If you are worried because Jones has not completed a lot of passes in training camp, I would not worry. He has not had problems completing passes in the past.
His problem has been turnovers. Interceptions and fumbles. Hopefully this problem has been addressed by improving his offensive line and by adding some pretty good receivers. If the interceptions and fumbles continue, then it will be time for us to worry.
It's one position, granted it is the most important one, but running a young cost controlled QB out there for one more go isn't a bad plan at all. Teams do it all the time. And most teams don't punt on the young QB after one fucking bad year with a shit load of mitigating factors.
We all want the same thing. I don't think it's weird to feel very optimistic right now. This team is in a nice spot. Young team with staying power. They need to win, but it's a sustainable model. Some of you make it sound so fucking dark. Live a little.
Since we talk about the past all the time, why not mention that the answer would be Dave Brown, 1996. By 97 the Giants had gathered all their intel on Brown and had accepted things. They pretty much gave Brown 3-4 years. Probably 1-2 too many.
Since then, the Giants have been very patient with their QB. Collins in 99-2000 and then Eli. It worked. Now it's time for Jones. No benefit of the doubt I guess? Maybe they really truly believe in this guy? Maybe they are right?
You bring up Kerry Collins, but what choice did the Giants really have at that point. Dave Brown failed. Neither Kent Graham nor Danny Kanell were good. Short of drafting Tom Brady in 2000, they weren't in a position to draft a young QB in '99 or 2000.
And then Collins delivered in his first full season.
Eli Manning's rookie contract was for six years and $54 million. He won the Super Bowl in year 4. Calls to "get rid of him" aside, they were locked in to him contractually in a way that will not be true of Daniel Jones come next May.
I guess it depends on the answer you're looking for, because Davis Webb and Kyle Lauletta are 3/4th round picks aren't even good enough to be backups in the NFL.
2004 was a long, long time ago.
He has had his share of mistakes...maybe a few more than some would like to see, but this kid has showed us all that he has the skills to not just win football games, but to do so in dramatic fashion.
No panic, no worries...just Daniel Jones coming into his own in 2021.
I'm really looking forward to seeing DJ8 get after it in September!
Being a good quarterback in the NFL requires a shitload of innate talent and ability that is already in place before you take all the other factors (coaching, OL, etc.) into account.
Jones lacks talent in a couple critical areas - pocket presence and field vision. That isn't going to just develop at the NFL level - that's like learning to drive in an F1 car. The success of failure of Jones with the Giants is going to depend on the coaches' ability to mitigate his shortcomings through scheme, and I think Garrett's scheme is completely wrong for Jones.
2004 was a long, long time ago.
See here's where we differ -- they were right to draft Jones -- so the last time they were right was the last time they drafted a QB
Haskins was a total disaster -- he had no work ethic, no discipline, and he couldn't lead his team. You can not say that about Jones. He is well respected by his team and this coaching staff. The fact that you know that he was a bad pick is total hooey -- it's your opinion and that's it
It's too soon to pull the rug out -- he has not been anything like Haskins in form or substance -- he's shown flashes of very good and flashes of rookie errors -- it's par for the course for a rookie QB --
Fitz is a journey man QB -- we've had them before -- kinda like hiring Kerry to go lose the Super Bowl -- hiring Fitz to lead your team is a chump move that wreaks of desperation and Washington will not benefit in the long run from it -- keeping Jones on staff and seeing what you have is much smarter from a management perspective and cost wise as well. The team believes in the kid and he's shown mad good team skills and teased at real talent. Makes much more sense to try to develop that talent and see what you got -- despite what you say -- it really is anyone's guess right now. Just because you have conviction does not make you right
Your off with his head evaluation is just way too smug and way too premature -that's why you are Go Panic!
It really is that simple. Doesn't mean you have to agree with it, but it certainly isn't "blind optimism".
Seems like the amount of ink devoted to debating the QB annoys some members. That seems odd, he’s the most important player on the team.
Then there is a litmus test, where positive opinions can be rehashed endlessly and erratically, but negative opinions are spam. You’ve got a poster resorting to putting fans in quotes when referring to posters he doesn’t like.
God bless him and I like him as a poster, but if Go Terps had the posting style of DJM I think some BBIers would explode.
When's the last time someone with an opposing view said "you know, that's a good point" or even "I agree with that part of what you said"? Not often enough. Too many people care about being right and the people that don't care about being right don't post much or don't really pick a side. And that's typically how it goes on Facebook, Instagram, etc on any and every topic.
That's the part that has me on the fence as a Jones doubter going forward. The Giants were a bad roster last year and the OL might have been the weakest position followed by WR so he was undermanned almost, if not every, week but there were several games the Giants had a chance to steal at the end and they didn't win even one of them.
The best game the Giants have played in years vs. Seattle he didn't even play in. That was the most organized and best performing game as an 11 man offense unit all year with a QB who couldn't throw the ball with any velocity and little accuracy.
I watched the interview with Jones after the fight and looks looks bigger/stronger and seemed more relaxed and confident with the media in his face. It would be great if that transferred over to the field.
As if this Vocal Minority single-handedly shuts down all conversation while some less-vocal majority owns the rights to all civil debate? Meanwhile, pile-ons occur every day on threads when someone questions or is critical of anything NY Giant.
And by the way, what is so damn special about being in the majority on an opinionated fanboard of a team that has struggled like hell the past decade...
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When was the last time the Giants were wrong about a young QB within their walls?
I guess it depends on the answer you're looking for, because Davis Webb and Kyle Lauletta are 3/4th round picks aren't even good enough to be backups in the NFL.
Right. And they were cut soon after being drafted.
The Giants haven't held on to a young QB for too long lately. Not that it matters really, but since we love to talk about how bad this team has been since 2013, it seems fair to bring that up.
OK then.
2004 was a long, long time ago.
So was 2012. Yet you conjure that date up all the time.
Keep trying to completely ignore and dispel NFL coaching and what they see in practice.
My point is, the Giants have been pretty quick to cut dead weight here, especially under DG and even Judge. They haven't awarded any scholarships. Players have had to earn their way. Jones was in fact "given" the starting job but in this day and age, where practice time is so precious, you pretty much have to give the young QB the reps or else that guy isn't going to get enough reps.
I don’t know man. For every critical Googs, BW, Terps post, I think there’s a DJM, FMiC, gidiefor post with the equal amount of razzing.
Over the last several years, there’s just been an overwhelming amount of bad outcomes for this team. It’s no wonder the general sentiment is more negative.
But I don’t think the more optimistic fans are any less snarky or more constructive. Take a read through this thread, there are some pretty good examples.
When's the last time someone with an opposing view said "you know, that's a good point" or even "I agree with that part of what you said"? Not often enough. Too many people care about being right and the people that don't care about being right don't post much or don't really pick a side. And that's typically how it goes on Facebook, Instagram, etc on any and every topic.
I barely post on these threads anymore, what's the point? And I'm pretty sure most know where I stand on Jones, it's just been rehashed a billion times. What the hell does the first week of a camp tell you about DJ? On a team with a stacked secondary? With lots of new receiving pieces? Fucking nothing.
I never understand the hype about camp, it's internal competition. It doesn't tell you much about the state of the team vs the rest of the NFL.
My point is, the Giants have been pretty quick to cut dead weight here, especially under DG and even Judge. They haven't awarded any scholarships. Players have had to earn their way. Jones was in fact "given" the starting job but in this day and age, where practice time is so precious, you pretty much have to give the young QB the reps or else that guy isn't going to get enough reps.
Djm, I generally agree with that part of what you said here...
We've seen numerous threads about Barkley's rehab or Jones bringing teammates together that are derailed so that Go Terps can post Jones stats from 2020. It's like any positive news has to be shouted down without there even being a reason to step in and do so.
And again - if people can point to threads started talking about how great things are, by all means, enlighten the board about how shitty the team has been. But when innocuous information about Jones working out with WR's becomes another way to rail on him being picked to be Eli 2.0 and you don't see a problem with that - there's not much to say.
Half of me thinks there's a goal to how many shitty backup QB's Go Terps is going to equate to Daniel Jones that you probably have a drinking game based around it.
We've seen numerous threads about Barkley's rehab or Jones bringing teammates together that are derailed so that Go Terps can post Jones stats from 2020. It's like any positive news has to be shouted down without there even being a reason to step in and do so.
And again - if people can point to threads started talking about how great things are, by all means, enlighten the board about how shitty the team has been. But when innocuous information about Jones working out with WR's becomes another way to rail on him being picked to be Eli 2.0 and you don't see a problem with that - there's not much to say.
Half of me thinks there's a goal to how many shitty backup QB's Go Terps is going to equate to Daniel Jones that you probably have a drinking game based around it.
Very few posters have said DEFINITIVELY, DJ will be fine. What I have said very simply, as many others have said, is that WE BELIEVE DJ will be fine, but that we have no real idea. Just a belief…As opposed to the DEFINITIVE, Jones is garbage and other adjectives, after just 25 games.
But, they hear want they want to hear even though most of us have put DISCLAIMERS out there.
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most positive posts are torn down and really aren't repeated all that much as a result. The dissenting opinions are almost always louder and more repetitive. Very seldom is knowledge being shared, and I'd question it even being a debate. It often turns into a lecture.
When's the last time someone with an opposing view said "you know, that's a good point" or even "I agree with that part of what you said"? Not often enough. Too many people care about being right and the people that don't care about being right don't post much or don't really pick a side. And that's typically how it goes on Facebook, Instagram, etc on any and every topic.
I barely post on these threads anymore, what's the point? And I'm pretty sure most know where I stand on Jones, it's just been rehashed a billion times. What the hell does the first week of a camp tell you about DJ? On a team with a stacked secondary? With lots of new receiving pieces? Fucking nothing.
I never understand the hype about camp, it's internal competition. It doesn't tell you much about the state of the team vs the rest of the NFL.
Same, the redundancy is an absolute bore now.
We've seen numerous threads about Barkley's rehab or Jones bringing teammates together that are derailed so that Go Terps can post Jones stats from 2020. It's like any positive news has to be shouted down without there even being a reason to step in and do so.
And again - if people can point to threads started talking about how great things are, by all means, enlighten the board about how shitty the team has been. But when innocuous information about Jones working out with WR's becomes another way to rail on him being picked to be Eli 2.0 and you don't see a problem with that - there's not much to say.
Half of me thinks there's a goal to how many shitty backup QB's Go Terps is going to equate to Daniel Jones that you probably have a drinking game based around it.
They can't hijack a thread if you don't engage with them. If you honesty believe they're just going around trolling, then it's working because you and others feel compelled to engage and THAT is what derails threads.
But, they hear want they want to hear even though most of us have put DISCLAIMERS out there.
I’ve always assumed it’s a given we’re all just exchanging beliefs, and from topic-to-topic the strength of each of our feelings runs on a spectrum from strong to not.
I’ve vehemently disagreed with Terps over the years on a number of topics, but have always respected his civility and effort to back his opinion with something more than insults.
I barely post on these threads anymore, what's the point? And I'm pretty sure most know where I stand on Jones, it's just been rehashed a billion times. What the hell does the first week of a camp tell you about DJ? On a team with a stacked secondary? With lots of new receiving pieces? Fucking nothing.
I really find this odd. But to each their own.
We are essentially a month out from the start of the season. And in this critical third year, sources were saying Jones was off to a rocky start. So why wouldn't that be interesting news to some?
I can manage around it, but there is this arrogant, sanctimonious tone from quite a few who want the conversations to only be a certain cadence. And if if that conversation goes against that grain, they swoop in and tell everyone why BBI is "boring", "redundant", "lacking balance", etc.
If you don't like the content, avoid it. I do. But I don't go around preaching to other what is good content and what is boring, redundant, lacking balance, etc content.
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I barely post on these threads anymore, what's the point? And I'm pretty sure most know where I stand on Jones, it's just been rehashed a billion times. What the hell does the first week of a camp tell you about DJ? On a team with a stacked secondary? With lots of new receiving pieces? Fucking nothing.
I really find this odd. But to each their own.
We are essentially a month out from the start of the season. And in this critical third year, sources were saying Jones was off to a rocky start. So why wouldn't that be interesting news to some?
I can manage around it, but there is this arrogant, sanctimonious tone from quite a few who want the conversations to only be a certain cadence. And if if that conversation goes against that grain, they swoop in and tell everyone why BBI is "boring", "redundant", "lacking balance", etc.
If you don't like the content, avoid it. I do. But I don't go around preaching to other what is good content and what is boring, redundant, lacking balance, etc content.
What in the name of sanity and logic could anyone deduce from no pads practices that DJ is off to a rocky start? That’s nuts. It’s just as nuts if they had said DJ rocked it under the same practice circumstances..
Did I think it was a sign of things to come and it was time to "Break Glass in Case of Emergency"? No.
It really wasn't that big of a deal until the Excuse Makers swooped in and did their thing...
Did I think it was a sign of things to come and it was time to "Break Glass in Case of Emergency"? No.
It really wasn't that big of a deal until the Excuse Makers swooped in and did their thing...
Can you explain why it was so “interesting”?
Did I think it was a sign of things to come and it was time to "Break Glass in Case of Emergency"? No.
It really wasn't that big of a deal until the Excuse Makers swooped in and did their thing...
The ONLY excuse, pro or con, is that it’s practice. Otherwise, what else could be offered?
Good one. 👍🏿👍
If this thesis is true, I’d imagine doing well in those missing milestones would be the goal?
If Jones was doing really well, that’s a good sign, no?
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found it interesting that so many sources we reporting Jones's rough outings in practice. It wasn't one source, it was multiple sources for 3-5 days.
Did I think it was a sign of things to come and it was time to "Break Glass in Case of Emergency"? No.
It really wasn't that big of a deal until the Excuse Makers swooped in and did their thing...
Can you explain why it was so “interesting”?
Yes, because the reporting seemed so unanimous.
If this thesis is true, I’d imagine doing well in those missing milestones would be the goal?
If Jones was doing really well, that’s a good sign, no?
I think the issue lies in who the evaluators of the practice are, and if they know how to judge who is doing well and who is not.
If this thesis is true, I’d imagine doing well in those missing milestones would be the goal?
If Jones was doing really well, that’s a good sign, no?
Practice helps, but many of us were pointing to the actual preseason games under the new regime. At least I was. I wanted to see whatever progress might have been made under a new OC/system in actual combat with being in shells..
A couple of you above have said these very comments. So what is it?
I don't take him seriously. I don't even waste my time reading his posts anymore and wouldn't have noticed that comment if you hadn't quoted it (I do value the opinions of Jay on the Island).
I don't need extra reasons for hoping DJ succeeds beyond the obvious (Giants success), but it will be a nice big fat fucking cherry on top to make the miserable master haters shut TF up and stop vomiting their negativity over every thread about Jones.
I completely agree my man.
The only person in the room with the Giants right now that has much experience with QBs is Jason Garrett. Shurmur helped draft Jones and got the most we've seen out of him so far. "When have the Giants got it wrong with a QB?" Isn't really the question to be asking.
What have we seen from Jones so far to suggest he should have better odds of succeeding? Additionally, what's success for Jones? Is it top five? Top ten? Or just average QB play?
I think the bar has been lowered for Jones by his biggest fans. (I hate this phrasing of Jones fans - I'm rooting for Jones of course)
I'd add, I think there's a weird dance where people say we can't analyze Jones due to the OL but we can analyze Jones THIS year although the OL got worse on paper.
Lastly, I admire GT/djm for at least sticking their necks out even if it's on opposite sides. I'm not going to think either is a moron for being wrong. I'm a little unclear on where some people who yell at GT actually stand.
I think the bar has been lowered for Jones by his biggest fans. (I hate this phrasing of Jones fans - I'm rooting for Jones of course)
This is something I harp on. I was not a fan of Jones, especially as the 6th pick. I viewed him, at best, as a second rounder.
But I'm not an expert evaluator and decided to defer to the experts. If they thought enough of Jones to make him the 6th pick then Jones should be expected - by all of us - to be a player who has that force multiplier impact. That he can elevate the play of others and make chicken salad. Otherwise, why take him that high...right?
While I admit Jones hasn't been provided with the best talent in the league, he hasn't shown enough - to me - that he's capable of making chicken salad. And Jones is likely going to be a player who always needs training wheels succeed. That means having to spend more on other players to be those training wheels...
Is it the final verdict? Of course not. But it’s troubling.
You know why camp performance always comes with an asterisk? Because it is much easier than regular season games. For years we have seen fringe players tear it up in camp only to get cut a few weeks later. And now we have our starting QB coming into the most important season of his life and he looks… meh.
Just awesome.
If this thesis is true, I’d imagine doing well in those missing milestones would be the goal?
If Jones was doing really well, that’s a good sign, no?
A week into camp? Before even shells were on? Come on, Christian.. You’re better than this.
Is it the final verdict? Of course not. But it’s troubling.
You know why camp performance always comes with an asterisk? Because it is much easier than regular season games. For years we have seen fringe players tear it up in camp only to get cut a few weeks later. And now we have our starting QB coming into the most important season of his life and he looks… meh.
Just awesome.
Holy shit. Lol. Giants fans fucking suck. This post has to be sarcasm, right? Right? Please tell me it is?
Criticizing the team is generally a lose-lose situation. Either you wait for the bad stuff to literally bludgeon everyone in the face and get told things like "well you are only saying that with hindsight" where were you before??
Or you criticize before something goes wrong and you are "miserable" or a "bad fan" or my personal favorite "not rooting for the Giants or Daniel Jones" which is just honestly complete insanity for anyone to suggest.
People were too silent for too long and that gave the team too much leeway to fall more and more behind the competition. When I spoke up about their lack of modernization until the day DG pretty much admitted they failed to modernize effectively people were still talking to me like I was way off base and couldn't possible have my facts straight. Then right away it was shouts of "you got what you wanted, shut up." As a best case scenario vs. gaslighting or personal insults.
Nobody wanted to be sitting here watching this mess, certainly not me. But if any of you think we are going to sit here and watch DJ underperform again this year and let the team and many of you act like he was the right pick because DG liked the cut of his jib and fell in love, you all clearly don't know what you are up against either.
Many of you clearly don't mind that they suck and because Mara is such a "good guy" he should get the benefits of the benefits of the doubt. But you are crazy if you think many of us here are just going to let the crap get shoveled down our throats by some of you and this team.
I hope upon hope that Jones is a fantastic QB this year and/or the team wins. But if he doesn't and the team is bad again, and we get some more DG or Kevin Abrams BS I hope upon hope that this is a miserable place for anyone trying to give this team coverage in not taking their responsibility to fans more seriously year after year. John Mara is starting to resemble the south Park BP parody video I'm linking below.
And to be perfectly clear the latter is the last thing I want but the idea that this team should get any little bit of credit in acting like Jones has shown more than he has, which is little to nothing of value anywhere resembling the decision process to draft him is offensive. Let them have all the mountains of credit they want when they turn this around, but that day is not today no matter how strongly some of you want to act like it is.
The yearly Mara apology - ( New Window )