If you are worried because Jones has not completed a lot of passes in training camp, I would not worry. He has not had problems completing passes in the past.
His problem has been turnovers. Interceptions and fumbles. Hopefully this problem has been addressed by improving his offensive line and by adding some pretty good receivers. If the interceptions and fumbles continue, then it will be time for us to worry.
I know I'm not alone in thinking we probably have our coach and our strongest top to bottom roster in a decade. It's really how good the top pieces turn out to be and there is certainly reason to be hopeful there.
And I don't mind much, it's you who are the Giants "prideful" bunch, despite the complete lack of tangible success to be prideful about, on you go.
It's really the same attitude that has largely sunk the Giants over the past decade but yes, carry on, validate that kind of attitude while falling over yourselves to compliment a 6-10 season.
I'm good either way, if they are good I take no pride in insisting there is some other reality like the ones team polyanna insist exists year after year when they suck and want to rave about how they won 2 of their last 4 in a 4-12 season.
On the flip side, I have no doubt your floor routines will be ready to tell us why we should be excited if we happen to have another losing season.
I'm glad most of you amuse yourselves, again, much like the team, just love to pat yourselves on the back for little to no reason. I care much less about any of this than I used to, it's really the faux caring about the fan base that many of you indulge and even help validate this false narrative. Caring involves a lot more effort to change when you suck than they have displayed.
Many here see the writing on the wall, that Jones perhaps doesn't have the goods but even if he continues to show that he will get way too long of a leash to sink the team. I'd love to be wrong about this. I just hope to be spared from hearing about what good people Jones and Mara and the whole crony gang are if it plays out like that. I just prefer when someone is putting themselves and who they want to hang out with before the people that give them money to produce a good product, I don't have to hear about what good people they are. Just a personal preference, probably "ponderous" to the polyanna gang
I just don't have the acumen to grasp it. I feel like I'm sitting across from Rip Torn eating a pile of shit in "Defending Your Life" and enjoying the taste of it while my feeble mind would think it was horrific to the tastebuds.
Maybe I need a plan. Or maybe some special goggles? I'm thinking the goggles might be easier for me.
Again, funny coming from one of DGs largest supporters. The man that overseen the worst team in the NFL in his tenure somehow wants to parade around here like he is smart and he knows so much.
Vs. the guy who was skeptical from day 1 and turned out to be right on the money, you like to twist as if I'm the stupid one.
Ok, cool. Bye
This really isn't that complicated. Anyone can be aggressively critical, and I used to be a long time ago on this board, but I choose not to anymore because it got to be pretty miserable. It ruins sports for me so I don't do it anymore. I follow some really good and really bad teams, and I approach each the same. If you can't understand that then you are being purposely dense and combative just for the sake of it.
In reality i've recognized many things that need improvement, i just don't harp on it. I've been critical of our GM, our QB, our shitty defense up until last year, and plenty of other things. But you probably missed it because I didn't make sure to post it on ever single thread that's started.
This really isn't that complicated. Anyone can be aggressively critical, and I used to be a long time ago on this board, but I choose not to anymore because it got to be pretty miserable. It ruins sports for me so I don't do it anymore. I follow some really good and really bad teams, and I approach each the same. If you can't understand that then you are being purposely dense and combative just for the sake of it.
In reality i've recognized many things that need improvement, i just don't harp on it. I've been critical of our GM, our QB, our shitty defense up until last year, and plenty of other things. But you probably missed it because I didn't make sure to post it on ever single thread that's started.
They know. We don’t. They’re objective. We drink the Kool-Aid. See how simple it is, broken down?
You do realize there is a wealth of NFL history here, not some blip or dry stretch that fully defines an organization, right? If I go back to Ancient times, I'd get the impression Greece was the leader of all mankind.
The Giants are one of the most successful teams in the NFL. Combined titles and Super Bowls put's them in the Top 5 of all teams. A Super Bowl win in every decade from the 80's on. The team is dripping with tangible success. I'd suggest trapping you in a trophy case wedged behind 4 Lombardi's might give some perspective on that.
The rambling commentary and brash proclamations of having a plan mean exactly what in a historical perspective? I've seen 4 Super Bowl wins in my lifetime by this franchise. What exactly am I supposed to be ashamed of? What bitching and protesting am I supposed to do to scream "I AM NOT ENTERTAINED!!" like a Roman Gladiator (Another pinnacle of society in the early days)
That's what I don't get about people who proclaim themselves "realists". They snub their nose at history and the expectation is they will follow a perfect organization. One that makes the right moves and is a perennial winner. And there's still not a team that does that. And before I hear a peep about New England, ask their fans how they felt from 1964 to 1975 where they had two winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Or even from 1987 to 1993.
Calling people polyannas who hope the team does well is a farce when the realistic view is the expectation the team will be run flawlessly and win consistently - something that isn't done. The Carolina Panthers, who have been in existence since 1994 have never had back to back winning seasons. Never. What is their recourse? The Cowboys haven't won anything of note since 1995 so should they have stormed AT&T and ripped Skeletor out by his clavicle?
I'm also quite concerned about the way Mara recently talked about DG, seems like he might stay employed even if there is another disappointing season. And I'd like to avoid the overall idea that he's done everything right and him and Judge are this fantastic team and should stay if the results aren't there.
I'm more optimistic about this season than I've been in a while, I just am really hoping if Jones drags the team down it's the end of the DG era. And not the beginning of the Abrams or other crony hire era.
My biggest concern is the victory laps being taken by the pro-DG crowd before this team has accomplished anything. I won't have any problems enjoying this season if they aren't garbage
Whoops...you went too far there Zeke.
The conceptual phrase of posters saying "the arrow is pointing up" has been going on for quite a number of years here. And it certainly wasn't some very small minority.
Hope is a good thing too (per my friend Andy), but that's all it really turned out to be...
I'm even warming up to DG...partly because he's made what appears to be multiple positive moves in the past 2 offseasons. He is also working well with JJ.
I will admit, I'm also beginning to like him because it tweeks the miserable lot that can't go a week without denigrating him.
This has been a great offseason for the Giants. You stated that the Giants need to win the Super Bowl in order to not be the laughing stock of the league...
...I don't know how you manage to fit that much hyperbole in the room but as I have said...
You be you.
I'm also quite concerned about the way Mara recently talked about DG, seems like he might stay employed even if there is another disappointing season. And I'd like to avoid the overall idea that he's done everything right and him and Judge are this fantastic team and should stay if the results aren't there.
I'm more optimistic about this season than I've been in a while, I just am really hoping if Jones drags the team down it's the end of the DG era. And not the beginning of the Abrams or other crony hire era.
My biggest concern is the victory laps being taken by the pro-DG crowd before this team has accomplished anything. I won't have any problems enjoying this season if they aren't garbage
NGD - you are kind of all over the board on this now.
After going thru a few soliloquies earlier and concerning yourself about Browns fans ridiculing your team, you are now stating you are as optimistic as ever. If its truly the latter then good...you're all set to watch the season.
And coming from the biggest DG critic on this board, I seldom see anyone seriously taking victory laps. They would be doing it to goad a reaction if so and only wind up looking foolish. Plenty of DG defenders mind you, but very few brave enough to take laps. Most have converted to Judge advocates anyway because confidence in that GM, by himself, smartly fell out of favor.
And am not feeling great about Jones or what a commitment to Jones could do for the overall success of the team.
As for Brown Hornet and DG, they've been the worst team in the league since he's been hired. The Giants have had a total of 37 wins in 8 seasons since the Super Bowl victory or about 4.6 a year. You aren't witnessing any discomfort with DG it's his performance that makes many squirm.
I was skeptical from the start yes, but would have loved for him to do well and prove me wrong. I would have come to enjoy his terrible media presence even if he was any good at his job.
You do realize there is a wealth of NFL history here, not some blip or dry stretch that fully defines an organization, right? If I go back to Ancient times, I'd get the impression Greece was the leader of all mankind.
The Giants are one of the most successful teams in the NFL. Combined titles and Super Bowls put's them in the Top 5 of all teams. A Super Bowl win in every decade from the 80's on. The team is dripping with tangible success. I'd suggest trapping you in a trophy case wedged behind 4 Lombardi's might give some perspective on that.
The rambling commentary and brash proclamations of having a plan mean exactly what in a historical perspective? I've seen 4 Super Bowl wins in my lifetime by this franchise. What exactly am I supposed to be ashamed of? What bitching and protesting am I supposed to do to scream "I AM NOT ENTERTAINED!!" like a Roman Gladiator (Another pinnacle of society in the early days)
That's what I don't get about people who proclaim themselves "realists". They snub their nose at history and the expectation is they will follow a perfect organization. One that makes the right moves and is a perennial winner. And there's still not a team that does that. And before I hear a peep about New England, ask their fans how they felt from 1964 to 1975 where they had two winning seasons and no playoff appearances. Or even from 1987 to 1993.
Calling people polyannas who hope the team does well is a farce when the realistic view is the expectation the team will be run flawlessly and win consistently - something that isn't done. The Carolina Panthers, who have been in existence since 1994 have never had back to back winning seasons. Never. What is their recourse? The Cowboys haven't won anything of note since 1995 so should they have stormed AT&T and ripped Skeletor out by his clavicle?
Wait so does that mean Yankees fans can't be critical of the team ever because they've won 27 championships?
Past success doesn't excuse current failure
And if Jones becomes the guy, then they can extend him and DG may just very well go off into the sunset and hang out with his buddy Kelvin Benjamin on a beach somewhere...
Lol well I don't often participate in the Yankees threads here, yeah I've seen that before. The first half of the year the criticism has certainly been warranted though.
And if Jones becomes the guy, then they can extend him and DG may just very well go off into the sunset and hang out with his buddy Kelvin Benjamin on a beach somewhere...
I have serious doubts about Jones having a mediocre to bad season and both him and DG hanging around but I'd LOVE to be wrong about that
Past success doesn't excuse current failure
It isn't about being critical. It is the act that the team is an abject failure and that there's been no tangible record of success. If somebody says the Yankees are the worst franchise in the MLB and are getting laughed at by Pirate fans and acts like the team is dogshit year in and out, they should get ridiculed, especially if their tone is that the team will never get better with the people in charge.
Again - taking a snapshot of any franchise in any sport at their lowest point or during a dry stretch is going to look really bad., yet people still remain fans.
The folly is thinking that if the Yankees do poorly that I can post on a message board ripping Cashman and ownership and thinking they have a mandate to act upon my bitching. That if there is positive comments about a young pitcher, that they are being said just to protect a fragile psyche. That, as a fan, I need a plan.
I watch the games. I follow the team. How that translates to success or failure or better yet, thinking that it translates to having an impact is simply delusional.
Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.
I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).
I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
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This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.
Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.
Two of the starters are not the same, so this calculus is a little more complicated than this, no?
All fine and good. But if it's Abrams next that would signal that it's going to be more similar to DG than not IMO.
I'd have no issue with O'Brien taking over
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Wait so does that mean Yankees fans can't be critical of the team ever because they've won 27 championships?
Past success doesn't excuse current failure
It isn't about being critical. It is the act that the team is an abject failure and that there's been no tangible record of success. If somebody says the Yankees are the worst franchise in the MLB and are getting laughed at by Pirate fans and acts like the team is dogshit year in and out, they should get ridiculed, especially if their tone is that the team will never get better with the people in charge.
Again - taking a snapshot of any franchise in any sport at their lowest point or during a dry stretch is going to look really bad., yet people still remain fans.
The folly is thinking that if the Yankees do poorly that I can post on a message board ripping Cashman and ownership and thinking they have a mandate to act upon my bitching. That if there is positive comments about a young pitcher, that they are being said just to protect a fragile psyche. That, as a fan, I need a plan.
I watch the games. I follow the team. How that translates to success or failure or better yet, thinking that it translates to having an impact is simply delusional.
Imagine the Yankees of the late 80s and early 90s, especially after a Mets title, with social media.
I understand that what's posted here, on Twitter, etc means nothing at the end of the day. Doesn't mean I can't be upset with how the team has played, been constructed, and run even though I've seen more titles than some teams combined
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He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
All fine and good. But if it's Abrams next that would signal that it's going to be more similar to DG than not IMO.
I'd have no issue with O'Brien taking over
This is such BS. You don’t know the first thing about how Abrams would conduct business. Abrams and DG have nothing in common other than they are in the organization. Which I realize is your hang up. If he’s part of this organization in any capacity he’s part of the problem. Got it.
Abrams is a cap guy. It doesn’t take a super genius to figure out that if he were to take over, it’s with the idea the coaching staff would have a ton of input into roster construction. Well, they already do, but that would go against your narrative that DG is the devil. I’m not a fan of Gettleman. Would prefer someone else. But that dude never stood a chance here from the time he was hired because he’s not a computer geek. Let’s not act like you want him fired because of the performance. You wanted him fired the second he walked through the door. Because he doesn’t look and sound like you. That is a fact.
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He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).
I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?
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In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).
I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?
Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.
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In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).
I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?
Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.
OH dear -- Lol -- Go Panic dude!
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In comment 15323868 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15323857 cosmicj said:
Quote:
He is losing power and will ease into retirement. That O’Brien hire and the free agency signings that followed (several Lions and a TE from one of their division rivals) shows who has the influence.
I hope you're right. Even so, the team is still constructed around Jones and Barkley, both of whom were drafted under the Gettleman methodology (whatever that is).
I want Judge and his people to bring in a quarterback using their scouting and evaluation methodologies, which I would trust a great deal more than Gettleman's.
What if Jones is who Judge and his people want at QB?
Then my confidence in Judge would lower significantly, and my optimism for 2022 and beyond would wane.
Haha. This is great. You simply cannot make this shit up.
As for this gem of a quote
Couldn't miss me by more. I actually value leadership above all else. Good leaders are accountable, they are open minded, they want to soak in new ideas and never miss any potential edge.
DG graded quite poorly in my book because of the way he discussed ideas and the structure of the organization around and below him. Yes, the way he acted and spoke, I rated it highly likely that the Giants would continue to lag behind on innovation, I spoke out about that and it wasn't the hardest prediction to make. It's good to understand all the potential innovations, explore them, hire the right team to put you in a place where you can get ahead. I don't want a "geek" I want someone who unlike DG has a curiosity for what he doesn't know, instead of acting like he has all the answers. That pompous fake keyboarding was everything that is wrong with him.
If I was going to ding Judge for keeping Jones past this year (without even knowing how the fuck Jones does this year), I'd absolutely rip Judge for going into a year on a QB he doesn't believe in.
Luckily my mind doesn't fuck with me like that...
Why do I picture this guy? Just a fucking joke at this point. A meme
Well, that’s that! Google search “stats” has spoken! Evaluation complete. No need to see any more! Judge is an idiot. Its obvious to any nerd that’s gone to Pro Football Reference to evaluate players. I’ve lost confidence in Judge. Because posters that have probably never even put their hand on a football, let alone play the game at any level, make evaluations on Google.
Fire everyone!!!
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In comment 15323845 Carl in CT said:
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This team is in trouble. Blame DG. Most important thing to have and we don’t.
Well, that remains to be seen, right? We have the same players, but they may not perform the same as last year, for better or for worse.
Two of the starters are not the same, so this calculus is a little more complicated than this, no?
I am on the fence about that one. . .
Past success doesn't excuse current failure
I completely agree...
... And past failure doesn't define future success.
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Past success doesn't excuse current failure
I completely agree...
... And past failure doesn't define future success.
No it does not, but usually there's usually a noticable inflection point for when the turn from bad to good happens. Is there JJ hire that inflection point? Personally I think more changes are needed
Of course Scooter is right.
But I meant further up with the nice pic and comment. Here’s your chance...
BBI's version of Pat Leonard - Jimmy Clownshoes
Discourse...