I'm starting to sense a pattern on this board. Person A or B talks and everyone swarms. I'm almost afraid to chime in, this place is like Shark Week every day.
Now you’re getting some action. My advice is to stock up on popcorn and enjoy the show. Soon enough you’ll be firing up the microwave based on the thread titles alone.
Fournette was a key part of Jax getting to a Championship game or are memories that short? Or perhaps intentionally oblivious because it goes against a narrative?
Fournette did have a nice year during that run. So?
And like with most RBs, he got hurt - due to the nature of the position; diminishing returns - and he's been about 60% of what was expected of him when he was drafted. The ROI was upside down Jax, which is why they - smartly - got rid of him.
And, yes, the SB selection was dumb. Great player but our record has been miserable with and without him during his tenure.
But, hey, he looks cool jumping over defenders and he's a class act. If that makes you feel good instead of winning, I can see why you liked the selection so much.
Fournette was worth the 4th overall pick because the Jaguars
I guess the Jaguars made a crucial error in letting him go to Tampa too otherwise they would be holding the Lombardi Trophy.
The Jags were only able to replace him with a scrub undrafted free agent rookie named James Robinson who rushed for over 1,000 yards with another 300+ yards receiving, and 10 touchdowns.
And, yes, the SB selection was dumb. Great player but our record has been miserable with and without him during his tenure.
But, hey, he looks cool jumping over defenders and he's a class act. If that makes you feel good instead of winning, I can see why you liked the selection so much.
That means basically every Giants pick has been a terrible one for the past 7-8 years.
I like having good players on the team. The more good players you have, the better you'll be as a team. Barkley is an excellent player.
really afford selecting a RB at overall #2. And not that he isn't one of the better ones when he plays, but injury factors and longevity issues at the position don't help that cause.
But now, after 3 additional offseasons later of actual rebuilding and an ACL/MCL operation of that original pick, we get to see if this roster is actually ready to compete for a playoff spot.
Not a good process but hopefully Barkley gets to be part of a winning one with the Giants before his career takes another turn...
RE: RE: Most of the draft picks have been bad ones
Outside of Lawrence, which of those are definitively good picks?
good or bad? -- Go Panic has decided the majority of them are bad -- With the exception of Baker -- I don't know how anyone can come to such a decisive conclusion
football fan saw Barkley's rookie season and attributes the team record to equating to him not having a good year, and then says he isn't a great player, I don't know what meets that bar.
Does that mean there aren't any great players on bad teams?
RE: RE: Most of the draft picks have been bad ones
Particularly the critical first and second round picks.
And is Barkley a great player, really?
If you were to poll players, coaches and GMs around the NFL, what do you think their answer to this question would be?
I think all of the above would say he's a good player, because he is. But I do think the coaches and GMs would have major reservations about his poor blocking and his health. And I think most of the GMs would say the Giants made a big mistake drafting him at #2.
Is more of a product of a strong OL than the skill of the RB itself. The balanced team thing cuts both ways too, a weak passing game isn't going to do your running game any favors - you will be more predictable and your RB will be seeing more defenders.
If you are allocating resources from scratch in a vacuum, you're being completely ignorant not to have a bias towards the passing game. It's inarguable at this point, you're playing the game with how it's called and the rules have been stacking up in favor of the passing game and points exponentially in the last decade. In the end when it comes to the Giants, you build towards your strengths, if the Giants end up being a significantly more efficient running team than passing, they should exhibit a bias towards the run game (this includes utilizing Jones there). If that is the identity they start to build and the efficiency numbers reflect that, then they should go in that direction. This would probably mean extending Barkley unless he were seeking an outrageous benchmark setting contract. They shouldn't do it out of some bullshit nostalgia about smashmouth or football dogma on "that's how you win football games". You win by doing more of what you are good at and less of what you are not without falling into a predictable pattern.
SB, at #2 overall seems an extravagant pick for value. That argument's time has passed, but the list above seems to indicate that a draft pick on day 2 might be a wiser expenditure than dollars, depending on how high the dollar figure is.
Even wiser is knowing how to draft and bring in FA so that after all the capital spent on an OL, we'd have one that can make an average RB look better, and the QB wouldn't spend so much time running for his life.
football fan saw Barkley's rookie season and attributes the team record to equating to him not having a good year, and then says he isn't a great player, I don't know what meets that bar.
Does that mean there aren't any great players on bad teams?
Barkley's rookie season is overrated by you. The ball went his way over 380 times. With that much usage you'd better clear 2000 yards. Again - a play that went to Barkley gained less than the average play leaguewide (5.6 to 5.3).
You want to give Barkley credit something for that year, it should probably be that he didn't break down from overuse. But then again who knows what impact his 2018 use had on his injuries in 2019 and 2020.
I don't know how pointing that out makes me a lesser football fan. I'm also not interested in being a great fan, so have at it on that score.
there's that patented exaggeration. The only thing Barkley should get credit for is not breaking down from overuse??
Just a fucking farce at this point.
How many people really think Barkley wasn't great his rookie season, and yet you continue to go through the gymnastics to say he wasn't. Only you know why that fucking is.
When the ball went his way the Giants gained 5.3 yards/play. That'd less than the NFL average that year. If you consider that gymnastics then you must really struggle with math.
there's that patented exaggeration. The only thing Barkley should get credit for is not breaking down from overuse??
Just a fucking farce at this point.
How many people really think Barkley wasn't great his rookie season, and yet you continue to go through the gymnastics to say he wasn't. Only you know why that fucking is.
Over 2000 yards from scrimmage and 15 TDs. As a rookie. Doesn’t every scrub RB do that as rookies?
When the ball went his way the Giants gained 5.3 yards/play. That'd less than the NFL average that year. If you consider that gymnastics then you must really struggle with math.
"Easy math". You have a really strong penchant for picking and choosing specific stats and telling the board they are what makes the player bad. Just like the AY/A stat for QB's. You make it seem like that stat is fairly static and indicative of the QB when it is more of an indication of offensive efficiency.
If points are your barometer, 15 TD's is a lot of points, or do points only matter for other arguments with non-Giants?
I think we can all agree top line yards number don't always tell the whole story.
The best example is of course a 1000 yard rusher. Not so impressive if it takes 300 carries and a 3.3 YPC.
It's fair to look at Barkley's big number in 2018 with a little bit of that angle.
On the ground, there's no way around it, he had a fantastic individual year as a running back. Lots of yards, lots of TDs, good amount of first downs.
If you believe in the intrinsic value of running the ball, this helps too because it's setting up the play action, wearing down the defense, and is a lower risk of a zero yard play. I think this is part of the argument for running the ball well later in the year.
In the air the 720 yards has to be evaluating in the context of 121 targets. More than the #2 WR. And at 6 YPT, that's pretty mediocre. 30 first downs and 4 TDs on 121 targets isn't that impressive as well.
1) We all know Barkley got a lot of targets that were extended handoffs. I don't love that type of offense. It takes away from the intrinsic value of a rush in some ways.
2) We all know Barkley got a lot of targets because the pass protection and pass game was bad. I don't love that type of target either, because it's a desperation target.
I think the more impressive stats to hang your hat one are the 11 rushing TDs and the 1300 yards. That's the goods.
in 2018 was not only a bad OL but due to a declining and skittish Eli in the pocket who didn't want to risk the pick or QB hit/sack.
And on third and long (or very long) Eli wouldn't give this much thought and that ball was swung out to Saquon to get some yards before the eventual punt.
Googs — agreed. 2018 Barkley in the air was an OK number two passing target whose stats benefited from a broken offense.
If you look at two of the really impressive seasons in the air running backs have had recently, CMC in 2019 and Kamara in 2017, the efficiency is much better.
CMC was 7.1 YPT, and ridiculous 58 first downs. Kamara was 8.3 YPT and 38 first downs.
I hope a healthy Barkley is a running back primarily, and the Giants utilize their WRs and TEs downfield more. There’s no reason with Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Engram, and Rudolph — that Barkley should be 20% of the pass targets.
Googs — agreed. 2018 Barkley in the air was an OK number two passing target whose stats benefited from a broken offense.
If you look at two of the really impressive seasons in the air running backs have had recently, CMC in 2019 and Kamara in 2017, the efficiency is much better.
CMC was 7.1 YPT, and ridiculous 58 first downs. Kamara was 8.3 YPT and 38 first downs.
I hope a healthy Barkley is a running back primarily, and the Giants utilize their WRs and TEs downfield more. There’s no reason with Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Engram, and Rudolph — that Barkley should be 20% of the pass targets.
Yep, hopefully he is improving his pass protection because that is where the true plus yards will come when he is not the target...
If you believe a superstar RB moves the needle enough to pay him large amounts of coin for a 2nd contract/extension or can he be replaced by a serviceable RB for cheaper when the contract is up.
If you believe a superstar RB moves the needle enough to pay him large amounts of coin for a 2nd contract/extension or can he be replaced by a serviceable RB for cheaper when the contract is up.
Outside of character concerns (Bell) top RBs are almost always extended regardless of team record and whether or not they are 1 piece away. So it begs the question - why? Why are there so many terrible GMs out there giving these players money that they can simply replace since the position is so fungible?
capologists on BBI fail to grasp about RB's is that very few of them take up such substantial cap that they are burdensome. People here would jump to give a WR $20M if they had 15TD's in a season and call it a bargain.
People make it sound like RB's are all the same, so in their minds, anything over $5M a year is a tough thing. Just look at the way one idiot carried on about the Jonathon Stewart contract as a "fireable offense".
There are more examples than just L. Bell as to problems teams
have run into paying large second contracts to top running backs. Not that it destroyed their cap but it certainly didn't help it when the RB didn't earn that deal and was released or traded as a result.
capologists on BBI fail to grasp about RB's is that very few of them take up such substantial cap that they are burdensome. People here would jump to give a WR $20M if they had 15TD's in a season and call it a bargain.
What is substantial?
Many of us, btw, are not comfortable with the money we shelled out for KG based on his injuries and if he's a true #1.
not sure what money you're comfortable with, period.
How long did you complain about the Williams contract negotiation? How long did you "spitball" that we'd have no money to sign any other players because we overpaid for a DT?
When the same people always bitch about every move, you'll crow about it when that player doesn't pan out. Don't hear much when the player does.
Just like your extended absence from the board. when your bitching about Eli's draft day acquisition no longer had a crowd to agree with it and the Giants won Super Bowls, your ass conveniently disappeared from here.
but his contract is actually pretty solid and safe so it offsets the worry for me. Its a matter of health, he's going to produce when he's on the field especially paired with Barkley and Toney. But I definitely wanted Robinson over him (which was moot since he got tagged).
yet it took the Giants years to find one and now he's coming off injury. The only year he was fully healthy was the only year we had anything close to a running game.
They aren't easy to find. The running game can be easily remedied IF and only IF that team has a good OL, dominant passing game and fills the RB position adequately. If any of those 3 things fall out of place, the running game will struggle.
It aint easy to fund RBs. Just because you can conjure up examples of an Ahmad Bradshaw here or Olandis Gary there doesn't make it so. You can also conjure up good left tackles that were drafted after round 1. Same with QB. Doesn't mean they are easy to find either.
How many great running games are populated with a mid to low round RB? And from that list, how many of those teams have an insanely mobile and athletic QB AND/OR have an awesome OL?
Wayne Gallman or the 2020 NYG offense is not a good example! If anything, it just further proves my point. The Giants offense sucked for most of last season. Even on its best day, it was merely functional. Wayne Fucking Gallman? You're going to bring up .5 YPC as some indicator that going from Barkley to Gallman is not that big a drop, during a NYG second half season that FINALLY saw the OL play a little bit better, all the while the team still couldn't keep defenses honest in the biggest of games, as some sort of clear cut proof that a team can win with journeymen talent at RB over the stud?
Is the one you used to disappear from the board for the 5-year period spanning the Super Bowls clear yet?
Can you get some new material? For someone apparently so smart, your act is very stale.
Regardless, at least I try to answer all replies direction towards me.
Unlike you, who sneaks away like a typical bully when your non-sense is challenged.
I don't think talking about stale acts is really in your favor here. Your material has been the same throughout - complain about the team and disappear when they are good.
As for sneaking away, there is a certain point in time where debates are done. Why should I have to answer every point, especially when so many of them are redundant or posed by guys just trolling.
I mean, look at the majority of Jimmy Clownshoes posts - he's just looking for a reaction - not to have a discussion.
"The only year he was fully healthy was the only year we had anything close to a running game." Should say anything close to an actual NFL offense.
Barkley is a weapon. He's the reason why this offense has a shot to win 11 games this season. INstead of enjoying that, you cannot wait to tear down the myth that good RBs aren't important or even essential to winning.
Look at the playoff teams every year! Nearly every single one has top flight talent at the RB or mobile QB position. That matters!
I do think RB is a position that can be had in round 2, unlike perhaps LT, but it's still a position that lends itself to being drafted in the first 2 rounds, just like any other position, save for a few exceptions, and by few I mean very few.
You run around here crying "Hypocrisy" nearly every day and then put out nonsense posts like these.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
we make the playoffs last season. In our sleep. The no playoff streak is over. The record last year looks 1-2 games better. And this team has a playoff game under their belts.
We need Barkley. Like it or not. He's an extraordinary weapon and anyone who conjures up stats to diminish his ability or impact is lost. This team didn't win in the 80s until they got Joe MOrris going. They didn't win in 93 without Hampton. They didn't go anywhere in 97 without the impact from Charles Way. Nowhere in 2000-2005 without Tiki Barber. And they fall flat in 07-11 without the efforts of Jacobs and Bradshaw. If we had a big time talent at RB in 16-17 who knows what happens. Sitting here and diminishing Barkley's impact because of an injury and a bad team is fucking ridiculous. Talk about confirmation bias.
some of you LOVE to disparage a player without taking into account the entire team and coaching. Barley's 2018 season was overrated? No, it was wasted. Can you even try to fathom how that season looks if an actual PRO defense is lining up on the other side of the ball for NYG that season? Forget any other excuses, we don't need them. The OL was a shit show. Eli was making more business decisions than he had year's prior, all well n good, but let's leave that O exactly where it is, no changes, and just add actual NFL talent to the D that want to compete? And add a real DC? Add a D that doesn't cave week in week out and let the 386 pts scored stand up on its own.
I guess we can't ask for a PIttburg Steeler type effort from that NYG defense can we.
We sucked in 2018 because the defense was comically bad. Barkley was the only thing right with that offense. That and the occasional Eli to Beckham brilliance.
You run around here crying "Hypocrisy" nearly every day and then put out nonsense posts like these.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
Again - these debates are fueled in part by posters like you - trolls who put out no analysis or put out no actual information. I mean just look at your sad posting history.
You were banned for being a chucklehead and immediately created a duplicate handle to return to the board and continue posting the same vapid shit. At some point in debates, the points have been made and beaten to death.
If you call bowing out using an escape hatch, what is it called when you're kicked off a board and stay? And for what purpose - to troll. Jimmy Clownshoes!
RBs aren't easy to find? Really? Or is our scouting department not good at it?
Because of the current RBs in the league, here are some very good ones who were found in the 3rd round or later.
Seattle found Chris Carson in the 7th round.
Green Bay found Aaron Jones in the 5th round.
Jacksonville found James Robinson in the undrafted pool.
Denver found Phillip Lindsey in the undrafted pool.
WFT found Antonio Gibson in the 3rd round.
Saints found Kamara in the 3rd round.
Colts found Marlon Mack in the 4th round.
Bears found David Montgomery in the 3rd round.
Hell, two of the best backs in the league right now were second round picks - Henry and Chubb.
So RBs are indeed everywhere. It's up to the personnel department to do their job and find them. Or another team definitely will.
The reality is Chubb didn't sign a ridiculous extension. The material likely to be earned money is concentrated in the first two years of the extension according to OTC.
2021: 4.8M cap hit (rookie deal)
2022: 5.2M cap hit (extension)
2023: 14.8M cap hit (extension)
2024: 16.2M cap hit (extension)
The Browns can cut Chubbs after 2023, with 4M dead money.
In this scenario, Chubbs plays the next 3 years and earns a total of 28.7M (9.6M for AAV crowd).
A very plausible outcome for Saquon Barkley over the next 3 years is a total of 26M (8.7M AAV).
You run around here crying "Hypocrisy" nearly every day and then put out nonsense posts like these.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
Again - these debates are fueled in part by posters like you - trolls who put out no analysis or put out no actual information. I mean just look at your sad posting history.
You were banned for being a chucklehead and immediately created a duplicate handle to return to the board and continue posting the same vapid shit. At some point in debates, the points have been made and beaten to death.
If you call bowing out using an escape hatch, what is it called when you're kicked off a board and stay? And for what purpose - to troll. Jimmy Clownshoes!
I call it your continuing diatribe of nonsense.
The escape hatch comments getting under your skin I guess. Or again, maybe it was taking a few shots yesterday that has set you off into today's tirades.
And you do indeed need some new material. That way we can move onto making fun of something fresh when you go off berating others...
Now you’re getting some action. My advice is to stock up on popcorn and enjoy the show. Soon enough you’ll be firing up the microwave based on the thread titles alone.
Fournette was a key part of Jax getting to a Championship game or are memories that short? Or perhaps intentionally oblivious because it goes against a narrative?
Fournette did have a nice year during that run. So?
And like with most RBs, he got hurt - due to the nature of the position; diminishing returns - and he's been about 60% of what was expected of him when he was drafted. The ROI was upside down Jax, which is why they - smartly - got rid of him.
And, yes, the SB selection was dumb. Great player but our record has been miserable with and without him during his tenure.
But, hey, he looks cool jumping over defenders and he's a class act. If that makes you feel good instead of winning, I can see why you liked the selection so much.
I guess the Jaguars made a crucial error in letting him go to Tampa too otherwise they would be holding the Lombardi Trophy.
The Jags were only able to replace him with a scrub undrafted free agent rookie named James Robinson who rushed for over 1,000 yards with another 300+ yards receiving, and 10 touchdowns.
But, hey, he looks cool jumping over defenders and he's a class act. If that makes you feel good instead of winning, I can see why you liked the selection so much.
That means basically every Giants pick has been a terrible one for the past 7-8 years.
I like having good players on the team. The more good players you have, the better you'll be as a team. Barkley is an excellent player.
And is Barkley a great player, really?
That means basically every Giants pick has been a terrible one for the past 7-8 years.
I like having good players on the team. The more good players you have, the better you'll be as a team. Barkley is an excellent player.
Unfortunately, we have struggled with picking the right players.
Everyone likes having good players. But it's more than that. It's having the best players you can at the right positions.
Right positions being the premium positions. And RB is not one of those.
And is Barkley a great player, really?
Let's See Looking at 2018-2021:
These are all bad picks?
With the exception of Baker -- how do you know they are bad picks? Oh I forgot -- Go Panic
Barkley
Hernandez
Jones
Lawrence
Baker
Thomas
McKinney
Toney
Ojulari
And is Barkley a great player, really?
If you were to poll players, coaches and GMs around the NFL, what do you think their answer to this question would be?
But now, after 3 additional offseasons later of actual rebuilding and an ACL/MCL operation of that original pick, we get to see if this roster is actually ready to compete for a playoff spot.
Not a good process but hopefully Barkley gets to be part of a winning one with the Giants before his career takes another turn...
Barkley
Hernandez
Jones
Lawrence
Baker
Thomas
McKinney
Toney
Ojulari
You can't list Toney and Ojulari. They haven't shown anything yet. And I loved the Ojulari pick.
Jones is still a huge question mark.
Hernandez took a major step back last year. So I don't know how anyone can fill good about that pick right now...
And we really don't know what we have McKinney yet. I'm rather bullish, but let's so a full season first...
good or bad? -- Go Panic has decided the majority of them are bad -- With the exception of Baker -- I don't know how anyone can come to such a decisive conclusion
Does that mean there aren't any great players on bad teams?
Quote:
Particularly the critical first and second round picks.
And is Barkley a great player, really?
If you were to poll players, coaches and GMs around the NFL, what do you think their answer to this question would be?
I think all of the above would say he's a good player, because he is. But I do think the coaches and GMs would have major reservations about his poor blocking and his health. And I think most of the GMs would say the Giants made a big mistake drafting him at #2.
If you are allocating resources from scratch in a vacuum, you're being completely ignorant not to have a bias towards the passing game. It's inarguable at this point, you're playing the game with how it's called and the rules have been stacking up in favor of the passing game and points exponentially in the last decade. In the end when it comes to the Giants, you build towards your strengths, if the Giants end up being a significantly more efficient running team than passing, they should exhibit a bias towards the run game (this includes utilizing Jones there). If that is the identity they start to build and the efficiency numbers reflect that, then they should go in that direction. This would probably mean extending Barkley unless he were seeking an outrageous benchmark setting contract. They shouldn't do it out of some bullshit nostalgia about smashmouth or football dogma on "that's how you win football games". You win by doing more of what you are good at and less of what you are not without falling into a predictable pattern.
I don't think the DG draft era has been all that special.
But anyhoo, I cross referenced 2020's top 10 rushers with draft position:
rushing position/round/ total position taken
1/2/45
2/2/41
3/2/41
4/5/182
5/undrafted
6/3/73
7/2/35
8/1/24
9/1/32 * Lamar Jackson, QB
10/1/15
SB, at #2 overall seems an extravagant pick for value. That argument's time has passed, but the list above seems to indicate that a draft pick on day 2 might be a wiser expenditure than dollars, depending on how high the dollar figure is.
Even wiser is knowing how to draft and bring in FA so that after all the capital spent on an OL, we'd have one that can make an average RB look better, and the QB wouldn't spend so much time running for his life.
Does that mean there aren't any great players on bad teams?
Barkley's rookie season is overrated by you. The ball went his way over 380 times. With that much usage you'd better clear 2000 yards. Again - a play that went to Barkley gained less than the average play leaguewide (5.6 to 5.3).
You want to give Barkley credit something for that year, it should probably be that he didn't break down from overuse. But then again who knows what impact his 2018 use had on his injuries in 2019 and 2020.
I don't know how pointing that out makes me a lesser football fan. I'm also not interested in being a great fan, so have at it on that score.
Just a fucking farce at this point.
How many people really think Barkley wasn't great his rookie season, and yet you continue to go through the gymnastics to say he wasn't. Only you know why that fucking is.
Just a fucking farce at this point.
How many people really think Barkley wasn't great his rookie season, and yet you continue to go through the gymnastics to say he wasn't. Only you know why that fucking is.
Over 2000 yards from scrimmage and 15 TDs. As a rookie. Doesn’t every scrub RB do that as rookies?
So I guess Henry being under the league average per play sucks too, right?
"Easy math". You have a really strong penchant for picking and choosing specific stats and telling the board they are what makes the player bad. Just like the AY/A stat for QB's. You make it seem like that stat is fairly static and indicative of the QB when it is more of an indication of offensive efficiency.
If points are your barometer, 15 TD's is a lot of points, or do points only matter for other arguments with non-Giants?
The best example is of course a 1000 yard rusher. Not so impressive if it takes 300 carries and a 3.3 YPC.
It's fair to look at Barkley's big number in 2018 with a little bit of that angle.
On the ground, there's no way around it, he had a fantastic individual year as a running back. Lots of yards, lots of TDs, good amount of first downs.
If you believe in the intrinsic value of running the ball, this helps too because it's setting up the play action, wearing down the defense, and is a lower risk of a zero yard play. I think this is part of the argument for running the ball well later in the year.
In the air the 720 yards has to be evaluating in the context of 121 targets. More than the #2 WR. And at 6 YPT, that's pretty mediocre. 30 first downs and 4 TDs on 121 targets isn't that impressive as well.
1) We all know Barkley got a lot of targets that were extended handoffs. I don't love that type of offense. It takes away from the intrinsic value of a rush in some ways.
2) We all know Barkley got a lot of targets because the pass protection and pass game was bad. I don't love that type of target either, because it's a desperation target.
I think the more impressive stats to hang your hat one are the 11 rushing TDs and the 1300 yards. That's the goods.
In fact, I think in his three seasons too date (well, two...with the injury) he's put the ball on the ground only once.
And on third and long (or very long) Eli wouldn't give this much thought and that ball was swung out to Saquon to get some yards before the eventual punt.
If you look at two of the really impressive seasons in the air running backs have had recently, CMC in 2019 and Kamara in 2017, the efficiency is much better.
CMC was 7.1 YPT, and ridiculous 58 first downs. Kamara was 8.3 YPT and 38 first downs.
I hope a healthy Barkley is a running back primarily, and the Giants utilize their WRs and TEs downfield more. There’s no reason with Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Engram, and Rudolph — that Barkley should be 20% of the pass targets.
If you look at two of the really impressive seasons in the air running backs have had recently, CMC in 2019 and Kamara in 2017, the efficiency is much better.
CMC was 7.1 YPT, and ridiculous 58 first downs. Kamara was 8.3 YPT and 38 first downs.
I hope a healthy Barkley is a running back primarily, and the Giants utilize their WRs and TEs downfield more. There’s no reason with Golladay, Shepard, Slayton, Toney, Engram, and Rudolph — that Barkley should be 20% of the pass targets.
Yep, hopefully he is improving his pass protection because that is where the true plus yards will come when he is not the target...
Outside of character concerns (Bell) top RBs are almost always extended regardless of team record and whether or not they are 1 piece away. So it begs the question - why? Why are there so many terrible GMs out there giving these players money that they can simply replace since the position is so fungible?
People make it sound like RB's are all the same, so in their minds, anything over $5M a year is a tough thing. Just look at the way one idiot carried on about the Jonathon Stewart contract as a "fireable offense".
2) Step 2: Provide a dubious example full over errors - coming
3) Step 3. Disappear when easily called on it - coming
3) Step 3. Disappear when easily called on it - coming
So spot on.
I'm sure our Fat friend is squeezing through his escape hatch right now...
Quote:
1)
3) Step 3. Disappear when easily called on it - coming
So spot on.
I'm sure our Fat friend is squeezing through his escape hatch right now...
Is the one you used to disappear from the board for the 5-year period spanning the Super Bowls clear yet?
What is substantial?
Many of us, btw, are not comfortable with the money we shelled out for KG based on his injuries and if he's a true #1.
How long did you complain about the Williams contract negotiation? How long did you "spitball" that we'd have no money to sign any other players because we overpaid for a DT?
When the same people always bitch about every move, you'll crow about it when that player doesn't pan out. Don't hear much when the player does.
Just like your extended absence from the board. when your bitching about Eli's draft day acquisition no longer had a crowd to agree with it and the Giants won Super Bowls, your ass conveniently disappeared from here.
Is the one you used to disappear from the board for the 5-year period spanning the Super Bowls clear yet?
Can you get some new material? For someone apparently so smart, your act is very stale.
Regardless, at least I try to answer all replies direction towards me.
Unlike you, who sneaks away like a typical bully when your non-sense is challenged.
They aren't easy to find. The running game can be easily remedied IF and only IF that team has a good OL, dominant passing game and fills the RB position adequately. If any of those 3 things fall out of place, the running game will struggle.
It aint easy to fund RBs. Just because you can conjure up examples of an Ahmad Bradshaw here or Olandis Gary there doesn't make it so. You can also conjure up good left tackles that were drafted after round 1. Same with QB. Doesn't mean they are easy to find either.
How many great running games are populated with a mid to low round RB? And from that list, how many of those teams have an insanely mobile and athletic QB AND/OR have an awesome OL?
Wayne Gallman or the 2020 NYG offense is not a good example! If anything, it just further proves my point. The Giants offense sucked for most of last season. Even on its best day, it was merely functional. Wayne Fucking Gallman? You're going to bring up .5 YPC as some indicator that going from Barkley to Gallman is not that big a drop, during a NYG second half season that FINALLY saw the OL play a little bit better, all the while the team still couldn't keep defenses honest in the biggest of games, as some sort of clear cut proof that a team can win with journeymen talent at RB over the stud?
Nice try. It's way wrong but good effort.
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Is the one you used to disappear from the board for the 5-year period spanning the Super Bowls clear yet?
Can you get some new material? For someone apparently so smart, your act is very stale.
Regardless, at least I try to answer all replies direction towards me.
Unlike you, who sneaks away like a typical bully when your non-sense is challenged.
I don't think talking about stale acts is really in your favor here. Your material has been the same throughout - complain about the team and disappear when they are good.
As for sneaking away, there is a certain point in time where debates are done. Why should I have to answer every point, especially when so many of them are redundant or posed by guys just trolling.
I mean, look at the majority of Jimmy Clownshoes posts - he's just looking for a reaction - not to have a discussion.
Barkley is a weapon. He's the reason why this offense has a shot to win 11 games this season. INstead of enjoying that, you cannot wait to tear down the myth that good RBs aren't important or even essential to winning.
Look at the playoff teams every year! Nearly every single one has top flight talent at the RB or mobile QB position. That matters!
I do think RB is a position that can be had in round 2, unlike perhaps LT, but it's still a position that lends itself to being drafted in the first 2 rounds, just like any other position, save for a few exceptions, and by few I mean very few.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
We need Barkley. Like it or not. He's an extraordinary weapon and anyone who conjures up stats to diminish his ability or impact is lost. This team didn't win in the 80s until they got Joe MOrris going. They didn't win in 93 without Hampton. They didn't go anywhere in 97 without the impact from Charles Way. Nowhere in 2000-2005 without Tiki Barber. And they fall flat in 07-11 without the efforts of Jacobs and Bradshaw. If we had a big time talent at RB in 16-17 who knows what happens. Sitting here and diminishing Barkley's impact because of an injury and a bad team is fucking ridiculous. Talk about confirmation bias.
I guess we can't ask for a PIttburg Steeler type effort from that NYG defense can we.
We sucked in 2018 because the defense was comically bad. Barkley was the only thing right with that offense. That and the occasional Eli to Beckham brilliance.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
Again - these debates are fueled in part by posters like you - trolls who put out no analysis or put out no actual information. I mean just look at your sad posting history.
You were banned for being a chucklehead and immediately created a duplicate handle to return to the board and continue posting the same vapid shit. At some point in debates, the points have been made and beaten to death.
If you call bowing out using an escape hatch, what is it called when you're kicked off a board and stay? And for what purpose - to troll. Jimmy Clownshoes!
Because of the current RBs in the league, here are some very good ones who were found in the 3rd round or later.
Seattle found Chris Carson in the 7th round.
Green Bay found Aaron Jones in the 5th round.
Jacksonville found James Robinson in the undrafted pool.
Denver found Phillip Lindsey in the undrafted pool.
WFT found Antonio Gibson in the 3rd round.
Saints found Kamara in the 3rd round.
Colts found Marlon Mack in the 4th round.
Bears found David Montgomery in the 3rd round.
Hell, two of the best backs in the league right now were second round picks - Henry and Chubb.
So RBs are indeed everywhere. It's up to the personnel department to do their job and find them. Or another team definitely will.
2021: 4.8M cap hit (rookie deal)
2022: 5.2M cap hit (extension)
2023: 14.8M cap hit (extension)
2024: 16.2M cap hit (extension)
The Browns can cut Chubbs after 2023, with 4M dead money.
In this scenario, Chubbs plays the next 3 years and earns a total of 28.7M (9.6M for AAV crowd).
A very plausible outcome for Saquon Barkley over the next 3 years is a total of 26M (8.7M AAV).
2021: 10M (rookie deal)
2022: 7.1M (5th year option)
2023: 8.9M (franchise tender)
All things equal, the question the Giants will face after this year -- are Chubbs and Barkley of roughly equal value over the next 3 years.
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You run around here crying "Hypocrisy" nearly every day and then put out nonsense posts like these.
The debates are over when you get stuck in a bad position, decide it would look foolish to continue to berate others on their opinions and look for your trusty escape hatches. Nothing more...
Again - these debates are fueled in part by posters like you - trolls who put out no analysis or put out no actual information. I mean just look at your sad posting history.
You were banned for being a chucklehead and immediately created a duplicate handle to return to the board and continue posting the same vapid shit. At some point in debates, the points have been made and beaten to death.
If you call bowing out using an escape hatch, what is it called when you're kicked off a board and stay? And for what purpose - to troll. Jimmy Clownshoes!
I call it your continuing diatribe of nonsense.
The escape hatch comments getting under your skin I guess. Or again, maybe it was taking a few shots yesterday that has set you off into today's tirades.
And you do indeed need some new material. That way we can move onto making fun of something fresh when you go off berating others...