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NFT: Mets at Marlins Game 3. Carrasco

ZGiants98 : 8/4/2021 6:37 pm
Mets lineup

CF Brandon Nimmo
2B Jeff McNeil
1B Pete Alonso
LF Dominic Smith
SS Javier Baez
RF Michael Conforto
3B Jonathan Villar
C Tomas Nido
RHP Carlos Carrasco

Can the Mets win a frickin game?? Diaz on paternity leave tonight. LFGM!
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Jake Reed recalled from Syracuse  
ZGiants98 : 8/4/2021 6:38 pm : link
Marlins Lineup

Jazz Chisholm – SS
Isan Diaz – 2B
Jesus Aguilar – 1B
Lewis Brinson – CF
Brian Anderson – 3B
Jorge Alfaro – LF
Bryan De La Cruz – RF
Alex Jackson – C
Zach Thompson – RHP
hate to say it but if Mets get swept by Marlins  
Rory : 8/4/2021 7:06 pm : link
I think Rojas is on the path to the hot seat.

Not that I want it but I could see Mets FO going there since he was not Sandy/Scott's pick and a scapegoat will be needed.
RE: hate to say it but if Mets get swept by Marlins  
ZGiants98 : 8/4/2021 7:13 pm : link
In comment 15322671 Rory said:
Quote:
I think Rojas is on the path to the hot seat.

Not that I want it but I could see Mets FO going there since he was not Sandy/Scott's pick and a scapegoat will be needed.


Sure but it wont happen in season. Offseason.
RE: RE: hate to say it but if Mets get swept by Marlins  
Rory : 8/4/2021 7:20 pm : link
In comment 15322687 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 15322671 Rory said:


Quote:


I think Rojas is on the path to the hot seat.

Not that I want it but I could see Mets FO going there since he was not Sandy/Scott's pick and a scapegoat will be needed.



Sure but it wont happen in season. Offseason.


agreed
When Lindor comes back...  
JayBinQueens : 8/4/2021 7:25 pm : link
this line up is so long. If only they can get hot

CF Nimmo
SS Lindor
1B Alonso
LF Smith
2B Baez
3B McNeil
RF Conforto
C Nido/Mccann
P

(move them around as you please)
Luis Guillorme  
Elijah Pitts : 8/4/2021 7:46 pm : link
The Mets need guys who work the count and get on base. Guillorme has an OBP over 400 this year and last, and he is walking more than he strikes out. He doesn’t hit for power, but getting on base is still an essential skill. Plus his defense is usually excellent.
How was baez safe on that slide lol  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/4/2021 8:05 pm : link
.
RE: Luis Guillorme  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 8:35 pm : link
In comment 15322714 Elijah Pitts said:
Quote:
The Mets need guys who work the count and get on base. Guillorme has an OBP over 400 this year and last, and he is walking more than he strikes out. He doesn’t hit for power, but getting on base is still an essential skill. Plus his defense is usually excellent.


Who are you benching for Guillorme (currently on IL)?

You can't. You're not benching McNeil, Báez, or Lindor.
Who would've thought?  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 8:35 pm : link
All you needed to do was give the Mets a Cookie and everything would be ok?
RE: RE: Luis Guillorme  
spike : 8/4/2021 8:37 pm : link
In comment 15322768 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15322714 Elijah Pitts said:


Quote:


The Mets need guys who work the count and get on base. Guillorme has an OBP over 400 this year and last, and he is walking more than he strikes out. He doesn’t hit for power, but getting on base is still an essential skill. Plus his defense is usually excellent.



Who are you benching for Guillorme (currently on IL)?

You can't. You're not benching McNeil, Báez, or Lindor.


He can certainly give each player a rest day a week, along with D Smith (with Mcneil).
RE: RE: RE: Luis Guillorme  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 8:44 pm : link
In comment 15322772 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 15322768 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 15322714 Elijah Pitts said:


Quote:


The Mets need guys who work the count and get on base. Guillorme has an OBP over 400 this year and last, and he is walking more than he strikes out. He doesn’t hit for power, but getting on base is still an essential skill. Plus his defense is usually excellent.



Who are you benching for Guillorme (currently on IL)?

You can't. You're not benching McNeil, Báez, or Lindor.



He can certainly give each player a rest day a week, along with D Smith (with Mcneil).


No. Not me, only if they "need" it. In a pennant race. All important games the rest of the way and I need to play my big bats every day. Keep in mind Báex and Lindor are also GG'ers. You're keeping that group together. This is overthinking it.

You just can't take one out of those 3 or 4 bats out of the lineup 3-4 times a week for Guillorme. And I like Luis.
Cant even get  
spike : 8/4/2021 8:54 pm : link
five innnings out of Carrasco.
RE: Cant even get  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 9:04 pm : link
In comment 15322782 spike said:
Quote:
five innnings out of Carrasco.


They can, at this point it's a function of lengthening him put and not having him pitch the third time through the order, particularly with the top of the order coming up with RISP. If he gets a double play out of the Panik AB, I think he gets the 6th.

But remember, Carrasco only went three innings in his rehab starts, I think 4 IP in his first start for the Mets, so they are still stretching him out.
Drury  
spike : 8/4/2021 9:07 pm : link
should get more starts over Conforto.
3 hits thru 6 innings  
nygfaninorlando : 8/4/2021 9:09 pm : link
so far tonight. Getting tough to watch.
Anyone confident the Mets bullpen  
nygfaninorlando : 8/4/2021 9:12 pm : link
can shut them down the rest of the game?
And no Edwin Diaz  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 9:13 pm : link
Tonight.

Come on bats. Please wake up.
This starting rotation  
Cyrus the Great : 8/4/2021 9:23 pm : link
Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.
I can get behind letting a player hit their way out of a slump  
CooperDash : 8/4/2021 9:26 pm : link
But Conforto is weeeeelllllllll past that. He’s a severe detriment to the team at this point. A literal zero. Rojas had no problem sitting McCann earlier in the season. Not sure why it’s different for Conforto.
RE: This starting rotation  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:28 pm : link
In comment 15322813 Cyrus the Great said:
Quote:
Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.


and trade who?
They have to fire this hitting coach  
spike : 8/4/2021 9:29 pm : link
and maybe rehire the old one.
cont. : did you not see  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:30 pm : link
the prospect cost for SPs traded?
Seems like the hitting approach  
nygfaninorlando : 8/4/2021 9:31 pm : link
sucks up and down the lineup. Batter after batter swinging at pitches out of the strike zone. Pitchers know they don’t need to throw strikes to get them to swing.
RE: They have to fire this hitting coach  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15322819 spike said:
Quote:
and maybe rehire the old one.


Chilli Davis was a scapegoat. should have kept him
RE: RE: This starting rotation  
Cyrus the Great : 8/4/2021 9:35 pm : link
In comment 15322817 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15322813 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.



and trade who?


Someone like Michael Pineda could have been a good pickup. I can't imagine Pineda would fetch that much of a pricetag. Perhaps Arrietta could have been traded for as well, idk what Chicago would have took for him. You are correct that the SP market was shit but it did not make sense not to add anyone(except this Williams guy who is in AAA). They need an innings eater, not an ace. Now they dont have either.
Another wasted opportunity  
nygfaninorlando : 8/4/2021 9:36 pm : link
leaving the bases loaded in the 7th.
Yes, Chili was a scapegoat  
CooperDash : 8/4/2021 9:38 pm : link
But the offense was horrible then and has continued to be horrible. I don’t know much about who took Chili’s place but it’s apparent that they didn’t change a single thing. Which is disappointing. If you are going to fire someone then you sure as hell better change something. I’m not into firing someone for nothing.
RE: RE: RE: This starting rotation  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:39 pm : link
In comment 15322830 Cyrus the Great said:
Quote:
In comment 15322817 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 15322813 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.



and trade who?



Someone like Michael Pineda could have been a good pickup. I can't imagine Pineda would fetch that much of a pricetag. Perhaps Arrietta could have been traded for as well, idk what Chicago would have took for him. You are correct that the SP market was shit but it did not make sense not to add anyone(except this Williams guy who is in AAA). They need an innings eater, not an ace. Now they dont have either.


no who do the Mets trade?

bc if you didn't like PCA for Baez I don't think you'd be fond of seeing what it would have taken to get Pineda either.

Look at what Phils traded for Gibson
Got to lay off Carrasco.  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 9:40 pm : link
The guy is a stud. He'll be pitching into the 7th and possibly 8th before too long.

Hill is mostly a 5 IP.

But mostly it's not about CAN a pitcher go deeper in games, but how managers are using analytics that say it's better to bring in the bullpen for the third time through the order.

It's the way games are being managed, not actual physical limitations on guys

In Megill's case, he runs up his pitch count a lot, so he's probably more of a 5 IP right now until he can get more efficient.

RE: Yes, Chili was a scapegoat  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:43 pm : link
In comment 15322835 CooperDash said:
Quote:
But the offense was horrible then and has continued to be horrible. I don’t know much about who took Chili’s place but it’s apparent that they didn’t change a single thing. Which is disappointing. If you are going to fire someone then you sure as hell better change something. I’m not into firing someone for nothing.


honestly coop, I think pitchers just figured our guys out and this current crop of players (except Alonso-McNeil) aren't good enough to make adjustments on their own and still be as good.
Baez  
Rory : 8/4/2021 9:48 pm : link
with the HR
RE: RE: RE: RE: This starting rotation  
Cyrus the Great : 8/4/2021 9:48 pm : link
In comment 15322836 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15322830 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


In comment 15322817 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 15322813 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.



and trade who?



Someone like Michael Pineda could have been a good pickup. I can't imagine Pineda would fetch that much of a pricetag. Perhaps Arrietta could have been traded for as well, idk what Chicago would have took for him. You are correct that the SP market was shit but it did not make sense not to add anyone(except this Williams guy who is in AAA). They need an innings eater, not an ace. Now they dont have either.



no who do the Mets trade?

bc if you didn't like PCA for Baez I don't think you'd be fond of seeing what it would have taken to get Pineda either.

Look at what Phils traded for Gibson


I don't mind them giving up PCA, prospects are essentially just lottery tickets. My main issue with the Baez trade is that I feel it will only marginally benefit the Mets once Lindor comes back. He is a big name but if you objectivley look at his offensive metrics, he is worse in most categories than Davis and McNeil. Dude homered as I was typing this lol. His glove at second will be what benefits them most when Lindor returns. I know a pitcher would have cost a lot, but in my opinion not adding a pitcher nearly equates to surrendering any chance of winning this year.
RE: RE: Yes, Chili was a scapegoat  
CooperDash : 8/4/2021 9:49 pm : link
In comment 15322841 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 15322835 CooperDash said:


Quote:


But the offense was horrible then and has continued to be horrible. I don’t know much about who took Chili’s place but it’s apparent that they didn’t change a single thing. Which is disappointing. If you are going to fire someone then you sure as hell better change something. I’m not into firing someone for nothing.



honestly coop, I think pitchers just figured our guys out and this current crop of players (except Alonso-McNeil) aren't good enough to make adjustments on their own and still be as good.


Totally agree, but that’s what we have coaches for. And when you have an entire lineup underperforming, that’s on them too. And it’s been the entire season.

I know that people don’t put much stock in managers/coaches making any impact on wins and losses…I wholeheartedly disagree. They play a massive role in the success of a team. Maybe it’s an approach thing. Who knows.

BUT - we know that things can turn on a dime in sports. Hopefully that happens here. Maybe Baez is just what they need - a brash player that can be a jolt of lightning for them.
this baez guy seems to make things happen  
Eric on Li : 8/4/2021 9:50 pm : link
6 outs to go without Diaz and Lugo threw 2 yesterday. Would be really nice to put up a big inning here.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This starting rotation  
Eric on Li : 8/4/2021 9:53 pm : link
In comment 15322847 Cyrus the Great said:
Quote:
I don't mind them giving up PCA, prospects are essentially just lottery tickets. My main issue with the Baez trade is that I feel it will only marginally benefit the Mets once Lindor comes back. He is a big name but if you objectivley look at his offensive metrics, he is worse in most categories than Davis and McNeil. Dude homered as I was typing this lol. His glove at second will be what benefits them most when Lindor returns. I know a pitcher would have cost a lot, but in my opinion not adding a pitcher nearly equates to surrendering any chance of winning this year.


there were arguably only 2 SP traded appreciably better than what they have. Scherzer refused to come here and Berrios would have cost a ton (what was the rumor Dom + Mauricio?). They inquired on both and rightfully passed on Berrios at that price.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This starting rotation  
GF1080 : 8/4/2021 9:55 pm : link
In comment 15322847 Cyrus the Great said:
Quote:
In comment 15322836 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 15322830 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


In comment 15322817 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 15322813 Cyrus the Great said:


Quote:


Simply is not capable of carrying this team to the postseason. They basically have three guys who can go past five innings, one of whom is out till september. It feels like until relativly recently they did a couple bullpen games a week. The bullpen will crumble under that workload. The lineup underperforming only cements their status as a mediocre at best team. Ive hated the Baez trade since the second it was announced, it was a boneheaded move not to add a decent starting pitcher who can at least eat some innings.



and trade who?



Someone like Michael Pineda could have been a good pickup. I can't imagine Pineda would fetch that much of a pricetag. Perhaps Arrietta could have been traded for as well, idk what Chicago would have took for him. You are correct that the SP market was shit but it did not make sense not to add anyone(except this Williams guy who is in AAA). They need an innings eater, not an ace. Now they dont have either.



no who do the Mets trade?

bc if you didn't like PCA for Baez I don't think you'd be fond of seeing what it would have taken to get Pineda either.

Look at what Phils traded for Gibson



I don't mind them giving up PCA, prospects are essentially just lottery tickets. My main issue with the Baez trade is that I feel it will only marginally benefit the Mets once Lindor comes back. He is a big name but if you objectivley look at his offensive metrics, he is worse in most categories than Davis and McNeil. Dude homered as I was typing this lol. His glove at second will be what benefits them most when Lindor returns. I know a pitcher would have cost a lot, but in my opinion not adding a pitcher nearly equates to surrendering any chance of winning this year.


There's talk Baez will go to 3B once Lindor returns. Mcneil's best position is 2B and they don't want to move him.
Báez  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:03 pm : link
Is the difference in this game. Not just for the homer, but the amazing slide at the plate when he was dead to rights. There's only a few guys in baseball that makes that play.

To me, Báez, even though he has his dowside (OBP/K-rate), is EXACTLY what this team needs. Remember he has a ring, as well. A guy who's been where the Mets want to go. And he brings an attitude that frankly I think this team needs. A little edge has been missing. We all know what they say about nice guys.

I hope they extend him.
it sounds like mcneil's defense the past couple days made them  
Eric on Li : 8/4/2021 10:04 pm : link
reconsider moving him to 3rd. I'd love to see a Lindor/Baez double play combo but Baez has experience playing 3b well and I think he'd do better shifting there in season than McNeil. Good to have good options though. Especially since JDD's hand sounds like it may hinder him the rest of the year.
The Mets have scored 5 runs tonight  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:07 pm : link
Only 1 scored via an RBI hit. The Báez homer, obviously.
RE: Báez  
Eric on Li : 8/4/2021 10:08 pm : link
In comment 15322864 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Is the difference in this game. Not just for the homer, but the amazing slide at the plate when he was dead to rights. There's only a few guys in baseball that makes that play.

To me, Báez, even though he has his dowside (OBP/K-rate), is EXACTLY what this team needs. Remember he has a ring, as well. A guy who's been where the Mets want to go. And he brings an attitude that frankly I think this team needs. A little edge has been missing. We all know what they say about nice guys.

I hope they extend him.


Agreed. imo he impacts the game in a lot more ways than Bryant would have. So while we were all resigned to the possibility of some kind of less than PCA package for Bryant as a pure rental (JDD, Ginn, Palmer, Vientos), Baez delivers a lot more impact for the higher cost of acquisition. And his flexibility makes him a candidate to extend.
It sucks JD is banged up still  
ZGiants98 : 8/4/2021 10:22 pm : link
because Villar needs to go back to the bench as soon as possible. JD should be playing third base every damn day. My god, its not like we couldnt use a effing .900 OPS bat right now in the lineup.

And when Lindor comes back they better figure out some sort of a rotation. Play McNeil at 2B, RF, and LF. Play Baez at 3B and 2B. Rotate Dom and Conforto in and out. And keep JD's bat in the lineup as often as possible.

we suck  
spike : 8/4/2021 10:35 pm : link
.
Good signs from  
ZGiants98 : 8/4/2021 10:35 pm : link
Conforto.

Man could we use him right now...
Twice late in the game Rojas  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:38 pm : link
Could've pinch hit for Nido with McCann with a lefty in the game and runners on.

McCann has about an .850 OPS vs lefties this year, Nido about .650.

Now it's a 2-run game. Could've easily had a 4 run lead or more here.
RE: Good signs from  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15322897 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Conforto.

Man could we use him right now...


Conforto has quietly been getting some good ABs lately. Nice to see him get a couple of hits out of it tonight, but he's really taking good swings right now.
McNeil’s value is his versatility  
Vanzetti : 8/4/2021 10:41 pm : link
He can play four different positions at a passsble level.

If you just stick him at second , you lose what makes him so special.
Lol Angel Hernandez  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:42 pm : link
Worst umpire in baseball.
RE: Twice late in the game Rojas  
Vanzetti : 8/4/2021 10:43 pm : link
In comment 15322900 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Could've pinch hit for Nido with McCann with a lefty in the game and runners on.

McCann has about an .850 OPS vs lefties this year, Nido about .650.

Now it's a 2-run game. Could've easily had a 4 run lead or more here.


Nido had a good AB. Swung at strikes, worked the count. He just got beat with a fastball .
as frustrating as conforto's season has been he has had bad luck  
Eric on Li : 8/4/2021 10:47 pm : link
and those things usually even out.

his average exit velocity is exactly the same as it was last year and his hard hit rate is up.
His xwoba this year is .349 and was .374 last year. That's not a very big difference.
his K rate is down 2%.
walk rate is up 3%.

so what's making this season so terrible compared to last year?
last year his BABIP was .412 (ridiculously high, highest in MLB last year and next closest was .396).
this year his BABIP is .242 coming into tonights game (would be 8th lowest in MLB among qualifiers).

when the hits were falling in last year he hit .322.
with hits not falling in this year he is hitting .197.

and again on the exact same average exit velocity and a higher hard hit %. Sometimes the defense is right where they need to be. But generally in baseball things even out close to the norms.
RE: RE: Twice late in the game Rojas  
allstarjim : 8/4/2021 10:49 pm : link
In comment 15322907 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 15322900 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Could've pinch hit for Nido with McCann with a lefty in the game and runners on.

McCann has about an .850 OPS vs lefties this year, Nido about .650.

Now it's a 2-run game. Could've easily had a 4 run lead or more here.



Nido had a good AB. Swung at strikes, worked the count. He just got beat with a fastball .


No bro. He swung at balls way out of the strikezone.

Anyway, it was a poor decision regardless of how good an AB he had. Ultimately Nido didn't produce when you have a legit hitter against lefties on your bench.
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