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| @TomRock_Newsday Giants are going to run out of gold watches. Another vet has retired. This time it’s OL Zach Fulton, who informed the team of his decision last night. Fulton joins Todd Davis, Joe Looney and Kelvin Benjamin as guys who have hung ‘em up so far this training camp. |
I am sure they are working on that
Judge needs to turn the table and convince David DeCastro to come out of retirement!
Interesting notion.
I think the Raiders have had 3 players retire and two executives quit since camp opened.
Judge needs to turn the table and convince David DeCastro to come out of retirement!
I’d be happy with Austin Reiter. Evan Boehm could provide quality depth.
😂😂
I too have never seen anything like this
Is training camp even that demanding anymore? I could see this 10-15 years ago, but not now.
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This one hurts. I thought he was a sneaky good signing. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Judge needs to turn the table and convince David DeCastro to come out of retirement!
I’d be happy with Austin Reiter. Evan Boehm could provide quality depth.
I meant Joe Dahl, not Evan Boehm
That’s a good observation. I’m sure some of us read that Jimmy Graham article yesterday. Even the vaccinated guys are being forced to have daily testing now, etc. He seemed pretty pissed off about it. It’s the only real variable this year compared to let’s say 4-5 years ago in terms of the offseason. The Raiders have had 3-4 retirements as well.
Interesting. Good theory
Raiders had 3.
There will be a lot of VET options out there for us as some teams will need/ want to shed salary for younger players.
The retired LB from Denver talked about how he was involved with Real Estate and wanted to focus on that.
Don't forget the cap was reduced so some of these guys are being paid less than normal.
I'm with you on this one.
Coming off a 4y/28m deal and now down to just over one mill.
Either you'd be on the bench, which isn't that much fun, or, if you did win a starting spot, putting your body on the line for relative peanuts.
Live look at Giants training camp....
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was not happy with his performance the other day and after making Gates and Hernandez run laps as punishment for Fulton’s play they beat his ass with a pillowcase full of bars of soap. That may have been the tipping point in his retirement decision.
Live look at Giants training camp....
Ha ha, according to Pat Leonard, Judge was throwing expletives at Fulton and referring to him as “Pyle” throughout camp.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
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was not happy with his performance the other day and after making Gates and Hernandez run laps as punishment for Fulton’s play they beat his ass with a pillowcase full of bars of soap. That may have been the tipping point in his retirement decision.
Live look at Giants training camp....
haha!
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Any other teams getting the retirement issue?
I think the Raiders have had 3 players retire and two executives quit since camp opened.
That's tough. Executives shouldn't have to run gassers.
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Any other teams getting the retirement issue?
I think the Raiders have had 3 players retire and two executives quit since camp opened.
That's true. The Panthers also have had two players retire
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Ha ha, no... Saleh's comments mean nothing. Mister I haven't coached a game yet has no bearing on what goes on here. I couldn't care less what KB thinks after his fat ass showed up fatter and he didn't like the punishment. WAAAAAAA.....
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
I literally had the same discussion with a buddy yesterday. I do think this may be related to the COVID protocols as cited by a poster earlier, but I am concerned the tough rhetoric from Judge could end up falling on deaf ears at some point like we saw with Coughlin before they started that players council within the team and they got Coughlin to lighten up a bit.
It’s a fine line in pro sports because you can’t really scold a bunch of grown men like they are college kids on a regular basis. I mean many of these players are already multi millionaires and make more than the guy screaming at them.
If we start to see the team giving up in key moments of games you will have your answer on how his style is working. We also don’t see 100% of his actions. Coughlin had a lot of nit picky things behind the scenes like the getting to meetings 5 minutes early stuff that pissed off players. I haven’t heard anything like that about Judge up to this point. It’s all been on the field.
Players have been effusive about Judge and Graham throughout the past year and change.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
I’m gonna need to evidence that Judge is “universally hated”. There are tons of statements from the players saying the exact opposite, so please post some of these elusive universally hated articles. I look forward to seeing them…
Yup, there is no positive. Anyone who has ever been part of an organization where people start to quit will tell you that. It sucks for morale.
That said, I don't think this has anything to do with Judge.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Where is the evidence that says that Judge is universally hated?
Why are we comparing Judge to guys like Patricia? Players did not like him. When did you hear this about Judge? Name one. One.
Worst O-line depth 9 years running.
A veteran who is about to enter the grind of a season may hang it up for a variety of reasons. It doesn't have to be a negative reflection on anyone (nor a positive one, either).
I'd prefer it is guys who are unsure if they want to compete step aside, but I don't look at it as either a plus or a minus.
Another item to address. Versatility. Fulton maybe was only a one side guy. Wiggins has had experience all over including Tackle. People just assumed Fulton was ahead.
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when is it time to ask hard questions about Judge and his style? Between the retirements, Robert Saleh's answer to the question about running laps, Benjamin's comments on his way out, Kenny Wiggins comments about the punishment and being used to it since he played for Matt Patricia (who was notoriously hated by the players and subsequently fired)...there's a lot a smoke here.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
I literally had the same discussion with a buddy yesterday. I do think this may be related to the COVID protocols as cited by a poster earlier, but I am concerned the tough rhetoric from Judge could end up falling on deaf ears at some point like we saw with Coughlin before they started that players council within the team and they got Coughlin to lighten up a bit.
It’s a fine line in pro sports because you can’t really scold a bunch of grown men like they are college kids on a regular basis. I mean many of these players are already multi millionaires and make more than the guy screaming at them.
If we start to see the team giving up in key moments of games you will have your answer on how his style is working. We also don’t see 100% of his actions. Coughlin had a lot of nit picky things behind the scenes like the getting to meetings 5 minutes early stuff that pissed off players. I haven’t heard anything like that about Judge up to this point. It’s all been on the field.
Last year, we saw the exact opposite of them giving up in key moments. The team was lauded for it's work ethic, conditioning, spirit.
Also, there was an article (can't recall whose it was) on the fight and ensuing laps, etc which also said that Judge has gone out of his way to incorporate players' opinions on any number of things in camp and during the season.
There is no smoke, just vets who are either unprepared or unmotivated to do it one more time.
That possibly has as much to do with his retirement than anything else. Especially considering his stage of the career, salary cut ,etc.
Sterling Shepard even said they did harder camps at OU.
We should take this as an incredibly good sign, that people who don't want to grind are tapping out.
@tashanreed
Three #Raiders have retired in the past week: RB Theo Riddick, LB James Onwualu and OT Sam Young.
The media will do what they want. No players have said it's too tough for them aside for the guys who now since retired. He's making these guys buy in. Getting upset over 53rds of the roster is kind of silly.
Wiggins being first off the bench is telling for someone like Fulton.
@tashanreed
Three #Raiders have retired in the past week: RB Theo Riddick, LB James Onwualu and OT Sam Young.
Young and Riddick old guys as well.
Like the guy above you. Just, I don't get it.
👍
Yeah, this is a good point. We don't hear any of that anonymous sources stuff.
All 3 are slated to start in 2021.
This is not exactly ignoring the OL.
But at least he said the right things prior to sprinting down to Roy Rogers.
That works if you’re a HOFer like Michael Strahan. Not a JAG who gave up 11 sacks last year
But at least he said the right things prior to sprinting down to Roy Rogers.
The way he he left is simply not what would happen if you're a player who felt like the camp was bullshit being run by a know-nothing coach.
"Looney's agent Andy Ross told NFL Network's Mike Garafolo that once the O-lineman realized his body couldn't continue to take the pounding, it was time to ride into the sunset.
"Joe always felt when his body didn't respond the way he needed it to, it would be time to step away," Ross told Garafolo. "He has too much respect for the Giants and (offensive coordinator Jason) Garrett to not do that.""
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is this a way for vets to get out of training camp while not taking up a roster spot? Only to unretire when the season starts?
That works if you’re a HOFer like Michael Strahan. Not a JAG who gave up 11 sacks last year
Strahan didn't retire and come back he was allowed to sit out. Technically they can do this and it doesn't break any rules. Just a thought....
"Looney's agent Andy Ross told NFL Network's Mike Garafolo that once the O-lineman realized his body couldn't continue to take the pounding, it was time to ride into the sunset.
"Joe always felt when his body didn't respond the way he needed it to, it would be time to step away," Ross told Garafolo. "He has too much respect for the Giants and (offensive coordinator Jason) Garrett to not do that.""
"He has too much respect..." is a good way to start off a friendly parting. You guys should well trained in this type of speech.
That's pure speculation. One could easily guess this is COVID/vaccine related. But that would be speculation too.
You don't want players on the team who are not fully committed to doing what it takes to win
There are players who are in it for a pay check and would like to skate by.
This will not happen with Joe Judge's Giants
The team is better off knowing now then in season
This gives the Giants an opportunity to find a replacement
If you're worried about how the players feel about Judge I'd recommend you read the comments from Shepard and Ryan. Two of the most veteran and respected players on the team and locker room leaders.
To quote Shepard "If you don't like it, then you're welcome to leave. But that's the way that we do things around here and everybody is standing by that, and I'm all for it". Coming from a guy who has played for McAdoo & Shurmer before Judge and only for the Giants.
To quote Ryan "Players are tired of losing games around here. The fanbase is tired. Management gave us an opportunity and gave us a better roster this year, and we're coming out competing". Coming from one of the few guys in the locker room who has a Super Bowl ring.
And this one from Ryan too “It’s football. It’s a physical sport. If you’re not tough or chippy I don’t know if you can play this game. Me, Evan, we’re locker buddies. We’ll be fine. This is a football team. Practice gets physical and chippy, but everything gets left between the lines". “There’s going to be some chippiness. There’s going to be some griminess. But we’re leaving it within the lines,” Ryan said. “And I’ll take a team like that. I’ll take a team like that every single day.”
I've had a front seat on the Joe Judge bandwagon train since the first day I heard him speak. He's backing up the talk with actions. The Giants had a terrible roster last year and he was a first year coach dealing with very limited team building opportunity before the season began because of COVID. It showed on the field but the team got better as the season went on and there is something building here that I think is going to be great.
I have a feeling in a month or two we're going to have to add a lot more cars to the Joe Judge bandwagon train. Get on now while good seats are still available.
lol
Maybe Fulton saw the writing on the wall and knew he was probably going to be beaten out
@DougKyed
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55m
It's easy to wonder if there's a larger issue at hand after three Giants players (Todd Davis, Joe Looney and Zach Fulton) recently retired during training camp.
"There is absolutely nothing there. The Giants were great," a source close to a retired player said this morning.
Raiders
Link - ( New Window )
These guys a making big money but they know when their bodies can't taking the pounding anymore (or the specter of living with arthritis or brain injury, after multiple concussions); we all need to respect that.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Holy crap, those must be some seriously worn down pearls you're clutching
I kid, I kid.
The real problem with the Looney and Fulton retirements are depth.
There is no smoke, just vets who are either unprepared or unmotivated to do it one more time.
Yep, but not surprised by the reaction of some, it seems to be the MO of quite a few posters.
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when is it time to ask hard questions about Judge and his style? Between the retirements, Robert Saleh's answer to the question about running laps, Benjamin's comments on his way out, Kenny Wiggins comments about the punishment and being used to it since he played for Matt Patricia (who was notoriously hated by the players and subsequently fired)...there's a lot a smoke here.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Holy crap, those must be some seriously worn down pearls you're clutching
Looking at a situation objectively and asking when we should start asking questions is pearl-clutching? Haha, ok
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In comment 15324243 BigBlueFootball44 said:
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when is it time to ask hard questions about Judge and his style? Between the retirements, Robert Saleh's answer to the question about running laps, Benjamin's comments on his way out, Kenny Wiggins comments about the punishment and being used to it since he played for Matt Patricia (who was notoriously hated by the players and subsequently fired)...there's a lot a smoke here.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Holy crap, those must be some seriously worn down pearls you're clutching
Looking at a situation objectively and asking when we should start asking questions is pearl-clutching? Haha, ok
Has anyone signed any of these players that left? Has anyone even worked them out? NO they haven't, so the only point you can make from all of that is they wanted to retire instead of putting their body through the grind of a training camp or in Benjamin's case not adhering to the requirements he was given. And the best part to all of it is that they got weeded out early.
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In comment 15324508 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15324243 BigBlueFootball44 said:
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when is it time to ask hard questions about Judge and his style? Between the retirements, Robert Saleh's answer to the question about running laps, Benjamin's comments on his way out, Kenny Wiggins comments about the punishment and being used to it since he played for Matt Patricia (who was notoriously hated by the players and subsequently fired)...there's a lot a smoke here.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Holy crap, those must be some seriously worn down pearls you're clutching
Looking at a situation objectively and asking when we should start asking questions is pearl-clutching? Haha, ok
Yes indeed it is. It's ridiculous speculation on your part with zero facts other than three vets who were at best depth and an entitled bust of a player retired.
Has anyone signed any of these players that left? Has anyone even worked them out? NO they haven't, so the only point you can make from all of that is they wanted to retire instead of putting their body through the grind of a training camp or in Benjamin's case not adhering to the requirements he was given. And the best part to all of it is that they got weeded out early.
So the proof that there's nothing here is that no one has signed or worked out 4 players who RETIRED?
I presented facts. 1) 4 players retired 2) one had a lot of say on his way out 3) another NFL head coach was asked about these punishments and chose to comment, saying, in essence, that he doesn't do that and treats players like professionals 4) a player on the Giants now likened the experience to playing for Matt Patricia, who was a disaster.
Those things may be indicators of a larger problem, or they may not be. Hence the question posed in a message board designed to ask questions and provoke discussion - when is it time to ask hard questions?
How about after they play some football games?
What's more interesting is that a guy like Jon Gruden isn't getting held to the fire and he's had 3 players retire AND 2 executives. You know why? Because it is happening league-wide. From what I have seen so far, at least three teams have had 3 or more players retire and 5 teams have had two retire.
In a normal year between camp and the first week of the season between 75-100 players will retire. Not sure how that number will differ this year, but right there is your 3 players per team.
Our depth along the O-line is right back where we started: in the pits.
Our depth along the O-line is right back where we started: in the pits.
But outside of Fulton, what changed from a month ago??
Looney just signed with us a nd retired and the other guy who retired wasn't a lineman. Losing a 3rd stringer and a guy signed 8 days ago is a big blow to depth?? Both of them can be replaced.
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Our depth along the O-line is right back where we started: in the pits.
But outside of Fulton, what changed from a month ago??
Looney just signed with us a nd retired and the other guy who retired wasn't a lineman. Losing a 3rd stringer and a guy signed 8 days ago is a big blow to depth?? Both of them can be replaced.
So, are we to conclude that — before these veteran signings— our O-Line depth was really thin, and these signings really didn’t do much to help?
Fulton was playing as the third-string guy. Probably contributed to his decision. Looney was signed last week.
Fulton was playing as the third-string guy. Probably contributed to his decision. Looney was signed last week.
As much as I wish otherwise, it’s hard not to conclude we are facing another season with very thin depth. Not to mention we lost our starting RG from last season and didn’t really add any significant new talent in either free agency nor the Draft.
His idea of football and how it should be played is the closest thing I've seen since the mid 80's glory days that were the best of times for me as a Giants fan. That is not taking anything away from the Coughlin/Eli years which produced 2 Super Bowl wins and probably 3 HOFers when those guys join Strahan.
But we should know better than to assume this means that Wiggins or Heggie are playing at the levels of a non-liability NFL starter.
Fulton was only going to matter if he came in an overachieved so that looks like it was off the table regardless.
I don't know how anyone could be unconcerned about our OL going into this season though. If we have a losing record we are looking at that as the most likely culprit at this point by far
What's more interesting is that a guy like Jon Gruden isn't getting held to the fire and he's had 3 players retire AND 2 executives. You know why? Because it is happening league-wide. From what I have seen so far, at least three teams have had 3 or more players retire and 5 teams have had two retire.
In a normal year between camp and the first week of the season between 75-100 players will retire. Not sure how that number will differ this year, but right there is your 3 players per team.
There's retiring after you've been released, and there's retiring while you still have a potential shot to make the team.
I haven't seen any good evidence that this relates at all to Judge, but what we're seeing here is pretty atypical.
lol
There doesn’t need to be a conspiratorial connection with Judge, or Covid, or pro personnel staff, to make this a suboptimal outcome.
The Giants are counting on Lemieux, who had some real rough patches last year, Peart, who logged 150 snaps, and Hernandez who hasn’t played very good football since 2019.
The Giants are an injury away from Kenny Wiggins as a starter.
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In comment 15324546 BigBlueFootball44 said:
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In comment 15324508 montanagiant said:
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In comment 15324243 BigBlueFootball44 said:
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when is it time to ask hard questions about Judge and his style? Between the retirements, Robert Saleh's answer to the question about running laps, Benjamin's comments on his way out, Kenny Wiggins comments about the punishment and being used to it since he played for Matt Patricia (who was notoriously hated by the players and subsequently fired)...there's a lot a smoke here.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
Holy crap, those must be some seriously worn down pearls you're clutching
Looking at a situation objectively and asking when we should start asking questions is pearl-clutching? Haha, ok
Yes indeed it is. It's ridiculous speculation on your part with zero facts other than three vets who were at best depth and an entitled bust of a player retired.
Has anyone signed any of these players that left? Has anyone even worked them out? NO they haven't, so the only point you can make from all of that is they wanted to retire instead of putting their body through the grind of a training camp or in Benjamin's case not adhering to the requirements he was given. And the best part to all of it is that they got weeded out early.
So the proof that there's nothing here is that no one has signed or worked out 4 players who RETIRED?
I presented facts. 1) 4 players retired 2) one had a lot of say on his way out 3) another NFL head coach was asked about these punishments and chose to comment, saying, in essence, that he doesn't do that and treats players like professionals 4) a player on the Giants now likened the experience to playing for Matt Patricia, who was a disaster.
Those things may be indicators of a larger problem, or they may not be. Hence the question posed in a message board designed to ask questions and provoke discussion - when is it time to ask hard questions?
Why is this hard to understand? If the players left because of Judge (which by the way three of them praised him, the one who didn't was never going to make this team when he showed up 17 pounds overweight and an attitude) that wouldn't it make sense that instead of retiring they sign with another team? If the reason is that Judge is too tough or he used bad language then would it not make sense that they would still want to play for a different team and not leave football for good?
You are forgetting the part about our QB being one of the most turnover prone QBs in league history :)
The comments against the conditioning drills, whether they are team participation of "punitive", like the unnamed NFL executive, are they saying we DO NOT want a team with superior conditioning? That the players will develop that on their own?
I would say, conditioning is CRITICAL and whether it is scheduled drills in practice or being made to jog a couple of laps or knock out a few pushups from your heavily muscled and toned body, SO WHAT? You want a team in the 4th quarter energetically bullying around the other team who is winded and leaning over hands on knees.
Shep said there wasn't much emphasis on conditioning in the last two coaching go arounds... you mean when OUR guys were the winded gasping ones?
Judge is trying to improve everything. If someone quits because training camp is too hard (not saying Fulton did that) then that actually improves the team and is a good thing.
Now we just need to shore up this depth issue which I am kind of worried about.
The comments against the conditioning drills, whether they are team participation of "punitive", like the unnamed NFL executive, are they saying we DO NOT want a team with superior conditioning? That the players will develop that on their own?
Zooming in on conditioning is a huge oversimplification. Culture is an important thing and while Judge looks to have some potential creating a good culture DG was wildly at it. And the Giants haven't been good at it for a while.
Too much is made about team leaders supporting the coach, that's a big nothing burger RE: Judge it says more about them as leaders themselves TBH. It's way more of a, if they don't say this it's a problem kind of thing. And I do like Ryan and Shep in that capacity. It's a nothing burger for now before we actually know if this culture could be turned into a winning program. And even great coaches have failed failed without the right larger structure around them so the idea that Judge can do everything and be everything is not the best on on it's face.
Exactly. The Giants have frail depth at the interior line positions.
The Giants are an injury away from Kenny Wiggins as a starter.
Every team in the league is a snap away from "Kenny Wiggens". ...offensive lines suck!!! Look at what the Chiefs showed up with at the Superbowl. Baseball...Bullpen. Football...O-line. If they can recognize and win or lose in actual assignment, it will be a huge leap ahead. Offensive lines need, mostly, to eliminate lapses.
Do other offenses seem completely hamstrung by this year after year? A few but I see the Chiefs mentioned a lot as a team with a bad Oline and it's like fine, you can think that. But their offense as a whole looks real good.
I don't care if the team is missing blocks left and right if we are putting points up.
This "olines are bad" thing is a complete non-sequester to the relevance of this discussion. And is just another excuse for the excuse pile
There are edge case entirely novel organizational structures in the world but percentage wise...not many.
I think there are different kinds of business models, different stages of competition in every industry and different kinds of work that predominate in some organizations. Some fit X and some fit Y ( or their flavor of the month repositioned names).
Generally, if creativity is a differentiator for a department or whole organization, you will find similar patterns and practices all around the world. Where there are very few differentiators between competitors then structures that pull or push execution are found.
For example, GAAP Accounting and similar enterprise systems leaves us finding that often effective accounting department management practices are similar.
From my observations, the frequency of similar approaches per differentiated functions or growth stages or industries has held steady since the installation of client server IT and if relevant, internet based functions or businesses.
In my observation, A very good leader can get results using variations from either theoretical point of view regardless of the logical and common practices found elsewhere in their industry.
The comments against the conditioning drills, whether they are team participation of "punitive", like the unnamed NFL executive, are they saying we DO NOT want a team with superior conditioning? That the players will develop that on their own?
I would say, conditioning is CRITICAL and whether it is scheduled drills in practice or being made to jog a couple of laps or knock out a few pushups from your heavily muscled and toned body, SO WHAT? You want a team in the 4th quarter energetically bullying around the other team who is winded and leaning over hands on knees.
Shep said there wasn't much emphasis on conditioning in the last two coaching go arounds... you mean when OUR guys were the winded gasping ones?
Judge is trying to improve everything. If someone quits because training camp is too hard (not saying Fulton did that) then that actually improves the team and is a good thing.
Now we just need to shore up this depth issue which I am kind of worried about.
Good post D HOS
There are edge case entirely novel organizational structures in the world but percentage wise...not many.
I think there are different kinds of business models, different stages of competition in every industry and different kinds of work that predominate in some organizations. Some fit X and some fit Y ( or their flavor of the month repositioned names).
Generally, if creativity is a differentiator for a department or whole organization, you will find similar patterns and practices all around the world. Where there are very few differentiators between competitors then structures that pull or push execution are found.
For example, GAAP Accounting and similar enterprise systems leaves us finding that often effective accounting department management practices are similar.
From my observations, the frequency of similar approaches per differentiated functions or growth stages or industries has held steady since the installation of client server IT and if relevant, internet based functions or businesses.
In my observation, A very good leader can get results using variations from either theoretical point of view regardless of the logical and common practices found elsewhere in their industry.
Well said, someone is drinking too much of the tech koolaid, which has turned into a massive circlejerk. Pretty nauseating when you are a part of it tbh. Same shit wrapped in a different package.
The Giants were in the market for interior line depth midway and in the late stages of free agency. The players they sought out don’t want to play any longer.
Are these tragedies? Of course not. Does it mean the next group available in the market grade lower? Likely.
I don’t think the Zach Fultons of the world are the types of players who make up playoff contenders. The shelf below the Zach Fultons. Woof.
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Which is that we have a starting OL with no track record and rapidly evaporating veteran presence behind it.
Exactly. The Giants have frail depth at the interior line positions.
When he was signed a whole lot of people were wringing their hands because he was the worst OL in the league. Now, he retires and people are wringing their hands. There isn't a guy on the roster now that can't be better than worst in the league?
This has nothing to do with Judge.
Go back to watching the Bachelorette
When he was signed a whole lot of people were wringing their hands because he was the worst OL in the league. Now, he retires and people are wringing their hands. There isn't a guy on the roster now that can't be better than worst in the league?
He was very bad — that was obvious to anyone who had watched a Texans game. Are there worse players barely hanging on in the league? Of course.
The Giants went to the open market and signed the best guys who met their budget and had mutual interest. They signed two guys, and they both retired.
What are the chances the next guy they go sign is graded higher?
Wiggins was already beating out Fulton.
Where losing Fulton will hurt is if Wiggins gets hurt.
These are all symptoms of the same problem — the Giants primary backup lineman are a quite bad 33 year old journeyman in Wiggins and a 33 year old Solder who was also awful his last time out.
As lackluster as Fulton and Looney have been, many of us feel they were better last year than Wiggins.
It’s a bad development these players didn’t have enough left in the tank, because they recently showcased moderately more talent.
Having said that, you can't use the fact that they are not signing elsewhere as evidence that they wouldn't if given the opportunity. They aren't free agents, they were under contract and unless I'm very mistaken retirement doesn't make them free agents.
This is a big season for Jones, a big season for Barkley, and this season probably makes or breaks Gettleman’s job as GM. On paper there’s no reason the Giants shouldn’t be in the mix for the division title.
If that leap of faith doesn’t work out at guard, the next guy up is Kenny Wiggins, a guy who logged literally 1 snap last year. Yikes. I wish they had a better backup plan. I hope they sign someone better.
Looney and Fulton didn’t take the call, fly to Jersey, work out, and sign a contract expecting to tap out. They both seemingly got on the field and realized they were out of gas. That’s a disappointment.
No question the Giants were a better team last year, but coaches being universally hated is not a recipe for success. Coughlin wasn't winning here until he softened up a bit and the team won the Super bowl THAT YEAR.
The comparison you are making is lunacy. Before Coughlin came some of those players were used to winning in prior years.
This is completely different.