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Raanan/Rosenblatt: Engram stood out in blocking drills

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/3/2021 3:18 pm
Raanan: "Engram pancaked some guys in blocking drills."

Rosenblatt: "Tight end Evan Engram has had a nice camp, without any drops, and even looked impressive during blocking drills on Tuesday."
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There is no doubt that  
section125 : 8/4/2021 7:03 am : link
we are all disappointed in Engram's play. But that Joe Judge wants him to stay for at least another year should tell everyone that he sees something he likes. If it does not pan out, he will be let go for FA.
They have Rudolph and other options.
......  
Route 9 : 8/4/2021 7:29 am : link
Uconn, not really sure where you're going with this (as usual) it isn't "hard" saying he sucks because he does suck, unless you're being a sexual weirdo? Ha. I joke, pal.

Sorry I have to be the correctional officer around here and lay down the law. Truth stings sometimes. I guess you guys are cupcake soft in this prison.

All kidding around aisde, he did pluck Tiki and Amani's first few years out of the sky. I mean fine, but two completely different positions and two different situations.

Tiki was a ... third down back fair to say? Amani was a punt returner and not a #1 wide receiver. Tiki returned punts, too. So they were special teams players at first trying to claw their way on the field. No problem with that.

Evan Engram was kind of different because he was given the responsibility as the number one tight end on the Giants depth chart.... from day one. Basically agreeing with the above mentioned comments about Engram and we've kind of seen what he could do.

Did Tiki play better because of offensive line improvement? I don't know, but Engram just flat out drops passes. That is his job ... to catch the ball.
you don't know where I'm going with it  
UConn4523 : 8/4/2021 7:56 am : link
because you want to make everything into a bigger issue than it is and have an argument. Have you ever tried speaking to someone cordially on this site? Let me guess, that would be soft?

I don't know who you were originally responding to but that doesn't even matter. The point is that Engram wouldn't be the first guy to find himself later in his career and he also wouldn't be the first to never find it (a very real possibility and one i'm not refuting). But there's a reason he's still here and I don't think its because the Giants are soft, that's a pure reach on your part. Gettelman has turned over half the roster the past couple of years so he's not afraid to cut bait and it completely debunks that theory.
And just curious  
UConn4523 : 8/4/2021 8:00 am : link
do you want him to be good? Seems like a ridiculous question to ask but asking anyway.
I would have been delighted to see JJ part ways with him.  
Big Blue '56 : 8/4/2021 8:02 am : link
I will be delighted if JJ’s faith in his talent pays off. I’m a Giants fan. They’re “family.”
RE: I would have been delighted to see JJ part ways with him.  
UConn4523 : 8/4/2021 8:07 am : link
In comment 15321879 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I will be delighted if JJ’s faith in his talent pays off. I’m a Giants fan. They’re “family.”


Same. Depending on the trade offers i would have dealt him too but I understand why keeping him could be an attractive option. Its been a long time since Engram wasn't the #1 on offense - with all the additions + Barkley coming back he's basically the #4 now and presumably a big mismatch for whoever has to handle him. There will be less pressure on him as well.
Way too many negative plays with Engram.  
NYGgolfer : 8/4/2021 8:22 am : link
Found it somewhat surprising he wasn't moved/released this past offseason. But maybe there were no interested parties for reasonable value, or Front Office didn't look at his salary as problematic.

Giants were in the mix on Hunter Henry early in free agency. So possible when that didn't happen and then after Rudolph's foot injury was discovered that Engram's $6M price tag became easier to swallow.

Judge supports him though, and does so publicly and often. Of course he wants the negative plays to decline, and if they do then Engram is at least worth it 2021. And if he picks up his game and shows more impact plays then maybe he is in the mix for more years with the team.
RE: I would have been delighted to see JJ part ways with him.  
Brown_Hornet : 8/4/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15321879 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
I will be delighted if JJ’s faith in his talent pays off. I’m a Giants fan. They’re “family.”
This.
Also...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/4/2021 8:36 am : link
...Id put the odds that both 8/88 are Giants in 2022 at >50%
Hope it's true.  
mittenedman : 8/4/2021 8:50 am : link
The Giants seem to be getting excellent position coaching vs. what they've been accustomed to under McAdoo & Shurmur (who had some of the worst overall staffs you'll ever see).

That's probably the biggest reason for the team's overall improvement. Maybe Engram's benefitting from better coaching. He seems to like grinding and the coach's seem to be impressed. What do they look for? Guys who improve.
I know..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/4/2021 9:02 am : link
Engram is a polarizing guy, but if you step back and look at his path to TE, it isn't too difficult to see how development could take some time.

He's a guy who wasn't used in the traditional TE role until he reached the NFL. He was moved outside and matched up against DB's frequently. He wasn't called on to block often. He was utilized more like a hybrid WR.

I think the staffs here have tried to work in that versatility, but maybe it has come at the expense of development - but we really don't know. What we do know is that Judge sees potential. And while he's been frustratingly inconsistent, he has produced some in the past. He has the record for most TD's by a rookie TE for the Giants and he did score in 4 consecutive games as a rookie.

It isn't too big a stretch to think that with consistent coaching, he can improve - he has the physical skills.

But here's what I don't understand - he's the TE here this year. That's not likely to change. Why wouldn't we want to see him do well. If he does well, there's a good chance the team will do well.
I'd love to see him do well  
Bill in UT : 8/4/2021 9:13 am : link
but I don't know if we can afford to give him a big contract next year.
RE: I'd love to see him do well  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/4/2021 9:18 am : link
In comment 15321926 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
but I don't know if we can afford to give him a big contract next year.


But in my opinion, having that be a tough decision is only a good thing. It means that Engram did well. And if he does well, we have options. We can trade him or resign him.

If it is an easy decision to let him go, then he won't have done very well this year.
I was watching Jones highlights  
dabru : 8/4/2021 10:31 am : link
and Engram was involved in a pretty significant amount of those plays.

The guy is a weapon who has come up short at some really bad moments. Some players just shrug that stuff off like it's no big deal but it seems Engram takes those moments as incentive to to improve, to work harder. I also think he feels the same about blocking and that he is working hard to improve. He isn't very tall, 6'3" I think, and that may help him with leverage even though he is light.

Who knows what the final story on Engram will be, but the guy seems very dedicated to both the team and improving himself. He is easy for me to root for.
RE: ......  
PwndPapi : 8/4/2021 11:22 am : link
In comment 15321863 Route 9 said:
Quote:
Uconn, not really sure where you're going with this (as usual) it isn't "hard" saying he sucks because he does suck, unless you're being a sexual weirdo? Ha. I joke, pal.

Sorry I have to be the correctional officer around here and lay down the law. Truth stings sometimes. I guess you guys are cupcake soft in this prison.

All kidding around aisde, he did pluck Tiki and Amani's first few years out of the sky. I mean fine, but two completely different positions and two different situations.

Tiki was a ... third down back fair to say? Amani was a punt returner and not a #1 wide receiver. Tiki returned punts, too. So they were special teams players at first trying to claw their way on the field. No problem with that.

Evan Engram was kind of different because he was given the responsibility as the number one tight end on the Giants depth chart.... from day one. Basically agreeing with the above mentioned comments about Engram and we've kind of seen what he could do.

Did Tiki play better because of offensive line improvement? I don't know, but Engram just flat out drops passes. That is his job ... to catch the ball.


If there were any inkling that you understood what you were watching, that's now evaporated.

Toomer was drafted to be a punt returner? Tiki was drafted to be a 3rd round back? Do you really believe professional football teams utilize premium draft selections (2nd round picks) on punt returners and 3rd down backs? They were each selected as WR and RB projects who contributed in other phases of the game. That's what projects need to do to keep their place on the team while they grow and develop.

Engram was drafted as a move-TE who never played in-line. TE is among the more difficult positons to learn as you not only need to refine route running, but you also need to learn blocking assignments. Engram went through 3 regimes and missed a season in between.

Yeah. He's made mistakes. More than a few. Young players make mistakes. You haven't scooped anything and you're not half as clever as you think you are.
Im expecting a big year for EE  
UberAlias : 8/4/2021 11:26 am : link
He has his flaws for sure, not saying he’s going to be perfectly clean, but if this offense picks up I expect him to be a big part of it.
......  
Route 9 : 8/4/2021 11:29 am : link
Didn't say that they were drafted for those reasons. Again - those were the roles they had early on.
And if you hate Engram's drops  
PwndPapi : 8/4/2021 11:57 am : link
You'd really have hated Jeremy Shockey, Kevin Boss et al.
Member this? - ( New Window )
This staff  
djm : 8/4/2021 3:29 pm : link
hasn't cut too many guys too soon or too late. Just saying.
RE: And if you hate Engram's drops  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/4/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15322209 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
You'd really have hated Jeremy Shockey, Kevin Boss et al. Member this? - ( New Window )


Shockey could block and was an animal after the catch when he was here. Boss was a good blocker and consistent route runner, so at least he could get open.

Engram is a nice X factor piece when you have some talent on offense. Fortunately, we have that again.
RE: This staff  
UConn4523 : 8/4/2021 3:37 pm : link
In comment 15322468 djm said:
Quote:
hasn't cut too many guys too soon or too late. Just saying.


There's really no incentive to cutting him right now. If we were going to move him it was pre-draft and we didn't. That tells me the offers were thin and/or they think he can make a difference this season. Also, if Rudolph goes down, then what?
RE: And if you hate Engram's drops  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/4/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15322209 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
You'd really have hated Jeremy Shockey, Kevin Boss et al. Member this? - ( New Window )


Engram is way worse. And I don't remember either of those guys tipping passes into defenders' hands anywhere near as much as Engram did last season alone. We won't even get into blocking.
I’m rooting hard for Engram this year.  
GiantGolfer : 8/4/2021 3:59 pm : link
He’s had his fair share of struggles and has had to take a lot of crap from all of us (deservedly) but he’s a really nice kid, the locker room loves him and the coaches rave about him. It appears to to be a mental thing with him. I hope he gets it worked out this year.
RE: RE: And if you hate Engram's drops  
PwndPapi : 8/4/2021 7:27 pm : link
In comment 15322477 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15322209 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


You'd really have hated Jeremy Shockey, Kevin Boss et al. Member this? - ( New Window )



Shockey could block and was an animal after the catch when he was here. Boss was a good blocker and consistent route runner, so at least he could get open.

Engram is a nice X factor piece when you have some talent on offense. Fortunately, we have that again.


In Kevin Boss's best season as a pass-catcher, he was targeted 69 times for 42 receptions and 567 yards. That's not bad for a 5th rounder, but he had the likes of Bradshaw and Jacobs out of the backfield and Nicks, Manningham and Smith on the outside. We couldn't get anyone open last season if they ran routes all day.

The two players are on different planets. One team was primed to make a title run, the other was in year ___ of a rebuild.
RE: This staff  
Jimmy Googs : 8/4/2021 11:34 pm : link
In comment 15322468 djm said:
Quote:
hasn't cut too many guys too soon or too late. Just saying.


Odds are increasing Engram could just retire...
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 12:16 am : link
Your smoking gun is ... Jeremy Shockey ... and Kevin Boss now? I wasn't in love with Shockey, no, but I did not hate him. He was solid. Shockey was a superior player in comparison to Engram, though. Better YAC, better hands, better blocker. I liked his passion.

Boss had the Super Bowl catch that got the offense going in the beginning of the fourth quarter, so I'm going to hold him in much higher regard over anything Engram has done here. Again, Boss was a nice story. A more level headed 5th round pick who literally replaced the former. A bit different than a frustrating 1st rounder who didn't live up to my expectations.

Ya, I guess the language was a bit rough on this thread but this team has been pissing me off in the last 9 years. I get what you're saying that you could bring up any player that has put on a Giant jersey and their flaws could fill up a book but I agree with everyone else on here when they say ... we've seen what Engram could do.

Funny thing here? I want you to be right.
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 12:17 am : link
Oh, yeah. Shockey's week 17, 2002 jumpball vs Dawkins is one of my favorite Giants moments.
For Engram its a contract year  
SGMen : 8/5/2021 4:25 am : link
Personally, I'm rooting for the guy to come up big for us. He just has to be used correctly and of course stop dropping the damn ball or batting it to defenders and such.

If he has improved his blocking, well, that is a bonus but I don't expect him to be a stud in that area.

Hey, if he went 70-850-7 we'd all be ecstatic.
I'm fairly certain  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 2:36 pm : link
the term "smoking gun" doesn't mean what you think it means. All I've suggested is that not all athletes develop at the same pace and for various reasons. Also, it's absurd for a grown-ass individual to pound away on an athlete they've never met, who by all accounts is a good team guy and hard worker on virtually a daily basis.

If Evan Engram was a dog or a bad guy off the field, then by all means, have at him. You're actively cheering for the guy to fail and have made him the scapegoat for the Giants futility. Grow up.
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 3:15 pm : link
Read above about the langauge. I apologize from the depths of my soul and recognize my humble willingness to admit I was out of order. I must consider Engrams natural talents. He WILL be good.
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 3:18 pm : link
"Grown-ass man" and then talks about growing up lol
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 3:25 pm : link
Individual. Sorry.

And whatever oh, it's not like I haven't been right the last two or three seasons. I wouldn't have to listen to you on the Engram matter or anything. There's always one person such as yourself every single year claiming he's going to break out, it's going to be worth it, it's going to take time, he's got to be healthy and I've been right every single time. I'll just add you to the collection pile. I'm sorry the truth could sting so much and you feel the need to come to the rescue to defend people you don't know. Unless you are indeed his mother?

Then again, weren't you that same person who was all sensitive about Chrissy Teigen being showcased as the piece of shit that she is on that one thread? Yeah.
Yeah  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 4:06 pm : link
I recall you embarrassing yourself quite thoroughly on that thread as well. Appears to be a trend for you.
RE: Yeah  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 4:12 pm : link
In comment 15323701 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
I recall you embarrassing yourself quite thoroughly on that thread as well. Appears to be a trend for you.


We'll see this season. Even if Engram flops again, we can revisit the trading room floor this time, next year.
RE: Nothing personal against Engram  
Gatorade Dunk : 8/5/2021 4:29 pm : link
In comment 15321408 Chris684 said:
Quote:
He seems like a nice guy, clearly a hard worker that 3 different coaching staffs have vouched for, but he is beyond positive training camp reports at this point in my eyes.

In fact, I’d be surprised if we were getting negative practice reports on him. His problem is when the lights are on and the pressure is up. Can he not fumble? Can he not play tipsies when perfect balls are thrown his way? His tests will come when the games count. I hope for our team’s sake he is awesome but I’m not holding my breath.

How many fumbles do you think Engram has in his career?
Let's play a game...  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 5:06 pm : link
Here are the first four seasons' worth of production for several TEs. Name the TE.

TE#1:

Year 1 - 33 catches, 368 yds, 11.2 ypr, 2 TDs
Year 2 - 59 catches, 621 yds, 10.5 ypr, 2 TDs (3 Fumbles
Year 3 - 76 catches, 849 yds, 11.2 ypr, 11 TDS (2 Fumbles)
Year 4 - 93 catches, 1203 yds, 12.9 ypr, 9 TDs

TE#2:

Year 1 - 35 catches, 347 yds, 9.9 ypr, 1 TD
Year 2 - 87 catches, 980 yds, 11.3 ypr, 6 TDs (2 Fumbles)
Year 3 - 66 catches, 757 yds, 11.5 ypr, 6 TDs
Year 4 - 64 catches, 754 yds, 11.8 ypr, 1 TD

TE#3:

Year 1 - 2 catches, 18 yds, 9 ypc, 0 TDs
Year 2 - 10 catches, 85 yds, 8.5 ypc, 2 TDs
Year 3 - 6 catches, 75 yds, 12.5 ypc, 0 TDs
Year 4 - 90 catchs, 1145 yds, 12.7 ypc, 3 TDs

TE#4:

Year 1 - 64 catches, 722 yds, 11.3 ypr, 6 TDs
Year 2 - 45 catches, 577 yds, 12.8 ypc, 3 TDs
Year 3 - 44 catches, 467 yds, 10.6 ypc, 3 TDs
Year 4 - 63 catches, 654 yds, 10.4 ypc, 1 TD (1 Fumble)
I'll add  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 5:45 pm : link
All of the above have made at least one pro-bowl. One is a HOF, and another is a borderline HOF.
RE: RE: Yeah  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/5/2021 5:48 pm : link
In comment 15323709 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15323701 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


I recall you embarrassing yourself quite thoroughly on that thread as well. Appears to be a trend for you.



We'll see this season. Even if Engram flops again, we can revisit the trading room floor this time, next year.


Don't you dare besmirch the great name of Evan Engram and his great performance here! Don't you know he is one the best TE's in franchise history?

(Some of the shit you read here is hilarious)
RE: I'll add  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 6:48 pm : link
In comment 15323805 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
All of the above have made at least one pro-bowl. One is a HOF, and another is a borderline HOF.


Let's see ... Tony Gonzalez, Jason Witten, Waller, Engram?

Who is the borderline HOF?? Witten is going to the HOF.
RE: RE: I'll add  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 6:56 pm : link
In comment 15323860 Route 9 said:
Quote:
In comment 15323805 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


All of the above have made at least one pro-bowl. One is a HOF, and another is a borderline HOF.



Let's see ... Tony Gonzalez, Jason Witten, Waller, Engram?

Who is the borderline HOF?? Witten is going to the HOF.


Yep. Witten isn't in yet. Would "likely HOF" be more suitable?

For a guy who sucks and plays like a pussy, Engram's numbers sure aren't that far off in his first 4 years in the league when compared to the other 3. Particularly with the added context that he's had to learn 3 different systems and missed significant time to injury in years 2 and 3.
......  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 7:12 pm : link
Shoo-in. Borderline sounds as if you're uncertain. He's within the top 5 of receptions all-time. Witten is one of the best players to play his position for years.

Also, you have to consider some of those Engram touchdowns were garbage points. I think 2018... who cares

Yeah. I got you. He could possibly be a future Tony Gonzalez because I won a BBI Game Show contest. He could also one day be Jason Witten, or he could ... not.
RE: ......  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 7:17 pm : link
Quote:

Yeah. I got you. He could possibly be a future Tony Gonzalez because I won a BBI Game Show contest. He could also one day be Jason Witten, or he could ... not.


I'll take it. Now shake on it...




Gonzalez, Witten, Waller.....Engram?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 7:17 pm : link
What a joke. Kind of reminds me of...





RE: Gonzalez, Witten, Waller.....Engram?  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 7:26 pm : link
In comment 15323882 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
What a joke. Kind of reminds me of...


If Engram puts up 75 rec, 900 yds, 12 ypc and 8 TDs. Still a joke?
RE: RE: Gonzalez, Witten, Waller.....Engram?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 7:57 pm : link
In comment 15323890 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15323882 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


What a joke. Kind of reminds me of...




If Engram puts up 75 rec, 900 yds, 12 ypc and 8 TDs. Still a joke?


Nope.

But if it comes with shitty blocking, the most dropped passes by a TE, several fumbles and/or deflections for picks and inability to run a pick-play without getting an Offensive Pass Interference penalty, then Yep.
RE: RE: RE: Gonzalez, Witten, Waller.....Engram?  
PwndPapi : 8/5/2021 8:12 pm : link
In comment 15323911 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15323890 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15323882 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


What a joke. Kind of reminds me of...




If Engram puts up 75 rec, 900 yds, 12 ypc and 8 TDs. Still a joke?



Nope.

But if it comes with shitty blocking, the most dropped passes by a TE, several fumbles and/or deflections for picks and inability to run a pick-play without getting an Offensive Pass Interference penalty, then Yep.


I suspect he's going to have a pretty good year and the mob will still come out with pitchforks the first time he drops a pass. Some guys become whipping boys, deserving or not. And there's nothing a toxic fanbase likes more than to pile the failings of an entire organization onto the shoulders of a single player.

Hopefully Engram can reserve that with his play.
Evan Engram's career catch percentage is 60% which is pretty mediocre  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/5/2021 8:14 pm : link
And down right bad when you are pass catching specialist (because we are all aware how bad his blocking is).

Hopefully, that goes up as his target share goes down. It was 57% last year, due to increase of going to him contested. He's a nice weapon when there's other pieces around, but because of his inability to make contested or consistent catches, he's best of as 3rd option at most in the pass game. None of those other guys you listed fall under that.
RE: Evan Engram's career catch percentage is 60% which is pretty mediocre  
Route 9 : 8/5/2021 8:18 pm : link
In comment 15323929 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
And down right bad when you are pass catching specialist (because we are all aware how bad his blocking is).

Hopefully, that goes up as his target share goes down. It was 57% last year, due to increase of going to him contested. He's a nice weapon when there's other pieces around, but because of his inability to make contested or consistent catches, he's best of as 3rd option at most in the pass game. None of those other guys you listed fall under that.


You're being toxic. Sooo much to unpack here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Gonzalez, Witten, Waller.....Engram?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/5/2021 9:46 pm : link
In comment 15323928 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15323911 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15323890 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15323882 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


What a joke. Kind of reminds me of...




If Engram puts up 75 rec, 900 yds, 12 ypc and 8 TDs. Still a joke?



Nope.

But if it comes with shitty blocking, the most dropped passes by a TE, several fumbles and/or deflections for picks and inability to run a pick-play without getting an Offensive Pass Interference penalty, then Yep.



I suspect he's going to have a pretty good year and the mob will still come out with pitchforks the first time he drops a pass. Some guys become whipping boys, deserving or not. And there's nothing a toxic fanbase likes more than to pile the failings of an entire organization onto the shoulders of a single player.

Hopefully Engram can reserve that with his play.


Agree on all points.

And you said it...if he deflects a ball that gets picked on opening day you won’t have to wait to hear the criticism on BBI. It will come in loud and clear thru your windows as the fan base curses him out across the country after that play...
Googs.  
Route 9 : 8/6/2021 2:02 am : link
I'll be the first one with my monocle on, wall decor that reads "Working nine to wine" behind me and a folded New York Times paper on my lap. Oh, the best for me, my family and friends who are always there for me when I need to switch my mood.

I'll curse to the highest level of risk, to compensate for all the non-cursing people of New Jersey.

Dracula laugh for my grandfather.
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