And this explanation is why 99.9% of us fans just talk out our A44es. We know nothing about the game compared to many of those that have played, spent years studying film and know each player's job on the field.
Watch Chris Simms explain the play:
https://twitter.com/csimmsqb/status/1433152050985066496?s=21
That said, I am glad you found this clip and posted it.
This may be the most discussed/argued about INT in the history of NFL preseason... lol
Simms on INT - ( New Window )
I know people have talked about this play ad nauseam, but that only proves the point. It's one exhibition play. It also involves EE which is where many of the problems arise. I've played the game for many years and it's amazing to me how many mistakes this guy makes. Some people just don't have a feel for the game. Unfortunately, I think he's one of them.
He also made a very poor block on the play before that If I remember the series of plays correctly.
Thanks for th link. I would never take the time to break a play down like that.
or if EE blocks his LB on the Booker running play from the 1 we aren't talking about this
If the guy isn’t open in the red zone and you don’t think you can run it in, throw the fucking ball out of bounds.
If the guy isn’t open in the red zone and you don’t think you can run it in, throw the fucking ball out of bounds.
lol. So Chris Simms is making excuses?
I believe it was 6.
EE is on judge at this point.
He is a coach killer, a QB killer, a turnover machine, offense killer, team killer, loser. stop playing him.
his injury might be the best thing the giants have towards winning week 1.
I can only hope this year DJ throws so few that there's not a great need for this.
He has to get better when a play breaks down (Engram's poor route running, OL protection breakdown, etc.) and make smarter decisions. Living to fight another down I believe proves to be a wiser choice than that throw.
It was well covered, but Engram needs to use his speed to try to beat that backer to the sideline. DJ needs to throw it away, but Engram needs to learn how to play in his sandbox. If that’s Rudolph, sure sit in the hole and give him a giant target to throw to.
What’s worse is that if Engram continues to the sideline it forces the backer to cover DJ running or Engram in end zone.
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Who excuse monger for every mistake Jones makes are the one’s not looking at matters objectively? Nah
If the guy isn’t open in the red zone and you don’t think you can run it in, throw the fucking ball out of bounds.
lol. So Chris Simms is making excuses?
It is not about who did what. It is about decision making. You can explain anything away you work hard enough. Situational football, he has 2 more downs to work with, why try throwing across your body on a full sprint with your TE covered on all sides. Why take that chance if both you and the TE are not on the same page. Stop with the excuses.
I’ll wait until the regular season starts and is a few games in to get a feel for Jones and the new offense. Dissecting a preseason play is fairly pointless.
The starting QB plays his only snaps all preseason, practices are virtually shut off to fans now- so it’s all we have until game 1.
Or at least since the last one Eli threw.
:- )
It is not about who did what. It is about decision making. You can explain anything away you work hard enough. Situational football, he has 2 more downs to work with, why try throwing across your body on a full sprint with your TE covered on all sides. Why take that chance if both you and the TE are not on the same page. Stop with the excuses.
I've gone back to study some of the weather reports from that night. Jones may have been further screwed by an unexpected wind gale that occurred just as he was throwing that pass to Engram. If not for that, my guess is it's a perfect strike to EE and a TD.
So if you marry that with Simms's criticism of EE, and his support of another QB, than you have some strong "evidence" that Jones actually made a great play and was just screwed by an incompetent tight end and mother nature's poor timing.
Let's face it. The more you look back on that game and factor in all of the variables that adversely impacted Jones, he actually had a great game.
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It is not about who did what. It is about decision making. You can explain anything away you work hard enough. Situational football, he has 2 more downs to work with, why try throwing across your body on a full sprint with your TE covered on all sides. Why take that chance if both you and the TE are not on the same page. Stop with the excuses.
I've gone back to study some of the weather reports from that night. Jones may have been further screwed by an unexpected wind gale that occurred just as he was throwing that pass to Engram. If not for that, my guess is it's a perfect strike to EE and a TD.
So if you marry that with Simms's criticism of EE, and his support of another QB, than you have some strong "evidence" that Jones actually made a great play and was just screwed by an incompetent tight end and mother nature's poor timing.
Let's face it. The more you look back on that game and factor in all of the variables that adversely impacted Jones, he actually had a great game.
Dep?
If the guy isn’t open in the red zone and you don’t think you can run it in, throw the fucking ball out of bounds.
When Eli's INTs were cut in half from '07 to '08, after Shockey left, is it making an excuse for Eli or simply pointing out that certain players have trouble being "on the same page" as the QB and in EE's case, has trouble catching the f^cking ball?
What do the following players have in common?
Shockey
M. Manningham
Rueben Randle
Evan Engram
?
Sounds like you may need a BBI refresher course on how to accurately evaluate Jones.
Because in the sequence of the play, Engram makes the first mistake. And that creates the chain reaction of more unfortunate outcomes. So everything that happens thereafter is really free from blame.
Hope that helps... ;)
Haven’t you see enough interceptions off of EE’s hands from just last year? How many more can we take?
I do free on this though….EE’s greatest asset is that he makes for a good decoy. Decoy does not mean you throw him the ball in critical situations….if you do, it is risky. I’m not saying EE could come through because he could, but it seems to me there is a greater chance disaster will follow and hearts will be broken.
Buyer beware…
But hasn’t the media, Jones, and the Giants staff all basically agreed the mistake was Jones not recognizing the play had fallen apart? And the bad decision was not throwing the ball away?
Either way, if Engram just would have made a better adjustment on the ball or if Garrett calls a different play or if Judge had run some better drills in practices then this INT might not ever have happened. And hasn’t Jones has been good enough, really in all phases of the game, and at all levels, that we don’t need to hang this mistake around his neck? Get some better linemen, a new TE and then get all his weapons like Barkley and Yung Joka and Kenny G and in a few more years the guy is gonna shut up all these critics who blame him for his mistakes which really should be blamed on other people. A great NFL QB always has a lot of other people to take the blame. Even in the preseason. And if anyone knows this to be true it’s Chris Simms.
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This appears to be the completely unbelievable coincidence of both Evan Engram and Daniel Jones both making a mistake on the same play.
Sounds like you may need a BBI refresher course on how to accurately evaluate Jones.
Because in the sequence of the play, Engram makes the first mistake. And that creates the chain reaction of more unfortunate outcomes. So everything that happens thereafter is really free from blame.
Hope that helps... ;)
Right!! What the hell does Chris Simms know about playing QB?
I install sheet rock for a living!
I know WAY MORE than that Simms guy!!
Good lord, don’t be so dramatic. There is no hate for DJ on the thread. Some are just providing some sarcasm to offset the never ending excuses...
Engram ran a bad route, and Jones made a bad decision.
Has anyone serious debated anything otherwise?
It's one INT. He's thrown many. He will throw more. Daniel Jones makes mistakes too. He needs to make less of them. It is year 3 and he's a veteran now.
Why does it have to be more of a conversation than that.
I think Jones is most at fault. That said this is a horrible way to state your case - what QB is blaming the receiver? In fact, had he done that he’d be lambasted for it and I suspect you’d likely lead that charge.
Mentioned but they ran a similar play earlier in the game where Engram did in fact sit down and DJ hit him for a completion. I can see why he thought that would happen again.
100% on Garrett
100% on Jones
⚡facts⚡
I think the takeaway is regardless of what EE did, he should of recognized he wasn't where he should of been and thrown it away or at least not to him.
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Read Jones's presser from Sunday night. He specifically says EE was not at fault and only he was fully to blame for the dumb play.////
I think Jones is most at fault. That said this is a horrible way to state your case - what QB is blaming the receiver? In fact, had he done that he’d be lambasted for it and I suspect you’d likely lead that charge.
Quite often. Sometimes it was legit, sometimes it was on Eli, but the consistency of putting it on himself made it more difficult for the beats to peel away the onion and hammer the 'guilty' party...i.e., a + in the locker room.
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Read Jones's presser from Sunday night. He specifically says EE was not at fault and only he was fully to blame for the dumb play.
I think Jones is most at fault. That said this is a horrible way to state your case - what QB is blaming the receiver? In fact, had he done that he’d be lambasted for it and I suspect you’d likely lead that charge.
Yeah, I thought about that. If it was a busted route, Jones could also have softened it by saying something like, "We've just got to get better with that play all the way around. But I have the ball and just have to make a better decision..."
On one hand Engram “screws” Jones by not flattening his route along the goal line — but virtually the next thing out of his mouth is if Engram stops he’s open for a TD.
So wait Engram screwed him so hard, he was open for a TD?
Engram did the right thing fading back because the defender cut off the goal line. He did the wrong thing by not sitting down in the open area.
But that ball was way off target. It was even to backside of the defender who had to turn back and catch it. Even if Engram sits down in the zone, that ball is way behind him.
People are going to be surprised how good he is this year and they are going to be surprised again when he’s flirting with top 5 QB play in the years to come. Im very convinced he’s going to live in that second tier of QBs once he hits his prime. The class outside of the Rogers and Mahomes of the world (and maybe Allen - lots of tape on that offense this year let’s see how he adjusts).
Can’t let one mistake become two and that’s why the QBs get paid the big bucks though.
Swap Rudolph with Engram. Rudolph fades into the end zone because the defender cuts off the goal line. Rudolph sits down in the zone.
At best he’s making a high difficulty effort play because the ball was way off target.
Jones didn’t try to thread the needle in a closing window. He threw behind everyone including the defender, who made a nifty play on his backside.
Once Jones starts rolling, he gets to the right hash. EE has actually turned is waiting for the pass at the two yard alone. He then just keeps flowing with Jones. At one step past the right hash, Jones can simply toss a nice touch pass for the TD.
Instead, the hesitation kicks in, and Jones wait two steps too long to deliver.
INT instead of a TD.
He thinks the better option for Engram is to take himself out of the play and run stride for stride along the goal line with the defender? That’s silly.
Engram got open, that’s the objective!
Now what transpires from there, and whether Engram should sit down in the zone or keep moving is debatable. It’s pretty bang-bang.
But it’s pretty obvious Jones shouldn’t throw the ball completely behind the target.
Is your contribution to the nuance conversation accusing posters of hating Jones and exaggerating how Eli was noted within your thread?
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Read Jones's presser from Sunday night. He specifically says EE was not at fault and only he was fully to blame for the dumb play.
I think Jones is most at fault. That said this is a horrible way to state your case - what QB is blaming the receiver? In fact, had he done that he’d be lambasted for it and I suspect you’d likely lead that charge.
Is this another example of how you think you aren’t a better fan than anyone else?
Swap Rudolph with Engram. Rudolph fades into the end zone because the defender cuts off the goal line. Rudolph sits down in the zone.
At best he’s making a high difficulty effort play because the ball was way off target.
Jones didn’t try to thread the needle in a closing window. He threw behind everyone including the defender, who made a nifty play on his backside.
There was a quick fairly tight window for a TD. After that was missed, the play was to throw it away. In a preseason game, if it helps Jones develop then it was worth it. We’ll see.
Anyone that says "no nuance is needed" doesn't understand the game....
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Read Jones's presser from Sunday night. He specifically says EE was not at fault and only he was fully to blame for the dumb play.
Anyone that says "no nuance is needed" doesn't understand the game....
Indeed, there are plays in a game that require a more nuanced view.
But I don't see the nuance here. Everything is clean - the QB-C exchange, EE running clean underneath the LOS left to right, Jones has a smooth roll, EE looks for the ball at the two, and Jones has a very good chance to fit the ball between Judon (playing contain) and the trailing safety seven years behind EE once he gets to the right hash.
And zero mention of his TD pass to Smith while having a defender right his grill. (Smiths grill, not Jones)
And zero mention of his TD pass to Smith while having a defender right his grill. (Smiths grill, not Jones)
That is a good point. But you just don’t see threads created on things like this because too many are spirited to criticize or then defend in reaction.
This was a big time throw and catch so why isn’t anybody promoting it as a thread? It may not get the same 5 threads the interception did, but why not one?
And zero mention of his TD pass to Smith while having a defender right his grill. (Smiths grill, not Jones)
That play definitely got good airplay around here. I liked it because Jones ended his night on a high note.
But what diminished it a bit was it happened against the Pats 2s. Had it happened against the 1s, I think the play has greater value.
And zero mention of his TD pass to Smith while having a defender right his grill. (Smiths grill, not Jones)
Go look back at the game thread. Everyone was excited and complimentary.
Not being sarcastic, why don’t you start a thread on how nice of a play that was?
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75 threads about his one bad play
And zero mention of his TD pass to Smith while having a defender right his grill. (Smiths grill, not Jones)
Go look back at the game thread. Everyone was excited and complimentary.
Not being sarcastic, why don’t you start a thread on how nice of a play that was?
Oh I know way better than to start a thread being complimentary of Dan Jones…..
That said, I am glad you found this clip and posted it.
This may be the most discussed/argued about INT in the history of NFL preseason... lol Simms on INT - ( New Window )
I am so laughing at at all the angst and finger pointing. It's so silly. This play took place in seconds. If Jones immediately puts the ball to Engram's right it's a TD (assuming EE catches it). This is the best option. Obviously there was a lack of "connective options on the sight" on this play.
It's really kind of funny that all of the nuts on this play go to Engram. If I'm the QB, I AM NOT THINKING ABOUT A MISCUE. I am thinking about where to put the ball to maybe make a play WITHOUT giving up an interception. It was available with all of the other options. DUH! That window to Engram' right was open. Engram makes the catch or drops it, but that's the play to make they can talk about and debate after. No chance for an interception. Geez!