It’s getting to be really annoying. People laughing at Daniel Jones, Gettleman, and Garrett mostly. Rebuilding year is what everyone is saying. I’ve had to turn off a ton a football podcast with guys just destroying the Giants. It’s pretty sad.
I think the Giants have the worst or second worst record in the league? Or maybe before the start of 2020 that was true. Either way, they deserve the complete lack of faith
The team I believe has had the worst record in football for the last 5 years, didn’t address its biggest deficiency in the offensive line (short of getting rid of its most consistent player), has a young qb who struggled last year and is turnover prone, and has most of its off season signings currently injured.
So yea the national media will be down on them snd you shouldn’t be annoyed by it. I personally think there is room for optimism and who knows we may be able to sneak into winning the division - but to be bothered by people not feeling that way is silly because they have been right 8 of the last 9 years.
The team I believe has had the worst record in football for the last 5 years, didn’t address its biggest deficiency in the offensive line (short of getting rid of its most consistent player), has a young qb who struggled last year and is turnover prone, and has most of its off season signings currently injured.
So yea the national media will be down on them snd you shouldn’t be annoyed by it. I personally think there is room for optimism and who knows we may be able to sneak into winning the division - but to be bothered by people not feeling that way is silly because they have been right 8 of the last 9 years.
Agreed for the last three years we’ve been getting these posts about how the Giants get no respect and they will quietly use that as fuel to dominate. Things are looking up this year but they still need to get it done.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
But I think some people are especially down because of all the injuries already this year. So many guys trying to come back from an injury to start the season, it’s going to be tough. We’ll see what they can do if they can get somewhat healthy.
watching espn and nfl network a lot of people picking Giants to win division, a lot may say it all depends on Jones and Oline but they arent laughing at rhe Giants
A franchise that has been absolutely inept for nearly a decade isn't getting any respect.
It's fine if you personally are optimistic about the Giants, but objectively, why the hell would you expect anyone who isn't a Giants fan to believe in them until they actually show something on the field?
Pretending that they were adding pieces for a final run with Eli. Year one of DG is really a result of Mara Ignoring/Refusing reality.
You cannot look at this roster and deny that there is more speed and talent and capability...it's the weak/yet to be finished links that will determine this season. I do see a team that should be ready to win this year into next year.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
I think that the OLine is so much better today than it was four days ago. They have the same starters, minus Zeitler, and there is optimism for continued growth. But the depth is so much better than it was. People bang on DG for the late turnover, but to me he is doing his job. Listen to Judge's press conferences and you can see he feels that exact same way about cut-down day and even in season signings.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
HUMPTY Dumpty can’t be fixed as is, and 100 coaches could not make this line better like some people think.
can make a difference. Unlike every other year in which we started behind the 8-ball with miserable records, the first four games are favorable and we should be 3-1 if we want to do anything and at least 2-2 if we don't want our season to be like what has become the norm around here. So, at least we will know early.
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
HUMPTY Dumpty can’t be fixed as is, and 100 coaches could not make this line better like some people think.
if they make you so miserable why even bkther watching?
The team is in "show me" mode. Given the past 10 seasons its very hard to just make the assumption that we're going to be good. Seeing the Oline against the Pats look very much like the OLs of the past 10 years didn't help either.
I can say at the very least Gettleman went out and got some reinforcements, in years past I think we would have just rolled with Wiggins and Slade as back ups rather than going out and finding some young players with upside. This would have been better done on July 31 vs August 31, but its better than never at all.
does not make them A-holes. We are not in the strongest division which is in our favor but anything above 9-8 would really surprise me. 9-8 or better would mean Barkley can be healthy most of the season and the line would get him some room to run. If we are not able to run the ball the past history of our OC and QB is not something to bet the house on. I am hoping DJ can make a major step forward in year 3 but he needs help.
2 of my best friends are Pats fans and they are the most unreasonable people to talk football with. I wouldn't trade places with that organization to be honest, no amount of winning is worth being that brainwashed.
they surmise, they conjecture, they spout absolutes borne of their bias. But the season is fresh, the faces are fresh, one of the younger teams in the league has (or may not have) grown. This team is not McAdoo's team or Shurmer's team or even last year's team. It's a whole new, untested, untried team where people try to overlay perceptions based on something totally different.
It really all is a big, "We shall see" at present.
has been about right to be honest. We have sucked for a long time why should we get the benefit of the doubt. And especially when the prognosticators have been proven right and Gettelemen has been on the wrong side of that.
I am always optimistic - however, reality is results have been piss poor for a extended stretch. Winning solves a lot of this, and the Giants unfortunately have done little of that.
I would just like to win the first game to start positive. Outside of 2016, you have to go back to 2012 to find a year this team did not start 0-2 or worse - 2012 was 0-1.
Win games and the narrative changes - it is always easier from the outside to pound on bad teams
about this team at the start of training camp. I thought they were headed in the right direction and I thought the arrow was pointing up - AND most importantly the Giants were going to finally have that turn around season we all hoped for.
The preseason has really worn away the shine on my pre-season outlook. THe OL is still a mess, DJ only played one half of football where he looked pretty much the same, KG hasn't played a snap, SB hasn't played a snap, Toney hasn't played a snap. I don't know how anyone can look at the offense and be excited about it.
The defense is going to be legit, but it's REALLY hard to win 16-10 in the NFL anymore.
has been about right to be honest. We have sucked for a long time why should we get the benefit of the doubt. And especially when the prognosticators have been proven right and Gettelemen has been on the wrong side of that.
Its not about being right or wrong, its just an easy story. There's cases that can be made on looking glass half full but that isn't as easy and doesn't sell as well. Plus pissing off callers is how you get people to call in and listen. Craig Carton predicting the Giants will stink isn't insightful.
Doesn't mean they'll be terrible this year (although they could be), each year some teams are a lot better and some a lot worse.
Analysts are in the business of making predictions, last year a lot of them expected Cleveland to make a leap even though they'd been bad but this year none are expecting the Giants to make a similar leap.
They all think Jones is terrible, Gettleman doesn't now how to build a team, some mock Judge etc.
Who knows if they're right, a lot on this board are in agreement with them.
But to me they're being a bit lazy and overlooking the strong defense and massive upgrades on offense. Maybe the Oline stinks and sinks this whole thing
I'm optimistic though, always am. I know I just can't wait for the season to start, we'll find out soon enough who is right.
Sounds about right.
I like football. I like the grind. I like being on the field in 90* heat. I like DWOP, Ball polish and my INDY groups. I like 7 v 7 and full contact run game periods.
But, I especially like gameday mornings.
I like knowing that the opposing OC is 78% likely to throw as soon as they cross mid-field.
I like discovering that my new FS can come down, mid-game to CB without practicing and play well.
I like the process. I like the details. I'm not getting bogged down on what may or may not be a thing in 6 or 8 weeks. I'm all in right now.
So yes, the Giants will be fun to watch.
Well as stupid as this sounds "until you get good your bad".
I guess that this is the time to bet on the Giants
The confidence is low and the perception is that the Giants will be awful
I think that an over bet on wins may be the way to go
The Giants are projected to win 7 or less games
complaining? Sheesh. The Giants are 15-33 the last three years, and until proven otherwise they are a team that averages five wins a year. I'm optimistic they'll turn it around every year, but I also have no faith in the people building this roster.
that was an awesome read and exactly how I feel. Winning is what we all want but if that's the only thing that made sports fun sports wouldn't be popular. If you need that for sports to be fun then God bless you, sounds miserable.
The Giants were 6-10 last year and it was an incredibly fun season, arguably more fun than our last winning season in all honesty.
The team and the organization are a “steaming pile of dinosaur dung”- until they are not.
I’m hopeful, but until they start winning , they deserve no positive comments.
who am I to say they won't, they certainly might, but what gets me nuts is if this team scored 17 pts in that preseason first half and Thomas makes ONE more block, Jones doesn't throw the INT, no one is crushing this team today. And I think that's insane.
Sticking yo my guns. I'll be here in January. The Giants won't suck this year. Hold me to it.
the whole "we suck forever" narrative or 2018 to now thing is pointless.
It didn't matter that the Giants were in the midst of a glory run when they embarked on the 2013 season. The long struggle doesn't matter today. This is a new team completely. Things change.
Everybody isn't down on the Giants. Just remember,
Was a kid in the 70’s. Ii know most of you were not around but this is glory days compared to that decade. As a kid in CT no one wanted to say they were a fan.
teams churn the bottom of their roster all the time. DG and the Giants trade for some OL depth and people are reading the fucking riot act around here.
Get a fucking grip already. Man the fuck up. This team has top end talent all over the defense. Assuming KG is ready it can field a respectable WR group and a good backfield with BArkley. OL is young and has a lot to prove, but that doesn't mean it's going to suck. Give this team a shot.
Well I don't think the "bad luck" excuse is going to fly much anymore
I could be falling for the media hype, but the last preseason game our starting offense seemed the same as always. A QB who holds the ball too long and has a propensity to turn the ball over and a porous OL. I know it was half a game, BUT in HALF A GAME they showed they are exactly what they were for 16 games last season. I've been in DJ's corner and I've tried to find positives in DG's work. I was with JJ firing a OL coach mid-season. But this team still lacks. Maybe mid season they will have their shit together, but we have a lot of players in key positions who don't have a strong injury track record. By mid season I could see us having 2 wins. Hopefully Judge and staff have it more together than appearances show. Maybe the 'army of wounded' we have is a page from the BB playbook? Could be another step back season and that would be a tough pill to swallow.
A franchise that has been absolutely inept for nearly a decade isn't getting any respect.
It's fine if you personally are optimistic about the Giants, but objectively, why the hell would you expect anyone who isn't a Giants fan to believe in them until they actually show something on the field?
I thought we were truly on the fight path at the end of last year. We picked up some nice pieces in the offseason in Golloday, Toney, and the return of Saquon.
But listening to The Ringer NFL show podcast, the GM Shuffle with Mike Lombardi, and certain analyst on ESPN, I think I need to curb my enthusiasm. Louis Riddick said this would be a “rebuilding year.” Mike Lombardi basically laughed at the Daniel Jones, O-Line, Jason Garrett pairing, and the Ringer basically destroyed the entire franchise. It’s been brutal to listen so far.
Honestly I like the progression of the team, but it has been beyond annoying listening to these talking heads the last few weeks.
I personally am not letting one half of one preseason game effect my thinking. I think we have a lot of young talent, good coaching, showed improvement last year even with the injuries, and see no reason why we can't be much better this season.
You can't just say we stunk last year (or the last few years) so we will stink forever. Teams make the jump every year, and other fall too. There is a lot of building that happens before things show up in the W-L record. I, for one, am hopeful this season is our turn
I could be falling for the media hype, but the last preseason game our starting offense seemed the same as always. A QB who holds the ball too long and has a propensity to turn the ball over and a porous OL. I know it was half a game, BUT in HALF A GAME they showed they are exactly what they were for 16 games last season. I've been in DJ's corner and I've tried to find positives in DG's work. I was with JJ firing a OL coach mid-season. But this team still lacks. Maybe mid season they will have their shit together, but we have a lot of players in key positions who don't have a strong injury track record. By mid season I could see us having 2 wins. Hopefully Judge and staff have it more together than appearances show. Maybe the 'army of wounded' we have is a page from the BB playbook? Could be another step back season and that would be a tough pill to swallow.
First round pick, top two offensive FA adds and star RB didn't play so it was basically the same team that ended last year. Despite all that the Giants were actually winning at the half.
Offense gets all the publicity but the defense seems pretty respectable. My hope is that the offense makes some progress this year. They made investments at skill positions that were lacking last year hopefully some of that pays off. I personally will be happy with a 9 win season, but expect a range of 5 to 11 wins.
(1) Andrew Thomas and the OL has not shown any improvement;
(2) Daniel Jones looked better for the most part, but that INT against NE was inexcusable;
(3) Jason Garrett still loves 3 yard curls well short of the first down marker;
(4) Our skill position guys have not had a lot of reps together due to injuries; and
(5) It is difficult to consistently be successful by relying on your defense
I think its easy for the media (and a little lazy)
then that game showed me that the offensive line is still a disaster and jones is who he's always been, a fatally flawed player
and the people in charge (GM and scouts) are the same ones who have thrown an abundance of resources into trying to fix this team via the draft and have failed again and again so really where is the hope supposed to come from right now
“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.”
Jones needs to improve his reading of defenses, make better decisions, and to protect the football. The OL needs to get better at running and pass pro, and starting to control the LoS so the the opponent doesn't just sit in a Cover Two and win with ease. The receivers need to stay healthy and start producing at a higher level, because points come in the passing game and it's tough to rely on winning close games consistently. We need Saquon back to his healthy gamebreaking ability. Where's the confidence?
Until they improve, there's a very strong chance JG continues to call games in the same manner as in the past. He's a creature of habit and has a tendency to turtle up in his tunnel vision.
The preseason isn't a complete harbinger of things to come.
There's more talent now, and it's time to play above the excuses when this regular season begins. Until it happens, the media disrespect will continue, as will pessimism in the fanbase.
Our very highly drafted LT had a bad night. The RT they are looking to count on was not much better. Our QB who has had issues throws a rookie FA interception and almost had another one. To top it off all the added weapons we are looking to count on have not played.
who think the national media despises NYG, this morning Kiper and Bart Scott picked NYG to with the NFCE.
What...how the hell is this not a thread yet?
Every media story that disses the team, a conspiracy thread goes up for the masses to pile on the author. Now there is somebody giving a nice outlook...and we get crickets?
People are down on a team who hasn't had a winning season since 2016
who has a question mark at QB, hasn't had a good Oline in a decade, lost every pre-season game, and just saw their high draft LT look like a turnstile? Shocker.
who think the national media despises NYG, this morning Kiper and Bart Scott picked NYG to with the NFCE.
That goes without saying. But they are selling them short. They will be in the NFC championship game (I have them losing at the last moment, but I could be wrong and they will win out right).
to be all that much better, and will the players we already had really improve that much? I'm not all that optimistic either...but that's why they play the games.
RE: People are down on a team who hasn't had a winning season since 2016
who has a question mark at QB, hasn't had a good Oline in a decade, lost every pre-season game, and just saw their high draft LT look like a turnstile? Shocker.
This is reality. Even thinking about winning the division, or even having a winning record at this point is not.
Doesn't mean they'll be terrible this year (although they could be), each year some teams are a lot better and some a lot worse.
Generally yes, but look how consistent the Giants are at being a bad team. This is not to say they haven't had good units at times, but the product as a whole has consistently not won games
A few plays often decide a game. It's easy to say 'if DJ hadn't thrown that INT'. But he did. That's the inches that the Giants came up short. Until they stop coming up short, they're a lackluster team (at best).
who think the national media despises NYG, this morning Kiper and Bart Scott picked NYG to with the NFCE.
What...how the hell is this not a thread yet?
Every media story that disses the team, a conspiracy thread goes up for the masses to pile on the author. Now there is somebody giving a nice outlook...and we get crickets?
Well, one of the leaders of that brigade, my Fat friend in Charlotte, seems to have gone MIA since the scandal was revealed... ;)
I have concerns....but I.also see a road to.winning 10/11 games.
People just jumping on the bashing Giants bandwagon....stay there.
We do not need you.
Too many are pathetic
Just being realistic. Being unrealistic gets you the same thing. A losing team, but if it makes you feel better go for it. I’ve been a fan for over 50 years, and I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. The last 4 years have been both bad, and ugly, and even with a 6-10 team going after a bogus div title last year. That is how far this team has fallen that winning a garbage div at 6-10 last year would have been a great thing, and accomplishment.
The Giants have an outstanding young coach and are undefeated in 2021. If you’re down on the team at this point, you’re not really a fan. If you’ve followed them for 50 years you know the history ... they were pitiful in the 60s and early 70s until Parcells and BB came around. Then they were terrible again until TC; and now it will be JJ and Patrick Graham who will get it done. Healthy skepticism is good, but it should never turn a real fan against his team.
The Giants have an outstanding young coach and are undefeated in 2021. If you’re down on the team at this point, you’re not really a fan. If you’ve followed them for 50 years you know the history ... they were pitiful in the 60s and early 70s until Parcells and BB came around. Then they were terrible again until TC; and now it will be JJ and Patrick Graham who will get it done. Healthy skepticism is good, but it should never turn a real fan against his team.
What has Judge done up to this point to say he is outstanding?? He has gotten in fights with assistant coaches, and played an injured QB last year that not only set him back, but the team as well in a so called playoff push. So you can’t be down on a team that has an abysmal record the last ten years, and not be a fan. I watch them every week, and cheer for them just like everyone else, but I’m also realistic, and don’t think everything is all roses like lots of other people do. Losing is losing no matter how you want to look at things.👍
I personally am not letting one half of one preseason game effect my thinking. I think we have a lot of young talent, good coaching, showed improvement last year even with the injuries, and see no reason why we can't be much better this season.
You can't just say we stunk last year (or the last few years) so we will stink forever. Teams make the jump every year, and other fall too. There is a lot of building that happens before things show up in the W-L record. I, for one, am hopeful this season is our turn
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
But this notion that he’s some kind of genius and the secret leader of the entire Giants organization is pretty thin on evidence. I don’t think Judge is a film or game plan genius like Belichick. I didn’t see any evidence of that last season but he was a terrific teams coach in NE. But is he an offensive or defensive game planning guru? I don’t think so. He does seem to have TC type leadership and organization talent and that’s a great place to start. But even TC faltered and almost got bounced from the Giants. And that happened to a TC who was far more mature and far more accomplished as a HC.
Again, I like Judge so far. But there’s so many questions with this team. The health of key players (always a concern for all teams but our key players all have issues staying on the field), the entire offense from O-co to QB1 to the line to the skills players. I mean, offense is pretty important in the NFL and the Giants offense is among the very worst. And Judge made some questionable in game decisions last season. Which is fine and to be expected for a first year coach. But one way or another these games are going have more pressure to them and we’ll have to wait and see how JJ evolves under such pressure.
Anyway, yeah, cry me a river because the sports media and fans are dumping on our lousy team. Win some games and I bet that stops. Pretty simple.
You lose with potential, you win with performance.
It's that preseason is usually a fairly poor measure of how the season will pan out. The difference between winning and losing is usually a few injuries. Last season the injury to Barkley was a killer. If Barkley is around all season...they probably win another game or two. If the Giants stay away from major injuries...they are going to have a decent season.
I think they will have between 7-12 wins and it largely depends on health and the OL being middle of the road.
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Yeah but the ones showing hope and optimism make sure to jump into those negative miserable threads to go "nuh-uh" and call people assholes.
Unfounded optimism doesn't make one a better fan. It just makes them gullible.
right. so it's ok to say they are gonna suck only to see them surprise but gullible and terrible and god knows what else if you hold out and express hope that they could be better than expected. ok then.
Here's the thing you refuse to see or accept --no one here is screaming how great things are, but many are screaming how terrible they are. The hopefuls express that this team isn't THAT bad, COULD even be good. The rest say they are THAT bad and there's NO shot at a good year. That's extreme horse shit and as usual you twist or exaggerate to make a point.
It's weird to be that negative.
Feel free to say something like "it's weird to expect anything different after the last 5 years here"--ill save you the time and effort.
what does that even mean? Since when are we BUYING anything? Last I checked I am not staking my mortgage on this shit. Gullible entails being sold a bill of goods you paid too much for or "falling for it." Should I draw a line here and just not watch because I refuse to see any hope for Daniel Jones? Would that make me oh so wise? Who does that? You'll be watching. Not watching is your only recourse, other than coming here every day and telling people you know for a fact Jones won't improve and Barkley won't stay healthy and the OL is a finished product. You've covered that. I don't agree. Many more here don't as well. That's gullible? No, that's called being a patient fan who wants to see these young players get another year.
If it was the same team. Same HC. Same QB. Over and over and over...3-4-5 years running and they showed NO improvement, yes, it's gullible to hold out hope. This is year fucking 2.
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Yeah but the ones showing hope and optimism make sure to jump into those negative miserable threads to go "nuh-uh" and call people assholes.
So who's really doing the crying?
It goes both ways. Who cares it was just a point that someone calling out the hopefuls as crying is ironic when every thread is torpedoed by miserable take after miserable take. Both sides are crying feel better?
at any point in any of the last 5 seasons. Not just at the end of the season, but after any week of each of the last five seasons. That is the very embodiment of a franchise rooting around in the trash.
Matt Berry states that the Giants are rebuilding, and then Bill Simmons, Danny Kelly, and Danny Heifetz just destroy Daniel Jones at the 50:30 minute mark. It’s like a common consensus amongst many media analyst.
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
It goes farther than that. Vegas has us at 7 wins this season. That’s another double digit loss season. When does it end?
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
It goes farther than that. Vegas has us at 7 wins this season. That’s another double digit loss season. When does it end?
I suspect it will end when the Giants get a GM who doesn't have his head up his ass.
There are these so called miserable threads because ... the team has sucked for almost 10 full years. Quite the concept, huh? Maybe when they stop literally being one of the worst teams in the league, you may see a shift in positivity. The Giants need to break that pattern.
Good moments are so rare around here since Super Bowl 46, you could count them on one hand. Spare me the JPP jokes.
But seriously, I have a very good memory especially when it comes to Giants games, but man, YouTube will recommend a Giants game from 2017-2020 and I have no memory of some of them. Why? Because the product is forgettable, piss-poor, garbage.
Defenders are bothered by the critics and the critics are bothered by the defenders. Both have been right and wrong, both have had times of being unreasonable.
Defenders are bothered by the critics and the critics are bothered by the defenders. Both have been right and wrong, both have had times of being unreasonable.
In the end, it all goes away with wins. The real enemy is the losing. We just argue about the path taken to get there.
One side wants to believe the team knows how to get out of the mud, and every move is a step in the right direction, the other side says "show me why I should trust them now?"
Defenders are bothered by the critics and the critics are bothered by the defenders. Both have been right and wrong, both have had times of being unreasonable.
In the end, it all goes away with wins. The real enemy is the losing. We just argue about the path taken to get there.
One side wants to believe the team knows how to get out of the mud, and every move is a step in the right direction, the other side says "show me why I should trust them now?"
TTH. I agree with your post. I think when we start discussing the specifics of why the team has been bad is where things get messy. On the surface the Giants have been a bad team for most of the past ten years. We just don't know exactly why. Some say it is obvious that Mara is the reason, others say Gettleman and or a mixture of elements. Certain specifics we can identify; holding onto coaches\FO staff too long, holding onto players too long, bad contacts, bad coaching, bad drafting.
One last thing on critics and apologists, they both have value in analyzing events. To me critics provide value by looking at a situation differently than apologists while not expressing their view with authority. The same is true for the apologists; they provide a different view of a situation hopefully without authority as easy side should be aware of the possibility of being incorrect.
I think I remember the Rams game, too. They were still in St Louis. Only concern of mine was I had OBJ on my fantasy team.
Didn't that pick ... Moore get thrown out of that game for fighting lol? Forget his first name but he was just another awful player who didn't pan out. Either way I think it was some late, irrelevant, post- playoff elimination game so it's foggy for me.
Why has this team been bad? Easy. Bad drafting. Bad coaching. Bad players. EVERYTHING this team has done over the past 9-10 years has been awful.
Even some of Coughlins decisions were pretty dreadful at the end. Eli's idiot decision against Dallas to throw the ball in 2015.
Shurmur's decisions were the most idiotic. Punting the ball late in the game down scores, weird decisions to go for two early in the game, being the best player on the opponent's defense by NOT giving Barkley the ball.
The 2018 Road game against Philadelphia was the worst coaching that I've ever seen in my life. Just a complete idiot we had as a coach that day. I don't even care if it sounds extreme or not but he should have been fired right then and there lol why do I still have to look at your stupid faces after the same crap?
A lot of these games are similar, too. Games where teams have no reason to win whatsoever but due to the incompetent nature of our coaches and players of the last 10 years - we get to witness the pattern of seeing undeserving opponents walk away as winners.
Again same with Evan engram. I'm just tired of looking at him. I know Joe judge is everybody's Messiah around here but after his annoying drops he should be on the bench... for some time? I shouldn't be looking at Engram #88. How about some consequences Joey?
Or just never being able to be any good team besides the Seattle Seahawks with our backup quarterback in an empty Stadium? Even pretty average quarterbacks would come in and have a field day on the defense over the years.
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
RE: Well, I maybe shouldn’t be going there, Route 9
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
My gripe with him was the Philly game in 2018. Barkley touched to ball less than 5 times in the second half if I remember correctly. Why would you not use him ... you drafted him #2 overall! Doesn't necessarily have to be a running play every single time. Get the guy the fucking ball.
Then Shurmur did (or didn't do) the same thing against Dallas in the last game of that same year. The kick return team got the ball to midfield and I don't think the ball even went near Barkley. I remember scrambling in confusion on BBI or other sources to see if Barkley was hurt. Nothing.
The guy you draft #2 overall and you don't give him the ball once?
It worked against the Texans earlier on in the year didn't it?
They had the lead in Philly, 19-3, and Barkley was killing them. They were deep in Philly territory again and Eli threw that idiot interception before the half. Philly had absolutely no business coming back and winning that game. You picked him #2 overall. Get him the God damn ball.
I didn’t like how Shurmur handled that Philly game either
But I’m skeptical that Barkley is a winning football player. He doesn’t do what RBs do to help their team win. This is a tangent to this thread so we should leave the topic for some other time.
RE: I didn’t like how Shurmur handled that Philly game either
But I’m skeptical that Barkley is a winning football player. He doesn’t do what RBs do to help their team win. This is a tangent to this thread so we should leave the topic for some other time.
Lol yeah my face gets red as a stop sign talking about those games
RE: Well, I maybe shouldn’t be going there, Route 9
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
+1
RE: Well, I maybe shouldn’t be going there, Route 9
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
Apparently going away from Barkley wasn't conducive to winning games, either.
We most certainly know the reasons why the NYG have been bad
for the past decade. Putting that list together for these last two regimes is easy. The only question being do you want the list to have just a few key ones or make it lengthier.
The more difficult topic actually is who and how to assign the blame, excuse me...responsibility. And that is what usually causes the bigger arguments because we aren't in the rooms when those bad decisions are borne, and when they are debated or just agreed upon. But even this isn't all that difficult, although we seem to make it out to be...
RE: We most certainly know the reasons why the NYG have been bad
for the past decade. Putting that list together for these last two regimes is easy. The only question being do you want the list to have just a few key ones or make it lengthier.
The more difficult topic actually is who and how to assign the blame, excuse me...responsibility. And that is what usually causes the bigger arguments because we aren't in the rooms when those bad decisions are borne, and when they are debated or just agreed upon. But even this isn't all that difficult, although we seem to make it out to be...
I am not sure if this is in response to me, but your post is basically what I said above
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
+1
Another BBI myth, that Barkley can't run between the tackles. The problem was the OL couldn't block between that tackles. As as said above, switching away from arguably the best back in the NFL didn't help Shurmur either. Because it was the OL.
I’m not criticizing Barkley for not running inside.
He has a highly variable Yds per rushing attempt, a result of his running style, and isn’t a good pass blocker. We all know his OL sucked in 2019 but Barkley didn’t help matters.
To me, the ideal HB is LaDanian Tomlinson, who always seemed to fall forward for at least a yard or two even on busted plays to avoid negative yardage.
With Barkley, you often lose 2-3 yards, and that is obviously very bad on a down distance, risk reward basis.
About that Philly game, Barkley received hand offs 7 times in the 3rd quarter, but zero in the 4th. Barkley only gained 1first down in that 3rd quarter and was generally limited to short gains. If you look at the drive chart, Shurmur is really being criticized for not calling Barkley’s number in a 3-and-out with about 9 minutes left. But on that drive Eli was sacked by Vinny Curry on 1st down putting the Giants in a long 2 & 21 where obviously a rushing play wasn’t the right call. That was a very tense game for all of us and I think people are forgetting what happened in the 4th quarter. Shurmur was the HC and bears responsibility but the mistakes aren’t not giving Barkley the ball.
To summarize, Barkley is a high risk high reward HB. Even if you like that (I don’t), he wasn’t being productive in that bad 2nd half in Dec 2019 but Shurmur only went away from the running game for situational reasons.
RE: I’m not criticizing Barkley for not running inside.
He has a highly variable Yds per rushing attempt, a result of his running style, and isn’t a good pass blocker. We all know his OL sucked in 2019 but Barkley didn’t help matters.
To me, the ideal HB is LaDanian Tomlinson, who always seemed to fall forward for at least a yard or two even on busted plays to avoid negative yardage.
With Barkley, you often lose 2-3 yards, and that is obviously very bad on a down distance, risk reward basis.
About that Philly game, Barkley received hand offs 7 times in the 3rd quarter, but zero in the 4th. Barkley only gained 1first down in that 3rd quarter and was generally limited to short gains. If you look at the drive chart, Shurmur is really being criticized for not calling Barkley’s number in a 3-and-out with about 9 minutes left. But on that drive Eli was sacked by Vinny Curry on 1st down putting the Giants in a long 2 & 21 where obviously a rushing play wasn’t the right call. That was a very tense game for all of us and I think people are forgetting what happened in the 4th quarter. Shurmur was the HC and bears responsibility but the mistakes aren’t not giving Barkley the ball.
To summarize, Barkley is a high risk high reward HB. Even if you like that (I don’t), he wasn’t being productive in that bad 2nd half in Dec 2019 but Shurmur only went away from the running game for situational reasons.
There is a stat somewhere, that I am frankly too lazy to look up, about yards after contact in the backfield. You are analyzing stats in a vacuum, which is never correct. In situations where the D knew we were running, Barkley would get hit by numerous guys in the backfield. I'm sure we all remember this. They would sell out on the run, and Barkley had to beat 2 guys just to get to the line of scrimmage. No RB could have dealt with that (including Sanders and OJ both of which I have watched a lot since I'm old).
Stats are just stats, normal fans don't but you have to look under the surface. If one guys is fighting just to get to the LOS, and another is not getting hit until he is 3 yards past, who do you think will have better stats. All things being equal, Barkley is the best back in the NFL.
The best players in the league don't need qualifiers like "all things being equal". There are several backs in the league that are a class above Barkley.
The best players in the league don't need qualifiers like "all things being equal". There are several backs in the league that are a class above Barkley.
I don't agree with this blanket statement. Even in horrible conditions Barkley had a great rookie year (Rookie of the year and the Pro Bowl).
In 2019 he had 120 yds vs the Dallas Cowboys in Week 1. In week 2 he had 107 yds and 28 yds receiving vs Wash. In week 3 he got hurt with the high ankle sprain and was never healthy. In 2020 he got hurt in game 2.
When healthy, even when surrounded by crap, he was excellent. I don't see why some want to diminish what he actually did. Its really weird.
So my point is he didn't need the qualifier I put in my thread
stop pretending to be offended and live in reality. The Giants have proven nothing to anybody for them to say they are a good football team. They’re signs of potential with some pieces and this head coach but cmon.
To hell with the Giants, they stink and we know it.
I think it's just more fun having the same uncomplicated disputes with the same men, day in and day out. The rumbles on BBI are what football season is all about.
So yea the national media will be down on them snd you shouldn’t be annoyed by it. I personally think there is room for optimism and who knows we may be able to sneak into winning the division - but to be bothered by people not feeling that way is silly because they have been right 8 of the last 9 years.
The Giants have some positives going for them this year:
1. Defense can be good, may surprise
2. the additions on offense of Barkley, Golladay, Toney (will they all be on the field together is another story)
but in the end the Giants success will likely come down to Daniel Jones and the OL, and what has either done to make you optimistic?
lastly, stop listening to sports radio, it's better for your blood pressure.
So yea the national media will be down on them snd you shouldn’t be annoyed by it. I personally think there is room for optimism and who knows we may be able to sneak into winning the division - but to be bothered by people not feeling that way is silly because they have been right 8 of the last 9 years.
Haven't you claimed this for the last few years?
It's fine if you personally are optimistic about the Giants, but objectively, why the hell would you expect anyone who isn't a Giants fan to believe in them until they actually show something on the field?
You cannot look at this roster and deny that there is more speed and talent and capability...it's the weak/yet to be finished links that will determine this season. I do see a team that should be ready to win this year into next year.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
And losers will be losers, and all the pipe dreams in the world will not change a thing.
TBH, I think that they were great fun to watch last year. This year they will be fun to watch *and* they will be a winning team.
So many people focus on the destination and I get that. Everything is results-driven. But I think the journey is just as much fun.
Quote:
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
Quote:
In comment 15350954 Old Blue said:
Quote:
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
I think that the OLine is so much better today than it was four days ago. They have the same starters, minus Zeitler, and there is optimism for continued growth. But the depth is so much better than it was. People bang on DG for the late turnover, but to me he is doing his job. Listen to Judge's press conferences and you can see he feels that exact same way about cut-down day and even in season signings.
Quote:
In comment 15350967 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15350954 Old Blue said:
Quote:
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
HUMPTY Dumpty can’t be fixed as is, and 100 coaches could not make this line better like some people think.
Quote:
In comment 15350971 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15350967 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15350954 Old Blue said:
Quote:
People should be laughing at the Giants. Now they are pouring through the scrap heaps to try, and fix their O line, which is a big scrap heap itself, which DJ, and JJ thought was OK. This offense will suck, because the O line sucks, and all the KG’s, and Toney’s will not make the team better, and neither will the return of Barkley. The O line is that bad, and another losing season is headed for the books.
Picking up depth on the oline is laugh worthy?
Garbage to back up garbage is.
How do you know? you literally have no idea, just because you dont know who the players are that rhey pickrd up doesnt make them garbage..
Yes the line may be garbage or just maybe the 2 2nd your tackles improve, the 2nd year guard improves, the 2nd year center who was pretty good last year keeps improving..
last year the line got better as the season went on and ran the ball pretty well with Wayne Gallman and Alfred Morris
HUMPTY Dumpty can’t be fixed as is, and 100 coaches could not make this line better like some people think.
if they make you so miserable why even bkther watching?
I can say at the very least Gettleman went out and got some reinforcements, in years past I think we would have just rolled with Wiggins and Slade as back ups rather than going out and finding some young players with upside. This would have been better done on July 31 vs August 31, but its better than never at all.
they deserve to be laughed at
It really all is a big, "We shall see" at present.
People just jumping on the bashing Giants bandwagon....stay there.
We do not need you.
Too many are pathetic
I would just like to win the first game to start positive. Outside of 2016, you have to go back to 2012 to find a year this team did not start 0-2 or worse - 2012 was 0-1.
Win games and the narrative changes - it is always easier from the outside to pound on bad teams
The preseason has really worn away the shine on my pre-season outlook. THe OL is still a mess, DJ only played one half of football where he looked pretty much the same, KG hasn't played a snap, SB hasn't played a snap, Toney hasn't played a snap. I don't know how anyone can look at the offense and be excited about it.
The defense is going to be legit, but it's REALLY hard to win 16-10 in the NFL anymore.
Its not about being right or wrong, its just an easy story. There's cases that can be made on looking glass half full but that isn't as easy and doesn't sell as well. Plus pissing off callers is how you get people to call in and listen. Craig Carton predicting the Giants will stink isn't insightful.
This pretty much sums it up.
Giants win a couple and neat Seattle - they're up and
coming
2021 - Giants add weapons on offense - may be a dark horse
Giants lose to Pats - they won't win a game - DJ not
the "guy"
You're never as bad as you think when you lose
You're never as good as you think when you win
Never give up. Never surrender.
Analysts are in the business of making predictions, last year a lot of them expected Cleveland to make a leap even though they'd been bad but this year none are expecting the Giants to make a similar leap.
They all think Jones is terrible, Gettleman doesn't now how to build a team, some mock Judge etc.
Who knows if they're right, a lot on this board are in agreement with them.
But to me they're being a bit lazy and overlooking the strong defense and massive upgrades on offense. Maybe the Oline stinks and sinks this whole thing
I'm optimistic though, always am. I know I just can't wait for the season to start, we'll find out soon enough who is right.
Quote:
…will be fun to watch this year.
Haven't you claimed this for the last few years?
I like football. I like the grind. I like being on the field in 90* heat. I like DWOP, Ball polish and my INDY groups. I like 7 v 7 and full contact run game periods.
But, I especially like gameday mornings.
I like knowing that the opposing OC is 78% likely to throw as soon as they cross mid-field.
I like discovering that my new FS can come down, mid-game to CB without practicing and play well.
I like the process. I like the details. I'm not getting bogged down on what may or may not be a thing in 6 or 8 weeks. I'm all in right now.
So yes, the Giants will be fun to watch.
The confidence is low and the perception is that the Giants will be awful
I think that an over bet on wins may be the way to go
The Giants are projected to win 7 or less games
The Giants were 6-10 last year and it was an incredibly fun season, arguably more fun than our last winning season in all honesty.
I’m hopeful, but until they start winning , they deserve no positive comments.
Sticking yo my guns. I'll be here in January. The Giants won't suck this year. Hold me to it.
It didn't matter that the Giants were in the midst of a glory run when they embarked on the 2013 season. The long struggle doesn't matter today. This is a new team completely. Things change.
Get a fucking grip already. Man the fuck up. This team has top end talent all over the defense. Assuming KG is ready it can field a respectable WR group and a good backfield with BArkley. OL is young and has a lot to prove, but that doesn't mean it's going to suck. Give this team a shot.
Let's Go Giants!!! The old saying, he who laughs last....
They are essentially a young team that has now received a full preseason of coaching.
Giants will be more competitive this year.
Will that mean a winning record?
Maybe maybe not.
I think a lot of games will come down to a FG winning the game in the final seconds or OT. Will that be a Giant fg?
If they can win a couple of squeakers at the beginning of the season they can gain confidence as a team and a young team can grow together.
The Giants record may not be much better than last year but they will be much more competitive and therefore entertaining imo.
I choose to see the glass as half full.
It's fine if you personally are optimistic about the Giants, but objectively, why the hell would you expect anyone who isn't a Giants fan to believe in them until they actually show something on the field?
+1
Not sure when the last time we started 2-0 or 1-1 but I do recall 0-2.
I trust Judge at this time to have them ready. DJ is going to have to show up, the pressure of 0-2 could snap him.
Go Big Blue
But listening to The Ringer NFL show podcast, the GM Shuffle with Mike Lombardi, and certain analyst on ESPN, I think I need to curb my enthusiasm. Louis Riddick said this would be a “rebuilding year.” Mike Lombardi basically laughed at the Daniel Jones, O-Line, Jason Garrett pairing, and the Ringer basically destroyed the entire franchise. It’s been brutal to listen so far.
Honestly I like the progression of the team, but it has been beyond annoying listening to these talking heads the last few weeks.
It's not a joke either.
Apparently we ruined Andrew Thomas now. I feel confident that if Green Bay or Seattle had Andrew Thomas, he'd make the Pro Bowl this year.
I don't know where that comes from, because we have literally turned over the entire Front office since 2011, sans ownership.
You can't just say we stunk last year (or the last few years) so we will stink forever. Teams make the jump every year, and other fall too. There is a lot of building that happens before things show up in the W-L record. I, for one, am hopeful this season is our turn
First round pick, top two offensive FA adds and star RB didn't play so it was basically the same team that ended last year. Despite all that the Giants were actually winning at the half.
Offense gets all the publicity but the defense seems pretty respectable. My hope is that the offense makes some progress this year. They made investments at skill positions that were lacking last year hopefully some of that pays off. I personally will be happy with a 9 win season, but expect a range of 5 to 11 wins.
(2) Daniel Jones looked better for the most part, but that INT against NE was inexcusable;
(3) Jason Garrett still loves 3 yard curls well short of the first down marker;
(4) Our skill position guys have not had a lot of reps together due to injuries; and
(5) It is difficult to consistently be successful by relying on your defense
and the people in charge (GM and scouts) are the same ones who have thrown an abundance of resources into trying to fix this team via the draft and have failed again and again so really where is the hope supposed to come from right now
― Theodore Roosevelt
Until they improve, there's a very strong chance JG continues to call games in the same manner as in the past. He's a creature of habit and has a tendency to turtle up in his tunnel vision.
The preseason isn't a complete harbinger of things to come.
There's more talent now, and it's time to play above the excuses when this regular season begins. Until it happens, the media disrespect will continue, as will pessimism in the fanbase.
Let's see some signs of life, let's go!
What...how the hell is this not a thread yet?
Every media story that disses the team, a conspiracy thread goes up for the masses to pile on the author. Now there is somebody giving a nice outlook...and we get crickets?
That goes without saying. But they are selling them short. They will be in the NFC championship game (I have them losing at the last moment, but I could be wrong and they will win out right).
This is reality. Even thinking about winning the division, or even having a winning record at this point is not.
Generally yes, but look how consistent the Giants are at being a bad team. This is not to say they haven't had good units at times, but the product as a whole has consistently not won games
A few plays often decide a game. It's easy to say 'if DJ hadn't thrown that INT'. But he did. That's the inches that the Giants came up short. Until they stop coming up short, they're a lackluster team (at best).
Dallas was legitimate when?
And Washington has mostly sucked when the Giants sucked. It seems like we still beat them at least once a year.
Lots of teams in the division inspire confidence 🙄
But the unwarranted optimism almost every about the Cowboys does.
Quote:
who think the national media despises NYG, this morning Kiper and Bart Scott picked NYG to with the NFCE.
What...how the hell is this not a thread yet?
Every media story that disses the team, a conspiracy thread goes up for the masses to pile on the author. Now there is somebody giving a nice outlook...and we get crickets?
Well, one of the leaders of that brigade, my Fat friend in Charlotte, seems to have gone MIA since the scandal was revealed... ;)
People just jumping on the bashing Giants bandwagon....stay there.
We do not need you.
Too many are pathetic
Just being realistic. Being unrealistic gets you the same thing. A losing team, but if it makes you feel better go for it. I’ve been a fan for over 50 years, and I’ve seen the good, the bad, and the ugly. The last 4 years have been both bad, and ugly, and even with a 6-10 team going after a bogus div title last year. That is how far this team has fallen that winning a garbage div at 6-10 last year would have been a great thing, and accomplishment.
What has Judge done up to this point to say he is outstanding?? He has gotten in fights with assistant coaches, and played an injured QB last year that not only set him back, but the team as well in a so called playoff push. So you can’t be down on a team that has an abysmal record the last ten years, and not be a fan. I watch them every week, and cheer for them just like everyone else, but I’m also realistic, and don’t think everything is all roses like lots of other people do. Losing is losing no matter how you want to look at things.👍
You can't just say we stunk last year (or the last few years) so we will stink forever. Teams make the jump every year, and other fall too. There is a lot of building that happens before things show up in the W-L record. I, for one, am hopeful this season is our turn
Like this.
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
But this notion that he’s some kind of genius and the secret leader of the entire Giants organization is pretty thin on evidence. I don’t think Judge is a film or game plan genius like Belichick. I didn’t see any evidence of that last season but he was a terrific teams coach in NE. But is he an offensive or defensive game planning guru? I don’t think so. He does seem to have TC type leadership and organization talent and that’s a great place to start. But even TC faltered and almost got bounced from the Giants. And that happened to a TC who was far more mature and far more accomplished as a HC.
Again, I like Judge so far. But there’s so many questions with this team. The health of key players (always a concern for all teams but our key players all have issues staying on the field), the entire offense from O-co to QB1 to the line to the skills players. I mean, offense is pretty important in the NFL and the Giants offense is among the very worst. And Judge made some questionable in game decisions last season. Which is fine and to be expected for a first year coach. But one way or another these games are going have more pressure to them and we’ll have to wait and see how JJ evolves under such pressure.
Anyway, yeah, cry me a river because the sports media and fans are dumping on our lousy team. Win some games and I bet that stops. Pretty simple.
To what end though? 10 years of nonsense hasn't earned the right to not be questioned when things happen that can be questioned.
At this juncture it only puts them equidistant form you but without the pejorative.
Quote:
Unfounded optimism doesn't make one a better fan. It just makes them gullible.
At this juncture it only puts them equidistant form you but without the pejorative.
The last decade of results says otherwise.
I think they will have between 7-12 wins and it largely depends on health and the OL being middle of the road.
Quote:
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Yeah but the ones showing hope and optimism make sure to jump into those negative miserable threads to go "nuh-uh" and call people assholes.
So who's really doing the crying?
right. so it's ok to say they are gonna suck only to see them surprise but gullible and terrible and god knows what else if you hold out and express hope that they could be better than expected. ok then.
Here's the thing you refuse to see or accept --no one here is screaming how great things are, but many are screaming how terrible they are. The hopefuls express that this team isn't THAT bad, COULD even be good. The rest say they are THAT bad and there's NO shot at a good year. That's extreme horse shit and as usual you twist or exaggerate to make a point.
It's weird to be that negative.
Feel free to say something like "it's weird to expect anything different after the last 5 years here"--ill save you the time and effort.
There is a very high chance that they will stink.
If it was the same team. Same HC. Same QB. Over and over and over...3-4-5 years running and they showed NO improvement, yes, it's gullible to hold out hope. This is year fucking 2.
It's weird to be that negative.
Not really. Not at all, actually. You look at what you see on the field or on your television set and form an opinion.
Quote:
In comment 15351222 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Yeah but the ones showing hope and optimism make sure to jump into those negative miserable threads to go "nuh-uh" and call people assholes.
So who's really doing the crying?
It goes both ways. Who cares it was just a point that someone calling out the hopefuls as crying is ironic when every thread is torpedoed by miserable take after miserable take. Both sides are crying feel better?
The Bill Simmons Podcast - ( New Window )
Quote:
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
Quote:
In comment 15351222 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
It goes farther than that. Vegas has us at 7 wins this season. That’s another double digit loss season. When does it end?
Quote:
In comment 15351381 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15351222 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Right...except the ones showing hope or optimism aren't the loudest ones here. There are 10 negative miserable threads a day around here. So who's doing the crying then?
Did you read the OP? The guy's bummed out because some podcasters are shitting on the Giants. Well...tough. Start winning some games and see how fast the tunes change. Until then, expect a lot of criticism, most if it deserved.
It goes farther than that. Vegas has us at 7 wins this season. That’s another double digit loss season. When does it end?
I suspect it will end when the Giants get a GM who doesn't have his head up his ass.
Good moments are so rare around here since Super Bowl 46, you could count them on one hand. Spare me the JPP jokes.
But seriously, I have a very good memory especially when it comes to Giants games, but man, YouTube will recommend a Giants game from 2017-2020 and I have no memory of some of them. Why? Because the product is forgettable, piss-poor, garbage.
The game against the Rams when Jeff Fisher/Gregg Williams were targeting OBJ was a good win. Eli and OBJ lit those assholes up.
Otherwise the only memorable wins were memorable because they cost us draft positioning.
In the end, it all goes away with wins. The real enemy is the losing. We just argue about the path taken to get there.
One side wants to believe the team knows how to get out of the mud, and every move is a step in the right direction, the other side says "show me why I should trust them now?"
Quote:
Defenders are bothered by the critics and the critics are bothered by the defenders. Both have been right and wrong, both have had times of being unreasonable.
In the end, it all goes away with wins. The real enemy is the losing. We just argue about the path taken to get there.
One side wants to believe the team knows how to get out of the mud, and every move is a step in the right direction, the other side says "show me why I should trust them now?"
TTH. I agree with your post. I think when we start discussing the specifics of why the team has been bad is where things get messy. On the surface the Giants have been a bad team for most of the past ten years. We just don't know exactly why. Some say it is obvious that Mara is the reason, others say Gettleman and or a mixture of elements. Certain specifics we can identify; holding onto coaches\FO staff too long, holding onto players too long, bad contacts, bad coaching, bad drafting.
One last thing on critics and apologists, they both have value in analyzing events. To me critics provide value by looking at a situation differently than apologists while not expressing their view with authority. The same is true for the apologists; they provide a different view of a situation hopefully without authority as easy side should be aware of the possibility of being incorrect.
Didn't that pick ... Moore get thrown out of that game for fighting lol? Forget his first name but he was just another awful player who didn't pan out. Either way I think it was some late, irrelevant, post- playoff elimination game so it's foggy for me.
Much of the same ...
I've moved on
Even some of Coughlins decisions were pretty dreadful at the end. Eli's idiot decision against Dallas to throw the ball in 2015.
Shurmur's decisions were the most idiotic. Punting the ball late in the game down scores, weird decisions to go for two early in the game, being the best player on the opponent's defense by NOT giving Barkley the ball.
The 2018 Road game against Philadelphia was the worst coaching that I've ever seen in my life. Just a complete idiot we had as a coach that day. I don't even care if it sounds extreme or not but he should have been fired right then and there lol why do I still have to look at your stupid faces after the same crap?
A lot of these games are similar, too. Games where teams have no reason to win whatsoever but due to the incompetent nature of our coaches and players of the last 10 years - we get to witness the pattern of seeing undeserving opponents walk away as winners.
Again same with Evan engram. I'm just tired of looking at him. I know Joe judge is everybody's Messiah around here but after his annoying drops he should be on the bench... for some time? I shouldn't be looking at Engram #88. How about some consequences Joey?
Or just never being able to be any good team besides the Seattle Seahawks with our backup quarterback in an empty Stadium? Even pretty average quarterbacks would come in and have a field day on the defense over the years.
I've moved on
Their record hasn't moved on from being bad.
Well actually, 6-10 is a pretty solid year for the Giants when you weigh the averages.
My gripe with him was the Philly game in 2018. Barkley touched to ball less than 5 times in the second half if I remember correctly. Why would you not use him ... you drafted him #2 overall! Doesn't necessarily have to be a running play every single time. Get the guy the fucking ball.
Then Shurmur did (or didn't do) the same thing against Dallas in the last game of that same year. The kick return team got the ball to midfield and I don't think the ball even went near Barkley. I remember scrambling in confusion on BBI or other sources to see if Barkley was hurt. Nothing.
The guy you draft #2 overall and you don't give him the ball once?
It worked against the Texans earlier on in the year didn't it?
Lol yeah my face gets red as a stop sign talking about those games
+1
Apparently going away from Barkley wasn't conducive to winning games, either.
The more difficult topic actually is who and how to assign the blame, excuse me...responsibility. And that is what usually causes the bigger arguments because we aren't in the rooms when those bad decisions are borne, and when they are debated or just agreed upon. But even this isn't all that difficult, although we seem to make it out to be...
The more difficult topic actually is who and how to assign the blame, excuse me...responsibility. And that is what usually causes the bigger arguments because we aren't in the rooms when those bad decisions are borne, and when they are debated or just agreed upon. But even this isn't all that difficult, although we seem to make it out to be...
I am not sure if this is in response to me, but your post is basically what I said above
Quote:
But I think Shurmur had good reasons for going away from Barkley during close games. I don’t think Shurmur is HC material but he is a gifted offensive mind and I wouldn’t criticize his decisions in that area lightly. And I believe he went away from Saquon because what Saquon delivers isn’t conducive to winning football games.
+1
Another BBI myth, that Barkley can't run between the tackles. The problem was the OL couldn't block between that tackles. As as said above, switching away from arguably the best back in the NFL didn't help Shurmur either. Because it was the OL.
To me, the ideal HB is LaDanian Tomlinson, who always seemed to fall forward for at least a yard or two even on busted plays to avoid negative yardage.
With Barkley, you often lose 2-3 yards, and that is obviously very bad on a down distance, risk reward basis.
About that Philly game, Barkley received hand offs 7 times in the 3rd quarter, but zero in the 4th. Barkley only gained 1first down in that 3rd quarter and was generally limited to short gains. If you look at the drive chart, Shurmur is really being criticized for not calling Barkley’s number in a 3-and-out with about 9 minutes left. But on that drive Eli was sacked by Vinny Curry on 1st down putting the Giants in a long 2 & 21 where obviously a rushing play wasn’t the right call. That was a very tense game for all of us and I think people are forgetting what happened in the 4th quarter. Shurmur was the HC and bears responsibility but the mistakes aren’t not giving Barkley the ball.
To summarize, Barkley is a high risk high reward HB. Even if you like that (I don’t), he wasn’t being productive in that bad 2nd half in Dec 2019 but Shurmur only went away from the running game for situational reasons.
To me, the ideal HB is LaDanian Tomlinson, who always seemed to fall forward for at least a yard or two even on busted plays to avoid negative yardage.
With Barkley, you often lose 2-3 yards, and that is obviously very bad on a down distance, risk reward basis.
About that Philly game, Barkley received hand offs 7 times in the 3rd quarter, but zero in the 4th. Barkley only gained 1first down in that 3rd quarter and was generally limited to short gains. If you look at the drive chart, Shurmur is really being criticized for not calling Barkley’s number in a 3-and-out with about 9 minutes left. But on that drive Eli was sacked by Vinny Curry on 1st down putting the Giants in a long 2 & 21 where obviously a rushing play wasn’t the right call. That was a very tense game for all of us and I think people are forgetting what happened in the 4th quarter. Shurmur was the HC and bears responsibility but the mistakes aren’t not giving Barkley the ball.
To summarize, Barkley is a high risk high reward HB. Even if you like that (I don’t), he wasn’t being productive in that bad 2nd half in Dec 2019 but Shurmur only went away from the running game for situational reasons.
There is a stat somewhere, that I am frankly too lazy to look up, about yards after contact in the backfield. You are analyzing stats in a vacuum, which is never correct. In situations where the D knew we were running, Barkley would get hit by numerous guys in the backfield. I'm sure we all remember this. They would sell out on the run, and Barkley had to beat 2 guys just to get to the line of scrimmage. No RB could have dealt with that (including Sanders and OJ both of which I have watched a lot since I'm old).
Stats are just stats, normal fans don't but you have to look under the surface. If one guys is fighting just to get to the LOS, and another is not getting hit until he is 3 yards past, who do you think will have better stats. All things being equal, Barkley is the best back in the NFL.
I don't agree with this blanket statement. Even in horrible conditions Barkley had a great rookie year (Rookie of the year and the Pro Bowl).
In 2019 he had 120 yds vs the Dallas Cowboys in Week 1. In week 2 he had 107 yds and 28 yds receiving vs Wash. In week 3 he got hurt with the high ankle sprain and was never healthy. In 2020 he got hurt in game 2.
When healthy, even when surrounded by crap, he was excellent. I don't see why some want to diminish what he actually did. Its really weird.
I listed reasons why the team has been bad, but when it comes to specifics (as in who is to blame) we don't know.
You're right. I didn't phrase my point properly. It is a question of who as you stated above.
I think it's just more fun having the same uncomplicated disputes with the same men, day in and day out. The rumbles on BBI are what football season is all about.
He can visit the threads when he comes back and just change what people said.
Quote:
The usual suspects are like fucking broken records...
He can visit the threads when he comes back and just change what people said.
He adds much more than that to this site. Regardless of the sin... BBI is much better when he is participating.