non-guaranteed money in the Rose and Noel deals. Especially Rose. He was good this year but there's a reason he was playing on much smaller contracts the last few years.
I agree with this. I was fine with Burks and Noel, but Rose scares me. There’s a reason they said he could only play around 20 minutes per game when he got here. And he hasn’t gotten younger that I know about. Oh well, not much we can do about it I guess. Hope for the best!
I’m a big fan of Burks and think that is a good deal. I also understand bringing back a good team and rewarding the contributors.
But this offseason definitely puts a different scope on last season and how they chose to utilize their cap space. That was a mistake.
Lastly the idea of preserving cap space for 2024 is outrageous. Enough with that it’s a joke.
So you want them to give out 4 year deals?
I want them and everyone to stop talking about pipedreams. Remember how heralded the 2021 FA class was 18 months ago? And then 2022 and going back to 2020 etc. Trust me if Booker or one of the other stars in 2024 want to be a Knick, they will be. It’s the current state of the NBA.
I would have been far more aggressive on the younger RFA and just younger free agents but that I still don’t hate the signings. The Fournier and Rose deals are overpays though.
Rose still has plenty to prove in my book. We will see.
Isn't that what they are doing? They are spending now and not saying next year. However, they are being smart with these contracts all expiring at the same time. So, that isn't a pipedream. That's reality. Nobody is saying we are all or nothing on FA in 2024 just that we are in position for that year.
extensions has gotten so crazy that there's almost too much risk for some of these guys to wait to enter unrestricted free agency. So many of the league's best players have never really been unrestricted free agents and entered the marketplace willing to switch teams.
Maybe 20+ years of no shot a championship and now a few more. I get it there wasn’t much they could do they had cap space ina year with no stars. And being a 5-8 seed the next few years is certainly better then every year before last year, but I really think the overachieved last year and caught teams by surprise and then got confident. I think Boston and Miami will be improved this year snd there is always a surprise team that will be good. I don’t mind the Fournier and rose signings, not exciting by not bad, but basically the same team + Fournier, hopefully a healthy Mitch and hopefully improvements from the young guys. I think putting al of that together it will still be hard to be a 4 seed again.
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
I scream no, I can’t stand Schroeder. Adding Schroeder to the current roster isn’t adding any wins they already have plenty of Schroeder type talents on the roster.
I think overall are in good place and have had a decent free agency. But my criticism is persevering cap space last year on passing on free agents, not taking bad deals for picks etc and now seeing what that cap space returned in is underwhelming. Along with the draft night moves to increase cap space.
Wish they were in on Ball, Graham, Payne etc. I have serious doubts about Rose being a starter but we will see.
I do like the Burks and Noel signings. Hoping they bring back Bullock too.
Maybe 20+ years of no shot a championship and now a few more. I get it there wasn’t much they could do they had cap space ina year with no stars. And being a 5-8 seed the next few years is certainly better then every year before last year, but I really think the overachieved last year and caught teams by surprise and then got confident. I think Boston and Miami will be improved this year snd there is always a surprise team that will be good. I don’t mind the Fournier and rose signings, not exciting by not bad, but basically the same team + Fournier, hopefully a healthy Mitch and hopefully improvements from the young guys. I think putting al of that together it will still be hard to be a 4 seed again.
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
You are also assuming none of the Knicks young players get better..
The one thing I'm really frustrated with his the lack of ability
Maybe 20+ years of no shot a championship and now a few more. I get it there wasn’t much they could do they had cap space ina year with no stars. And being a 5-8 seed the next few years is certainly better then every year before last year, but I really think the overachieved last year and caught teams by surprise and then got confident. I think Boston and Miami will be improved this year snd there is always a surprise team that will be good. I don’t mind the Fournier and rose signings, not exciting by not bad, but basically the same team + Fournier, hopefully a healthy Mitch and hopefully improvements from the young guys. I think putting al of that together it will still be hard to be a 4 seed again.
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
I don't think you are being fair to what the Knicks did last year. They weren't a fluke. With that said, yes, we are fair away from the top teams and, yes, a team like Miami will be better. Our strength will be in our depth and team play. We still need a star to make Randle the second banana but I feel better that we are getting closer.
Reggie was gonna chase every last dollar - and rightfully so. He's been in the league for a long time and never made more than $4.2. This contract more than doubles his career earnings.
Noel is not a starting center. We need Mitch and we still don’t have a starting PG, rose is an excellent backup/spot starter. If we had a real starting PG mitch would get 15 points easily every night.
Bullock can’t make lay ups, he is strictly catch and shoot 3 or pump fake dribble in long 2 point shot. That’s all he has and agree, he isa decent defender but no where near Frank. Which by the way I hope Frank is back.
at least a little interesting that they chose Burks over Bullock for nearly identical money.
I don't think so. Burks does much more. Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense and I think his defense is overrated.
Maybe, but Bullock started over Burks.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just interesting.
And Payton started over Rose and IQ. Burks is more of a 3 and Bullock a 2 imo and I think that is why. Plus, Payton drives to the hoop, Randle handles the ball, RJ can drive and hang back. That starting unit needed a guy to stretch the defense. Burks with the second unit was more flexible. He was another guy that could facilitate, especially before we got Rose.
Noel is not a starting center. We need Mitch and we still don’t have a starting PG, rose is an excellent backup/spot starter. If we had a real starting PG mitch would get 15 points easily every night.
He’s going to want more money than he’s worth in a year and seems like there’s some maturity stuff going on there.
the second person who said Burks is a 3. He's 6'5 and is a ball handler. He's more 1/2 than 2/3.
He's not a PG. He can't guard the position like he can the 3 but if depends on matchups. Why do you keep saying he is a 1/2? He played the 2/3 all year.
Played a lot of PG in the 4th quarter down the stretch.
If noels is worth $10 million, then Mitch has to easily be worth $15 million. To me when healthy mitch is twice the player Noel is, I know everyone gets excited about blocks but Noel struggled as an on the ball defender again at bigger centers and is awful on offenses he makes mitch look like karl Malone on offense.
but he was the primary ball handler for that bench unit, often over Rose.
It isn't semantics. You are trying to call him a 1. He's not. Just because Randle handles the ball doesn't mean he is a 1. Burks wasn't the primary ball handler with the second unit. He handled if occasionally and I was calling for him to do it more to get Payton's minutes down and when we had injuries/covid. He has the ability to handle the ball which is why I like him on this team. I have been saying for two years now we need more PG/ball handlers not less. Just because IQ can be a point doesn't mean he should. There were two different IQs this year and when his role changed his shot was way off. He had a bad slump and for a good portion of that Burks was not handling the ball until about 3 quarters of the way through the season.
year of patching it together at PG. Hopefully Vildoza and/or Quickley can give them good minutes. They never had a chance at Paul and I woudln't have gone near Lowery at that number he got - but I think pursuing Dinwiddie or Graham would have been worthwhile. There's been so many missed opportunities at that position - it's getting old.
I’m Still holding out hope there’s a trade in the works. Maybe the Knicks wanted to try FA first and if it fell through they would find that PG via trade. Or maybe I’m nuts... I guess they could just be happy with Rose and continue to develop IQ. Maybe they want to play IQ big minutes but I’d feel a lot better about the backcourt if one more playmaking guard was brought in. I wanted a shooter and playmaker/ facilitator this offseason.
but he was the primary ball handler for that bench unit, often over Rose.
It isn't semantics. You are trying to call him a 1. He's not. Just because Randle handles the ball doesn't mean he is a 1. Burks wasn't the primary ball handler with the second unit. He handled if occasionally and I was calling for him to do it more to get Payton's minutes down and when we had injuries/covid. He has the ability to handle the ball which is why I like him on this team. I have been saying for two years now we need more PG/ball handlers not less. Just because IQ can be a point doesn't mean he should. There were two different IQs this year and when his role changed his shot was way off. He had a bad slump and for a good portion of that Burks was not handling the ball until about 3 quarters of the way through the season.
Calling him a 1/2 or a 2/3 is absolutely semantics. It's all fluid.
He functions as a PG on the team. You take both stances in your post so I'm really not sure where you're landing on this issue but it feels like you're debating on this just for the sake of debating.
Burks is a better offensive player, Bullock is a better defensive player. It'll be interesting to see who is more valuable since they're a nearly identical age and salary hit. That was my only (fairly innocuous) point lol.
To play Obi and Randle at the same time for a couple of minutes here and there. Make teams adapt to us. Also, Randle doesn't need to play 40 min per night. It would also benefit this team to not be so reliant on him so we don't have another Hawks situation again. When they shut Randle down we had no answer for 5 games.
I agree with this. I was fine with Burks and Noel, but Rose scares me. There’s a reason they said he could only play around 20 minutes per game when he got here. And he hasn’t gotten younger that I know about. Oh well, not much we can do about it I guess. Hope for the best!
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In comment 15320411 TyreeHelmet said:
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I’m a big fan of Burks and think that is a good deal. I also understand bringing back a good team and rewarding the contributors.
But this offseason definitely puts a different scope on last season and how they chose to utilize their cap space. That was a mistake.
Lastly the idea of preserving cap space for 2024 is outrageous. Enough with that it’s a joke.
So you want them to give out 4 year deals?
I want them and everyone to stop talking about pipedreams. Remember how heralded the 2021 FA class was 18 months ago? And then 2022 and going back to 2020 etc. Trust me if Booker or one of the other stars in 2024 want to be a Knick, they will be. It’s the current state of the NBA.
I would have been far more aggressive on the younger RFA and just younger free agents but that I still don’t hate the signings. The Fournier and Rose deals are overpays though.
Rose still has plenty to prove in my book. We will see.
Isn't that what they are doing? They are spending now and not saying next year. However, they are being smart with these contracts all expiring at the same time. So, that isn't a pipedream. That's reality. Nobody is saying we are all or nothing on FA in 2024 just that we are in position for that year.
Who says no?
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
Who says no?
I do. Why would we SnT fir Schroeder when we could have signed him outright?
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Vildoza to the Lakers for Schroeder S&T at a 3 year 50 mil deal.
Who says no?
I do. Why would we SnT fir Schroeder when we could have signed him outright?
Because you couldn't have also signed everyone else.
Wish they were in on Ball, Graham, Payne etc. I have serious doubts about Rose being a starter but we will see.
I do like the Burks and Noel signings. Hoping they bring back Bullock too.
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
You are also assuming none of the Knicks young players get better..
Atlanta, nets, bucks, Sixers and heat are def a big step above knicks.
I don't think you are being fair to what the Knicks did last year. They weren't a fluke. With that said, yes, we are fair away from the top teams and, yes, a team like Miami will be better. Our strength will be in our depth and team play. We still need a star to make Randle the second banana but I feel better that we are getting closer.
Yeah it's a massive hole.
Rose/IQ/Burks/Obi/Taj is a super fun bench mob but the lack of a starting PG is such a massive hole. Rose just can't play those minutes anymore.
He fell to 36 for a reason. Not reasonable to expect anything out of him or Grimes this year.
Reggie was gonna chase every last dollar - and rightfully so. He's been in the league for a long time and never made more than $4.2. This contract more than doubles his career earnings.
I don't think so. Burks does much more. Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense and I think his defense is overrated.
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at least a little interesting that they chose Burks over Bullock for nearly identical money.
I don't think so. Burks does much more. Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense and I think his defense is overrated.
Maybe, but Bullock started over Burks.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just interesting.
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In comment 15320468 Jon in NYC said:
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at least a little interesting that they chose Burks over Bullock for nearly identical money.
I don't think so. Burks does much more. Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense and I think his defense is overrated.
Maybe, but Bullock started over Burks.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just interesting.
i wonder if Trae hiding on Bullock had something to do with it, he was a spot up shooter and that wa sit..
whose trae hiding on now?
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In comment 15320468 Jon in NYC said:
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at least a little interesting that they chose Burks over Bullock for nearly identical money.
I don't think so. Burks does much more. Bullock is strictly a catch and shoot guy on offense and I think his defense is overrated.
Maybe, but Bullock started over Burks.
Not saying it's right or wrong, just interesting.
And Payton started over Rose and IQ. Burks is more of a 3 and Bullock a 2 imo and I think that is why. Plus, Payton drives to the hoop, Randle handles the ball, RJ can drive and hang back. That starting unit needed a guy to stretch the defense. Burks with the second unit was more flexible. He was another guy that could facilitate, especially before we got Rose.
He’s going to want more money than he’s worth in a year and seems like there’s some maturity stuff going on there.
Fournier unlike bullock can actually create a shot
He can play the 3 though. He did plenty last year in lineups with Rose and Quickley
He's not a PG. He can't guard the position like he can the 3 but if depends on matchups. Why do you keep saying he is a 1/2? He played the 2/3 all year.
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-?-McBride
If noels is worth $10 million, then Mitch has to easily be worth $15 million. To me when healthy mitch is twice the player Noel is, I know everyone gets excited about blocks but Noel struggled as an on the ball defender again at bigger centers and is awful on offenses he makes mitch look like karl Malone on offense.
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-?-McBride
Sorry - left out Burks!
Mitch-Randle-Fournier-RJ-Luca
Noel-Obi-Burks-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-Grimes-McBride
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-?-McBride
Remember, Thibs only likes to use an 8 or 9 man roatation.
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-?-McBride
What makes you think Luca will start? I’m not even convinced he’ll be on the roster at the start of the season
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Mitch-Randle-Fournier-RJ-Luca
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
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Remember, Thibs only likes to use an 8 or 9 man roatation.
he used 10 all year last year
Not it. There are teams which can’t keep who they have.
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Mitch-Randle-Fournier-RJ-Luca
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What makes you think Luca will start? I’m not even convinced he’ll be on the roster at the start of the season
Just my guess. Rose will have to come off the bench to conserve his legs. McBride is not ready. IQ is not really a PG.
It isn't semantics. You are trying to call him a 1. He's not. Just because Randle handles the ball doesn't mean he is a 1. Burks wasn't the primary ball handler with the second unit. He handled if occasionally and I was calling for him to do it more to get Payton's minutes down and when we had injuries/covid. He has the ability to handle the ball which is why I like him on this team. I have been saying for two years now we need more PG/ball handlers not less. Just because IQ can be a point doesn't mean he should. There were two different IQs this year and when his role changed his shot was way off. He had a bad slump and for a good portion of that Burks was not handling the ball until about 3 quarters of the way through the season.
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In comment 15320483 Del Shofner said:
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Mitch-Randle-Fournier-RJ-Luca
Noel-Obi-Grimes-IQ-Rose
Sims-Simms-Knox-?-McBride
Remember, Thibs only likes to use an 8 or 9 man roatation.
he used 10 all year last year
Because Payton was garbage. Lol. But I am going by what Thibs has said himself. In interviews he said ideally he has an 8 to 9 man rotation.
It’s been like this for decades.
Noel-Obi-Burks-IQ-McBride
Sims-Simms-Knox-Grimes-Luca
I’m Still holding out hope there’s a trade in the works. Maybe the Knicks wanted to try FA first and if it fell through they would find that PG via trade. Or maybe I’m nuts... I guess they could just be happy with Rose and continue to develop IQ. Maybe they want to play IQ big minutes but I’d feel a lot better about the backcourt if one more playmaking guard was brought in. I wanted a shooter and playmaker/ facilitator this offseason.
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but he was the primary ball handler for that bench unit, often over Rose.
It isn't semantics. You are trying to call him a 1. He's not. Just because Randle handles the ball doesn't mean he is a 1. Burks wasn't the primary ball handler with the second unit. He handled if occasionally and I was calling for him to do it more to get Payton's minutes down and when we had injuries/covid. He has the ability to handle the ball which is why I like him on this team. I have been saying for two years now we need more PG/ball handlers not less. Just because IQ can be a point doesn't mean he should. There were two different IQs this year and when his role changed his shot was way off. He had a bad slump and for a good portion of that Burks was not handling the ball until about 3 quarters of the way through the season.
Calling him a 1/2 or a 2/3 is absolutely semantics. It's all fluid.
He functions as a PG on the team. You take both stances in your post so I'm really not sure where you're landing on this issue but it feels like you're debating on this just for the sake of debating.
Burks is a better offensive player, Bullock is a better defensive player. It'll be interesting to see who is more valuable since they're a nearly identical age and salary hit. That was my only (fairly innocuous) point lol.