 to protect their top 6. And they're doing it (mostly) with guys can play.

Fans will love Goodrow and Blais.

And you'll love Reaves too I think when he's pressed into action.

And the off-season isn't over, but the NYR are not getting worse IMO nor are they worse from the end of last year.
by any objective measure,Blais is not a good hockey player  
Greg from LI : 7/30/2021 9:59 am : link
Same for Reaves. Same for Tinordi. Hunt has some interesting stats, but to date has been a fringe NHL player. Goodrow is OK, but you can find guys like him for less money.

And, again, they dumped their best two-way player for essentially nothing.
They lost...  
vonritz : 7/30/2021 10:10 am : link
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.

The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".
RE: They lost...  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:15 am : link
In comment 15317582 vonritz said:
Quote:
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.

The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".


Hopefully Kreider is gone by then. Brennan has also played some RW before.
Blais  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 10:20 am : link
is most likely a 4th liner. I'd rather have him than Di Guisseppee or Howden or whoever else.

He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.

His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.

If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)

I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.

And I like Goodrow and am lukewarm on Nemeth
RE: They lost...  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:22 am : link
In comment 15317582 vonritz said:
Quote:
they're best player from last year for scraps. Goodrow was a massive overpayment. A 3rd for Reaves is a poor use of resources. The rest of the bottom six guys they acquired are fringe 4th liners at best. We didn't draft bpa in the 1st and went with a kid who, even 3 years from now, will be no better than 4th LW on the depth chart.

The only way you can say the team improved is if you use a a lot of "ifs".


yea Goodrow was a massive overpay. Would have rather had Coleman for 1.3 mil more. He can pot you 20 goals.

How is Blais a fringe fourth liner? 13 pts in 40 and 15 in 36 is fine. He has a good shot too. Howden's 7 pts in 42 games on the other hand.

Hunt has good metrics. He has the potential to become a cheap Goodrow type player.
That's a good point Greg  
arniefez : 7/30/2021 10:22 am : link
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.
RE: Blais  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:23 am : link
In comment 15317593 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
is most likely a 4th liner. I'd rather have him than Di Guisseppee or Howden or whoever else.

He is in the last year of his contract, and it's not a big one.

His $1.5M even if he's in the press box, makes the Rangers better than before.

If I'm a Rangers fan I am not hand wringing over Blais (you can gripe about the return for Buchnevich in a vacuum, but I'm not a Blais hater) or even Reaves or Tinordi (900k)

I do think those guys are upgrades, to the bottom of the roster.

And I like Goodrow and am lukewarm on Nemeth


Tinordi is the 7th D. I'm lukewarm on Nemeth too. he failed the eye test for Wings and Avs fans. But his analytics are good so not sure.
RE: That's a good point Greg  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15317595 arniefez said:
Quote:
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.


GMs are so stupid. Buch should have returned a 1st + sami at least. Look at what Reinhart and Risto got. GMs value toughness and draft pedigree too much versus what a player actually is.
RE: RE: I fucking hate everything about this offseason  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/30/2021 10:29 am : link
In comment 15317549 vonritz said:
Quote:
In comment 15317158 redbeard said:


Quote:


Jesus Christ what a shitshow



Yup. The anti Quinn/Gorton brigade is getting exactly what they wanted and the team is looking worse in the process. This off-season has been a complete misuse of team resources.


Wait… there’s was pro-Quinn brigade? Wow. Imagine if he actually accomplished something.

How is the team looking worse? You don’t like the defensive pairings or the top three lines? I liked Pavel Buchnevich, but people are acting like he was Pavel Datsyuk. Get a grip folks. Goodrow played the third line on a team infinitely better than this one, but it’s a problem that he’s here now? I also thought his contract was too much, but even third liners are getting ridiculous money on the open market. They still have all of the youngsters that no one wanted to trade, including immense depth on the blue line.

No Ranger fan would’ve fired Gorton or JD. But this idea that this has become a cratered wreck is hard to take seriously.
RE: That's a good point Greg  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/30/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15317595 arniefez said:
Quote:
I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.


I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.
RE: RE: That's a good point Greg  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15317611 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317595 arniefez said:


Quote:


I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.



I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.


Wouldn't have fired JD or Gorton but Gorton wasn't perfect. McDonagh trade, Lias Andersson, kreider contract, Trouba contract, giving Mika a 5 year deal instead of 7-8, Brendan Smith, icing guys like Bitetto, Jack Johnson
RE: RE: That's a good point Greg  
drake88 : 7/30/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15317611 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317595 arniefez said:


Quote:


I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.



I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.


DAL was apparently offering us 1st + Robertson for him.
Nemeth is fine as a third pairing defenseman  
Greg from LI : 7/30/2021 10:38 am : link
But why give a guy like that the kind of contract they did?
I actually don't mind this move at all  
Kyle in NY : 7/30/2021 10:47 am : link
Reaves is legitimately the toughest guy in the league and he can at least play a bit. They didn't go out and sign John Scott 2.0. He's the 12th/13th forward and can fill a role. And he's on a one year contract, pretty low impact as far as assets spent. He's also a good guy to have in the locker room by all accounts.

If you were excited about the young talent in the organization I don't see why that would have changed in the offseason. They're all still here. If Drury went out and sent Kakko or Laf to Buffalo for Eichel I'd join right in and go nuts. But it seems like he's actually waited that one out pretty well and he's letting Buffalo slowly lose their leverage.

The Buchnevich trade was unfortunate, but I think it's separate from this grit movement. I mentioned I would have just waited it out and tried to wait for a better offer. But I think teams knew the Rangers didn't have the leverage given the cap and the glut of wingers. You'd probably swap out Kreider for Buchnevich if you could have a re-do there. But that was Gorton's call
Drury Is Overmatched  
Jeffrey : 7/30/2021 10:54 am : link
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.
RE: Drury Is Overmatched  
Dankbeerman : 7/30/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15317626 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.


The plan got altered by winning the lotto for Laf. They wouldnt have signed Kreider knowing that. Having 3 staright number 1 picks that are all top 6 wings, all NHL at the same time pushed a guy Like Buch who by the time he developed was ready to get paid off the roster.

If we didnt sign Kreider, didnt land Laf and Buch didnt step up as an all around player this year we would have gone into FA needing to over pay for a top 6 wing.
RE: Drury Is Overmatched  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 7/30/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15317626 Jeffrey said:
Quote:
Everything is reactive. Rangers had a plan and were rebuilding with youth. Patience wore out because they missed the playoffs this year when they were placed in the toughest division in hockey and suffered some injury setbacks. A goon takes out a Ranger player and the race is on to change the direction of the franchise. It's a shame. I hope I am wrong but getting rid of Pavel after he finally took the major step for a minimal return is just not justifiable. Would rather have held him at least to the winter trading deadline and then shop him out for more assets.


Huh?? They haven’t gotten rid of any of these young players… not a single one. As it currently stands, they’re putting even MORE on the plate of Kakko and Kravy. They’re damn near handing a spot to Lundqvist. The Nemeth contract won’t keep any of the other young blue liners from coming up if they earn it. I’m not sure bringing in Goodrow and a collection of short term fourth liners signals a change of direction in the franchise.
lol  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 11:31 am : link
it's like a wrestling or UFC promo
link - ( New Window )
Jfresh adjustments to WAR  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 11:37 am : link
Quote:
JFresh
@JFreshHockey
·
2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol


RE: lol  
Mad Mike : 7/30/2021 11:41 am : link
In comment 15317649 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
it's like a wrestling or UFC promo link - ( New Window )

If he does little more than bookending the season with ass-kickings of Wilson, it'd almost be worth it for me.
Some people will bitch about anything...  
BC Eagles94 : 7/30/2021 11:43 am : link
Did any of you complainers actually watch the team last year? All we did was look great and skilled vs. crap teams (Buffalo, NJ and Philly)...while we had our asses handed to us most of the time, and couldn't score, vs. the actual good playoff teams (NYI, Boston, Pitt). While Washington was the one playoff team we actually played decent against, until Tom Wilson tooled our entire team like we were a HS team.

And that was all in the regular season. Did you watch the playoffs? I don't think so, seems like you complainers tuned out NHL once they started. Because the playoffs were ramped up exponentially and those good, tough teams were that much tougher and heavier to play against. Any Rangers fan who thinks that team as constructed last year would ever do damage in the playoffs, is clueless as a hockey fan.

This isn't 80's and 90's hockey, but you still can't be all skill. You need defined roles and hard to play against lines. Bottom 6 cannot just be a bunch of young skilled players, learning on the fly. That was fine during rebuilding. But now it is time for those young players to step up to top 2 lines, and for bottom 6 to get tough...in order to take the next step to make playoffs and have a chance once we get there.

Goodrow, Blais, and Reaves are all great additions to get to that goal. I hated the Buch trade like all of you complainers. But unfortunately with the cap, not to mention a flat cap, we couldn't have realistically kept him past this year. So instead of keeping him for one more season and losing him for nothing, they got something for him and opened up another top 6 wing spot for all of our young "studs" that all you complainers want to see playing more. It sucks, but it is the salary cap world of the NHL.
You want tough guys?  
Greg from LI : 7/30/2021 11:52 am : link
Fine. Get some who can actually play hockey unlike humps like Reaves and Blais.
Here is why the Drury plan is horrible...  
PwndPapi : 7/30/2021 12:08 pm : link
You don't sign 3rd and 4th liners to big deals. You also don't trade elite first-line 60+ pt wings for them. You acquire them in the draft as most teams due. Low-skill, lower ceiling players who aren't going to skate circles around the opposition litter rounds 4+. That's where other organizations typically acquire bottom-6 types. Those guys are replaceable. Top 6 forwards aren't and cost top dollar in FA even if you're fortunate to stumble into a situation where another dumb organization is giving them up.

What Drury is doing ought to be a fireable offense. He's trading off elite skill for sluggishly slow grinders and committing 2-$3M a pop for them. The Goodrow signing and Buch trade are both terrible for different reasons.
How about we let  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 7/30/2021 12:16 pm : link
the team play first before declaring we fire a GM that hasn't even led a season. We have a ton of cap room which if held onto, would be pretty valuable during the season, either for long term assets, or rentals depending on where we are.

We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.

Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.
RE: How about we let  
PwndPapi : 7/30/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15317697 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
the team play first before declaring we fire a GM that hasn't even led a season. We have a ton of cap room which if held onto, would be pretty valuable during the season, either for long term assets, or rentals depending on where we are.

We can keep ripping him for Buch, but multiple beats have now come out and said the market simply wasn't there for him, and it takes two to trade. It was also clear, that it was a priority to give the kids top 6 minutes, as well as the majority of PP time. Buch stood in the way of that, and was our most expendable winger, and they wanted to do it now.

Goodrow is an absolutely fine contract at his AAV, especially when you look at what the money others got. The term is a little long, but we did that to keep the AAV down. As I've shown previously, a buyout calculator after 4 seasons is extremely palatable for the Rangers if it comes to that, or I'm sure he can be easily moved with an asset. Same goes for Nemeth when you look at what other bottom pairing defenders got, he's a veteran stay at home partner for Nils as he acclimates to the league.


How does Buch - a 26 year old top-line winger block anyone? He was our 2nd-3rd best PP forward last season and our best PK. The kids need to earn the time. Handing them top line minutes because of where they are drafted is a recipe for letdown. NYR were not strapped for cash and could have easily afforded Buch's 5.8. He's still a bargain and still getting better. You probably can't afford him if you're handing out $3M pers to 30 year old grinders who might stumble into 6 goals per seasons.
You can't convince me that a team wouldn't have given up more  
Greg from LI : 7/30/2021 12:28 pm : link
for Buchnevich at the deadline than the garbage STL gave up.
RE: Jfresh adjustments to WAR  
Mike from Ohio : 7/30/2021 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15317657 pjcas18 said:
Quote:


Quote:


JFresh
@JFreshHockey
·
2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol






So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?

Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.
That guy thinks  
PwndPapi : 7/30/2021 12:38 pm : link
SEA is a 99 pt team in its inaugural season? Am I reading that right?
RE: You want tough guys?  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 12:40 pm : link
In comment 15317675 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Fine. Get some who can actually play hockey unlike humps like Reaves and Blais.


So you want Tom Wilson, lol

in all seriousness that's why the players who are physical and skilled are treated like unicorns. "old time hockey" isn't a cliche for nothing.

they don't make Gordie Howe's any more (and obviously the game has changed.)

I think Patrice Bergeron is a decent example, I'd say Marchand but his name nauseates me, but being fair he is too. Ovie. I'd put Brendan Gallagher in this class. And it doesn't have to be an agitator per se, but a player who is willing to sacrifice himself for the play, every play and can put the puck in the net consistently. Not saying this list is limited to these few players, but it is limited.

Peter Forsberg epitomized this IMO.

but most players just don't have that combination of physicality and skill so you build your team to have both and players who "stay in their lane".

And I don't think Sammy Blais is talent-less. He's an upgrade over the 4th line you had last year IMO.

RE: You can't convince me that a team wouldn't have given up more  
Jeffrey : 7/30/2021 12:59 pm : link
In comment 15317710 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
for Buchnevich at the deadline than the garbage STL gave up.


Amen to this.
Love all the doubters  
bluesince56 : 7/30/2021 1:12 pm : link
Having even play one game yet and many are assuming they are worse now then last year. Remind me. How many playoff appearances have they had in four years? If you closely followed the playoffs last season it was very very physical. Rangers would have been out right away like 2020.
Reaves is not only a good guy but a very hard checker, team player and  
gtt350 : 7/30/2021 1:30 pm : link
definitely not a goon, He basically goes out and calms things down if the other team is getting chippy
Yeah, I'm definitely in the mode to  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 7/30/2021 2:02 pm : link
see what happens with the cap space we have for this year, and then make a judgment. While we all would have loved to have gotten a 1st+ for Buch, it wasn't out there, and we didn't want to block the kids. Is what it is, I like adding Goodrow to the group, and think Nemeth is a stellar partner for Nils. Hunt had solid advanced stats for in his time with a poor team in the Coyotes, and think he can open some eyes in a 4th line role every now and then.

I definitely agree pj, that our bottom 6 is way more rounded, especially after watching the physicality in the playoffs. There really wasn't a team in the East I think we would have matched up well with in a playoff type game/series, than ironically enough, the Canadiens.
...  
BrettNYG10 : 7/30/2021 2:10 pm : link
The Rangers are likely going to make the playoffs because of the growth of the young players, Panarin not missing games due to Putin, Zibanejad not starting off poorly due to COVID, the reversion to the typical playoff format, and going from an average (and some think bad) coach to a good coach.

I think they hurt the ceiling of this team, though. More importantly, I think the emphasis on grit is concerning than any individual move. The Rangers doing better this year doesn't prove Drury right. He should have realized this team was in a good spot the next two years and skated off the organic growth rather than going gritty.
NYR agree to terms with F IB Hump  
PwndPapi : 7/30/2021 2:18 pm : link
3 yrs, $2.5M per. Seen here with Pitt last season. Traditional and gritty stay-at-home forward that can deliver a crushing "slow down" to opposing scorers entering the defensive zone. In the mold that Druvy highly covets.



RE: RE: Jfresh adjustments to WAR  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15317713 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15317657 pjcas18 said:


Quote:




Quote:


JFresh
@JFreshHockey
·
2m
I made some big adjustments in the past few days and I'm mostly happy with the results. I think I just have to declare defeat on the Flyers/Rangers thing lol








So the Islanders shouldn't really be competitive this year?

Sometimes you have to look at your model's output, see it is non-sensical, and then adjust your model. Sort of ridiculous to publish that as anything aside from a joke.


lol. I haven't put in the effort to really understand WAR in hockey and decide if it's meaningful, but some of the projections are dubious.

that said, maybe the philosophy is sound but the results aren't if you know what I mean.

One example I gave for his prior version related to NYI is how Trotz teams tend to over-perform (or perform to their expectations however you want to view it).

What I mean is NYI went from 80 points to 103 points when they added Trotz and lost Tavares.

Am I right on that? Was there another significant change beyond just Trotz and current player improvement?
Sather is back  
PaulN : 7/30/2021 3:05 pm : link
This is part 2 of the Bradshear move, brought in to be our bug fighter then proceeded to lose every fight for the Rangers. You never tradebfor a goon, only Sather does that. Over and over again. But this is the moron owners chief advisor, the guy who ran the team for 20 year without a cup.
BrettNYG10  
arniefez : 7/30/2021 3:28 pm : link
No sarcasm. I come in peace. From the top 9 They subtracted Buchnevich and added Goodrow. From the 4th line they subtracted Howden and added Blais and Reeves.

They signed Nemeth to partner on the 3rd pair with Lundkvist? On paper seems to make sense big experienced stay at home LD to partner with a kid from the same country coming over for the first time.

They held on to all of the kids at the NHL and AHL level. How are they not a better team than last year? Was the price of the bottom of the roster makeover too expensive? Seems most people here think so.

The real decisions and they fate of the team in my opinion are still to come. Resign Mika? Trade a bunch of young guys for Eichel and let Mika leave? Who plays C on lines 2 and 3 if there are no trades? Chytil as C 2? Trade Strome?

The Rangers need their David DeBusschere or Butch Goring trade. They need to find the guy who fits perfectly and makes it all work. Is that Eichel? Even if it is the price is going to hurt. The Knicks traded a HOFer for DeBusschere. The Islanders traded two of their popular core players for Goring (not the top tier though).
....  
BrettNYG10 : 7/30/2021 3:39 pm : link
arnie, I enjoyed your post - no, I forgot to mention losing Howden as a benefit (and losing Hajek as the 6D is positive too). The bottom six IS better. I think Laf/Kakko can compensate for the loss of Buch. I did not like the size or length of the deals for Goodrow or Nemeth. But I actually like the players. I do not like the trade for Reaves. But a GM setting a third on fire isn't that big of a deal.

I couldn't agree more with this:

Quote:
The real decisions and they fate of the team in my opinion are still to come. Resign Mika? Trade a bunch of young guys for Eichel and let Mika leave? Who plays C on lines 2 and 3 if there are no trades? Chytil as C 2? Trade Strome?


I'm a big fan of Chytil. I think NYR should be ready to give him the 2C role. The Mika/Eichel question is the biggest one. I'm concerned and a bit upset with Drury. But I'll be irate if he does something ridiculous to get Eichel. Conversely, I'll actually be pretty happy if we get Eichel on the cheap.
To an extent I agree with you  
Mike from Ohio : 7/30/2021 3:43 pm : link
it would be disingenuous to say Trotz didn't have a very direct impact on the performance of the team. Having said that, it means doing rankings on WAR alone is at best, deeply flawed, and at worst, almost meaningless.

If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"

You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.

What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."
RE: To an extent I agree with you  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 3:58 pm : link
In comment 15317943 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
it would be disingenuous to say Trotz didn't have a very direct impact on the performance of the team. Having said that, it means doing rankings on WAR alone is at best, deeply flawed, and at worst, almost meaningless.

If a coach can alter the performance of a team to that extent, what is the point of a rating metric that excludes that variable? It's like one of those bar arguments when you hear "take X, Y and Z players away from the team and what do they have?"

You can probably replace that WAR rating system with "number of goals scored" and see a similar correlation to actual standings.

What I took away from that analysis was "WAR doesn't tell you much."


all possibly true, maybe Jfresh WAR is like PFF ratings, it's just a data point I found interesting.

but admit I don't know the formula or if it's ever been tested for accuracy or relevance.
I think WAR may be a better way to compare individual players  
Mike from Ohio : 7/30/2021 4:05 pm : link
But not sure aggregating WAR across teams is really meaningful because it leaves out so many other relevant variables (like coaching, player/system fit, etc.).
RE: I think WAR may be a better way to compare individual players  
pjcas18 : 7/30/2021 4:09 pm : link
In comment 15317966 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
But not sure aggregating WAR across teams is really meaningful because it leaves out so many other relevant variables (like coaching, player/system fit, etc.).


I think they do it in baseball for projections (sum the players projected WAR) - but obviously baseball WAR is a more mature stat.
RE: Yeah, I'm definitely in the mode to  
ColHowPepper : 7/30/2021 4:57 pm : link
In comment 15317811 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
There really wasn't a team in the East I think we would have matched up well with in a playoff type game/series, than ironically enough, the Canadiens.
Not that anyone will remember or care, but I said exactly this a couple of weeks ago, right down to naming MTL as best case, and what bceagles said above: results had we made SCP would have approximated what the team did against CAR last summer.

For sure there had to be a re-tooling, I'm just disappointed in the player selection Drury has chosen to implement it, aside from Goodrow, too one-dimensional, offensively challenged. I am hoping there is more, as long as it's not Eichel unless it's a package like we got for Buch.
RE: Sather is back  
vonritz : 7/30/2021 5:16 pm : link
In comment 15317886 PaulN said:
Quote:
This is part 2 of the Bradshear move, brought in to be our bug fighter then proceeded to lose every fight for the Rangers. You never tradebfor a goon, only Sather does that. Over and over again. But this is the moron owners chief advisor, the guy who ran the team for 20 year without a cup.


According to Carp, they are now discussing an extension. Darth Sather at work indeed.
RE: RE: Sather is back  
Mad Mike : 7/30/2021 8:09 pm : link
In comment 15318039 vonritz said:
Quote:
According to Carp, they are now discussing an extension. Darth Sather at work indeed.

Yup, if you like him for 1 year, you'll love him for 2.
$1.75MM extension for 22/23 - ( New Window )
RE: RE: That's a good point Greg  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 7/31/2021 9:49 am : link
In comment 15317611 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317595 arniefez said:


Quote:


I've been happy that they are trying to change the bottom six with so many skill players in the top six. But listening to the people on this thread that know the league way better than I do now I'm a lot less happy.

But I do understand the Buchnevich trade was a give away because of the cap. So few teams have cap space that it's a buyers market for salary dumps. Yes the return was pennies on the dollar but it shows how many bad choices the Rangers have made with contracts Kreider, Trouba, etc that forced them to into this situation.



I love Krieds as much as anyone, but it’s a bad contract now. No doubt. There were certainly fans who said it at the time.


Take Kreider off the PP and see what happens. You may not like the money he's getting, but he is an important cog -- on the ice and in the locker room.
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