It is amazing to me how the expectations have gone down the tubes in the last ten days or so. The questions surrounding Jones + the OL continue to persist despite Gettleman saying it was his main priority when hired to fix the OL.
Mike Florio came out with an article a few days ago regarding the potential dilemma of a new GM inheriting Judge if the Giants have a bad season. This was always the concern when Gettleman was retained after 2019. I like Judge, but it is concerning given the black cloud over the GM situation if this team does poorly.
So, where does this leave Judge? I think there are two options both of which include the next GM already in house:
The Giants struggle and miss playoffs
Under this scenario, I don’t see how Abrams could be elevated. I think DG would be let go, and Judge retained. I have a hunch the GM would be Kyle O’Brien who was an outside hire and had prior ties to the Pats. Judge & O’Brien would then be on the same schedule.
The Giants do well and make the playoffs
I think this is what Mara was banking on when retaining DG last year, and this is most likely the preferred succession plan. DG retires because he can say he turned the team around. Abrams is easily elevated to GM to continue working with Judge. They are both then on the same schedule.
It is just my opinion, but I think these are the two most likely scenarios. I see no way DG is back next year - I think a good season gives him an out to retire, and a poor season he is let go. I think the question is whether Abrams is elevated no matter what.
I’m hopeful with Judge, but I do wonder who the GM he ultimately will work with is. It’s important to get everyone on the same schedule.
"Going under on Giants 7 wins..."
"Spent a lot of money haphazardly. There is no plan..."
"Barkley gives you a lot of nothing plays even when he's healthy..."
If Gettleman had been in Eisenhower's shoes we'd have been speaking German by 1942.
A random sampling of 10 BBI posters would produce 6 or 7 people that would have done a better job than Gettleman. Almost every major decision has been wrong.
Second of all Florio is a hack, a troll and has no idea how the Mara's own and run their team.
THE MARA'S HIRE AND FIRE THE GM AND THE HC. BOTH THE GM AND THE HC REPORT TO THE MARA'S.
It makes no difference what schedule the Giants GM & HC are on. Neither one of them has the power or the authority to fire the other one. Any Giants GM and any Giants HC since Wellington died.
Tom Coughlin was the HC for 3 years before Jerry Reese was the GM (sound familiar). That worked out to 6 years in a row without a losing record and 2 Super Bowl wins. I'll sign up for that. Any takers?
It's quite possible if this is Gettleman's last year, by choice or he's Coughlin'd, that if Judge holds the same level of regard with the owners after this season that he does now that the owners will ask him who he would like to work with.
It's also quite possible that the next GM of the Giants is already in the building and has already been chosen by the Mara's with no input from Judge and nothing will change that. Less likely but still possible is that the next GM is not in the building yet.
Sooner rather than later the Giants will have a new GM. We're just going to have to wait and watch it play out.
Bitte schön!
I'm just hoping sh!t flushes down the toilet, I don't want to see it come back up. That's what plungers are for.
Ridiculous.
Beyond ridiculous.
Do you realize that you say this literally every season, and every season you've been wrong? I'm trying to be polite, but..
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the team is fine. Can we let this season play the fuck out first? Oh no ESPN thinks we're gonna suck! Man the fuck up already.
At some point you have to ask yourself, if I hate hearing how bad the team is to some people, why do I keep reading and commenting on it?
This is not specific to you, but the level of anger people have when they are told that a team that's been bad for 5+ years might be bad again for the same reasons, is weird.
At this point I believe they're trying to convince themselves as much as anyone else that the Giants being good this season, so anything to the contrary they have to shout down. Although I'll give Zeke credit, he put money down so he's got conviction about it
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and all bets are off
Feel a little bad for Gettleman,because I don't think he's as responsible anymore.The moves being made are much different,and don't really have the same feel.Like I said before,at times it seems like Reese is back.
But,he knows by now what he's dealing with.Just has to sit back and watch it all unfold.
How are the moves so much different? You mean the trading back this year in the draft?
I've blasted him since he 1st came aboard and signed Solder. But since Judge joined DG picked up two studs in FA last year.
But yes he traded back is positive.
Second - his big signings weren't old(older) players like Solder and Tate.
Third- not sure there was a desperate move like the Ogeltree move since last FA.
Fourth- I think he got a good coach. In one breath can't blast him for his lousy Shurmur signing / or as some will point he - he doesn't sign -- but we do know he has INPUT. Can't slam him for that then ignore the Judge move.
So yeah --things appear different.
SO yeha I think things are different.
I think in imaginary land, where my feelings as a Giants fan, are analogous to fighting WW2 — the outcome I’d avoid is getting my ass kicked year after year, making the same mistakes, and keeping many of the same people in charge.
I don’t imagine America’s strategy was, you just wait and see, this is going to work once every 5 years.
Second of all Florio is a hack, a troll and has no idea how the Mara's own and run their team.
THE MARA'S HIRE AND FIRE THE GM AND THE HC. BOTH THE GM AND THE HC REPORT TO THE MARA'S.
It makes no difference what schedule the Giants GM & HC are on. Neither one of them has the power or the authority to fire the other one. Any Giants GM and any Giants HC since Wellington died.
Tom Coughlin was the HC for 3 years before Jerry Reese was the GM (sound familiar). That worked out to 6 years in a row without a losing record and 2 Super Bowl wins. I'll sign up for that. Any takers?
It's quite possible if this is Gettleman's last year, by choice or he's Coughlin'd, that if Judge holds the same level of regard with the owners after this season that he does now that the owners will ask him who he would like to work with.
It's also quite possible that the next GM of the Giants is already in the building and has already been chosen by the Mara's with no input from Judge and nothing will change that. Less likely but still possible is that the next GM is not in the building yet.
Sooner rather than later the Giants will have a new GM. We're just going to have to wait and watch it play out.
Very well said and this makes me feel better. I just want Judge to have a full chance to succeed here.
They have a lot of talent if you open your eyes. They may still be a QB short but if they need to draft another one he will be coming into a good situation. The OL will be okay but it may need one more offseason to become very good.
I'm hoping DJ turns into Josh Allen '20, but the odds...well, I ain't putting $ on that.
Again, I hope I'm wrong. But I just have a feeling Jones isn't long to be our starting QB.
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In comment 15355257 ghost718 said:
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and all bets are off
Feel a little bad for Gettleman,because I don't think he's as responsible anymore.The moves being made are much different,and don't really have the same feel.Like I said before,at times it seems like Reese is back.
But,he knows by now what he's dealing with.Just has to sit back and watch it all unfold.
How are the moves so much different? You mean the trading back this year in the draft?
I've blasted him since he 1st came aboard and signed Solder. But since Judge joined DG picked up two studs in FA last year.
But yes he traded back is positive.
Second - his big signings weren't old(older) players like Solder and Tate.
Third- not sure there was a desperate move like the Ogeltree move since last FA.
Fourth- I think he got a good coach. In one breath can't blast him for his lousy Shurmur signing / or as some will point he - he doesn't sign -- but we do know he has INPUT. Can't slam him for that then ignore the Judge move.
So yeah --things appear different.
SO yeha I think things are different.
Maybe you're right. Things have gone from disastrous to just below average...
It is crazy when looking at the last 15 years of this franchise, the only people in the organization that got to choose a QB were Pat Shurmur & Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese never even got that opportunity.
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I agree that Judge mustn't be sacrificed due to the incompetence he inherited. As far as I'm concerned he hasn't had a chance to even start his project yet. I want to see him pick his quarterback.
It is crazy when looking at the last 15 years of this franchise, the only people in the organization that got to choose a QB were Pat Shurmur & Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese never even got that opportunity.
Why not? Reese wasn't allowed to do so?
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I agree that Judge mustn't be sacrificed due to the incompetence he inherited. As far as I'm concerned he hasn't had a chance to even start his project yet. I want to see him pick his quarterback.
It is crazy when looking at the last 15 years of this franchise, the only people in the organization that got to choose a QB were Pat Shurmur & Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese never even got that opportunity.
What about that 'Cuse QB...Nassib or something? I think we took him in the 3rd or 4th round.
I don't know this is MMQB, but McAdoo was apparently enamored with Mahomes. And-based on his play in KC-I can see why. That said, I doubt Mahomes is Mahomes if he's a Giant right now. He landed in the perfect spot.
Gotcha. Well, depending on how this fall goes, JJ might have his opportunity next spring. Because if this season goes badly, I don't see how DG survives, especially considering the amount of $ we shelled out this offseason.
Have a feeling the front office was doing everything they could to put their fingers in the ever-increasing holes in the dike...more commonly known as The Roster.
Eli was a luxury for them since he never missed games, but they never planned for the future and it came quicker than some imagined. Unless of course the future was the train-wreck backups they kept throwing out there during preseason games...
It's not what he was allowed to do, it's what opportunity he had. What QB would he have chosen? He inherited Eli and was gone before Eli retired.
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Why not? Reese wasn't allowed to do so?
It's not what he was allowed to do, it's what opportunity he had. What QB would he have chosen? He inherited Eli and was gone before Eli retired.
That is fair. Eli's game started showing issues during the early parts of that 2016 season. Enough imv that they needed to be seriously scouting QBs in that next draft.
Maybe they did...who knows. Either way, as you state that would have been Reese's only chance...
Bite your tongue. EE was a Pro Bowler, Haha.
With all the poor drafts Reese had why would anyone want him picking the next QB? Especially with his sidekick Ross. I do think those two wanted both TC and Eli out for sometime which is telling.
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I agree that Judge mustn't be sacrificed due to the incompetence he inherited. As far as I'm concerned he hasn't had a chance to even start his project yet. I want to see him pick his quarterback.
It is crazy when looking at the last 15 years of this franchise, the only people in the organization that got to choose a QB were Pat Shurmur & Dave Gettleman. Jerry Reese never even got that opportunity.
It’s amazing, but Pat Shurmur is probably the most qualified guy to pick a QB the Giants have had in the building post-Coughlin.
The consistently competitive teams are constantly looking to improve their roster and the most forward thinking have adopted a strategy of drafting QBs when they don't need a QB or moving on very quickly when they realize the starting QB can't play.
Look at KC picking Mahomes when they had Alex Smith, Baltimore trading up to pick Lamar when they had the stiff formerly known as Flacco still QB1 on huge contract, or SF picking Trey Lance at #5 when they invested a 2nd round pick for Jimmy Godawfullo and huge contract, or Packers pissing off Rodgers by taking Jordan Love, or Cards taking Kyler Murray and dumping everyone's favorite almost Giant Josh Rosen, or the Rams...but not the Giants. No they want a franchise QB to be protected from competition and always know the guy holding the clip board was hired to just hold the clip board.
Jones is a stiff. He might be a serviceable QB in the most pristine environment, but he is not the transcendent talent that you really want to pick at #6 overall and expect to change the trajectory of the team. No one can accuse DG of not doing everything he could to make this team a contender by surrounding Jones with talent, but if Giants miss the playoffs then I think the team needs to move on from DG and really consider whether Jones is the guy at QB in 2022. I hope he proves me wrong.
The consistently competitive teams are constantly looking to improve their roster and the most forward thinking have adopted a strategy of drafting QBs when they don't need a QB or moving on very quickly when they realize the starting QB can't play.
Look at KC picking Mahomes when they had Alex Smith, Baltimore trading up to pick Lamar when they had the stiff formerly known as Flacco still QB1 on huge contract, or SF picking Trey Lance at #5 when they invested a 2nd round pick for Jimmy Godawfullo and huge contract, or Packers pissing off Rodgers by taking Jordan Love, or Cards taking Kyler Murray and dumping everyone's favorite almost Giant Josh Rosen, or the Rams...but not the Giants. No they want a franchise QB to be protected from competition and always know the guy holding the clip board was hired to just hold the clip board.
Jones is a stiff. He might be a serviceable QB in the most pristine environment, but he is not the transcendent talent that you really want to pick at #6 overall and expect to change the trajectory of the team. No one can accuse DG of not doing everything he could to make this team a contender by surrounding Jones with talent, but if Giants miss the playoffs then I think the team needs to move on from DG and really consider whether Jones is the guy at QB in 2022. I hope he proves me wrong.
IS this post a joke?
You mean DG did everything he could by building that 31st ranked OL?
With the OL? The 31st ranked OL?
What happens when you flush your toilet?!
Brother, nothing is supposed to show up!
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The Giants front office will never take the lead and break with tradition to utilize the newest developing trends in roster management the NFL. They will only follow smarter teams' example after they have exhausted every other option.
The consistently competitive teams are constantly looking to improve their roster and the most forward thinking have adopted a strategy of drafting QBs when they don't need a QB or moving on very quickly when they realize the starting QB can't play.
Look at KC picking Mahomes when they had Alex Smith, Baltimore trading up to pick Lamar when they had the stiff formerly known as Flacco still QB1 on huge contract, or SF picking Trey Lance at #5 when they invested a 2nd round pick for Jimmy Godawfullo and huge contract, or Packers pissing off Rodgers by taking Jordan Love, or Cards taking Kyler Murray and dumping everyone's favorite almost Giant Josh Rosen, or the Rams...but not the Giants. No they want a franchise QB to be protected from competition and always know the guy holding the clip board was hired to just hold the clip board.
Jones is a stiff. He might be a serviceable QB in the most pristine environment, but he is not the transcendent talent that you really want to pick at #6 overall and expect to change the trajectory of the team. No one can accuse DG of not doing everything he could to make this team a contender by surrounding Jones with talent, but if Giants miss the playoffs then I think the team needs to move on from DG and really consider whether Jones is the guy at QB in 2022. I hope he proves me wrong.
IS this post a joke?
You mean DG did everything he could by building that 31st ranked OL?
Assuming he meant DG made a lot of moves to help the OL (which he did), not that they were ultimately successful...
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In comment 15355724 kdog77 said:
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T
IS this post a joke?
You mean DG did everything he could by building that 31st ranked OL?
Assuming he meant DG made a lot of moves to help the OL (which he did), not that they were ultimately successful...
huh???????????
You mean his post was meant to give the unsuccessful GM kudos for trying? That's like saying "everyone deserves a trophy" nonsense.
In the paragraph he is giving DG kudos for trying he is slamming Jones performance. You mean in the same paragraph he talking about performance with one guy and only trying with the other?
I doubt it. I think your take is off base.
But LWs on field performance and talent was never the issue or the substance of my criticism. The issue was DGs use of draft picks during a losing season on a soon to be UFA who wanted to stay in NYC and Getty losing leverage in negotiation and over paying. LW is a terrific player, one of my favorite current Giants and I’m glad he’s on our team. The Big Cat hunts! But none of this changes my opinion that DG mangled the getting of LW at every single juncture. The juice was not worth the squeeze and the squeeze was almost certainly entirely unnecessary.
And while LW may have had a great season, the Giants under Getty have not. Getty’s success shouldn’t be measured against his ability to get a player like LW or draft a player like Barks. The challenge is to get these players at the right time, in the right order and at the right cost while building a progressively improving team. The measure of success is wins. For whatever reason, trades, drafting, FAs, coaching choices, salary cap, it is indisputable that Getty has failed to make the Giants a winning team.
I stand by my criticism, I haven’t gone anywhere, and I think it’s kind of strange that anyone would be dunking on those of us that have been well reasoned in our critical analysis of Getty and the Giants.
Come on man. You think I don’t want the Giants to win a Supe? I’ve been a Giants fan all my life and nothing would diminish my enjoyment of hoisting another Lombardi. If it’s Getty and Jones hoisting the hardware any time soon I’ll certainly be very surprised and happily contrite. But my joy will be whole.
What I don’t understand is this silliness that a Giants fan has to ignore the past decade of undeniable failure and have blind faith in all of these people (players and front office) that have only brought more failure. You’re a better fan than I am because you ignore Getty’s blunders or attribute them to some heretofore unrealized secret plan for success?
good post...
Lunacy on so many levels.
But it's been typical of the posters that defend DG (as of this moment I'm okay as of now because I see next year they can finally be very good) - that if you criticize DG then it means the poster that criticizes wants his team to lose.
Are some of you DG supporters for real? Your post is just so lunatic. It's as if you are saying any Giants fan that disagrees with you means they want their team to lose.
Cna you be any more of a nut?
We get so deep into picking sides that you're doing the same thing FMIC was guilty of. "It's me and DG against the world. I'm gonna laugh when (THE GUY WHO SITS IN A SUIT IN AN OFFICE) is holding up a trophy".
Just stop. Return to reality.