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The offense likely won’t be good, we know, but…

UberAlias : 9/5/2021 11:47 am
Theoretically, we could have a very good running game, if Barkley is healthy. A few points to consider:
1) yes, our Oline is garbage. Until proven otherwise, that’s not unfair to say. But.. as a group, their issues are in pass pro, they are very capable in blocking for the run. Even Gallman averaged 4.6 a carry behind this group last year. I think we all agree, Gallman is no Barkley.
2) we added sever new additions at WR who can stretch the field —Galladay, Toney, Ross. All 3 are injured but we’ll get them out there at sone point. This will give defenses reason to consider simply stacking the box with defenders all game.
3) I understand Freddie Kitchens role is along the lines of run game coordinator. At the point I have a lot more faith in FK than I do JG.
4) the return of Saquon Barkley, obviously. I was against drafting a RB number 2 overall and still believe it was a poor choice. But I never doubted that SB is an exceptional player. He’s been a way it seems for a long time. I know I’ve forgotten just how good he can be back there. This kid can flat out play. So much negativity towards NYG offense right now. I’m not arguing against that. But I do think people have forgotten just how good and dynamic SB is. It’s time to remember.
Teams are going to be loading the box.....  
Simms11 : 9/5/2021 12:06 pm : link
daring the Giants to throw it with an inexperienced Oline. Giants will eventually have to show teams that they can throw the ball downfield otherwise games will be very tight. We can't afford another season of the offense scoring 17 points a game and expect a successful season.
I am hoping that we see the offense perform  
Jay on the Island : 9/5/2021 12:13 pm : link
Similar to Eli’s first few seasons. In several preseasons the starting offense was very vanilla and struggled to score points only to explode week one. IIRC this was the case in 2007 when the Giants lost to the Cowboys week one in a shootout.

Let’s hope that’s the case this year but it will obviously come down to the offensive line.
Looking forward to a thread about the  
Bill in UT : 9/5/2021 12:18 pm : link
Giants' offense that doesn't have the word "if" in it
dink.....dunk......  
thrunthrublue : 9/5/2021 12:19 pm : link
punt. at times it seems like Jason Garrett is still playing for the cowboys.
RE: Looking forward to a thread about the  
UberAlias : 9/5/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15353340 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
Giants' offense that doesn't have the word "if" in it
It’s football. That’s the reality for 32 teams. There are no certainties.
RE: dink.....dunk......  
UberAlias : 9/5/2021 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15353341 thrunthrublue said:
Quote:
punt. at times it seems like Jason Garrett is still playing for the cowboys.
. You either posted in wrong thread, or have serious reading challenges.
My take is this--  
Joe in CT : 9/5/2021 12:39 pm : link
The O line has capable players who can run block their detriment is PB, good communication and gaining confidence in one another is going to be key as the season progresses. Sure, we can still see 8 or 9 in the box but with Barkley we should still be able to manage some 8 to 20 yard gashes through most DEF's when our guys create the holes.

The key is going to continue to grow as a unit so we can be more multi dimensional and use the more mediate and long routes to compliment a good running game mixed in with some dink/dunk OFF. We may not see this better O line until week 4 or 5 but we should still be able to create enough OFF to win some of these games early on in the season.
Show us you can defeat a Cover Two  
JonC : 9/5/2021 12:40 pm : link
and go from there.
Most here like Judge  
dabru : 9/5/2021 1:01 pm : link
if he is the real deal it is up to him and the rest of the coaches to elevate the strengths and protect the weaknesses. A superior coaching staff can add wins. With more talent on the team vs last year I am looking for coaching/game planning to put us in the playoff hunt.
Offense likely  
section125 : 9/5/2021 1:16 pm : link
will not be good? Ok, that is pre-ordained...
Remember ...its September  
edavisiii : 9/5/2021 2:08 pm : link
We have the potential to get better as the season gets into colder weather if guys get and stay healthy. The three offensive lineman we picked up are good players. As they get up to speed, our OLine should improve. We have a chance to be real good on D and Specials. That with an OK offense could make us a decent team.
How do we KNOW the offense wont be good???  
John In CO : 9/5/2021 2:20 pm : link
We dont know jacksquat yet. Now, it is LIKELY the offense wont be good..yeah, but we dont know a damn thing. If we KNEW everything that we think we know, we would all just put money down behind our thoughts and we would all be millionaires. But...we cant. Cause we dont.
RE: How do we KNOW the offense wont be good???  
DannyDimes : 9/5/2021 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15353434 John In CO said:
Quote:
We dont know jacksquat yet. Now, it is LIKELY the offense wont be good..yeah, but we dont know a damn thing. If we KNEW everything that we think we know, we would all just put money down behind our thoughts and we would all be millionaires. But...we cant. Cause we dont.


Exactly. All the know-it-alls are a joke. You know nothing, just like I know nothing. We'll see....
You people suck  
UberAlias : 9/5/2021 3:08 pm : link
Reading comprehension and replying on topic clearly not a strength.
If they put 8-9 in the box and we can’t throw,  
CV36 : 9/5/2021 3:18 pm : link
We are doomed. Iim tired of excuses. Every team I. The league has issues somewhere. Some still find a way to win. We need to win.
You re correct about Giants run game  
joeinpa : 9/5/2021 3:46 pm : link
Improving Larson the season. You re also correct about Barkley having the ability to be special

I m probably wrong about this, but I think there is a chance Barkley s influence will be in hitting but play s Gallman could never do.

But Gallman puts his head down and takes what yardage is available

Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman.
If the OL is good at  
Dave on the UWS : 9/5/2021 4:20 pm : link
run blocking then you can’t say they are garbage.
RE: Teams are going to be loading the box.....  
Zeke's Alibi : 9/5/2021 4:48 pm : link
In comment 15353330 Simms11 said:
Quote:
daring the Giants to throw it with an inexperienced Oline. Giants will eventually have to show teams that they can throw the ball downfield otherwise games will be very tight. We can't afford another season of the offense scoring 17 points a game and expect a successful season.


This is why we drafted Toney and signed KG. We can’t pass protect long enough to get the ball down the field, but KG gives you a nice safety blanket and KT can do special things with the ball in his hand 1v1.

Do you actually have faith in a our line to pass protect long enough against stacked boxes to take downfield shots? I certainly don’t unless we are max protect or occasional play action.
 
christian : 9/5/2021 5:41 pm : link
The Giants ran play action on nearly 20% of pass attempts last year.

With Barkley back, and presumably better 3rd down/distances — I’d expect the Giants to be in play action even more this year.
I hope they'll be better than I fear they will.  
TC : 9/5/2021 5:55 pm : link
Assuming Saquon will be healthy enough to play, and continue to play, I hope his use is not to slam between the tackles for negligible gains and dance behind the LOS for 90% or his touches, while reeling off his two or three highlight runs per game that provide gaudy stats, but have negligible effect on the outcome of games. The man does not like contact! Either change your game plan and use him in space, or get somebody else. Who? Good question! Booker runs like he's got concrete blocks strapped to his feet, and Penny is a dubious RB. Maybe Brightwell can show something. He had some zip in preseason. Giants rookie RB's often show promise, before that's corrected.

I have no problem with dink and dunk, but that requires precision passing and timing. The only Giants WR that shown this level of precision with some consistency is Shep. But Jones has to let the ball go and stop reloading! Downfield? Can Engram emerge and hang on to the ball, assuming he's not already succumbed to his annual season ending or impairing non-contact injury? Can Slayton get open and hang onto the ball? Will Golliday get well and produce? Will Toney play football?

I know it was just a snippet of play in a preseason game but it looked like - meet the new Giants offense, same as the old Giants offense.


Completely understand UA's frustration with  
ColHowPepper : 9/5/2021 6:05 pm : link
the way this thread went off the rails. UA is way more than a consistently solid poster. The comments at 2:20 and 2:33 extracted <one> word from a reasoned OP and went off on their pre-ordained benders, utterly ignoring the plain thrust of the OP and injecting their pet pique, frustration, or bile, whatever.

Sure, the Giants' offense has been offensive and a source of frustration for the better part of a decade, with some exceptions, during the predominant part of which the OL has been horrid. The OP imo sought to extract some reasons for optimism in the run game and hope that, along with '21 personnel changes, these can mitigate, a bit, the all-too-evident weakness in the passing game.

JonC's comment, among others, gets to the heart of the matter and it peels back the conundrum: with receivers who can stretch the field, will they + DJ + OL be able to persuade defenses to back off 8 in the box? Will there be time for the QB to get throws off that make defenses change their scheme? Prove it to us. I've been of the view that the added offensive weaponry can't perform as intended if the OL remains as porous as it has been. We got KG, we got KR, ok, now enhance the chances they make a difference, enhance the chances that SB has holes to attack and is not dropped as soon as he takes the handoff. I disagreed with the tactical choices made in the draft, never mind the effective no show of during pre-season of our #1 pick. I don't like either what, seems to me, the high incidence of injuries/medical issues in new personnel. I have a hard time believing that they will just dissipate this season.

Disclosure: my bent is toward pessimism, ask by spouse. (:
Offense  
stretch234 : 9/5/2021 6:15 pm : link
Golliday replaces Tate and is the 1

Slayton moves to the 2 - he has proven he can’t be a 1

Shep returns to his best position

Rudolph is light years better than any other 2nd TE they have had

Barkley replaces Gallman, Morris, etc, etc who couldn’t outrun the tackling dummy

Barkley gets the same run blocking he turns those 8-10 yard runs into 30, plus he can catch

Engram becomes a much better receiver because they can keep him on the run and moving where he is better. Rudolph can do Garrett curl special

The skill personnel is much much better and I think the OL will be fine….I think they can actually try and takes shots and pressure the defense with their skill people
I think one of the main  
TrueBlue56 : 9/5/2021 6:19 pm : link
objectives of the offseason was to counter against opposing teams loading the box against barkley. He was the only legitimate threat we had on offense last year. We have a lot of options with the run game. Sweeps with toney, rpo with Daniel Jones. We even saw sterling shepard on a reverse last year as well as the preseason. Just the fact that we can stretch the field will give defenses pause, especially when a long run is broken.

Now you add golladay and rudolph and you have players that will fight for the ball and get the tough yardage. I think shepard is going to have a big year playing the slot and might be the best wide receiver stat wise.

I keep hearing about injuries, but the only injury that concerns me is a season ending injury. Anything other than that, then the player or players will return and play this year. I really believe this offense is going to surprise more than a few teams and people on here by some of the comments I have seen
TB'56  
ColHowPepper : 9/5/2021 6:49 pm : link
hope you're right. But....: an additional issue that has been prevalent for years is inability to seal the edge and get outside, whether it's KT, SS, or SB. A big part of that is and has been the inability of the OL and poor blocking from the TE position.
You pay lip service to the OL problems  
WillVAB : 9/5/2021 6:57 pm : link
Then go on to say the offense should be improved because of Barkley. That’s not how this works. He’s not a back who’s going to transcend poor OL play. He never has and never will.

The offense is going to come down to the OL, full stop. If they can get their shit together and be decent there’s no reason why Jones, Barkley, and the rest of the toys can’t have a good year. If the OL sucks ass the rest of the offense will suck ass.
Attention to detail Will  
UberAlias : 9/5/2021 7:18 pm : link
That’s not what I said.
CHP  
UberAlias : 9/5/2021 7:22 pm : link
Thank you for kind words.

Some folks struggle to compartmentalize. Topic is not NYG offense.
RE: Teams are going to be loading the box.....  
bw in dc : 9/5/2021 7:25 pm : link
In comment 15353330 Simms11 said:
Quote:
daring the Giants to throw it with an inexperienced Oline. Giants will eventually have to show teams that they can throw the ball downfield otherwise games will be very tight. We can't afford another season of the offense scoring 17 points a game and expect a successful season.


This is essentially what Pittsburgh and the Bears committed to in the first two weeks last season. Hunt down Barkley and force Jones to make plays.

If I'm a DC, that's certainly where I'm starting off this year as well.
RE: Attention to detail Will  
WillVAB : 9/5/2021 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15353621 UberAlias said:
Quote:
That’s not what I said.


I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.

Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.

Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.
 
christian : 9/5/2021 7:58 pm : link
Three fifths of the line from last year’s nice spurt of ground games aren’t likely to suit up week one.

It’s a pretty different line and completely different backs.

Other than the shirts, there’s not much to compare.
How good can the offense be  
Colin@gbn : 9/5/2021 8:01 pm : link
I really don't like making predictions; there was an old NHL coach who rightly said 'they were for gypsies!' So I'm going to let the games play out and see where we stand. That said I believe there are a couple of misconceptions being bounced around. One is that the Giants offense in general and the OL in particular has been pretty bad throughout this decade. We ran a piece on the GBN a couple of weeks that showed, that at least from a statistical perspective, it was seldom terrible. They were in fact top 10 in both of Odell's first years (2014 and 2015) and Eli actually had one of the better of his career in 2018 with Odell back from injury and Saquon in the lineup. In the end, the conclusion one came away from going over those numbers was that offense at worst this decade was middle of the pack and almost all of the year-to-year variation (and there was a lot) was predicated almost exclusively on whether Eli had some prime targets or not.

However, people tended to conflate how well the offense worked with their W-L record which wasn't very good obviously but it appears the unit that was pretty bad most of the 2010s was the defense.

Which brings us to 2020 what the Giants offense was pretty anemic. And you certainly had opponents bringing 8-9-even 10 guys into the box. They did so not because the OL was bad, but because simply had no one who scared them deep.

Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.

My guess is that the Giants are going to see them play them way more straight up next fall. In fact, put your 3-4 wides out and the other team will pretty much have to counter with 4 corners and almost assuredly will want to keep a couple of safeties over the top if the Giants are able to keep their top guys healthy and on the field. And I suspect you will a lot of teams rushing four. Obviously your OL has to hold up against the 4 and we'll see. But if they don't there are things you can do. Keep an extra blocker in; get rid of the ball quicker and worse come to worse if one or two of your guys aren't getting the job done use some of your draft capital to go out and find someone who can.

Again we'll have to wait and see. Its why they play the games. But the Giants have, at least on paper, an offense that could be very hard o defend. You have explosive underneath gadget guys like Saquon, Toney and Engram, a couple of good medium threats in Golladay and Slayton and a couple of more ball security safety blanket types in Shep and Rudolph. And we haven't even mentioned the run game if #26 is anywhere close to 100%. What are you going to cover.

Should be fun!!
How much difference did Barkley make in 2018?  
Go Terps : 9/5/2021 8:01 pm : link
I think it's likely he never approaches those statistical totals again; and what did it do for the offense?

You want the Giants to score points and win games? Fix Jones's head, protect him, and throw the ball down the field. Barkley isn't going to make much difference.
 
christian : 9/5/2021 8:06 pm : link
Colin — I’m interested in what the numbers say RE: the number of times defenses played 8+ guys against the Giants in the box. Is that data you have?
RE: How much difference did Barkley make in 2018?  
Old Blue : 9/5/2021 8:14 pm : link
In comment 15353653 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I think it's likely he never approaches those statistical totals again; and what did it do for the offense?

You want the Giants to score points and win games? Fix Jones's head, protect him, and throw the ball down the field. Barkley isn't going to make much difference.


Well said. If you can’t throw the ball you won’t have a offense, and with this O line, and this QB you won’t have any offense.
RE: How good can the offense be  
bw in dc : 9/5/2021 8:28 pm : link
In comment 15353652 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:


Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.



I'm saying DCs are going to defend the Giants by focusing on stopping Barkley - a proven playmaker - and forcing Jones, a third year QB who isn't a proven playmaker, to beat them.

You don't need to overload the box to accomplish that.

And, frankly, that's just smart football. Are teams really going to be scared of KG until he shows he is back to 2019 form? What the hell has Toney done to scare a DC? EE is a mixed bag. Who the hell knows what Rudolph has left. Is Slayton keeping DCs up at night? I like Shep, but he's not a top 25 WR in this league yet.

Oh, and we have an OL, that looks like one of the biggest question marks in the league.

Yes, if I'm a DC I want Jones and this passing attack to demonstrate they are competent...
You can put Jerry Rice, Lance Alworth and Terrell Owens  
Jimmy Googs : 9/5/2021 8:49 pm : link
out there. Until you show you are running plays to take it deeper, pass protect well enough to allow it to happen and make throws and catches to beat a defense,

expect all eyes to be on Saquon.

Case closed...
RE: You can put Jerry Rice, Lance Alworth and Terrell Owens  
Old Blue : 9/5/2021 8:54 pm : link
In comment 15353683 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
out there. Until you show you are running plays to take it deeper, pass protect well enough to allow it to happen and make throws and catches to beat a defense,

expect all eyes to be on Saquon.

Case closed...


Don’t forget Homer Jones.
So, DC are going to concentrate on stopping Saquon  
BillT : 9/6/2021 9:08 am : link
Which we’ve seen before. And they may succeed. But, in doing so they have to allocate resources to him and not others. This year our “others” include the most talented offensive group we’ve had in years and a unit that compares to other good units in the league. You can’t stop everyone. That’s the difference and the difference Saquon makes to this offense. We’ve seen it before in DJ’s first year.
RE: How good can the offense be  
KingBlue : 9/6/2021 9:12 am : link
In comment 15353652 Colin@gbn said:
Quote:
I really don't like making predictions; there was an old NHL coach who rightly said 'they were for gypsies!' So I'm going to let the games play out and see where we stand. That said I believe there are a couple of misconceptions being bounced around. One is that the Giants offense in general and the OL in particular has been pretty bad throughout this decade. We ran a piece on the GBN a couple of weeks that showed, that at least from a statistical perspective, it was seldom terrible. They were in fact top 10 in both of Odell's first years (2014 and 2015) and Eli actually had one of the better of his career in 2018 with Odell back from injury and Saquon in the lineup. In the end, the conclusion one came away from going over those numbers was that offense at worst this decade was middle of the pack and almost all of the year-to-year variation (and there was a lot) was predicated almost exclusively on whether Eli had some prime targets or not.

However, people tended to conflate how well the offense worked with their W-L record which wasn't very good obviously but it appears the unit that was pretty bad most of the 2010s was the defense.

Which brings us to 2020 what the Giants offense was pretty anemic. And you certainly had opponents bringing 8-9-even 10 guys into the box. They did so not because the OL was bad, but because simply had no one who scared them deep.

Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.

My guess is that the Giants are going to see them play them way more straight up next fall. In fact, put your 3-4 wides out and the other team will pretty much have to counter with 4 corners and almost assuredly will want to keep a couple of safeties over the top if the Giants are able to keep their top guys healthy and on the field. And I suspect you will a lot of teams rushing four. Obviously your OL has to hold up against the 4 and we'll see. But if they don't there are things you can do. Keep an extra blocker in; get rid of the ball quicker and worse come to worse if one or two of your guys aren't getting the job done use some of your draft capital to go out and find someone who can.

Again we'll have to wait and see. Its why they play the games. But the Giants have, at least on paper, an offense that could be very hard o defend. You have explosive underneath gadget guys like Saquon, Toney and Engram, a couple of good medium threats in Golladay and Slayton and a couple of more ball security safety blanket types in Shep and Rudolph. And we haven't even mentioned the run game if #26 is anywhere close to 100%. What are you going to cover.

Should be fun!!


Great post, Colin. I agree it should be fun.
Putting 4 or 5 WRs out there isn’t some sure fire way to win  
cosmicj : 9/6/2021 9:34 am : link
If it was, NFL teams would use it as a base formation. Using those WR loaded formations involves trade offs and defenses know how to counter them. And the Giants OL pass blocking and Jones slow reads and propensity for turnovers is exactly the combination of weaknesses that make these formations riverboat gambling for the Giants.

@Colin- I’ve read your blog for years and like it but this comment comes close to being delusional. Sorry, friend.
RE: Putting 4 or 5 WRs out there isn’t some sure fire way to win  
TrueBlue56 : 9/6/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15353878 cosmicj said:
Quote:
If it was, NFL teams would use it as a base formation. Using those WR loaded formations involves trade offs and defenses know how to counter them. And the Giants OL pass blocking and Jones slow reads and propensity for turnovers is exactly the combination of weaknesses that make these formations riverboat gambling for the Giants.

@Colin- I’ve read your blog for years and like it but this comment comes close to being delusional. Sorry, friend.


Last year we had no off e that could get seperation. Tate was not a threat, Slayton was not a #1 WR and shepard was playing out of position.

Golladay can make the contested catches, toney has quickness and can make guys miss. Shepard is so much better served in the slot. Rudolph will provide a safety valve and again make the contested catches. We have 3 or 4 legitimate threats in the running game with Barkley, jones, toney and shepard and will run plays to all areas of the field. Off left tackle, reverses, rpo's. The idea is to put defenses on their heels in more of a read and react defense instead of a pin theirvears back and attack the offensive line.

You can point out all of the negatives and keep harping on them, but these players including Daniel Jones have positives too.

Joe judge has said many times, "don't tell me what the player can't do, tell me what they can do." This offense has big play ability and can strike anywhere on the field especially if the defense is caught being too aggressive.
Sure, having better skill players (hate that term) will help us  
cosmicj : 9/6/2021 9:57 am : link
But Colin was specifically pointing to WR-heavy formations. Those are very unsuited to the Giants offensive capabilities (or lack of them).

I didn’t even mention the unimpressive pass blocking skills of the Giants RBs, which is key to making 3- and 4-WR sets work.
On the other hand  
Colin@gbn : 9/6/2021 10:07 am : link
Interesting comment and you certainly make some valid points. I would counter by saying that most teams in fact now run a 3-WR set as their base offense, which I would certainly expect the Giants to do this year. And with a TE like Engram and RB like Saquon you have guys who can slide outside and give you a potentially scary 4-5 receiver look pretty easily, although of course as several people mentioned above, the players still have to make it work.

What the Giants have potentially though is a very unique skill set at their skill positions. They have the deep threats in Golladay and Slayton, the gadget guys like #26, Toney and Engram that can turn a 5-yard completion into a 50-yarder in a heartbeat and the safety valve types in Shepherd and Rudolph. And I am not sure outside of Kansas City that there are many teams that have that range of skill.

Again, the players have to make it work, but this looks like an offense that has been built to give chunk plays. And in this day and age its chunk plays that win games. My one real fear is that the base game plan thinking will be 'let's get 4 yards on first down to make converting on 3rd easier.' Best way to convert 3rd downs is don't get to third down!
RE: RE: Attention to detail Will  
UberAlias : 9/6/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15353648 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 15353621 UberAlias said:


Quote:


That’s not what I said.



I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.

Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.

Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.
I didn’t go on to say the offense will be improved because of Barkley. I specifically said the offense will likely be bad. The thread is about run game specifically. The run game was ranked 19 last year. Not good, but not the utter disaster the offense was on whole. What would be shitty logic would be to assume that with the addition of Barkley and WRs capable of stretching the field the run game won’t improve. Not to mention another year of development from the QB in the same system a full offseason improvements in coaching and another year of Oline playing as a unit. Completely dismissing all of that — now there is shitty logic
Crazy that  
Les in TO : 9/6/2021 10:12 am : link
We expect the offense to be garbage after investing 4 consecutive top 10 picks on offense, emptied the piggy bank for Golloday and have first/second round pick weapons in Engram and Shepard.
RE: RE: RE: Attention to detail Will  
WillVAB : 9/6/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15353921 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 15353648 WillVAB said:


Quote:


In comment 15353621 UberAlias said:


Quote:


That’s not what I said.



I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.

Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.

Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.

I didn’t go on to say the offense will be improved because of Barkley. I specifically said the offense will likely be bad. The thread is about run game specifically. The run game was ranked 19 last year. Not good, but not the utter disaster the offense was on whole. What would be shitty logic would be to assume that with the addition of Barkley and WRs capable of stretching the field the run game won’t improve. Not to mention another year of development from the QB in the same system a full offseason improvements in coaching and another year of Oline playing as a unit. Completely dismissing all of that — now there is shitty logic


The run game is going to come down to the OL. The entire offense really. I don’t see how this is so difficult to comprehend.

The starting 5 on Sunday isn’t going to be the same starting 5 who played last year. Even if it were the same starting 5, there’s been nothing to suggest they’ve improved individually or as a unit. Gates is the only sure thing on the OL right now.

We will see on Sunday. These sorts of posts/comments are just blowing smoke up fans asses at this point.
RE: You re correct about Giants run game  
GeofromNJ : 9/6/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15353496 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Improving Larson the season. You re also correct about Barkley having the ability to be special

I m probably wrong about this, but I think there is a chance Barkley s influence will be in hitting but play s Gallman could never do.

But Gallman puts his head down and takes what yardage is available

Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman.

"Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman."

This is also my fear. Dancing and being tackled behind the LOS. Not uncommon with SB.
They'll  
BigBlueinDE : 9/6/2021 12:59 pm : link
improve as the season progresses. Of course, the line is the key and if they struggle which I think they will at first it will tough.

As they settle in and mature, you'll see them get better. Golladay alluded to this in his press conference not too long ago.
Why was Jason Garrett hired by the Giants?  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/7/2021 11:25 pm : link
Did Joe Judge want him here? or was it a Gettleman choice? I would rather have Joe Judge choose his OC. If Garrett did the job on the offense that Graham does on the defense then the team would look better. Garrett is a f**king loser! Dump him, and let JJ choose his OC!
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