If you are worried because Jones has not completed a lot of passes in training camp, I would not worry. He has not had problems completing passes in the past.
His problem has been turnovers. Interceptions and fumbles. Hopefully this problem has been addressed by improving his offensive line and by adding some pretty good receivers. If the interceptions and fumbles continue, then it will be time for us to worry.
those two years of games aren't a good sample size for ya? jones stinks.
Much has changed since those first two years. The Giants have taken steps to improve their offensive line and give Jones better weapons than he's had in the past in this, his second year in Garrett's offense. So, no, those two years are not a good sample size.
I haven't seen any evidence of that yet but will be interesting to watch as the OL matures and grows.
IF he can keep his eyes downfield and scramble out of the pocket for positive gains in specific, guided situations, then I don't think we have much to worry about with Daniel.
He will be fine.
He will be fine.
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for DJ.
DBs have the early advantage, too many red-zone packages, climate change, new receivers, still developing OL, SB isn't ready yet, etc.
Exactly. Because pointing out mitigating circumstances is, sadly, the Mark of the Homer.
Ignoring them to push a narrative is simply the Mark of the Enlightened.
Me? I'll just relax and see how things play out over time. I figure that's the Mark of the Patient.
Being "Patient" and having a "Wait and See" attitude are frowned upon in the land of bbi.
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In comment 15320552 bw in dc said:
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for DJ.
DBs have the early advantage, too many red-zone packages, climate change, new receivers, still developing OL, SB isn't ready yet, etc.
Exactly. Because pointing out mitigating circumstances is, sadly, the Mark of the Homer.
Ignoring them to push a narrative is simply the Mark of the Enlightened.
Me? I'll just relax and see how things play out over time. I figure that's the Mark of the Patient.
Being "Patient" and having a "Wait and See" attitude are frowned upon in the land of bbi.
It isn't that they are frowned upon on BBI. The cost of the 5th year option is prohibitive especially on a QB that is not the long term answer. As the NFL forces the decision whether or not to exercise after Year 3, you no longer have the ability to take a "wait and see" approach. I get that where we drafted in 2021 was not conducive to selecting a QB of the future, but we have the ammunition in 2022. Everyone would love to see Jones turn the corner, but it is concerning that in his third preaseason and second in the same system he is still having accuracy issues.
I think that's the exact point people are poking at when they talk about patience or even having something tangible to evaluate.
It is his third camp, but in reality, little to nothing is known about this camp so far.
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In comment 15320674 Klaatu said:
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In comment 15320552 bw in dc said:
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for DJ.
DBs have the early advantage, too many red-zone packages, climate change, new receivers, still developing OL, SB isn't ready yet, etc.
Exactly. Because pointing out mitigating circumstances is, sadly, the Mark of the Homer.
Ignoring them to push a narrative is simply the Mark of the Enlightened.
Me? I'll just relax and see how things play out over time. I figure that's the Mark of the Patient.
Being "Patient" and having a "Wait and See" attitude are frowned upon in the land of bbi.
It isn't that they are frowned upon on BBI. The cost of the 5th year option is prohibitive especially on a QB that is not the long term answer. As the NFL forces the decision whether or not to exercise after Year 3, you no longer have the ability to take a "wait and see" approach. I get that where we drafted in 2021 was not conducive to selecting a QB of the future, but we have the ammunition in 2022. Everyone would love to see Jones turn the corner, but it is concerning that in his third preaseason and second in the same system he is still having accuracy issues.
Accuracy issues? That is not his problem. It is turnovers, pocket awareness and possibly coverage recognition.
Thank God you guts aren't scrutinized in your jobs like these guys are... By your norms you'd all be unemployed
Also, are you trying to make the case that because the Giants have to make a decision about his 5th year in his 4th year, that we cannot be patient before his 3rd year even starts?
Chill out...~
Also, are you trying to make the case that because the Giants have to make a decision about his 5th year in his 4th year, that we cannot be patient before his 3rd year even starts?
Chill out...~
The decision needs to be made after this year, but if he is not the solution the sooner we get a replacement reps with the first team offense the sooner they will be ready to go when called upon to start.
Haha, did you think the peanut gallery was going to let you get away with typing that?
As you can see, the pile-on has already begun...
That's a joke right? "Concerning?" Because he overthrew a few players in drills at the beginning of training camp? Seriously?
I guess there's really no reason at all for training camp or a pre-season. Why bother having players shake some rust off and get in sync with each other? They should just start the season immediately, right? I mean what happens during an 11 on 11 drill is obviously exactly what will happen during the season, so why bother?
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...?
Also, are you trying to make the case that because the Giants have to make a decision about his 5th year in his 4th year, that we cannot be patient before his 3rd year even starts?
Chill out...~
The decision needs to be made after this year, but if he is not the solution the sooner we get a replacement reps with the first team offense the sooner they will be ready to go when called upon to start.
Be patient and allow JJ to develop his players.
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In comment 15320674 Klaatu said:
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In comment 15320552 bw in dc said:
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for DJ.
DBs have the early advantage, too many red-zone packages, climate change, new receivers, still developing OL, SB isn't ready yet, etc.
Exactly. Because pointing out mitigating circumstances is, sadly, the Mark of the Homer.
Ignoring them to push a narrative is simply the Mark of the Enlightened.
Me? I'll just relax and see how things play out over time. I figure that's the Mark of the Patient.
Being "Patient" and having a "Wait and See" attitude are frowned upon in the land of bbi.
It isn't that they are frowned upon on BBI. The cost of the 5th year option is prohibitive especially on a QB that is not the long term answer. As the NFL forces the decision whether or not to exercise after Year 3, you no longer have the ability to take a "wait and see" approach. I get that where we drafted in 2021 was not conducive to selecting a QB of the future, but we have the ammunition in 2022. Everyone would love to see Jones turn the corner, but it is concerning that in his third preaseason and second in the same system he is still having accuracy issues.
But, I don't find it concerning that he may be struggling in camp. That is the problem; your wait and see and my wait and see are different. You telling others that wait see time is over is the problem.
End Result: The Steelers won the Super Bowl and while Ben had a terrible Super Bowl, he was instrumental in them getting there and played well on that run.
LOL. Very true. There was a thread started about how great Dak looks and the reaction was that were screwed this season having to face him again.
His issues are pocket awareness and fumbles.
His issues are pocket awareness and fumbles.
It comes from not understanding context, either from the beat reports or making judgements based on tweets.
The first few practices were almost exclusively for red zone plays and a heavy focus on corner fades. Those will have a much lower chance to succeed than other routes. Even more so if the defense knows it is coming.
But this time of year, people take any news and reports and run with it.
✔
@ZackBlatt
Kadarius Toney’s first target of camp is a drop. Progress that he’s participating at least. #Giants
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Zack Rosenblatt
✔
@ZackBlatt
Kadarius Toney’s first target of camp is a drop. Progress that he’s participating at least. #Giants
Can’t believe they actually report this shit.
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"accuracy issues" comments. That's one thing that Jones actually doesn't have an issue with. He's been solidly accurate thus far in his career, especially the 20 yards and under. 61.9 and 62.5 years 1 and 2.
His issues are pocket awareness and fumbles.
It comes from not understanding context, either from the beat reports or making judgements based on tweets.
The first few practices were almost exclusively for red zone plays and a heavy focus on corner fades. Those will have a much lower chance to succeed than other routes. Even more so if the defense knows it is coming.
But this time of year, people take any news and reports and run with it.
I find the frustrating part is when a fan introduces a reasonable explanation it gets treated as an excuse.
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Zack Rosenblatt
✔
@ZackBlatt
Kadarius Toney’s first target of camp is a drop. Progress that he’s participating at least. #Giants
Same guy reported Benjamin's account of us giving him a tryout as a hoax.
This isn't paparazzi level bad by any means but I can't imaging doing this for a living. Talk about useless.
And then that same poster will turn around and call those pointing out a shaky OL, a lack of WR separation, no camp last season and a new offense (to go along with a TE who was part of more than half the INT's thrown) excuse makers for Jones. And then say "show me".
Why, so you can shit on him when he does - like the way a poster did to Jones rookie season saying he's only played 5 decent games in his career?
And then that same poster will turn around and call those pointing out a shaky OL, a lack of WR separation, no camp last season and a new offense (to go along with a TE who was part of more than half the INT's thrown) excuse makers for Jones. And then say "show me".
Why, so you can shit on him when he does - like the way a poster did to Jones rookie season saying he's only played 5 decent games in his career?
And then that same poster will turn around and call those pointing out a shaky OL, a lack of WR separation, no camp last season and a new offense (to go along with a TE who was part of more than half the INT's thrown) excuse makers for Jones. And then say "show me".
Why, so you can shit on him when he does - like the way a poster did to Jones rookie season saying he's only played 5 decent games in his career?
Jesus you're a whiney cunt.
BANG!
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for me the most frustrating part is that they are only called "excuses" based on the POV people hold. And it is inconsistent. "Show me" is the mantra, but then when a guy like Barkley goes out and has 2,000 yards and 15TD's, some poster will go to great lengths to dissect the numbers to say it really wasn't impressive at all.
And then that same poster will turn around and call those pointing out a shaky OL, a lack of WR separation, no camp last season and a new offense (to go along with a TE who was part of more than half the INT's thrown) excuse makers for Jones. And then say "show me".
Why, so you can shit on him when he does - like the way a poster did to Jones rookie season saying he's only played 5 decent games in his career?
Jesus you're a whiney cunt.
Says the level-headed realist??
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In comment 15320814 ryanmkeane said:
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"accuracy issues" comments. That's one thing that Jones actually doesn't have an issue with. He's been solidly accurate thus far in his career, especially the 20 yards and under. 61.9 and 62.5 years 1 and 2.
His issues are pocket awareness and fumbles.
It comes from not understanding context, either from the beat reports or making judgements based on tweets.
The first few practices were almost exclusively for red zone plays and a heavy focus on corner fades. Those will have a much lower chance to succeed than other routes. Even more so if the defense knows it is coming.
But this time of year, people take any news and reports and run with it.
I find the frustrating part is when a fan introduces a reasonable explanation it gets treated as an excuse.
I think two separate but related ideas have been conflated under the word "excuse"
Now it's often read as "excuses for poor play", but it was originally more "excuses why DJ can't be evaluated"
And one side believed he could be evaluated despite the mitigating circumstances (system, WR, OL, etc) around his poor play, and the other did not.
The Jets had the same issue with Darnold. Could they evaluate him independently of all the negatives about the rest of the team. We got that answer
LiPpy and CiPpy will hurt you.
Just sayin
I only care about the real games.
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In comment 15320818 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15320814 ryanmkeane said:
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"accuracy issues" comments. That's one thing that Jones actually doesn't have an issue with. He's been solidly accurate thus far in his career, especially the 20 yards and under. 61.9 and 62.5 years 1 and 2.
His issues are pocket awareness and fumbles.
It comes from not understanding context, either from the beat reports or making judgements based on tweets.
The first few practices were almost exclusively for red zone plays and a heavy focus on corner fades. Those will have a much lower chance to succeed than other routes. Even more so if the defense knows it is coming.
But this time of year, people take any news and reports and run with it.
I find the frustrating part is when a fan introduces a reasonable explanation it gets treated as an excuse.
I think two separate but related ideas have been conflated under the word "excuse"
Now it's often read as "excuses for poor play", but it was originally more "excuses why DJ can't be evaluated"
And one side believed he could be evaluated despite the mitigating circumstances (system, WR, OL, etc) around his poor play, and the other did not.
The Jets had the same issue with Darnold. Could they evaluate him independently of all the negatives about the rest of the team. We got that answer
I understand your POV. My issue is insistince one way is correct. If a poster states they believe Jones could reasonably be evaluated with the cloud of surrounding circumstances, then fine, I don't see it that way. The problem is when each decides that it is obvious their pov is the only correct one. That attitude is easily spelled out in the way they communicate their pov.
As for Darnold; each situation is different, the answer to one situation is not necessarily the answer to another one.
Let us look at camp practice. The beats use their eyes and report what they see, well what they see is not necessarily what the coaches see. The same can be applied to games. Unfortunately, I think it is rare for a coach to honestly assess their players to the open world so it is difficult to know what they are looking for.
And then that same poster will turn around and call those pointing out a shaky OL, a lack of WR separation, no camp last season and a new offense (to go along with a TE who was part of more than half the INT's thrown) excuse makers for Jones. And then say "show me".
Why, so you can shit on him when he does - like the way a poster did to Jones rookie season saying he's only played 5 decent games in his career?
FMIC, certainly so. I also understand that at times us fans do go out of our way to look for reasons why a player or coach is not experiencing success. A problem as you stated is that reasons are only actual reasons when they fit my argument for a player that I believe in, otherwise for players that I don't believe in, tough luck. Players should be given considerations for circumstances regardless if f I believe in them or not.
By the way - I wonder when positive reports about Jones surface if you'll enlighten the board with the details or will you just talk about those pieces as being fluff or fodder to boost his confidence?
Sure. I can tell you exactly what I will say - 'Good to hear Jones living up to his expectations and doing what the 6th pick in the draft should be doing...'
So that's my issue when we talk about Jones. He's essentially experienced what Wentz did in 2020 but for the first 2 years of his career and he's never experienced a plus unit anywhere on offense except for a handful of games with Barkley on a bad ankle.
I only care about the real games.
It's been a steady diet of reports the last week or so.
I was actually rolling with it until the excuse makers showed last night to list all of the reasons why Jones was struggling.
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By the way - I wonder when positive reports about Jones surface if you'll enlighten the board with the details or will you just talk about those pieces as being fluff or fodder to boost his confidence?
Sure. I can tell you exactly what I will say - 'Good to hear Jones living up to his expectations and doing what the 6th pick in the draft should be doing...'
Well, Jones had a very good day today, so feel free to say it.
As usual he summarizes the entire situation in 4-5 sentences.
So that's my issue when we talk about Jones. He's essentially experienced what Wentz did in 2020 but for the first 2 years of his career and he's never experienced a plus unit anywhere on offense except for a handful of games with Barkley on a bad ankle.
I would say you and I are on the same page, which is not unusual from this side.
Very fair take. And early training camp reports are not getting us any closer to a conclusion on which of those things is most likely to occur.
Having said that, what the f*** else is there to talk about now? Nobody is making conclusions about Jones based on these reports, but why can’t people opine on the little information that is available? If we start reading in the next week that Kadarius Toney is uncoverable and making everyone else look like they are playing in a pool, would excitement about those reports be met with “pfft…means nothing?”
It’s ok to talk about camp reports on a fan message board. Nothing here is being entered into the official record of facts.
- "Stop bringing up 2018. It's over so forget it, especially since we all know there was a mandate with Eli."
- "The rebuilding didn't really start until Jones was inserted as the starting QB during the 2019 season."
- "Nothing related to the roster prior to Joe Judge becoming coach even matters."
Very likely the upcoming fan debate on Daniel Jones' next contract will fall into that same mindset if he has a decent 2021 season. It will be something like "Of course he should be extended, no question. His first two years do no matter...".
Sure. I can tell you exactly what I will say - 'Good to hear Jones living up to his expectations and doing what the 6th pick in the draft should be doing...'
Well, Jones had a very good day today, so feel free to say it.
Good to hear. DJ needs to start stringing these performances together to have positive momentum going into the season.