Solder is the better "Technique" guy right now and we can't afford missed assignments and technique issues against their pass rush. Plus, changing up and Peart coming in will allow for a much more fresh line and a big change (Peart has more mass than Solder) in the run game.
Either way, I think Peart had a lot of technique issues vs NE and that is why the depth chart reads Solder 1 and Peart 2 for now.
he's a veteran who knows what he's doing even if he's 1 or 2 steps slower. Bob Whitfield and Lomas Brown (and David Diehl for the 2nd SB) come to mind as guys who mostly got by on veteran tricks and lots of athletic tape. Solder shouldn't be overwhelmed by the moment and this way Peart can earn more reps.
Solder graded among the worst tackles in the league
before opting out and now he’s even older. Sy’s recaps routinely talked about how awful he was playing. It’s disappointing that Peart wasn’t able to cleanly beat him out. The team should’ve made more of an effort to address the tackle position IMO.
It is what it is at this point. Have to hope that the coaching staff is somehow able to coach Solder to regain some of his prior competency.
Even some at OLT, same with interior line
Probably need some time to find best pairings and what matches up best each week
A lot different than trotting out same oline every week no matter what
edging him out is not the worst thing. Afterall the discussion about Solder is not just a FB player but a human/father/husband etc and was dealing with a lot personally while trying to play through injury it is not surprising he performs better than we expected. Especially while having to do it in an abbreviated camp drills and practices wise plus 1 less pre-season game. That is relevant because savvy vets know how to handle camp better and supplement better than a younger guy. Peart did not look bad avg young guy learning on the job, well with Judge rotation system Peart will get his live reps and hopefully takes the RT spot over during the season. At bare minimum allow the OL coaches to have the Solder on a snapcount that keeps him in decent shape all season long.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
Rudolf said yesterday he's available to play 80+ snaps. Judges said today he'll be a full practice participant tomorrow. Don't believe the depth charts...
Also, full injury reports are due to the league tomorrow.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
before opting out and now he’s even older. Sy’s recaps routinely talked about how awful he was playing. It’s disappointing that Peart wasn’t able to cleanly beat him out. The team should’ve made more of an effort to address the tackle position IMO.
It is what it is at this point. Have to hope that the coaching staff is somehow able to coach Solder to regain some of his prior competency.
We understand what he’s been given injuries and the issues with his son. The question is what is he now. I don’t know and neither does anyone else.
this team completely misevaluated the offensive line again. the only reason solder is on the team is because of his contract, not because he can still play. he has been beyond awful since he signed here.
peart is clearly still awful and can't even beat him out. he looks like he will go the way of james brewer (calling him the next guy wimper is an insult to guy wimper).
this team doesn't have a single offensive tackle that is any good. that is a total failure.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
I see it updated now. It previously listed Kaden Smith twice at the TE position opposite Engram (which I didn't catch). Please disregard my earlier comment. My bad.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
The confusion comes from the fact that Rudolph is listed in the chart that appears at the end of the article but not in the chart you get if you click the link in the article.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
The confusion comes from the fact that Rudolph is listed in the chart that appears at the end of the article but not in the chart you get if you click the link in the article.
Not getting the start game 1 of his second season in favor of a seasoned veteran is not a catastrophic outcome. I have little faith in this Oline, but the truth is, Soldier has played surpeisingly well in PS and training camp. I can't react to this like it's some failure. Peart has to improve, but this is not exactly a get out the torches and pitch fork development, even if true.
Not getting the start game 1 of his second season in favor of a seasoned veteran is not a catastrophic outcome. I have little faith in this Oline, but the truth is, Soldier has played surpeisingly well in PS and training camp. I can't react to this like it's some failure. Peart has to improve, but this is not exactly a get out the torches and pitch fork development, even if true.
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
Is it possible for Peart and Thomas to switch tackle spots?
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
dickwads on this thread.
Peart played 15% of the snaps last year AND had COVID. Plus, he was always viewed as a project. Yet, some here want to give the organization a big fat FAIL because he’s not ready yet to be the starter? Give me a break. Solder is the better option to START right now. That doesn’t mean Peart won’t take the job by seasons end.
Frankly I would have been surprised if he outright won the job in camp. Earn it during the course of the season. I still think Judge sees him as the future at RT. Best players play. Solder had a good camp (according to Judge) so he’s the starter.
Same thing with Lemieux. If Brederson shows better during the season, that jon may change hands.
Judge has said he looks at the first 4 weeks as extended camp as he figures out his roster. Nothing is set in stone. Xavier McKinney is another example. He’s currently not the starter at safety. Let’s see how that plays out.
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
When was Solder good in NE? Seriously? 2016?
RE: RE: RE: Well I am moderately hopeful on Solder
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
It's 2021...
Thanks for the insight as usual
Plank - come on, you walked into that. "Good" play hasn't been seen from Nate Solder since around 2015-2016...
He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
It's 2021...
Thanks for the insight as usual
Plank - come on, you walked into that. "Good" play hasn't been seen from Nate Solder since around 2015-2016...
My main point is that I think right now Solder is probably still better than Peart, so I agree with this and I am hopeful Solder can be adequate at RT (I sense some think this is irrational - so be it). I also don't think its some kind of failure that a 3rd rd pick in his 2nd season, who everyone knew was a little bit of a project, isn't starting.
I think that too many people on here just throw out the "we suck" mantra for everything.
It's a long season, odds are he'll be pressed into a starting role at some point this year and he'll have the chance to lock it down (or not) at that time. A lot of overreaction to the move on Twitter, it was kind of expected too.
LOL...glad most of you aren't the coaching staff...
Is that the depth chart is put together by the PR people right now based on what they are seeing in practice. It is not put together by the coaching staff. So while it might be instructive to some degree, it is not definitive.
Cam Brown needs a lot of time in the weight room. While he and Coughlin have made some plays, one's changed positions and the other's still at the bottom of the depth chart.
Solder has outplayed Peart, which is common for a grizzled veteran over a #3 pick. Peart and Thomas need a lot of reps and technique growth, pronto.
In comment 15354932 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
Is that the depth chart is put together by the PR people right now based on what they are seeing in practice. It is not put together by the coaching staff. So while it might be instructive to some degree, it is not definitive.
Based on some of what I’ve seen on depth charts I wouldn’t doubt they give the job to some finance intern.
The good news is he's become a physical monster. But he seemed to have lost a fraction of a step as a result and repeatedly gave up the outside rush. He seems to have the quickness to adjust. He certainly has the size, strength, and arm length.
RE: wow, Peart couldn't nail down the starting position after two years
against him ever being in a NY Giant uniform again, no less the de facto starting OT. But here he is doing what he can to earn his money and help the team.
Hopefully Solder Part II is a better than the original, for Daniel Jones sake.
When we revisit this in 3 years time, Peart will be a starting tackle in this league, and Mekhi Becton will be on his way out of the league or will have missed significant time to injury.
That won't be the case for long, fortunately. Ojulari is immensely more talented than the guy who always looks like he's running through wet cement.
Ximines was terrible at setting the Edge. This is where Ojulari has an Edge, no pun intended! I think we’ll still see plenty of Ojulari rotated in. Just because depth charts reflect starters, we all know that can be misleading in a Joe Judge coached team.
they're going to rotate lineman in like last year, don't think whoever is listed on the depth chart really matters much to this coaching staff. Depends on the gameplan and situation.
They have a few other guys, too, who can get after it - DreMont Jones and Malik Reed. Donatell and Fangio are bright defensive minds who will absolutely test this OL.
Punting on Sunday will be a good result.
RE: RE: wow, Peart couldn't nail down the starting position after two years
...I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
Come on, PP. How many hundreds of comments, I'm willing to bet--and I don't claim to know for a fact that you were among them, but a good likelihood, I think--were there here during Peart's early season starts in '20 that he looked very good and that it was only C19 that derailed him from being the yearlong starter??
Be that as it may, what did dismay, was on a couple of PPro snaps, Peart looked like he was mechanistically attempting to execute technique that had been part of his instruction this camp, to wit: I believe one of the techniques for OL is, if the DL is rushing to his right, so to Peart's left, get your upper body between him and the pocket leading with your head/shoulders, but square, legs set/shuffling with the DL. In these instances, Peart stuck his head out as if out the driver's side car window as if he was parallel parking, but his head/eyes looking down at the ground. It was grotesque, and led to a sack. I like the guy, wish him well, but right now he looks all messed up, so this seems the right decision.
And to the poster above who made the allusion to Guy Whimper: I made that comp about a month ago, and, right now, it is an insult to GW. Most of us are quite frustrated with the lack of smooth progress, hell, any progress, across the entire OL, except we hope, for Gates and Hernandez.
i think brown is more athlete than football player. he's great for special teams but reading and reacting on defense is not his strong suit. he seems destined for bottom of roster and hoping to stick because of ST. which is perfectly fine for someone drafted where he was
If Rashawn Slater turns into a stud... and this OL duds YET AGAIN
have been listening/reading Judge's transcripts, he's going to rotate OL's again. Peart is going to play even if he doesn't start.
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
RE: If Rashawn Slater turns into a stud... and this OL duds YET AGAIN
have been listening/reading Judge's transcripts, he's going to rotate OL's again. Peart is going to play even if he doesn't start.
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
That's not my take at all.
My take is Peart isn't ready yet and they are going to develop him by giving him reps in spurts, like they did with good success last year.
have been listening/reading Judge's transcripts, he's going to rotate OL's again. Peart is going to play even if he doesn't start.
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
That's not my take at all.
My take is Peart isn't ready yet and they are going to develop him by giving him reps in spurts, like they did with good success last year.
that's what practice and the preseason are for. i understand last season to a degree too as that was a complete rebuilding year. but this team just spend a ton of money to win now. OT's don't get gassed and need breathers. there is no reason to put a lesser player out on the field during meaningful snaps in these games
Joe Judge gave Matt Peart two series in the first preseason game, none in the second, and some (but not all) of the first half of the third preseason game.
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
RE: RE: Von Miller and Bradley Chubb licking their chops
They have a few other guys, too, who can get after it - DreMont Jones and Malik Reed. Donatell and Fangio are bright defensive minds who will absolutely test this OL.
Punting on Sunday will be a good result.
Booker probably a decent fantasy play this week. They are still pretty soft against the run and he could see volume with Barkley probably getting 15 touches tops.
Everyone deserves to be fired or put on a real hot seat.
Not that simple. If Jones doesn't take a step forward we're all going to be very happy that we have the Bears 1. Irregardless of Slater, it's a good hedge.
I have to believe that the preferred offensive alignment is 3 WRs
And 1 TE, if the o-line holds up. Then, Golladay and Slayton play out wide with Shepard in the slot. Two TEs just isn’t a sustainable base offense in the 2021 NFL. Rudolph should be the #1 TE. Without looking it up, I think Rudoph’s worst season may be better than Engram’s best, if you consider everything a TE is supposed to do (and Engram doesn’t do).
This depth chart suggests that Shepard has beaten out Slayton as a WR. I don’t believe that, but if true, then I think Engram and Toney will share the slot when Shepard plays wide. I don’t know why you would put together a depth chart without acknowledging the Slot position.
RE: RE: If Rashawn Slater turns into a stud... and this OL duds YET AGAIN
Everyone deserves to be fired or put on a real hot seat.
Not that simple. If Jones doesn't take a step forward we're all going to be very happy that we have the Bears 1. Irregardless of Slater, it's a good hedge.
Let’s not get to excited about the Bears pick. We had a 2, a 6, and a 4 pick in the first round 3 years in a row, and still the team hasn’t gotten any better.
Joe Judge gave Matt Peart two series in the first preseason game, none in the second, and some (but not all) of the first half of the third preseason game.
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
i get it but that was also a choice judge made with regards to his reps in the preseason. he could have played peart longer in those games to give him more reps. and he got reps in joint practices against other teams where there was contact (he reportedly looked terrible up in new england during the week).
and i feel like that's making excuses. rotating guys in at OT is simply not a thing teams do in the regular season, it's not a new NFL thing. we aren't going to sit bradbury down for a couple series a game to get robinson reps this year. will we sit darnay holmes though sometimes? yes because he is not very good
they were backed into a corner with the RT position this year. the horrible solder signing tied their hands and it cost less on the cap to keep him at the reduced price than to cut him and sign a replacement (remember they are right up against the cap now). they can spin him as veteran depth all they want. they gave matt peart an opportunity to win the job and he couldn't because he simply isn't very good right now either.
they passed up really good OT prospects this year because they didn't want to draft over matt peart. and it appears they significantly misevaluated where matt peart was as a player.
and now they have all the excuses they want for jones. o-line again and the offensive coordinator.
Joe Judge gave Matt Peart two series in the first preseason game, none in the second, and some (but not all) of the first half of the third preseason game.
People think that just because Peart was drafted in the 3rd round from the football factory from UCON that he is a major prize, because he is not, and as bad as Solder may be he is probably a safer bet. Either way it is bad.
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
i get it but that was also a choice judge made with regards to his reps in the preseason. he could have played peart longer in those games to give him more reps. and he got reps in joint practices against other teams where there was contact (he reportedly looked terrible up in new england during the week).
and i feel like that's making excuses. rotating guys in at OT is simply not a thing teams do in the regular season, it's not a new NFL thing. we aren't going to sit bradbury down for a couple series a game to get robinson reps this year. will we sit darnay holmes though sometimes? yes because he is not very good
they were backed into a corner with the RT position this year. the horrible solder signing tied their hands and it cost less on the cap to keep him at the reduced price than to cut him and sign a replacement (remember they are right up against the cap now). they can spin him as veteran depth all they want. they gave matt peart an opportunity to win the job and he couldn't because he simply isn't very good right now either.
they passed up really good OT prospects this year because they didn't want to draft over matt peart. and it appears they significantly misevaluated where matt peart was as a player.
and now they have all the excuses they want for jones. o-line again and the offensive coordinator.
others have noted, Solder was awful the last time he played, and also sat out all of last year. We have to hope the time off has made him better, but that certainly isn't a given. It would have obviously have been better for Peart to have beaten him out for RT.
It's just maddening that this team can't get a decent OL no matter who is in charge, and regardless of draft capital spent and FA signings. The situation is still so bad that we cut every one of our backup OL and traded for two backup OL during final roster cuts.
others have noted, Solder was awful the last time he played, and also sat out all of last year. We have to hope the time off has made him better, but that certainly isn't a given. It would have obviously have been better for Peart to have beaten him out for RT.
It's just maddening that this team can't get a decent OL no matter who is in charge, and regardless of draft capital spent and FA signings. The situation is still so bad that we cut every one of our backup OL and traded for two backup OL during final roster cuts.
I know Peart was a 3rd round pick from that O lineman football factory at UCONN, but that doesn’t mean he is any good, and can beat out anybody.
Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
Out of 33 players selected by Gettleman's in 4 Drafts
In comment 15355379 Rick in Dallas said:
[quote] Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!! [/quot
There were all kinds of mock drafts last year, and each one had the Giants. Taking one of the different top 4 OT each time. Each of the top 4 had flaws, and Thomas certainly does, and what makes the O line even look worse is because the rest of the O line has many flaws as well with the biggest flaw they just aren’t that good. The Jets are better set on their L side of the line then the Giants.
Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
RE: RE: Giants incapable IMHO of evaluating OL talent
Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
There"s so many ridiculous takes on this. You realize he's a third
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
Do you think the Giants are disregarding a solution to right tackle?
RE: RE: RE: Giants incapable IMHO of evaluating OL talent
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
I liked Toney pre-draft, but thought we solved the WR issue with KG. With him, Shep, Slayton, and EE/KR, it seemed we had enough to finally have, on paper, a competent horizontal and vertical receiving team.
So I thought we reached for him instead of beefing up the OL with some solid prospects on the board at our pick. It's very hard to find good OLs, but first rounders tend to have a pretty good hit rate. WRs? Not as good of a hit rate...
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
Haven't read the whole thread, but discouraging to read this. Peart-from all accounts-has had a rough, rough summer. I was hoping he'd take this job & run with it. Oy vey.
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
Yet so many on here were pointing him to be a lock starter this year which is why there were claims that the Giants will be much better this year.
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
Do you think the Giants are disregarding a solution to right tackle?
If Peart's ceiling is a swing tackle, then yes.
Is there somebody else that is part of the calculus here?
1. Many colleges and lower levels play a different style and it’s a big adjustment to the NFL.
2. CBA. OL don’t get the physical repetitions to develop skill set.
The solution is add OL every year identifying traits that can be developed. When the OL is good keep adding to the pipeline. Weed out the weakest links. Repeat.
The idea of having to build a OL with all high picks is a front office that can’t identify potential OL talent imo.
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
Yet so many on here were pointing him to be a lock starter this year which is why there were claims that the Giants will be much better this year.
That is correct, including the GM. He even boasted that it was really apparent that he had much more confidence in the offensive line than you guys in the media.
So Solder moves into a starting role again. And he will play and likely rotate some with Peart. But there is no downplaying it, the Giants (and probably eveybody here) were counting on Peart to solidify himself in that job,a nd this is a bit disheartening...
Yet so many on here were pointing him to be a lock starter this year which is why there were claims that the Giants will be much better this year.
That’s the kind of silly part. Dude has about 100 snaps before he gets Covid, his season falls apart, and you’d have thought he’d proven something last year by the way some fans viewed him.
It’s not surprising he needs some ramp up time. I wish the Giants had invested in a starting caliber right tackle, and Peart was the heir apparent/swing guy.
It is surprising to some, as I had heard Peart looked a lot like
so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
I don’t think many opinions are formed on 3 pre-season games, and practice reports, but think the O line is going to be a strength this year is not going to change any outcomes.
so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
I don’t think many opinions are formed on 3 pre-season games, and practice reports, but think the O line is going to be a strength this year is not going to change any outcomes.
so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
Great analysis you did there - you said "Fuck it" -- and now we all know everything will be okay now with our OL.
Somehow you've convinced yourself that only 3 preseason games drew a potentially cautious outlook for the Giants. I guess last year having the 31st ranked offense doesn't matter. I guess analysis such as with SY who is not so high on the OL doesn't matter. I guess when you hear any analysis on radio or TV and they speak of potential concerns which is the OL - that doesn't matter to you either.
You said "fuck it" - so now we're comforted in knowing everything will be fine. We could've used this fine analysis you provided these last 8 years and it all could've gone the other way. All because of that great insight you made by stating "fuck it."
so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
Great analysis you did there - you said "Fuck it" -- and now we all know everything will be okay now with our OL.
Somehow you've convinced yourself that only 3 preseason games drew a potentially cautious outlook for the Giants. I guess last year having the 31st ranked offense doesn't matter. I guess analysis such as with SY who is not so high on the OL doesn't matter. I guess when you hear any analysis on radio or TV and they speak of potential concerns which is the OL - that doesn't matter to you either.
You said "fuck it" - so now we're comforted in knowing everything will be fine. We could've used this fine analysis you provided these last 8 years and it all could've gone the other way. All because of that great insight you made by stating "fuck it."
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
RE: RE: If Rashawn Slater turns into a stud... and this OL duds YET AGAIN
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
Two weak spots can be covered up? Good luck with that in NY.
And even if they could, who are all the great skill players that are going to do that? Jones has no pocket awareness and Saquon can’t block. Are the new WRs and TEs who are barely making it onto the field at this point going cover it all up?
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
SO the 2nd most important position on the OL is "So what?"
I know it's not 1985 anymore. Maybe the point you made above means you should stop acting like it is?
There is no general rule - but you're acting like a Giants homer that no matter what happens is "so what?"
Not getting the start game 1 of his second season in favor of a seasoned veteran is not a catastrophic outcome. I have little faith in this Oline, but the truth is, Soldier has played surpeisingly well in PS and training camp. I can't react to this like it's some failure. Peart has to improve, but this is not exactly a get out the torches and pitch fork development, even if true.
It's not a great outcome when said veteran graded out as one of the worst OTs his 2 seasons here before opting out last year. So, he is now 2 years older than when he last played 2 seasons ago, and he was getting old then.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants incapable IMHO of evaluating OL talent
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
I liked Toney pre-draft, but thought we solved the WR issue with KG. With him, Shep, Slayton, and EE/KR, it seemed we had enough to finally have, on paper, a competent horizontal and vertical receiving team.
So I thought we reached for him instead of beefing up the OL with some solid prospects on the board at our pick. It's very hard to find good OLs, but first rounders tend to have a pretty good hit rate. WRs? Not as good of a hit rate...
I think this is a pretty fair evaluation of the pick. There were good OL out there, but it is pretty clear that the front office and coaching staff were dead set on proceeding with the 3 second year players plus Gates and Hernandez. Well, now one is not playing due to injury, but didn't look particularly good early in camp before getting hurt, another got beat by a shitty old veteran, and the prize of the draft has regressed back to his ugly first half of his rookie year. So, fabulous.
This guy went what, 99th overall? So he is a year 2 player who was practically a day 3 guy. Out of Uconn no less.
The mistake here is not the actual pick...round 3 guys hit well below 50% so if Peart is a decent swing guy it’s a win. The real mistake is not having a better contingency plan than Solder.
Either way, I think Peart had a lot of technique issues vs NE and that is why the depth chart reads Solder 1 and Peart 2 for now.
This is the bigger deal if true.
It is what it is at this point. Have to hope that the coaching staff is somehow able to coach Solder to regain some of his prior competency.
Right like if Peart was in they would avoid him?
Probably need some time to find best pairings and what matches up best each week
A lot different than trotting out same oline every week no matter what
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
It is a change to the first chart released on August 11.
To see the first chart,scroll all the way down to the end of the linked article (don't just click the link that will take you to the updated chart).
first chart - ( New Window )
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I suppose he's not going to dress.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
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where do you attack the NY Giants?
Right like if Peart was in they would avoid him?
That wasn't a post to prop up either...
it can't be the giants jersey that makes guys suck when they get here.
He is listed as the 2nd starter at tight end
Rudolf said yesterday he's available to play 80+ snaps. Judges said today he'll be a full practice participant tomorrow. Don't believe the depth charts...
Also, full injury reports are due to the league tomorrow.
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In comment 15354837 Gap92 said:
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I suppose he's not going to dress.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
Pretty suprising the Giants orginization failed at putting a o-line togther.
It is what it is at this point. Have to hope that the coaching staff is somehow able to coach Solder to regain some of his prior competency.
We understand what he’s been given injuries and the issues with his son. The question is what is he now. I don’t know and neither does anyone else.
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there is simply no other way to put it
Seriously? How is that, exactly?
this team completely misevaluated the offensive line again. the only reason solder is on the team is because of his contract, not because he can still play. he has been beyond awful since he signed here.
peart is clearly still awful and can't even beat him out. he looks like he will go the way of james brewer (calling him the next guy wimper is an insult to guy wimper).
this team doesn't have a single offensive tackle that is any good. that is a total failure.
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In comment 15354843 mfsd said:
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In comment 15354837 Gap92 said:
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I suppose he's not going to dress.
Yes he is. They show 2 TEs spots. Engram/Rudolph starters, Smith backup to both
Must be a typo. On the Giants' site Kaden Smith is listed as the other TE opposite Engram, then he's listed as his own backup. I didn't catch that. Must be Rudolph first.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
I see it updated now. It previously listed Kaden Smith twice at the TE position opposite Engram (which I didn't catch). Please disregard my earlier comment. My bad.
We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
The confusion comes from the fact that Rudolph is listed in the chart that appears at the end of the article but not in the chart you get if you click the link in the article.
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We may be looking at different charts. I was going by this one released from giants.com
Link - ( New Window )
The confusion comes from the fact that Rudolph is listed in the chart that appears at the end of the article but not in the chart you get if you click the link in the article.
But the link has now been corrected. All good.
Why? Because a 3rd rd draft pick in his 2nd year didn't beat out a vet?
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there is simply no other way to put it
Why? Because a 3rd rd draft pick in his 2nd year didn't beat out a vet?
A vet that was terrible two years ago and didn't play a snap last season.
Or, it's a failure because the OL has been complete garbage for YEARS now.
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there is simply no other way to put it
Why? Because a 3rd rd draft pick in his 2nd year didn't beat out a vet?
Yeah, this is all about how Solder won the job...
solder isn't a seasoned vet. he's washed
It's 2021...
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He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
It's 2021...
Thanks for the insight as usual
Peart played 15% of the snaps last year AND had COVID. Plus, he was always viewed as a project. Yet, some here want to give the organization a big fat FAIL because he’s not ready yet to be the starter? Give me a break. Solder is the better option to START right now. That doesn’t mean Peart won’t take the job by seasons end.
Frankly I would have been surprised if he outright won the job in camp. Earn it during the course of the season. I still think Judge sees him as the future at RT. Best players play. Solder had a good camp (according to Judge) so he’s the starter.
Same thing with Lemieux. If Brederson shows better during the season, that jon may change hands.
Judge has said he looks at the first 4 weeks as extended camp as he figures out his roster. Nothing is set in stone. Xavier McKinney is another example. He’s currently not the starter at safety. Let’s see how that plays out.
New Released Depth Chart - ( New Window )
When was Solder good in NE? Seriously? 2016?
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In comment 15354889 PatersonPlank said:
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He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
It's 2021...
Thanks for the insight as usual
Plank - come on, you walked into that. "Good" play hasn't been seen from Nate Solder since around 2015-2016...
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In comment 15354893 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15354889 PatersonPlank said:
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He was banged up 2 seasons ago, and I'm hoping the year off let his body get back to normal. I think this is a good move, because really Peart has never played at a started level since he's been here (yet). Solder was good in NE.
It's 2021...
Thanks for the insight as usual
Plank - come on, you walked into that. "Good" play hasn't been seen from Nate Solder since around 2015-2016...
My main point is that I think right now Solder is probably still better than Peart, so I agree with this and I am hopeful Solder can be adequate at RT (I sense some think this is irrational - so be it). I also don't think its some kind of failure that a 3rd rd pick in his 2nd season, who everyone knew was a little bit of a project, isn't starting.
I think that too many people on here just throw out the "we suck" mantra for everything.
Hopefully that's a positive indication about his knee.
And not for nothing, my guess is Peart will actually "win" it back in no time at all. Is say the over/under is during Game 2...
He must have looked really good in Monday's practice;)
Was just about to post that, consistent with what the staff did last year with the OL.
Solder has outplayed Peart, which is common for a grizzled veteran over a #3 pick. Peart and Thomas need a lot of reps and technique growth, pronto.
That won't be the case for long, fortunately. Ojulari is immensely more talented than the guy who always looks like he's running through wet cement.
as a pass blocker whether he starts or comes off the bench.
Based on some of what I’ve seen on depth charts I wouldn’t doubt they give the job to some finance intern.
The good news is he's become a physical monster. But he seemed to have lost a fraction of a step as a result and repeatedly gave up the outside rush. He seems to have the quickness to adjust. He certainly has the size, strength, and arm length.
Now this is a pretty ignorant comment -- Peart was a third round pick
Hopefully Solder Part II is a better than the original, for Daniel Jones sake.
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Ximines listed in front of Ojulari.
That won't be the case for long, fortunately. Ojulari is immensely more talented than the guy who always looks like he's running through wet cement.
Ximines was terrible at setting the Edge. This is where Ojulari has an Edge, no pun intended! I think we’ll still see plenty of Ojulari rotated in. Just because depth charts reflect starters, we all know that can be misleading in a Joe Judge coached team.
This is the way.
A floater until Robinson comes back.
They have a few other guys, too, who can get after it - DreMont Jones and Malik Reed. Donatell and Fangio are bright defensive minds who will absolutely test this OL.
Punting on Sunday will be a good result.
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and got beat out by someone out of football for a year, total failure of Pick
Now this is a pretty ignorant comment -- Peart was a third round pick
I could be wrong but I believe this was sarcasm...
👍👍👍.
Be that as it may, what did dismay, was on a couple of PPro snaps, Peart looked like he was mechanistically attempting to execute technique that had been part of his instruction this camp, to wit: I believe one of the techniques for OL is, if the DL is rushing to his right, so to Peart's left, get your upper body between him and the pocket leading with your head/shoulders, but square, legs set/shuffling with the DL. In these instances, Peart stuck his head out as if out the driver's side car window as if he was parallel parking, but his head/eyes looking down at the ground. It was grotesque, and led to a sack. I like the guy, wish him well, but right now he looks all messed up, so this seems the right decision.
And to the poster above who made the allusion to Guy Whimper: I made that comp about a month ago, and, right now, it is an insult to GW. Most of us are quite frustrated with the lack of smooth progress, hell, any progress, across the entire OL, except we hope, for Gates and Hernandez.
i think brown is more athlete than football player. he's great for special teams but reading and reacting on defense is not his strong suit. he seems destined for bottom of roster and hoping to stick because of ST. which is perfectly fine for someone drafted where he was
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
Ok
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have been listening/reading Judge's transcripts, he's going to rotate OL's again. Peart is going to play even if he doesn't start.
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
That's not my take at all.
My take is Peart isn't ready yet and they are going to develop him by giving him reps in spurts, like they did with good success last year.
That was a supplemental pick well spent
I'd bet money he sucks again. It's disappointing Peart couldn't beat him out.
Amen. Apparently, Slater is living up to his billing thus far.
Meanwhile, Toney continues to be in the Giants Witness Protection Program.
Didn't they say it was a hamstring? He also had Covid, which kept Hernandez out about half a season.
He has been a full participant in practice since the end of the last pre season game.
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In comment 15354930 Eric from BBI said:
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have been listening/reading Judge's transcripts, he's going to rotate OL's again. Peart is going to play even if he doesn't start.
i believe they are going to rotate too. but the only reason you rotate is because you don't have someone who can play. no other team i have ever seen deliberately rotates OL. either joe judge is reinventing what teams do, or he knows he doesn't have anyone that can play and he's trying to play as many games as he can to mask a glaring hole which has been a glaring hole for what feels like 10 years.
That's not my take at all.
My take is Peart isn't ready yet and they are going to develop him by giving him reps in spurts, like they did with good success last year.
that's what practice and the preseason are for. i understand last season to a degree too as that was a complete rebuilding year. but this team just spend a ton of money to win now. OT's don't get gassed and need breathers. there is no reason to put a lesser player out on the field during meaningful snaps in these games
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
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.
They have a few other guys, too, who can get after it - DreMont Jones and Malik Reed. Donatell and Fangio are bright defensive minds who will absolutely test this OL.
Punting on Sunday will be a good result.
Booker probably a decent fantasy play this week. They are still pretty soft against the run and he could see volume with Barkley probably getting 15 touches tops.
..
Not that simple. If Jones doesn't take a step forward we're all going to be very happy that we have the Bears 1. Irregardless of Slater, it's a good hedge.
This depth chart suggests that Shepard has beaten out Slayton as a WR. I don’t believe that, but if true, then I think Engram and Toney will share the slot when Shepard plays wide. I don’t know why you would put together a depth chart without acknowledging the Slot position.
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Everyone deserves to be fired or put on a real hot seat.
Not that simple. If Jones doesn't take a step forward we're all going to be very happy that we have the Bears 1. Irregardless of Slater, it's a good hedge.
Let’s not get to excited about the Bears pick. We had a 2, a 6, and a 4 pick in the first round 3 years in a row, and still the team hasn’t gotten any better.
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
i get it but that was also a choice judge made with regards to his reps in the preseason. he could have played peart longer in those games to give him more reps. and he got reps in joint practices against other teams where there was contact (he reportedly looked terrible up in new england during the week).
and i feel like that's making excuses. rotating guys in at OT is simply not a thing teams do in the regular season, it's not a new NFL thing. we aren't going to sit bradbury down for a couple series a game to get robinson reps this year. will we sit darnay holmes though sometimes? yes because he is not very good
they were backed into a corner with the RT position this year. the horrible solder signing tied their hands and it cost less on the cap to keep him at the reduced price than to cut him and sign a replacement (remember they are right up against the cap now). they can spin him as veteran depth all they want. they gave matt peart an opportunity to win the job and he couldn't because he simply isn't very good right now either.
they passed up really good OT prospects this year because they didn't want to draft over matt peart. and it appears they significantly misevaluated where matt peart was as a player.
and now they have all the excuses they want for jones. o-line again and the offensive coordinator.
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Joe Judge gave Matt Peart two series in the first preseason game, none in the second, and some (but not all) of the first half of the third preseason game.
People think that just because Peart was drafted in the 3rd round from the football factory from UCON that he is a major prize, because he is not, and as bad as Solder may be he is probably a safer bet. Either way it is bad.
This "preseason" you talk of amounted to about one half of football for Peart.
There is no contact in the OTAs.
There are only a handful of padded practices in the summer (maybe five).
Welcome to the new NFL.
i get it but that was also a choice judge made with regards to his reps in the preseason. he could have played peart longer in those games to give him more reps. and he got reps in joint practices against other teams where there was contact (he reportedly looked terrible up in new england during the week).
and i feel like that's making excuses. rotating guys in at OT is simply not a thing teams do in the regular season, it's not a new NFL thing. we aren't going to sit bradbury down for a couple series a game to get robinson reps this year. will we sit darnay holmes though sometimes? yes because he is not very good
they were backed into a corner with the RT position this year. the horrible solder signing tied their hands and it cost less on the cap to keep him at the reduced price than to cut him and sign a replacement (remember they are right up against the cap now). they can spin him as veteran depth all they want. they gave matt peart an opportunity to win the job and he couldn't because he simply isn't very good right now either.
they passed up really good OT prospects this year because they didn't want to draft over matt peart. and it appears they significantly misevaluated where matt peart was as a player.
and now they have all the excuses they want for jones. o-line again and the offensive coordinator.
The coaches want the best players on the field and it’s nice that is what they are trying to do.
My opinion was that the ONLY reason Solder was even invited to camp was to stretch out his cap hit into 2022.
Imagine posting something this idiotic with such confidence.
My opinion was that the ONLY reason Solder was even invited to camp was to stretch out his cap hit into 2022.
That plus what else they had for tackle wasn’t any better.
It's just maddening that this team can't get a decent OL no matter who is in charge, and regardless of draft capital spent and FA signings. The situation is still so bad that we cut every one of our backup OL and traded for two backup OL during final roster cuts.
It's just maddening that this team can't get a decent OL no matter who is in charge, and regardless of draft capital spent and FA signings. The situation is still so bad that we cut every one of our backup OL and traded for two backup OL during final roster cuts.
I know Peart was a 3rd round pick from that O lineman football factory at UCONN, but that doesn’t mean he is any good, and can beat out anybody.
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
9 have been in the secondary.
Only 5 have been along the offensive line.
That may be part of the problem right there.
[quote] Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!! [/quot
There were all kinds of mock drafts last year, and each one had the Giants. Taking one of the different top 4 OT each time. Each of the top 4 had flaws, and Thomas certainly does, and what makes the O line even look worse is because the rest of the O line has many flaws as well with the biggest flaw they just aren’t that good. The Jets are better set on their L side of the line then the Giants.
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
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Past 2 drafts the smart OL choices were Wirfs and Slater. I could care less that Wirfs is a RT which everyone said is why you don’t draft him at number 4.We would be set at RT for the next 10 years barring injury if we chose Wirfs. Now we have Solder and Peart. Yeah!!!!
Slater was sitting there ready to be picked and all the smart people on BBI said he is a guard and can’t play tackle. Wrong!!! He was IMHO the best tackle in the draft. So athletic!!!
Can you tell I’m pissed at this OL situation which remains a mess.
This shit has been going on for 10 years!!!
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
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round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
Do you think the Giants are disregarding a solution to right tackle?
I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
I liked Toney pre-draft, but thought we solved the WR issue with KG. With him, Shep, Slayton, and EE/KR, it seemed we had enough to finally have, on paper, a competent horizontal and vertical receiving team.
So I thought we reached for him instead of beefing up the OL with some solid prospects on the board at our pick. It's very hard to find good OLs, but first rounders tend to have a pretty good hit rate. WRs? Not as good of a hit rate...
Third round lineman actually have a decent rate of becoming starters.
Link - ( New Window )
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
Third round lineman actually have a decent rate of becoming starters. Link - ( New Window )
The study is from 2015, but it cites this about first round OLs:
I will dig it up, but I saw a more recent study that supports similar %s.
So when it doubt, it seems, go OL in round one.
Meanwhile, notice the high "bust rate" for RBs... ;)
Now ideally he’d do it from 2016 to 2020 again.
Yet so many on here were pointing him to be a lock starter this year which is why there were claims that the Giants will be much better this year.
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In comment 15355427 Zeke's Alibi said:
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round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
So its okay to draft a potential swing tackle but disregard finding a starting solution at Right Tackle?
Do you think the Giants are disregarding a solution to right tackle?
If Peart's ceiling is a swing tackle, then yes.
Is there somebody else that is part of the calculus here?
1. Many colleges and lower levels play a different style and it’s a big adjustment to the NFL.
2. CBA. OL don’t get the physical repetitions to develop skill set.
The solution is add OL every year identifying traits that can be developed. When the OL is good keep adding to the pipeline. Weed out the weakest links. Repeat.
The idea of having to build a OL with all high picks is a front office that can’t identify potential OL talent imo.
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round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
Yet so many on here were pointing him to be a lock starter this year which is why there were claims that the Giants will be much better this year.
That is correct, including the GM. He even boasted that it was really apparent that he had much more confidence in the offensive line than you guys in the media.
So Solder moves into a starting role again. And he will play and likely rotate some with Peart. But there is no downplaying it, the Giants (and probably eveybody here) were counting on Peart to solidify himself in that job,a nd this is a bit disheartening...
That’s the kind of silly part. Dude has about 100 snaps before he gets Covid, his season falls apart, and you’d have thought he’d proven something last year by the way some fans viewed him.
It’s not surprising he needs some ramp up time. I wish the Giants had invested in a starting caliber right tackle, and Peart was the heir apparent/swing guy.
you gonna root for Denver?
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
I don’t think many opinions are formed on 3 pre-season games, and practice reports, but think the O line is going to be a strength this year is not going to change any outcomes.
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so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
I don’t think many opinions are formed on 3 pre-season games, and practice reports, but think the O line is going to be a strength this year is not going to change any outcomes.
what else can it relatively be based on then ?
last year is last year
But it would have been nice if they had a better contingency for their second year tackle not being ready than goddam Nate Solder.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
Great analysis you did there - you said "Fuck it" -- and now we all know everything will be okay now with our OL.
Somehow you've convinced yourself that only 3 preseason games drew a potentially cautious outlook for the Giants. I guess last year having the 31st ranked offense doesn't matter. I guess analysis such as with SY who is not so high on the OL doesn't matter. I guess when you hear any analysis on radio or TV and they speak of potential concerns which is the OL - that doesn't matter to you either.
You said "fuck it" - so now we're comforted in knowing everything will be fine. We could've used this fine analysis you provided these last 8 years and it all could've gone the other way. All because of that great insight you made by stating "fuck it."
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so many of you have already formed such a strong opinion on everything based on 3 shit pre-season games and practice reports that you might have glanced at on this board.
I'm going all in on Giants Oline being a strength this year. fuck it.
Great analysis you did there - you said "Fuck it" -- and now we all know everything will be okay now with our OL.
Somehow you've convinced yourself that only 3 preseason games drew a potentially cautious outlook for the Giants. I guess last year having the 31st ranked offense doesn't matter. I guess analysis such as with SY who is not so high on the OL doesn't matter. I guess when you hear any analysis on radio or TV and they speak of potential concerns which is the OL - that doesn't matter to you either.
You said "fuck it" - so now we're comforted in knowing everything will be fine. We could've used this fine analysis you provided these last 8 years and it all could've gone the other way. All because of that great insight you made by stating "fuck it."
I meant to say 31st ranked OL.
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round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
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Everyone deserves to be fired or put on a real hot seat.
Amen. Apparently, Slater is living up to his billing thus far.
Meanwhile, Toney continues to be in the Giants Witness Protection Program.
Dude he had one half against the Rams who don't play any starters. Pump the fucking brakes. You are spreading things you know that are ridiculous.
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In comment 15355427 Zeke's Alibi said:
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round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
Two weak spots can be covered up? Good luck with that in NY.
And even if they could, who are all the great skill players that are going to do that? Jones has no pocket awareness and Saquon can’t block. Are the new WRs and TEs who are barely making it onto the field at this point going cover it all up?
And it's great to see some giant players responding to your "tweets".
Obviously they love it too!!
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In comment 15355427 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
round tackle right? If he turns out to be a long-term swing tackle type that's a decent draft pick. Everyone wants to point to the exception to the rule, but they forget how many guys fail after the top 50 or so picks.
But if Peart is a swing tackle, that means we don't have a starting right tackle, unless you're banking on Nate Solder playing Juan Ponce de Leon and finding the fountain of youth!
So what? Lots of teams have giant holes on their lines. AT is the real key, we need him to be a lynchpin. Gates is a very solid player and Hernendaz looks like a different player. You don't need an elite line to win a SB, shit you don't even need a good line, merely a competent one.
People have PTSD around here because it's been soooo bad, but if you have a weakspot or two on the line they can be covered up. It's when you have one guy that's a starter and bunch of barely fucking starters and backups it becomes a problem. Give me a decent line and great skill players, vs a great line and decent skill players. It's not 1985 anymore.
SO the 2nd most important position on the OL is "So what?"
I know it's not 1985 anymore. Maybe the point you made above means you should stop acting like it is?
There is no general rule - but you're acting like a Giants homer that no matter what happens is "so what?"
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I would have gladly taken Slater at G. Or at T. Or at C.
I really feel the arrogance and obstinance of this front office got in the way of them reinvesting in OL with a first round pick. Inexplicably, they believed they had the answers from the prior drafts.
Now we cross our fingers that Nate Solder somehow finds his groove from 2016. The last year he actually played well.
And we do this idiotic OL rotation plan. Yeah, that's going to work.
They had better hope that Toney turns out to be a real super star to draft him over a O lineman, which was, and still is their biggest need.
I liked Toney pre-draft, but thought we solved the WR issue with KG. With him, Shep, Slayton, and EE/KR, it seemed we had enough to finally have, on paper, a competent horizontal and vertical receiving team.
So I thought we reached for him instead of beefing up the OL with some solid prospects on the board at our pick. It's very hard to find good OLs, but first rounders tend to have a pretty good hit rate. WRs? Not as good of a hit rate...
This guy went what, 99th overall? So he is a year 2 player who was practically a day 3 guy. Out of Uconn no less.
The mistake here is not the actual pick...round 3 guys hit well below 50% so if Peart is a decent swing guy it’s a win. The real mistake is not having a better contingency plan than Solder.