At Michigan ... four-year letterman ... appeared in 50 career games with 46 starts at left guard ... elected team captain in 2018 and 2019; became the 12th player in school history to be selected captain twice ... 2019 All-American: Walter Camp Football Foundation (2nd) and Associated Press (3rd) ... three-time All-Big Ten performer: first team in 2019 and second team in 2017 and 2018 ... selected to the watch list for the Outland Trophy twice (2018-19) ... co-recipient of the Hugh R. Rader Award as Michigan's Top Offensive Lineman … 2017 Academic All-Big Ten Conference. link - ( New Window )
Summary: Senior entry from Hartland, Wisconsin. Four year starter that was 1st Team All Big 10 as a senior, 2nd Team as a junior and sophomore. A 2019 3rd Team All American. Bredeson started 46 games over his career and was a two time team captain. He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation. When it comes to physical ability and potential, he is limited but there is still a good chance he sees starter-duty at some point in his career. He will be in the league for a long time.
*You don’t see prospects coming out of big time programs like Michigan with 46 starts under their belt too often. Bredeson won’t be anyone’s favorite guard in the class but I bet he stays in the league as long as anyone on this list. There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
I liked him in the draft last year and id guess they gave up a non-7th
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
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28s
Ben Brederson is 6-5, 315 and was a fourth-round pick last year in Baltimore. He played pretty well during the preseason, I'm told, but was an odd-man out on a pretty stacked Ravens offensive line.
hope it's not more than a 6th. I agree it's pathetic that we need to trade for OL given all the resources we've put into the position over the last 10 years.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
The Bears’ first…
Dave said no big deal. He has another first to throw away.
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
He hasn't made any starts. Only one season, but still.
Sy's write up prior to 2020 draft:
Ben Bredeson / Michigan / 6’5 – 315
Grade: 76
Summary: Senior entry from Hartland, Wisconsin. Four year starter who was 1st Team All Big 10 as a senior, 2nd Team as a junior and sophomore. A 2019 3rd Team All American. Bredeson started 46 games over his career and was a two time team captain. He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation. When it comes to physical ability and potential, he is limited but there is still a good chance he sees starter-duty at some point in his career. He will be in the league for a long time.
*You don’t see prospects coming out of big time programs like Michigan with 46 starts under their belt too often. Bredeson won’t be anyone’s favorite guard in the class but I bet he stays in the league as long as anyone on this list. There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
How do you compare his NFL play to Price to date?
Price has played 1,353 snaps
Bredeson has played 48
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
How do you compare his NFL play to Price to date?
Price has played 1,353 snaps
Bredeson has played 48
Can't compare on the pro level
When you add in the fact that Price is on the last year of his deal I would assume they hope Price can compete for a starting spot now while Bredeson may be more of a developmental guy who will be a better backup than they currently have.
When you add in the fact that Price is on the last year of his deal I would assume they hope Price can compete for a starting spot now while Bredeson may be more of a developmental guy who will be a better backup than they currently have.
Bredeson probably starts out as the top backup at G and C.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You read it wrong. The Giants are getting the 5th and 7th
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
This is like the equivilent of like a 5th rounder. I'm good with it, they have to start throwing shit against the wall with the position they're in.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
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57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
No they traded a 4th for Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
Please let this be wrong
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You are reading that wrong.
Ravens Get
2022 4th Round pick
Giants Get
Ben Bredeson
2022 5th Round pick
2023 7th Round pick
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
No they traded a 4th for Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Or are they getting the ravens 5th and 7th for our 4th. That’s how I read it.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
getting a guy from a deep Baltimore line. Basically swapping their 4th for the Raven's 5th and picking up a 2023 7th which can be used in a future deal as well. Better late than never to address this line.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You are reading that wrong.
Ravens Get
2022 4th Round pick
Giants Get
Ben Bredeson
2022 5th Round pick
2023 7th Round pick
we are getting a 5th and 7th back, we didn't trade all of those picks. We got Bredeson and a 5th in 2022, 7th in 2023, and are trading a 4th in 2022 of our own
that trade makes sense for both sides. Ravens get a 4th round pick to do over, but also give up some lower picks to offset some of the asset loss.
good aggressive move by the giants. I've said this in several posts but for all the talk about the great browns OL, the best move they made (other than hiring Callahan) was trading for Wyatt Teller from the Bills, on cutdown day, when he'd only made 7 starts having been a 5th round pick the year prior. They gave up 5th + 6th round picks for Teller + a 7th.
with Beane being Buffalo's GM I wonder if that was a deal the NYG passed on at the time and are now trying to learn from their mistake.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Oops, I missread it also! I’m ok with the trade now.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Calm down. Take a deep breath. Read slowly. Sound out the words.
Giants are getting Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th. They are giving up only a 4th.
the fact that he wasn't drafted by the giants gives me hope
will work out, but let's start with the fact that they'll be replacing Wiggins and Larsen, so almost a certain upgrade. And if we're lucky, we may longer have a guard problem. Wouldn't that be sweet?
than the players they had in-house. Now, let's see who sticks, can Hernandez earn a second contract, and can one of these guys unseat Gates at C.
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
This is well said. Again, the Giants could have sat at 11 and drafted a strong OL prospect in AVT or Slater, they opted for the trade down and additional 2022 first.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
.
But they have the Bears 4th next year I believe,
in switching positions in the first round this year.
I believe it was a 1st and 4th.
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
RE: Giants traded for two better interior OL prospects
than the players they had in-house. Now, let's see who sticks, can Hernandez earn a second contract, and can one of these guys unseat Gates at C.
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
even if hernandez manages to play well he's not worth a second contract. the dude has sucked ass and suddenly lost weight in his contract year. i don't care if he plays really well, they should not entertain the thought giving him a second contract
RE: They're being aggressive in effort to improve the Oline
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
RE: Not a bad deal. Not very expensive at all and the Giants
The Johnny Anonymous book, authored by another former Michigan guard, it’s hard for a lineman to join during or just prior to the season and pick up the playbook, naming conventions and develop chemistry with fellow line mates. So while this may or may not be a good trade, I am curbing my expectations that he is going to make an impact this year even if he is a hard worker
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
Ravens have impending salary issues and if they were not going to be able to keep Bredeson why not get something for him rather than cut him for nothing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Throwing shit against the wall now
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
When you’re doing it every year at the same position that’s a problem.
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
When you’re doing it every year at the same position that’s a problem.
Nobody was talking about every year. His post was about the current year and specifically these trades.
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Looks to me they have improved their roster...and remember teams are now looking to trade and finalize their roster.
A few weeks ago, teams are reluctant to trade and want to get thru the preseason in regard to injuries.
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
We give a 4th and get a 5th plus a 7th in 23
Giants gave up a pick likely to be high in the 4th round and get back a 5th that is likely to be low in the 5th round. So considering comp picks, the picks are likely to be about 30 spots apart or more.
that trade makes sense for both sides. Ravens get a 4th round pick to do over, but also give up some lower picks to offset some of the asset loss.
good aggressive move by the giants. I've said this in several posts but for all the talk about the great browns OL, the best move they made (other than hiring Callahan) was trading for Wyatt Teller from the Bills, on cutdown day, when he'd only made 7 starts having been a 5th round pick the year prior. They gave up 5th + 6th round picks for Teller + a 7th....
Eric, hope you're right in the comp, but did you read Ravens' fans' take on Bredeson replying to the Schefter tweet on the trade? Granted Bredeson didn't play much and that portion of the fan base who commented might not be the best takes...but pretty grim, he was going to be a cut, like Price. I'm with Googs and others on how poorly our GM has addressed job 1.
Likely in the 125-130 range, For likely late 6th via KC, almost a 7th in 22, and the Ravens 7th in 23, also likely a late pick, and Bredeson.
Pretty good.
The Giants aren't going to carry 4 tackles. If they add one now, what do they do? Cut Peart? Cut Solder? Unless we've totally had smoke blown up our asses about Peart, he doesn't clear waivers and make the PS.
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
100% agree. This whole team is his now with the exception of Shepard and Engram who Reese picked. How many years does he need to rebuild a line? Isn’t that supposed to be his claim to fame? I mean they basically jettisoned every backup lineman they have had through the whole offseason, camp, and preseason to bring a bunch of new guys in via trade a week and a half before the season starts. Are we going to have to hear the continuity excuse again this year because these new guys haven’t had time to gel as a unit?
This is why the Toney pick is a head scratcher to me. I hope the guy ends up being good obviously, but the early drama with him is concerning. They were probably better served drafting an offensive lineman in round 1. It feels like they got fixated on adding a WR early after missing out on Smith and after a few trades down settled on Toney.
Sorry, rant over lol.
RE: RE: Giants traded for two better interior OL prospects
than the players they had in-house. Now, let's see who sticks, can Hernandez earn a second contract, and can one of these guys unseat Gates at C.
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
This is well said. Again, the Giants could have sat at 11 and drafted a strong OL prospect in AVT or Slater, they opted for the trade down and additional 2022 first.
Bad feet, and quickness, and not athletic coming out of college scouting report.
but the fact is that gettleman has failed spectacularly in revamping the offensive line despite dumping tons of resources into it since FA 2018, despite identifying it as the key unit of weakness of the 2017 team that won three games. just pathetic.
the lines he has trotted out have arguably looked worse than the OL reese and ross put together post-2012 featuring the likes of richburg, pugh, flowers, jerry, schwartz and newhouse.
RE: RE: Not a bad deal. Not very expensive at all and the Giants
The Giants aren't going to carry 4 tackles. If they add one now, what do they do? Cut Peart? Cut Solder? Unless we've totally had smoke blown up our asses about Peart, he doesn't clear waivers and make the PS.
.
I am not sure you can't find a guard/tackle on the waiver wire.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Throwing shit against the wall now
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
If a team actually has more quality guys at a position than they can carry, yes, they say please take our good Olineman for a price so that we don't have to cut him for nothing.
all through camp and the joint practices the theme from the beats was that the starting OL was playing pretty well, especially Thomas but that the backups looked horrendous. so all along the thought was that the giants would be looking to improve that depth. it should be no surprise that they went out and made moves like the ones we've seen the past 2 days. it doesn't necessarily mean that the entire organization just realized that the starting OL sucks cause of one bad quarter in a preseason game. maybe the line will be terrible, but lets see it play out first. these moves aren't proof of anything other than that our backups sucked after looney and fulton retired. this has been known and talked about here for 3-4 weeks now.
The incompetence + arrogance with Gettleman is brutal
and I am happy for that, but you cannot ignore the reality that this management team has repeatedly failed to fix the OL. That is different than saying they have not tried to fix it. Clearly efforts have been made, but the results have been poor.
Bredeson is only 22, so he should have some upside
Ravens have impending salary issues and if they were not going to be able to keep Bredeson why not get something for him rather than cut him for nothing.
Mike, as a 4h rounder last year--and I don't know what he's on the books for--but it may be the caliber of his play rather than $$ due that prompted the trade. Trying to look on the dark side (:
Has any Giants GM made as many trades as Gettleman?
Ravens have impending salary issues and if they were not going to be able to keep Bredeson why not get something for him rather than cut him for nothing.
Mike, as a 4h rounder last year--and I don't know what he's on the books for--but it may be the caliber of his play rather than $$ due that prompted the trade. Trying to look on the dark side (:
The salary issue isn't so much for this year as it is dead weight in future years as Lamar Jackson, Marquise Brown, etc. need decisions on contracts. Bredeson does not impact much with a trade.
The Johnny Anonymous book, authored by another former Michigan guard, it’s hard for a lineman to join during or just prior to the season and pick up the playbook, naming conventions and develop chemistry with fellow line mates. So while this may or may not be a good trade, I am curbing my expectations that he is going to make an impact this year even if he is a hard worker
Well, with all due respect to that author, I do not agree with that assessment.
Part of this is due to signing 2 competent OL in free agency who decided to retire at 31 and 29 years old in Looney and Fulton. You are not expecting that to happen.
If Lemieux is healthy, you have your 8 dressed OL on game days
Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, Peary, Solder, Price and Bredeson
RE: RE: RE: RE: Not a bad deal. Not very expensive at all and the Giants
When DG dumpster dives for O line support knowing his current line means more losing games in ‘21 to add to his current 10 and 30 record. If a set of pads can be fitted with airbags, panicky danny needs them!
Well, we're certainly going to have to curse a whole lot more
You can like it and at the same time think DG is a lousy GM.
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
Googs - I’ll serve with pride. (But I stand by my comment. Why do we even think DG is behind these moves?)
I know you won't let us down Cosmic.
As for the moves, there is a little-known codicil in the NY Giant constitution which gives the GM unlimited power to preserve order in time of franchise emergency. The time has come for someone to put their foot down. And that foot is DG...
All these late OL maneuverings should make Daniel Jones
Yup. One year in the league and drafted in the 4th last year.
Untapped potential. I hope Sale and Judge can find it.
He was drafted just ahead of Lemieux. I wonder if he's the guy the Giants really wanted in the 4th.
Either Bredeson or Danny Pinter - now C/G and rt/te in college (son of a friend) who was picked immediately before Sean. Danny is backup C for the Colts; (but he just hurt his foot).
You can like it and at the same time think DG is a lousy GM.
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
Googs - I’ll serve with pride. (But I stand by my comment. Why do we even think DG is behind these moves?)
I know you won't let us down Cosmic.
As for the moves, there is a little-known codicil in the NY Giant constitution which gives the GM unlimited power to preserve order in time of franchise emergency. The time has come for someone to put their foot down. And that foot is DG...
Man, you really would have nailed it if you slipped in the Tony Soprano "since time immemorial"
1) Starter is currently injured
2) 2 of their back up Oline retired unexpectedly
I'm not a DG fan by any stretch (I want him out of here) but these moves are in response to the above and in that, they're doing the right thing. So stop the bitch fest, please. We know the line is the weakness. This is exactly what they SHOULD be doing.
I don't think anyone is arguing that they shouldn't be doing what they are doing.
The reaction is due to the concept that it's very telling that this is where they are, and that they should not be in this position. (Keep it in context - we are now entering year 4 since the new regime acknowleged that the OL was a major issue)
Sure, an injury. Who doesn't have those? And we can bicker back and forth about to what extent the blame lies with the org for having any level of reliance on players who we evidently in such physical (or mental) shape that the early days of camp had them hanging up the cleats.
But let's not ignore that the 3 OTs not included in the above have looked like complete turnstiles at every instance we (fans writ large) have had a chance to observe.
Is there really not any good reason for some hand-wringing? Remember where you are -- you're on a NYG message board. It's tempting to believe that all of the "bitching" is by rabid lunatics roaming around in their real lives uttering the things they type here under their breaths...
but really, people are here expressing concern (and sure, that may be putting it lightly) about their favorite team on a message board specifically created for.....wait for it.....discussion about their favorite team. It's not that crazy if you think about it.
Maybe we wouldn’t be giving future draft picks?!! Stupid GM.. trying to figure out how this guy still is employed… smh.
I’m sorry but this is infuriating and fucking annoying seriously dude what the fuck do you know about drafting or any of this. DG did what he is supposed to do, he saw a weakness and addressed it. Would you rather he takes the JR route and do nothin. Fuck your feelings and fuck this post.
Some of you I really just want to meet in person and see what fucking Bubble life you live in.
RE: RE: They're being aggressive in effort to improve the Oline
I'm in favor of that. Now did we make the right moves? We'll have to see on that, but intention I'm good with.
.
Yep, time will tell, but after watching this preseason,
heck they could not stand pat. They are making the effort.
Agreed that our Oline is not good. What I don’t understand is taking their efforts to improve it as opportunity to improve it. That’s what we should WANT them to do.
RE: RE: RE: They're being aggressive in effort to improve the Oline
I'm in favor of that. Now did we make the right moves? We'll have to see on that, but intention I'm good with.
.
Yep, time will tell, but after watching this preseason,
heck they could not stand pat. They are making the effort.
Agreed that our Oline is not good. What I don’t understand is taking their efforts to improve it as opportunity to improve it. That’s what we should WANT them to do.
And I seem to recall JJs response to questions about Thomas following the game implicating others as well. You have to wonder if the LG was part of the issue there.
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
We gave up a 4th round pick to get a guy drafted last year in the 4th round - and we got a 5th and 7th back to boot. That doesn't sound so bad to me.
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
We gave up a 4th round pick to get a guy drafted last year in the 4th round - and we got a 5th and 7th back to boot. That doesn't sound so bad to me.
You are too logical here, Ira. And even though you simply drew it for everyone to see, guess what? Many still won’t get it.
Oooops, me bad…I was reading too quickly. Thanks Bill.
Hey, I just read this about our new guard from the Ravens…. PFF College named him the best pass-blocking guard in the country in 2019, with 451 snaps spent in pass protection. In those snaps, he allowed zero hits, and zero sacks.
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
We gave up a 4th round pick to get a guy drafted last year in the 4th round - and we got a 5th and 7th back to boot. That doesn't sound so bad to me.
You are too logical here, Ira. And even though you simply drew it for everyone to see, guess what? Many still won’t get it.
HELLO PEOPLE, SHANE LEMIEUX HAS A TORN PEC!
Remember when you kept posting about not extending Shepard AFTER the Giants had extended Shepard?
This and the Price trade tells you about what they think of their OL, which tells you about the quality of their planning process.
Who said they had a plan? It was all just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then get another handful and repeat.
Belichik does this with the back half of his roster as well. And it's part of the reason they consistently have one of the stronger 53s top to bottom in football (including prioritizing the middle and back half at the expense of the top at times).
A football season is a gauntlet and war of attrition, cutting losses and seeing if you can improve the back half is always worth it. Never know what you'll find.
RE: RE: RE: I don't know if it's a good trade or not
This and the Price trade tells you about what they think of their OL, which tells you about the quality of their planning process.
Who said they had a plan? It was all just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then get another handful and repeat.
Belichik does this with the back half of his roster as well. And it's part of the reason they consistently have one of the stronger 53s top to bottom in football (including prioritizing the middle and back half at the expense of the top at times).
A football season is a gauntlet and war of attrition, cutting losses and seeing if you can improve the back half is always worth it. Never know what you'll find.
I think that their take home is the Belichik sucks.
made me laugh out loud. They draft 3 young guys to develop and build around. Supplement that with seasoned vet FA in the off-season to back them up and that is gross negligence. Someone needs to open Webster’s Unabridged for the definition.
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
made me laugh out loud. They draft 3 young guys to develop and build around. Supplement that with seasoned vet FA in the off-season to back them up and that is gross negligence. Someone needs to open Webster’s Unabridged for the definition.
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
It will certainly be a tough choice, but I think the organization needs to make a decision on Peart. If they believe he's the guy, they need to throw him in there and let him learn his lessons. Give him some backup with a TE or RB to keep Jones alive. But sitting him for Solder, and thinking he's going to grow in practice, is a mistake, imho
They have young guys with good draft pedigree and upside on the roster.
They've gone from the known trash to the unknown but still potentially trash.
At least there is no more journeymen JAGS like Slade, Harrison, and Larsen. No UDFA's forced into big roles (besides Gates but he has proven to be a good option and is on his second contract because of it)
In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
made me laugh out loud. They draft 3 young guys to develop and build around. Supplement that with seasoned vet FA in the off-season to back them up and that is gross negligence. Someone needs to open Webster’s Unabridged for the definition.
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
The jokes on you with the underwhelming talent and “pups” development. DG has had four years to fix the line and it’s still our achilles heel. The same GM who couldn’t protect Eli who fundamentally makes the same mistakes with Jones. Shit talent evaluation
It’s amazing that moves are made to improve the team
Who at least were drafted (one in the first round no less). The OL looks like it has much more depth and looks to be young and trainable across the board. They need to improve but they certainly are capable of that. They are going to end up being fine. Jones looks good, one mistake notwithstanding. They have weapons that nobody has seen yet. This is going to be a very good team.
RE: I mean, we replaced back end guys with players
Who at least were drafted (one in the first round no less). The OL looks like it has much more depth and looks to be young and trainable across the board. They need to improve but they certainly are capable of that. They are going to end up being fine. Jones looks good, one mistake notwithstanding. They have weapons that nobody has seen yet. This is going to be a very good team.
thumbs up Bill L
Let's at least wait and see, the two new Gs seem like an upgrade
In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
His young son was diagnosed with cancer. He was never the same after that, understandably.
Solder anchored two Super Bowl championship lines in New England after his son was diagnosed. He also got a testicle removed and came back that season.
I won’t pretend to understand what his family life is like and what impact it’s had on him, but it feels like a discredit to what he’s achieved to pin his recent bad play on his son’s health.
Solder is a bad ass father, and by all accounts a great man. But he’s not been very good at football at all in his time as a Giant.
Solder's a mystery. We overpaid as you sometimes have to do in free
You would think a fanbase in desperate need to acquire OL help would be happy when their team brings in young talent.. Fellas team building and roster improvements don't just happen at the start of free agency and the draft. Acquiring players near preseason's end has always been a part of the process for every team. Yes, these additions should've been made earlier in the offseason but why cry over spilled milk? Especially when as a fan you don't know what's happening behind closed doors.
I think you will all like Bredeson and Price. The interior is much improved.
You would think a fanbase in desperate need to acquire OL help would be happy when their team brings in young talent.. Fellas team building and roster improvements don't just happen at the start of free agency and the draft. Acquiring players near preseason's end has always been a part of the process for every team. Yes, these additions should've been made earlier in the offseason but why cry over spilled milk? Especially when as a fan you don't know what's happening behind closed doors.
I think you will all like Bredeson and Price. The interior is much improved.
Well - this website isn’t a fan site anymore to discuss the Giants it’s a site to trash the individuals who run the team. So your post and other logical/insightful comments don’t come around that often anymore. Appreciate your commentary though, enjoy the season
In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
Brady and Gronkowski cover up a lot of deficiencies. That is why I am still skeptical about Wirfs.
But here's the thing: We have a LOT of things that have to go right in order for us to have a good offensive line. Here's the stuff we're counting on
1) Two of Thomas, Peart and Solder have to not suck
2) Gates has to be good again.
3) Hernandez has to continue the improvement he's shown this summer
4) Lemieux's knee has to hold up
5) Billy Price has to not be a bust
6) This new guy has to be starting caliber, with little to go on but his work at Michigan.
And right now, the only thing we can reasonably be confident about is Gates. Everyone else is a question mark. We may cycle through those questions and settle on a solid line out of this group. But unless they get it right week one, it's gonna be fucking bumpy. It's disappointing that we're still here, completely unsettled, after spending money and high draft picks. Solder has under performed his contract. Thomas, Hernandez and Peart have been incredibly inconsistent. Lemieux is hurt. The two new guys are one potential high draft pick bust and one completely unproven guard. The only stable piece is our UDFA center, who is legitimately a solid player.
There's a chance that all these pieces come together and we have a solid line this year. But there's an equal chance that we're doing this bullshit all over again next year too (with a new GM).
These two moves by DG were BRILLIANT. Unexpectedly he had two retirements and one injured guard to deal with, and he got us Price and Bredeson is pretty impressive. I don’t know enough about either player but their resume gives me hope at least.
Losing LOONEY was huge because he is starter proven, but DG has done the best he could for now. I don’t think he is finished either.
As for our tackle positions…between Thomas, Peart, and Solder, they will have to do. We have two OL coaches teaching them how to be great, so I’m not going to give up on two guys who haven’t been in the league more than one year. I’m sorry, but these guys are not hopeless and incapable to learn. So, I choose to take the optimistic course here, but if anyone wants to trash our team just because it feels good to do that, so be it. GO GIANTS!
by no means did I say the moves were brilliant. But we have to see how they play out.
The Reese era would have put out the same OL every practice and every game even though 4/5 of the starters were awful. At least this new regime is always looking to find the best 5 with the guys we have and find some creative trades to bring in some players that appear to have some talent.
Yeah, if the OL still sucks then as I said, the plan didn’t work. But our starting LG has a legit knee injury and clearly the back ups weren’t cutting it. Anyone who wouldn’t want our front office and HC to try and improve competition based on that stuff happening isn’t being very fair.
When you hear about how there really aren't any fans that
But here's the thing: We have a LOT of things that have to go right in order for us to have a good offensive line. Here's the stuff we're counting on
1) Two of Thomas, Peart and Solder have to not suck
2) Gates has to be good again.
3) Hernandez has to continue the improvement he's shown this summer
4) Lemieux's knee has to hold up
5) Billy Price has to not be a bust
6) This new guy has to be starting caliber, with little to go on but his work at Michigan.
And right now, the only thing we can reasonably be confident about is Gates. Everyone else is a question mark. We may cycle through those questions and settle on a solid line out of this group. But unless they get it right week one, it's gonna be fucking bumpy. It's disappointing that we're still here, completely unsettled, after spending money and high draft picks. Solder has under performed his contract. Thomas, Hernandez and Peart have been incredibly inconsistent. Lemieux is hurt. The two new guys are one potential high draft pick bust and one completely unproven guard. The only stable piece is our UDFA center, who is legitimately a solid player.
There's a chance that all these pieces come together and we have a solid line this year. But there's an equal chance that we're doing this bullshit all over again next year too (with a new GM).
#1 and #4 are the big questions, though I'm confident Thomas will develop into at least an average LT. Not so confident in Peart/Solder and I have no idea what to expect from Lemieux.
I'm not worried about #2, I think Gates is legit.
#3 - Hernandez has played at a competent (slightly below average to average) level before, he just needs to do it consistently. Even better if his offseason work and switch to the right side help him take the next step.
#5/6 - these are really insurance against #3-4 and if Hernandez can develop into a solid RG, then we only need one of these guys to "hit" in case Lemieux can't go. Frankly, even if Lemieux is healthy, it'd be nice if these 2 pushed him for a starting spot.
Best case long term might be Hernandez having a breakout season and the Giants liking Bredeson. Then they can let Hernandez walk (always leery of contract year breakouts), slide Bredeson into the rotation and add depth via the draft.
If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Well, they could have taken on his current contract and then immediately converted a large chunk of his salary to bonus, along with an extension to spread that out in a manner that would probably come pretty close to replicating his UFA contract.
Obviously the Giants had a different POV on their in-house OL corps at that time than they do now (and the most significant change is Lemieux's injury, of course), so this hypothetical trade still wouldn't have happened. But KZ's contract probably wouldn't have been an insurmountable obstacle to it.
for having signed Looney and the other OG as Street FAs, only to see them both retire, doesn't wash with me. No one can have any idea as to the level of their play had they not retired. They were available for a reason, just as Price and Bredeson were, just as all the trash Gettelman had acquired and cut yesterday were.
The fact remains they were signed because Gettelman's record at identifying capable, potential NFL OL starters continued to be dreadful. So many mid-round draftees step right in as capable starters, along with Day 1 and Day 2 picks, yet our #4 overall continues to struggle, and with Peart we just don't know. His FA OL signings have been very poor (Zeitler the exception, and he was dealt).
Fans *wanted to believe*--I get it, so did I--the guys would somehow redeem or at least mitigate the OL's deficiencies, but how has Gettelman's 'eye for OL talent' worked out so far?
At this point, the ol that are playing well are Gates and Hernandez -
The issue there is the effect on the line play during the time the Giants Brass realizes 3/4 is not working out and cycling in 5/6. It's good that they improved the depth but if Price and Bredeson end up the answers, it basically means that the line struggled with Hernandez and Lemieux and that's not ideal for our mistake prone QB.
The cost of all this uncertainty is the potential for bad OL play while the Giants cycle through the options they have trying to find the best 5 guys. How many games of bad play will it take before we figure out our 5 guys?
and people want to give Gettleman a pass because two JAG FAs, at best, he signed unexpectedly "retired". Fulton was horrible last year and Looney wasn't good either most recently and he lasted 5 days with the Giants.
The "DG" pom pom squad is pretending the Giants lost John Hannah and Mike Webster.
The Giants cut 7 OL yesterday. Every backup OL they've had in the off season program has been cut except Solder. Unbelievable.
RE: the meme that Gettelman is somehow to be lauded
for having signed Looney and the other OG as Street FAs, only to see them both retire, doesn't wash with me. No one can have any idea as to the level of their play had they not retired. They were available for a reason, just as Price and Bredeson were, just as all the trash Gettelman had acquired and cut yesterday were.
The fact remains they were signed because Gettelman's record at identifying capable, potential NFL OL starters continued to be dreadful. So many mid-round draftees step right in as capable starters, along with Day 1 and Day 2 picks, yet our #4 overall continues to struggle, and with Peart we just don't know. His FA OL signings have been very poor (Zeitler the exception, and he was dealt).
Fans *wanted to believe*--I get it, so did I--the guys would somehow redeem or at least mitigate the OL's deficiencies, but how has Gettelman's 'eye for OL talent' worked out so far?
I'm not going to wax poetic about Looney or Fulton but I have to believe they'd have been a lot better than Wiggins/Slade/etc. Looney and Fulton have started games for other teams and the others were practices squaders or street FA for a reason. they also clearly weren't irreplaceable talents or anything, and as such they have now been replaced.
re: the recent track record with OL, Hernandez stepped in as a day 1 starter and while he hasn't lived up to expectations for most of that period of time his play has been fine (and to my eye as a fan not demonstrably different than Zeitler - who too was fine but a disappointment based on prior rep as one of the best G's in the league). Gates and Lemieux looked like good finds.
The #1 problem with the OL the past 3 years has been the LT. Solder didn't solve it and Thomas had at best an up and down rookie year.
The #2 problem, which almost definitely has some relationship to the #1 problem, has been coaching. The guy Shurmur hired was and is of the league, as is Columbo.
It remains to be seen this year if either got fixed but on both Thomas and the new team of OL coaches I think Judge likely had the final say. the biggest mistake in the last 3 years was not just hiring Callahan at whatever the cost.
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Not sure where he was on depth chart this year, but started 0 games in 2020 according to link above.
Grade: 76
Summary: Senior entry from Hartland, Wisconsin. Four year starter that was 1st Team All Big 10 as a senior, 2nd Team as a junior and sophomore. A 2019 3rd Team All American. Bredeson started 46 games over his career and was a two time team captain. He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation. When it comes to physical ability and potential, he is limited but there is still a good chance he sees starter-duty at some point in his career. He will be in the league for a long time.
*You don’t see prospects coming out of big time programs like Michigan with 46 starts under their belt too often. Bredeson won’t be anyone’s favorite guard in the class but I bet he stays in the league as long as anyone on this list. There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
honestly these are exactly the types of adds I'm happy to see them make. Browns got Wyatt teller in exactly this type of move.
and they have the benefit of seeing them on tape in preseason. As long as it's a day 3 pick im good with this move.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
The Bears’ first…
Ralph Vacchiano
@RVacchianoSNY
·
28s
Ben Brederson is 6-5, 315 and was a fourth-round pick last year in Baltimore. He played pretty well during the preseason, I'm told, but was an odd-man out on a pretty stacked Ravens offensive line.
Quote:
did we give up?
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
The Bears’ first…
Dave said no big deal. He has another first to throw away.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
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So Bredeson is a good run blocker but a poor pass blocker and Price is a poor pass blocker but a good run blocker…
Maybe we’re going to combine the two to make one complete LG
He hasn't made any starts. Only one season, but still.
Sy's write up prior to 2020 draft:
Ben Bredeson / Michigan / 6’5 – 315
Grade: 76
Summary: Senior entry from Hartland, Wisconsin. Four year starter who was 1st Team All Big 10 as a senior, 2nd Team as a junior and sophomore. A 2019 3rd Team All American. Bredeson started 46 games over his career and was a two time team captain. He is on the higher end of experience, toughness, and on-field intelligence. He is rarely caught doing something he shouldn’t be doing when it comes to technique and he always seems to know how to respond to any situation. When it comes to physical ability and potential, he is limited but there is still a good chance he sees starter-duty at some point in his career. He will be in the league for a long time.
*You don’t see prospects coming out of big time programs like Michigan with 46 starts under their belt too often. Bredeson won’t be anyone’s favorite guard in the class but I bet he stays in the league as long as anyone on this list. There may be a chance he moves to center, as some teams are worried about his length shortcoming but they respect his intelligence and grit.
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
Probably our 6th for BB and their 7th
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
How do you compare his NFL play to Price to date?
Makes sense. It is about upgrading the backups too. Another young guy with probable versatility.
Yep.
Just mentioned same. Was there an potential IR comment with him lately?
Quote:
did we give up?
Not surprised. Any decent OL subject to waivers would have likely been picked before our waiver wire claim status, and vested veterans who are cut can sign with anyone. You want someone, you have to trade for them.
Probably our 6th for BB and their 7th
Pretty much what Adam Schefter tweeted
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✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Ben Bredeson became more expendable to the Ravens because during the offseason they signed...
... Kevin Zeitler.
Quote:
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
How do you compare his NFL play to Price to date?
Price has played 1,353 snaps
Bredeson has played 48
Can't compare on the pro level
They still have an extra 4th if something better becomes available
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Ben Bredeson became more expendable to the Ravens because during the offseason they signed...
... Kevin Zeitler.
haha
nice pot shot...
Quote:
In comment 15348548 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Old school, Big 10 type. Blue collar that Michigan coaches loved having in the room. Works hard, plays hard, quality run blocker.
Talent and physical potential isn't very good. Gets a little heavy and too hand-dependent. Short arms, I projected him to eventually move to OC. Could be a guy that sticks in league beyond rookie deal.
How do you compare his NFL play to Price to date?
Price has played 1,353 snaps
Bredeson has played 48
Can't compare on the pro level
When you add in the fact that Price is on the last year of his deal I would assume they hope Price can compete for a starting spot now while Bredeson may be more of a developmental guy who will be a better backup than they currently have.
When you add in the fact that Price is on the last year of his deal I would assume they hope Price can compete for a starting spot now while Bredeson may be more of a developmental guy who will be a better backup than they currently have.
Bredeson probably starts out as the top backup at G and C.
No. That was just Schefter being inarticulate. The fourth round pick he was referring to was Bredeson being drafted in that round.
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Price has played 1,353 snaps
Bredeson has played 48
Can't compare on the pro level
Gotcha. Didn’t realize Bredeson hasn’t played.
They still have an extra 4th if something better becomes available
That's fine.
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
That seems like a bit much???
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Compensation update:
🏈Giants get: Chiefs’ 5th-round pick acquired in the Orlando Brown trade, a 7-th round pick in ‘23 and former Ravens’ guard Ben Bredeson.
🏈Ravens get: Giants’ 4th-round for pick in ‘22.
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You read it wrong. The Giants are getting the 5th and 7th
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
This is like the equivilent of like a 5th rounder. I'm good with it, they have to start throwing shit against the wall with the position they're in.
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
No they traded a 4th for Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th.
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
Please let this be wrong
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
That’s all?
Cripes
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
that looks like the Giants get the 6th and 7th
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You are reading that wrong.
Ravens Get
2022 4th Round pick
Giants Get
Ben Bredeson
2022 5th Round pick
2023 7th Round pick
✔
@TomRock_Newsday
Ben Bredeson became more expendable to the Ravens because during the offseason they signed...
... Kevin Zeitler.
Damn beatwriter beat me to my joke!
Giants get Bredeson, a 5th, 7th
Ravens get a 4th
Quote:
In comment 15348610 Sean said:
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
No they traded a 4th for Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th.
Ah thank you
Quote:
In comment 15348610 Sean said:
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
that looks like the Giants get the 6th and 7th
5th
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
Or are they getting the ravens 5th and 7th for our 4th. That’s how I read it.
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
I think you are reading this wrong.
Ravens get: 1 4th Rounder
Giants get: 1 Ben Bredeson, 1 5th rounder, 1 7th rounder
co-sign this take
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
I read that as
Bredesen
5th
7th
In return for
4th
Quote:
In comment 15348610 Sean said:
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Wow. I was wrong. That is much too much for Bredeson. A fourth, a fifth, and a seventh.
You are reading that wrong.
Ravens Get
2022 4th Round pick
Giants Get
Ben Bredeson
2022 5th Round pick
2023 7th Round pick
You're right. My bad. Eyes are tired.
This makes me feel a bit better. The question is now...are Price and Bredeson good?
Regardless, props to the FO for seeing there was a weakness and going out and addressing it via trades.
He needs to start wearing a bandaid on the bridge of his nose.
They still have an extra 4th if something better becomes available
I said yesterday, scour the waiver wire for depth,
a trade works as well... I like the move, young depth.
It's not somebody like a Larsen for example.
that trade makes sense for both sides. Ravens get a 4th round pick to do over, but also give up some lower picks to offset some of the asset loss.
good aggressive move by the giants. I've said this in several posts but for all the talk about the great browns OL, the best move they made (other than hiring Callahan) was trading for Wyatt Teller from the Bills, on cutdown day, when he'd only made 7 starts having been a 5th round pick the year prior. They gave up 5th + 6th round picks for Teller + a 7th.
with Beane being Buffalo's GM I wonder if that was a deal the NYG passed on at the time and are now trying to learn from their mistake.
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
So that gives us:
Thomas
Lemieux
Gates
Hernandez
Peart
Solder
Price
Bredeson
That's about as much as we could have hoped for right now.
Lol
Let's play ball...
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Oops, I missread it also! I’m ok with the trade now.
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
We give a 4th and get a 5th plus a 7th in 23
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
Calm down. Take a deep breath. Read slowly. Sound out the words.
Giants are getting Bredeson, a 5th, and a 7th. They are giving up only a 4th.
Was just going to post "Go Blue" and then I'd forgotten this fact...
Which one is it?
So that gives us:
Thomas
Lemieux
Gates
Hernandez
Peart
Solder
Price
Bredeson
That's about as much as we could have hoped for right now.
Yeah, I would have gladly signed up for that after watching the backups in the preseason games. It's not great but it is better than it was.
Which one is it?
Which ever one upsets the most posters...
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
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So as far as I'm concerned, he's Brad Benson.
He needs to start wearing a bandaid on the bridge of his nose.
And a dog named Dexter
Complaining that we got what seems a starting caliber OG and an extra pick.
Wow…
✔
@AdamSchefter
Compensation update:
🏈Giants get: Chiefs’ 5th-round pick acquired in the Orlando Brown trade, a 7-th round pick in ‘23 and former Ravens’ guard Ben Bredeson.
🏈Ravens get: Giants’ 4th-round for pick in ‘22.
The fact that he was acquired by Getty should temper that :)
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
This is well said. Again, the Giants could have sat at 11 and drafted a strong OL prospect in AVT or Slater, they opted for the trade down and additional 2022 first.
JFC
✔
@AdamSchefter
Compensation update:
🏈Giants get: Chiefs’ 5th-round pick acquired in the Orlando Brown trade, a 7-th round pick in ‘23 and former Ravens’ guard Ben Bredeson.
🏈Ravens get: Giants’ 4th-round for pick in ‘22.
Jordan Raanan saying this too!
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
But they have the Bears 4th next year I believe,
in switching positions in the first round this year.
I believe it was a 1st and 4th.
Reminds me of the Shockey trade :)
Please read the trade details The Giants get Bredeson AND a 6th and 7th round pick for a 4th round pick.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
Quote:
Bredeson is competing to start. He was picked ahead of Shane Lemiuex.
Please read the trade details The Giants get Bredeson AND a 6th and 7th round pick for a 4th round pick.
It’s a 5th, not a 6th
Quote:
but its gotta concern everyone that the giants clearly don't like there O-line again and this was suppose to be fixed years ago!
Our starting OG is young and hurt and missed time he needed. And we had 2 backups retire.
I get it but both are tackles had DJ taking shots all game on Sunday. You can't have a lot of confidence in this line going into the year.
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
even if hernandez manages to play well he's not worth a second contract. the dude has sucked ass and suddenly lost weight in his contract year. i don't care if he plays really well, they should not entertain the thought giving him a second contract
Yep, time will tell, but after watching this preseason,
heck they could not stand pat. They are making the effort.
Sounds like the 5th round pick is one the Ravens previously acquired from the Chiefs.
They are getting the 5th rd pick that the Ravens acquired from the chiefs for Orlando Brown
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In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
Let's play ball...
Dude. This is like the 5th positive post I have seen from you in the last 2 days. What's going on brutha, you feeling ok?
:)
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
Do they try and add a tackle?
Quote:
In comment 15348702 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
Ravens have impending salary issues and if they were not going to be able to keep Bredeson why not get something for him rather than cut him for nothing.
Quote:
In comment 15348702 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
When you’re doing it every year at the same position that’s a problem.
Quote:
So Bredeson is a good run blocker but a poor pass blocker and Price is a poor pass blocker but a good run blocker…
Maybe we’re going to combine the two to make one complete LG
Huh? So maybe the Giants are only going to run and neither needs to be a pass blocker. Is that what this is saying?
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In comment 15348714 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15348702 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Well, first of all, that doesn't say anything about being "shit against the wall"
Secondly, is it really uncommon for teams to tweak, fine-tune or improve their lineups as other players shake free? They had people, some retired, evaluated the rest over the summer, found a chance to swap in better people.
When you’re doing it every year at the same position that’s a problem.
Nobody was talking about every year. His post was about the current year and specifically these trades.
Is that accurate? If so how Belichickian of them. Get a young player they desperately need and 2 picks back for the one they traded away.
It's way late in the process but at least they're trying to upgrade.
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
Looks to me they have improved their roster...and remember teams are now looking to trade and finalize their roster.
A few weeks ago, teams are reluctant to trade and want to get thru the preseason in regard to injuries.
Quote:
In comment 15348610 Sean said:
Quote:
Tom Pelissero
@TomPelissero
·
57s
Trade details: The #Giants are trading a 2022 fourth-round pick to the #Ravens for guard Ben Bredeson, a 2022 fifth-round pick and a 2023 seventh-round pick, per source.
Holy crap, a 4th and a 5th next year?! DG was put in this position because they miscalculated the Oline this off season! I sure hope this guy is the goods?! He appears to be decent in pass pro, but jeez!
We give a 4th and get a 5th plus a 7th in 23
Giants gave up a pick likely to be high in the 4th round and get back a 5th that is likely to be low in the 5th round. So considering comp picks, the picks are likely to be about 30 spots apart or more.
that trade makes sense for both sides. Ravens get a 4th round pick to do over, but also give up some lower picks to offset some of the asset loss.
good aggressive move by the giants. I've said this in several posts but for all the talk about the great browns OL, the best move they made (other than hiring Callahan) was trading for Wyatt Teller from the Bills, on cutdown day, when he'd only made 7 starts having been a 5th round pick the year prior. They gave up 5th + 6th round picks for Teller + a 7th....
Pretty good.
Do they try and add a tackle?
The Giants aren't going to carry 4 tackles. If they add one now, what do they do? Cut Peart? Cut Solder? Unless we've totally had smoke blown up our asses about Peart, he doesn't clear waivers and make the PS.
Do they try and add a tackle?
I would now scour the waiver wire, and pick up a tackle,
why not.
Quote:
In comment 15348670 Go Terps said:
Quote:
No way to enter a season. It is amazing Gettleman is employed.
Now you're intentionally trying to be a douche. What evaluative skills lead you to believe that we haven't better ourselves with these two trade with a modest give on our side?
How does having to go out and get two lineman two weeks before the season not concern you about Gettleman?
100% agree. This whole team is his now with the exception of Shepard and Engram who Reese picked. How many years does he need to rebuild a line? Isn’t that supposed to be his claim to fame? I mean they basically jettisoned every backup lineman they have had through the whole offseason, camp, and preseason to bring a bunch of new guys in via trade a week and a half before the season starts. Are we going to have to hear the continuity excuse again this year because these new guys haven’t had time to gel as a unit?
This is why the Toney pick is a head scratcher to me. I hope the guy ends up being good obviously, but the early drama with him is concerning. They were probably better served drafting an offensive lineman in round 1. It feels like they got fixated on adding a WR early after missing out on Smith and after a few trades down settled on Toney.
Sorry, rant over lol.
Quote:
than the players they had in-house. Now, let's see who sticks, can Hernandez earn a second contract, and can one of these guys unseat Gates at C.
While that's in play, try to create a similar competition at OT to push the prospects. No handing out jobs by default!
This is well said. Again, the Giants could have sat at 11 and drafted a strong OL prospect in AVT or Slater, they opted for the trade down and additional 2022 first.
Bad feet, and quickness, and not athletic coming out of college scouting report.
the lines he has trotted out have arguably looked worse than the OL reese and ross put together post-2012 featuring the likes of richburg, pugh, flowers, jerry, schwartz and newhouse.
Quote:
maybe grab a player from a team that knows how to build an Oline.
Let's play ball...
Dude. This is like the 5th positive post I have seen from you in the last 2 days. What's going on brutha, you feeling ok?
:)
They're not mine. Someone is changing names and putting these out there...
:-)
Quote:
All reports had him playing well beside PFF.
Do they try and add a tackle?
The Giants aren't going to carry 4 tackles. If they add one now, what do they do? Cut Peart? Cut Solder? Unless we've totally had smoke blown up our asses about Peart, he doesn't clear waivers and make the PS.
I am not sure you can't find a guard/tackle on the waiver wire.
my concern is any team worth a damn doesn't trade quality O-lineman because they are so important. Has any team said please take our good olineman, we just have too many!
If a team actually has more quality guys at a position than they can carry, yes, they say please take our good Olineman for a price so that we don't have to cut him for nothing.
Yup. One year in the league and drafted in the 4th last year.
Untapped potential. I hope Sale and Judge can find it.
:-)
Shit Googs. It wasn’t my turn to post under our shared handle. Sorry about that.
P.S. — Hi Bill L!
Quote:
.
Yup. One year in the league and drafted in the 4th last year.
Untapped potential. I hope Sale and Judge can find it.
He was drafted just ahead of Lemieux. I wonder if he's the guy the Giants really wanted in the 4th.
Quote:
Ravens have impending salary issues and if they were not going to be able to keep Bredeson why not get something for him rather than cut him for nothing.
Mike, as a 4h rounder last year--and I don't know what he's on the books for--but it may be the caliber of his play rather than $$ due that prompted the trade. Trying to look on the dark side (:
The salary issue isn't so much for this year as it is dead weight in future years as Lamar Jackson, Marquise Brown, etc. need decisions on contracts. Bredeson does not impact much with a trade.
Quote:
They're not mine. Someone is changing names and putting these out there...
:-)
Shit Googs. It wasn’t my turn to post under our shared handle. Sorry about that.
P.S. — Hi Bill L!
I know stuff.
Well, with all due respect to that author, I do not agree with that assessment.
If Lemieux is healthy, you have your 8 dressed OL on game days
Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, Peary, Solder, Price and Bredeson
Quote:
They're not mine. Someone is changing names and putting these out there...
:-)
Shit Googs. It wasn’t my turn to post under our shared handle. Sorry about that.
P.S. — Hi Bill L!
Okay, but get back on schedule. I got Mon-Wed; you take Thur-Sun; and the rest we will leave in the hands of the BBI Archivist...
Done.
Wait. What if we both don’t exist and we’re all really FatMan?
Let me ponder that some more...
Quote:
In comment 15348824 Ira said:
Quote:
.
Yup. One year in the league and drafted in the 4th last year.
Untapped potential. I hope Sale and Judge can find it.
He was drafted just ahead of Lemieux. I wonder if he's the guy the Giants really wanted in the 4th.
I had the same thought, might have been a guy they had a high grade on last year
Yeah, why stop now. You are probably right.
It's not as if there's only one reality - ( New Window )
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
honestly these are exactly the types of adds I'm happy to see them make. Browns got Wyatt teller in exactly this type of move.
.
Yeah but if Gettleman likes him, odds are he is terrible.
Who said they had a plan? It was all just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then get another handful and repeat.
Yeah. Bill B. makes trades every offseason. He's already made two this offseason. He must be a shitty planner.
Quote:
You can like it and at the same time think DG is a lousy GM.
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
Googs - I’ll serve with pride. (But I stand by my comment. Why do we even think DG is behind these moves?)
I mean, they had 2 guys they brought in to be backups retire which is a bit odd
Quote:
In comment 15348949 cosmicj said:
Quote:
You can like it and at the same time think DG is a lousy GM.
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
Googs - I’ll serve with pride. (But I stand by my comment. Why do we even think DG is behind these moves?)
I know you won't let us down Cosmic.
As for the moves, there is a little-known codicil in the NY Giant constitution which gives the GM unlimited power to preserve order in time of franchise emergency. The time has come for someone to put their foot down. And that foot is DG...
Quote:
In comment 15348824 Ira said:
Quote:
.
Yup. One year in the league and drafted in the 4th last year.
Untapped potential. I hope Sale and Judge can find it.
He was drafted just ahead of Lemieux. I wonder if he's the guy the Giants really wanted in the 4th.
Either Bredeson or Danny Pinter - now C/G and rt/te in college (son of a friend) who was picked immediately before Sean. Danny is backup C for the Colts; (but he just hurt his foot).
Quote:
In comment 15348959 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15348949 cosmicj said:
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You can like it and at the same time think DG is a lousy GM.
No you cannot.
The good news is you have just be named Rush Chairman in the Gettleman Fan Club. Congrats!
Googs - I’ll serve with pride. (But I stand by my comment. Why do we even think DG is behind these moves?)
I know you won't let us down Cosmic.
As for the moves, there is a little-known codicil in the NY Giant constitution which gives the GM unlimited power to preserve order in time of franchise emergency. The time has come for someone to put their foot down. And that foot is DG...
Man, you really would have nailed it if you slipped in the Tony Soprano "since time immemorial"
1) Starter is currently injured
2) 2 of their back up Oline retired unexpectedly
I'm not a DG fan by any stretch (I want him out of here) but these moves are in response to the above and in that, they're doing the right thing. So stop the bitch fest, please. We know the line is the weakness. This is exactly what they SHOULD be doing.
The reaction is due to the concept that it's very telling that this is where they are, and that they should not be in this position. (Keep it in context - we are now entering year 4 since the new regime acknowleged that the OL was a major issue)
Sure, an injury. Who doesn't have those? And we can bicker back and forth about to what extent the blame lies with the org for having any level of reliance on players who we evidently in such physical (or mental) shape that the early days of camp had them hanging up the cleats.
But let's not ignore that the 3 OTs not included in the above have looked like complete turnstiles at every instance we (fans writ large) have had a chance to observe.
Is there really not any good reason for some hand-wringing? Remember where you are -- you're on a NYG message board. It's tempting to believe that all of the "bitching" is by rabid lunatics roaming around in their real lives uttering the things they type here under their breaths...
but really, people are here expressing concern (and sure, that may be putting it lightly) about their favorite team on a message board specifically created for.....wait for it.....discussion about their favorite team. It's not that crazy if you think about it.
I’m sorry but this is infuriating and fucking annoying seriously dude what the fuck do you know about drafting or any of this. DG did what he is supposed to do, he saw a weakness and addressed it. Would you rather he takes the JR route and do nothin. Fuck your feelings and fuck this post.
Some of you I really just want to meet in person and see what fucking Bubble life you live in.
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I'm in favor of that. Now did we make the right moves? We'll have to see on that, but intention I'm good with.
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Yep, time will tell, but after watching this preseason,
heck they could not stand pat. They are making the effort.
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In comment 15348697 UberAlias said:
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I'm in favor of that. Now did we make the right moves? We'll have to see on that, but intention I'm good with.
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Yep, time will tell, but after watching this preseason,
heck they could not stand pat. They are making the effort.
Agreed that our Oline is not good. What I don’t understand is taking their efforts to improve it as opportunity to improve it. That’s what we should WANT them to do.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
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If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
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In comment 15349133 Prude said:
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If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
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In comment 15349140 Section331 said:
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In comment 15349133 Prude said:
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If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
We gave up a 4th round pick to get a guy drafted last year in the 4th round - and we got a 5th and 7th back to boot. That doesn't sound so bad to me.
You are too logical here, Ira. And even though you simply drew it for everyone to see, guess what? Many still won’t get it.
HELLO PEOPLE, SHANE LEMIEUX HAS A TORN PEC!
I read 10 threads about tradea....with no thought to the cap.
Several better vet. players were cut today....that will get $$$$ that won't work the Giants
HELLO PEOPLE, SHANE LEMIEUX HAS A TORN PEC!
Patella is a kneecap, not a chest muscle :)
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HELLO PEOPLE, SHANE LEMIEUX HAS A TORN PEC!
Patella is a kneecap, not a chest muscle :)
Oooops, me bad…I was reading too quickly. Thanks Bill.
Hey, I just read this about our new guard from the Ravens…. PFF College named him the best pass-blocking guard in the country in 2019, with 451 snaps spent in pass protection. In those snaps, he allowed zero hits, and zero sacks.
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In comment 15349144 Prude said:
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In comment 15349140 Section331 said:
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In comment 15349133 Prude said:
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If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Yea i fully understand the cap stuff on both ends but it just looks so bad giving up a pick to get a camp cut 2 spots behind Zietler. Also if Z took a pay cut in Baltimore why not here?
We gave up a 4th round pick to get a guy drafted last year in the 4th round - and we got a 5th and 7th back to boot. That doesn't sound so bad to me.
You are too logical here, Ira. And even though you simply drew it for everyone to see, guess what? Many still won’t get it.
HELLO PEOPLE, SHANE LEMIEUX HAS A TORN PEC!
Remember when you kept posting about not extending Shepard AFTER the Giants had extended Shepard?
I think maybe read more, post less.
If it works out, who among us will give a fuck how it worked out? We just want it to work out.
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This and the Price trade tells you about what they think of their OL, which tells you about the quality of their planning process.
Who said they had a plan? It was all just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then get another handful and repeat.
Belichik does this with the back half of his roster as well. And it's part of the reason they consistently have one of the stronger 53s top to bottom in football (including prioritizing the middle and back half at the expense of the top at times).
A football season is a gauntlet and war of attrition, cutting losses and seeing if you can improve the back half is always worth it. Never know what you'll find.
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In comment 15348968 Go Terps said:
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This and the Price trade tells you about what they think of their OL, which tells you about the quality of their planning process.
Who said they had a plan? It was all just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks, then get another handful and repeat.
Belichik does this with the back half of his roster as well. And it's part of the reason they consistently have one of the stronger 53s top to bottom in football (including prioritizing the middle and back half at the expense of the top at times).
A football season is a gauntlet and war of attrition, cutting losses and seeing if you can improve the back half is always worth it. Never know what you'll find.
I think that their take home is the Belichik sucks.
Even when they had Solder, lol
We've either got some autocorrect or alcohol problems here, lol
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
Glad to hear it, lol
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So Bredeson is a good run blocker but a poor pass blocker and Price is a poor pass blocker but a good run blocker…
Maybe we’re going to combine the two to make one complete LG
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
It will certainly be a tough choice, but I think the organization needs to make a decision on Peart. If they believe he's the guy, they need to throw him in there and let him learn his lessons. Give him some backup with a TE or RB to keep Jones alive. But sitting him for Solder, and thinking he's going to grow in practice, is a mistake, imho
They have young guys with good draft pedigree and upside on the roster.
They've gone from the known trash to the unknown but still potentially trash.
At least there is no more journeymen JAGS like Slade, Harrison, and Larsen. No UDFA's forced into big roles (besides Gates but he has proven to be a good option and is on his second contract because of it)
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In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
It unraveled because of the retirements . Now, if gross negligence means DG should have had a crystal ball to foresee that- then you’re right. Or they his crystal ball would have told him his 3 draft picks aren’t the INSTANT pro bowlers everyone here demands they be- then yeah you’re right.
The “plan” was fine. The execution not so much.
OL evaluation in this organization has been lacking for a decade. That’s the biggest issue.
I’ll reserve my judgement until I see how this year plays out.
The jokes on you with the underwhelming talent and “pups” development. DG has had four years to fix the line and it’s still our achilles heel. The same GM who couldn’t protect Eli who fundamentally makes the same mistakes with Jones. Shit talent evaluation
thumbs up Bill L
Let's at least wait and see, the two new Gs seem like an upgrade
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In comment 15349330 Samiam said:
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In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
His young son was diagnosed with cancer. He was never the same after that, understandably.
I won’t pretend to understand what his family life is like and what impact it’s had on him, but it feels like a discredit to what he’s achieved to pin his recent bad play on his son’s health.
Solder is a bad ass father, and by all accounts a great man. But he’s not been very good at football at all in his time as a Giant.
I think you will all like Bredeson and Price. The interior is much improved.
I think you will all like Bredeson and Price. The interior is much improved.
Well - this website isn’t a fan site anymore to discuss the Giants it’s a site to trash the individuals who run the team. So your post and other logical/insightful comments don’t come around that often anymore. Appreciate your commentary though, enjoy the season
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In comment 15349330 Samiam said:
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In all the years that I’ve been watching football, i’ve never seen a BB coached team with an OL as weak as the Giants, not even close.
Even when they had Solder, lol
Crazy thing, the New England version of Solder was a guy you actually would throw a good chunk of change at and hope he helps solidify your line. Wonder what happened to that guy, he never showed up in New York
Brady and Gronkowski cover up a lot of deficiencies. That is why I am still skeptical about Wirfs.
1) Two of Thomas, Peart and Solder have to not suck
2) Gates has to be good again.
3) Hernandez has to continue the improvement he's shown this summer
4) Lemieux's knee has to hold up
5) Billy Price has to not be a bust
6) This new guy has to be starting caliber, with little to go on but his work at Michigan.
And right now, the only thing we can reasonably be confident about is Gates. Everyone else is a question mark. We may cycle through those questions and settle on a solid line out of this group. But unless they get it right week one, it's gonna be fucking bumpy. It's disappointing that we're still here, completely unsettled, after spending money and high draft picks. Solder has under performed his contract. Thomas, Hernandez and Peart have been incredibly inconsistent. Lemieux is hurt. The two new guys are one potential high draft pick bust and one completely unproven guard. The only stable piece is our UDFA center, who is legitimately a solid player.
There's a chance that all these pieces come together and we have a solid line this year. But there's an equal chance that we're doing this bullshit all over again next year too (with a new GM).
A.The OL has been a problem for almost a decade. They lose their games because of it.
B. Fans didn't have confidence in this OL before the draft and free agency. They were clamoring for them to address it and they didn't.
Losing LOONEY was huge because he is starter proven, but DG has done the best he could for now. I don’t think he is finished either.
As for our tackle positions…between Thomas, Peart, and Solder, they will have to do. We have two OL coaches teaching them how to be great, so I’m not going to give up on two guys who haven’t been in the league more than one year. I’m sorry, but these guys are not hopeless and incapable to learn. So, I choose to take the optimistic course here, but if anyone wants to trash our team just because it feels good to do that, so be it. GO GIANTS!
The Reese era would have put out the same OL every practice and every game even though 4/5 of the starters were awful. At least this new regime is always looking to find the best 5 with the guys we have and find some creative trades to bring in some players that appear to have some talent.
Yeah, if the OL still sucks then as I said, the plan didn’t work. But our starting LG has a legit knee injury and clearly the back ups weren’t cutting it. Anyone who wouldn’t want our front office and HC to try and improve competition based on that stuff happening isn’t being very fair.
remember this thread and the word "brilliant" being thrown around on his behalf...
1) Two of Thomas, Peart and Solder have to not suck
2) Gates has to be good again.
3) Hernandez has to continue the improvement he's shown this summer
4) Lemieux's knee has to hold up
5) Billy Price has to not be a bust
6) This new guy has to be starting caliber, with little to go on but his work at Michigan.
And right now, the only thing we can reasonably be confident about is Gates. Everyone else is a question mark. We may cycle through those questions and settle on a solid line out of this group. But unless they get it right week one, it's gonna be fucking bumpy. It's disappointing that we're still here, completely unsettled, after spending money and high draft picks. Solder has under performed his contract. Thomas, Hernandez and Peart have been incredibly inconsistent. Lemieux is hurt. The two new guys are one potential high draft pick bust and one completely unproven guard. The only stable piece is our UDFA center, who is legitimately a solid player.
There's a chance that all these pieces come together and we have a solid line this year. But there's an equal chance that we're doing this bullshit all over again next year too (with a new GM).
#1 and #4 are the big questions, though I'm confident Thomas will develop into at least an average LT. Not so confident in Peart/Solder and I have no idea what to expect from Lemieux.
I'm not worried about #2, I think Gates is legit.
#3 - Hernandez has played at a competent (slightly below average to average) level before, he just needs to do it consistently. Even better if his offseason work and switch to the right side help him take the next step.
#5/6 - these are really insurance against #3-4 and if Hernandez can develop into a solid RG, then we only need one of these guys to "hit" in case Lemieux can't go. Frankly, even if Lemieux is healthy, it'd be nice if these 2 pushed him for a starting spot.
Best case long term might be Hernandez having a breakout season and the Giants liking Bredeson. Then they can let Hernandez walk (always leery of contract year breakouts), slide Bredeson into the rotation and add depth via the draft.
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If the Giants traded Kevin Zietler for Ben Bredeson straight up they would have saved a pick and gotten to work with him all through camp.
And the fanbase would have lost it's mind. And rightly so.
Most of us knew Zietler was a likely cut, any trade for a warm body would have been welcomed. But that never would have worked for Balt since they would have had to fit KZ’s salary under their cap.
Well, they could have taken on his current contract and then immediately converted a large chunk of his salary to bonus, along with an extension to spread that out in a manner that would probably come pretty close to replicating his UFA contract.
Obviously the Giants had a different POV on their in-house OL corps at that time than they do now (and the most significant change is Lemieux's injury, of course), so this hypothetical trade still wouldn't have happened. But KZ's contract probably wouldn't have been an insurmountable obstacle to it.
The fact remains they were signed because Gettelman's record at identifying capable, potential NFL OL starters continued to be dreadful. So many mid-round draftees step right in as capable starters, along with Day 1 and Day 2 picks, yet our #4 overall continues to struggle, and with Peart we just don't know. His FA OL signings have been very poor (Zeitler the exception, and he was dealt).
Fans *wanted to believe*--I get it, so did I--the guys would somehow redeem or at least mitigate the OL's deficiencies, but how has Gettelman's 'eye for OL talent' worked out so far?
The cost of all this uncertainty is the potential for bad OL play while the Giants cycle through the options they have trying to find the best 5 guys. How many games of bad play will it take before we figure out our 5 guys?
The "DG" pom pom squad is pretending the Giants lost John Hannah and Mike Webster.
The Giants cut 7 OL yesterday. Every backup OL they've had in the off season program has been cut except Solder. Unbelievable.
The fact remains they were signed because Gettelman's record at identifying capable, potential NFL OL starters continued to be dreadful. So many mid-round draftees step right in as capable starters, along with Day 1 and Day 2 picks, yet our #4 overall continues to struggle, and with Peart we just don't know. His FA OL signings have been very poor (Zeitler the exception, and he was dealt).
Fans *wanted to believe*--I get it, so did I--the guys would somehow redeem or at least mitigate the OL's deficiencies, but how has Gettelman's 'eye for OL talent' worked out so far?
I'm not going to wax poetic about Looney or Fulton but I have to believe they'd have been a lot better than Wiggins/Slade/etc. Looney and Fulton have started games for other teams and the others were practices squaders or street FA for a reason. they also clearly weren't irreplaceable talents or anything, and as such they have now been replaced.
re: the recent track record with OL, Hernandez stepped in as a day 1 starter and while he hasn't lived up to expectations for most of that period of time his play has been fine (and to my eye as a fan not demonstrably different than Zeitler - who too was fine but a disappointment based on prior rep as one of the best G's in the league). Gates and Lemieux looked like good finds.
The #1 problem with the OL the past 3 years has been the LT. Solder didn't solve it and Thomas had at best an up and down rookie year.
The #2 problem, which almost definitely has some relationship to the #1 problem, has been coaching. The guy Shurmur hired was and is of the league, as is Columbo.
It remains to be seen this year if either got fixed but on both Thomas and the new team of OL coaches I think Judge likely had the final say. the biggest mistake in the last 3 years was not just hiring Callahan at whatever the cost.