Theoretically, we could have a very good running game, if Barkley is healthy. A few points to consider:
1) yes, our Oline is garbage. Until proven otherwise, that’s not unfair to say. But.. as a group, their issues are in pass pro, they are very capable in blocking for the run. Even Gallman averaged 4.6 a carry behind this group last year. I think we all agree, Gallman is no Barkley.
2) we added sever new additions at WR who can stretch the field —Galladay, Toney, Ross. All 3 are injured but we’ll get them out there at sone point. This will give defenses reason to consider simply stacking the box with defenders all game.
3) I understand Freddie Kitchens role is along the lines of run game coordinator. At the point I have a lot more faith in FK than I do JG.
4) the return of Saquon Barkley, obviously. I was against drafting a RB number 2 overall and still believe it was a poor choice. But I never doubted that SB is an exceptional player. He’s been a way it seems for a long time. I know I’ve forgotten just how good he can be back there. This kid can flat out play. So much negativity towards NYG offense right now. I’m not arguing against that. But I do think people have forgotten just how good and dynamic SB is. It’s time to remember.
Let’s hope that’s the case this year but it will obviously come down to the offensive line.
The key is going to continue to grow as a unit so we can be more multi dimensional and use the more mediate and long routes to compliment a good running game mixed in with some dink/dunk OFF. We may not see this better O line until week 4 or 5 but we should still be able to create enough OFF to win some of these games early on in the season.
Exactly. All the know-it-alls are a joke. You know nothing, just like I know nothing. We'll see....
I m probably wrong about this, but I think there is a chance Barkley s influence will be in hitting but play s Gallman could never do.
But Gallman puts his head down and takes what yardage is available
Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman.
This is why we drafted Toney and signed KG. We can’t pass protect long enough to get the ball down the field, but KG gives you a nice safety blanket and KT can do special things with the ball in his hand 1v1.
Do you actually have faith in a our line to pass protect long enough against stacked boxes to take downfield shots? I certainly don’t unless we are max protect or occasional play action.
With Barkley back, and presumably better 3rd down/distances — I’d expect the Giants to be in play action even more this year.
I have no problem with dink and dunk, but that requires precision passing and timing. The only Giants WR that shown this level of precision with some consistency is Shep. But Jones has to let the ball go and stop reloading! Downfield? Can Engram emerge and hang on to the ball, assuming he's not already succumbed to his annual season ending or impairing non-contact injury? Can Slayton get open and hang onto the ball? Will Golliday get well and produce? Will Toney play football?
I know it was just a snippet of play in a preseason game but it looked like - meet the new Giants offense, same as the old Giants offense.
Sure, the Giants' offense has been offensive and a source of frustration for the better part of a decade, with some exceptions, during the predominant part of which the OL has been horrid. The OP imo sought to extract some reasons for optimism in the run game and hope that, along with '21 personnel changes, these can mitigate, a bit, the all-too-evident weakness in the passing game.
JonC's comment, among others, gets to the heart of the matter and it peels back the conundrum: with receivers who can stretch the field, will they + DJ + OL be able to persuade defenses to back off 8 in the box? Will there be time for the QB to get throws off that make defenses change their scheme? Prove it to us. I've been of the view that the added offensive weaponry can't perform as intended if the OL remains as porous as it has been. We got KG, we got KR, ok, now enhance the chances they make a difference, enhance the chances that SB has holes to attack and is not dropped as soon as he takes the handoff. I disagreed with the tactical choices made in the draft, never mind the effective no show of during pre-season of our #1 pick. I don't like either what, seems to me, the high incidence of injuries/medical issues in new personnel. I have a hard time believing that they will just dissipate this season.
Disclosure: my bent is toward pessimism, ask by spouse. (:
Slayton moves to the 2 - he has proven he can’t be a 1
Shep returns to his best position
Rudolph is light years better than any other 2nd TE they have had
Barkley replaces Gallman, Morris, etc, etc who couldn’t outrun the tackling dummy
Barkley gets the same run blocking he turns those 8-10 yard runs into 30, plus he can catch
Engram becomes a much better receiver because they can keep him on the run and moving where he is better. Rudolph can do Garrett curl special
The skill personnel is much much better and I think the OL will be fine….I think they can actually try and takes shots and pressure the defense with their skill people
Now you add golladay and rudolph and you have players that will fight for the ball and get the tough yardage. I think shepard is going to have a big year playing the slot and might be the best wide receiver stat wise.
I keep hearing about injuries, but the only injury that concerns me is a season ending injury. Anything other than that, then the player or players will return and play this year. I really believe this offense is going to surprise more than a few teams and people on here by some of the comments I have seen
The offense is going to come down to the OL, full stop. If they can get their shit together and be decent there’s no reason why Jones, Barkley, and the rest of the toys can’t have a good year. If the OL sucks ass the rest of the offense will suck ass.
Some folks struggle to compartmentalize. Topic is not NYG offense.
This is essentially what Pittsburgh and the Bears committed to in the first two weeks last season. Hunt down Barkley and force Jones to make plays.
If I'm a DC, that's certainly where I'm starting off this year as well.
I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.
Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.
Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.
It’s a pretty different line and completely different backs.
Other than the shirts, there’s not much to compare.
However, people tended to conflate how well the offense worked with their W-L record which wasn't very good obviously but it appears the unit that was pretty bad most of the 2010s was the defense.
Which brings us to 2020 what the Giants offense was pretty anemic. And you certainly had opponents bringing 8-9-even 10 guys into the box. They did so not because the OL was bad, but because simply had no one who scared them deep.
Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.
My guess is that the Giants are going to see them play them way more straight up next fall. In fact, put your 3-4 wides out and the other team will pretty much have to counter with 4 corners and almost assuredly will want to keep a couple of safeties over the top if the Giants are able to keep their top guys healthy and on the field. And I suspect you will a lot of teams rushing four. Obviously your OL has to hold up against the 4 and we'll see. But if they don't there are things you can do. Keep an extra blocker in; get rid of the ball quicker and worse come to worse if one or two of your guys aren't getting the job done use some of your draft capital to go out and find someone who can.
Again we'll have to wait and see. Its why they play the games. But the Giants have, at least on paper, an offense that could be very hard o defend. You have explosive underneath gadget guys like Saquon, Toney and Engram, a couple of good medium threats in Golladay and Slayton and a couple of more ball security safety blanket types in Shep and Rudolph. And we haven't even mentioned the run game if #26 is anywhere close to 100%. What are you going to cover.
Should be fun!!
You want the Giants to score points and win games? Fix Jones's head, protect him, and throw the ball down the field. Barkley isn't going to make much difference.
You want the Giants to score points and win games? Fix Jones's head, protect him, and throw the ball down the field. Barkley isn't going to make much difference.
Well said. If you can’t throw the ball you won’t have a offense, and with this O line, and this QB you won’t have any offense.
Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.
I'm saying DCs are going to defend the Giants by focusing on stopping Barkley - a proven playmaker - and forcing Jones, a third year QB who isn't a proven playmaker, to beat them.
You don't need to overload the box to accomplish that.
And, frankly, that's just smart football. Are teams really going to be scared of KG until he shows he is back to 2019 form? What the hell has Toney done to scare a DC? EE is a mixed bag. Who the hell knows what Rudolph has left. Is Slayton keeping DCs up at night? I like Shep, but he's not a top 25 WR in this league yet.
Oh, and we have an OL, that looks like one of the biggest question marks in the league.
Yes, if I'm a DC I want Jones and this passing attack to demonstrate they are competent...
expect all eyes to be on Saquon.
Case closed...
expect all eyes to be on Saquon.
Case closed...
Don’t forget Homer Jones.
However, people tended to conflate how well the offense worked with their W-L record which wasn't very good obviously but it appears the unit that was pretty bad most of the 2010s was the defense.
Which brings us to 2020 what the Giants offense was pretty anemic. And you certainly had opponents bringing 8-9-even 10 guys into the box. They did so not because the OL was bad, but because simply had no one who scared them deep.
Are you going to tell me that other teams are really going to bring 8-9 guys into the box if the Giants put 4 wides on the field with Golladay (and hopefully) a healthy Slayton on the outside and Toney and Engram or Shep in the slots and Saquon lining up all the field. If they do the Giants are absolutely salivating. That means all your receivers are going to be in single coverage with no help over the top. Just get them the ball and force the other team to make tackle after tackle and wish 'em luck. If they make those tackles you say good game; if they don't your going to get a bunch of chunk plays and I really like my odds.
My guess is that the Giants are going to see them play them way more straight up next fall. In fact, put your 3-4 wides out and the other team will pretty much have to counter with 4 corners and almost assuredly will want to keep a couple of safeties over the top if the Giants are able to keep their top guys healthy and on the field. And I suspect you will a lot of teams rushing four. Obviously your OL has to hold up against the 4 and we'll see. But if they don't there are things you can do. Keep an extra blocker in; get rid of the ball quicker and worse come to worse if one or two of your guys aren't getting the job done use some of your draft capital to go out and find someone who can.
Again we'll have to wait and see. Its why they play the games. But the Giants have, at least on paper, an offense that could be very hard o defend. You have explosive underneath gadget guys like Saquon, Toney and Engram, a couple of good medium threats in Golladay and Slayton and a couple of more ball security safety blanket types in Shep and Rudolph. And we haven't even mentioned the run game if #26 is anywhere close to 100%. What are you going to cover.
Should be fun!!
Great post, Colin. I agree it should be fun.
@Colin- I’ve read your blog for years and like it but this comment comes close to being delusional. Sorry, friend.
@Colin- I’ve read your blog for years and like it but this comment comes close to being delusional. Sorry, friend.
Last year we had no off e that could get seperation. Tate was not a threat, Slayton was not a #1 WR and shepard was playing out of position.
Golladay can make the contested catches, toney has quickness and can make guys miss. Shepard is so much better served in the slot. Rudolph will provide a safety valve and again make the contested catches. We have 3 or 4 legitimate threats in the running game with Barkley, jones, toney and shepard and will run plays to all areas of the field. Off left tackle, reverses, rpo's. The idea is to put defenses on their heels in more of a read and react defense instead of a pin theirvears back and attack the offensive line.
You can point out all of the negatives and keep harping on them, but these players including Daniel Jones have positives too.
Joe judge has said many times, "don't tell me what the player can't do, tell me what they can do." This offense has big play ability and can strike anywhere on the field especially if the defense is caught being too aggressive.
I didn’t even mention the unimpressive pass blocking skills of the Giants RBs, which is key to making 3- and 4-WR sets work.
What the Giants have potentially though is a very unique skill set at their skill positions. They have the deep threats in Golladay and Slayton, the gadget guys like #26, Toney and Engram that can turn a 5-yard completion into a 50-yarder in a heartbeat and the safety valve types in Shepherd and Rudolph. And I am not sure outside of Kansas City that there are many teams that have that range of skill.
Again, the players have to make it work, but this looks like an offense that has been built to give chunk plays. And in this day and age its chunk plays that win games. My one real fear is that the base game plan thinking will be 'let's get 4 yards on first down to make converting on 3rd easier.' Best way to convert 3rd downs is don't get to third down!
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That’s not what I said.
I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.
Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.
Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.
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In comment 15353621 UberAlias said:
Quote:
That’s not what I said.
I read what you said. You’re assuming the OL will be passable as a run blocking unit because they had a few decent games late last year. That’s shitty logic given the sample size and the fact that two of the starters will likely be different.
Additionally, you can’t assume a direct correlation with Barkley’s production. There were a ton of Freeman/Gallman runs last year where Barkley wouldn’t have been able to duplicate due to style differences. There were also some runs where I wish we had Barkley bc he would’ve taken it to the house.
Bottom line is we need to see the OL in action when it matters to know what we’re dealing with on offense. Right now they look like shit which is why there’s a lot of justifiable pessimism about the offense as a whole. It’s really that simple and none of these shiny toys are going to matter if the OL is trash.
I didn’t go on to say the offense will be improved because of Barkley. I specifically said the offense will likely be bad. The thread is about run game specifically. The run game was ranked 19 last year. Not good, but not the utter disaster the offense was on whole. What would be shitty logic would be to assume that with the addition of Barkley and WRs capable of stretching the field the run game won’t improve. Not to mention another year of development from the QB in the same system a full offseason improvements in coaching and another year of Oline playing as a unit. Completely dismissing all of that — now there is shitty logic
The run game is going to come down to the OL. The entire offense really. I don’t see how this is so difficult to comprehend.
The starting 5 on Sunday isn’t going to be the same starting 5 who played last year. Even if it were the same starting 5, there’s been nothing to suggest they’ve improved individually or as a unit. Gates is the only sure thing on the OL right now.
We will see on Sunday. These sorts of posts/comments are just blowing smoke up fans asses at this point.
I m probably wrong about this, but I think there is a chance Barkley s influence will be in hitting but play s Gallman could never do.
But Gallman puts his head down and takes what yardage is available
Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman.
"Not sure Barkley, who dances a lot looking for the big play, won’t have more negative runs than Gallman."
This is also my fear. Dancing and being tackled behind the LOS. Not uncommon with SB.
As they settle in and mature, you'll see them get better. Golladay alluded to this in his press conference not too long ago.