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NFT: Knicks Talk: Draft Recap

Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 8:08 am
Well, don't think that went in the direction anyone expected.

After spending weeks trying to trade up, and apparently getting close with a couple teams (definitely at least the Pacers?), the Knicks traded both 19 and 21, and picked up a future 1st, 2nd, and 25.

They also traded down from 32 to get 34 and 36 which seems like a fleece any objective way you look at it.

The overall haul:

25: Grimes
34: Jakubaitis
36: McBride
58: Sims

Is pretty solid IMO. Two immediate rotation guys, one draft and stash and a project big with top tier athleticism.

If you told me early yesterday they'd take McBride at 19 and Grimes at 25 I probably wouldn't have been stunned, so to get those guys and two extra future picks is a solid bit of business.

Assuming Jakubaitis stays with Barcelona for a year or two, looks like this is the current roster:

C: Mitch/Sims
PF: Randle/Obi
SF: RJ/Knox
SG: IQ/Grimes
PG: McBride

A lot of work to be done.

Also wanted to mention one more thing about the Charlotte deal that I didn't see posted yesterday (might have just missed it), I doubt the Knicks ever make that pick. Pushing it back a year, even if it ends up being at an equal slot, allows it to be included in trades over the next year and packaged with other picks for a big name. I bet that was a main motivator behind the trade.

Overall I give it a B. Two strong defenders, two low risk high reward guys. Doubt anyone will be a major impact players but Grimes and McBride should both fit in with any roster and be able to eat up some quality minutes off the bench at least, but maybe with some upside down the line.
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Aamir Simms  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 11:58 am : link
- article about him is linked. Interesting.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: at least we know summer league will be fun  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15317663 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Quick, Mcbride, Grimes, Toppin, simms should be a fun starting 5


actually both Sims and Simms, I think?
^^^^  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 12:01 pm : link
but probably not both in the starting 5, I guess.
^^^^  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 12:01 pm : link
but probably not both in the starting 5, I guess, if Toppin is playing.
I like the draft.  
Mike from SI : 7/30/2021 12:21 pm : link
We got 2 contributors and some upside all around. We were never gonna get a potential star. (Unless that's what Duarte turns into; a lot of the analysis of how well we did in this draft may turn on how good he turns out to be, since it sounds like we were close to a trade but didn't pull the trigger.)
it sounds like  
JJ2525 : 7/30/2021 12:38 pm : link
since reports are the indy wanted a young player along with 19/21, our choices were having duarte or having toppin, grimes and the protected charlotte pick.
Duarte  
DCOrange : 7/30/2021 12:39 pm : link
How is it that every year I read out here that guys in the draft like Obi are "old" at 22 and thus bad picks yet Duarte - the oldest of all them - was a great pick?
24 years old is the point where if you're not at least  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2021 12:41 pm : link
one of the first guys off the bench early in your career it's a bad pick. That's just so old now.
Derozan was being recruited by Lebron  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 12:42 pm : link
but they decided to go with the Westbrooj trade, according to Haynes
Any connection to Duarte  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 12:43 pm : link
Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.
I'm guessing Vildoza will be at Summer League, too.  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 12:46 pm : link
Those games will be fun.
here's the  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 12:47 pm : link
Summer League schedule
first Knicks game Sun. August 8 - ( New Window )
RE: Any connection to Duarte  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.

Music to my ears. Hope they get him.
My opinion  
NYG22 : 7/30/2021 1:00 pm : link
Knicks haul:

RD1, pick 19: traded for a future RD1 pick. Grade = C.

RD1, pick 25: Quentin Grimes - a solid and physical “two” guard. 6’5” and 210. Excellent shooter/defender. Not necessary an ISO player. Comp is Desmond Bane. Grade = B.

RD2, pick 34: Euro point guard who will remain in Europe for a couple of years. Still he’s a very good player and good long term (trade?) asset. Grade = B-

RD2, pick 36: Deuce McBride. One of my fav players in the draft and and instant MSG fav. Plays like Derek Fisher once did. like Davion Mitchell but to get Deuce 20+ picks after Mitchell is larceny. Grade = A.

RD2, pick 58: Jericho Sims. 6’10” w 7’3” WS. 250 lbs. Grown man’s body. Great athlete, laterally and vertically. One of the top defensive BIGs in this draft. Think Nerlens Noel + 50lbs. Has no offensive game other than dunking but doesn't have bad hands like NN. Grade = B+.
RE: Any connection to Duarte  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.

I don't really see the rationale for OKC trading SGA unless they absolutely love RJ. They have more first round picks than they could ever possibly use and it's not like SGA is and older guy that doesn't fit their timeline, he's only 23.
RE: RE: Any connection to Duarte  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15317748 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.


I don't really see the rationale for OKC trading SGA unless they absolutely love RJ. They have more first round picks than they could ever possibly use and it's not like SGA is and older guy that doesn't fit their timeline, he's only 23.


SGA doesn’t fit their timeline and neither does RJ, their not looking to be a contender for 4 years at the earliest. A trade for SGA will involve mostly picks and the Knicks would likely keep RJ
RE: RE: RE: Any connection to Duarte  
Mike in NJ : 7/30/2021 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15317752 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317748 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.


I don't really see the rationale for OKC trading SGA unless they absolutely love RJ. They have more first round picks than they could ever possibly use and it's not like SGA is and older guy that doesn't fit their timeline, he's only 23.



SGA doesn’t fit their timeline and neither does RJ, their not looking to be a contender for 4 years at the earliest. A trade for SGA will involve mostly picks and the Knicks would likely keep RJ


I guess Knicks would be keeping Toppin too. If RJ and SGA don’t fit their timeline then old man Obi doesn’t either lol
Can you explain  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 1:05 pm : link
the Duarte thing? I mean everyone reported the Knicks interest, so that'd be pretty shocking if it was all a ruse. Who was their real target? Murphy?
RE: RE: RE: Any connection to Duarte  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15317752 ajr2456 said:
Quote:

SGA doesn’t fit their timeline and neither does RJ, their not looking to be a contender for 4 years at the earliest. A trade for SGA will involve mostly picks and the Knicks would likely keep RJ

In 4 years, SGA will be 27 in the heart of his prime. The Knicks may want SGA but I'd be pretty stunned if he was actually traded. Using him to get the top pick is one thing if you think Cade is a superstar, franchise changing talent but trading him for a bunch of future picks which may fall anywhere is a whole other animal.
RE: Any connection to Duarte  
JB_in_DC : 7/30/2021 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.


Man SGA would be an amazing get. Rising star entering Year 4 of his rookie deal so you maintain enough cap flexibility to make a run at star(s) next offseason. Not holding my breath because it is so hard to shake a guy like that loose, but that right there is a move that opens a path to being a SERIOUS contender.
if a 23 year old who is bordering on stardom...  
Italianju : 7/30/2021 1:09 pm : link
doesnt fit your timeline then your timeline is fucked. I mean he isnt a FA anytime soon unless he is willing to play on his QO in a season or two.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Any connection to Duarte  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15317756 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317752 ajr2456 said:


Quote:



SGA doesn’t fit their timeline and neither does RJ, their not looking to be a contender for 4 years at the earliest. A trade for SGA will involve mostly picks and the Knicks would likely keep RJ


In 4 years, SGA will be 27 in the heart of his prime. The Knicks may want SGA but I'd be pretty stunned if he was actually traded. Using him to get the top pick is one thing if you think Cade is a superstar, franchise changing talent but trading him for a bunch of future picks which may fall anywhere is a whole other animal.


He’s due for his extension next week, they don’t want to shell out all that money while being bad. Also SGA is going to limit the upside of your picks.
RE: if a 23 year old who is bordering on stardom...  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 1:11 pm : link
In comment 15317761 Italianju said:
Quote:
doesnt fit your timeline then your timeline is fucked. I mean he isnt a FA anytime soon unless he is willing to play on his QO in a season or two.


they literally just have a bunch of projects on their team
RE: Can you explain  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:13 pm : link
In comment 15317755 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
the Duarte thing? I mean everyone reported the Knicks interest, so that'd be pretty shocking if it was all a ruse. Who was their real target? Murphy?


They wanted the pick to get Murphy, Ziaire or Bouknight. Duarte was never on their radar
RE: Aamir Simms  
Heisenberg : 7/30/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15317684 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
- article about him is linked. Interesting. Link - ( New Window )


I knew nothing about him before last night. But he is a pretty interesting dude. Seems like a high IQ small ball five who can handle and pass. That's a pretty narrow role and small ball fives have never seemed like something that Thibs was a big fan of employing. So he'll probably bounce around and then go to Europe unless he somehow becomes Draymond Green lite. But I was surprised by the handle and passing when I watched the highlights. No idea if he can defend.
RE: RE: Can you explain  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:15 pm : link
In comment 15317766 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317755 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


the Duarte thing? I mean everyone reported the Knicks interest, so that'd be pretty shocking if it was all a ruse. Who was their real target? Murphy?



They wanted the pick to get Murphy, Ziaire or Bouknight. Duarte was never on their radar


My insight on this is that I was in the final two choices as an agent for Ziaire and Murphy
I also found it odd that OKC took Josh Giddey and Tre Mann  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 1:16 pm : link
with SGA already on board. I know he's a little too young to be demanding trades, but he must realize this team is gonna be trash for several years.
Look if OKC wants to trade him...  
Italianju : 7/30/2021 1:18 pm : link
im all for it. I just cant imagine trading him for more picks when you already have a billion firsts. Like when they were rumored to be offering him for #1, that made sense. But to trade him to the knicks for what then could easily be late teen picks for the next few drafts doesnt really make much sense.
RE: Look if OKC wants to trade him...  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 1:25 pm : link
In comment 15317773 Italianju said:
Quote:
im all for it. I just cant imagine trading him for more picks when you already have a billion firsts. Like when they were rumored to be offering him for #1, that made sense. But to trade him to the knicks for what then could easily be late teen picks for the next few drafts doesnt really make much sense.

I find it odd too, but there have been reports (always taken with a grain of salt) that SGA is available for a steep price, and we're in a position to pay a steep price. The OKC draft pick thing has become a bit comical.
Another one to add to our SL team:  
Anakim : 7/30/2021 1:25 pm : link
JD Shaw
@JShawNBA
Justin Patton will play with the Knicks during the Las Vegas Summer League and Jazz during the Salt Lake City Summer League, source tells
@HoopsRumors



Patton is a C and was a first round pick a few years ago. Perhaps he beats out Norvel Pelle?
RE: I also found it odd that OKC took Josh Giddey and Tre Mann  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15317770 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
with SGA already on board. I know he's a little too young to be demanding trades, but he must realize this team is gonna be trash for several years.


Yup agreed. Two ball dominant players on top of your 23 year old ball dominant guard signifies that he's on the move.

if he is out there then im fine with offering all...  
Italianju : 7/30/2021 1:31 pm : link
the firsts we can for him. Especially if we can keep RJ. Build around him, RJ, and Randle with whatever youth we have left out of Mitch, OBi, IQ, McBride, Grimes, etc.. and we still have max money next offseason.
I also  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 1:36 pm : link
wonder if De'Aaron Fox is available. They have 3 ball dominant players now with Davion Mitchell in the fold. Thought that was a very strange move.
RE: RE: I also found it odd that OKC took Josh Giddey and Tre Mann  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 1:42 pm : link
In comment 15317780 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:

Yup agreed. Two ball dominant players on top of your 23 year old ball dominant guard signifies that he's on the move.

Giddey and SGA is actually a nice fit. Mann was the 18th pick in the draft. At that point if you're not a contending team then you should be picking the top guy on your board. I didn't find that unusual at all
RE: I also  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 1:45 pm : link
In comment 15317790 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
wonder if De'Aaron Fox is available. They have 3 ball dominant players now with Davion Mitchell in the fold. Thought that was a very strange move.

More likely I think is that they're going to make Haliburton and maybe Mitchell available for Ben Simmons
We should be doing what OKC is doing, the going all in for 3-n-D and  
Jim in Hoboken : 7/30/2021 1:50 pm : link
bailing when targets were off the board seemed strange. It’s nice and all to have a plan, but at the end of the day having talent gives you more leverage.

Grimes did well at the combine, but he needs to take a lot of tough shots. Good if he makes them, but there will be lots of 3-for14 nights too. I know we need skilled players, but it’ll be interesting to follow him and Johnson going forward. McBride isn’t as big as Smart, no way he can guard in the post the way Smart can, let’s hope he has better offensive skills. Sims I like, surprised he lasted this long. Would’ve liked Cooper, who would be surprised if he has an Isaiah Thomas like career?
RE: Any connection to Duarte  
TyreeHelmet : 7/30/2021 1:51 pm : link
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.


Man this is amazing to hear. An offseason of signing Lowry and trading mostly picks for SGA would be an A+. SGA would be perfect for the Knicks.

Does seem to be a lot of smoke around SGA too. I doubt he wants to continue to sit through tanking seasons. And OKC is cheap ownership who don't want to hand him a max while the team sucks.

Thanks for sharing your information- much appreciated. Lastly, do you think there is any chance Mitchell gets moved?
RE: RE: Any connection to Duarte  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15317801 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15317726 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Was all smoke.

The most likely scenario for FA is Lowry on a massive 1 year deal or a 1+1.

Said it in a thread in April that their long term plan was to put together a package for whichever one of Donovan Mitchell or SGA came available first, and the trading of 19 for the pick, even how protected it is makes that easier. They’re going to make a full run at SGA now.



Man this is amazing to hear. An offseason of signing Lowry and trading mostly picks for SGA would be an A+. SGA would be perfect for the Knicks.

Does seem to be a lot of smoke around SGA too. I doubt he wants to continue to sit through tanking seasons. And OKC is cheap ownership who don't want to hand him a max while the team sucks.

Thanks for sharing your information- much appreciated. Lastly, do you think there is any chance Mitchell gets moved?


This off-season probably not. It’s well known around the league that Utah “can’t afford” aka doesn’t want to keep their payroll this high and will sell off if they don’t win a ring soon, but I think we’re still a year or two away from Mitchell being moved in my opinion.
And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 1:54 pm : link
Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.
RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.


Sorry what do you mean by that? They didn't expect to be this competitive?
I mean  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 1:58 pm : link
Lowry on a 1 year 35 MM deal + SGA for Obi/IQ/5 1sts is a pretty damn good offseason.

Love IQ but McBride does make him far more expendable.
RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
TyreeHelmet : 7/30/2021 1:59 pm : link
In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.


What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.
I don't even know if this is credible  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2021 2:21 pm : link
I'm just so happy to hear they might know and understand that they need a PG.
..  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 2:27 pm : link
onathan Macri
@JCMacriNBA
·
9m
“I think they’ve got some plans. I’ve had inklings of what I think some of those plans might be, but I’m not quite ready to share them…but I think they’ve got some plans”

Lots of interesting stuff from Zach in regards to the Knicks opening up some extra cap space last night.
I woke up happy about the solid role players we drafted  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 2:27 pm : link
and now I'm daydreaming about Lowry/SGA/RJ/Randle/Mitch. Life as a Knicks fan.
Wouldnt love it cause assuming he opts in it would hurt 2022 FA...  
Italianju : 7/30/2021 2:30 pm : link
but i wonder if OKC wants to include Kemba in an SGA trade and thats why we wanted more space. I know we had enough space already to take Kemba and SGA even if we didnt send anything out, but maybe there are other moving parts we needed the space for.
RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 2:39 pm : link
In comment 15317806 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



Sorry what do you mean by that? They didn't expect to be this competitive?


Yea they didn’t think they’d be this competitive
RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 2:41 pm : link
In comment 15317808 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.


Looking at their other trades where they got picks and young guys they were able to move I’d guess something like:

IQ
Mitch
2022 Knicks pick
2023 Knicks pick
2023 Dallas pick
2025 Knicks pick

If I had to put a number on it I’d say 40% chance it happened this offseason
I don't follow SGA as closely as some of you -  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 2:44 pm : link
he's a good player for sure, but not even an All-Star this year I believe. Is a guy who's not an All-Star worth 4 or 5 first round picks and two rotation players? I'm not claiming any expertise - just seems like a lot to me.
RE: I don't follow SGA as closely as some of you -  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15317841 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
he's a good player for sure, but not even an All-Star this year I believe. Is a guy who's not an All-Star worth 4 or 5 first round picks and two rotation players? I'm not claiming any expertise - just seems like a lot to me.


Yes. 23-5-6 and still only 23.
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