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Francesa: Judge will outlast Gettleman/Jones

Sean : 8/27/2021 2:09 pm
Francesa was on the most recent Bill Simmons podcast. He talked about how he likes Judge, but more importantly Mara LOVES Judge. He said the Giants are committed to Judge and he is not attached to either Gettleman or Jones. Francesa said that Judge will have a say in who the next QB is if Jones doesn’t pan out.

He also said the Belichick recommendation played a huge role in the hiring.

I don’t doubt that Francesa has sources in the building, just passing it along. Podcast linked below.
Link - ( New Window )
Captain Obvious chiming in.  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/27/2021 2:10 pm : link
.
Hopefully he outlasts Jones after a decade  
j_rud : 8/27/2021 2:11 pm : link
Thats the best case scenario
I don’t disagree  
The_Boss : 8/27/2021 2:12 pm : link
This is totally Judge’s program. It’s pretty evident. He’s not going anywhere. Dave and Daniel are tied to the hip. Both could be in their last year with the organization.
In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/27/2021 2:14 pm : link
the show and likes working with DG. Hard to believe that Mara isn't going to do with whatever Judge wants to roll with considering he LOVES him so much. Francesa has an ax to grind with DG because he shut off his access.
LOL  
ZogZerg : 8/27/2021 2:16 pm : link
In other news...

It's fucking HOT in the northeast.,...
It is possible that Judge is "all hat, no cattle," to borrow a phrase,  
81_Great_Dane : 8/27/2021 2:20 pm : link
but I don't think so. I think he's the real deal, I think his approach will work on the field and off. He seems very smart about his staffing strategy, which I think is an underrated part of team building. He has a clear idea of how he wants to build his roster, he's a good teacher, he has defined roles for every roster spot. He's working great with the front office to build up talent. He seems to have appropriate input on personnel decisions.

I'm very optimistic — which is not my normal state as a Giants/Mets/Knicks fan.
Well, he better outlast Gettleman.  
Mad Mike : 8/27/2021 2:20 pm : link
The franchise would be a continuing disaster if that doesn't happen. And ideally, even if Jones has a good career, it'd be great to have a longer-term coach than that.
RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15342619 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
the show and likes working with DG. Hard to believe that Mara isn't going to do with whatever Judge wants to roll with considering he LOVES him so much. Francesa has an ax to grind with DG because he shut off his access.


That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.

Francesa  
DannyDimes : 8/27/2021 2:26 pm : link
is an all-time clown....
...  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 2:27 pm : link
Quote:
Francesa said that Judge will have a say in who the next QB is if Jones doesn’t pan out.


If Jones doesn't pan out, Judge should have more than a say in the next QB. It should be basically his call...
Francesa succeeded in getting us to talk about Francesa again  
mfsd : 8/27/2021 2:29 pm : link
Glad to see he’s still got it

As for his actual point, nice to know he’s still getting brilliant tidbits from his “football people”
If a HC didn't have a say in who the team's next QB would be  
BlackLight : 8/27/2021 2:30 pm : link
he should resign. Also, it's not exactly insightful to say that Judge is currently got a longer leash than Jones or Gettleman.
RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
Mike in NY : 8/27/2021 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15342630 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15342619 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


the show and likes working with DG. Hard to believe that Mara isn't going to do with whatever Judge wants to roll with considering he LOVES him so much. Francesa has an ax to grind with DG because he shut off his access.



That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.


I don't think it is so much of DG reporting to Judge as DG has no problems being the one thrown under the bus if personnel moves don't pan out and is quite comfortable getting X, Y, and Z if the coach tells him that is what he needs. DG's problem is that he is an awful talent evaluator if he is told pick who you want and we'll make it work.
RE: If a HC didn't have a say in who the team's next QB would be  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 2:31 pm : link
In comment 15342646 BlackLight said:
Quote:
he should resign. Also, it's not exactly insightful to say that Judge is currently got a longer leash than Jones or Gettleman.


Gettleman needs to join his ol' buddy Kelvin Benjamin on the beach...
RE: Captain Obvious chiming in.  
UConn4523 : 8/27/2021 2:34 pm : link
In comment 15342613 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
.


Haha, yeah that’s my first reaction. No shit Mike.
if the interior line stinks  
BillyM : 8/27/2021 2:37 pm : link
that reality could be as soon as week 4 for Getty and Judge.

RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
Zeke's Alibi : 8/27/2021 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15342630 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15342619 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


the show and likes working with DG. Hard to believe that Mara isn't going to do with whatever Judge wants to roll with considering he LOVES him so much. Francesa has an ax to grind with DG because he shut off his access.



That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.


The power dynamic has always shifted under Mara, but they always work hand in hand (and probably the biggest reason we have been one of the most successful franchises since establishing this structure).

DG brought in the guys that Shurmur and Betcher wanted (and I do believe he had a bigger voice in the room and part of the reason he hired that milquetoast) but he also brought in the guys that Judge clearly wants (look at our most recent trade for an example of that).

He still has power (Andrew Thomas screams to me that's a DG guy), but he also works well with his coaching staff and peers. It was like that in Carolina too. Judge clearly trusts him and likes working with him. If I were a coach I would too, he's not one of those GMs where he has all the power and it's my way or the highway.
RE: RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15342651 Mike in NY said:
Quote:


That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.



I don't think it is so much of DG reporting to Judge as DG has no problems being the one thrown under the bus if personnel moves don't pan out and is quite comfortable getting X, Y, and Z if the coach tells him that is what he needs. DG's problem is that he is an awful talent evaluator if he is told pick who you want and we'll make it work.


If that's the case, and I still don't buy it, than having DG around is superfluous. And he's basically just in the way.
bw..  
Sean : 8/27/2021 2:49 pm : link
Judge will never “run the show”, but I get the sense him and his staff know exactly what they want, and are decisive in what players fit the scheme. Probably much more than Shurmur/McAdoo.

I think the more interesting question is whether Abrams has as much power as Gettleman.
Bw  
cosmicj : 8/27/2021 2:51 pm : link
Don’t think if it as a hierarchy. It’s more like spheres of influence contested by strong willed individuals.
 
christian : 8/27/2021 2:55 pm : link
The clues are there Gettleman isn’t the principal personnel director any longer.

When Mara compliments Gettleman it’s about the upgrades to the ops and scouting tech. And then it turns to Judge and Gettleman work great together.

It’s also clear Gettleman doesn’t know all the details on what’s going on with the players. If he’s the personnel director that’s frightening. I don’t think he is.

My guess is Judge is the primary decision maker on players, and Abrams is running the budget and strategy.

I was surprised Gettleman came back this year. But per the comments Mara has made, there were still optimizations and modernization needed in the back of the house. That’s a good gig for Gettleman.
RE: if the interior line stinks  
BillT : 8/27/2021 2:56 pm : link
In comment 15342663 BillyM said:
Quote:
that reality could be as soon as week 4 for Getty and Judge.

We actually know that it does not stink. Gates is a player and Hernandez is doing just fine thank you very much. LG is still a question.
RE: RE: RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 3:04 pm : link
In comment 15342678 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15342651 Mike in NY said:


Quote:




That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.



I don't think it is so much of DG reporting to Judge as DG has no problems being the one thrown under the bus if personnel moves don't pan out and is quite comfortable getting X, Y, and Z if the coach tells him that is what he needs. DG's problem is that he is an awful talent evaluator if he is told pick who you want and we'll make it work.



If that's the case, and I still don't buy it, than having DG around is superfluous. And he's basically just in the way.


2nd year head coach still learning to be a head coach and getting team fixed. Obviously Judge is involved more and more into player evaluation and acquisition decisions, but cannot do it all yet, especially admin and contract side of things in front office. Abrams and probably Obrien taking on more and more, and DG less and less on those fronts.

just a matter of time...
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/27/2021 3:04 pm : link
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/27/2021 3:06 pm : link
RE: Captain Obvious chiming in.  
Section331 : 8/27/2021 3:08 pm : link
In comment 15342613 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
.


LOL.
.  
Danny Kanell : 8/27/2021 3:08 pm : link
Agree with this  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/27/2021 3:08 pm : link
Mara has been very complimentary of Judge. I would be very surprised if he is not here for at least 4 years.

RE: .  
mfsd : 8/27/2021 3:28 pm : link
In comment 15342707 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:


My fav  
crick n NC : 8/27/2021 3:30 pm : link
Mara (and Judge) also loves Jones  
Bill L : 8/27/2021 4:02 pm : link
And, while I think that it might be big news somewhere that a young head coach will outlast a hundred and three-year old, cancer-ridden GM, my guess is that many people would have figured that out on their own.

And, this summer has been enough to make me more convinced than skeptical that Jones will pan out. In fact, I'm not sure if it's even a question anymore.
RE: Mara (and Judge) also loves Jones  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 4:06 pm : link
In comment 15342755 Bill L said:
Quote:


And, this summer has been enough to make me more convinced than skeptical that Jones will pan out. In fact, I'm not sure if it's even a question anymore.


What have learned about Jones this summer? Other than he seems to like steak and passes on mac n' cheese...
Pretty much made every throw, Judge says he's processing fast  
Bill L : 8/27/2021 4:08 pm : link
Made plays every practice and, if the numbers were correct yesterday, he he's pitching an 80% completion rate.
RE: Pretty much made every throw, Judge says he's processing fast  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15342758 Bill L said:
Quote:
Made plays every practice and, if the numbers were correct yesterday, he he's pitching an 80% completion rate.


You have got to be kidding me?
I cant imagine how preseason practice  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/27/2021 4:36 pm : link
Would sway opinions either way.

Not sure why one would think that way. Based on practice football and coach press conferences?
RE: …  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15342695 christian said:
Quote:
The clues are there Gettleman isn’t the principal personnel director any longer.

When Mara compliments Gettleman it’s about the upgrades to the ops and scouting tech. And then it turns to Judge and Gettleman work great together.

It’s also clear Gettleman doesn’t know all the details on what’s going on with the players. If he’s the personnel director that’s frightening. I don’t think he is.

My guess is Judge is the primary decision maker on players, and Abrams is running the budget and strategy.

I was surprised Gettleman came back this year. But per the comments Mara has made, there were still optimizations and modernization needed in the back of the house. That’s a good gig for Gettleman.


The issue I have with your conclusions is this - if Mara trusts Gettleman to overhaul the scouting and personnel systems/processes, and Mara has expressed how impressed he is with those changes, why, then, wouldn't Mara let Gettleman make players decisions based on those systems?
Crick  
cosmicj : 8/27/2021 5:05 pm : link
LOL
RE: RE: RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
Red Right Hand : 8/27/2021 5:06 pm : link
In comment 15342678 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15342651 Mike in NY said:


Quote:




That's an interesting take. You actually think Mara has turned over such a big new leaf that Gettleman now essentially reports to Judge??

As much as I wish that were true - well, I wish Gettleman was no longer - Mara has ALWAYS stayed true to the dynamic of the HC and GM having separate reporting structures with the GM having significant say in personnel.



I don't think it is so much of DG reporting to Judge as DG has no problems being the one thrown under the bus if personnel moves don't pan out and is quite comfortable getting X, Y, and Z if the coach tells him that is what he needs. DG's problem is that he is an awful talent evaluator if he is told pick who you want and we'll make it work.



If that's the case, and I still don't buy it, than having DG around is superfluous. And he's basically just in the way.
Right, cuz things will run so much smoother when judge has GM duties on top of being head coach, as opposed to working with a guy he gets along well with, and easily, handling those responsibilities. I'm sure he can't wait...
RE: Francesa  
joeinpa : 8/27/2021 5:06 pm : link
In comment 15342637 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
is an all-time clown....


A very successful one. There was a time when he and Dog were the best there was.
Haven’t the upgrades to tech and ops already happened  
cosmicj : 8/27/2021 5:07 pm : link
If so, Mara is complimenting DG on things that have already happened, which supports the position that DG isn’t really the personnel head anymore.
Not Obvious At All  
Samiam : 8/27/2021 5:40 pm : link
Stop this knee jerk anti Francesca bias. Think. If the team has a bad year because the starting OL sucks or there are injuries and the depth sucks, Gettleman is a goner in my opinion. Then, the team has to figure out if Jones is the guy going forward. You hire a new GM. It might not be Abrams. That GM may or may not want Judge and 2-years of a shitty record might tarnish Judge’s reputation. It’s never simple. Francesca is basically that Judge is Mara’s guy and he’s staying which actually could screw up getting the right new GM.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 8/27/2021 5:53 pm : link
In comment 15342801 bw in dc said:
Quote:
The issue I have with your conclusions is this - if Mara trusts Gettleman to overhaul the scouting and personnel systems/processes, and Mara has expressed how impressed he is with those changes, why, then, wouldn't Mara let Gettleman make players decisions based on those systems?


My uneducated guess is Gettleman is acting more in the role of contract project manager than he is team architect.

We know Abrams is negotiating the agreements, we know Gettleman is out of the know on some of the simple facts with the players.

My sense is Dave is in more of a ceremonial role right now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: In fact it's exactly why I think Gettleman still has a job, Judge runs  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 5:59 pm : link
In comment 15342806 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:

If that's the case, and I still don't buy it, than having DG around is superfluous. And he's basically just in the way.

Right, cuz things will run so much smoother when judge has GM duties on top of being head coach, as opposed to working with a guy he gets along well with, and easily, handling those responsibilities. I'm sure he can't wait...


Based on the way Judge carries himself, the level of comprehension he shows in interviews/pressers, and his attention to detail, I have no problem seeing him taking the GM duties as well. Seems like the guy has a lot of capacity. And he could continue to let Abrams be the contract/cap guru, so he doesn't have to take on that additional role.
I'd be worried about that. Even great coaches don't do well  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/27/2021 6:00 pm : link
when they get to have both titles.
 
christian : 8/27/2021 6:02 pm : link
Abrams might be the smartest guy in the room, and that’s saying something when Judge is there.

If poise and command of the information are a big part of success, I’m comfortable with those two.
Is there not anxiety  
crick n NC : 8/27/2021 6:09 pm : link
That Abrahams is just another "Giants Way yes man"?
Regarding Francessa, he's always disliked Gettleman. I don't know if  
Ira : 8/27/2021 6:18 pm : link
it's personal or not, but I ignore him when he talks about DG. But I agree that since Judge is younger, and DG is a cancer survivor, Judge will outlast Gettleman.
Ten Ton and christian with on point comments  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 6:29 pm : link
A little more Judge and Abrams involved in everything, and less Getty, is probably a good thing...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/27/2021 6:56 pm : link
The Pope hates Gettleman & hated the Jones pick so...nothing to see here.

& Simmons' love of Mac Jones...man, it's already insufferable.
Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
MarkT : 8/27/2021 7:17 pm : link
you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.
RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 8/27/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:
Quote:
you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.


Well, he hasn't set the world on fire in his time here so far.
RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/27/2021 7:21 pm : link
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:
Quote:
you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.


At least the Gettleman hate has gotten some to like Abrams after years of bitching about him being a lackey and number cruncher.

Of course, that's conveniently forgotten
RE: Is there not anxiety  
christian : 8/27/2021 7:28 pm : link
In comment 15342839 crick n NC said:
Quote:
That Abrahams is just another "Giants Way yes man"?


I don’t want Abrams managing Judge. I’d be comfortable if Abrams was the VP of Football ops and Judge head coach.
Did he mention Glennon?  
St. Jimmy : 8/27/2021 7:32 pm : link
Mike loves Glennon.
RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
Greg from LI : 8/27/2021 7:40 pm : link
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:
Quote:
you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.


Is there some reason I'm not supposed to hate the clown?
RE: Is there not anxiety  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15342839 crick n NC said:
Quote:
That Abrahams is just another "Giants Way yes man"?


Absolutely. But after watching his side by side in a press conference earlier this year, he at least sounded the part of professional, well-versed GM versus the GM who sounded like he would be better managing the parking lots at MetLife.

Plus, Abrams does seem to have grown into a very competent contract negotiator and cap manager. And those are vital skills. Whether he could manage personnel decisions certainly remains to be seen...
RE: I'd be worried about that. Even great coaches don't do well  
bw in dc : 8/27/2021 7:48 pm : link
In comment 15342837 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
when they get to have both titles.


There would be risk allowing Judge to wear both hats. But I don't believe he could do worse than the incumbent.

I think the league has it backwards right now. The coach should pick his GM (or be the GM). That's exactly what Shanahan did in SanFran. Shanahan knows exactly what he wants and he picked the guy who he thought was the best fit to execute that.
RE: Francesa  
OBJRoyal : 8/27/2021 8:04 pm : link
In comment 15342637 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
is an all-time clown....


Did he say something that is WRONG??
RE: RE: I'd be worried about that. Even great coaches don't do well  
Tom in NY : 8/27/2021 8:06 pm : link
In comment 15342915 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15342837 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


when they get to have both titles.



There would be risk allowing Judge to wear both hats. But I don't believe he could do worse than the incumbent.

I think the league has it backwards right now. The coach should pick his GM (or be the GM). That's exactly what Shanahan did in SanFran. Shanahan knows exactly what he wants and he picked the guy who he thought was the best fit to execute that.

This setup can work, but there better be a President of Football Operations over the HC & GM as who would make the call to let one or the other, or even both go? Most of the owners are not skilled enough evaluators (see Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder) to really understand what is going on with their own teams.
Tom in NY  
Samiam : 8/27/2021 8:12 pm : link
Add John Mara to that list of owners.
RE: RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
Jimmy Googs : 8/27/2021 8:17 pm : link
In comment 15342897 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:


Quote:


you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.



At least the Gettleman hate has gotten some to like Abrams after years of bitching about him being a lackey and number cruncher.

Of course, that's conveniently forgotten


Who are you claiming bitched about Abrams before but forgot about it and now like him?

Stay focused on this because you defend the front office in almost all instances so you may be conflating some of your rages, excuse me, debates on this topic...
RE: RE: Francesa  
DannyDimes : 8/27/2021 9:31 pm : link
In comment 15342807 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 15342637 DannyDimes said:


Quote:


is an all-time clown....



A very successful one. There was a time when he and Dog were the best there was.


Yep and still a clown...
RE: RE: Francesa  
DannyDimes : 8/27/2021 9:33 pm : link
In comment 15342921 OBJRoyal said:
Quote:
In comment 15342637 DannyDimes said:


Quote:


is an all-time clown....



Did he say something that is WRONG??


Even a clown can be right twice a day.... wait, I think I mixed my metaphors :)
RE: RE: RE: I'd be worried about that. Even great coaches don't do well  
Leg of Theismann : 8/27/2021 10:24 pm : link
In comment 15342922 Tom in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15342915 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15342837 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


when they get to have both titles.



There would be risk allowing Judge to wear both hats. But I don't believe he could do worse than the incumbent.

I think the league has it backwards right now. The coach should pick his GM (or be the GM). That's exactly what Shanahan did in SanFran. Shanahan knows exactly what he wants and he picked the guy who he thought was the best fit to execute that.


This setup can work, but there better be a President of Football Operations over the HC & GM as who would make the call to let one or the other, or even both go? Most of the owners are not skilled enough evaluators (see Jerry Jones, Daniel Snyder) to really understand what is going on with their own teams.


Wouldn’t this need to be the case regardless of whether the GM picked the HC or the HC picked the GM? In either case someone with some brains needs to be above both of them— hold them accountable and know when to cut bait.
RE: …  
Leg of Theismann : 8/27/2021 10:40 pm : link
In comment 15342695 christian said:
Quote:


I was surprised Gettleman came back this year. But per the comments Mara has made, there were still optimizations and modernization needed in the back of the house. That’s a good gig for Gettleman.


I don’t know— when I think optimization and “modernization” in particular I don’t think Dave Gettleman. I mean I agree he’s having to LEARN some of the modern ways of doing things to adapt to the new NFL. But are they really making it his main job responsibility to implement that stuff? When he’s essentially learning it all on the fly? As an example— He stated when he first got here he doesn’t believe in analytics, and slowly he’s decided to actually implement some of that stuff (hiring “computer folks”)— but I’m not sure how much of an expert he can actually be in analytics to this point when he just started thinking it wasn’t a horrible idea like a year ago. I’m not sure he’s the guy we want to head up the “modernization” initiative.
All that said by the way  
Leg of Theismann : 8/27/2021 10:51 pm : link
I’m not doubting that could be the case. That might be what DG was given as a job (optimization and modernization) but if that’s his main responsibility? I personally think there would have to be way better people out there to man that position. But I’m certainly not putting it past John Mara to think that was a good idea. Either way— if THAT is DG’s current role and he was just given that job because they don’t think it was time to fire him yet (which I can kind of understand) then it would seem the writing is on the wall.
This is not surprising...  
Johnny5 : 8/27/2021 11:15 pm : link
... to me. Actually it seems pretty obvious.
The gifs never fail to crack me up  
djm : 8/27/2021 11:21 pm : link
I just stare at them lol
RE: RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
christian : 8/27/2021 11:35 pm : link
In comment 15342897 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:


Quote:


you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.



At least the Gettleman hate has gotten some to like Abrams after years of bitching about him being a lackey and number cruncher.

Of course, that's conveniently forgotten


Abrams being a number cruncher has always been a good thing.

He’s proven he’s an astute negotiator and a strong communicator.

Paired with Judge, it’s a good combo and I hope it happens.
wow...  
Brown_Hornet : 8/28/2021 1:26 am : link
...fucking, wow!
RE: RE: RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/28/2021 7:50 am : link
In comment 15342932 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15342897 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


In comment 15342893 MarkT said:


Quote:


you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.



At least the Gettleman hate has gotten some to like Abrams after years of bitching about him being a lackey and number cruncher.

Of course, that's conveniently forgotten



Who are you claiming bitched about Abrams before but forgot about it and now like him?

Stay focused on this because you defend the front office in almost all instances so you may be conflating some of your rages, excuse me, debates on this topic...


Are you a clown on every thread? Are you saying people haven't criticized Abrams? Linked below is a thread where people not only don't want him as GM - with bw leading the charge - they think he sucks at the cap.

But lets look at two other comments from threads. From two time periods of the SAME poster!

After a press conference with Gettleman and Abrams(when Googs was still banned apparently):
Quote:
One guy talks too much
LBH15 : 4/13/2020 1:56 pm : link
and the other doesn't know how to open his mouth. Too busy with his calculator


And as usual - Googs supporting his buddy to pile on - this thread was is Abrams will succeed Gettleman:
Quote:
RE: 100%
Jimmy Googs : 9/15/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14578146 bw in dc said:
Quote:
It's the Giants way.


Absolutely.

And if this happens, nothing will change. That's also the Giants way.

Abrams for GM?? No way! - ( New Window )
Abrams  
Jimmy Googs : 8/28/2021 8:22 am : link
Can't help you with the first post, it's not mine.

Also the archived link you provided doesn't go to a thread with that second post on 9/15/2019. Send me that thread.
Still..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/28/2021 8:40 am : link
clinging to the idea you weren't LBH15??

You really are a fucking clown
Send the link to the thread with that 9/15/2019 post  
Jimmy Googs : 8/28/2021 8:42 am : link
.
Well, are you going to show that link?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/28/2021 9:05 am : link
.
RE: Same old anti-Gettleman Crap...  
EricJ : 8/28/2021 9:34 am : link
In comment 15342893 MarkT said:
Quote:
you guys make me sick. This site is becoming a swamp.


becoming??
This thread isn’t meant to be anti-Gettleman..  
Sean : 8/28/2021 9:43 am : link
It’s a long term view on Judge. It isn’t unreasonable for fans to speculate on how the future HC/GM dynamic will look considering the age difference between Judge & Gettleman.

I’m starting to think the plan was always for Abrams to take over even when DG was hired. As soon as DG came on, Abrams role and exposure grew.

Here is a direct quote from DG on draft night regarding the trade with the Bears:
Quote:
"What happened was we had called around and … I had spoken to Ryan Pace, and I had heard he was interested in moving up," Gettleman said. "So, I called him. When I spoke to him, he said, 'Yes, we're very interested.' And then the conversations begin.
"I spoke to Ryan today before the draft and I spoke to him again. He called me again somewhere around the seventh pick, somewhere in there, and then we got on the clock and from there, (assistant general manager) Kevin Abrams took over and finished off the trade."
Don't bother FMIC, I found it. Except in that 9/15/2019  
Jimmy Googs : 8/28/2021 9:45 am : link
archived thread linked below about Abrams you won't find that post from me at 7:39 pm. In fact you won't find me in that thread at all.

It appears you used another post between Jay on the Island and bw in dc in that archived thread, edited it to fit your twisted agenda and pasted it above to make it seem like I wrote it. Here is the original one with the same #stamp and same time of 7:39 pm as well.

This has got to be a new low, even for you. You really are the biggest chucklehead BBI has ever seen. Shame on you...

Quote:
RE: 100%
bw in dc : 9/15/2019 7:39 pm : link
In comment 14578146 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
It's the Giants way.

Absolutely spot on.

And if this happens, absolutely NOTHING will change.



https://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=587411

I skimmed this thread  
arniefez : 8/28/2021 11:08 am : link
It always amazes me that people who follow the Giant closely enough to post here have no clue what the Giants business model or org chart is or how it works.

Maybe this will help. Probably not though. Almost everyday there are still posts about if Parcells would have left right after the 1990 Super Bowl, Belichick would have been the next HC. That was never going to happen under Goegre Young's watch. I digress but it segue's into the OP. If the Giants were run in 1997 the way they are now Bill Parcells would have been back and Bill Belichick would have been with him and then he might have actually replaced Parcells when he left.

There are two families that own 50% each of the Giants.

The Mara family owns 50%. Wellington and Ann Mara had 11 children 4 Boys and 7 girls. Their 50% is split equally 11 ways. John is the oldest and he is the CEO of the Giants. Chris is the 3rd oldest (2nd oldest boy) and he is SR VP of Player Personnel. Susan Mara is the 2nd oldest and her son Tim McDonnell is the Co-Director of Player Personnel and thought to be the likely next generation CEO after John Mara. The Giants are the Mara family business.

The Tisch family owns the other 50%. Robert and Joan Tisch had three children that own their 50% equally. Steve Tisch is Chairman and Executive Vice President of the Giants. Jonathon Tisch is the treasurer of the Giants. Their sister Laurie Tisch does not seem to be involved in the day to day of the NY Giants. All three of the Tisch children are billionaires without the Giants from their family business Loews Corp.

The public face of the Giants is that the Mara family runs the football side of the business and the Tisch family runs the business side. IMO that seems to be a reasonable truth.

Again the Mara family runs the football side the business. The on field product. The Mara family (mostly John) has hired and fired every Giants coach since they fired Jim Fassel. The Giants GM does not have hiring or firing authority over head coaches. The last Giants head coach that was hired by a GM was George Young hiring Fassel in 1997.

The head coach of the Giants does not report to the GM, he reports to the CEO. The GM also reports to the CEO and Chris Mara is SR VP of Player Personnel which is on the same line as the GM on Org chart except he owns the team and can't be fired. The GM of the NY Giants is not a final authority position anymore. It has not been since George Young retired.

The GM of the Giants is a consensus builder with a lot of influence over the organization but not final say. It's reported that the GM has the final call on who the selections are on draft day and free agent signings but we have no way to know what goes on in the Giants offices, it seems there are a lot of cooks in the kitchen and a lot of people shopping for the groceries.

When Tom Coughlin was fired by John Mara he went out of his way to say that no coach of the Giants in his lifetime ever had more say in the selection of players than Tom Coughlin. That's probably why Jerry Reese wasn't fired at the same time although that was a terrible decision.

The Giants are 15-33 in the three years Gettleman has been GM. The head coach he lobbied to hire was an awful choice and fired after two years. The head coach that Bill Belichick recommend to John Mara took over a team with one of the worst rosters in the NFL and and after 1-7 start went 5-3 in the final 8 games.

There is no question that way that 2020 season finished bought Joe Judge much more organizational influence than he came in with. He has quickly become the face of the franchise.

So far in training camp the two biggest weakness from last year, the OL and the QB, are still the two greatest concerns for 2021. If neither of them improve during 2021 both the QB and the GM who selected him will not be with the Giants in 2022 and barring a disaster Joe Judge will be. We didn't need Mike Francesa to point that out.


RE: RE: RE: Francesa  
Brown_Hornet : 8/28/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15342995 DannyDimes said:
Quote:
In comment 15342921 OBJRoyal said:


Quote:


In comment 15342637 DannyDimes said:


Quote:


is an all-time clown....



Did he say something that is WRONG??



Even a clown can be right twice a day.... wait, I think I mixed my metaphors :)
Nope, spot-on.
We see it here everyday.
Judge seems to be working well  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/28/2021 11:17 am : link
with the front office staff including Dave. Most likely Abrams will assume the GM title but Little will change with that imo. He won't be the one to keep or fire Judge. What they don't need is competing agendas.

What is most important are the scouts working with the coaches to understand their needs. We are identifying much better talent after round 2. I hope the trend to keep and even add to draft picks continues. Players drafted after round 2 and UDFA that can be developed is the key.

Judge is the leader and communicator for the franchise. He is on the front lines with the team. If the GM communicates well that's great but it is not going to impact the on field product imo.

Good post arniefez!  
NYGgolfer : 8/28/2021 3:07 pm : link
.
Arnie...  
bw in dc : 8/28/2021 3:15 pm : link
Nice post. I mentioned reporting structure differences between GM and HC as well yesterday.

I part way with you a bit on the hiring of a HC. I think Mara has to ultimately give his final say, but the GM has always been integrally involved and seems to lead the process.
RE: Arnie...  
Sean : 8/28/2021 3:17 pm : link
In comment 15343449 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Nice post. I mentioned reporting structure differences between GM and HC as well yesterday.

I part way with you a bit on the hiring of a HC. I think Mara has to ultimately give his final say, but the GM has always been integrally involved and seems to lead the process.

Do you think Reese led the charge in wanting McAdoo? Idk about that. Wasn’t it rumored that Patricia was the first choice in 2018, but he chose Detroit?
Ernie Accorsi wanted no part of Tom Coughlin  
arniefez : 8/28/2021 4:28 pm : link
None. It is my opinion like Tiki he retired to get away from him. Read Ernie's book.

The Mara's hire the head coaches period. Even George Young wasn't allowed to fire Parcells by Wellington and Tim J. after 1983. But Young Hird Perkins, Parcells, the guy who came after Parcells and Fassel. Reeves was a Wellington hire when George Young couldn't get anyone that he wanted to say yes after 1992.

When Gettleman was the new GM was the time he had the most influence with the Mara's that he ever will. They gave him the coach that wanted in Shurmur but it was still their call not his. Gettleman, Abrams, anyone else you want to mention had no input in hiring Judge except saying yes when John Mara said we have our guy.
 
christian : 8/28/2021 4:52 pm : link
I suspect with the uproar surrounding Manning’s refusal to play, and McAdoo and Reese’s subsequent dismissal — Mara leaned on Gettleman more for the Shurmur hire than he had with previous decisions.
Bush league crap by Fatman in Charlotte  
chick310 : 8/28/2021 4:56 pm : link
creating that fake post above. Not really surprising but still bush league.

I was about to comment in the other thread and it got deleted mid-stream. Can't wait to hear the explanation on this one, if it comes.
RE: Ernie Accorsi wanted no part of Tom Coughlin  
Jimmy Googs : 8/28/2021 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15343530 arniefez said:
Quote:
None. It is my opinion like Tiki he retired to get away from him. Read Ernie's book.

The Mara's hire the head coaches period. Even George Young wasn't allowed to fire Parcells by Wellington and Tim J. after 1983. But Young Hird Perkins, Parcells, the guy who came after Parcells and Fassel. Reeves was a Wellington hire when George Young couldn't get anyone that he wanted to say yes after 1992.

When Gettleman was the new GM was the time he had the most influence with the Mara's that he ever will. They gave him the coach that wanted in Shurmur but it was still their call not his. Gettleman, Abrams, anyone else you want to mention had no input in hiring Judge except saying yes when John Mara said we have our guy.


arnie - I never read his book (at least I don't think I did) but I don't recall it so cut & dry like that between Accorsi and Coughlin.

Accorsi's first choice was Nick Saban back then to be coach. But when Saban wasn't interested, Accorsi very much pushed for Coughlin as the next best choice to the owners.

Long time ago, but that is what i remember...
arniefez  
Bill2 : 8/28/2021 7:18 pm : link
I hope you are well. I dont mean to get into a debate on this but I'm sure you want to represent as accurate a set of facts as possible. Opinions based on whatever the facts are can always vary and still be opinions.

There are many accurate parts of your post. There are vital points that are 180 from what happened ( I can assure you from unbiased folks that were directly involved).

Hopefully someday the conjecture points will get filled in for it is good for long term fans to understand the visibly chaotic look of the last years

Please don't misunderstand that what did happen doesn't make Ownership or DG a hero or villan. Opinions on them stand on many data points. Just not some mentioned above.

Take care. Especially this hurricane season
Accorsi's first choice was Nick Saban back then to be coach. But when  
arniefez : 8/29/2021 9:19 am : link
Saban wasn't interested, Accorsi very much pushed for Coughlin. Is not accurate.

RE: Accorsi's first choice was Nick Saban back then to be coach. But when  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 9:51 am : link
In comment 15343897 arniefez said:
Quote:
Saban wasn't interested, Accorsi very much pushed for Coughlin. Is not accurate.


After I wrote that post I went digging to see if my memory was correct. I found this old article with a few Accorsi quotes that basically backs up those sentiments. Unless he is straight up lying in the article which i guess could be...


https://nypost.com/2004/01/14/accorsi-well-didnt-push-me-to-coughlin/
TC  
Lines of Scrimmage : 8/29/2021 11:33 am : link
I believe Mara really wanted him to be the next HC. They made a push for him after Handley but TC felt he had more work to complete at Boston College. He stayed one more year and then went to Jax.

I think part of why Mara held on to TC was out of loyalty to his father's last hire.
RE: RE: Accorsi's first choice was Nick Saban back then to be coach. But when  
bw in dc : 8/29/2021 11:41 am : link
In comment 15343917 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15343897 arniefez said:


Quote:


Saban wasn't interested, Accorsi very much pushed for Coughlin. Is not accurate.




After I wrote that post I went digging to see if my memory was correct. I found this old article with a few Accorsi quotes that basically backs up those sentiments. Unless he is straight up lying in the article which i guess could be...


https://nypost.com/2004/01/14/accorsi-well-didnt-push-me-to-coughlin/


Good pull, Googs. I have always believed the GM for Jints Central has considerable input in the selection process.

From the NYP link:

Quote:
As far as Wellington Mara’s influence, Accorsi said, “If John and I would have walked into him and said, ‘Joe Smith’ instead of [Coughlin] we would have gotten who we wanted.


Can’t imagine Accorsi saying that if it weren’t true.

Remember, too, that when Mara wanted to replace Reese he brought in Accorsi to run that show as well.
bw in dc  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15343991 bw in dc said:
Quote:

Remember, too, that when Mara wanted to replace Reese he brought in Accorsi to run that show as well.


Who could forget that show? Recall they interviewed Marc Ross, Kevin Abrams, Louis Riddick and Gettleman. Not sure if I missed anyone else.

Gettleman's availability to be our next GM because of his departure from Carolina was just a perfect example of when the stars aligned for the NY Giants...

Someone linked a podcast last summer...  
bw in dc : 8/29/2021 2:14 pm : link
with Accorsi and a site that covers NYG.

In it, Accorsi essentially admits that Gettleman was going to be his recommendation from the start and that was because he felt guilty not recommending Gettleman when he retired in 2006. In other words, like a few of us predicted before the start of the GM "search" in 2018, it was a fait accompli that Gettleman was getting the seat.
Owners ( both)  
Bill2 : 8/29/2021 4:32 pm : link
Run or are heavily involved in the wholet HC recruiting and selection process.

That's been broadly true but was completely the case in this last coaching cycle.

Reasons why are obvious.

Shurmur was not a DG or any Giant leaders prime preference
honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 4:37 pm : link
and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).
PIT and BAL are the first 2 that come to mind for me  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 4:46 pm : link
but there's not a ton to learn there because the bulk of their hires have been internal with the exception of Baltimore hiring Harbough, and if memory serves when they hired Harbaugh they really wanted to hire Garrett but Dallas denied permission. But Decosta and Colbert have each been in those organizations for 2 decades+.
RE: honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
cjac : 8/29/2021 4:50 pm : link
In comment 15344163 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).


I’d say the Steelers have been pretty good in that category.
not sure what my point is beyond hiring good coaches/execs isn't easy  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 5:02 pm : link
Clark Hunt made a bunch of bad hires before Andy Reid, and then hired John Dorsey as GM like a week after hiring Reid. But Reid is a great coach so it worked out.

Seattle similarly bet big on Carroll and that worked out.

Mickey Loomis got it right with Sean Payton so he's 1/1 (not sure how much ownership there was involved in that).

Green bay has been blessed by QBs covering problems around them. None of their coaches or GMs have particularly distinguished themselves.

Despite his extracurriculars Irsay has actually done pretty well but he's also obviously made a bunch of poor hires too (and had good fortune with his 1st overall picks).

Those are basically the winningest teams in the last 2 decades though (along with NE, PIT, BAL). Philly is up there too but that's mostly on the strength of getting Reid right in 1999.
RE: honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 5:04 pm : link
In comment 15344163 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).


New England
Pittsburgh
Alabama
RE: RE: honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 5:06 pm : link
In comment 15344179 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15344163 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).



New England
Pittsburgh
Alabama


Ignoring the exceptions you denoted...
RE: RE: honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 5:07 pm : link
In comment 15344179 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15344163 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).



New England
Pittsburgh
Alabama


ok now try a team that's hired someone more recently than 2007.
There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 5:13 pm : link
would likely be matched with few examples for a particular team.

You can say for certain who isn’t good at it...
RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 8:49 pm : link
In comment 15344191 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
would likely be matched with few examples for a particular team.

You can say for certain who isn’t good at it...


indeed, critics always do seem to outnumber authors.
RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 8:56 pm : link
In comment 15345313 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15344191 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


would likely be matched with few examples for a particular team.

You can say for certain who isn’t good at it...



indeed, critics always do seem to outnumber authors.


Yep. As does the need for it...
RE: RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 9:01 pm : link
In comment 15345349 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15345313 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15344191 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


would likely be matched with few examples for a particular team.

You can say for certain who isn’t good at it...



indeed, critics always do seem to outnumber authors.



Yep. As does the need for it...


31 teams end the year disappointed.
1 team doesn't.

the 31 can't just fire their way to the super bowl.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 9:19 pm : link
In comment 15345373 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15345349 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15345313 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15344191 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


would likely be matched with few examples for a particular team.

You can say for certain who isn’t good at it...



indeed, critics always do seem to outnumber authors.



Yep. As does the need for it...



31 teams end the year disappointed.
1 team doesn't.

the 31 can't just fire their way to the super bowl.


Then stay the course...always a viable strategy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15345437 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

31 teams end the year disappointed.
1 team doesn't.

the 31 can't just fire their way to the super bowl.



Then stay the course...always a viable strategy.


Mickey Loomis, Kevin Colbert, and Ozzie Newsome would probably agree with that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 9:35 pm : link
In comment 15345480 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15345437 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



31 teams end the year disappointed.
1 team doesn't.

the 31 can't just fire their way to the super bowl.



Then stay the course...always a viable strategy.



Mickey Loomis, Kevin Colbert, and Ozzie Newsome would probably agree with that.


Doesn’t matter. What would you do?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: There really is no way to say for certain as success  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 10:11 pm : link
In comment 15345484 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15345480 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


In comment 15345437 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



31 teams end the year disappointed.
1 team doesn't.

the 31 can't just fire their way to the super bowl.



Then stay the course...always a viable strategy.



Mickey Loomis, Kevin Colbert, and Ozzie Newsome would probably agree with that.



Doesn’t matter. What would you do?


here's a simplified version based on my experiences:

1. let go of anyone when certain they can't do the job and are not adding value.

2. if not certain, work to improve. it's incumbent on whoever the ultimate decision maker is (in this case mara) to find a way to get the necessary production out of people or move them up to #1 and move on. You work at trying to put people in position to succeed as long as you think that's possible or until a clearly better alternative comes along. same as any player on the roster.

working towards improvement can be incremental and on the margins because you never know where there may be an unexpectedly positive tipping point. Like making Tom Coughlin fire Tim Lewis and John Hufnagel (which were correctly forced by ownership). pairing Gettleman with a strong young personality with a clear vision like Judge was a clear step in the right direction last year, as well as allowing new voices to come in from the outside. I highly doubt they would have the Bears first round pick if that didn't happen.

imo the #1 challenge Mara ran into in the last decade was that he had to make decisions to move on from 3 people who are going to be looked at pretty favorably in team history - Coughlin ('15), Reese ('17), and Eli ('19). Clearly not clean category 1 decisions like McAdoo, Shurmur, or Marc Ross. Mara got a lot wrong in the final years of the first 3 in a variety of ways. Mainly I think he thought Jerry Reese was the NYG Kevin Colbert or Ozzie Newsome or Mickey Loomis and he turned out not to be. That's on Mara but there's enormous difficulty in moving on from people who you know can get the job done when you are in an industry where more than 90% of new hires don't work out.
Some of this. Decision making processes absolutely have to  
Jimmy Googs : 8/29/2021 10:19 pm : link
change. And there needs to be decision makers stepping back and others coming forward or new ones found.

This isn’t about being always right or always wrong...it’s about preparedness and process. It’s not prevalent within the NYG franchise...not enough.

RE: Some of this. Decision making processes absolutely have to  
Eric on Li : 8/29/2021 10:42 pm : link
In comment 15345590 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
change. And there needs to be decision makers stepping back and others coming forward or new ones found.

This isn’t about being always right or always wrong...it’s about preparedness and process. It’s not prevalent within the NYG franchise...not enough.


Specifically, which other franchises "preparedness and process" should they be more like?
Not exactly a bold prediction to say the young HC will outlast the  
Heisenberg : 8/30/2021 8:11 am : link
retirement age GM.
RE: RE: Some of this. Decision making processes absolutely have to  
Jimmy Googs : 8/30/2021 8:17 am : link
In comment 15345655 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 15345590 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


change. And there needs to be decision makers stepping back and others coming forward or new ones found.

This isn’t about being always right or always wrong...it’s about preparedness and process. It’s not prevalent within the NYG franchise...not enough.




Specifically, which other franchises "preparedness and process" should they be more like?


I don't rank them nor care to.

Based on last evening, an adequate player evaluation process to find a serviceable Left and Right Tackle (if not an OL altogether) would be a good start. I haven't seen a reliable one on the team for a decade.

Again, if its all good from your perspective then we can move on...
RE: RE: honest question - which owner/franchise is best at hiring GM/coaches?  
NYGgolfer : 8/31/2021 8:02 am : link
In comment 15344173 cjac said:
Quote:
In comment 15344163 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


and let's try to keep to franchises/owners who have had to actively do so within the last 2 decades (everyone other than the Pats).



I’d say the Steelers have been pretty good in that category.


Absolutely. It would be impossible to leave out the Rooney family in what they have been able to accomplish over the decades with respect to their Pittsburgh Steelers.

Their front office, coaching hires, and drafting has all been exemplary over the years. And that simply translates to their product on the field performing with great consistency and success.
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