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The Athletic Poll = Giants 15th in NFC

Jersey Heel : 9/3/2021 10:11 am
https://theathletic.com/2803927/2021/09/03/nfl-execs-rank-the-nfc-1-16-bucs-and-packers-in-front-nfc-west-power-and-weakness-up-front-with-giants-and-bears/

I know it’s behind a paywall, so here is what it says about the Giants:

15. New York Giants
Votes: 15-14-14-15-13 | Avg: 14.2 | Median: 14
The Giants have won the NFC East three times in the past 20 seasons and not since 2011. Their nine-season run without a division title is their longest since a 22-season gap from 1964-1985. They were 11th in the conference last season, spent big in free agency and didn’t get a vote higher than 13th in this poll, despite a weak division and a defense that can be difficult to play against.
“Their defense has a chance, but without Saquon Barkley, an offense built around Daniel Jones does not,” a voter said. “They do a lot of things with weird special teams formations that take up practice time, but their season is riding on some of the basics, like whether they can protect the quarterback.”
If this ranking becomes accurate, the Giants will own a high 2022 draft choice of their own, plus another high pick acquired from Chicago in the draft-day swap that let the Bears select Justin Fields. By then, the Giants should have a better idea whether they need to select a quarterback or can feel good about moving forward with Jones.
“What I like about Daniel Jones is he’s willing to stand in there, stare down the barrel,” a voter said. “They added some weaponry. Getting Saquon back (at some point) will be huge because they can do a better job marrying run with pass. Jones is going to work at it, he’s tough and he can do it physically. Being in the same offense for the second year in a row, he has a chance to take off a little bit. I just don’t know if they can protect him.”
The poll was done by  
Jersey Heel : 9/3/2021 10:13 am : link
Anonymous executives, FYI.

I’m not as optimistic as some of you, but 15 out of 16 isinsultingly low. We are not that bad.
Not sure why anyone is  
cjac : 9/3/2021 10:20 am : link
insulted by predictions of the Giants having a crappy season. They've been terrible 9 out of the last 10 years. Not sure how you can say we're not that bad
RE: The poll was done by  
Essex : 9/3/2021 10:20 am : link
In comment 15352004 Jersey Heel said:
Quote:
Anonymous executives, FYI.

I’m not as optimistic as some of you, but 15 out of 16 isinsultingly low. We are not that bad.


I am not sure I agree. We are simply not very and I am usually not a pessimist. From all reports, camp has not been very good. Besides injuries, how are we not finishing in last in our division. The Eagles, who everyone on here seems to think is the division foe worse than us, has a stellar Oline and good, not great, Dline. We are probably the worst team in the worst division in football, so 15th is not "insultingly low." If everything breaks right, could we surprise? I think with a decent defense, which we have, we could. But, I think a lot of the question marks we have will have to be favorably answered for us to be a .500 range team.
If the Giants have a poor season..  
Sean : 9/3/2021 10:22 am : link
after spending all the money they did, yikes.
I found this quote to be weird from the excert  
Essex : 9/3/2021 10:23 am : link
“They do a lot of things with weird special teams formations that take up practice time, but their season is riding on some of the basics, like whether they can protect the quarterback.”

Seems like a unique critique. Not saying it is valid or invalid, but given that these are executives, I found it weird as I had not really heard this before from the media, fans, etc.
Everyone is down on the Giants  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/3/2021 10:24 am : link
All I know is that if we have another shitty season, then Gettleman and the entire Front Office need to go.
How would another executive know  
Dnew15 : 9/3/2021 10:24 am : link
that the Giants spend a lot of practice time working on weird special team alignments?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/3/2021 10:25 am : link
I read that this morning. Depressing read. I guess one bright spot was Chicago was 14.
RE: RE: The poll was done by  
joeinpa : 9/3/2021 10:25 am : link
In comment 15352011 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15352004 Jersey Heel said:


Quote:


Anonymous executives, FYI.

I’m not as optimistic as some of you, but 15 out of 16 isinsultingly low. We are not that bad.



I am not sure I agree. We are simply not very and I am usually not a pessimist. From all reports, camp has not been very good. Besides injuries, how are we not finishing in last in our division. The Eagles, who everyone on here seems to think is the division foe worse than us, has a stellar Oline and good, not great, Dline. We are probably the worst team in the worst division in football, so 15th is not "insultingly low." If everything breaks right, could we surprise? I think with a decent defense, which we have, we could. But, I think a lot of the question marks we have will have to be favorably answered for us to be a .500 range team.


Speaking of question marks, it is troubling that a #2,4&6 pick are in that category.

Where has it been reported, that by all accounts it hasn’t been a good camp.
RE: How would another executive know  
Dukie Dimes : 9/3/2021 10:31 am : link
In comment 15352016 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that the Giants spend a lot of practice time working on weird special team alignments?


Maybe it was Gettleman? The poll was anonymous.
I love how they  
dabru : 9/3/2021 10:32 am : link
rank the giants lower than their 13th finish last year. I also love the disrespect. The season can go either way but 15th out of the gate-lol.
The first referenced comment  
Biteymax22 : 9/3/2021 10:32 am : link
In the article makes it seem as if Saquon Barkley isn't playing at all this season. Really kind of kills the credibility right off the bat.....

I like the Athletic and they have some good writers but here and there some of these polls and lists they have are just hair brained. The did one the other day about the best players under 25. Andrew Thomas was an honorable mention as a tackle yet I read articles on their site that bash him constantly. On the flip side Dexter Lawrence wasn't mentioned over guys he's out produced.

Do I think the Giants have a claim to stake down and say "we're going to be a top 5/playoff team? Not at all, but given the fact we finished 2nd in the division, returned almost our whole defense except 2 positions (1 upgraded), are getting back Barkley and added more offensive weapons, its hard to say we'll be the 2nd worse team in the entire NFC.
The Giants came within a whisker of winning the NFC East last year  
JohnB : 9/3/2021 10:39 am : link
And they did it without their best player on the field. They’re getting him back and they have a good complement of weapons on the offensive side. I expect them to be as good as last year which means competing for the NFC East crown.

15th out 16 teams? I agree, that’s a bit insulting.
Guys  
BigBlueJ : 9/3/2021 10:40 am : link
as long as we continue to be a losing franchise the narrative paints itself. The only solution is to win, that is all, and keep winning until the narrative works in our favor.
So  
Toth029 : 9/3/2021 10:45 am : link
Who is last?

Giants aren't worse than the Eagles.
Unemployed NFL Executive> Lombardi> hates DG and the Giants  
George from PA : 9/3/2021 10:46 am : link
Waste of print but love the bulletin board material
The Lions are wost....the Bears are 14th.  
George from PA : 9/3/2021 10:47 am : link
.
In my opinion  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/3/2021 10:50 am : link
this is fairly accurate.

Giants are flailing right now trying to tweak the line. It has the appearance of desperation. Middle of the road defense (very good secondary) coupled with a terrible O line is a recipe for disaster....it just looks like and feels too much like other recent seasons.

Until the Giants can figure out why they continue to ruin offensive linemen, this continues.
What is the commentary about weird special team formations  
chick310 : 9/3/2021 10:51 am : link
taking up valuable time?

This had to have been some kind of random remark/leak from someone internally in the front office. No way does that come out or said from a player or coach.

Or maybe it's just made up altogether.
can't wait to see the polls in late december  
djm : 9/3/2021 10:57 am : link
kinda seems more important than now.
And the last paragraph doesn't exactly marry up with the  
chick310 : 9/3/2021 10:59 am : link
rest of the commentary either, except for the OL remark.

Every prediction about the 2021 Giants should be based on how you feel the Offensive Line will shake out. Jones will likely improve from a horrid prior year, but it still may not convert to more win if the OL doesn't support the production of more TDs.

With all that said, 15th may be pessimistic, but could be more directionally correct than not if the OL falls apart.
RE: The first referenced comment  
McNally's_Nuts : 9/3/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15352030 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In the article makes it seem as if Saquon Barkley isn't playing at all this season. Really kind of kills the credibility right off the bat.....

I like the Athletic and they have some good writers but here and there some of these polls and lists they have are just hair brained. The did one the other day about the best players under 25. Andrew Thomas was an honorable mention as a tackle yet I read articles on their site that bash him constantly. On the flip side Dexter Lawrence wasn't mentioned over guys he's out produced.

Do I think the Giants have a claim to stake down and say "we're going to be a top 5/playoff team? Not at all, but given the fact we finished 2nd in the division, returned almost our whole defense except 2 positions (1 upgraded), are getting back Barkley and added more offensive weapons, its hard to say we'll be the 2nd worse team in the entire NFC.


I agree. But at this point with the team it’s a “don’t tell me. Show me”
RE: What is the commentary about weird special team formations  
I Love Clams Casino : 9/3/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15352057 chick310 said:
Quote:
taking up valuable time?

This had to have been some kind of random remark/leak from someone internally in the front office. No way does that come out or said from a player or coach.

Or maybe it's just made up altogether.


No....somebody actually mentioned this the other day. It's not a secret....Training camp
So now we also have  
stoneman : 9/3/2021 11:00 am : link
special team trick plays to look forward to - Its really up to the OL this year (I have more faith in decent QB play than OL). We'll see.
Win with more regularity and the respect will come  
The_Boss : 9/3/2021 11:13 am : link
Out of curiosity, who was the worst NFC team? Atlanta? Also I would assume they think Philadelphia is better?? That I don’t see at all. They’re a dumpster fire in the making. I will say if this turns out true, somebody has to be held accountable. And that somebody has better be fucking Dave.
RE: RE: What is the commentary about weird special team formations  
chick310 : 9/3/2021 11:14 am : link
In comment 15352074 I Love Clams Casino said:
Quote:
In comment 15352057 chick310 said:


Quote:


taking up valuable time?

This had to have been some kind of random remark/leak from someone internally in the front office. No way does that come out or said from a player or coach.

Or maybe it's just made up altogether.



No....somebody actually mentioned this the other day. It's not a secret....Training camp


Really? Do you recall who, are we talking about a beat writer with an axe to grind?
The Giants had a really rough start to last season,  
Kmed6000 : 9/3/2021 11:23 am : link
but they really picked it up after that. Then DJ got hurt and never really recovered. I really don't understand why they wouldn't have us at least in the middle of the pack. The defense was really good last year, we now have lots of weapons that we didn't have last year and we are still a very young team. Continuity with system and coaching. I def understand why teams wouldn't have us as good, but the 2nd worst in the NFC is kind of nuts to me.

Its an opportunity to change the narrative.
RE: Win with more regularity and the respect will come  
John In CO : 9/3/2021 11:24 am : link
In comment 15352092 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Out of curiosity, who was the worst NFC team? Atlanta? Also I would assume they think Philadelphia is better?? That I don’t see at all. They’re a dumpster fire in the making. I will say if this turns out true, somebody has to be held accountable. And that somebody has better be fucking Dave.


Dallas was 7, WFT 10 and Eagles 11. One exec put the Eagles at 5 an another at 7!

WOrst NFC team was the Lions.
RE: RE: Win with more regularity and the respect will come  
The_Boss : 9/3/2021 11:30 am : link
In comment 15352105 John In CO said:
Quote:
In comment 15352092 The_Boss said:


Quote:


Out of curiosity, who was the worst NFC team? Atlanta? Also I would assume they think Philadelphia is better?? That I don’t see at all. They’re a dumpster fire in the making. I will say if this turns out true, somebody has to be held accountable. And that somebody has better be fucking Dave.



Dallas was 7, WFT 10 and Eagles 11. One exec put the Eagles at 5 an another at 7!

WOrst NFC team was the Lions.


The outside perception of this team right now couldn’t be any lower..
Not surprising  
Go Terps : 9/3/2021 11:30 am : link
It's a badly assembled roster with a poor QB and OL whose schedule kicks off against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

A bad season wouldn't be the worst thing in the world of it shocks ownership into action. Worst case scenario is a repeat of last season - bad start followed by a second half mirage that convinces ownership "the arrow is pointing up" again.
RE: Not surprising  
Sean : 9/3/2021 11:33 am : link
In comment 15352110 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's a badly assembled roster with a poor QB and OL whose schedule kicks off against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

A bad season wouldn't be the worst thing in the world of it shocks ownership into action. Worst case scenario is a repeat of last season - bad start followed by a second half mirage that convinces ownership "the arrow is pointing up" again.

I just don’t know what “action” looks like? Firing Gettleman and promoting Abrams to work with Judge? I’m intrigued with Judge and company evaluating the QB’s next year, but I just don’t know what that looks like from a front office perspective.

Not moving off Gettleman after 2019 really screwed up synergy and schedules among the front office and coaching staff.
How the hell are Eagles...  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 11:36 am : link
ahead of us?

They seems like a real dumpster fire down there.
15th seems a tad pessimistic to me  
cosmicj : 9/3/2021 11:39 am : link
but something in the 9-13 range seems justified.

They seem to really hate the Bears situation, which surprises me. If the views here are right, we dropped back 10 spots but secured a high pick in a loaded 2022 draft. That will be a coup and should dampen some of our tears about not getting Slater or some of the other players that went before we finally drafted this year.
Sean  
Go Terps : 9/3/2021 11:44 am : link
I think action means firing Gettleman and moving on from the ridiculous notion of a team built around Jones and Barkley. Hire a GM to work side by side with Judge (same timeline, same agenda) and start an actual project.
We were the Eagles throwing a game from possibly winning  
BestFeature : 9/3/2021 11:48 am : link
the division, albeit a shitty division. That game had no reflection on the Giants but would put them at least 5 spots higher in this poll the Eagles won. That's how stupid this poll is.
RE: RE: The poll was done by  
DannyDimes : 9/3/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15352011 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 15352004 Jersey Heel said:


Quote:


Anonymous executives, FYI.

I’m not as optimistic as some of you, but 15 out of 16 isinsultingly low. We are not that bad.



I am not sure I agree. We are simply not very and I am usually not a pessimist. From all reports, camp has not been very good. Besides injuries, how are we not finishing in last in our division. The Eagles, who everyone on here seems to think is the division foe worse than us, has a stellar Oline and good, not great, Dline. We are probably the worst team in the worst division in football, so 15th is not "insultingly low." If everything breaks right, could we surprise? I think with a decent defense, which we have, we could. But, I think a lot of the question marks we have will have to be favorably answered for us to be a .500 range team.


You think the Eagles are better than the Giants? Detroit? Chicago? Carolina? Atlanta? Seriously???


RE: Not surprising  
map7711 : 9/3/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15352110 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's a badly assembled roster with a poor QB and OL whose schedule kicks off against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

A bad season wouldn't be the worst thing in the world of it shocks ownership into action. Worst case scenario is a repeat of last season - bad start followed by a second half mirage that convinces ownership "the arrow is pointing up" again.


Look who joined the fun.
ESPN ranked NYG 24th out of 32  
shyster : 9/3/2021 12:00 pm : link
with their first four games against teams ranked 26, 20, 23 and 19.

The opportunities are there to get off to a positive start. Go out and win the games; that's all that matters.
espn - ( New Window )
RE: Unemployed NFL Executive> Lombardi> hates DG and the Giants  
bradshaw44 : 9/3/2021 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15352051 George from PA said:
Quote:
Waste of print but love the bulletin board material


Yup. He was on local radio here in DC shredding the Giants. Saying they do everything to try to recreate the past and refuse to move to the future. And he said plenty other negative stuff too.
One week to go and no one knows who is the starting RB, RT, LG, TE  
Ivan15 : 9/3/2021 12:17 pm : link
And maybe the whole o-line.
I would say #15 may be about right.
Giants can prove everyone wrong by having a  
Metnut : 9/3/2021 12:20 pm : link
winning season one of these years. Most of the rest of the league sees the same OL and QB as last year. If these guys take a leap forward then you’ll see the Giants reputation change but until then we’re an easy punching bag.
Nobody won the NFCE last year...  
BamaBlue : 9/3/2021 12:23 pm : link
one team was less bad than the others.
I know fans don't want to hear  
pjcas18 : 9/3/2021 12:26 pm : link
it, especially in September before week 1, but it may be the best thing for the Giants to finish 15th or 16th and have the Bears do the same.

Get the QB and RT in one fell swoop, right some wrongs and rebuild with the right people picking the players.

otherwise say the Giants do "over perform" and wind up 7 - 9 or 8 - 8 but still the QB and OL are not competitive - they get stuck in purgatory of mediocrity.

So, not a loser mentality, but if the players on the roster can't win a title hitting rock bottom is an easier way to get players who can than being mediocre.
RE: RE: Unemployed NFL Executive> Lombardi> hates DG and the Giants  
Go Terps : 9/3/2021 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15352163 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 15352051 George from PA said:


Quote:


Waste of print but love the bulletin board material



Yup. He was on local radio here in DC shredding the Giants. Saying they do everything to try to recreate the past and refuse to move to the future. And he said plenty other negative stuff too.


He's 100% right.
Well at least we know the team is not going to  
Stu11 : 9/3/2021 12:49 pm : link
artificially inflate themselves reading their own press clippings.
RE: How would another executive know  
Bill in UT : 9/3/2021 12:55 pm : link
In comment 15352016 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
that the Giants spend a lot of practice time working on weird special team alignments?


Lil' Bill has a guy in a blimp
It's odd that people need to build conspiracies  
NoGainDayne : 9/3/2021 12:58 pm : link
around people not being optimistic about a team that has been very very bad. Maybe the worst team for a bit now.

You don't need a vendetta to be skeptical of the Giants...
Yes the Giants have been bad  
Mike in NY : 9/3/2021 1:11 pm : link
There are a number of reasons why I am concerned about this year, which I have posted in other threads. That being said, I don't think the Giants are in a noticeably worse position than Detroit, Chicago, Atlanta, and Carolina. Not to mention Philly will also have to play Denver and Washington who we start the year against. I almost would have rather started the year vs. Rams, @ KC, @ TB so we got rhythm against teams we are expected to lose anyway. With even average OL play and our skill guys not getting hurt disrupting development of timing, we could have potentially started the year 4-0. Unfortunately none of that took place. I just hate that we are likely going to lose at least one game that we will likely look back and say had that game been later in the year we don't lose that game.
RE: It's odd that people need to build conspiracies  
trueblueinpw : 9/3/2021 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15352200 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
around people not being optimistic about a team that has been very very bad. Maybe the worst team for a bit now.

You don't need a vendetta to be skeptical of the Giants...


And further, the conspiracy that’s necessary to construct a *positive* narrative for the Giants is that Joe Judge is secretly running all facets of the org. Of course, this is contrary to facts such as Jason Garrett being appointed O-co and Getty’s trades and FA signing and contract work and the Mara’s running the draft and pro and college scouting and pretty much everything else. But yeah, the guy who was special teams coach in NE two years ago is now running - er - influencing - the entire org. Which means we’re gonna be really competitive this year.
RE: RE: It's odd that people need to build conspiracies  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 2:16 pm : link
In comment 15352222 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
In comment 15352200 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


around people not being optimistic about a team that has been very very bad. Maybe the worst team for a bit now.

You don't need a vendetta to be skeptical of the Giants...



And further, the conspiracy that’s necessary to construct a *positive* narrative for the Giants is that Joe Judge is secretly running all facets of the org. Of course, this is contrary to facts such as Jason Garrett being appointed O-co and Getty’s trades and FA signing and contract work and the Mara’s running the draft and pro and college scouting and pretty much everything else. But yeah, the guy who was special teams coach in NE two years ago is now running - er - influencing - the entire org. Which means we’re gonna be really competitive this year.


Garrett being the OC is certainly a fact, what is not a fact is who wanted him. Gettleman has made trades, what is not a fact is who orchestrated the trades. The drafting and FA signings are indeed facts, again who orchestrated is not a fact that we know.

This is a fair take until the Giants prove otherwise  
Heisenberg : 9/3/2021 2:17 pm : link
The game is not played on paper or in Joe Judge press conferences. Until the team shows they can win football games, they don't deserve to be ranked any higher than that, IMO.
This should be bulliten board material  
JFIB : 9/3/2021 2:42 pm : link
All year for the team. JJ should hang this up in the locker room to motivate everyone. No way we end the season that low.
Wouldn't surprise me, seems like a fair take  
moespree : 9/3/2021 2:55 pm : link
The reports of camp and practice have not been overly positive if we are being honest. Most of us have chose to shrug it off, seeing it as only practice and no big deal. And maybe that will wind up true. I hope it does.

I don't think they'll be worse. But significantly better? Well I can't say that I've seen anything particularly impressive about the preseason that leads me to think 2021 is going to be all that different from what we've been watching the last few seasons.
Breaking down our road games...  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 3:05 pm : link
At: WFT, Saints, Cowboys, Chiefs, Bucs, Dolphins, Chargers, Eagles and Bears.

Except for Dallas and Philly, all of those teams have formidable defenses and/or defensive coordinators. So it's really tough to rationally find more than 3 wins...tops.

So we are going to need to have a good home record to get into a position for any playoff spot.

That's why these first two games - in four days - are going to be pivotal in determining which direction the season goes...
RE: Not surprising  
djm : 9/3/2021 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15352110 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's a badly assembled roster with a poor QB and OL whose schedule kicks off against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

A bad season wouldn't be the worst thing in the world of it shocks ownership into action. Worst case scenario is a repeat of last season - bad start followed by a second half mirage that convinces ownership "the arrow is pointing up" again.


the last time this team had two back to back seasons where the second half "improved" upon the first half was 2018 and 2019--and the Giants ended up firing Shurmur.

They don't always operate that way. Plus they aren't firing Judge anytime soon even if they did go 4-13 this year.

DG will be gone if Jones and or the team falls flat. Don't you worry. Again, some of you act like the Giants are resistant to make changes. Uhh, they have fired so many GMs and HCs lately I lost count. facts.
being critical of "building around Barkley"  
djm : 9/3/2021 3:17 pm : link
is so ridiculous. Since when is it bad to possess an elite talent at RB? JFC.
RE: RE: RE: Unemployed NFL Executive> Lombardi> hates DG and the Giants  
djm : 9/3/2021 3:18 pm : link
In comment 15352173 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15352163 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15352051 George from PA said:


Quote:


Waste of print but love the bulletin board material



Yup. He was on local radio here in DC shredding the Giants. Saying they do everything to try to recreate the past and refuse to move to the future. And he said plenty other negative stuff too.



He's 100% right.


New young QB. New first time HC.

100% horse shit.
RE: RE: The first referenced comment  
Biteymax22 : 9/3/2021 3:19 pm : link
In comment 15352073 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
In comment 15352030 Biteymax22 said:


Quote:


In the article makes it seem as if Saquon Barkley isn't playing at all this season. Really kind of kills the credibility right off the bat.....

I like the Athletic and they have some good writers but here and there some of these polls and lists they have are just hair brained. The did one the other day about the best players under 25. Andrew Thomas was an honorable mention as a tackle yet I read articles on their site that bash him constantly. On the flip side Dexter Lawrence wasn't mentioned over guys he's out produced.

Do I think the Giants have a claim to stake down and say "we're going to be a top 5/playoff team? Not at all, but given the fact we finished 2nd in the division, returned almost our whole defense except 2 positions (1 upgraded), are getting back Barkley and added more offensive weapons, its hard to say we'll be the 2nd worse team in the entire NFC.



I agree. But at this point with the team it’s a “don’t tell me. Show me”


We finished better than 15th in the NFC last year so I’d say we’ve shown we’re better than that already….
these experts  
djm : 9/3/2021 3:29 pm : link
are wrong every year. literally. Every year.

The final stats and standings will tell the truth.
RE: RE: Not surprising  
Mike in NY : 9/3/2021 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15352285 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15352110 Go Terps said:


Quote:


It's a badly assembled roster with a poor QB and OL whose schedule kicks off against some of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

A bad season wouldn't be the worst thing in the world of it shocks ownership into action. Worst case scenario is a repeat of last season - bad start followed by a second half mirage that convinces ownership "the arrow is pointing up" again.



the last time this team had two back to back seasons where the second half "improved" upon the first half was 2018 and 2019--and the Giants ended up firing Shurmur.

They don't always operate that way. Plus they aren't firing Judge anytime soon even if they did go 4-13 this year.

DG will be gone if Jones and or the team falls flat. Don't you worry. Again, some of you act like the Giants are resistant to make changes. Uhh, they have fired so many GMs and HCs lately I lost count. facts.


It is not that they haven't fired many GM's or HC's it is how they go about replacing them. They never hire anyone who does not have ties to the organization or previous hires. You look at successful teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc., they have cast a wide net to make sure they get the correct hire. As soon as Ernie Accorsi was hired as a "consultant" you knew DG was the hire. Jerry Reese was a promotion from within. On the head coaching side the last real person from outside the organization or the GM was Dan Reeves. Fassel and Coughlin both had ties to the Giants. McAdoo was Coughlin's OC. Shurmur had ties to DG. Judge was recommended by Bill Belichick and Nick Saban. If it was not Judge, Matt Rhule was a position coach under Tom Coughlin. This also extends to the QB position. A QB who won't make waves is more important than actual ability to play QB. The Giants would never have considered someone like Lamar Jackson for the QB position because he does not have the look of an Eli Manning or a Brett Favre.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Unemployed NFL Executive> Lombardi> hates DG and the Giants  
Go Terps : 9/3/2021 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15352288 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15352173 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15352163 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


In comment 15352051 George from PA said:


Quote:


Waste of print but love the bulletin board material



Yup. He was on local radio here in DC shredding the Giants. Saying they do everything to try to recreate the past and refuse to move to the future. And he said plenty other negative stuff too.



He's 100% right.



New young QB. New first time HC.

100% horse shit.


They didn't call Accorsi to guide them on the Jones pick? Was Jones coached by the same guy that coached Eli?

Did the Giants draft a running back #2 overall in an era where passing is king? Has their buffoon GM talked about the importance of establishing the run? Has their buffoon GM did it takes 3 years for a college quarterback to develop?

It wouldn't shock me if the calendars at the Giants offices are still turned to 1986.

The NY Giants have made a ton of free agent signings, draft picks and  
Jimmy Googs : 9/3/2021 4:11 pm : link
trades over the past several years. Do we really need to question that Dave Gettleman is not at the forefront of all of these transactions?

Of course the coaches, scouts and other front office personnel (including the owners in certain cases) are involved as well at varying levels and providing ideas and opinions. But Gettleman is the GM...he highest level person in the organization executing on football operations that is not an owner/family member.

He is in charge and orchestrates these transactions, or is empowering a close subordinate (ie., Abrams) to do it on his behalf within certain parameters.
It is a fair  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 4:15 pm : link
Question to me. The Giants have never declared how the collaborative efforts work.
2021 is all about clarity  
Sean : 9/3/2021 4:17 pm : link
Jones+OL will determine how this season goes. If both perform well, the Giants can win the division imo.

If both perform poorly, than we are looking at a new GM & QB.

That’s it. There is no in between. Gettleman got 2020 & 2021, but he went get 2022 based on any second half surges.
They have declared it to be very collaborative,  
Jimmy Googs : 9/3/2021 4:34 pm : link
numerous times over. And that still doesn't preclude the fact that DG orchestrates all of these transactions as General Manager of the team.

What's the real point here of questioning this...to absolve him from some blame for the goings-on? Or figure out how to divvy it up properly in making the correct firings or demotions of a family-operated business?

just asking...
RE: They have declared it to be very collaborative,  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 4:42 pm : link
In comment 15352336 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
numerous times over. And that still doesn't preclude the fact that DG orchestrates all of these transactions as General Manager of the team.

What's the real point here of questioning this...to absolve him from some blame for the goings-on? Or figure out how to divvy it up properly in making the correct firings or demotions of a family-operated business?

just asking...


It's an unknown to me. If this were to defend Gettleman then you would see me celebrate any good move as Gettleman's and any not so good move to anyone else.

No one knows how closely Gettleman works with his head coaches no matter what the Giants say.
They'll go as far the OL takes them.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/3/2021 4:59 pm : link
Which is a pretty scary thought considering how awful Thomas looked last week.
RE: RE: RE: Not surprising  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 5:50 pm : link
In comment 15352303 Mike in NY said:
Quote:


It is not that they haven't fired many GM's or HC's it is how they go about replacing them. They never hire anyone who does not have ties to the organization or previous hires. You look at successful teams like Pittsburgh, Baltimore, etc., they have cast a wide net to make sure they get the correct hire. As soon as Ernie Accorsi was hired as a "consultant" you knew DG was the hire. Jerry Reese was a promotion from within. On the head coaching side the last real person from outside the organization or the GM was Dan Reeves. Fassel and Coughlin both had ties to the Giants. McAdoo was Coughlin's OC. Shurmur had ties to DG. Judge was recommended by Bill Belichick and Nick Saban. If it was not Judge, Matt Rhule was a position coach under Tom Coughlin. This also extends to the QB position. A QB who won't make waves is more important than actual ability to play QB. The Giants would never have considered someone like Lamar Jackson for the QB position because he does not have the look of an Eli Manning or a Brett Favre.


That's such an interesting point and one I have thought about. I get wanting to find a high character guy. But the ability to actually win on the field and lead a team should be the bigger boxes to check.

What did Jones do on the "plus" side to warrant such a high draft slot? Because if you are going to invest in a prospect that high, he had better have some real high-level physical attributes. Attributes that could make you a force multiplier talent. But Jones didn't have a plus arm. Didn't have plus decision making. Didn't have plus pocket awareness. Didn't have plus off-schedule ability.

He might be a plus athlete with some decent mobility. But that was not enough - IMV - to push him that far up the draft board. NFW.

But he checked the intangibles "pluses" that Mara/Gettleman loved - Eli-ish, Cutler, Manning Camps, etc. And so far those attributes have not lead to more wins than losses and output in key metrics that indicate improving performance.
What was DG’s prior connection to Shurmur?  
Sean : 9/3/2021 5:56 pm : link
Shurmur came up with Andy Reid.
That didn't answer my question regarding what's the point.  
Jimmy Googs : 9/3/2021 5:57 pm : link
And sure we we know he works closely with Judge. They all say that is the case, and the stories wouldn't synch up otherwise when it is discussed publicly.
Garbage poll  
Bramton1 : 9/3/2021 6:10 pm : link
40 percent of the voters said the Eagles were the best team in the NFC East.
Jones pick is still a mystery…  
trueblueinpw : 9/3/2021 6:12 pm : link
Duke isn’t a top CF program and Jones wasn’t particularly distinguished there. Some people wrote that Jones didn’t have a lot of talent around him, and that’s why he didn’t win in college (sound familiar?). But that never made any sense, especially at the college level and especially at the second (or third) tier which is Duke football. A top NFL prospect should be tearing up the competition in the ACC Costal Division. But that wasn’t Jones. Oddly enough, Jones is pretty much the same player in the NFL that he was at Duke. Who could have ever seen something like that coming? Well, aside from pretty much every scouting report where Jones was a nearly unanimous day two pick as a hopeful backup.

But hey, at least he kind of looks like one of the former Giants quarterbacks who won a couple of Super Bowls and never missed a start. Full bloom love!
RE: Jones pick is still a mystery…  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 6:17 pm : link
In comment 15352391 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Duke isn’t a top CF program and Jones wasn’t particularly distinguished there. Some people wrote that Jones didn’t have a lot of talent around him, and that’s why he didn’t win in college (sound familiar?). But that never made any sense, especially at the college level and especially at the second (or third) tier which is Duke football. A top NFL prospect should be tearing up the competition in the ACC Costal Division. But that wasn’t Jones. Oddly enough, Jones is pretty much the same player in the NFL that he was at Duke. Who could have ever seen something like that coming? Well, aside from pretty much every scouting report where Jones was a nearly unanimous day two pick as a hopeful backup.

But hey, at least he kind of looks like one of the former Giants quarterbacks who won a couple of Super Bowls and never missed a start. Full bloom love!


Like Barkley was a safe pick in '18, it's probably fair to conclude that Jones was a safe pick in '19.

But while I didn't like using the pick on a RB, at least you knew with Barkley you were getting a freakish athlete with running and receiving skills.
RE: That didn't answer my question regarding what's the point.  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 6:22 pm : link
In comment 15352380 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
And sure we we know he works closely with Judge. They all say that is the case, and the stories wouldn't synch up otherwise when it is discussed publicly.


The point of my post was to address the poster that claimed the Giants roster transactions (free agency, draft) was proof that Gettleman and Mara control who comes and goes with the Giants. Again, we don't know who gets their way and how much.

Why praise someone who may not be responsible for a good roster move, and why criticize someone that may not have been responsible for a bad roster move?
That poster was just making light of this concept that posters  
Jimmy Googs : 9/3/2021 6:49 pm : link
are clinging to that Joe Judge is running the entire NYG show these days. Which, of course, logically he is not.

Too much goes into how an NFL franchise is operated. And the idea that a head coach with 1 year under his belt, no matter how impressive he may sound, has taken over full responsibility for 100% of the football operations for the Giants is folly.

More likely, Judge has impressed others in the FO enough that, he is being included more in a variety of decision-making processes that affect the team. And part in parcel with that, is the poor results from those who used to drive those decisions in the past has caused some doubts as to their own prowess and the value they are actually providing to this rebuild.

of course, just spitballing...
.  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 6:52 pm : link
I honestly agree with most everything in your post. I read the other post a bit differently, but no big deal.
John Mara and his family run the Giants, Getty is his GM…  
trueblueinpw : 9/3/2021 7:00 pm : link
I don’t think Judge is swinging some big dick around the Meadowlands and calling all the shots for the Giants. This doesn’t track with who Gettleman has always been and it certainly doesn’t track with who we know the Mara’s have always been. I think it’s just fantasy to think to that Judge is the secret leader of the New York Football Giants.

How does that even make any sense for a guy that was completely off anyone’s radar as a HC candidate? “Thanks Mr Mara, appreciate the HC offer but just one condition, I’ll be making the player personnel decisions.” And John Mara was like, “no problem Joe, you got carte blanche but we just have to pretend that me and Dave are making the decisions. Welcome aboard kid!”

And the Mara’s and Getty would agree to Judge’s supreme influence because… Wait, why would they agree to such enormous influence for Judge? His special teams coaching in NE? He worked for Saban plotting plays? Belichicks glowing recommendation? (And all the renowned success of Little Bill’s coaching tree)?

Or did Mara give Judge the keys to the Big Blue castle after last season’s stunning and unequivocal success for the first time ever HC Judge?

And from a practical standpoint how does this work? Getty and Chris Mara have Slater as the first pick but Judge stands up in the war rooms and overrules and picks KT? “Need more speed on offense guys. My call right John? Hey Chris, grab me a Coke while you’re up”.

Further, let’s say it's true and Judge is twirling his shvantz around the building and telling everyone what to do. What’s that say about the rest of the org? The second year head coach who finished with a losing record is now influencing all football decision? And this is our hope to turn things around?

Anyway…

I think Judge is going to be a good head coach. I do. But I’m not convinced he’ll be a successful HC for the Giants. Especially considering the way Getty has built out this roster. Aside from KA, how many GMs are going to want to come in and not be able to pick their own HC? And what if Judge doesn’t like the new GM? There’s a lot that can still go wrong for the Giants even if Judge is a really solid HC. It’s not how I would run the organization but, I don’t run it. And neither does Joe Judge. The Giants are run by John Mara and his family. And they probably always will be.
this poll is interesting but somewhat surprising  
Eric on Li : 9/3/2021 7:01 pm : link
Daniel Jeremiah just tweeted this out.

Quote:
Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
1h
Now that the rosters are set, good time to revisit-

Checklist for building a championship foundation in today's NFL
Role/Number of players
QB (1)
Pass rusher (2)
Off Playmaker (3)
Def Playmaker (3)
Quality OL (3)

Which teams hit every mark?


On defense pretty much all the boxes are checked - 3+ playmakers (Martinez, Bradberry, Jackson, all the safeties) and Leonard Williams qualifies as 1 pass rusher. Carter or Ojulari hitting as a 2nd pass rusher would take it over the top.

On offense they have playmakers when healthy (Shepard, Engram, Barkley, Golladay, Slayton/Toney?).

So as we would all have kind of guessed, this season is really entirely on Jones + whether or not there are 3 good OL on this roster.

That somehow seems like a lot of boxes checked for a team picked to come in basically last place.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/3/2021 7:04 pm : link
I guess the silver lining is that if somehow we end up 15th in the conference, Gettleman is gone.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/3/2021 7:06 pm : link
For the record, I think our defense is legit. And the offense has the potential to be good if-and it's a huge fucking if-the OL is serviceable. Gun to head, I ain't confident, especially after Sunday's performance. It's amazing how time & resources we've devoted to the OL over the years & it's been blah @ best.
RE: this poll is interesting but somewhat surprising  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 7:10 pm : link
In comment 15352410 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
Daniel Jeremiah just tweeted this out.



Quote:


Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
1h
Now that the rosters are set, good time to revisit-

Checklist for building a championship foundation in today's NFL
Role/Number of players
QB (1)
Pass rusher (2)
Off Playmaker (3)
Def Playmaker (3)
Quality OL (3)

Which teams hit every mark?


I really Jeremiah, but I think he has the wrong ranking.

QB #1 for sure. But I would put OL firmly #2.

In today's NFL, there is such a premium on scoring/offense that a quality OL makes it so much easier to play the game (along with the QB of course).
RE: John Mara and his family run the Giants, Getty is his GM…  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 7:12 pm : link
In comment 15352409 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
I don’t think Judge is swinging some big dick around the Meadowlands and calling all the shots for the Giants. This doesn’t track with who Gettleman has always been and it certainly doesn’t track with who we know the Mara’s have always been. I think it’s just fantasy to think to that Judge is the secret leader of the New York Football Giants.

How does that even make any sense for a guy that was completely off anyone’s radar as a HC candidate? “Thanks Mr Mara, appreciate the HC offer but just one condition, I’ll be making the player personnel decisions.” And John Mara was like, “no problem Joe, you got carte blanche but we just have to pretend that me and Dave are making the decisions. Welcome aboard kid!”

And the Mara’s and Getty would agree to Judge’s supreme influence because… Wait, why would they agree to such enormous influence for Judge? His special teams coaching in NE? He worked for Saban plotting plays? Belichicks glowing recommendation? (And all the renowned success of Little Bill’s coaching tree)?

Or did Mara give Judge the keys to the Big Blue castle after last season’s stunning and unequivocal success for the first time ever HC Judge?

And from a practical standpoint how does this work? Getty and Chris Mara have Slater as the first pick but Judge stands up in the war rooms and overrules and picks KT? “Need more speed on offense guys. My call right John? Hey Chris, grab me a Coke while you’re up”.

Further, let’s say it's true and Judge is twirling his shvantz around the building and telling everyone what to do. What’s that say about the rest of the org? The second year head coach who finished with a losing record is now influencing all football decision? And this is our hope to turn things around?

Anyway…

I think Judge is going to be a good head coach. I do. But I’m not convinced he’ll be a successful HC for the Giants. Especially considering the way Getty has built out this roster. Aside from KA, how many GMs are going to want to come in and not be able to pick their own HC? And what if Judge doesn’t like the new GM? There’s a lot that can still go wrong for the Giants even if Judge is a really solid HC. It’s not how I would run the organization but, I don’t run it. And neither does Joe Judge. The Giants are run by John Mara and his family. And they probably always will be.


I don't even know of any posters claiming that Judge is making all of the personnel decisions.

The Giants claim collaboration. If that is the case, how do we know where praise and blame should be directed?

You stated it a fact that Mara hired Garrett.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/3/2021 7:13 pm : link
No clue if Mara was instrumental in Garrett getting hired, but I believe John thinks very highly of JG so...who knows? I don't think he dissuaded JJ from hiring him, I'll put it like that.
RE: ...  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 7:19 pm : link
In comment 15352422 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
No clue if Mara was instrumental in Garrett getting hired, but I believe John thinks very highly of JG so...who knows? I don't think he dissuaded JJ from hiring him, I'll put it like that.


I agree with this. I would feel confident in suggesting that Mara recommended Garrett. But a recommendation is not a mandate.
The latest HC choices do come from outside the organization  
cosmicj : 9/3/2021 7:29 pm : link
McAdoo, Shurmur and Judge all rose up through other channels. Gettleman hired Koncz. The offensive and defensive coordinators in recent years have come from other teams. Several of the scouts DG hired come from outside the franchise. Sure, there are vet Giants organization people in positions of responsibility, but that’s to be expected.

I don’t think insularity is the problem. I think John Mara doesn’t know what he’s doing - that’s the problem.
RE: RE: John Mara and his family run the Giants, Getty is his GM…  
Jimmy Googs : 9/3/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15352420 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 15352409 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


I don’t think Judge is swinging some big dick around the Meadowlands and calling all the shots for the Giants. This doesn’t track with who Gettleman has always been and it certainly doesn’t track with who we know the Mara’s have always been. I think it’s just fantasy to think to that Judge is the secret leader of the New York Football Giants.

How does that even make any sense for a guy that was completely off anyone’s radar as a HC candidate? “Thanks Mr Mara, appreciate the HC offer but just one condition, I’ll be making the player personnel decisions.” And John Mara was like, “no problem Joe, you got carte blanche but we just have to pretend that me and Dave are making the decisions. Welcome aboard kid!”

And the Mara’s and Getty would agree to Judge’s supreme influence because… Wait, why would they agree to such enormous influence for Judge? His special teams coaching in NE? He worked for Saban plotting plays? Belichicks glowing recommendation? (And all the renowned success of Little Bill’s coaching tree)?

Or did Mara give Judge the keys to the Big Blue castle after last season’s stunning and unequivocal success for the first time ever HC Judge?

And from a practical standpoint how does this work? Getty and Chris Mara have Slater as the first pick but Judge stands up in the war rooms and overrules and picks KT? “Need more speed on offense guys. My call right John? Hey Chris, grab me a Coke while you’re up”.

Further, let’s say it's true and Judge is twirling his shvantz around the building and telling everyone what to do. What’s that say about the rest of the org? The second year head coach who finished with a losing record is now influencing all football decision? And this is our hope to turn things around?

Anyway…

I think Judge is going to be a good head coach. I do. But I’m not convinced he’ll be a successful HC for the Giants. Especially considering the way Getty has built out this roster. Aside from KA, how many GMs are going to want to come in and not be able to pick their own HC? And what if Judge doesn’t like the new GM? There’s a lot that can still go wrong for the Giants even if Judge is a really solid HC. It’s not how I would run the organization but, I don’t run it. And neither does Joe Judge. The Giants are run by John Mara and his family. And they probably always will be.



I don't even know of any posters claiming that Judge is making all of the personnel decisions.

The Giants claim collaboration. If that is the case, how do we know where praise and blame should be directed?

You stated it a fact that Mara hired Garrett.


You keep missing it. Posters have naturally gravitated towards Judge because he is new blood, sounds the part and took a bad roster last year and got a decent amount out of it. And maybe because they are just simply tired of hitching their wagon to Gettleman since he has been, well... awful.

But those posters though cannot just leave Getts behind altogether so they remark how good of a collaborative team Judge and Getts are. When it looks more and more like Judge is picking up the slack that is created by a poor GM. Getts still likely has too much involvement because, as mentioned before, there is a lot to do in running football operations, but at least its something that is being mitigating more and more.

Don't concern yourself with where blame and praise go if you can't see it. Just watch the Giants...
RE: ...  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 7:32 pm : link
In comment 15352422 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
No clue if Mara was instrumental in Garrett getting hired, but I believe John thinks very highly of JG so...who knows? I don't think he dissuaded JJ from hiring him, I'll put it like that.


I've always believed that Mara strongly encouraged Judge to take Garrett as his OC. Garrett has HC experience, knows the NFCE, played in the NFCE, and is a NJ guy. Seemed like the perfect set of training wheels - in Mara's eyes - to guide Judge through the learning curve as a first time ever HC.
It seems fairly likely to me that Mara that hired Garrett…  
trueblueinpw : 9/3/2021 7:47 pm : link
But you’re correct, I don’t have any evidence that’s a fact. So, I’ll stand corrected, it is my unsubstantiated guess that Mara encouraged the hiring of Garrett.

Regarding the posters who think Judge is making personnel decisions, I think there’s a fairly large and hopeful contingent here that subscribe to that theory. Alas, it a theory, I may be dead wrong about this as well. But, either way, my point remains, Getty and the Mara’s have their hands all over this team. If anything, Judge probably has less influence than many of us suspect if for only the sheer enormity of the base responsibility for any NFL HC.
RE: RE: RE: John Mara and his family run the Giants, Getty is his GM…  
crick n NC : 9/3/2021 7:47 pm : link
In comment 15352438 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15352420 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 15352409 trueblueinpw said:


Quote:


I don’t think Judge is swinging some big dick around the Meadowlands and calling all the shots for the Giants. This doesn’t track with who Gettleman has always been and it certainly doesn’t track with who we know the Mara’s have always been. I think it’s just fantasy to think to that Judge is the secret leader of the New York Football Giants.

How does that even make any sense for a guy that was completely off anyone’s radar as a HC candidate? “Thanks Mr Mara, appreciate the HC offer but just one condition, I’ll be making the player personnel decisions.” And John Mara was like, “no problem Joe, you got carte blanche but we just have to pretend that me and Dave are making the decisions. Welcome aboard kid!”

And the Mara’s and Getty would agree to Judge’s supreme influence because… Wait, why would they agree to such enormous influence for Judge? His special teams coaching in NE? He worked for Saban plotting plays? Belichicks glowing recommendation? (And all the renowned success of Little Bill’s coaching tree)?

Or did Mara give Judge the keys to the Big Blue castle after last season’s stunning and unequivocal success for the first time ever HC Judge?

And from a practical standpoint how does this work? Getty and Chris Mara have Slater as the first pick but Judge stands up in the war rooms and overrules and picks KT? “Need more speed on offense guys. My call right John? Hey Chris, grab me a Coke while you’re up”.

Further, let’s say it's true and Judge is twirling his shvantz around the building and telling everyone what to do. What’s that say about the rest of the org? The second year head coach who finished with a losing record is now influencing all football decision? And this is our hope to turn things around?

Anyway…

I think Judge is going to be a good head coach. I do. But I’m not convinced he’ll be a successful HC for the Giants. Especially considering the way Getty has built out this roster. Aside from KA, how many GMs are going to want to come in and not be able to pick their own HC? And what if Judge doesn’t like the new GM? There’s a lot that can still go wrong for the Giants even if Judge is a really solid HC. It’s not how I would run the organization but, I don’t run it. And neither does Joe Judge. The Giants are run by John Mara and his family. And they probably always will be.



I don't even know of any posters claiming that Judge is making all of the personnel decisions.

The Giants claim collaboration. If that is the case, how do we know where praise and blame should be directed?

You stated it a fact that Mara hired Garrett.



You keep missing it. Posters have naturally gravitated towards Judge because he is new blood, sounds the part and took a bad roster last year and got a decent amount out of it. And maybe because they are just simply tired of hitching their wagon to Gettleman since he has been, well... awful.

But those posters though cannot just leave Getts behind altogether so they remark how good of a collaborative team Judge and Getts are. When it looks more and more like Judge is picking up the slack that is created by a poor GM. Getts still likely has too much involvement because, as mentioned before, there is a lot to do in running football operations, but at least its something that is being mitigating more and more.

Don't concern yourself with where blame and praise go if you can't see it. Just watch the Giants...


Who are these posters? Am I being unreasonable? Googs, you are assuming on someone's intent. If someone who you see as a defender starts praising judge for roster moves why are they automatically shifting to save face?
RE: RE: this poll is interesting but somewhat surprising  
Scooter185 : 9/3/2021 7:58 pm : link
In comment 15352418 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15352410 Eric on Li said:


Quote:


Daniel Jeremiah just tweeted this out.



Quote:


Daniel Jeremiah @MoveTheSticks
1h
Now that the rosters are set, good time to revisit-

Checklist for building a championship foundation in today's NFL
Role/Number of players
QB (1)
Pass rusher (2)
Off Playmaker (3)
Def Playmaker (3)
Quality OL (3)

Which teams hit every mark?




I really Jeremiah, but I think he has the wrong ranking.

QB #1 for sure. But I would put OL firmly #2.

In today's NFL, there is such a premium on scoring/offense that a quality OL makes it so much easier to play the game (along with the QB of course).


BW thats not a ranking, it's # of capable players at those positions
Scooter185...  
bw in dc : 9/3/2021 8:31 pm : link
You're right. Geesh, I really butchered that one. ;)
RE: RE: ...  
Mike in NY : 9/3/2021 8:52 pm : link
In comment 15352439 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15352422 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


No clue if Mara was instrumental in Garrett getting hired, but I believe John thinks very highly of JG so...who knows? I don't think he dissuaded JJ from hiring him, I'll put it like that.



I've always believed that Mara strongly encouraged Judge to take Garrett as his OC. Garrett has HC experience, knows the NFCE, played in the NFCE, and is a NJ guy. Seemed like the perfect set of training wheels - in Mara's eyes - to guide Judge through the learning curve as a first time ever HC.


Considering JG also has ties to Nick Saban I don’t think he remains this long unless Judge also gets a good report.
RE: Garbage poll  
jhibb : 9/3/2021 9:34 pm : link
In comment 15352389 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
40 percent of the voters said the Eagles were the best team in the NFC East.


Well, they never say who the five execs are, and only let you assume that they are even from five different teams. Two of the five could be Eagles execs. Or maybe even all five, with two being more realistic than the other three.

Really, this is all a lot of hubbub over five (FIVE!) whole unnamed "execs" (not a very specific title) and their worthless opinions.
RE: It seems fairly likely to me that Mara that hired Garrett…  
Jimmy Googs : 9/4/2021 7:39 am : link
In comment 15352447 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
But you’re correct, I don’t have any evidence that’s a fact. So, I’ll stand corrected, it is my unsubstantiated guess that Mara encouraged the hiring of Garrett.

Regarding the posters who think Judge is making personnel decisions, I think there’s a fairly large and hopeful contingent here that subscribe to that theory. Alas, it a theory, I may be dead wrong about this as well. But, either way, my point remains, Getty and the Mara’s have their hands all over this team. If anything, Judge probably has less influence than many of us suspect if for only the sheer enormity of the base responsibility for any NFL HC.


Agree with most of this. Although Judge is clearly being included and active in personnel decisions over past year, he is just not orchestrating them...that's the GM.
Oh, they are out there.  
Jimmy Googs : 9/4/2021 7:41 am : link
They just don't post about the GM much now, mostly Judge.
Who is Right?  
Jeffrey : 9/4/2021 7:54 am : link
Kind of depressing at the number of "experts" outside the Giants organization who still pan the Jones pick and the inability to build an offensive line. Not sure if they really put in the work to see what the Giants have in a coaching staff and some on field leaders (defense) but cannot deny that Jones, the OL, and the ability to have Barkley realize the potential that should come with a No. 2 selection are all major question marks. Hoping that DG really is the smartest guy in the room, but fear that he is just another old time loyalist picked by Mara who will hit on some moves, miss on more and ultimately guarantee mediocrity for another year.
 
ryanmkeane : 9/4/2021 10:35 am : link
Anyone listening to anything Michael Lombardi has to say about anything is a fool. The guy is a moron.
 
ryanmkeane : 9/4/2021 10:39 am : link
Some of you can’t help yourselves. Predictions from the media mean absolutely nothing.
What wins championships is a very good defense  
AnnapolisMike : 9/4/2021 11:19 am : link
and an offense that does enough without turning the ball over. I think the Giants have the defense...it's the offense which has all the question marks. If the Giants don't win two of the first four, it's going to be a very long season.
Daniel Jones  
cjac : 9/4/2021 9:34 pm : link
Is Jake Locker


He will get his opportunities the next 2 seasons but not sure what will happen to him after that.
RE: Daniel Jones  
Scooter185 : 9/4/2021 9:40 pm : link
In comment 15353158 cjac said:
Quote:
Is Jake Locker


He will get his opportunities the next 2 seasons but not sure what will happen to him after that.


If he doesn't take the leap this year I don't see him getting 2022 but also have his 5th year option declined. Especially because if he doesn't take a large leap there's likely going to be a new GM
RE: RE: ...  
BlueVinnie : 9/6/2021 10:06 am : link
In comment 15352439 bw in dc said:
Quote:



I've always believed that Mara strongly encouraged Judge to take Garrett as his OC. Garrett has HC experience, knows the NFCE, played in the NFCE, and is a NJ guy. Seemed like the perfect set of training wheels - in Mara's eyes - to guide Judge through the learning curve as a first time ever HC.


..And that's why I'm in the very small minority that are not fans of Judge. You do not hire a guy who needs "training wheels" to be the head coach of an NFL team. I'm not sure how you hire a guy who has no head coaching experience at the pro or college level (or as a pro offensive or defensive coordinator) to lead your football team. Apparently the only qualification necessary for a high level job in the Giants organization is whether Acorsi or Belichick like you.

Maybe someday Judge will become a successful head coach but I'm not a fan of the NY Giants being the training ground for that potential success. Give me a proven program builder at the college level (Matt Ruhle anyone?) or a young, innovative and successful coordinator of an NFL offense or defense.
Since it’s frowned upon to conjure up prior NYG seasons  
djm : 9/6/2021 8:23 pm : link
Where the team exceeded expectations, take 84,89,93,97,2000,2002 or 2005, I figured ok fine, let’s look at a year where NYG sucked and see how those pre season prognostications went. As usual, they are wrong.

2017 for your viewing pleasure.

NFC East
1. Dallas Cowboys (12-4)
2. New York Giants (10-6)
3. Philadelphia Eagles (6-10)
4. Washington Redskins (5-11)
2017 nfl preseason predictions - ( New Window )
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