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NFT: Mets at Marlins Game 2 Walker

ZGiants98 : 8/3/2021 4:44 pm
Mets lineup

CF Brandon Nimmo
1B Pete Alonso
2B Jeff McNeil
SS Javier Baez
LF Dominic Smith
3B J.D. Davis
RF Michael Conforto
C James McCann
RHP Taijuan Walker

Mets are in a serious tailspin right now Gotta try to split this series. Nimmo’s back. LFGM!
a split isnt good enough in this series  
CGiants07 : 8/3/2021 4:48 pm : link
...
RE: a split isnt good enough in this series  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 4:53 pm : link
In comment 15321464 CGiants07 said:
Quote:
...


it's good enough if they win the philly series. id sign for them winning 4/6 right now and its better if 2 of those wins are vs. PHI.
Mets  
Hilary : 8/3/2021 5:04 pm : link
Hard to criticize the Mets in first place with a lot of injuries but I am concerned about the team they are putting together. McCann has stabilized the defense but he is a rally killer, who will reliably strike out or hit into a double play with runners on base. Lindor's contract is too long and he is being paid like Acuna or Trout. Baez is a great athlete who plays hard but he has no plate discipline. Good pitchers will never give him a pitch he can hit. He will likely get a contract like Lindor to justify the loss of a # pick. Alonso is exciting, but McNeil, Smith and Nimmo are the only players who can consistently put the ball in play with runners in scoring position.
They have a lot of players who are easy to like but I do not expect them the make the playoffs. The contract of Lindor and possibly Baez will make it hard for them to improve if the owner has pledged to stay under the luxury tax.
LGM  
Metnut : 8/3/2021 5:36 pm : link
My feeling is that the bats are about to wake up in a huge way.
The Mets have had an awful lot of help to remain in first place.  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 5:42 pm : link
Until last night, every other team in the division was under .500. And the Mets have the lowest winning percentage of any first place team in major league baseball, and it’s not close.

Yes, the team has dealt with an extreme number of injuries. That’s not to be lost in all of this. But then again, so have a lot of teams in baseball this year.

This team is certainly not above criticism. They have vastly under performed, even with the injuries. This lineup that they have out today should absolutely mash the competition. But they are lifeless right now and have been for quite some time. I don’t know what the fix is frankly it’s not my job. But I can’t ever remember being a fan of a first place team for nearly an entire season but not have it feel like they’re first place team the entire season. Weird.
Mets have not hit  
Vanzetti : 8/3/2021 6:00 pm : link
Dom, Conforto, Lindor have OPS well below what you would expect.

No reason to ever throw most of these guys s strike, especially with risp because they consistently chase pitches outside the zone. Everybody does it except Nimmo, Luis and lately McNeil.

I think it is a case of trying to do too much. But it is really hard to watch this offense

this current crop of hitters on this team  
Rory : 8/3/2021 6:31 pm : link
are a very momentum & adrenaline driven group which is ideal for when you have a string of wins heading into a pennant race. Conversely they fail to execute or struggle to get to that point especially that when your battling injuries all season long.

Other players are different then that which might explain why certain bench players, sign on's or call up's performed well when brought on the roster

Hate to say it but the offense was getting there when Lindor started to show a spark, also could say the same for Degrom.

I honestly have no idea how this month will finish up.

btw Cooper, great analysis and I agree.
Gents - sorry if I missed this in past threads  
Drewcon40 : 8/3/2021 6:38 pm : link
..and did not want to start a thread. While we wait for the game, can someone give me the summary of repercussions on the Kumar Rocker decision. Some of you are really plugged in. With Cohen taking over, I was really looking forward to a fresh start, particularly with Boras clients. Are any of you concerned going forward? Does this put the Mets in a bad light in future drafts/free agents? I know Cohen shouldn't have tweeted about the value of draft picks but is this really a small blip or should there be concern about the Mets going forward? Thanks guys.
With respect to Rocker, I’ll let those more plugged in than I to  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 7:09 pm : link
answer your question.

However, with respect to Boras…he’s a snake. We all know who he is and what he does. He’s made a career out of pushing his weight around and he’s very rich because of it. Part of me believes that this was a Cohen power play and enjoy Boras getting the shit end of the stick. But I have zero facts to support that.

I guess there’s plenty to complain about with this situation but I’m ready to move on.
Rough start for Walker but a plus defensive outfield and  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 7:27 pm : link
both this balls are probably caught. Especially the one to Dom.
Welcome back Conforto  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 7:35 pm : link
You still suck.
Okay, this lineup still fucking sucks and nobody here seems to  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 7:55 pm : link
care anyway, lol, so I’m bowing out of what will probably be another depressing loss. Great job, Rojas. Pressing all the right buttons!
Ugh, this team is so frustrating to watch  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:00 pm : link
Offense continues to be so dreadful.

It's 2-0 now, and with the this offense is going, it might as well be 10-0...
I almost feel sorry for Conforto  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:02 pm : link
He picked a shitty time to have a BRUTAL offensive year.....good luck getting a long term contract as a FA
4-0 now  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:06 pm : link
might as well be 15-0.

They'll be out of first by the weekend. If not sooner...
Walker  
pjcas18 : 8/3/2021 8:10 pm : link
sure hit a wall, deGrom sounds like the season is very much in doubt.

So glad the Mets traded their best OF prospect for a FA to be when they could have been sellers and had this same result.
RE: I almost feel sorry for Conforto  
spike : 8/3/2021 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15321673 speedywheels said:
Quote:
He picked a shitty time to have a BRUTAL offensive year.....good luck getting a long term contract as a FA


He will get a 1 year prove it deal from someone other than NYM
RE: Okay, this lineup still fucking sucks and nobody here seems to  
spike : 8/3/2021 8:29 pm : link
In comment 15321667 CooperDash said:
Quote:
care anyway, lol, so I’m bowing out of what will probably be another depressing loss. Great job, Rojas. Pressing all the right buttons!


It might take a miracle to win this game...
They are making a scrub AAA  
spike : 8/3/2021 8:48 pm : link
Marlins pitcher looking like Tom Seaver
RE: RE: I almost feel sorry for Conforto  
moze1021 : 8/3/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15321698 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 15321673 speedywheels said:


Quote:


He picked a shitty time to have a BRUTAL offensive year.....good luck getting a long term contract as a FA



He will get a 1 year prove it deal from someone other than NYM


And he will absolutely mash. That's my bet.
RE: They are making a scrub AAA  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:50 pm : link
In comment 15321706 spike said:
Quote:
Marlins pitcher looking like Tom Seaver


Two hits. Two!
Three!  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:52 pm : link
4-3 now.
mcneil looks like he's really gutting through that hamstring  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 8:53 pm : link
would be a nice time for Conforto to get going here. but I guess we've been saying that for more than a month now.
RE: RE: RE: I almost feel sorry for Conforto  
spike : 8/3/2021 8:54 pm : link
In comment 15321708 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15321698 spike said:


Quote:


In comment 15321673 speedywheels said:


Quote:


He picked a shitty time to have a BRUTAL offensive year.....good luck getting a long term contract as a FA



He will get a 1 year prove it deal from someone other than NYM



And he will absolutely mash. That's my bet.


He should sign with a hitter friendly park like AZ, Cinci or Philly
Conforto's average sinks even further below .200  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:55 pm : link
...
This park  
spike : 8/3/2021 8:55 pm : link
is terrible for homers. Conforto had that one out of there
thought that was crushed off the bat  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 8:56 pm : link
well 1 run game. need the BP to hold.
RE: This park  
speedywheels : 8/3/2021 8:57 pm : link
In comment 15321718 spike said:
Quote:
is terrible for homers. Conforto had that one out of there


Marlins have had no trouble, hitting two tonight. Including one from guy slugging a whopping .263
Phillies up 4-2 TOP 8th  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:02 pm : link
Mets must beat this sorry Marlins team.
Braves up  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:03 pm : link
6-0 on the Cards early 2nd
RE: I almost feel sorry for Conforto  
Vanzetti : 8/3/2021 9:06 pm : link
In comment 15321673 speedywheels said:
Quote:
He picked a shitty time to have a BRUTAL offensive year.....good luck getting a long term contract as a FA


It could work out for Mets, who can likely get him for the QO. Or sign him to a 2 year deal.

To me, bringing back Conforto and Thor are no brainers. But who knows with this management team
lets go BATS  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:06 pm : link
!
Curse of the All Star Game  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:20 pm : link
Walker should have stayed home instead of going to Colorado
All frustration aside…I’d totally be open to bring back Conforto  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 9:28 pm : link
on a discount deal due to his horrific year. He has been a quality player for the Mets but by no means a superstar. He’s barely even an all-star type of player. Just…solid. And at his age, he’s unlikely to get better.

BUT his agent is that piece of shit Boras who will no doubt rake the Mets over the coals with this. So…see ya.
I wish we kept Fargas  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:32 pm : link
who can play CF and has shown flashes of hitting during his brief time.
RE: All frustration aside…I’d totally be open to bring back Conforto  
Vanzetti : 8/3/2021 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15321750 CooperDash said:
Quote:
on a discount deal due to his horrific year. He has been a quality player for the Mets but by no means a superstar. He’s barely even an all-star type of player. Just…solid. And at his age, he’s unlikely to get better.

BUT his agent is that piece of shit Boras who will no doubt rake the Mets over the coals with this. So…see ya.


I can’t stand Boras but I would not blame him for sticking it to the Mets after the Rocker thing. They were basically accusing Boras of withholding information. But he was t. Mets just did not know what they were doing
Bring up Trevor Williams  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:42 pm : link
and do a six man rotation for these tired pitchers
RE: RE: All frustration aside…I’d totally be open to bring back Conforto  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 9:52 pm : link
In comment 15321765 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15321750 CooperDash said:


Quote:


on a discount deal due to his horrific year. He has been a quality player for the Mets but by no means a superstar. He’s barely even an all-star type of player. Just…solid. And at his age, he’s unlikely to get better.

BUT his agent is that piece of shit Boras who will no doubt rake the Mets over the coals with this. So…see ya.



I can’t stand Boras but I would not blame him for sticking it to the Mets after the Rocker thing. They were basically accusing Boras of withholding information. But he was t. Mets just did not know what they were doing


How do? Boras chose to withhold medical information to maximize his earnings. It’s a gamble that he usually wins. But also an unethical one. He got played in his own game.

This isn’t the Wilpons anymore - Cohen doesn’t give a shit. He’s a fucking honey badger.
this isn't  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:55 pm : link
a postseason team.
Must win game tomorrow vs Zach Thompson  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:56 pm : link
No pressure on Mr Carrasco. This season is on the brink.
And oh yeah, Lugo sucks too.  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 9:56 pm : link
This is we’re the rubber meets the road and Rojas is steering a sinking ship.

If I were him; Conforto wouldn’t see the field for a week. He’s an automatic out.
by Monday  
spike : 8/3/2021 9:57 pm : link
the Mets will be out of first place, after the Phillies series
Carrasco's turn tomorrow and his chance to make up for lost time  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 9:58 pm : link
if they ever needed a fresh pitcher to come out and make sure the other team doesn't score first it's the NYM starter for tomorrow. Get that one and go from there.
RE: Carrasco's turn tomorrow and his chance to make up for lost time  
CooperDash : 8/3/2021 10:03 pm : link
In comment 15321782 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
if they ever needed a fresh pitcher to come out and make sure the other team doesn't score first it's the NYM starter for tomorrow. Get that one and go from there.


It won’t matter if they can’t hit. And they won’t.
Pete has to step up  
spike : 8/3/2021 10:08 pm : link
if he wants to be the team leader
If it all goes south  
moespree : 8/3/2021 10:09 pm : link
I do wonder how Cohen will respond. I mean if they blow the lead and finish in 2nd or maybe even 3rd its not going to be a season all that different than the Wilpons. It will be another in a long line of underachieving disappointments.

I think the makeup of the front office moving forward is pretty important. I don't have much confidence in the team of Alderson/Scott. They could not have predicted these players would play below their career averages, so I don't blame them for that. But I'm not exactly confident in them either.
the best way for Cohen to respond would be a performance team overhaul  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 10:21 pm : link
it's not just players playing under their baselines but also players playing under their baselines of games played. Some were the unpreventable kind and others were soft tissue injuries. And some were bad decisions.

So imo if Cohen wants to do something productive he should invest tens of millions of dollars into a truly state of the art performance and support team. There is so much rapidly advancing technology and if the Mets happen to be using it already then they need to hire some smarter people who know how to make actionable decisions.
I am a loss to understand  
NewBlue : 8/3/2021 10:23 pm : link
How a talent like Comforto cant get out of his own way here on August 3.
Slumps are slumps but decent players come out of it after a while was it the pressure of the contract year?


RE: I am a loss to understand  
Eric on Li : 8/3/2021 11:23 pm : link
In comment 15321801 NewBlue said:
Quote:
How a talent like Comforto cant get out of his own way here on August 3.
Slumps are slumps but decent players come out of it after a while was it the pressure of the contract year?


I think yes. Candidly if the numbers his camp was throwing around before the season were accurate (article below was from Martino in Feb) - he was setting himself up for failure. For his career he has been a solid .800+ OPS player. Last year wasn't a year it was 2 months but I think that's the performance he had to be banking on (900+ ops) to get the kind of money springer got as a non CF'er.

more often than not players don't have career years, they have their typical year. That's why it's their typical year. Add the contract distraction, an injury, some bad luck (.247 babip?!?!?) and you get a sub-typical year.
What a Mets/Michael Conforto contract extension negotiation will likely look like - ( New Window )
I think,  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 1:59 am : link
Cohen was never exceeding the luxury tax this season. This was about avoiding penalties on going over luxury tax in 2023. that's a strategy I agree with. But with what the Mets have this year, the pieces are in place to win the division.

Losing deGrom and Lindor in this stretch is horrific. Getting those guys back and not surrending the division before Sep 1st is still a chance. But they need to play .600+ ball when they get those guys back, and they can't fall far behind before that happens.
RE: RE: I am a loss to understand  
moze1021 : 8/4/2021 8:25 am : link
In comment 15321825 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15321801 NewBlue said:


Quote:


How a talent like Comforto cant get out of his own way here on August 3.
Slumps are slumps but decent players come out of it after a while was it the pressure of the contract year?




I think yes. Candidly if the numbers his camp was throwing around before the season were accurate (article below was from Martino in Feb) - he was setting himself up for failure. For his career he has been a solid .800+ OPS player. Last year wasn't a year it was 2 months but I think that's the performance he had to be banking on (900+ ops) to get the kind of money springer got as a non CF'er.

more often than not players don't have career years, they have their typical year. That's why it's their typical year. Add the contract distraction, an injury, some bad luck (.247 babip?!?!?) and you get a sub-typical year. What a Mets/Michael Conforto contract extension negotiation will likely look like - ( New Window )


Well... I've always thought of Confortoas a 900 OPS guy... 2017 before the shoulder injury and then once he got back to full strength almost 2 years after shoulder surgery in 2019...

I thought he was 2nd best hitter on team heading into the year (behind Lindor)... and now I still think he is 2nd most talented hitter on the team (now behind Alonso, since Lindor is not anywhere near the top 5 offensive player in baseball I ignorantly thought we were getting since I dont watch AL)...

So I, too, am shocked at how bad he has been.

Only explanation is what you've said... he cracked under the pressure of trying to put the numbers up to justify the contract he wanted.

Always been a huge Conforto fan and wanted him to be a career Met, but I think it's obvious that he is gone unless something changes.

Still possible he catches fire and carries the team to a WS... but doubtful based on what he's been doing
In the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson,  
Section331 : 8/4/2021 9:33 am : link
"The ship be sinkin'".
RE: RE: RE: I am a loss to understand  
Rory : 8/4/2021 6:14 pm : link
In comment 15321891 moze1021 said:
Quote:
In comment 15321825 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15321801 NewBlue said:


Quote:


How a talent like Comforto cant get out of his own way here on August 3.
Slumps are slumps but decent players come out of it after a while was it the pressure of the contract year?




I think yes. Candidly if the numbers his camp was throwing around before the season were accurate (article below was from Martino in Feb) - he was setting himself up for failure. For his career he has been a solid .800+ OPS player. Last year wasn't a year it was 2 months but I think that's the performance he had to be banking on (900+ ops) to get the kind of money springer got as a non CF'er.

more often than not players don't have career years, they have their typical year. That's why it's their typical year. Add the contract distraction, an injury, some bad luck (.247 babip?!?!?) and you get a sub-typical year. What a Mets/Michael Conforto contract extension negotiation will likely look like - ( New Window )



Well... I've always thought of Confortoas a 900 OPS guy... 2017 before the shoulder injury and then once he got back to full strength almost 2 years after shoulder surgery in 2019...

I thought he was 2nd best hitter on team heading into the year (behind Lindor)... and now I still think he is 2nd most talented hitter on the team (now behind Alonso, since Lindor is not anywhere near the top 5 offensive player in baseball I ignorantly thought we were getting since I dont watch AL)...

So I, too, am shocked at how bad he has been.

Only explanation is what you've said... he cracked under the pressure of trying to put the numbers up to justify the contract he wanted.

Always been a huge Conforto fan and wanted him to be a career Met, but I think it's obvious that he is gone unless something changes.

Still possible he catches fire and carries the team to a WS... but doubtful based on what he's been doing


really got to wonder if he's hiding an injury, it really doesnt make sense.
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