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NFT: Knicks Talk: Draft Recap

Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 8:08 am
Well, don't think that went in the direction anyone expected.

After spending weeks trying to trade up, and apparently getting close with a couple teams (definitely at least the Pacers?), the Knicks traded both 19 and 21, and picked up a future 1st, 2nd, and 25.

They also traded down from 32 to get 34 and 36 which seems like a fleece any objective way you look at it.

The overall haul:

25: Grimes
34: Jakubaitis
36: McBride
58: Sims

Is pretty solid IMO. Two immediate rotation guys, one draft and stash and a project big with top tier athleticism.

If you told me early yesterday they'd take McBride at 19 and Grimes at 25 I probably wouldn't have been stunned, so to get those guys and two extra future picks is a solid bit of business.

Assuming Jakubaitis stays with Barcelona for a year or two, looks like this is the current roster:

C: Mitch/Sims
PF: Randle/Obi
SF: RJ/Knox
SG: IQ/Grimes
PG: McBride

A lot of work to be done.

Also wanted to mention one more thing about the Charlotte deal that I didn't see posted yesterday (might have just missed it), I doubt the Knicks ever make that pick. Pushing it back a year, even if it ends up being at an equal slot, allows it to be included in trades over the next year and packaged with other picks for a big name. I bet that was a main motivator behind the trade.

Overall I give it a B. Two strong defenders, two low risk high reward guys. Doubt anyone will be a major impact players but Grimes and McBride should both fit in with any roster and be able to eat up some quality minutes off the bench at least, but maybe with some upside down the line.
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RE: I don't follow SGA as closely as some of you -  
Ten Ton Hammer : 7/30/2021 2:47 pm : link
In comment 15317841 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
he's a good player for sure, but not even an All-Star this year I believe. Is a guy who's not an All-Star worth 4 or 5 first round picks and two rotation players? I'm not claiming any expertise - just seems like a lot to me.


He's 23 years old, so it's as much what he can grow into being.
Listened to Lowe’s podcast  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 2:48 pm : link
In addition to what Macri tweeted he said if he’s a team with a good restricted free agent he’s sweating the Knicks even more after last night. Used Duncan Robinson as a hypothetical.

Also said (not in relation the the Knicks) that he doesn’t think Shai was available even for a top 3 pick as was rumored. Said he thinks any noise around him is premature and that he’ll sign a big extension at the start of FA, possibly a 5 year max.
RE: RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2021 2:54 pm : link
In comment 15317835 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317808 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.



Looking at their other trades where they got picks and young guys they were able to move I’d guess something like:

IQ
Mitch
2022 Knicks pick
2023 Knicks pick
2023 Dallas pick
2025 Knicks pick

If I had to put a number on it I’d say 40% chance it happened this offseason


A team cannot trade their own pick in back to back years.
Hearing from  
TommyWiseau : 7/30/2021 2:57 pm : link
A friend who works in the Agent Business (for a top agency) that Duarte was a smoke screen. The cost to move up was more then they were willing to pay anyway. They acquired future picks to gather more assets as well as not have to pay the guaranteed salary of two first round picks leaving cap space flexibity for a big move. They have interest in SGA and have made calls about him as well as all star caliber player (I was not told who). The price for SGA is high but not out of the realm of possibility. They want to keep RJ
RE: RE: RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
adamg : 7/30/2021 2:58 pm : link
In comment 15317855 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317835 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15317808 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.



Looking at their other trades where they got picks and young guys they were able to move I’d guess something like:

IQ
Mitch
2022 Knicks pick
2023 Knicks pick
2023 Dallas pick
2025 Knicks pick

If I had to put a number on it I’d say 40% chance it happened this offseason



A team cannot trade their own pick in back to back years.


They can if they have another first that year.
SGA-RJ-Randle  
adamg : 7/30/2021 2:59 pm : link
is a fucking awesome core.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2021 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15317866 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15317855 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 15317835 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15317808 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.



Looking at their other trades where they got picks and young guys they were able to move I’d guess something like:

IQ
Mitch
2022 Knicks pick
2023 Knicks pick
2023 Dallas pick
2025 Knicks pick

If I had to put a number on it I’d say 40% chance it happened this offseason



A team cannot trade their own pick in back to back years.



They can if they have another first that year.


Thanks. I thought they still had to hold onto their pick and the other was obviously tradable.
Bring back Rose and Bullock  
adamg : 7/30/2021 3:01 pm : link
Might need to get a FA center if Mitch is included
RE: SGA-RJ-Randle  
Jon in NYC : 7/30/2021 3:02 pm : link
In comment 15317868 adamg said:
Quote:
is a fucking awesome core.


It really is. That's maybe one piece away from a real contender.
Oh  
adamg : 7/30/2021 3:03 pm : link
we might not be able to trade both of those 2023 picks though, in that case. Sub in the future pick we just got instead...
RE: RE: SGA-RJ-Randle  
adamg : 7/30/2021 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15317876 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 15317868 adamg said:


Quote:


is a fucking awesome core.



It really is. That's maybe one piece away from a real contender.


If they keep cap flexibility, adding Beal or LaVine next year?
RE: RE: RE: RE: And the Knicks knew it would be a couple of years  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15317855 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317835 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 15317808 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 15317804 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Before Mitchell became available but they didn’t expect to be in the position they are in right now.



What would be your best guess on a SGA trade package? 5 first round picks? Do you think it has a chance of happening this offseason?

Thanks again for the intel.



Looking at their other trades where they got picks and young guys they were able to move I’d guess something like:

IQ
Mitch
2022 Knicks pick
2023 Knicks pick
2023 Dallas pick
2025 Knicks pick

If I had to put a number on it I’d say 40% chance it happened this offseason



A team cannot trade their own pick in back to back years.


That should say Charlottes pick. And the freak out over the protections is an over reaction. Charlotte likely will end up lifting those protections since as of now they can’t trade another first until 2027.
RE: Hearing from  
ajr2456 : 7/30/2021 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15317862 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
A friend who works in the Agent Business (for a top agency) that Duarte was a smoke screen. The cost to move up was more then they were willing to pay anyway. They acquired future picks to gather more assets as well as not have to pay the guaranteed salary of two first round picks leaving cap space flexibity for a big move. They have interest in SGA and have made calls about him as well as all star caliber player (I was not told who). The price for SGA is high but not out of the realm of possibility. They want to keep RJ


I’m not his friend fwiw lol
One more note on Lowe's podcast  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 3:08 pm : link
He was talking about potential stars available in the context of what Miami is going to do and said something to the effect of "Beal is staying it appears" and then said "Dame is staying for now it appears". I'm probably just reading way too much into it but the "for now" with Dame but not Beal piqued my interest
RE: RE: Hearing from  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 3:09 pm : link
In comment 15317894 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15317862 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


A friend who works in the Agent Business (for a top agency) that Duarte was a smoke screen. The cost to move up was more then they were willing to pay anyway. They acquired future picks to gather more assets as well as not have to pay the guaranteed salary of two first round picks leaving cap space flexibity for a big move. They have interest in SGA and have made calls about him as well as all star caliber player (I was not told who). The price for SGA is high but not out of the realm of possibility. They want to keep RJ



I’m not his friend fwiw lol

I was just gonna say...
RE: RE: The first trade made absolutely no sense to me  
81_Great_Dane : 7/30/2021 3:16 pm : link
In comment 15317469 Jan in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15317467 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:


Quote:


#19 for a future best case #19 or higher? Or a #14 in three years? Makes no sense to me.



The only way I can make sense of it is if they were interested in pushing the pick back so that they can include it in potential trades in the future.

But the value is shit. It can possibly be 5 slots better in like 4 years? And if not it's a couple of 2s? Oy.

Not only that, but I feel like for Charlotte the needle is pointing up. Not really sure why we were so shy about actually making picks.
I dunno, I think they didn't have a conviction on the guys available at that point, didn't think they would get value. Better to trade the pick and kick that can down the road. An unused pick is an asset; a draft pick that never amounts to anything is a waste. They preserved the asset. They didn't enhance it, but they kept it.

Interesting that they moved back from 21 to 25 and got an extra 2nd (modest enhancement) and then from 32 to 34 and 36 (a great deal as far as I'm concerned). If you don't think there's value where you are picking, trade out of the spot. Works for me.
Bottom line knicks thought they had a deal in place  
Carl in CT : 7/30/2021 3:56 pm : link
#19 was included. When it didn’t there board had a lot of even players. They tried too late to get out and the Charlotte deal was the only one which was there. Multiple conversations and almost went up to #11. When Book was there they called it off. Charlotte and the Knicks on the phone all night.
RE: Bottom line knicks thought they had a deal in place  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2021 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15317955 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
#19 was included. When it didn’t there board had a lot of even players. They tried too late to get out and the Charlotte deal was the only one which was there. Multiple conversations and almost went up to #11. When Book was there they called it off. Charlotte and the Knicks on the phone all night.


And who was the target at 11?
Robbie  
Carl in CT : 7/30/2021 5:28 pm : link
I could ask but I do not know. Never thought too.
Robbie  
Carl in CT : 7/30/2021 5:31 pm : link
Don’t even know who the player we were giving picks and players for at #19
People pissed was a sore  
Carl in CT : 7/30/2021 5:32 pm : link
Subject.
If I had to guess it was Davion Mitchell.  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2021 5:34 pm : link
It couldn't have been Trey Murphy as he went much later.
Possibly  
robbieballs2003 : 7/30/2021 5:35 pm : link
Zaire Williams or Bouknight too.
..  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 5:57 pm : link
Celtics trade Tristan Thompson to Hawks for Kris Dunn and a future 2nd..

going to see these type of deals in the next couple of days, this clears 3 million for the Celtics and gets them a little further from luxury tax
RE: Look if OKC wants to trade him...  
shyster : 7/30/2021 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15317773 Italianju said:
Quote:
im all for it. I just cant imagine trading him for more picks when you already have a billion firsts. Like when they were rumored to be offering him for #1, that made sense. But to trade him to the knicks for what then could easily be late teen picks for the next few drafts doesnt really make much sense.


Agree with this. SGA is a fine player, no doubt.

But, as bait, IQ hasn't proved anything. Mitch hasn't proved anything AND has used up three of his cheap years.



RE: ..  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 6:40 pm : link
In comment 15318064 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Celtics trade Tristan Thompson to Hawks for Kris Dunn and a future 2nd..

going to see these type of deals in the next couple of days, this clears 3 million for the Celtics and gets them a little further from luxury tax


thompson being rerouted to sactown, delon wright to hawks
RE: if a 23 year old who is bordering on stardom...  
djm : 7/30/2021 7:14 pm : link
In comment 15317761 Italianju said:
Quote:
doesnt fit your timeline then your timeline is fucked. I mean he isnt a FA anytime soon unless he is willing to play on his QO in a season or two.


Thank you. And they don’t plan on winning for four years at the earliest? That’s some plan.
OKC has jettisoned better players than SGA over money.  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 7:33 pm : link
The 40% chance cited above is probably right. It’s worth pursuing, and a little nudge from SGA’s camp would help.
This thread is awesome  
djm : 7/30/2021 7:34 pm : link
Thanks to everyone with this insight.

Monday and next week will be fun. So refreshing to see the Knicks operating with a real plan. What that plan is remains to be seen...
RE: This thread is awesome  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 7:37 pm : link
In comment 15318099 djm said:
Quote:
Thanks to everyone with this insight.

Monday and next week will be fun. So refreshing to see the Knicks operating with a real plan. What that plan is remains to be seen...


I think the plan is to pair 2 high priced guys with Rj, Randle and Mitch..

then add a couple of vet minimums to help the youth off the bench..

I dont think Rose comes back unless their plan a fails, remember Rose himself said the Knicks have bigger plans at point..

I'm OK if Rose doesn't come back,  
Del Shofner : 7/30/2021 7:45 pm : link
nor will I be upset if he does. Although Atlanta beat us, turns out they were better than thought and acquiring Rose certainly put some juice into the team during the doldrums of the regular season. Vet leader, but only at the right price and without a lot of "gimme" when it comes to minutes.
RE: OKC has jettisoned better players than SGA over money.  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 7:46 pm : link
In comment 15318098 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
The 40% chance cited above is probably right. It’s worth pursuing, and a little nudge from SGA’s camp would help.

Are you talking about Harden? At the time Harden wasn't better than SGA is now. They also had KD and Westbrook and had just been to the finals. He's their lone draw to sell tickets right now. If they'd just won the lottery I could see it but nobody is going to Thunder games to watch Poku and Giddey.
Yes, Harden and other older stars (obviously different circumstances).  
bceagle05 : 7/30/2021 7:59 pm : link
I’m just saying it’s a possibility, based on insiders on this thread - who have been right about Knicks-related info in the past - saying it’s a possibility. Getting drilled by 30 points every night with Poku, Giddey, Mann and Dort might not be the most appealing thing for SGA right now, and players wield a bit of power.
Mavs opened up a max slot  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 8:40 pm : link
by dumping Richardson for the Celtics TPE. Thinking that’s the Lowry destination
RE: Mavs opened up a max slot  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 8:42 pm : link
In comment 15318131 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
by dumping Richardson for the Celtics TPE. Thinking that’s the Lowry destination


they have to let Timmy walk to officially have that amount of space
RE: RE: Mavs opened up a max slot  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 8:46 pm : link
In comment 15318134 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15318131 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


by dumping Richardson for the Celtics TPE. Thinking that’s the Lowry destination



they have to let Timmy walk to officially have that amount of space

Which I’m sure they will if it means getting Lowry. They can’t possibly run it back again after the way this past season ended.
RE: RE: RE: Mavs opened up a max slot  
nygiants16 : 7/30/2021 8:48 pm : link
In comment 15318135 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15318134 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15318131 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


by dumping Richardson for the Celtics TPE. Thinking that’s the Lowry destination



they have to let Timmy walk to officially have that amount of space


Which I’m sure they will if it means getting Lowry. They can’t possibly run it back again after the way this past season ended.


seems like a lateral move, Hardaway was their 2nd best player, they need to get rid of Porzingis
.  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 8:52 pm : link
They have a trade exception they can use to get another spot up shooter or move Green or Terry. There’s no doubt in my mind they’re going to shake things up. They heard Luka loud and clear
Popper thinks the Knicks wind up with Paul or Lowry  
Strahan91 : 7/30/2021 9:11 pm : link
so that’s something
Great thread btw.  
Optimus-NY : 7/31/2021 6:10 am : link
It seems that that trade at 19 was either the result of a pan gone awry during the draft itself or because they're going to package it.
RE: Great thread btw.  
nygiants16 : 7/31/2021 7:58 am : link
In comment 15318226 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
It seems that that trade at 19 was either the result of a pan gone awry during the draft itself or because they're going to package it.


Their plan was to either trade up consolodating the picks and saving the money or trading back and saving money that way..

they were mever going to habe 2 rookies on guaranteed deals
RE: RE: Great thread btw.  
Mike in NY : 7/31/2021 8:47 am : link
In comment 15318231 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15318226 Optimus-NY said:


Quote:


It seems that that trade at 19 was either the result of a pan gone awry during the draft itself or because they're going to package it.



Their plan was to either trade up consolodating the picks and saving the money or trading back and saving money that way..

they were mever going to habe 2 rookies on guaranteed deals


When Murphy got drafted that seemed to seal things as he seemed to be the last guy before a drop off to a tier of lots of similarly ranked players where who you would take would be graded the same as you could get in Round 2
the more I read about how the Knicks handled the draft,  
Del Shofner : 7/31/2021 8:56 am : link
the more I like it. Thinking long term and kept their powder dry. And got some players who might be able to contribute soon. Free agency will be very interesting.
That Jake Fischer dude says  
bceagle05 : 7/31/2021 10:35 am : link
there’s some mutual interest in DRose/Chicago reunion.
RE: That Jake Fischer dude says  
nygiants16 : 7/31/2021 10:38 am : link
In comment 15318286 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
there’s some mutual interest in DRose/Chicago reunion.


I really dont think he is coming back unkess their plan a or b fails and at the end of the season i thiught no shot he wasnt coming back
PG  
31southst : 7/31/2021 11:43 am : link
With Bouknight to CHA I think Devonte Graham makes sense and maybe Rose as a backup there. I’m nervous we’ll end up with Shroeder.
RE: PG  
larryflower37 : 7/31/2021 1:03 pm : link
In comment 15318312 31southst said:
Quote:
With Bouknight to CHA I think Devonte Graham makes sense and maybe Rose as a backup there. I’m nervous we’ll end up with Shroeder.

I would prefer Graham over Ball and Shroeder.
IMO I don't think CP3 leaves PHX unless PHX goes in another direction .Lowery is going to take a big deal
RE: PG  
larryflower37 : 7/31/2021 1:04 pm : link
In comment 15318312 31southst said:
Quote:
With Bouknight to CHA I think Devonte Graham makes sense and maybe Rose as a backup there. I’m nervous we’ll end up with Shroeder.

I would prefer Graham over Ball and Shroeder.
IMO I don't think CP3 leaves PHX unless PHX goes in another direction .Lowery is going to take a big deal
RE: RE: PG  
Strahan91 : 7/31/2021 1:14 pm : link
In comment 15318346 larryflower37 said:
Quote:

I would prefer Graham over Ball and Shroeder.
IMO I don't think CP3 leaves PHX unless PHX goes in another direction .Lowery is going to take a big deal

I don’t think so either although Sarver’s comments the other day has given me some pause
Rumors  
nygiants16 : 7/31/2021 3:28 pm : link
Lowry to miami right now gaining steam..

Dinwiddie to Washington in a sign and trade..

Cp3 back to Phoenix 3 years 90+
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