You had to know, deep down, both Judge and Belichick had shit-eating grins, because it was hot. Adversity hot. And no breeze. Just a pounding sun with ultra high humidity and no where to hide. The only wind was created by Robert Kraft's helicopter gracing everyone's presence midway through.
*The Giants again were the first team on the field and well underway by the time the Pats were. The OLBs were setting the edge. The ILBs were practicing Tampa 2 deep drops. Blake Martinez is your Grade A MLB and really stood out - his drops are effortless. His ability to make these deep drops and play all 3 downs is the centerpiece to this D and what it can do.
*The DBs were drilling combo coverage. At the snap they'd play man coverage before passing the WR off to zone. In the joint drills with the Pats, it was 2 bunched WRs vs. 2 DBs. They are really focusing on the pick mesh point, and how to defend/exploit. This game within the game has been carrying the Pats to easy wins for years.
*Ray Johnson III was busting his tail during drills. This kid wants it.
*In the 11 on 11's, they continued to rotate. I saw RB Gary Brightwell, WR C.J. Board and WR Dante Pettis, CB Sam Beal and CB Rodarius Williams work extensively with the starters. Trent Harris continues to be a primary reserve. Solder again took reps at starting LT.
*I was happy to see the Giants D make things more difficult on Mac Jones, who looked like he had a pretty tough go of it. Logan Ryan picked him off to start a drive and he was erratic after that. Graham was throwing some heat and using a 4 Safety Package with Love and Peppers up and McKinney and Ryan deep that created problems.
Cam Newton opened things up with a nice drive for a TD - but James Bradberry also dropped an INT on the drive, jumping a slant.
*The Giants O just looks plain ordinary. And I'm not blaming Jones or the OL. From a schematic standpoint, it looks like they relentlessly attack the short areas of the field. It's dink and dunk city. I'm not sure I saw more than 1 or 2 deep shots in 2 days. How many points can you reasonably expect to score with this approach? To be fair, the Pats operate in much the same fashion. They badly need Golladay, Rudolph, Toney & Barkley back on the field because they aren't scaring anyone without.
*Just a peek into what I think makes Judge so special: the teams were separated into 2 groups - a thud KR drill and Giants OL vs. Pats DL on the other end. Obviously the trench battle is more exciting - but there was Joe, standing behind the KR's as they went through a seemingly mundane walkthrough.
I don't think Judge would "Columbo" Garrett (out of respect and JG seems like a good team guy), but he might respectfully ask him to take another role (whether JG would accept that, I have no idea).
People just fucking hate Garrett. Do people have complete amnesia on Kitchens as HC? Dude's offense was abysmal and completely misguided. There were also very strong rumors that when he was the interem OC the real star of the show coming up with gameplans was one of the positional coaches. After watching his offense as HC I certainly buy into that.
I think Garrett and Kitchens are actually a solid duo as they play off each others strengths and weaknesses well. Judging Garrett's offensive scheme (when Judge himself has a massive say) last year is asinine. That's how bad the talent was once Saquon went down and unreliable the young OL was for most the year.
I know it’s just training camp, but why is the offense still so stuck in the dink and dunk? Big plays on offense are the key to success in today’s NFL. But this Jason Garret no motion, three yards and a cloud of dust stuff is going to continue with Big Blue? Ugh… I hope getting the new WRs helps. On the matter of getting Barkley back, I see little reason for optimism that his return is going to fix the offense b/c it seemed pretty broken even when he was 100% healthy. And that’s not even factoring in the really serious knee injury he’s fighting back from.
Anyway, thanks for the camp reports. Along with Sy’s work this has been a real highlight to BBI during the preseason. Great stuff!
I know it’s just training camp, but why is the offense still so stuck in the dink and dunk? Big plays on offense are the key to success in today’s NFL. But this Jason Garret no motion, three yards and a cloud of dust stuff is going to continue with Big Blue? Ugh… I hope getting the new WRs helps. On the matter of getting Barkley back, I see little reason for optimism that his return is going to fix the offense b/c it seemed pretty broken even when he was 100% healthy. And that’s not even factoring in the really serious knee injury he’s fighting back from.
Anyway, thanks for the camp reports. Along with Sy’s work this has been a real highlight to BBI during the preseason. Great stuff!
Do you know who was on the field today and who wasn't? Therein lies your answer.
"Defensive tackle Bill Murray beat Giants offensive lineman Ted Larsen. Murray has had a special preseason — and he continues to build upon that. For the most part, however, the Giants offensive line took care of the Patriots’ defensive line in 2-on-2s."
"During the ugliest drive of the day from Jones (which, as mentioned, somehow ended with eight points), safety Xavier McKinney read Jones perfectly on the QB’s first snap of 11s. McKinney nearly picked off Jones on a target to Kendrick Bourne. On the next play, Logan Ryan picked off Mac Jones on a throw to Jonnu Smith"
PatriotsWire practice report - ( New Window )
He loaned them to Judge
Good stuff. Enjoy those cold beers tonight....you earned them.
Do you know who was on the field today and who wasn't? Therein lies your answer.
I think it’s in his post that KT and Kenny G and Barks aren’t on the field. But, Slayton and Shep and EE were out there right? There’s guys on the offense that can get down field. But, regardless, I just don’t buy this notion that once those star guys are on the field together Jason Garrett’s offense is going to morph into Big Red’s high flying Chefs or Tawmy Ugg’s swashbuckling Buccaneers. But I know it’s still just camp and no one wants me to be proven wrong more than I do.
The TEs were Smith, Stewart-Griffin, and Hausmann.
Right now, this offense is personnel wise the same as last year. Darius Slayton the only deep threat.
You guys act like Garrett doesn't know how to go vertical. His receivers in Dallas killed us and other teams all of the time with deep passing game. Same with the tight ends.
The TEs were Smith, Stewart-Griffin, and Hausmann.
Right now, this offense is personnel wise the same as last year. Darius Slayton the only deep threat.
You guys act like Garrett doesn't know how to go vertical. His receivers in Dallas killed us and other teams all of the time with deep passing game. Same with the tight ends.
I believe I heard Garrett has had two top twenty WRs in YPC mostly year over year, but that doesn't fit into the narrative people want to make. I don't know how you do that unless you are getting guys down the field. The big thing with him is he likes to do it with air yards and not YPC, and the offense reflects that. Lots of routes are set up to get his guys open down the field.
I'd definitely like to see more motion in the offense this year with a more experienced offensive line, but bitching about Garrett is asinine when he's proven to be a good OC when given the ingredients. There's little thigns he does well as a playcaller I like too, like running the naked backside QB boot and WR reverses. The problem is we had to go to the well too much there last year because the talent was so bad.
Is JG some offensive genius? No, but neither is fucking Freddie Kitchens. Dude's scheme and gameplan with the Browns was atrocious as HC. I do think they have good strenghts and weaknesses that will hopefully see play off eachother this year.
Don't be surprised the offense will look like ass when there's a bunch of ass out on the field.
The team making the playoffs really hedging on the health of those skill players and at the moment Toney is the biggest question mark if he'll be on the field Week 1, maybe Golladay but it seems like they're just being extra cautious with him.
Never mind how short handed last year’s offense was. Bad drive in august practice? Scream bloody murder about Garrett. Completely rational!
Also find it odd that we only seem to notice the bad offensive practices while the good moments go largely ignored around here.
In the joint drills with the Pats, it was 2 bunched WRs vs. 2 DBs. They are really focusing on the pick mesh point, and how to defend/exploit. This game within the game has been carrying the Pats to easy wins for years.
I believe our inability to run them well has been one of the sources of our weakness in the red zone. And perhaps our offense will learn from our defense how to make it difficult for the defense to defend a legal pick.
JFC - you actually nailed something. Well done!
In the joint drills with the Pats, it was 2 bunched WRs vs. 2 DBs. They are really focusing on the pick mesh point, and how to defend/exploit. This game within the game has been carrying the Pats to easy wins for years.
I believe our inability to run them well has been one of the sources of our weakness in the red zone. And perhaps our offense will learn from our defense how to make it difficult for the defense to defend a legal pick.
It seemed like every pick play the Giants ran last year was flagged for offensive interference. It would be nice to see that get ironed out this year.
And to be clear, my criticism of Garrett isn’t based on one practice report. I’m looking at his work over the course of last year with the Giants.
I wonder sometimes, how do guys manage the performance of your teams at work? Or your investments?
“Hey Jenny, it’s your manager. Yeah, your team didn’t get the big project launched on time. Cool though, you had a decent run at your last job. Couple more A players on your team and I know you’ll kill the next project.”
Or, “”Hey Sally, this is Franky over in Hoboken. I see my returns are down for the past year. That’s cool though, you’re a terrific financial advisor when you have high performing stocks”.
He needs a running game to create better down and distance. When that happens good things will follow imo. You create vertical opportunities in 2nd and 4/5 not 2nd and 10/11.
Never mind how short handed last year’s offense was. Bad drive in august practice? Scream bloody murder about Garrett. Completely rational!
Dum- for once we agree. I find the s**t thrown at Garrett on BBI completely unconvincing. I think it’s more likely our offensive talent is even worse than we think.
In practice though? Do they run different plays in practice with the 2nd stringers? See I don’t think and that’s why it’s frustrating to hear that the practice offense is still dink and dunk. But, maybe they’re saving the motion and down field stuff for the week before Denver. Entirely possible and certainly what I’m hoping for.
If we were going to be a team that wings it 40 times a game, yeah I'd be worried. People need to relax.
and we all remember the reason he got fired right? That those teams always under achieved? Best OL's in football. Monster rushing numbers with Murray/Zeke. Romo and Dak throwing to Witten, Dez, Cooper, etc.
I actually thought Garrett was pretty creative in specific play calls last year. And I'm not saying he's incompetent or anything. I just think he has a specific scheme that didn't fit our personnel at all. He completely misused the 1 weapon the offense had (Engram). There was improvement over the course of the season but Jones never looked as comfortable in Garrett's offense as he did from day 1 in Pat Shurmur's. There was a downside in changing systems again so just have to hope for the best - but imo Garrett is a legitimate concern.
"Pedestrian" is a $5 word for "like shit", it's as simple as that
However, there were plenty of articles that were posted right here on BBI from people that know a lot about football, that have access to the All 22 film that raised huge concerns about Garrett’s offense. Duggan also had a couple in the Athletic. I’m not bothering to post any of these articles again because if you ignored them the first, second and third time they were posted it’s because you either didn’t WANT to know why the offense may have struggled or you just don’t believe it because Garrett ran the offense in Dallas (until 2012, when he was relieved of his duties but you still want to give him credit for the offense there 8 years later).
Either way, there was a talent issue for sure last season. There was also a major schematic issue. Plenty has been written about it. Look it up. As I said, I won’t post the same articles again since they simply fall on deaf ears. People are going to believe what they want. The talent needs to be better. And so does Garrett.
Also find it odd that we only seem to notice the bad offensive practices while the good moments go largely ignored around here.
About that 2010 season:
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Listen To Ex-Cowboys Jason Hatcher Tells Specific Story On How Jason Garrett Intentionally Sabotaged Wade Phillips To Steal His Job & How Romo Walked Around Thinking He Was Brett Favre (Video)
ByKevin Gray Jr
PublishedMarch 13, 2019
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It’s no secret that Tony Romo and Jason Garrett are Cowboys lifers.
Despite the lack of consistent success Jason Garrett has had as Dallas Cowboys head coach he is beloved by the organization and Jerry Jones.
Tony Romo, despite only winning two playoff games, is the all-time leading passer in Cowboys history.
More recently, Romo has become the media darling in sports commentary with his clairvoyant color analysis for the NFL on CBS.
Apparently though, Romo and Garrett have at least one detractor and he let loose on both Tuesday.
Clarence Hill of the Fort-Worth Star-Telegram details one former Cowboy who could care less for Tony Romo and Jason Garrett.
Ex-Cowboys DE Jason Hatcher, who played 8 years with the Cowboys and Romo, went on 105.3 The Fan and ripped Romo as a bad leader, who didn’t have the ‘it’ factor, and would have rather played with Dak Prescott if he had the chance.
Saying,
“Romo was feeling like he was a Brett Favre and I’m like ‘dude, you ain’t do nothing. What have you done? You got your own space that you leave … don’t come in the locker room an interact with your teammates, but you call yourself a leader? Nah, partner. It don’t work like that.’
Hatcher then turned his attention to Jason Garrett accusing the then offensive coordinator of the Cowboys of sabotaging then HC Wade Phillips saying,
“Let me tell you something. I’m going to tell you the truth. I saw Jason Garrett sabotage this man.”
And,
“We ran three plays three freaking plays (before Wade was fired). I don’t care what the media say. We was flying around. We was out of pads in week 7 (in 2009). We was beating people’s heads in. Now we go into camp cupcake (in 2010) and do what Wade don’t want to do. We get in pads, we beat each other down. We tired, we not fresh. And then you go and call three or four plays (Garrett) till this man gets fired.”
[/quote]
Sound familiar?
[quote]
Link - ( New Window )
However, there were plenty of articles that were posted right here on BBI from people that know a lot about football, that have access to the All 22 film that raised huge concerns about Garrett’s offense. Duggan also had a couple in the Athletic. I’m not bothering to post any of these articles again because if you ignored them the first, second and third time they were posted it’s because you either didn’t WANT to know why the offense may have struggled or you just don’t believe it because Garrett ran the offense in Dallas (until 2012, when he was relieved of his duties but you still want to give him credit for the offense there 8 years later).
Either way, there was a talent issue for sure last season. There was also a major schematic issue. Plenty has been written about it. Look it up. As I said, I won’t post the same articles again since they simply fall on deaf ears. People are going to believe what they want. The talent needs to be better. And so does Garrett.
The talent excuse only goes so far. The reason why we love Graham around here is for what he did with a unit that had clear and obvious weaknesses.
Good coaches can make the best out of what they have. There's almost never an excuse to be bottom-3 in the NFL bad at offense when this league has done everything it can do to make scoring easy.
Quote:
I’m not blaming it all on him, talent certainly played a part in what he was calling. I remember Judge being asked about the conservative offense at some point early in the season and his answer was basically that they intended to shorten the game and be in games with the ability to win in the 4th quarter. Was that a talent issue or a philosophy issue? Who knows, we will find out this season.
However, there were plenty of articles that were posted right here on BBI from people that know a lot about football, that have access to the All 22 film that raised huge concerns about Garrett’s offense. Duggan also had a couple in the Athletic. I’m not bothering to post any of these articles again because if you ignored them the first, second and third time they were posted it’s because you either didn’t WANT to know why the offense may have struggled or you just don’t believe it because Garrett ran the offense in Dallas (until 2012, when he was relieved of his duties but you still want to give him credit for the offense there 8 years later).
Either way, there was a talent issue for sure last season. There was also a major schematic issue. Plenty has been written about it. Look it up. As I said, I won’t post the same articles again since they simply fall on deaf ears. People are going to believe what they want. The talent needs to be better. And so does Garrett.
The talent excuse only goes so far. The reason why we love Graham around here is for what he did with a unit that had clear and obvious weaknesses.
Good coaches can make the best out of what they have. There's almost never an excuse to be bottom-3 in the NFL bad at offense when this league has done everything it can do to make scoring easy.
I agree completely.
I don’t like how Peart is sounding. Thomas seems like there’s a chance he may have turned the corner but Peart seems like we’re hoping at this point. I hate how OL remains the question mark for the 12th? consecutive year.
Judge impresses me. But it’s clear that the media has it out for him. It will be very interesting to see if he can handle the media if the Giants start out poorly again. After all these years of bad starts, 0-2 or 1-4 would kill this team and make us a laughingstock. I hope he has the guys ready. The KR stuff is cool, and I like it , but Judge needs to prove himself this year. We have BBIers who have shat on players/coaches for years admiring the guy, and I like him too but it’s time for better results on the field.
Did you at least see him on the sideline moving around? This has to be a very strange injury for them to hide it like this. I don't think it's anything to do with the lower extremities?
So strange and quite frustrating
The TEs were Smith, Stewart-Griffin, and Hausmann.
Right now, this offense is personnel wise the same as last year. Darius Slayton the only deep threat.
You guys act like Garrett doesn't know how to go vertical. His receivers in Dallas killed us and other teams all of the time with deep passing game. Same with the tight ends.
Same as last year. Golladay missed first two games last year with hamstring so who knows how this transpires early in season and what does it mean longer term. Is this a chronic issue?
Toney-enough said on this. Who knows if he will be any factor this year at all.
So the two players they invested the most resources on offense are out and question marks. How worse can this be?
Yes we get Barkley and Rudolph back but all the talking heads are so behind whats going on its ludicrous. All the weapons the Giants have added etc.... Think they would do some homework at some point.
However, there were plenty of articles that were posted right here on BBI from people that know a lot about football, that have access to the All 22 film that raised huge concerns about Garrett’s offense. Duggan also had a couple in the Athletic. I’m not bothering to post any of these articles again because if you ignored them the first, second and third time they were posted it’s because you either didn’t WANT to know why the offense may have struggled or you just don’t believe it because Garrett ran the offense in Dallas (until 2012, when he was relieved of his duties but you still want to give him credit for the offense there 8 years later).
Either way, there was a talent issue for sure last season. There was also a major schematic issue. Plenty has been written about it. Look it up. As I said, I won’t post the same articles again since they simply fall on deaf ears. People are going to believe what they want. The talent needs to be better. And so does Garrett.
completely agree. without going too far down a rabbit hole there was some stat that stood out to me that it took them like half of a season to attempt to throw a ball to Engram over 15 yards downfield (while throwing him multiple weekly short curl routes over the middle of the field like he was Witten). Once they started giving Engram (and Tate) opportunities downfield they delivered and the offense opened up. Thinking the Tampa/Philly/Cincy games right before Jones got hurt. And the "Jones didn't have time" excuse seems weak to me. The deep shot they took to Engram at the beginning of the Cincy game was a quick drop and the ball was out right away. They also had a bunch of good shots vs. Tampa despite the pass rush that Jones just missed on the throws.
also fair or not I think Garrett has to take some of the blame for the Columbo fiasco. He obviously wouldn't have been hired without Garrett's endorsement.
However, there were plenty of articles that were posted right here on BBI from people that know a lot about football, that have access to the All 22 film that raised huge concerns about Garrett’s offense. Duggan also had a couple in the Athletic. I’m not bothering to post any of these articles again because if you ignored them the first, second and third time they were posted it’s because you either didn’t WANT to know why the offense may have struggled or you just don’t believe it because Garrett ran the offense in Dallas (until 2012, when he was relieved of his duties but you still want to give him credit for the offense there 8 years later).
Either way, there was a talent issue for sure last season. There was also a major schematic issue. Plenty has been written about it. Look it up. As I said, I won’t post the same articles again since they simply fall on deaf ears. People are going to believe what they want. The talent needs to be better. And so does Garrett.
The offense under Garrett was the exact same until they brought in Moore. He got relieved of play-calling duties because his face was getting lost in the play sheet (like most of these guys that insist on calling plays) and since he wasn't an elite offensive coordinator like Reid or Shanahan, he had to give it up. In fact, even under Moore the offense was generally the same, they just started using more motion.
You can't open things up deep when you can't pass protect and you don't have running backs that scare people. We barely faced any stacked boxes because defenses knew that the backs aren't doing ANYTHING at the second level.
Occasionally you see an exception when you go up against a DC that's going to do what he's going to do regardless (see Bowles with TB). Unfortunately, the wind was pretty significant in the first half and we couldn't connect and DJ and Slayton couldn't adjust on the couple shots downfield.
They are analyzing the offensive scheme without understanding any of the context. The scheme was what it was because the Giants offense was at a talent deficit, and couldn't even take advantage of the one thing they do well, because the backs fucking sucked.
Taking deep shots comes with more risk than just losing downs, turnovers are more likely (especially if you are forcing it) and it opens up your QB to hits and fumbles (not exactly DJ's strong suit).
If the playcalling doesn't look different this year, hop on Garrett all you want (I certainly will), because we have the backs and WRs now to actually run a more downfield offense. We have massively upgraded the backup RBs for what we want to do. It's why we signed Clement over Gallman and he's our third back at best. Gallman was starting most of lsat year splitting time with Morris who ran like he had lead in his pants.
The one legit beef with Garrett is the motioin thing, but now we have a more experienced line, a QB in his second year in the offense, and Kitchens in his ear I'm hoping we see more in that space.
I don’t like how Peart is sounding. Thomas seems like there’s a chance he may have turned the corner but Peart seems like we’re hoping at this point. I hate how OL remains the question mark for the 12th? consecutive year.
Judge impresses me. But it’s clear that the media has it out for him. It will be very interesting to see if he can handle the media if the Giants start out poorly again. After all these years of bad starts, 0-2 or 1-4 would kill this team and make us a laughingstock. I hope he has the guys ready. The KR stuff is cool, and I like it , but Judge needs to prove himself this year. We have BBIers who have shat on players/coaches for years admiring the guy, and I like him too but it’s time for better results on the field.
I'll admit that the news about Peart makes me nervous. Week 1 (if he starts), he's likely to be going up against Von Miller, since Miller is primarily a strong-side edge rusher.