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Don’t worry about Daniel Jones. Yet.

Marty in Albany : 8/2/2021 9:33 pm
If you are worried because Jones has not completed a lot of passes in training camp, I would not worry. He has not had problems completing passes in the past.

His problem has been turnovers. Interceptions and fumbles. Hopefully this problem has been addressed by improving his offensive line and by adding some pretty good receivers. If the interceptions and fumbles continue, then it will be time for us to worry.
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What victory laps  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2021 4:49 pm : link
?
RE: I'm optimistic absolutely  
Brown_Hornet : 8/5/2021 4:58 pm : link
In comment 15323748 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
I won't have any problems enjoying this season if they aren't garbage
I'm enjoying the offseason.
I'm even warming up to DG...partly because he's made what appears to be multiple positive moves in the past 2 offseasons. He is also working well with JJ.

I will admit, I'm also beginning to like him because it tweeks the miserable lot that can't go a week without denigrating him.

This has been a great offseason for the Giants. You stated that the Giants need to win the Super Bowl in order to not be the laughing stock of the league...
...I don't know how you manage to fit that much hyperbole in the room but as I have said...

You be you.

RE: I'm optimistic absolutely  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 5:03 pm : link
In comment 15323748 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
I just think some are getting way ahead of themselves. And are going to act like this season was a success even if the moves don't pan out because on paper we should be more excited about this team.

I'm also quite concerned about the way Mara recently talked about DG, seems like he might stay employed even if there is another disappointing season. And I'd like to avoid the overall idea that he's done everything right and him and Judge are this fantastic team and should stay if the results aren't there.

I'm more optimistic about this season than I've been in a while, I just am really hoping if Jones drags the team down it's the end of the DG era. And not the beginning of the Abrams or other crony hire era.

My biggest concern is the victory laps being taken by the pro-DG crowd before this team has accomplished anything. I won't have any problems enjoying this season if they aren't garbage


NGD - you are kind of all over the board on this now.

After going thru a few soliloquies earlier and concerning yourself about Browns fans ridiculing your team, you are now stating you are as optimistic as ever. If its truly the latter then good...you're all set to watch the season.

And coming from the biggest DG critic on this board, I seldom see anyone seriously taking victory laps. They would be doing it to goad a reaction if so and only wind up looking foolish. Plenty of DG defenders mind you, but very few brave enough to take laps. Most have converted to Judge advocates anyway because confidence in that GM, by himself, smartly fell out of favor.
I'm optimistic about them not being terrible  
NoGainDayne : 8/5/2021 5:20 pm : link
doesn't mean I think they have the right people in charge, especially outside of Judge.

And am not feeling great about Jones or what a commitment to Jones could do for the overall success of the team.

As for Brown Hornet and DG, they've been the worst team in the league since he's been hired. The Giants have had a total of 37 wins in 8 seasons since the Super Bowl victory or about 4.6 a year. You aren't witnessing any discomfort with DG it's his performance that makes many squirm.

I was skeptical from the start yes, but would have loved for him to do well and prove me wrong. I would have come to enjoy his terrible media presence even if he was any good at his job.
RE: Huh??  
Scooter185 : 8/5/2021 5:29 pm : link
In comment 15323744 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"The lack of tangible success to be prideful of"??

You do realize there is a wealth of NFL history here, not some blip or dry stretch that fully defines an organization, right? If I go back to Ancient times, I'd get the impression Greece was the leader of all mankind.

The Giants are one of the most successful teams in the NFL. Combined titles and Super Bowls put's them in the Top 5 of all teams. A Super Bowl win in every decade from the 80's on. The team is dripping with tangible success. I'd suggest trapping you in a trophy case wedged behind 4 Lombardi's might give some perspective on that.

The rambling commentary and brash proclamations of having a plan mean exactly what in a historical perspective? I've seen 4 Super Bowl wins in my lifetime by this franchise. What exactly am I supposed to be ashamed of? What bitching and protesting am I supposed to do to scream "I AM NOT ENTERTAINED!!" like a Roman Gladiator (Another pinnacle of society in the early days)

That's what I don't get about people who proclaim themselves "realists". They snub their nose at history and the expectation is they will follow a perfect organization. One that makes the right moves and is a perennial winner. And there's still not a team that does that. And before I hear a peep about New England, ask their fans how they felt from 1964 to 1975 where they had two winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Or even from 1987 to 1993.

Calling people polyannas who hope the team does well is a farce when the realistic view is the expectation the team will be run flawlessly and win consistently - something that isn't done. The Carolina Panthers, who have been in existence since 1994 have never had back to back winning seasons. Never. What is their recourse? The Cowboys haven't won anything of note since 1995 so should they have stormed AT&T and ripped Skeletor out by his clavicle?


Wait so does that mean Yankees fans can't be critical of the team ever because they've won 27 championships?

Past success doesn't excuse current failure
Yankees threads are also a disaster  
UConn4523 : 8/5/2021 5:31 pm : link
thanks for pointing that out. If you didn't follow the MLB and just glanced at a thread you'd think they are 20 games under .500
Nobody is feeling 'great' about Jones  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 5:31 pm : link
but if he isn't the guy then you won't have to concern yourself with Gettleman anyway. Nobody will ever let him pick another QB.

And if Jones becomes the guy, then they can extend him and DG may just very well go off into the sunset and hang out with his buddy Kelvin Benjamin on a beach somewhere...
RE: Yankees threads are also a disaster  
Scooter185 : 8/5/2021 5:43 pm : link
In comment 15323795 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
thanks for pointing that out. If you didn't follow the MLB and just glanced at a thread you'd think they are 20 games under .500


Lol well I don't often participate in the Yankees threads here, yeah I've seen that before. The first half of the year the criticism has certainly been warranted though.
RE: Nobody is feeling 'great' about Jones  
NoGainDayne : 8/5/2021 5:46 pm : link
In comment 15323796 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but if he isn't the guy then you won't have to concern yourself with Gettleman anyway. Nobody will ever let him pick another QB.

And if Jones becomes the guy, then they can extend him and DG may just very well go off into the sunset and hang out with his buddy Kelvin Benjamin on a beach somewhere...


I have serious doubts about Jones having a mediocre to bad season and both him and DG hanging around but I'd LOVE to be wrong about that

Possible  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 5:55 pm : link
but not plausible
The fact that DG still has a job is a minor miracle  
NoGainDayne : 8/5/2021 5:58 pm : link
and despite that horrible record Mara showed little to no interest in talking about him being on a leash. If anything he showed more interest last season.
Scooter..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/5/2021 6:19 pm : link
you are missing my point about the success:

Quote:
Wait so does that mean Yankees fans can't be critical of the team ever because they've won 27 championships?

Past success doesn't excuse current failure


It isn't about being critical. It is the act that the team is an abject failure and that there's been no tangible record of success. If somebody says the Yankees are the worst franchise in the MLB and are getting laughed at by Pirate fans and acts like the team is dogshit year in and out, they should get ridiculed, especially if their tone is that the team will never get better with the people in charge.

Again - taking a snapshot of any franchise in any sport at their lowest point or during a dry stretch is going to look really bad., yet people still remain fans.

The folly is thinking that if the Yankees do poorly that I can post on a message board ripping Cashman and ownership and thinking they have a mandate to act upon my bitching. That if there is positive comments about a young pitcher, that they are being said just to protect a fragile psyche. That, as a fan, I need a plan.

I watch the games. I follow the team. How that translates to success or failure or better yet, thinking that it translates to having an impact is simply delusional.
With our OL  
Carl in CT : 8/5/2021 6:31 pm : link
This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.
RE: With our OL  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 6:37 pm : link
In comment 15323845 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.


Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.
I think all this talk about DG is moot  
cosmicj : 8/5/2021 6:41 pm : link
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
Go Terps : 8/5/2021 7:00 pm : link
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.


I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).

I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
RE: RE: With our OL  
christian : 8/5/2021 7:11 pm : link
In comment 15323852 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15323845 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.



Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.


Two of the starters are not the same, so this calculus is a little more complicated than this, no?
RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
NoGainDayne : 8/5/2021 7:18 pm : link
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.


All fine and good. But if it's Abrams next that would signal that it's going to be more similar to DG than not IMO.

I'd have no issue with O'Brien taking over
RE: Scooter..  
Scooter185 : 8/5/2021 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15323839 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you are missing my point about the success:



Quote:


Wait so does that mean Yankees fans can't be critical of the team ever because they've won 27 championships?

Past success doesn't excuse current failure



It isn't about being critical. It is the act that the team is an abject failure and that there's been no tangible record of success. If somebody says the Yankees are the worst franchise in the MLB and are getting laughed at by Pirate fans and acts like the team is dogshit year in and out, they should get ridiculed, especially if their tone is that the team will never get better with the people in charge.

Again - taking a snapshot of any franchise in any sport at their lowest point or during a dry stretch is going to look really bad., yet people still remain fans.

The folly is thinking that if the Yankees do poorly that I can post on a message board ripping Cashman and ownership and thinking they have a mandate to act upon my bitching. That if there is positive comments about a young pitcher, that they are being said just to protect a fragile psyche. That, as a fan, I need a plan.

I watch the games. I follow the team. How that translates to success or failure or better yet, thinking that it translates to having an impact is simply delusional.


Imagine the Yankees of the late 80s and early 90s, especially after a Mets title, with social media.

I understand that what's posted here, on Twitter, etc means nothing at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I can't be upset with how the team has played, been constructed, and run even though I've seen more titles than some teams combined
RE: RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2021 7:38 pm : link
In comment 15323883 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.



All fine and good. But if it's Abrams next that would signal that it's going to be more similar to DG than not IMO.

I'd have no issue with O'Brien taking over

This is such BS. You don’t know the first thing about how Abrams would conduct business. Abrams and DG have nothing in common other than they are in the organization. Which I realize is your hang up. If he’s part of this organization in any capacity he’s part of the problem. Got it.

Abrams is a cap guy. It doesn’t take a super genius to figure out that if he were to take over, it’s with the idea the coaching staff would have a ton of input into roster construction. Well, they already do, but that would go against your narrative that DG is the devil. I’m not a fan of Gettleman. Would prefer someone else. But that dude never stood a chance here from the time he was hired because he’s not a computer geek. Let’s not act like you want him fired because of the performance. You wanted him fired the second he walked through the door. Because he doesn’t look and sound like you. That is a fact.
RE: RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
Mike in NY : 8/5/2021 7:39 pm : link
In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.



I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).

I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.


What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?
RE: RE: RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
Go Terps : 8/5/2021 7:53 pm : link
In comment 15323898 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.



I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).

I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.



What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?


Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/5/2021 7:57 pm : link
In comment 15323909 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15323898 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.



I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).

I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.



What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?



Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.


OH dear -- Lol -- Go Panic dude!
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think all this talk about DG is moot  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2021 8:02 pm : link
In comment 15323909 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15323898 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:


Quote:


He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.



I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).

I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.



What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?



Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.

Haha. This is great. You simply cannot make this shit up.
My problem with Abrams and DG are the same  
NoGainDayne : 8/5/2021 8:02 pm : link
they move forward a power structure and overall mode of thinking that has proven to be quite ineffective over a long period of time. That's the common thread. If Abrams or anyone was so very good at their jobs how could the Giants have been this bad? Nothing about the way they handle the cap or trades, my understanding of his oversight stands out one bit.

As for this gem of a quote
Quote:
I’m not a fan of Gettleman. Would prefer someone else. But that dude never stood a chance here from the time he was hired because he’s not a computer geek.


Couldn't miss me by more. I actually value leadership above all else. Good leaders are accountable, they are open minded, they want to soak in new ideas and never miss any potential edge.

DG graded quite poorly in my book because of the way he discussed ideas and the structure of the organization around and below him. Yes, the way he acted and spoke, I rated it highly likely that the Giants would continue to lag behind on innovation, I spoke out about that and it wasn't the hardest prediction to make. It's good to understand all the potential innovations, explore them, hire the right team to put you in a place where you can get ahead. I don't want a "geek" I want someone who unlike DG has a curiosity for what he doesn't know, instead of acting like he has all the answers. That pompous fake keyboarding was everything that is wrong with him.
Very..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/5/2021 8:04 pm : link
odd to have confidence in Judge drop if he thinks that Jones is the right QB, but no reaction to Judge going into a season where several weapons were added with a QB he shouldn't want.

If I was going to ding Judge for keeping Jones past this year (without even knowing how the fuck Jones does this year), I'd absolutely rip Judge for going into a year on a QB he doesn't believe in.

Luckily my mind doesn't fuck with me like that...
If we stick with Jones long term we're going to keep losing  
Go Terps : 8/5/2021 8:08 pm : link
.
RE: If we stick with Jones long term we're going to keep losing  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/5/2021 8:11 pm : link
In comment 15323923 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.


Why do I picture this guy? Just a fucking joke at this point. A meme

RE: If we stick with Jones long term we're going to keep losing  
BigBlueShock : 8/5/2021 8:15 pm : link
In comment 15323923 Go Terps said:
Quote:
.

Well, that’s that! Google search “stats” has spoken! Evaluation complete. No need to see any more! Judge is an idiot. Its obvious to any nerd that’s gone to Pro Football Reference to evaluate players. I’ve lost confidence in Judge. Because posters that have probably never even put their hand on a football, let alone play the game at any level, make evaluations on Google.

Fire everyone!!!
RE: RE: RE: With our OL  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 9:08 pm : link
In comment 15323876 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15323852 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15323845 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.



Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.



Two of the starters are not the same, so this calculus is a little more complicated than this, no?


I am on the fence about that one. . .
RE: RE: Huh??  
Brown_Hornet : 8/5/2021 9:12 pm : link
In comment 15323794 Scooter185 said:
Quote:


Past success doesn't excuse current failure

I completely agree...
... And past failure doesn't define future success.
RE: RE: RE: Huh??  
Scooter185 : 8/5/2021 9:30 pm : link
In comment 15323974 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
In comment 15323794 Scooter185 said:


Quote:




Past success doesn't excuse current failure


I completely agree...
... And past failure doesn't define future success.


No it does not, but usually there's usually a noticable inflection point for when the turn from bad to good happens. Is there JJ hire that inflection point? Personally I think more changes are needed
Any discourse that you care to jump in and comment on above?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 9:40 pm : link
Seems like a good opportunity...
Yes  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 9:45 pm : link
I agree with Scooter 🛵
RE: Yes  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 9:50 pm : link
In comment 15324007 crick n NC said:
Quote:
I agree with Scooter 🛵


Of course Scooter is right.

But I meant further up with the nice pic and comment. Here’s your chance...
It looks like  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 9:53 pm : link
A planet of the Apes picture from what I can tell, hopefully the movie signed off on posting that picture here.
Well then things are still accurate but not celebrated.  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 10:07 pm : link
Maybe another opportunity will avail itself...
Yes  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 10:17 pm : link
I treat you differently than other posters. We had already established that.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/5/2021 10:22 pm : link
you wonder why people call you out for trying to start shit and not knowing how to present any analyses.

BBI's version of Pat Leonard - Jimmy Clownshoes
RE: Yes  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 10:34 pm : link
In comment 15324034 crick n NC said:
Quote:
I treat you differently than other posters. We had already established that.


Discourse...
RE: And..  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 10:36 pm : link
In comment 15324041 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
you wonder why people call you out for trying to start shit and not knowing how to present any analyses.

BBI's version of Pat Leonard - Jimmy Clownshoes


Some people just need to put down the pitchforks I guess...
.  
crick n NC : 8/5/2021 10:37 pm : link
Well, this is weird.
Didn’t think so  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 10:51 pm : link
.
RE: RE: …  
Jay on the Island : 8/5/2021 11:18 pm : link
In comment 15321972 Dr. D said:
Quote:


Reasonable people don’t pretend to have so much knowledge or a crystal ball. Reasonable people acknowledge that Jones has shown some flashes (set some records as a rookie) and had a long list of shit going against him in his 2nd year. Reasonable people know that whether he's our franchise QB for the next 10 years is still TBD.

The idea that a coach like Joe Judge is willing to fail this year and wait until next yr to address the QB position, makes no sense to me. He's turning over the bottom 5 of the roster like i don’t know if I've seen before, but we're supposed to believe he went through this past offseason and draft just waiting for NEXT year to think about QB? Right.

The more reasonable explanation is that Judge really believes in Jones (like he says he does), he saw the flashes, understands all the shit Jones had going against him and thinks with more weapons, more experience/coaching and improved OL, Jones could be the guy. We will see.

That was a great post Doc. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
No one will know what JJ thinks of Jones.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/6/2021 7:47 am : link
It's the QB he inherited while accepting one of the 32 most coveted jobs in sports.

What he says in public is moot. He would not be doing his job if he wasn't saying all the right things to support him and cultivate his success. He might be wild about the guy. He might simply think Jones is the best QB option available right now.
Yes...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/6/2021 9:03 am : link
...coaches toe the line...but let's not get all Q about it and allow ourselves to assume that leadership is automatically all bad simply because it is possible that they might soften a stance out of support for the team.
year 2 or 3? - ( New Window )
RE: …  
santacruzom : 8/6/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15322416 christian said:
Quote:

God bless him and I like him as a poster, but if Go Terps had the posting style of DJM I think some BBIers would explode.


Is the current number of Terps-inspired BBI'er explosions somehow unimpressive to you? :)
RE: Didn’t think so  
crick n NC : 8/7/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15324077 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
.


Googs, I have reflected upon your point and admit that it is a valid point. When it comes to other people's behavior I should just keep quiet. It is not like I do not have many things to work on with myself.

My apologies.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 8/7/2021 12:39 pm : link
I think you're perfect, crick.
RE: .....  
crick n NC : 8/7/2021 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15325240 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I think you're perfect, crick.


Well Brett, any perfection I have obtained is due to the source, BrettNYG10.
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