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A Look Back at the Five Close Games We Lost Last Year

gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2021 12:35 pm
The question is by losing:
Zeitler, Flemming, Tomlinson, Harper, Ballantine, Tate, Downs and Gallman
and by gaining:
Golloday, Jackson, Rudolph, Barkley, McKinley, Shelton and Booker

Could the Giants have won these five games?

Here are the games and Sy's review of each linked:

Sept 20 Game 2 at Chicago Giants 13 Bears 17
Sy's Game 2 Review
Some Highlights
- We lost Barkley for the season and Shep got injured and left the game
- it was Thomases' 2nd game as a rookie and he got abused
- the Defense hadn't gelled yet and was having problems making 3rd down stops
- Ballentine, Tomlinson, Downs and Peppers were getting beat or pushed back on 3rd and 4th down plays
- Jones had a Turnover problem and seemed indecisive

October 4 Game 4 at Rams Giants 9 Rams 17
Sy's Game 4 Review
Some Highlights
- first possession was a drop, a sack and a loss of yardage play – 3 and out
– Zeitler and Thomas got pummeled this game – arguably a Zeitler false start cost the Giants points – Hernandez and Gates had a good game, and this is the game that Gates got into a fight with Aaron Donald and changed the game tempo in the second half
- Jones was inaccurate at the end of the game costing chances to score; his receivers were Tate and Slayton and a bunch of no names.
- Edge got no pressure on LA but the DLine held the Rams to 58 yds rushing – there were problems setting the edge
- Ryan Lewis playing opposite Bradburry gave up a lot of pass plays by giving too much cushion – Love gave up a touchdown on a coverage breakdown
– Lawrence had a monster game

October 11 Game 5 at Cowboys Giants 34 Cowboys 37
Sy's Game 5 Review
Some Highlights
- note the Giants won the Home game against the Cowboys on 1/3 23-19
- Jones had a Fumble
- Freeman had a good game – the Giants were power running
– Slayton had a decent game – Tate did not and the no name receiving core out there was an issue, Ratley was called for PI taking away a Slayton Touchdown, Engram was a mixed bag
- Thomas and Flemming were a disaster his game – but Hernandez Gates and Zeitler had a good game – a lot of good lateral pulling helped the run game
– Carter suffered a season ending Achilles injury on the first drive of the game, Fackrel had a good game
– the D Line did not have a good game except for Tomlinson – - Darney Holmes was having tackling issues, Ryan Lewis gave up some big plays in the backfield to Michael Gallup and CeeDee Lamb – who plain up just beat him in coverage – Adrian Colbert Played safety instead of Love and gave up two personal fouls

October 22 Game 7 at Eagles Giants 21 Eagles 22
Sy's Game 7 Review
Some Highlights
- Note the Giants won the Home game on 11/15 27-17
- Ballentine flubbed a special teams opportunity
- Engram had a ball go off his hands for an interception
- Dion Lewis fumbled and turned the ball over with a minute left in the first half
- Hernandez put the team back on it’s heals as they tried to close out in the 4th Q with a holding penalty, Jones fumbled and turned over two plays later
- Freeman got injured and was out of the game – Gallman became the feature running back
– Sheps first game back from injury was a good one but he was the only game in town, Tate and Slayton made no noise at all.
- Andrew Thomas had his worst game of the season, Hernandez struggled, Flemming Struggled, Gates had a good game.
- Tomlinson gave up some big plays up the center.
- Bradberry had a rough game and was flagged for a PI on the game winning drive, Ryan Lewis was torched and was flagged for illegal contact, Ballentine gave up a 3rd and 10 conversion and a illegal hit penalty, Madre Harper was torched, Peppers gave up the game winning TD on a bad play

November 2 Game 8 at Home Bucs 23 Giants 25
Sy's Game 8 Review
Some Highlights
- Jones had a poor game with problems taking advantage of the young TB secondary which even our poor WR class was getting open on
– Jones was facing big pressure all game and was rattled by the pass rush, he gave up two interceptions that he probably shouldn’t have thrown – that became 10 points for TB,
- Slayton had a good game – Tate had a key touchdown and this was the game where he yelled out “throw me the ball.”,
- the running game of Morris, Galman and Lewis was pretty good but Dion Lewis gave up a sack.
- Flemming was a turnstyle – he gave up three pressures and a sack – one of his pressures led to a Jones interception. Lemiuex had his first start and he got roughed up pretty good. Gates and Zeitler had a good game.
- There was no edge pressure on Brady from the outside rush which was neutralized (Fackrel and newly signed Jabaal Sheard)
– the D Line had a very good game and they did get pressure on Brady. A Tomlinson tip led to a turnover for Martinez.
- Secondary was decent but Bradburry (covering Davis) gave up a TD and 2 pass interference calls

Make some arguments either way by discussing the personnel changes made after the season and actual events that occurred in the game that may or may not have been different with the change in staff

By the way -- The Giants were 4-2 in the division last year beating Washington Twice and losing two of the squeakers above




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nice job on this.  
gmen4ever : 9/9/2021 3:17 pm : link
Good insight. I think we could have won maybe 2 of those games, but assuming we will not have injuries may be a bit of a reach. Also, if DJ or EE are not more consistent, it may not matter.
Im worried about Barkley  
Rudy5757 : 9/9/2021 3:26 pm : link
After his ankle injury a few years agao he came back and was not good. Now coming off a much bigger injury will he play tentativel. Im not ready to say he will be great again. Combine that with an OL that doesnt seem to have improved and I think its a toss up on improvement on O.

The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.

I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.

I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.
RE: .  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2021 3:26 pm : link
In comment 15357138 Go Terps said:
Quote:
One thing to remember about last year is that the Giants were right there defensively with Tampa, Buffalo, KC, and GB. They won a lot and the Giants didn't because offense wins in today's NFL. Only one team that finished in three bottom half in scoring finished over .500 - the Rams.

The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.

Maybe. If the Giants scored 21 points in every game last year that puts them at 9 wins, atop the division and in the playoffs. If the defense keeps trending upward we may still get away with a lower scoring offense this year. But if the offense ticks to where you said we are as good or better on defense we will be in the playoffs no question. And 25ppg is not exactly world-beating as an average at this point. I think this particular point on scoring average 100% hinges on the play of the OL. They have to improve. Then to your point Jones has no excuses.
RE: Im worried about Barkley  
Dnew15 : 9/9/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15357195 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
After his ankle injury a few years agao he came back and was not good. Now coming off a much bigger injury will he play tentativel. Im not ready to say he will be great again. Combine that with an OL that doesnt seem to have improved and I think its a toss up on improvement on O.

The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.

I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.

I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.


I think a 50% SB is better than what the Giants were throwing out there at RB last year.

I think Booker is better than the hot garbage at RB last year too.
RE: RE: RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2021 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15357186 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15357181 gidiefor said:


Quote:


In comment 15357138 Go Terps said:


Quote:


One thing to remember about last year is that the Giants were right there defensively with Tampa, Buffalo, KC, and GB. They won a lot and the Giants didn't because offense wins in today's NFL. Only one team that finished in three bottom half in scoring finished over .500 - the Rams.

The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.



This is where you are continually soo so painfully wrong about NFL football - you need both -- but the facts are you only need a better than adequate offense -- you need a really good defense to win championships



Back to his point though, how many teams that scored less than 25 PPG had a winning record last season?

Was it only the Rams?


Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.

Also of note, all the teams that scored at least 25 PPG had a .500 or better record except for Minnesota (who at least put up a 7-9 record).

RE: IMO..  
jomps : 9/9/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15357007 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
the biggest key to all those games is that Jones had the ball in his hands at the end of the game with a chance to win the it. He was 0fer.

That's a huge problem.


Hi Dnew15, how are you doing?

I think every Giants fan can agree Jones has to play better for us to have a chance at a Super Bowl, where people differ is if he has it in him to raise his level of play.

So let's be fair here, Jones played 8 close games last season.

Week 2 13-17 Bears: We'd have the ball down 4 with 4 minutes to go and then an OL made a miraculous grab for them. We then got the ball with 2:40 and no timeouts, plenty of time left for the comeback. We then complete a 3rd & 10, 4th & 4 and a 3rd & 10 where we got COMPLETELY screwed in ball positioning by the refs which led to us losing 10 seconds with 22 to go and put us on a 1 play 10 yards away from the endzone to end the game.

Week 4 9-17 Rams: Our last 2 drives were going great but ended in a 4th & 11 incompletion where the ball was a little bit high but Tate should have caught it, and DJ was great in the last drive up until a terrible INT, unnecessary throw where it looks like the ball lacked zip.

Week 5 34-37 Cowboys: Got some lucky bounces our way to begin the 4th quarter, Jones had a very good throw with 1:40 to go but the drive stalled after that. Dallas got the ball with 48 seconds left at 34-34 and nearly drove the entire field.

Week 6 20-19 WFT: Jones threw a terrible RZ INT late in the 3rd quarter that led the game to a 13-13 tie. Our offense never scored after mid-2nd quarter, awful way to close out a game but we did win it.

Week 7 21-22 Eagles: 21-10 with five minutes to go, this game was a defensive meltdown (a rare feat last season). We were having a very good drive to put the game to rest and then came that EE drop in a perfect DJ pass. We got it back with 40 seconds, no timeouts. Easy 7-yard pass to start the drive called back after a holding penalty that cost us 11 seconds. 29 seconds left, pocket collapsed, Jones held the ball too long, didn't sense the pressure from behind and fumbled the ball win 23 seconds left to essentialy end the game.

Week 8 23-25 TB: To me this game was both the lowest point in DJ's career and the day he started to fully understand how to QB in the NFL effectively. We'll see if that trend continues this season, but to me he's been playing smart football ever since the 2nd INT in this game. He did had a nothing short than awesome drive to end the game, with a 4th & 5 and 4th & 16 conversion and an absolute dime to Golden Tate for the TD. I do think he was a little bit slow in the 2 point conversion, but it was more a terrific play by a great player (Winfield Jr.).

Week 9 23-20 WFT: Again vs WFT the offense started great and stalled in the 2nd half. This D was a problem for a LOT of teams last season. 2 INT's in the last 5 minutes won us this game.

Week 17 23-19 Cowboys: Jones played a very good game in the biggest spot he's been so far in his career, a maybe win-and-in scenario.

Sorry for the long post.

Obviously we want to see some higher scoring games from our team and there were some self inflicted wound with stupid penalties, very bad pass blocking and some DJ brain farts.

As you can see it was more of a mixed bag, with more bad coming in the beginning of the season and more of the good stuff coming towards the end. The only reason why week 10 27-17 vs the eagles wasn't a closer game was that DJ did what he is supposed to do and put the game to bed early. Didn't count Bengals 19-17 game because he was injured, but was playing well before that.

Anyway, I hope and believe he'll show up as a better, more complete QB this season.
RE: Im worried about Barkley  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2021 3:35 pm : link
In comment 15357195 Rudy5757 said:
Quote:
After his ankle injury a few years agao he came back and was not good. Now coming off a much bigger injury will he play tentativel. Im not ready to say he will be great again. Combine that with an OL that doesnt seem to have improved and I think its a toss up on improvement on O.

The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.

I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.

I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.


It was Corey Ballentine, Ryan Lewis and Madre Harper opposite Bradberry - each of them was benched and/or replaced by one of the others at some point -- they were terrible

Adoree Jackson replacing those guys is huge!!!
On Jones, what are our expectations for him?  
Angel Eyes : 9/9/2021 3:35 pm : link
Pro Bowl? Deep Playoff run?

Let's set down a goalpost.
RE: I know I'm beating the drum  
Racer : 9/9/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15357107 JonC said:
Quote:

If the defense improves on the edges and gets off the fookin field more on third downs, it will help give the offense more ToP and help finish winS each season.


Amen. As a relatively disliked talking head likes to say, "playing a lot less defense can have the same effect as playing better defense"
gidie  
jomps : 9/9/2021 3:39 pm : link
To answer your question, obviously we "could" have won those 5 games. I think it's likely we'd win the Bears, Cowboys and Eagles game. Lose the Rams and Bucs game because to me the reason we didn't win those 2 were DJ.

But more importantly I do think we have the roster and coaching to have a good shot at winning every game we play this season. How many of them bounce our way I don't know, maybe something between 8-11?
I'll admit...  
Dnew15 : 9/9/2021 3:49 pm : link
I'm spoiled.

Having Eli as the QB of my favorite team will do that to you.

When Eli was in his prime, and the game was close, and he had the ball in his hands with a chance to win - you just knew he was going to make it happen.

I don't get that feeling with DJ...yet.

He's got one more year to convince me..then I'm out.
RE: RE: IMO..  
cjac : 9/9/2021 3:49 pm : link
In comment 15357200 jomps said:
Quote:


Week 8 23-25 TB: To me this game was both the lowest point in DJ's career and the day he started to fully understand how to QB in the NFL effectively. We'll see if that trend continues this season, but to me he's been playing smart football ever since the 2nd INT in this game. He did had a nothing short than awesome drive to end the game, with a 4th & 5 and 4th & 16 conversion and an absolute dime to Golden Tate for the TD. I do think he was a little bit slow in the 2 point conversion, but it was more a terrific play by a great player (Winfield Jr.).




2 plays in this game, both forced throws in the second half that were INTs ruined the game and ruined how Daniel Jones is viewed by the fans, the media, opposing fans and the other teams in the league. All he had to do was chuck those balls out of bounds instead of forcing the ball and he wins the game.

the MO on Daniel Jones is that he turns the ball over, he forces things, and that he's not a smart QB. Until he changes that, if he keeps turning the ball over at an alarming rate, the opinion on him will remain the same.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Strahan91 : 9/9/2021 3:51 pm : link
In comment 15357198 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.


The year prior there were 5 of them and 2 years prior there were 4. So last season is likely the outlier.
The past only matters  
Big Blue '56 : 9/9/2021 4:01 pm : link
if it’s 2018..
One thing remains consistent  
joeinpa : 9/9/2021 4:10 pm : link
Every year in the NFL, the previous season has absolutely no bearing on how a team will perform in the current one.

This is not to diminish the pt you re making though, the Giants should be a better team this season
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2021 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15357216 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
In comment 15357198 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:



Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.




The year prior there were 5 of them and 2 years prior there were 4. So last season is likely the outlier.


Got it, thx. Yet still a pretty small amount of teams nevertheless. So the point on points remains.

And it's not like anybody should be expecting some resurgence of the Steel Curtain and Purple People Eaters types around the league lowering the scoring trends...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2021 4:24 pm : link
In comment 15357242 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


Got it, thx. Yet still a pretty small amount of teams nevertheless. So the point on points remains.

And it's not like anybody should be expecting some resurgence of the Steel Curtain and Purple People Eaters types around the league lowering the scoring trends...

Agreed, and to be fair averaging 25 points per game in this version of the NFL really should absolutely be attainable.

This season can't start fast enough... lol. OMG do I hope the OL proves to be well improved.
RE: RE: It's also littered  
Dinger : 9/9/2021 4:26 pm : link
In comment 15357126 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15357120 JonC said:


Quote:


with players not performing up to billing, it's time to shrink the delta on the football field. LFG.



Especially on the O line..
Here's where I've been stumped lately. We've changed the players. We've changed the coaches, we've changed the GM. We can't seem to consistently find (draft or FA), develop, or coach our OL. I don't know that this year is any different in that regard. I'm hoping the talent added 'around' the OL can help, but looking at our FA and draft moves, our cutting 90 percent of the 2nd team OL 3 weeks before game1 still seems like something a winning franchise doesn't do. Makes me feel as though we are still 'searching' in all aspects of OL. Thats my biggest worry for this season.
Close games records oscillate on a year to year basis  
BH28 : 9/9/2021 4:28 pm : link
You look at teams that went 10-6 to 6-10 and the difference is they lost or won close games.

It is ridiculously hard to not have a some sort of regression or improvement in close games W/L due to chance, roster improvement/detoriation, injury, etc.

I'd agree with others that say looking at close games from last year and trying to project that to this year's roster doesnt really correlate.

RE: The past only matters  
Chris684 : 9/9/2021 4:32 pm : link
In comment 15357225 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if it’s 2018..


So simple yet so true.

RE: Bad premise  
bw in dc : 9/9/2021 4:33 pm : link
In comment 15357085 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
You can't postulate about close losses without applying the same scrutiny to close wins in order to make a credible argument.


That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
RE: RE: Bad premise  
Chris684 : 9/9/2021 4:39 pm : link
In comment 15357270 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15357085 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


You can't postulate about close losses without applying the same scrutiny to close wins in order to make a credible argument.



That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...


Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
Not sure why so many are shitting on this thread.  
Johnny5 : 9/9/2021 4:45 pm : link
It's a simple fucking concept, and wasn't meant to be some analytical or statistical thesis... lol.

Replace the 2020 skill players with who we have now, and determine how many wins that garners in close games.

Does anyone disagree that we don't win more games?

I feel it gives us at least 2 of those games.

We already know the answer to that question with number of posters though... lol.
RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
bw in dc : 9/9/2021 4:47 pm : link
In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
Quote:


That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?


He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Chris684 : 9/9/2021 4:53 pm : link
In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


Quote:




That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.


Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
RE: Not sure why so many are shitting on this thread.  
Jimmy Googs : 9/9/2021 5:00 pm : link
In comment 15357284 Johnny5 said:
Quote:
It's a simple fucking concept, and wasn't meant to be some analytical or statistical thesis... lol.

Replace the 2020 skill players with who we have now, and determine how many wins that garners in close games.

Does anyone disagree that we don't win more games?

I feel it gives us at least 2 of those games.

We already know the answer to that question with number of posters though... lol.


Can make it simpler than that...

The 2021 NY Giants have a better roster of available players than they did last season. A better roster should yield better results.

That's all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
bw in dc : 9/9/2021 5:01 pm : link
In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:
Quote:


Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.


I'm actually pretty amazed we got six wins last year.

Graham kept us in quite a few games - granted we were in a cesspool of a division - despite an anemic offense that scored 17+ PPG. So I feel great about another year with him at the helm and more talent on that side of the ball.

But playing in this what-if-fantasy-land seems very silly...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Old Blue : 9/9/2021 6:00 pm : link
In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


Quote:




That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.



Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.


Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Chris684 : 9/9/2021 6:41 pm : link
In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


Quote:




That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.



Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.



Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.


Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.

That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.

Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.

If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Old Blue : 9/9/2021 6:58 pm : link
In comment 15357381 Chris684 said:
Quote:
In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


Quote:




That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.



Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.



Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.



Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.

That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.

Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.

If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.


No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.
only some would say  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2021 7:48 pm : link
you being one of them - and quite an ignorant comment too
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2021 7:49 pm : link
In comment 15357391 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15357381 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:


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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.



Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.



Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.



Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.

That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.

Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.

If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.



No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.


by the way -- if all you do is repeat the same thing over and over again maybe twelve to twenty times a thread - you will be treated like a troll
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Old Blue : 9/9/2021 8:01 pm : link
In comment 15357424 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 15357391 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15357381 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:


Quote:


In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:


Quote:




That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.

Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.

If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...



Is gidiefor really making this argument though?

It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?



He assumes the other teams are static.

It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?

- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.



Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.

Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.



Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.



Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.

That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.

Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.

If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.



No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.



by the way -- if all you do is repeat the same thing over and over again maybe twelve to twenty times a thread - you will be treated like a troll


I keep saying the same things, because nothing has changed with the teams record. I don’t grasp at every little straw thinking that more will come out, and everything is alive and well, and wear blue colored glasses all the time. I don’t ask for much just a simple 9-8 record. I’ve been a fan since 1960, so I have seen all the good, the bad, and ugly. Call it trolling all you want.
Old Blue  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/9/2021 8:36 pm : link
trolling is against our Terms of Usage
Gronk just ran the TD play the way Engram should have run it  
CT Charlie : 9/9/2021 9:19 pm : link
vs. the Patriots. Sure, there were differences in the details, but the point is that Gronk knows where to be in order to score, whereas Engram doesn't.
.  
Go Terps : 9/9/2021 10:58 pm : link
If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.
The Giants were also a shoestring tackle away from losing to the Ryan  
Ned In Atlanta : 9/9/2021 11:18 pm : link
Finely led bengals. The time for excuses has passed. This team needs to win. Not 7 or 8 games as much as the BBI shills would like to tell us is improvement. Playoffs or Gettleman is gone
RE: .  
Route 9 : 9/10/2021 2:57 am : link
In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.


In 2021 NFL, 31-29 seems kind of ... average.

In 2020, Giants AVERAGED just over 17 points a game. That is horrid. They were lucky to total six wins.
RE: RE: RE: It's also littered  
JonC : 9/10/2021 8:36 am : link
In comment 15357257 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 15357126 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15357120 JonC said:


Quote:


with players not performing up to billing, it's time to shrink the delta on the football field. LFG.



Especially on the O line..

Here's where I've been stumped lately. We've changed the players. We've changed the coaches, we've changed the GM. We can't seem to consistently find (draft or FA), develop, or coach our OL. I don't know that this year is any different in that regard. I'm hoping the talent added 'around' the OL can help, but looking at our FA and draft moves, our cutting 90 percent of the 2nd team OL 3 weeks before game1 still seems like something a winning franchise doesn't do. Makes me feel as though we are still 'searching' in all aspects of OL. Thats my biggest worry for this season.


They definitely are still searching for an OL. Until the five parts perform accordingly, they'll be searching.
RE: .  
GNewGiants : 9/10/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.


Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:

255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.

So there goes that theory.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Bad premise  
Brown_Hornet : 9/10/2021 8:57 am : link
In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:
Quote:
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
So stay off of the thread you prick?
RE: RE: RE: ......  
Brown_Hornet : 9/10/2021 9:26 am : link
In comment 15357165 Route 9 said:
Quote:



I'm contributing just fine. This thread is a nothing burger. Yeah they lost close call games and wound up 6-10. I'm actually just savings thing in you're getting mad.

The Rams game summary is actually off. It was kind of dismissive of Tate and making excuses for Jones (as per usual on here) that he didn't have that good players around him... but what else is new? You guys get pissy when someone dares to mention when he fucks up. I get he's your team's QB but he's open for some criticism.

If anything he's the one who should shoulder blame for that game against the Rams. He had plenty of time to throw and make a good read, and threw the interception, and as I alluded to earlier (your feelings may get hurt) when he overthrew Tate on the 4th down. Watch the play again, even the analysis of the commenator mentioned it was a badly thrown ball.

Someone also mentioned the Tampa Bay miss on the 2 point conversion, which was a horrible game for Jones. Sorry I'm not the protective type?

Either way Tate did his part in that game and he got open. If anything it was Jones who fucked up on the 4th and long and the interception at the end of the game.
A nothing burger?

So move on. Ignore it.

You wait for someone to post something positive about the team, and you "come to the rescue" by letting those in the conversation know that they are WRONG!
That there's no good reason to enjoy the start of the season. That the GM/QB/whomever...stinks and that hope is stupid.

Find someplace else to take a shit.
RE: RE: .  
rsjem1979 : 9/10/2021 9:29 am : link
In comment 15358070 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.



Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:

255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.

So there goes that theory.


It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.

That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.
RE: RE: RE: .  
GNewGiants : 9/10/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15358136 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 15358070 GNewGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.



Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:

255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.

So there goes that theory.



It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.

That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.


And they got half their rushing yards in the first half. So context is key. They ran the ball the whole game. Thanks for proving my point. TB ran the ball better in the playoffs than in the regular season by nearly 30%. Quite a big jump.
RE: RE: .  
Jimmy Googs : 9/10/2021 9:35 am : link
In comment 15358070 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:


Quote:


If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.



Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:

255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.

So there goes that theory.


?? You really think scoring points and it coming via passing game in today's NFL is some kind of "theory"?

Do some more research...
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
rsjem1979 : 9/10/2021 9:42 am : link
In comment 15358143 GNewGiants said:
Quote:

It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.

That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.



And they got half their rushing yards in the first half. So context is key. They ran the ball the whole game. Thanks for proving my point. TB ran the ball better in the playoffs than in the regular season by nearly 30%. Quite a big jump.


Your point is that Tampa ran the ball effectively in the playoffs, but also threw it extremely well and scored a shitload of points as a result?

I'm sure you want that to prove that running the ball wins games and scores points, but it doesn't and you're wrong and ridiculous.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
GNewGiants : 9/10/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15358154 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:

Your point is that Tampa ran the ball effectively in the playoffs, but also threw it extremely well and scored a shitload of points as a result?

I'm sure you want that to prove that running the ball wins games and scores points, but it doesn't and you're wrong and ridiculous.


IMO, I dont think they threw the ball extremely well in the playoffs last year. Maybe effectively. And remember - we cant count the Washington game as a good game because they had a losing record (according to some here on BBI.... haha)
Gnew  
Jimmy Googs : 9/10/2021 10:15 am : link
Look forward to you supporting your "thesis" that scoring in the NFL today actually doesn't come out of the passing game.

Will check back on the thread later to see if your position can be backed up...
my favorite part of bbi is the contradicting axioms  
Eric on Li : 9/10/2021 10:43 am : link
"you are what your record is" but
"the schedule last year was the reason they even won 6 games" or "they only won 1 game vs. a good team" and
"any signs of progress are false hope" regardless of context

it's really not that complicated - last year's team made very few big plays on offense and made too many mistakes (many of which negated big plays that would have flipped the outcome of games mentioned by the OP). despite that they were competitive most weeks.

if they clean up mistakes (better OL play would help)
and make more big plays (barkley, golladay, toney, better Jones should help)

then they should win more games. writing off their competitiveness last year as "same old" seems to completely lack the context of a having a promising first year head coach, what was I believe the youngest starting 22 in football, and what I also believe objectively turned out to actually be one of the harder schedules in football.

One of their 3rd place finishers from 2019 turned out to be Tampa, who obviously was a higher quality opponent than the formula would have expected. As weak as the NFCE was the NFCW has been probably the strongest division in the NFC for a few years now. The AFC North had 3 teams win 11+ games.
......  
Route 9 : 9/10/2021 12:04 pm : link
Yeah. Or you can do your part as an adult, be bold and also understand the situation you're in, that this is not how the internet works. I guess it's your first day here and people may hurt your feelings because someone criticized a thread (happens all the time to me by people who never start them) or a player you like. I will admit that the comical part here is that the hypersensitivity is connected to a team who had a "good" season to some because they won a total of six games.

Self-knowledge is your first step. Tonight maybe a surprise, this year maybe a surprise, you just never know.
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