The question is by losing:
Zeitler, Flemming, Tomlinson, Harper, Ballantine, Tate, Downs and Gallman
and by gaining:
Golloday, Jackson, Rudolph, Barkley, McKinley, Shelton and Booker
Could the Giants have won these five games?
Here are the games and Sy's review of each linked:
Sept 20 Game 2 at Chicago Giants 13 Bears 17
Sy's Game 2 Review
Some Highlights
- We lost Barkley for the season and Shep got injured and left the game
- it was Thomases' 2nd game as a rookie and he got abused
- the Defense hadn't gelled yet and was having problems making 3rd down stops
- Ballentine, Tomlinson, Downs and Peppers were getting beat or pushed back on 3rd and 4th down plays
- Jones had a Turnover problem and seemed indecisive
October 4 Game 4 at Rams Giants 9 Rams 17
Sy's Game 4 Review
Some Highlights
- first possession was a drop, a sack and a loss of yardage play – 3 and out
– Zeitler and Thomas got pummeled this game – arguably a Zeitler false start cost the Giants points – Hernandez and Gates had a good game, and this is the game that Gates got into a fight with Aaron Donald and changed the game tempo in the second half
- Jones was inaccurate at the end of the game costing chances to score; his receivers were Tate and Slayton and a bunch of no names.
- Edge got no pressure on LA but the DLine held the Rams to 58 yds rushing – there were problems setting the edge
- Ryan Lewis playing opposite Bradburry gave up a lot of pass plays by giving too much cushion – Love gave up a touchdown on a coverage breakdown
– Lawrence had a monster game
October 11 Game 5 at Cowboys Giants 34 Cowboys 37
Sy's Game 5 Review
Some Highlights
- note the Giants won the Home game against the Cowboys on 1/3 23-19
- Jones had a Fumble
- Freeman had a good game – the Giants were power running
– Slayton had a decent game – Tate did not and the no name receiving core out there was an issue, Ratley was called for PI taking away a Slayton Touchdown, Engram was a mixed bag
- Thomas and Flemming were a disaster his game – but Hernandez Gates and Zeitler had a good game – a lot of good lateral pulling helped the run game
– Carter suffered a season ending Achilles injury on the first drive of the game, Fackrel had a good game
– the D Line did not have a good game except for Tomlinson – - Darney Holmes was having tackling issues, Ryan Lewis gave up some big plays in the backfield to Michael Gallup and CeeDee Lamb – who plain up just beat him in coverage – Adrian Colbert Played safety instead of Love and gave up two personal fouls
October 22 Game 7 at Eagles Giants 21 Eagles 22
Sy's Game 7 Review
Some Highlights
- Note the Giants won the Home game on 11/15 27-17
- Ballentine flubbed a special teams opportunity
- Engram had a ball go off his hands for an interception
- Dion Lewis fumbled and turned the ball over with a minute left in the first half
- Hernandez put the team back on it’s heals as they tried to close out in the 4th Q with a holding penalty, Jones fumbled and turned over two plays later
- Freeman got injured and was out of the game – Gallman became the feature running back
– Sheps first game back from injury was a good one but he was the only game in town, Tate and Slayton made no noise at all.
- Andrew Thomas had his worst game of the season, Hernandez struggled, Flemming Struggled, Gates had a good game.
- Tomlinson gave up some big plays up the center.
- Bradberry had a rough game and was flagged for a PI on the game winning drive, Ryan Lewis was torched and was flagged for illegal contact, Ballentine gave up a 3rd and 10 conversion and a illegal hit penalty, Madre Harper was torched, Peppers gave up the game winning TD on a bad play
November 2 Game 8 at Home Bucs 23 Giants 25
Sy's Game 8 Review
Some Highlights
- Jones had a poor game with problems taking advantage of the young TB secondary which even our poor WR class was getting open on
– Jones was facing big pressure all game and was rattled by the pass rush, he gave up two interceptions that he probably shouldn’t have thrown – that became 10 points for TB,
- Slayton had a good game – Tate had a key touchdown and this was the game where he yelled out “throw me the ball.”,
- the running game of Morris, Galman and Lewis was pretty good but Dion Lewis gave up a sack.
- Flemming was a turnstyle – he gave up three pressures and a sack – one of his pressures led to a Jones interception. Lemiuex had his first start and he got roughed up pretty good. Gates and Zeitler had a good game.
- There was no edge pressure on Brady from the outside rush which was neutralized (Fackrel and newly signed Jabaal Sheard)
– the D Line had a very good game and they did get pressure on Brady. A Tomlinson tip led to a turnover for Martinez.
- Secondary was decent but Bradburry (covering Davis) gave up a TD and 2 pass interference calls
Make some arguments either way by discussing the personnel changes made after the season and actual events that occurred in the game that may or may not have been different with the change in staff
By the way -- The Giants were 4-2 in the division last year beating Washington Twice and losing two of the squeakers above
That's a huge problem.
That's a huge problem.
So in your opinion there is no change in personnel on that team that occurred that could improve the way those games ended
That's a huge problem.
I don't know if we'll break the .500 mark, but we should be a tough out for any team that plays us.
really? you don't think analysing how personnel performed, making changes based on that, and discussing how those changes might impact the teams performance has any value?
1) First Dallas game- a screwed up a perfectly good fake FG play resulted in a TD being called back. It was also pretty ticky tack on the call.
2) First Philly game- EE dropped a game sealing pass that 100% led to the loss. Say anything you want about the defense, if that catch is made the game is over!
Ok, without a doubt if Barkley had played against the Rams our offense is much different. NOt significantly better to guarantee a win but, assuming the game itself still played out close (all other items equal) then Barkley gives options out in space that we just didn't have. I think if SB played we win that game.
Chicago- Barkley getting hurt killed us. Assuming we have KG, SB and KR (yes, Rudolph), then I see us having our way with Chicago. Mistakes are magnified when perfection is needed to win. When you have weapons, you can have more risk in your plan, have more ways to overcome mistakes. I think Jones biggest problem last year was becoming gun shy with out options and having to be perfect to win. The harder you try to NOT screw up, the less natural and more easily flustered you end up. We would have beaten Chicago if Barkley alone hadn't been injured.
Tampa Bay- that is a much different game if our weapons are there. Yes, Jones was off some but with more firepower we could have taken advantage of the Bucs that night. In fact, I think our younger Defensive group this year, with Jackson as CB2 and our young safeties would have changed the game as well.
The whole season last year could have been different (woulda, coulda, shoulda- I know) if we had beaten the Boys and the Eagles in the first games between those two. We would be looking at this team in a much different light.
Give me the weapons of today and hopefully the same and or better play of our defense and I think we are a 9-10 win team this year.
Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
It's amazing to think that even though we were so close in a number of games, that people don't see any reason for optimism. Even if the OL is just a relatively small amount better that will equate to more wins in my mind. The bigger the jump the better we will be.
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NO.
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really? you don't think analysing how personnel performed, making changes based on that, and discussing how those changes might impact the teams performance has any value?
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
I realize that i'm asking a lot of you to go through a real analysis here -- my apologies for straining your brain
It's amazing to think that even though we were so close in a number of games, that people don't see any reason for optimism. Even if the OL is just a relatively small amount better that will equate to more wins in my mind. The bigger the jump the better we will be.
Let’s remember that Dallas, and the WFT will be better at the QB position, so I doubt you will see a 4-2 record this year.
I will give you that. The Seattle game was a great.
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
Really? These 5 games all took place in the first half of last season with a young team, new staff and no offseason. In the second half we won close games vs seattle, WFT, Philly, Dallas and Cincy. You really can't look at that objectively and see a trend of a young team figuring out how to win those games over the course of a season?
Bottom line the Giants were a losing football team, and their record ended up where it should have.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
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In comment 15357017 Go Terps said:
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
Really? These 5 games all took place in the first half of last season with a young team, new staff and no offseason. In the second half we won close games vs seattle, WFT, Philly, Dallas and Cincy. You really can't look at that objectively and see a trend of a young team figuring out how to win those games over the course of a season?
Seattle fell apart the second half of the season, and most of the others had backups at QB. The team finished1-3, and beatDallas with a backup QB, so it all meant NOTHING.
Everyone was on the same playing field in the beginning of the year. Again who gives a shit about 2020
They started out 1-7. So no ... I would say no ... they weren't good.
And again, the Seattle game was a great win.
They shouldn't have even lost the Philly away game. If you're a good team, you don't let a bullshit team like that walk away with a win.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
I wouldn't say he's doing that here at all. What in the hell are you even talking about? Who's talking about backup QBs? The Bucs game should of been had with Tom Brady out there.
I think the short answer for Gidie is yes. With the improvement in personnel, the expectations should be to turn some of those close losses into some additional W's
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
I wouldn't say he's doing that here at all. What in the hell are you even talking about? Who's talking about backup QBs? The Bucs game should of been had with Tom Brady out there.
I think the short answer for Gidie is yes. With the improvement in personnel, the expectations should be to turn some of those close losses into some additional W's
The O line is far from improved. Oh I forgot Solder is back.
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
Which game was that?
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
You're the one starting the thread and calling it an analysis. If you want to be taken seriously then do the work instead of whatever this is.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
Ya and if you lose more than you win, you're not going to have a good record.
This is getting weird.
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the improved personnel can and will help - for sure.
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
Which game was that?
The one against the world champs.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
Exactly. The Giants can take a leap forward this year but it won’t be because they were somehow “close” or “unlucky” last year. They won about half of their close games. Their overall point differential showed that they earned their record and perhaps were closer to a 5 win team.
Yep - this is kind of a flawed exercise unless you look at ALL the close results.
NYG 20, WSH 19 - Washington was a successful 2-pt conversion away from winning, in addition to the fact that WFT missed a FG and allowed the Giants defense to score a TD on a fumble.
NYG 19, CIN 17 - Hung on for dear life against a Bengals team playing their first game since losing Joe Burrow for the season. Bengals had the ball at midfield and were only 15 yards away from the potential game-winning FG, but the defense forced a fumble to end it.
NYG 23, DAL 19 - Andy Dalton brought the Cowboys back from 20-6 down, and had them 1st-and-goal at the NYG 7 before a sack and an INT ended the game.
So if the Giants were only a few plays away from winning 10-11 games, they were also only a few plays away from 3-13.
We've come a long way, baby. Remember the 2019 days when the Giants lost by 21 points to New England but we walked away with something a lot more.
You're right. That game was the most frustrating game of Jones career to me. Even Engram came out to play.
We'll see. We'll see.
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In comment 15357053 Go Terps said:
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
You're the one starting the thread and calling it an analysis. If you want to be taken seriously then do the work instead of whatever this is.
Terps -- I know you have a vested interest in discrediting me - we'll see at the end of the season who analyzes things better -- I put up $250 against yours -- but I'm pretty happy with the above analysis -- it suits my view point - if you have something to contribute that would help this discussion great -- if you don't then follow your own advice and stay off my threads -- you continue to flock to me when ever to can just to snort -- not a good look
Ballentine, Ryan Lewis, Flemming, Downs, Harper, Colbert... are any even on an NFL roster now?
And Tate and Dion Lewis were absolutely cooked.
Oh, in the Philly game you forgot Engram's short-arm drop on a pass that would have sealed the win. I forgot that he had one bounce off his hands for an INT earlier.... smh.
BUT - if he can't develop that clutch gene like so many other great QBs have, the Giants just aren't going to get there. In my eyes, it's now or never for him.
are you commenting on this about me for some reason -- I don't remember saying anything one way or the other -- just presenting information for debate
They are who we think they are. A bad losing team. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs?
I do think we take a few of those games with current personnel.
But our offense last year was f'n atrocious.
17.5 pts/game. That was 2nd worst in the entire NFL, with only the Jets taking the rock bottom honors.
No one ingredient makes a recipe. We need better play in a lot of areas. If Mike Mayock gets fired Las Vegas, please hire him and let Gettlemen retire.
Team offense stats - espn - ( New Window )
That's some good science right there!
This is the best NYG team since 2011. It's better than the 2016 team, on paper.
We're going to see a better team this season than the one we saw in 2020.
The OL will be picked up by the entire team. And yes, we have a team now.
This is the best NYG team since 2011. It's better than the 2016 team, on paper.
We're going to see a better team this season than the one we saw in 2020.
The OL will be picked up by the entire team. And yes, we have a team now.
Best Giant tram since 2011 is a very low bar, and to pick up the OL will take more than what the Giants have on the roster.
If the defense improves on the edges and gets off the fookin field more on third downs, it will help give the offense more ToP and help finish winS each season.
OL performance + Jones improvement are two huge 2021 keys.
That's some good science right there!
Teams that can field one superior unit can win more than half of their games. The key will be how good or bad the less than superior unit is, in this case, the offense. how bad is it? Is it 2020 bad? If so, we're probably fucked. But why can't it be just a little bit better?
The 2016 Giants didn't even score 300 pts and they won 11 games. That's not a very sustainable model to be sure, and we saw those fears eventually come back to fruition with the collapse in 17-18.
Why can't this team be better or as good as the 2016 Giants? Or the 2018-2019 Titans? They can be. The D is the reason why. Will the D be good enough? We only have last year and this current model to go on. I don't see why not.
Offensively, they stunk. They all knew it. The game plan was to shorten the game, keep it close, play conservatively and hope to have the ball in the offenses hands at the end of the game with a chance to win.
This year, I can see them at some point in the season becoming a more aggressive team on offense b/c they do have more/better weapons. They have better personnel.
HOWEVER, it's a legit concern that the OL continues to be a problem, the weapons are not working in unison with the QB b/c of the all the time missed, some of those weapons aren't as healthy as they want them to be...it wouldn't surprise me at all to see them revert back to the same plan. Especially early in the season against Denver and WFT where we know their offenses are going to make mistakes.
They are going lean on that defense early to keep them close.
THat offense better come around in October.
We're gonna win games this year. I've seen worse NYG teams win 10 games.
Especially on the O line..
Golladay and Barkley aren't overcoming the negative impacts of Jones and the OL falling flat. I've been saying it since spring - this season is about Jones, the OL, and Garrett's ability to put both in a position to succeed. If you believe in that group then sure 10 wins may be possible. If you don't, then it's going to be a long year.
The haters on here are always going to hate. I don't understand why they come to this site so regularly. Is it just to make sure none of us get too excited about the Giants? Its the same few who are so truly down on every positive take on the Giants that it makes you wonder what team they truly like? Were they originally raised as Jets fans by their Dads and seeing the futility became a half assed Giants fan? Are they just New Yorkers/Jersians who are Cowboys or Eagles fans here to troll? Just seems odd that their 'takes' should always be followed with the Debbie Downer 'waa-waaahhh' sound.
Golladay and Barkley aren't overcoming the negative impacts of Jones and the OL falling flat. I've been saying it since spring - this season is about Jones, the OL, and Garrett's ability to put both in a position to succeed. If you believe in that group then sure 10 wins may be possible. If you don't, then it's going to be a long year.
that's fair, it's the big if or caveat right now.
I think the OL will run block better than people expected but could see some pass pro issues surfacing. I think JOnes is poised to show be belongs as a starting QB, but proof is in the pudding.
I see the Giants finishing with a winning record while things won't be perfect in this offense. That's ok as long as we learn how to win.
But it's a QB league and a QB needs a good OL to function. If Jones is a mid pack 14/15/16 QB instead of 24/25/26 that he was in 2020 then the OL will be playing better and the Giants will have a chance to compete for the the NFC East. A repeat of last years QB and OL play and they'll struggle to match the 6 wins in 2020.
The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.
Golladay and Barkley aren't overcoming the negative impacts of Jones and the OL falling flat. I've been saying it since spring - this season is about Jones, the OL, and Garrett's ability to put both in a position to succeed. If you believe in that group then sure 10 wins may be possible. If you don't, then it's going to be a long year.
Oh, and this year's OL is better than 2016 and I will die on that hill. Also, again, the 2016 Giants scored a whopping 310 points. Eli was pulling some games out in the 4th and doing not much else that year. He was still steady, but the prolific passing game was left behind in 2015 with the ghost of Coughlin.
This team is better.
The haters on here are always going to hate. I don't understand why they come to this site so regularly. Is it just to make sure none of us get too excited about the Giants? Its the same few who are so truly down on every positive take on the Giants that it makes you wonder what team they truly like? Were they originally raised as Jets fans by their Dads and seeing the futility became a half assed Giants fan? Are they just New Yorkers/Jersians who are Cowboys or Eagles fans here to troll? Just seems odd that their 'takes' should always be followed with the Debbie Downer 'waa-waaahhh' sound.
Calling a losing team a losing team is not a hater, but telling it like it is. The bar is so low for some of you people that you will grasp at anything. If you want things to change all that has to happen is like Adrian said to Rocky in Rocky 2. W I N.
Nothing wrong with this analysis. Terps, if you want to include moves by other teams, do it...but IMO, that does not add to this conversation. The convo here is about what if. Simply looking at LAST YEARS games with what we have now.
In other words...would the improvements have made a difference in the games that we played LAST YEAR...in other words, "Do you believe that this years team is X number of points better in the close games that we lost?"
It's really not that damned hard.
Gidie, I think yes. The team is indeed improved enough to have made a difference had we had this team vs. those opponents LAST YEAR.
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Dude. Calm down. We are contributing. No one's going to agree with you 100% of the way.
Actually, you're not contributing. Neither is Terps. You are both criticizing gidie for starting the conversation in the 1st place.
Nothing wrong with this analysis. Terps, if you want to include moves by other teams, do it...but IMO, that does not add to this conversation. The convo here is about what if. Simply looking at LAST YEARS games with what we have now.
In other words...would the improvements have made a difference in the games that we played LAST YEAR...in other words, "Do you believe that this years team is X number of points better in the close games that we lost?"
It's really not that damned hard.
Gidie, I think yes. The team is indeed improved enough to have made a difference had we had this team vs. those opponents LAST YEAR.
And what if Dak, and all the starting QB had played?
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In comment 15357079 Route 9 said:
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Dude. Calm down. We are contributing. No one's going to agree with you 100% of the way.
Actually, you're not contributing. Neither is Terps. You are both criticizing gidie for starting the conversation in the 1st place.
Nothing wrong with this analysis. Terps, if you want to include moves by other teams, do it...but IMO, that does not add to this conversation. The convo here is about what if. Simply looking at LAST YEARS games with what we have now.
In other words...would the improvements have made a difference in the games that we played LAST YEAR...in other words, "Do you believe that this years team is X number of points better in the close games that we lost?"
It's really not that damned hard.
Gidie, I think yes. The team is indeed improved enough to have made a difference had we had this team vs. those opponents LAST YEAR.
And what if Dak, and all the starting QB had played?
I'll add, like christian's comment about possibly losing the close games, worthy of discussion. But, it seems that both of these comments are being used to rebut the OP.
That is where the conflict arises. These things are unrelated to the OP.
"Had the Giants had a better team (asking if you think that the 2021 version is better than the 2020 versios)...do you think that they would have won some of the close games that they lost?"
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This team is unlikely to be as good as 2016 because its two glaring weaknesses are quarterback and OL. A weakness at one of those areas is tough to overcome; being bad at both would completely hamstring the offense.
Golladay and Barkley aren't overcoming the negative impacts of Jones and the OL falling flat. I've been saying it since spring - this season is about Jones, the OL, and Garrett's ability to put both in a position to succeed. If you believe in that group then sure 10 wins may be possible. If you don't, then it's going to be a long year.
Oh, and this year's OL is better than 2016 and I will die on that hill. Also, again, the 2016 Giants scored a whopping 310 points. Eli was pulling some games out in the 4th and doing not much else that year. He was still steady, but the prolific passing game was left behind in 2015 with the ghost of Coughlin.
This team is better.
2016 the giants won because instead of going for high fllying gaudy stats- they invested in defense and played ball control and didnt blow games in the end.
they had the 2nd best scoring D, 2 stud DEs, a MVP Caliber safety season, a stud NT and stud Corner. they were an elite defense that year.
OBJ was elite-
MCadoo did everything in game management that Coughlin didnt do in 2015. they won close games
they won turnover battle.
that defense was embarrassing the packers in the first half of the playoff game- if OBJ didnt fk out (in elis best game) and the hail mary- who knows.
people have false memories of 2016 because mcadoo eventually (rightfully) ended eli and that hurts feelings-- but 2016 was a great overachieve season--- and we have seen nothing to suggest that this will be the case in 2021.
i am hopeful that with weapons the offense looks better and the defense should be a top 7-10 unit.
This year I am hopeful we can win these games because of 1) the return Barkley, 2) the young OL with another year of experience under its belt (that did look better later in the in season), and 3) Jones playing better in year 3 under pressure. If these things happen we can win those games above, which obviously would dramatically swing our season.
We were really not out of many games last year, most were close. A little better offensive execution will go a long way for this team.
2018 titans scored 310 and allowed 303 pts. That team also went 9-7 but missed out on the playoffs.
Fully agree that the lack of PPG bit the Titans on the ass in 2018. While you can win plus games on the backs of a good defense, It isn't sustainable. Then again, lack of a good D isn't sustainable either.
2019 Titans finally scored some points, thanks to Tannehill, scoring 402 and allowing 331. They won 2 playoff games.
2020 Titans the weird evolution continued thanks to Tannehill--11-5 and scored 491--except this time the D allowed 439. That's dangerous. Something to watch in 2021.
The titans pretty much stepped in shit when they landed Tannehill. Now they need to figure out the D and even the OL might be taking on some water, lately.
As to the NFC East, the only team that scored more points than it allowed in 2020 was Washington. They probably should be the pre season favorite since they didn't suffer too much attrition, have the same HC in place for year 2, and likely upgraded at QB with Fitz over Alex Smith's broken leg. I get the sense the Skins will be all over the place in 2021 because Fitz tends to be a weird QB.
The Bears scored 372 and allowed 370 in 2020. Hopefully they regress just a little bit and go 5-12.
The Browns allowed 419 on D last year and still made the playoffs with 11-5 record. They scored 408 pts. They need to be a little careful this year with that big number of points allowed. Titans too. Those are the only 2 teams that finished with winning records despite allowing 400+ on defense. Raiders finished 500 and gave up 470+.
Gotta earn it.
Nothing wrong with this analysis. Terps, if you want to include moves by other teams, do it...but IMO, that does not add to this conversation. The convo here is about what if. Simply looking at LAST YEARS games with what we have now.
In other words...would the improvements have made a difference in the games that we played LAST YEAR...in other words, "Do you believe that this years team is X number of points better in the close games that we lost?"
It's really not that damned hard.
Gidie, I think yes. The team is indeed improved enough to have made a difference had we had this team vs. those opponents LAST YEAR.
I'm contributing just fine. This thread is a nothing burger. Yeah they lost close call games and wound up 6-10. I'm actually just savings thing in you're getting mad.
The Rams game summary is actually off. It was kind of dismissive of Tate and making excuses for Jones (as per usual on here) that he didn't have that good players around him... but what else is new? You guys get pissy when someone dares to mention when he fucks up. I get he's your team's QB but he's open for some criticism.
If anything he's the one who should shoulder blame for that game against the Rams. He had plenty of time to throw and make a good read, and threw the interception, and as I alluded to earlier (your feelings may get hurt) when he overthrew Tate on the 4th down. Watch the play again, even the analysis of the commenator mentioned it was a badly thrown ball.
Someone also mentioned the Tampa Bay miss on the 2 point conversion, which was a horrible game for Jones. Sorry I'm not the protective type?
Either way Tate did his part in that game and he got open. If anything it was Jones who fucked up on the 4th and long and the interception at the end of the game.
Players added will have a big impact as will Toney. Last year they opened with the Steelers who sold out to stop Barkley and this shut him out. Teams will continue this but now you have much more firepower.
On offense it will come down to can they improve on 1st down. If they are in 2nd/3rd and long it highlights issues; Jones having to make progressions and the OL pass blocking which has lead to sacks and/or turnovers. Favorable down/distance creates uncertainty on defense and allows Jones to play the PA game with big chunk plays with the weapons added. If they sit in coverage you now have SB back.
I think the defense will be really good.
Not every losing year is created equal. Not every 9-7 year is created equal. I think we can all see that 1984 9-7 went lot further than 2012 9-7.
We'll see if 2020 6-10 was closer to 2004 or 1992. I think it was closer to 2004.
Not every losing year is created equal. Not every 9-7 year is created equal. I think we can all see that 1984 9-7 went lot further than 2012 9-7.
We'll see if 2020 6-10 was closer to 2004 or 1992. I think it was closer to 2004.
I also said they're going 9-8 this year
Players added will have a big impact as will Toney. Last year they opened with the Steelers who sold out to stop Barkley and this shut him out. Teams will continue this but now you have much more firepower.
On offense it will come down to can they improve on 1st down. If they are in 2nd/3rd and long it highlights issues; Jones having to make progressions and the OL pass blocking which has lead to sacks and/or turnovers. Favorable down/distance creates uncertainty on defense and allows Jones to play the PA game with big chunk plays with the weapons added. If they sit in coverage you now have SB back.
I think the defense will be really good.
Thanks LoS -- I keep leaving Toney and Ojulari out of my analysis for the upcoming season because they are rookies and unknown quantities -- but I am hopeful that they will have at least some impact (in a good way)
Like that season, I expect it to end with a high first round pick used at quarterback.
The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.
This is where you are continually soo so painfully wrong about NFL football - you need both -- but the facts are you only need a better than adequate offense -- you need a really good defense to win championships
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One thing to remember about last year is that the Giants were right there defensively with Tampa, Buffalo, KC, and GB. They won a lot and the Giants didn't because offense wins in today's NFL. Only one team that finished in three bottom half in scoring finished over .500 - the Rams.
The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.
This is where you are continually soo so painfully wrong about NFL football - you need both -- but the facts are you only need a better than adequate offense -- you need a really good defense to win championships
Back to his point though, how many teams that scored less than 25 PPG had a winning record last season?
Was it only the Rams?
Like that season, I expect it to end with a high first round pick used at quarterback.
My biggest fear is that Judge/Graham are too good to let that happen and we end up in QB purgatory.
You QB not good enough to get you there, but a surround team and coaching staff that props them up to make them a marginal playoff contender every year.
This team is looking a lot like the Vikings.
The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.
I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.
I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.
The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.
Maybe. If the Giants scored 21 points in every game last year that puts them at 9 wins, atop the division and in the playoffs. If the defense keeps trending upward we may still get away with a lower scoring offense this year. But if the offense ticks to where you said we are as good or better on defense we will be in the playoffs no question. And 25ppg is not exactly world-beating as an average at this point. I think this particular point on scoring average 100% hinges on the play of the OL. They have to improve. Then to your point Jones has no excuses.
The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.
I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.
I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.
I think a 50% SB is better than what the Giants were throwing out there at RB last year.
I think Booker is better than the hot garbage at RB last year too.
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In comment 15357138 Go Terps said:
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One thing to remember about last year is that the Giants were right there defensively with Tampa, Buffalo, KC, and GB. They won a lot and the Giants didn't because offense wins in today's NFL. Only one team that finished in three bottom half in scoring finished over .500 - the Rams.
The Giants have got to score around 25 PPG - that would put them around midway leaguewide. If they don't there will almost certainly be more losses than wins. This isn't the '80s - the era of winning with defense and time of possession is over.
This is where you are continually soo so painfully wrong about NFL football - you need both -- but the facts are you only need a better than adequate offense -- you need a really good defense to win championships
Back to his point though, how many teams that scored less than 25 PPG had a winning record last season?
Was it only the Rams?
Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.
Also of note, all the teams that scored at least 25 PPG had a .500 or better record except for Minnesota (who at least put up a 7-9 record).
That's a huge problem.
Hi Dnew15, how are you doing?
I think every Giants fan can agree Jones has to play better for us to have a chance at a Super Bowl, where people differ is if he has it in him to raise his level of play.
So let's be fair here, Jones played 8 close games last season.
Week 2 13-17 Bears: We'd have the ball down 4 with 4 minutes to go and then an OL made a miraculous grab for them. We then got the ball with 2:40 and no timeouts, plenty of time left for the comeback. We then complete a 3rd & 10, 4th & 4 and a 3rd & 10 where we got COMPLETELY screwed in ball positioning by the refs which led to us losing 10 seconds with 22 to go and put us on a 1 play 10 yards away from the endzone to end the game.
Week 4 9-17 Rams: Our last 2 drives were going great but ended in a 4th & 11 incompletion where the ball was a little bit high but Tate should have caught it, and DJ was great in the last drive up until a terrible INT, unnecessary throw where it looks like the ball lacked zip.
Week 5 34-37 Cowboys: Got some lucky bounces our way to begin the 4th quarter, Jones had a very good throw with 1:40 to go but the drive stalled after that. Dallas got the ball with 48 seconds left at 34-34 and nearly drove the entire field.
Week 6 20-19 WFT: Jones threw a terrible RZ INT late in the 3rd quarter that led the game to a 13-13 tie. Our offense never scored after mid-2nd quarter, awful way to close out a game but we did win it.
Week 7 21-22 Eagles: 21-10 with five minutes to go, this game was a defensive meltdown (a rare feat last season). We were having a very good drive to put the game to rest and then came that EE drop in a perfect DJ pass. We got it back with 40 seconds, no timeouts. Easy 7-yard pass to start the drive called back after a holding penalty that cost us 11 seconds. 29 seconds left, pocket collapsed, Jones held the ball too long, didn't sense the pressure from behind and fumbled the ball win 23 seconds left to essentialy end the game.
Week 8 23-25 TB: To me this game was both the lowest point in DJ's career and the day he started to fully understand how to QB in the NFL effectively. We'll see if that trend continues this season, but to me he's been playing smart football ever since the 2nd INT in this game. He did had a nothing short than awesome drive to end the game, with a 4th & 5 and 4th & 16 conversion and an absolute dime to Golden Tate for the TD. I do think he was a little bit slow in the 2 point conversion, but it was more a terrific play by a great player (Winfield Jr.).
Week 9 23-20 WFT: Again vs WFT the offense started great and stalled in the 2nd half. This D was a problem for a LOT of teams last season. 2 INT's in the last 5 minutes won us this game.
Week 17 23-19 Cowboys: Jones played a very good game in the biggest spot he's been so far in his career, a maybe win-and-in scenario.
Sorry for the long post.
Obviously we want to see some higher scoring games from our team and there were some self inflicted wound with stupid penalties, very bad pass blocking and some DJ brain farts.
As you can see it was more of a mixed bag, with more bad coming in the beginning of the season and more of the good stuff coming towards the end. The only reason why week 10 27-17 vs the eagles wasn't a closer game was that DJ did what he is supposed to do and put the game to bed early. Didn't count Bengals 19-17 game because he was injured, but was playing well before that.
Anyway, I hope and believe he'll show up as a better, more complete QB this season.
The D is much improved. Just think Cory Ballentine was playing a lot...lol. The D should be better and they were good last year.
I think we are in for a lot of close games with the shaky OL early and see much better O in the mid to late season.
I think 7 wins is our floor and 11 wins is the absolute ceiling. I predict 10-7.
It was Corey Ballentine, Ryan Lewis and Madre Harper opposite Bradberry - each of them was benched and/or replaced by one of the others at some point -- they were terrible
Adoree Jackson replacing those guys is huge!!!
Let's set down a goalpost.
If the defense improves on the edges and gets off the fookin field more on third downs, it will help give the offense more ToP and help finish winS each season.
Amen. As a relatively disliked talking head likes to say, "playing a lot less defense can have the same effect as playing better defense"
But more importantly I do think we have the roster and coaching to have a good shot at winning every game we play this season. How many of them bounce our way I don't know, maybe something between 8-11?
Having Eli as the QB of my favorite team will do that to you.
When Eli was in his prime, and the game was close, and he had the ball in his hands with a chance to win - you just knew he was going to make it happen.
I don't get that feeling with DJ...yet.
He's got one more year to convince me..then I'm out.
Week 8 23-25 TB: To me this game was both the lowest point in DJ's career and the day he started to fully understand how to QB in the NFL effectively. We'll see if that trend continues this season, but to me he's been playing smart football ever since the 2nd INT in this game. He did had a nothing short than awesome drive to end the game, with a 4th & 5 and 4th & 16 conversion and an absolute dime to Golden Tate for the TD. I do think he was a little bit slow in the 2 point conversion, but it was more a terrific play by a great player (Winfield Jr.).
2 plays in this game, both forced throws in the second half that were INTs ruined the game and ruined how Daniel Jones is viewed by the fans, the media, opposing fans and the other teams in the league. All he had to do was chuck those balls out of bounds instead of forcing the ball and he wins the game.
the MO on Daniel Jones is that he turns the ball over, he forces things, and that he's not a smart QB. Until he changes that, if he keeps turning the ball over at an alarming rate, the opinion on him will remain the same.
Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.
The year prior there were 5 of them and 2 years prior there were 4. So last season is likely the outlier.
This is not to diminish the pt you re making though, the Giants should be a better team this season
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Did a quick check and it was only the Rams. And they had the overall #1 defense.
The year prior there were 5 of them and 2 years prior there were 4. So last season is likely the outlier.
Got it, thx. Yet still a pretty small amount of teams nevertheless. So the point on points remains.
And it's not like anybody should be expecting some resurgence of the Steel Curtain and Purple People Eaters types around the league lowering the scoring trends...
Got it, thx. Yet still a pretty small amount of teams nevertheless. So the point on points remains.
And it's not like anybody should be expecting some resurgence of the Steel Curtain and Purple People Eaters types around the league lowering the scoring trends...
Agreed, and to be fair averaging 25 points per game in this version of the NFL really should absolutely be attainable.
This season can't start fast enough... lol. OMG do I hope the OL proves to be well improved.
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with players not performing up to billing, it's time to shrink the delta on the football field. LFG.
Especially on the O line..
It is ridiculously hard to not have a some sort of regression or improvement in close games W/L due to chance, roster improvement/detoriation, injury, etc.
I'd agree with others that say looking at close games from last year and trying to project that to this year's roster doesnt really correlate.
So simple yet so true.
That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
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You can't postulate about close losses without applying the same scrutiny to close wins in order to make a credible argument.
That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
Replace the 2020 skill players with who we have now, and determine how many wins that garners in close games.
Does anyone disagree that we don't win more games?
I feel it gives us at least 2 of those games.
We already know the answer to that question with number of posters though... lol.
That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Replace the 2020 skill players with who we have now, and determine how many wins that garners in close games.
Does anyone disagree that we don't win more games?
I feel it gives us at least 2 of those games.
We already know the answer to that question with number of posters though... lol.
Can make it simpler than that...
The 2021 NY Giants have a better roster of available players than they did last season. A better roster should yield better results.
That's all.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
I'm actually pretty amazed we got six wins last year.
Graham kept us in quite a few games - granted we were in a cesspool of a division - despite an anemic offense that scored 17+ PPG. So I feel great about another year with him at the helm and more talent on that side of the ball.
But playing in this what-if-fantasy-land seems very silly...
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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
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In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.
That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.
Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.
If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.
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In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.
That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.
Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.
If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.
No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.
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In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:
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In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.
That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.
Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.
If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.
No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.
by the way -- if all you do is repeat the same thing over and over again maybe twelve to twenty times a thread - you will be treated like a troll
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In comment 15357381 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15357348 Old Blue said:
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In comment 15357295 Chris684 said:
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In comment 15357287 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15357275 Chris684 said:
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That sums up the flawed thesis of this post very well.
Always easy to cherry pick the close games that didn't go our way.
If we didn't have the Black Picasso organizing the defense last year, I don't think we get anymore than 3-4 wins. That's the real story...
Is gidiefor really making this argument though?
It seems to me he's acknowledging that the team suffered some tough losses and is opining/asking if the influx of talent can get us over the hump in those types of games THIS year?
He assumes the other teams are static.
It's just a big "what-if" game. Right?
- But what if Dak stayed healthy all year?
- But what if Philly wasn't decimated with injuries?
- But what if Burrow is healthy for Cincinnati?
- Etc.
Yea, pretty sure we're all aware of that.
Christ almighty some of you are so literal and negative that we can't even discuss any optimistic possibilities without the army of sorrow and pain killing some positive football talk.
Have a winning record, and I’ll give you all the positive talk you want, but until then none is deserved.
Thanks, I’ll be sure to wait around for your permission.
That said, after 2017-2019, I’m surprised there are people who follow this team who don’t feel like last year was anything less than a step in the right direction. This defense was established and figures to be better this season with guys like McKinney and Carter healthy and Jackson as 2nd CB.
Offensively, how they scored any points last year was a minor miracle. Worst group of skill position players on the field easily since the mid 90’s once Barkley went down.
If you want to chalk it up to 6-10 and say they sucked, that’s anyone’s right. But it lacks A LOT of context.
No permission needed on both sides of the opinion, but only some would say 6-10, and having a losing record 9 out of the last 10 would say that was a step in the right direction. Barkley went down last yea4, but hasn’t improved the Giants record the first two years he played, and neither has DJ. Two bad draft picks. 6-10 is 6-10.
by the way -- if all you do is repeat the same thing over and over again maybe twelve to twenty times a thread - you will be treated like a troll
I keep saying the same things, because nothing has changed with the teams record. I don’t grasp at every little straw thinking that more will come out, and everything is alive and well, and wear blue colored glasses all the time. I don’t ask for much just a simple 9-8 record. I’ve been a fan since 1960, so I have seen all the good, the bad, and ugly. Call it trolling all you want.
In 2021 NFL, 31-29 seems kind of ... average.
In 2020, Giants AVERAGED just over 17 points a game. That is horrid. They were lucky to total six wins.
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In comment 15357120 JonC said:
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with players not performing up to billing, it's time to shrink the delta on the football field. LFG.
Especially on the O line..
Here's where I've been stumped lately. We've changed the players. We've changed the coaches, we've changed the GM. We can't seem to consistently find (draft or FA), develop, or coach our OL. I don't know that this year is any different in that regard. I'm hoping the talent added 'around' the OL can help, but looking at our FA and draft moves, our cutting 90 percent of the 2nd team OL 3 weeks before game1 still seems like something a winning franchise doesn't do. Makes me feel as though we are still 'searching' in all aspects of OL. Thats my biggest worry for this season.
They definitely are still searching for an OL. Until the five parts perform accordingly, they'll be searching.
Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:
255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.
So there goes that theory.
I'm contributing just fine. This thread is a nothing burger. Yeah they lost close call games and wound up 6-10. I'm actually just savings thing in you're getting mad.
The Rams game summary is actually off. It was kind of dismissive of Tate and making excuses for Jones (as per usual on here) that he didn't have that good players around him... but what else is new? You guys get pissy when someone dares to mention when he fucks up. I get he's your team's QB but he's open for some criticism.
If anything he's the one who should shoulder blame for that game against the Rams. He had plenty of time to throw and make a good read, and threw the interception, and as I alluded to earlier (your feelings may get hurt) when he overthrew Tate on the 4th down. Watch the play again, even the analysis of the commenator mentioned it was a badly thrown ball.
Someone also mentioned the Tampa Bay miss on the 2 point conversion, which was a horrible game for Jones. Sorry I'm not the protective type?
Either way Tate did his part in that game and he got open. If anything it was Jones who fucked up on the 4th and long and the interception at the end of the game.
So move on. Ignore it.
You wait for someone to post something positive about the team, and you "come to the rescue" by letting those in the conversation know that they are WRONG!
That there's no good reason to enjoy the start of the season. That the GM/QB/whomever...stinks and that hope is stupid.
Find someplace else to take a shit.
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If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.
Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:
255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.
So there goes that theory.
It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.
That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.
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In comment 15357761 Go Terps said:
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If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.
Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:
255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.
So there goes that theory.
It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.
That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.
And they got half their rushing yards in the first half. So context is key. They ran the ball the whole game. Thanks for proving my point. TB ran the ball better in the playoffs than in the regular season by nearly 30%. Quite a big jump.
Quote:
If you're watching tonight you're seeing what this league is about. Scoring points, and doing it through the air.
Yet when TB won in the polayoffs:
255 average during the playoffs in the air down from 290 in the regular season. They did rush for 122.5 yards per game in the playoffs up from the 95 they averaged during the regular season.
So there goes that theory.
?? You really think scoring points and it coming via passing game in today's NFL is some kind of "theory"?
Do some more research...
It might have something to do with the fact that after they took a 28-6 lead midway thru the 3rd quarter of the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay threw for 21 yards because they were killing the clock. They attempted 3 passes in the entire 4th quarter, again, because the game was over.
That's why averages in small samples with no context are useless. In the first half, Tom Brady was 14-20 for 140 yards and 3 TDs. He had another 40 yards passing on their first drive of the 3rd quarter, when they made it 28-6. After that, they stopped passing.
And they got half their rushing yards in the first half. So context is key. They ran the ball the whole game. Thanks for proving my point. TB ran the ball better in the playoffs than in the regular season by nearly 30%. Quite a big jump.
Your point is that Tampa ran the ball effectively in the playoffs, but also threw it extremely well and scored a shitload of points as a result?
I'm sure you want that to prove that running the ball wins games and scores points, but it doesn't and you're wrong and ridiculous.
Your point is that Tampa ran the ball effectively in the playoffs, but also threw it extremely well and scored a shitload of points as a result?
I'm sure you want that to prove that running the ball wins games and scores points, but it doesn't and you're wrong and ridiculous.
IMO, I dont think they threw the ball extremely well in the playoffs last year. Maybe effectively. And remember - we cant count the Washington game as a good game because they had a losing record (according to some here on BBI.... haha)
Will check back on the thread later to see if your position can be backed up...
"the schedule last year was the reason they even won 6 games" or "they only won 1 game vs. a good team" and
"any signs of progress are false hope" regardless of context
it's really not that complicated - last year's team made very few big plays on offense and made too many mistakes (many of which negated big plays that would have flipped the outcome of games mentioned by the OP). despite that they were competitive most weeks.
if they clean up mistakes (better OL play would help)
and make more big plays (barkley, golladay, toney, better Jones should help)
then they should win more games. writing off their competitiveness last year as "same old" seems to completely lack the context of a having a promising first year head coach, what was I believe the youngest starting 22 in football, and what I also believe objectively turned out to actually be one of the harder schedules in football.
One of their 3rd place finishers from 2019 turned out to be Tampa, who obviously was a higher quality opponent than the formula would have expected. As weak as the NFCE was the NFCW has been probably the strongest division in the NFC for a few years now. The AFC North had 3 teams win 11+ games.
Self-knowledge is your first step. Tonight maybe a surprise, this year maybe a surprise, you just never know.