I want to see him stay pretty healthy the next two years. Only way I resign him after this year is if he has an all NFL type season and stays completely healthy.
Sounds like the 3-year extension for 1st round RBs is becoming the norm. Makes sense, play is generally guranteed to start falling off at that age depending on carry count.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
I’d be shocked if Saquon wasn’t resigned though, shocked. For all the people saying RB’s are overvalued, teams don’t appear to be operating that way. Aside from the Steelers and Bell, I can’t think of any teams not paying their RB’s.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
Browns did it mostly right. Drafted a good RB in the second round. And then paid him a cap friendly deal based on three years of solid production.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
It’s directed at anyone that vilifies RB contracts like they make QB money. $30m guaranteed isn’t a big deal, if he plays 3 more too end seasons it’s a bargain. If he blows his knee out the contract is low enough where it shouldn’t ruin them.
The issues are WR contracts, QB contracts to middling performers, and DEs contracts to players who aren’t consistent.
poorly thought out overpays for the “elite”. It’s great to have an impact player at RB but that emotion needs to be properly tempered with the injury factor, supply of existing pros and from the college ranks, and how the passing game is becoming so dominating for efficient offenses.
Nice job by Cleveland to not only select an impact RB in round 2, but also to pay him a reasonable second contract several years later.
I’d be shocked if Saquon wasn’t resigned though, shocked. For all the people saying RB’s are overvalued, teams don’t appear to be operating that way. Aside from the Steelers and Bell, I can’t think of any teams not paying their RB’s.
Pats, with Brady, didn't pay their RBs big numbers. The Chiefs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Bucs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Seattle isn't paying Carson a huge contract.
Chubb is a better back than Barkley and healthier, and the contract isn't insane, but Cleveland didn't need to do it.
True. Kareem Hunt could have spelled Chubb quite nicely.
The Kareem Hunt thing is a joke. He’s there because he fucked up and kicked a woman and they took a chance on him. Sans incident, he’s a top 5 back on any team.
They signed Chubb because they know that offense runs through
their 1-2 punch and offensive line. They compliment each other very well. Chubb has awful hands, looks like a 90s RB back there. And definitely why he didn't garner a CMC-level contract.
I think the move is to either trade him or let him play out his rookie deal, sign a big deal elsewhere, and help your comp pick formula.
The hard truth is this:
2018 average yards gained by a play to Barkley: 5.3
2020 average yards gained by a play to Gallman: 4.7
League average both years was 5.6.
Running the ball effectively is about blocking and scheme much more than it is the runner. With Stefanski and that offensive line Cleveland would be able to run the ball effectively with most backs.
The Kareem Hunt thing is a joke. He’s there because he fucked up and kicked a woman and they took a chance on him. Sans incident, he’s a top 5 back on any team.
I agree. He did a despicable act. But by stomaching it, the Browns get a damn good player on the cheap.
RE: RE: I wouldn’t be opposed to trying to sign Saquon for a bargain NOW..
I’d be shocked if Saquon wasn’t resigned though, shocked. For all the people saying RB’s are overvalued, teams don’t appear to be operating that way. Aside from the Steelers and Bell, I can’t think of any teams not paying their RB’s.
Pats, with Brady, didn't pay their RBs big numbers. The Chiefs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Bucs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Seattle isn't paying Carson a huge contract.
Thats because RoJo isn't up for a contract yet. Word around here is they want to see another year of production, but he's a guy that has progressed a ton since he got in league.
Breaks at least ten runs that Gallman failed to do last year.
Yes, line matters more. But so does RB talent.
Last year was a great example of why RB talents matters. Our RBs were terrible and they left plays all over the field. It was maddening. Like yeah its nice that the OL generated 5 yards on that carry, but break one tackle and its 20 plus.
is pure speculation. They did do it, as many teams do and that’s because replacing RBs isn’t as easy as everyone makes it seem. In fact, it took Hunt being a piece of garbage to even have a serviceable backup and even with him 1 misstep and he’s likely suspended for half a season or more making the position pretty vulnerable.
If you take Chubb out and replace him with a mid round pick you likely take a giant step back on offense. The entire offense runs through him, that isn’t something you can just replicate on a whim.
RE: They signed Chubb because they know that offense runs through
their 1-2 punch and offensive line. They compliment each other very well. Chubb has awful hands, looks like a 90s RB back there. And definitely why he didn't garner a CMC-level contract.
Chubb is a great combination runner - can hammer between the tackles and can turn the edge very effectively. And he's turned into a pretty good blocker.
Carolina gave CMC an absurd contract. So Chubb not getting comped on that level is a very good thing.
It runs through Stefanski's understanding of OL play and general play calling. He's an expert at making his quarterback's life easier.
And yet he foudn it necessary to resign Chubb. Stefanski's job is about as safe as can be, getting a Browns a playoff win against the Steelers, and he wanted him back. Clearly he values RB talent.
for the Browns. And Chubb has not been overused to date. So he should still be in the meat of his production arc.
Agreed, this is a bargain. Barkley and his agent have to be pissed right now.
I doubt SB is pissed about anything. He’d like to be his old self first.
I’m sure that’s the case. And when healthy I’ll take him over Chubb any day. But the reality is Chubb has stayed healthy and produced and Barkley has missed a lot of time. My comment about being pissed was related to his contract numbers almost assuredly dropping now. I wouldn’t pay him more than what Chubb just got unless he puts up some otherworldly season in 2021 and I’m sure he wanted more than what Chubb just took.
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
Berry paid Chubb a very reasonable deal. He didn't pay him ridiculous money like the deals McCaffrey and Zeke received.
So let's not act like a Brinks Truck was spotted in Cleveland backing up...
That is the important point, right? It's not a crazy contract.
So if the Giants want to use Chubb, who is better and healthier than Barkley, as a starting point and work backwards to say $9M or so per year for Barkley...you could probably live with that.
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
What’s amazing is you can’t write a post without spouting a preconceived agenda.
RBs absolutely matter but need to be kept in perspective of how positional value and the game is progressing. Chubb got paid a lot but nothing ridiculous. Good deal for him and Cleveland.
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
What’s amazing is you can’t write a post without spouting a preconceived agenda.
RBs absolutely matter but need to be kept in perspective of how positional value and the game is progressing. Chubb got paid a lot but nothing ridiculous. Good deal for him and Cleveland.
Totally agree. This is a great deal for Chubb and the team
I’d be shocked if Saquon wasn’t resigned though, shocked. For all the people saying RB’s are overvalued, teams don’t appear to be operating that way. Aside from the Steelers and Bell, I can’t think of any teams not paying their RB’s.
I m not certain people believe RB s are overvalued as to their contributions to an offense. Rather I think the opinion is you can get a good one without spending a real high draft pick on the position; at least that s the argument with Saquon.
Truthfully I kind of agree with that premise Sean, mostly because of the injury factor and shorter career of that position. The injury factor has certainly been true up to now with Barkley.
I think the move is to either trade him or let him play out his rookie deal, sign a big deal elsewhere, and help your comp pick formula.
The hard truth is this:
2018 average yards gained by a play to Barkley: 5.3
2020 average yards gained by a play to Gallman: 4.7
League average both years was 5.6.
Running the ball effectively is about blocking and scheme much more than it is the runner. With Stefanski and that offensive line Cleveland would be able to run the ball effectively with most backs.
Let’s all make Terps feel good and think he’s making a valid point by pretending to ignore the fact that we all know Barkley’s stats were compiled running behind a line that allowed him a league worst initial contact number. Statistics lie and…..
When healthy Barkley can do things Chubb can't dream of
1. Barkley is a freak athlete and that can go two ways. Especially in football. So far he's missed too many games but that could be bad luck. It could also be a career issue that prevents him ever realising his potential.
2. He has played through terrible O-Lines. It would have been great to see him the second half of the season and see what he could have done. Week one the flash would have been screwed behind that OL.
3. Third is more a style issue. He needs to cut out the negative plays without impacting what makes him great.
I believe he has the talent to be a dominant player in the league. If you put him on the Saints and he plays 17 games I'm certain he is a 2500 yard monster.
It is really easy to sit here and play the RBs don't matter card (Belichik disagrees btw) and Barkley is a poor pick. Right now I'd agree I'd take Nelson in a re-draft. However, the book isn't yet written and we have an incredible talent who may yet be very worth a huge contract. Will be fun to see how it plays out.
I will say this last part purely as a fan. I'm rooting hard for the kid... his rookie season brought me so much fun and made watching that team really enjoyable despite the W-L. I would love to see him get back to his best.
Link - ( New Window )
If I'm the Giants, I'm not going overboard with Saquon unless he looks like his rookie self this fall.
Sounds like the 3-year extension for 1st round RBs is becoming the norm. Makes sense, play is generally guranteed to start falling off at that age depending on carry count.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
Agreed, this is a bargain. Barkley and his agent have to be pissed right now.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
Browns did it mostly right. Drafted a good RB in the second round. And then paid him a cap friendly deal based on three years of solid production.
Quote:
but you’d never know it visiting this board.
Not sure if directed @ me, but I will admit I'm not laser focused on what RBs around the league are making. And also, all these contracts seem absurd from 30,000 feet, Haha.
It’s directed at anyone that vilifies RB contracts like they make QB money. $30m guaranteed isn’t a big deal, if he plays 3 more too end seasons it’s a bargain. If he blows his knee out the contract is low enough where it shouldn’t ruin them.
The issues are WR contracts, QB contracts to middling performers, and DEs contracts to players who aren’t consistent.
Chubb is a better back than Barkley and healthier, and the contract isn't insane, but Cleveland didn't need to do it.
Nice job by Cleveland to not only select an impact RB in round 2, but also to pay him a reasonable second contract several years later.
If I'm the Giants, I'm not going overboard with Saquon unless he looks like his rookie self this fall.
How much of Barkley’s original contract was guaranteed? Has he earned it?
Pats, with Brady, didn't pay their RBs big numbers. The Chiefs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Bucs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Seattle isn't paying Carson a huge contract.
Chubb is a better back than Barkley and healthier, and the contract isn't insane, but Cleveland didn't need to do it.
True. Kareem Hunt could have spelled Chubb quite nicely.
Quote:
Chubb is a better back than Barkley and healthier, and the contract isn't insane, but Cleveland didn't need to do it.
True. Kareem Hunt could have spelled Chubb quite nicely.
The Kareem Hunt thing is a joke. He’s there because he fucked up and kicked a woman and they took a chance on him. Sans incident, he’s a top 5 back on any team.
The hard truth is this:
2018 average yards gained by a play to Barkley: 5.3
2020 average yards gained by a play to Gallman: 4.7
League average both years was 5.6.
Running the ball effectively is about blocking and scheme much more than it is the runner. With Stefanski and that offensive line Cleveland would be able to run the ball effectively with most backs.
Yes, line matters more. But so does RB talent.
The Kareem Hunt thing is a joke. He’s there because he fucked up and kicked a woman and they took a chance on him. Sans incident, he’s a top 5 back on any team.
I agree. He did a despicable act. But by stomaching it, the Browns get a damn good player on the cheap.
Quote:
I’d be shocked if Saquon wasn’t resigned though, shocked. For all the people saying RB’s are overvalued, teams don’t appear to be operating that way. Aside from the Steelers and Bell, I can’t think of any teams not paying their RB’s.
Pats, with Brady, didn't pay their RBs big numbers. The Chiefs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Bucs aren't paying their RBs big numbers. Seattle isn't paying Carson a huge contract.
Thats because RoJo isn't up for a contract yet. Word around here is they want to see another year of production, but he's a guy that has progressed a ton since he got in league.
Yes, line matters more. But so does RB talent.
No he doesn't, because he's on the sidelines with a knee injury.
And I just showed you the difference between the best Barkley we've seen and a journeyman Gallman. The numbers are what they are regardless of talent.
Yes, line matters more. But so does RB talent.
Last year was a great example of why RB talents matters. Our RBs were terrible and they left plays all over the field. It was maddening. Like yeah its nice that the OL generated 5 yards on that carry, but break one tackle and its 20 plus.
If you take Chubb out and replace him with a mid round pick you likely take a giant step back on offense. The entire offense runs through him, that isn’t something you can just replicate on a whim.
Chubb is a great combination runner - can hammer between the tackles and can turn the edge very effectively. And he's turned into a pretty good blocker.
Carolina gave CMC an absurd contract. So Chubb not getting comped on that level is a very good thing.
I’m fine with you calling it that, something I can admit. You on the other hand? No shot.
obviously Stefanski doesn't agree with you
And yet he foudn it necessary to resign Chubb. Stefanski's job is about as safe as can be, getting a Browns a playoff win against the Steelers, and he wanted him back. Clearly he values RB talent.
Quote:
Breaks at least ten runs that Gallman failed to do last year.
Yes, line matters more. But so does RB talent.
No he doesn't, because he's on the sidelines with a knee injury.
And I just showed you the difference between the best Barkley we've seen and a journeyman Gallman. The numbers are what they are regardless of talent.
Needs context, no? This via PFR
2020 Gallman total touches: 168
2020 Gallman total broken tackles: 10
2020 Gallman YAC: 362 on the ground, 100 as a receiver
2018 Barkley total touches: 352
2018 Barkley total broken tackles: 43
2018 Barkley YAC: 736 on the ground, 768 receiving
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for the Browns. And Chubb has not been overused to date. So he should still be in the meat of his production arc.
Agreed, this is a bargain. Barkley and his agent have to be pissed right now.
I doubt SB is pissed about anything. He’d like to be his old self first.
Quote:
In comment 15318550 bw in dc said:
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for the Browns. And Chubb has not been overused to date. So he should still be in the meat of his production arc.
Agreed, this is a bargain. Barkley and his agent have to be pissed right now.
I doubt SB is pissed about anything. He’d like to be his old self first.
I’m sure that’s the case. And when healthy I’ll take him over Chubb any day. But the reality is Chubb has stayed healthy and produced and Barkley has missed a lot of time. My comment about being pissed was related to his contract numbers almost assuredly dropping now. I wouldn’t pay him more than what Chubb just got unless he puts up some otherworldly season in 2021 and I’m sure he wanted more than what Chubb just took.
Berry paid Chubb a very reasonable deal. He didn't pay him ridiculous money like the deals McCaffrey and Zeke received.
So let's not act like a Brinks Truck was spotted in Cleveland backing up...
Quote:
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
Berry paid Chubb a very reasonable deal. He didn't pay him ridiculous money like the deals McCaffrey and Zeke received.
So let's not act like a Brinks Truck was spotted in Cleveland backing up...
I know that, see my first two posts.
Quote:
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
Berry paid Chubb a very reasonable deal. He didn't pay him ridiculous money like the deals McCaffrey and Zeke received.
So let's not act like a Brinks Truck was spotted in Cleveland backing up...
That is the important point, right? It's not a crazy contract.
So if the Giants want to use Chubb, who is better and healthier than Barkley, as a starting point and work backwards to say $9M or so per year for Barkley...you could probably live with that.
No way in hell Barkley does, though.
What’s amazing is you can’t write a post without spouting a preconceived agenda.
RBs absolutely matter but need to be kept in perspective of how positional value and the game is progressing. Chubb got paid a lot but nothing ridiculous. Good deal for him and Cleveland.
Quote:
but he paid the RB anyway for the fuck of it? Haha, amazing.
What’s amazing is you can’t write a post without spouting a preconceived agenda.
RBs absolutely matter but need to be kept in perspective of how positional value and the game is progressing. Chubb got paid a lot but nothing ridiculous. Good deal for him and Cleveland.
Totally agree. This is a great deal for Chubb and the team
What happened? 11 wins, playoffs and Mayfield all of a sudden is being talked about as a franchise QB.
What we should learn? If your team is a top running team good things happen and Cleveland/Stefanski recognizes this.
I m not certain people believe RB s are overvalued as to their contributions to an offense. Rather I think the opinion is you can get a good one without spending a real high draft pick on the position; at least that s the argument with Saquon.
Truthfully I kind of agree with that premise Sean, mostly because of the injury factor and shorter career of that position. The injury factor has certainly been true up to now with Barkley.
The hard truth is this:
2018 average yards gained by a play to Barkley: 5.3
2020 average yards gained by a play to Gallman: 4.7
League average both years was 5.6.
Running the ball effectively is about blocking and scheme much more than it is the runner. With Stefanski and that offensive line Cleveland would be able to run the ball effectively with most backs.
Let’s all make Terps feel good and think he’s making a valid point by pretending to ignore the fact that we all know Barkley’s stats were compiled running behind a line that allowed him a league worst initial contact number. Statistics lie and…..
1. Barkley is a freak athlete and that can go two ways. Especially in football. So far he's missed too many games but that could be bad luck. It could also be a career issue that prevents him ever realising his potential.
2. He has played through terrible O-Lines. It would have been great to see him the second half of the season and see what he could have done. Week one the flash would have been screwed behind that OL.
3. Third is more a style issue. He needs to cut out the negative plays without impacting what makes him great.
I believe he has the talent to be a dominant player in the league. If you put him on the Saints and he plays 17 games I'm certain he is a 2500 yard monster.
It is really easy to sit here and play the RBs don't matter card (Belichik disagrees btw) and Barkley is a poor pick. Right now I'd agree I'd take Nelson in a re-draft. However, the book isn't yet written and we have an incredible talent who may yet be very worth a huge contract. Will be fun to see how it plays out.
I will say this last part purely as a fan. I'm rooting hard for the kid... his rookie season brought me so much fun and made watching that team really enjoyable despite the W-L. I would love to see him get back to his best.