He seems like a nice guy, clearly a hard worker that 3 different coaching staffs have vouched for, but he is beyond positive training camp reports at this point in my eyes.
In fact, I’d be surprised if we were getting negative practice reports on him. His problem is when the lights are on and the pressure is up. Can he not fumble? Can he not play tipsies when perfect balls are thrown his way? His tests will come when the games count. I hope for our team’s sake he is awesome but I’m not holding my breath.
and might have actually improved (lord knows there's room for it), but i don't think Engram will ever be more than below average at best when asked to block DL like a "traditional" TE.
AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ASKED TO!
His role as a blocker should be getting on LBs and Safeties downfield, where i think he's shown he can be way above average.
All said, the overwhelming majority of his use in this offense should be as a receiver. Don't overthink his role and he will produce!
to see couch All-Pros question a professional athlete's manhood. Or committment.
You should never question someone's manhood. Or Comittment.
But their performance on the field CAN be questioned. This is the NFL, you have to perform, or you should be cut. This is professional football, it shouldn't be for college red shirts. Potential does NOT cut it.
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
I am hearing Sinorice Moss is still looking good in practice too
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
These are world class professional athletes lining up every Sunday against other highly paid professional athletes. Not everyone fall into a perfect situation where they're mentally ready for the role they're asked to play and where the coaches know exactly how to deploy you. It takes time for these guys build skills on natural talent and become consistent.
It's not as simple as "Don't be a pussy". Half the guys opining on Engram's play here haven't ever played at a low level collegiate level. Let alone the pros. They haven't a clue of what they're watching.
I'll side with the third iteration of coaches who've spoken highly of Engram's work ethic and skill.
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
Ok, but this is Engram's 5th season, and he still has done next to nothing.
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
These are world class professional athletes lining up every Sunday against other highly paid professional athletes. Not everyone fall into a perfect situation where they're mentally ready for the role they're asked to play and where the coaches know exactly how to deploy you. It takes time for these guys build skills on natural talent and become consistent.
It's not as simple as "Don't be a pussy". Half the guys opining on Engram's play here haven't ever played at a low level collegiate level. Let alone the pros. They haven't a clue of what they're watching.
I'll side with the third iteration of coaches who've spoken highly of Engram's work ethic and skill.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
Ok, but this is Engram's 5th season, and he still has done next to nothing.
Engram is heading into his 5th season and he's missed the equivalent of one entire season to injury (or nearly). All I'm saying is some guys are late bloomers.
Engram may be all he's ever going to be, or he might come into his own this season.
Well, I think we all hope he comes into his own this season. I just think the odds of it are slim. & Tiki was a much, much better pro @ this point in his career than Engram. The better comp would be Toomer.
Engram doesn't need to line up against anyone to fuck up. He's does that when he's wide open.
The whole "you're not a pro athlete, so you cannot be critical of a player" point has no purpose. That's even sub-BBI. Save that for a Facebook group or something.
Are you a pro athlete? Are you Engram? Good for you siding with a coach, because, ya, there is no possibility that they could ever be wrong or criticized. To hell with open discourse on a football message board.
Not sure what the point of bringing up Tiki and Toomer is. Tiki wasn't a starter on day one like Engram has been this entire time. Charles Way was carrying the rock in 1997 when Tiki got here lol
Again, we've seen Engram and what he can do (not do) so this whole idea that he's got untapped potential is asinine. We wouldn't see the Giants start losing when if the Giants moved on from him, they already are losing because of him. His mistakes are catastrophic. I've seen some weird posts before but the whole "defending Engram" angle is of the most foolish kind.
Maybe that softness to keep shitty players around for longer than they should be is why the Giants have sucked for the past almost 10 years? Just a theory.
And I hope he can have an Amani Toomer like ascension to his career. I remember Amani being a Summer star and fading in the regular season until he just sort of figured it out. Maybe we get lucky and EE does the same. I don't understand how people get so frustrated with him.
And I hope he can have an Amani Toomer like ascension to his career. I remember Amani being a Summer star and fading in the regular season until he just sort of figured it out. Maybe we get lucky and EE does the same. I don't understand how people get so frustrated with him.
Toomer didn't have the same role Engram did when he got here. Toomer early on was behind Hillard Calloway/ returned punts ...
Engram was supposedly the best guy on the field ... So I was told by BBI.
And I hope he can have an Amani Toomer like ascension to his career. I remember Amani being a Summer star and fading in the regular season until he just sort of figured it out. Maybe we get lucky and EE does the same. I don't understand how people get so frustrated with him.
Agree with this post until the very end. If you don’t understand why people get frustrated with him… you did not watch a game last year. If he catches the ball against Philadelphia we win the division. And he did that over, and over and over again.
And I hope he can have an Amani Toomer like ascension to his career. I remember Amani being a Summer star and fading in the regular season until he just sort of figured it out. Maybe we get lucky and EE does the same. I don't understand how people get so frustrated with him.
Agree with this post until the very end. If you don’t understand why people get frustrated with him… you did not watch a game last year. If he catches the ball against Philadelphia we win the division. And he did that over, and over and over again.
I guess I understand the frustration, I just don't feel it deserves name calling and questioning his manhood and things like that. He's doing his best it's not always perfect, I can live with that. It would be awesome if he morphed into Travis Kelce but as a fan I do not understand why there is so much hatred that feels personal towards a guy you have nothing to do with but watch. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings and opinions, I just don't really let any of it get to me personally. I grew up pretty poor and my parents were immigrants, we were taught pretty early what was truly important and it stuck with me. I'm going to root for him until he's not on our team anymore then I will root for the next guy.
Engram doesn't need to line up against anyone to fuck up. He's does that when he's wide open.
The whole "you're not a pro athlete, so you cannot be critical of a player" point has no purpose. That's even sub-BBI. Save that for a Facebook group or something.
Are you a pro athlete? Are you Engram? Good for you siding with a coach, because, ya, there is no possibility that they could ever be wrong or criticized. To hell with open discourse on a football message board.
Not sure what the point of bringing up Tiki and Toomer is. Tiki wasn't a starter on day one like Engram has been this entire time. Charles Way was carrying the rock in 1997 when Tiki got here lol
Again, we've seen Engram and what he can do (not do) so this whole idea that he's got untapped potential is asinine. We wouldn't see the Giants start losing when if the Giants moved on from him, they already are losing because of him. His mistakes are catastrophic. I've seen some weird posts before but the whole "defending Engram" angle is of the most foolish kind.
Maybe that softness to keep shitty players around for longer than they should be is why the Giants have sucked for the past almost 10 years? Just a theory.
I don’t think anyone is telling you to believe in him, the post above pointed out that some players bloom late which is a completely reasonable opinion to have with countless examples across the league of players who do just that. And fans thinking he has potential has nothing to do with Judge or Gettelman somehow being soft and the reason he’s been retained. In fact, saying he sucks a lot on a message board isn’t “hard” and also has no bearing on whether we keep him or not (clearly, otherwise he’d be gone by now).
Wouldn’t it be cool to root for the guy to find it and do well?
we are all disappointed in Engram's play. But that Joe Judge wants him to stay for at least another year should tell everyone that he sees something he likes. If it does not pan out, he will be let go for FA.
They have Rudolph and other options.
Uconn, not really sure where you're going with this (as usual) it isn't "hard" saying he sucks because he does suck, unless you're being a sexual weirdo? Ha. I joke, pal.
Sorry I have to be the correctional officer around here and lay down the law. Truth stings sometimes. I guess you guys are cupcake soft in this prison.
All kidding around aisde, he did pluck Tiki and Amani's first few years out of the sky. I mean fine, but two completely different positions and two different situations.
Tiki was a ... third down back fair to say? Amani was a punt returner and not a #1 wide receiver. Tiki returned punts, too. So they were special teams players at first trying to claw their way on the field. No problem with that.
Evan Engram was kind of different because he was given the responsibility as the number one tight end on the Giants depth chart.... from day one. Basically agreeing with the above mentioned comments about Engram and we've kind of seen what he could do.
Did Tiki play better because of offensive line improvement? I don't know, but Engram just flat out drops passes. That is his job ... to catch the ball.
because you want to make everything into a bigger issue than it is and have an argument. Have you ever tried speaking to someone cordially on this site? Let me guess, that would be soft?
I don't know who you were originally responding to but that doesn't even matter. The point is that Engram wouldn't be the first guy to find himself later in his career and he also wouldn't be the first to never find it (a very real possibility and one i'm not refuting). But there's a reason he's still here and I don't think its because the Giants are soft, that's a pure reach on your part. Gettelman has turned over half the roster the past couple of years so he's not afraid to cut bait and it completely debunks that theory.
I will be delighted if JJ’s faith in his talent pays off. I’m a Giants fan. They’re “family.”
Same. Depending on the trade offers i would have dealt him too but I understand why keeping him could be an attractive option. Its been a long time since Engram wasn't the #1 on offense - with all the additions + Barkley coming back he's basically the #4 now and presumably a big mismatch for whoever has to handle him. There will be less pressure on him as well.
Found it somewhat surprising he wasn't moved/released this past offseason. But maybe there were no interested parties for reasonable value, or Front Office didn't look at his salary as problematic.
Giants were in the mix on Hunter Henry early in free agency. So possible when that didn't happen and then after Rudolph's foot injury was discovered that Engram's $6M price tag became easier to swallow.
Judge supports him though, and does so publicly and often. Of course he wants the negative plays to decline, and if they do then Engram is at least worth it 2021. And if he picks up his game and shows more impact plays then maybe he is in the mix for more years with the team.
Amen. He’s got the tools. Defenses still have to worry about his speed
So you're saying he had a few good blocks on Ryan and Ryan got frustrated and retaliated (after Engram stood up for Clement)?
I guess if it was Ryan on the receiving end of the blocks, that would help explain why Engram's looked good blocking!
One of my favorite skits.
In fact, I’d be surprised if we were getting negative practice reports on him. His problem is when the lights are on and the pressure is up. Can he not fumble? Can he not play tipsies when perfect balls are thrown his way? His tests will come when the games count. I hope for our team’s sake he is awesome but I’m not holding my breath.
I wish I could say the same for you. And your crew of flunkies.
Mic drop
Same boring jokes.
Same "upside" comments around Giants University.
Different coach, same bullshit.
Yawn. Engram should've been referenced in the past tense by the time 2019 rolled around.
Guy is trash, trash and trash.
AND HE SHOULDN'T BE ASKED TO!
His role as a blocker should be getting on LBs and Safeties downfield, where i think he's shown he can be way above average.
All said, the overwhelming majority of his use in this offense should be as a receiver. Don't overthink his role and he will produce!
i'll believe it when i see it
i'll believe it when i see it
Even this is way too optimistic
And then the season starts and somehow he looks embarrassing when asked to do it during the games...
Mommy is mad someone gave her son a bad grade. Juggling the office life and protecting your cubs, admirable.
You should never question someone's manhood. Or Comittment.
But their performance on the field CAN be questioned. This is the NFL, you have to perform, or you should be cut. This is professional football, it shouldn't be for college red shirts. Potential does NOT cut it.
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
These are world class professional athletes lining up every Sunday against other highly paid professional athletes. Not everyone fall into a perfect situation where they're mentally ready for the role they're asked to play and where the coaches know exactly how to deploy you. It takes time for these guys build skills on natural talent and become consistent.
It's not as simple as "Don't be a pussy". Half the guys opining on Engram's play here haven't ever played at a low level collegiate level. Let alone the pros. They haven't a clue of what they're watching.
I'll side with the third iteration of coaches who've spoken highly of Engram's work ethic and skill.
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
Agree. Engram should have been a farmer...
Ok, but this is Engram's 5th season, and he still has done next to nothing.
Quote:
Engram has had FOUR years to show what he is. And we've seen it. Unless he's been touched by Lightning (The Natural), what we saw is what we're going to get, and that's not good enough to win in this league.
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
These are world class professional athletes lining up every Sunday against other highly paid professional athletes. Not everyone fall into a perfect situation where they're mentally ready for the role they're asked to play and where the coaches know exactly how to deploy you. It takes time for these guys build skills on natural talent and become consistent.
It's not as simple as "Don't be a pussy". Half the guys opining on Engram's play here haven't ever played at a low level collegiate level. Let alone the pros. They haven't a clue of what they're watching.
I'll side with the third iteration of coaches who've spoken highly of Engram's work ethic and skill.
That s a good post👍
Quote:
People forget how long it took guys like Tiki Barber to find consistency in the NFL. Tiki didn't rush 1,000 yards until his 4th season. He then spent the 3 or 4 coughing the ball up an average of 9 times a season. He didn't make the Probowl until his 8th season. Amani Toomer took several seasons to develop too and didn't hit his stride until his 4th season.
Ok, but this is Engram's 5th season, and he still has done next to nothing.
Engram is heading into his 5th season and he's missed the equivalent of one entire season to injury (or nearly). All I'm saying is some guys are late bloomers.
Engram may be all he's ever going to be, or he might come into his own this season.
The whole "you're not a pro athlete, so you cannot be critical of a player" point has no purpose. That's even sub-BBI. Save that for a Facebook group or something.
Are you a pro athlete? Are you Engram? Good for you siding with a coach, because, ya, there is no possibility that they could ever be wrong or criticized. To hell with open discourse on a football message board.
Not sure what the point of bringing up Tiki and Toomer is. Tiki wasn't a starter on day one like Engram has been this entire time. Charles Way was carrying the rock in 1997 when Tiki got here lol
Again, we've seen Engram and what he can do (not do) so this whole idea that he's got untapped potential is asinine. We wouldn't see the Giants start losing when if the Giants moved on from him, they already are losing because of him. His mistakes are catastrophic. I've seen some weird posts before but the whole "defending Engram" angle is of the most foolish kind.
Maybe that softness to keep shitty players around for longer than they should be is why the Giants have sucked for the past almost 10 years? Just a theory.
Toomer didn't have the same role Engram did when he got here. Toomer early on was behind Hillard Calloway/ returned punts ...
Engram was supposedly the best guy on the field ... So I was told by BBI.
Agree with this post until the very end. If you don’t understand why people get frustrated with him… you did not watch a game last year. If he catches the ball against Philadelphia we win the division. And he did that over, and over and over again.
Quote:
And I hope he can have an Amani Toomer like ascension to his career. I remember Amani being a Summer star and fading in the regular season until he just sort of figured it out. Maybe we get lucky and EE does the same. I don't understand how people get so frustrated with him.
Agree with this post until the very end. If you don’t understand why people get frustrated with him… you did not watch a game last year. If he catches the ball against Philadelphia we win the division. And he did that over, and over and over again.
The whole "you're not a pro athlete, so you cannot be critical of a player" point has no purpose. That's even sub-BBI. Save that for a Facebook group or something.
Are you a pro athlete? Are you Engram? Good for you siding with a coach, because, ya, there is no possibility that they could ever be wrong or criticized. To hell with open discourse on a football message board.
Not sure what the point of bringing up Tiki and Toomer is. Tiki wasn't a starter on day one like Engram has been this entire time. Charles Way was carrying the rock in 1997 when Tiki got here lol
Again, we've seen Engram and what he can do (not do) so this whole idea that he's got untapped potential is asinine. We wouldn't see the Giants start losing when if the Giants moved on from him, they already are losing because of him. His mistakes are catastrophic. I've seen some weird posts before but the whole "defending Engram" angle is of the most foolish kind.
Maybe that softness to keep shitty players around for longer than they should be is why the Giants have sucked for the past almost 10 years? Just a theory.
I don’t think anyone is telling you to believe in him, the post above pointed out that some players bloom late which is a completely reasonable opinion to have with countless examples across the league of players who do just that. And fans thinking he has potential has nothing to do with Judge or Gettelman somehow being soft and the reason he’s been retained. In fact, saying he sucks a lot on a message board isn’t “hard” and also has no bearing on whether we keep him or not (clearly, otherwise he’d be gone by now).
Wouldn’t it be cool to root for the guy to find it and do well?
They have Rudolph and other options.
Sorry I have to be the correctional officer around here and lay down the law. Truth stings sometimes. I guess you guys are cupcake soft in this prison.
All kidding around aisde, he did pluck Tiki and Amani's first few years out of the sky. I mean fine, but two completely different positions and two different situations.
Tiki was a ... third down back fair to say? Amani was a punt returner and not a #1 wide receiver. Tiki returned punts, too. So they were special teams players at first trying to claw their way on the field. No problem with that.
Evan Engram was kind of different because he was given the responsibility as the number one tight end on the Giants depth chart.... from day one. Basically agreeing with the above mentioned comments about Engram and we've kind of seen what he could do.
Did Tiki play better because of offensive line improvement? I don't know, but Engram just flat out drops passes. That is his job ... to catch the ball.
I don't know who you were originally responding to but that doesn't even matter. The point is that Engram wouldn't be the first guy to find himself later in his career and he also wouldn't be the first to never find it (a very real possibility and one i'm not refuting). But there's a reason he's still here and I don't think its because the Giants are soft, that's a pure reach on your part. Gettelman has turned over half the roster the past couple of years so he's not afraid to cut bait and it completely debunks that theory.
Same. Depending on the trade offers i would have dealt him too but I understand why keeping him could be an attractive option. Its been a long time since Engram wasn't the #1 on offense - with all the additions + Barkley coming back he's basically the #4 now and presumably a big mismatch for whoever has to handle him. There will be less pressure on him as well.
Giants were in the mix on Hunter Henry early in free agency. So possible when that didn't happen and then after Rudolph's foot injury was discovered that Engram's $6M price tag became easier to swallow.
Judge supports him though, and does so publicly and often. Of course he wants the negative plays to decline, and if they do then Engram is at least worth it 2021. And if he picks up his game and shows more impact plays then maybe he is in the mix for more years with the team.