Doesn't change who he is as a human being but this thread is about the Knicks and he finally seems to have gotten the right people to run them.
Kudos to Rose, Thibodeau and their staffs too. There's nothing better in NY sports than meaningful NBA games at MSG.
I agree with everything the people on this thread are saying about the job Rose has done since he took over. I'm sure David Stern is looking down and having a laugh thinking it only took 20 years for the Knicks to become a model of intelligent management.
I'm looking forward to watching both MSG teams this season and since this is a Giants board all three seasons can't get here quickly enough.
Randle does not need to play 40 min. I'd also like to see times when Obi and Randle can play the 4/5 together. It won't be often but they should find times to do it.
I agree but as of now Obi has three guys ahead of him on the depth chart at center. Obi's gotta come to camp and show he can hang defensinvely or else his role will be limited to Randle's caddy again.
Obi was great defensively the last month plus of the year.
the ball should be out of his hands more than last year. His assist numbers will dip (which is not a big deal at all) but he should get more easy looks.
Probably won't happen with Thibs coaching, but with better depth and other guys that can create/score, they should be able to play him less than 38 mpg which could help come playoff time.
Kemba, Fournier and a hopefully improved Obi in the mix, Randle doesn't have to play so many minutes. We talk about load management for the older guards, but Randle looked exhausted in the playoffs.
I'm last one person who should be evaluating NBA players
But from what I saw last year there are things Obi can do that no one else on the team can do athletically. He was completely lost the first half of the season but in the second half you could see his raw skill set. I wouldn't give up on him so fast and I'll guess that he forces he way into more minutes as the season goes along.
He doesn't create easy opportunities for himself with any consistency.
He made a remarkable number of contested shots during the season, raising the question: Can he keep doing this?
The answer in the playoffs was: no.
Smart to take the money now.
Here is my opinion on Randle. On one hand its "fool's gold" to think Randle should continue to take on a Lebron-like burden in terms of initiating offense in addition to scoring, rebounding etc. As a secondary facilitator though, he is well equipped with recently developed skills (big jump from years prior). But I love him in an environment where there is a viable lead guard as opposed to Elfrid Payton and with added shooting/playmaking from the wing (replacing Bullock w Fournier).
does Thibs play him more with Randle? or does he become trade bait?
Obi is a great problem to have, work him in slow take minutes from Randle, and give him rest. He only averaged 11 minutes last year if he can play 15-20 this year you can bring Randle to 35 minutes.
If he develops into a lottery-level talent you can move Randle on his last year or trade Obi before his 2nd deal.
I can't find the stats and plus/minus isn't the best stat
But when you look at the stat every game it tells a lot. The last month or so of the season, Obi was always one of the top Knicks in plus minus. And over that extended period of time I think it does tell a good story. His defense was greatly improved. His rotations were great and he made some awesome defensive plays. I'm not saying he's going to be able to handle one on one matchups against centers but he has a much better understanding mentally of how to play defense and he puts in the work. His growth was great for a rookie. On top of that, we can't just kill a player and say he doesn't do X well without looking at the whole picture. Putting him on the court against specific players is most likely a huge advantage for him offensively. That is why Obi looked so good in the playoffs. When Capela went to the bench nobody could match Obi's athleticism. We need to make teams adapt to us just as much as we adapt to them. Just like Mitch and Noel provide defense and limited offense, you can make an argument that Obi provides offense and just enough defense to warrant giving him those opportunities.
Having the offense feed through him every time down also means that basically all of his minutes were high intensity minutes. If you've got other stars or guys that can initiate the offense, you can use him as a decoy often and allow him to conserve some energy.
Having the offense feed through him every time down also means that basically all of his minutes were high intensity minutes. If you've got other stars or guys that can initiate the offense, you can use him as a decoy often and allow him to conserve some energy.
We agree 100%. See my post a few up. Different ways of saying the same thing.
RE: I can't find the stats and plus/minus isn't the best stat
But when you look at the stat every game it tells a lot. The last month or so of the season, Obi was always one of the top Knicks in plus minus. And over that extended period of time I think it does tell a good story. His defense was greatly improved. His rotations were great and he made some awesome defensive plays. I'm not saying he's going to be able to handle one on one matchups against centers but he has a much better understanding mentally of how to play defense and he puts in the work. His growth was great for a rookie. On top of that, we can't just kill a player and say he doesn't do X well without looking at the whole picture. Putting him on the court against specific players is most likely a huge advantage for him offensively. That is why Obi looked so good in the playoffs. When Capela went to the bench nobody could match Obi's athleticism. We need to make teams adapt to us just as much as we adapt to them. Just like Mitch and Noel provide defense and limited offense, you can make an argument that Obi provides offense and just enough defense to warrant giving him those opportunities.
The bench was just good overall, much better than thr starters and obi was 100% part of that and hr absolutely played better, stop settling and started attacking more..
But when you look at the stat every game it tells a lot. The last month or so of the season, Obi was always one of the top Knicks in plus minus. And over that extended period of time I think it does tell a good story. His defense was greatly improved. His rotations were great and he made some awesome defensive plays. I'm not saying he's going to be able to handle one on one matchups against centers but he has a much better understanding mentally of how to play defense and he puts in the work. His growth was great for a rookie. On top of that, we can't just kill a player and say he doesn't do X well without looking at the whole picture. Putting him on the court against specific players is most likely a huge advantage for him offensively. That is why Obi looked so good in the playoffs. When Capela went to the bench nobody could match Obi's athleticism. We need to make teams adapt to us just as much as we adapt to them. Just like Mitch and Noel provide defense and limited offense, you can make an argument that Obi provides offense and just enough defense to warrant giving him those opportunities.
The bench was just good overall, much better than thr starters and obi was 100% part of that and hr absolutely played better, stop settling and started attacking more..
Yes but compared to even the other bench guys his plus minus was always one of the best. Again, not the end all be all but I think it speaks to how well he was playing overall on both ends of the floor when he was on the court.
Knicks will finish over .500 (assuming no major injury to JR) and will be a 4-6 seed without giving up the future, and have chips to trade. What's not to like? They weren't signing Chris Paul.
RE: I really feel like they have their eyes on Zion
are just not going to be happy unless we sign KD, Kawhi, trade for lillard, and Donovan Mitchell to come over for the MLE. This was a strong offseason, they improved an already solid team that is filled with mostly players either in their prime (Randle, Fournier) or still improving (RJ, IQ, Obi, Mitch) and then a few key vets to fill out the rotation. Look had we signed Chris Paul everyone would be whining how bad the last 2 years of that deal will be. I am pumped for next year. We have been awful for so long that its not like if we are the 6 seed in a strong east im going to be dissapointed.
Remember to everyonr says Kemba was terrible last year
he was 20 and 5, that was his terrible, and he replaces the worst point guard in the NBA, he was 28, 5 and 5 to finish the year last year on 50% shooting..
I can't see where Obi is not a trade chip at this point. Thibs has shown no inclination to play him at the 5. They just resigned Noel as a backup.
I have to feel Obi is trade bait and I have heard he would not mind being traded to a place he can get more time.
The summer league will be interesting as they try build up his value. I truly believe he is a chip for Myles Turner. He would be a good athletic 4 to play with Sabonis.
I can't see where Obi is not a trade chip at this point. Thibs has shown no inclination to play him at the 5. They just resigned Noel as a backup.
I have to feel Obi is trade bait and I have heard he would not mind being traded to a place he can get more time.
The summer league will be interesting as they try build up his value. I truly believe he is a chip for Myles Turner. He would be a good athletic 4 to play with Sabonis.
Seems like Obi would have been traded at/during the draft and/or before they filled out their roster. Sure, if Myles Turner is somehow traded but there is no other backup 4 on the roster nor did it appear they tried adding one via draft or FA. Noel/Mitch can't play the 4.
he was 20 and 5, that was his terrible, and he replaces the worst point guard in the NBA, he was 28, 5 and 5 to finish the year last year on 50% shooting..
It was a tale of two seasons for Kemba which makes sense in context. Second half post-all star break he was much better and his numbers looked just as they did in the previous year when he was an all-star. Because of the stem cell injection just prior to the season and trying to recover on the fly, second half Kemba is the one we should get assuming he stays healthy.
I can’t say that I love the extension simply because he was SO bad
in the postseason that I would’ve preferred to see Randle do it again before I extended him. (Yes, I know that would be more expensive.) But I’m not going to kill it. There’s just more risk going in. I truly hope that he can pick up where he left off and that the depth of the roster, as well as an improving RJ and Obi, takes some of the load off of his shoulders.
really like the Walker move but I wouldn't assume his knee is "fine". He looked absolutely awful vs. the Nets and then missed 2 games due to the knee and Woj noted when the OKC deal went down that they had doubts his knee would hold up enough for him to be a major contributor for the length of the deal. I suspect he'll be a bit of a cocktease, good stretch of games, games missed due to the knee and games in between.
really like the Walker move but I wouldn't assume his knee is "fine". He looked absolutely awful vs. the Nets and then missed 2 games due to the knee and Woj noted when the OKC deal went down that they had doubts his knee would hold up enough for him to be a major contributor for the length of the deal. I suspect he'll be a bit of a cocktease, good stretch of games, games missed due to the knee and games in between.
Agreed but to put that in perspective, Walker is coming over to be a major contributor this season instead of being a savior with the burden of carrying the team to success. Given both his and Rose's recent injury history and the need to managed their minute, I bet that Luca Vildoza is given a bigger role in the rotation than most would suspect
Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
really like the Walker move but I wouldn't assume his knee is "fine". He looked absolutely awful vs. the Nets and then missed 2 games due to the knee and Woj noted when the OKC deal went down that they had doubts his knee would hold up enough for him to be a major contributor for the length of the deal. I suspect he'll be a bit of a cocktease, good stretch of games, games missed due to the knee and games in between.
Agreed but to put that in perspective, Walker is coming over to be a major contributor this season instead of being a savior with the burden of carrying the team to success. Given both his and Rose's recent injury history and the need to managed their minute, I bet that Luca Vildoza is given a bigger role in the rotation than most would suspect
They also have IQ. I know some think he can be developed into a PG but I still see him as more of a Lou Williams 2.0.
Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
They also went and beat the top seeded Sixers. They're pretty legit.
He didn't play back-to-back games in Boston, and I read he's already had 3 stem cell treatments on his knee.
Kemba fans, and Kemba himself say he needs time to rest. He did not have an offseason last year between the schedule and playing in the World Cup for team USA.
The only concern I have for kemba is can he give us 55 games. He already showed he can still play.
Walker is coming over to be a major contributor this season instead of being a savior with the burden of carrying the team to success.
that Walker's role as the primary playmaker for team will be a major contributor to the team's success but he isn't the only playmaker on the roster (like he would have been if he joined before last year's season opener) and there is now sufficient playmaking ability from others in the starting lineup to make his absence from the lineup more easily manageable for the Knicks.
12 regular-season games shot 56% from the field, 44% from 3.
I'd like to see him shoot less 3's (while keeping it part of his game) and see Thibs and Co. try to adjust what they do a bit when he's in vs. Randle. I think part of Obi's issues stemmed from the lack of adjustment to the offense. He's not randle, different skillsets. Also would make sense to push the pace more when Obi is in there.
RE: If his knee is arthritic, he will never be fine
He didn't play back-to-back games in Boston, and I read he's already had 3 stem cell treatments on his knee.
Kemba fans, and Kemba himself say he needs time to rest. He did not have an offseason last year between the schedule and playing in the World Cup for team USA.
The only concern I have for kemba is can he give us 55 games. He already showed he can still play.
A big part of the problem for him last year was the rush start to the season and then he rushed back and it just never worked..
Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
Fluke is too strong but I do think they played a bit over their heads. Kevin Huerter generally sucks ass - doubt he plays the way he did in the playoffs for an extended period of time.
we need two PFs, don’t we? This entire roster is built now to keep everyone fresh, and hopefully he makes the most of some increased minutes this year.
Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
I totally agree. And love him or hate him, Trae Young is a star on his way to becoming a superstar.
Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
Fluke is too strong but I do think they played a bit over their heads. Kevin Huerter generally sucks ass - doubt he plays the way he did in the playoffs for an extended period of time.
Check their record/numbers once McMillen took over. Assuming Young is healthy they will be very good.
Nets but susceptibility to injury and long term outlook isn't fantastic. Still, its smart gamble to go for it and impressive to execute their roster plan as they have.
Bucks for obvious reasons.
Philly although this is somewhat in flux with Embiid always being an injury risk and also very dependent on the Simmons trade haul.
Atlanta is young, talented and deep. Plus Nate Mac is an outstanding coach. I see no reason to question them being in the top 4.
Miami. Much of this depends on how long Lowry stays in the upper tier, but one would think this is a 50 win team at a minimum.
I would NOT rank Boston, Washington, Indiana or anyone else above NYK.
Anyone who is saying they are not legit is clueless about basketball. They absolutely dominated the Knicks and deserved to win. They played hard, they were coached well, played good defense. I hate Trae young, but he is a game changer. Hawks are fo real and they had so many injury issues throughout the year last year. If they stay healthy to me they are the 4th best team in the east and maybe better than Philly. Even the kid they drafted from USC showed some quality minutes towards the end of the year.
With Collins back I put the Hawks in the top 3 in the east
Kudos to Rose, Thibodeau and their staffs too. There's nothing better in NY sports than meaningful NBA games at MSG.
I agree with everything the people on this thread are saying about the job Rose has done since he took over. I'm sure David Stern is looking down and having a laugh thinking it only took 20 years for the Knicks to become a model of intelligent management.
I'm looking forward to watching both MSG teams this season and since this is a Giants board all three seasons can't get here quickly enough.
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Randle does not need to play 40 min. I'd also like to see times when Obi and Randle can play the 4/5 together. It won't be often but they should find times to do it.
I agree but as of now Obi has three guys ahead of him on the depth chart at center. Obi's gotta come to camp and show he can hang defensinvely or else his role will be limited to Randle's caddy again.
Obi was great defensively the last month plus of the year.
Probably won't happen with Thibs coaching, but with better depth and other guys that can create/score, they should be able to play him less than 38 mpg which could help come playoff time.
He made a remarkable number of contested shots during the season, raising the question: Can he keep doing this?
The answer in the playoffs was: no.
Smart to take the money now.
Here is my opinion on Randle. On one hand its "fool's gold" to think Randle should continue to take on a Lebron-like burden in terms of initiating offense in addition to scoring, rebounding etc. As a secondary facilitator though, he is well equipped with recently developed skills (big jump from years prior). But I love him in an environment where there is a viable lead guard as opposed to Elfrid Payton and with added shooting/playmaking from the wing (replacing Bullock w Fournier).
Obi is a great problem to have, work him in slow take minutes from Randle, and give him rest. He only averaged 11 minutes last year if he can play 15-20 this year you can bring Randle to 35 minutes.
If he develops into a lottery-level talent you can move Randle on his last year or trade Obi before his 2nd deal.
We agree 100%. See my post a few up. Different ways of saying the same thing.
The bench was just good overall, much better than thr starters and obi was 100% part of that and hr absolutely played better, stop settling and started attacking more..
The drink? Don't ask
Quote:
But when you look at the stat every game it tells a lot. The last month or so of the season, Obi was always one of the top Knicks in plus minus. And over that extended period of time I think it does tell a good story. His defense was greatly improved. His rotations were great and he made some awesome defensive plays. I'm not saying he's going to be able to handle one on one matchups against centers but he has a much better understanding mentally of how to play defense and he puts in the work. His growth was great for a rookie. On top of that, we can't just kill a player and say he doesn't do X well without looking at the whole picture. Putting him on the court against specific players is most likely a huge advantage for him offensively. That is why Obi looked so good in the playoffs. When Capela went to the bench nobody could match Obi's athleticism. We need to make teams adapt to us just as much as we adapt to them. Just like Mitch and Noel provide defense and limited offense, you can make an argument that Obi provides offense and just enough defense to warrant giving him those opportunities.
The bench was just good overall, much better than thr starters and obi was 100% part of that and hr absolutely played better, stop settling and started attacking more..
Yes but compared to even the other bench guys his plus minus was always one of the best. Again, not the end all be all but I think it speaks to how well he was playing overall on both ends of the floor when he was on the court.
I agree. It feels like Zion has his eyes on the NYK too.
I have to feel Obi is trade bait and I have heard he would not mind being traded to a place he can get more time.
The summer league will be interesting as they try build up his value. I truly believe he is a chip for Myles Turner. He would be a good athletic 4 to play with Sabonis.
I have to feel Obi is trade bait and I have heard he would not mind being traded to a place he can get more time.
The summer league will be interesting as they try build up his value. I truly believe he is a chip for Myles Turner. He would be a good athletic 4 to play with Sabonis.
Seems like Obi would have been traded at/during the draft and/or before they filled out their roster. Sure, if Myles Turner is somehow traded but there is no other backup 4 on the roster nor did it appear they tried adding one via draft or FA. Noel/Mitch can't play the 4.
It was a tale of two seasons for Kemba which makes sense in context. Second half post-all star break he was much better and his numbers looked just as they did in the previous year when he was an all-star. Because of the stem cell injection just prior to the season and trying to recover on the fly, second half Kemba is the one we should get assuming he stays healthy.
Good for him. He earned it.
I actually think both guys would help them. He has his issues but I think Oubre has untapped upside.
Agreed but to put that in perspective, Walker is coming over to be a major contributor this season instead of being a savior with the burden of carrying the team to success. Given both his and Rose's recent injury history and the need to managed their minute, I bet that Luca Vildoza is given a bigger role in the rotation than most would suspect
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"considering" Milsap and Oubre? Dame must be over the moon with excitement.
I actually think both guys would help them. He has his issues but I think Oubre has untapped upside.
He's asked for help and this is the best they can offer? Milsap (while still a solid player) is turning 37 in Feb
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In comment 15323253 DanMetroMan said:
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"considering" Milsap and Oubre? Dame must be over the moon with excitement.
I actually think both guys would help them. He has his issues but I think Oubre has untapped upside.
He's asked for help and this is the best they can offer? Milsap (while still a solid player) is turning 37 in Feb
Yeah totally. Their only path is to trade CJ for someone else and hope for the best.
Totally, he just tried to do everything himself. Clearly was off his game.
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really like the Walker move but I wouldn't assume his knee is "fine". He looked absolutely awful vs. the Nets and then missed 2 games due to the knee and Woj noted when the OKC deal went down that they had doubts his knee would hold up enough for him to be a major contributor for the length of the deal. I suspect he'll be a bit of a cocktease, good stretch of games, games missed due to the knee and games in between.
Agreed but to put that in perspective, Walker is coming over to be a major contributor this season instead of being a savior with the burden of carrying the team to success. Given both his and Rose's recent injury history and the need to managed their minute, I bet that Luca Vildoza is given a bigger role in the rotation than most would suspect
They also have IQ. I know some think he can be developed into a PG but I still see him as more of a Lou Williams 2.0.
They also went and beat the top seeded Sixers. They're pretty legit.
Kemba fans, and Kemba himself say he needs time to rest. He did not have an offseason last year between the schedule and playing in the World Cup for team USA.
The only concern I have for kemba is can he give us 55 games. He already showed he can still play.
that Walker's role as the primary playmaker for team will be a major contributor to the team's success but he isn't the only playmaker on the roster (like he would have been if he joined before last year's season opener) and there is now sufficient playmaking ability from others in the starting lineup to make his absence from the lineup more easily manageable for the Knicks.
I'd like to see him shoot less 3's (while keeping it part of his game) and see Thibs and Co. try to adjust what they do a bit when he's in vs. Randle. I think part of Obi's issues stemmed from the lack of adjustment to the offense. He's not randle, different skillsets. Also would make sense to push the pace more when Obi is in there.
Kemba fans, and Kemba himself say he needs time to rest. He did not have an offseason last year between the schedule and playing in the World Cup for team USA.
The only concern I have for kemba is can he give us 55 games. He already showed he can still play.
A big part of the problem for him last year was the rush start to the season and then he rushed back and it just never worked..
Fluke is too strong but I do think they played a bit over their heads. Kevin Huerter generally sucks ass - doubt he plays the way he did in the playoffs for an extended period of time.
I totally agree. And love him or hate him, Trae Young is a star on his way to becoming a superstar.
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Hawks so totally curb-stomped the Knicks (and looked so good in the playoffs in general). I refuse to put the Knicks ahead of them. I do not see them as a fluke at all.
Fluke is too strong but I do think they played a bit over their heads. Kevin Huerter generally sucks ass - doubt he plays the way he did in the playoffs for an extended period of time.
Check their record/numbers once McMillen took over. Assuming Young is healthy they will be very good.
Nets but susceptibility to injury and long term outlook isn't fantastic. Still, its smart gamble to go for it and impressive to execute their roster plan as they have.
Bucks for obvious reasons.
Philly although this is somewhat in flux with Embiid always being an injury risk and also very dependent on the Simmons trade haul.
Atlanta is young, talented and deep. Plus Nate Mac is an outstanding coach. I see no reason to question them being in the top 4.
Miami. Much of this depends on how long Lowry stays in the upper tier, but one would think this is a 50 win team at a minimum.
I would NOT rank Boston, Washington, Indiana or anyone else above NYK.
Is it bad that i was dissapointed he was going to play?
Trae Young is going to get even better
Cam Reddish/D'Andre Hunter are up and coming wing players that did not play that much in the playoffs
The USC center that was a rookie last year is talented
Gallo/Bojan/Huerter can really open up the floor
Cooper/Johnson are steals
The Hawks are a problem for the long term in the East.
I dont know if Huerter is as good as he was in thr Playoffs, he was lights out 3 poiny shooter in the playoffs..
I really like Hunter if he can stay healthy, he gave Barrett fits in that first round series..