The question is by losing:
Zeitler, Flemming, Tomlinson, Harper, Ballantine, Tate, Downs and Gallman
and by gaining:
Golloday, Jackson, Rudolph, Barkley, McKinley, Shelton and Booker
Could the Giants have won these five games?
Here are the games and Sy's review of each linked:
Sept 20 Game 2 at Chicago Giants 13 Bears 17
Sy's Game 2 Review
Some Highlights
- We lost Barkley for the season and Shep got injured and left the game
- it was Thomases' 2nd game as a rookie and he got abused
- the Defense hadn't gelled yet and was having problems making 3rd down stops
- Ballentine, Tomlinson, Downs and Peppers were getting beat or pushed back on 3rd and 4th down plays
- Jones had a Turnover problem and seemed indecisive
October 4 Game 4 at Rams Giants 9 Rams 17
Sy's Game 4 Review
Some Highlights
- first possession was a drop, a sack and a loss of yardage play – 3 and out
– Zeitler and Thomas got pummeled this game – arguably a Zeitler false start cost the Giants points – Hernandez and Gates had a good game, and this is the game that Gates got into a fight with Aaron Donald and changed the game tempo in the second half
- Jones was inaccurate at the end of the game costing chances to score; his receivers were Tate and Slayton and a bunch of no names.
- Edge got no pressure on LA but the DLine held the Rams to 58 yds rushing – there were problems setting the edge
- Ryan Lewis playing opposite Bradburry gave up a lot of pass plays by giving too much cushion – Love gave up a touchdown on a coverage breakdown
– Lawrence had a monster game
October 11 Game 5 at Cowboys Giants 34 Cowboys 37
Sy's Game 5 Review
Some Highlights
- note the Giants won the Home game against the Cowboys on 1/3 23-19
- Jones had a Fumble
- Freeman had a good game – the Giants were power running
– Slayton had a decent game – Tate did not and the no name receiving core out there was an issue, Ratley was called for PI taking away a Slayton Touchdown, Engram was a mixed bag
- Thomas and Flemming were a disaster his game – but Hernandez Gates and Zeitler had a good game – a lot of good lateral pulling helped the run game
– Carter suffered a season ending Achilles injury on the first drive of the game, Fackrel had a good game
– the D Line did not have a good game except for Tomlinson – - Darney Holmes was having tackling issues, Ryan Lewis gave up some big plays in the backfield to Michael Gallup and CeeDee Lamb – who plain up just beat him in coverage – Adrian Colbert Played safety instead of Love and gave up two personal fouls
October 22 Game 7 at Eagles Giants 21 Eagles 22
Sy's Game 7 Review
Some Highlights
- Note the Giants won the Home game on 11/15 27-17
- Ballentine flubbed a special teams opportunity
- Engram had a ball go off his hands for an interception
- Dion Lewis fumbled and turned the ball over with a minute left in the first half
- Hernandez put the team back on it’s heals as they tried to close out in the 4th Q with a holding penalty, Jones fumbled and turned over two plays later
- Freeman got injured and was out of the game – Gallman became the feature running back
– Sheps first game back from injury was a good one but he was the only game in town, Tate and Slayton made no noise at all.
- Andrew Thomas had his worst game of the season, Hernandez struggled, Flemming Struggled, Gates had a good game.
- Tomlinson gave up some big plays up the center.
- Bradberry had a rough game and was flagged for a PI on the game winning drive, Ryan Lewis was torched and was flagged for illegal contact, Ballentine gave up a 3rd and 10 conversion and a illegal hit penalty, Madre Harper was torched, Peppers gave up the game winning TD on a bad play
November 2 Game 8 at Home Bucs 23 Giants 25
Sy's Game 8 Review
Some Highlights
- Jones had a poor game with problems taking advantage of the young TB secondary which even our poor WR class was getting open on
– Jones was facing big pressure all game and was rattled by the pass rush, he gave up two interceptions that he probably shouldn’t have thrown – that became 10 points for TB,
- Slayton had a good game – Tate had a key touchdown and this was the game where he yelled out “throw me the ball.”,
- the running game of Morris, Galman and Lewis was pretty good but Dion Lewis gave up a sack.
- Flemming was a turnstyle – he gave up three pressures and a sack – one of his pressures led to a Jones interception. Lemiuex had his first start and he got roughed up pretty good. Gates and Zeitler had a good game.
- There was no edge pressure on Brady from the outside rush which was neutralized (Fackrel and newly signed Jabaal Sheard)
– the D Line had a very good game and they did get pressure on Brady. A Tomlinson tip led to a turnover for Martinez.
- Secondary was decent but Bradburry (covering Davis) gave up a TD and 2 pass interference calls
Make some arguments either way by discussing the personnel changes made after the season and actual events that occurred in the game that may or may not have been different with the change in staff
By the way -- The Giants were 4-2 in the division last year beating Washington Twice and losing two of the squeakers above
That's a huge problem.
That's a huge problem.
So in your opinion there is no change in personnel on that team that occurred that could improve the way those games ended
That's a huge problem.
I don't know if we'll break the .500 mark, but we should be a tough out for any team that plays us.
really? you don't think analysing how personnel performed, making changes based on that, and discussing how those changes might impact the teams performance has any value?
1) First Dallas game- a screwed up a perfectly good fake FG play resulted in a TD being called back. It was also pretty ticky tack on the call.
2) First Philly game- EE dropped a game sealing pass that 100% led to the loss. Say anything you want about the defense, if that catch is made the game is over!
Ok, without a doubt if Barkley had played against the Rams our offense is much different. NOt significantly better to guarantee a win but, assuming the game itself still played out close (all other items equal) then Barkley gives options out in space that we just didn't have. I think if SB played we win that game.
Chicago- Barkley getting hurt killed us. Assuming we have KG, SB and KR (yes, Rudolph), then I see us having our way with Chicago. Mistakes are magnified when perfection is needed to win. When you have weapons, you can have more risk in your plan, have more ways to overcome mistakes. I think Jones biggest problem last year was becoming gun shy with out options and having to be perfect to win. The harder you try to NOT screw up, the less natural and more easily flustered you end up. We would have beaten Chicago if Barkley alone hadn't been injured.
Tampa Bay- that is a much different game if our weapons are there. Yes, Jones was off some but with more firepower we could have taken advantage of the Bucs that night. In fact, I think our younger Defensive group this year, with Jackson as CB2 and our young safeties would have changed the game as well.
The whole season last year could have been different (woulda, coulda, shoulda- I know) if we had beaten the Boys and the Eagles in the first games between those two. We would be looking at this team in a much different light.
Give me the weapons of today and hopefully the same and or better play of our defense and I think we are a 9-10 win team this year.
Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
It's amazing to think that even though we were so close in a number of games, that people don't see any reason for optimism. Even if the OL is just a relatively small amount better that will equate to more wins in my mind. The bigger the jump the better we will be.
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NO.
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really? you don't think analysing how personnel performed, making changes based on that, and discussing how those changes might impact the teams performance has any value?
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
I realize that i'm asking a lot of you to go through a real analysis here -- my apologies for straining your brain
It's amazing to think that even though we were so close in a number of games, that people don't see any reason for optimism. Even if the OL is just a relatively small amount better that will equate to more wins in my mind. The bigger the jump the better we will be.
Let’s remember that Dallas, and the WFT will be better at the QB position, so I doubt you will see a 4-2 record this year.
I will give you that. The Seattle game was a great.
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
Really? These 5 games all took place in the first half of last season with a young team, new staff and no offseason. In the second half we won close games vs seattle, WFT, Philly, Dallas and Cincy. You really can't look at that objectively and see a trend of a young team figuring out how to win those games over the course of a season?
Bottom line the Giants were a losing football team, and their record ended up where it should have.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
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In comment 15357017 Go Terps said:
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Yeah exactly and who really cares? More forgettable games. Good teams win close games. Bad teams ... do not.
Really? These 5 games all took place in the first half of last season with a young team, new staff and no offseason. In the second half we won close games vs seattle, WFT, Philly, Dallas and Cincy. You really can't look at that objectively and see a trend of a young team figuring out how to win those games over the course of a season?
Seattle fell apart the second half of the season, and most of the others had backups at QB. The team finished1-3, and beatDallas with a backup QB, so it all meant NOTHING.
Everyone was on the same playing field in the beginning of the year. Again who gives a shit about 2020
They started out 1-7. So no ... I would say no ... they weren't good.
And again, the Seattle game was a great win.
They shouldn't have even lost the Philly away game. If you're a good team, you don't let a bullshit team like that walk away with a win.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
I wouldn't say he's doing that here at all. What in the hell are you even talking about? Who's talking about backup QBs? The Bucs game should of been had with Tom Brady out there.
I think the short answer for Gidie is yes. With the improvement in personnel, the expectations should be to turn some of those close losses into some additional W's
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
I wouldn't say he's doing that here at all. What in the hell are you even talking about? Who's talking about backup QBs? The Bucs game should of been had with Tom Brady out there.
I think the short answer for Gidie is yes. With the improvement in personnel, the expectations should be to turn some of those close losses into some additional W's
The O line is far from improved. Oh I forgot Solder is back.
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
Which game was that?
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
You're the one starting the thread and calling it an analysis. If you want to be taken seriously then do the work instead of whatever this is.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
Ya and if you lose more than you win, you're not going to have a good record.
This is getting weird.
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the improved personnel can and will help - for sure.
BUT Dion Lewis was open for the 2 pt conversion - throw the damn ball.
That's on him. He has yet to make a play that makes me a believer with the game on the line.
Before I believe in DJ all in - he's got to give me something to believe in.
Which game was that?
The one against the world champs.
I say that because I think you can do this for 5 of the 6 wins too.
Exactly. The Giants can take a leap forward this year but it won’t be because they were somehow “close” or “unlucky” last year. They won about half of their close games. Their overall point differential showed that they earned their record and perhaps were closer to a 5 win team.
Yep - this is kind of a flawed exercise unless you look at ALL the close results.
NYG 20, WSH 19 - Washington was a successful 2-pt conversion away from winning, in addition to the fact that WFT missed a FG and allowed the Giants defense to score a TD on a fumble.
NYG 19, CIN 17 - Hung on for dear life against a Bengals team playing their first game since losing Joe Burrow for the season. Bengals had the ball at midfield and were only 15 yards away from the potential game-winning FG, but the defense forced a fumble to end it.
NYG 23, DAL 19 - Andy Dalton brought the Cowboys back from 20-6 down, and had them 1st-and-goal at the NYG 7 before a sack and an INT ended the game.
So if the Giants were only a few plays away from winning 10-11 games, they were also only a few plays away from 3-13.
We've come a long way, baby. Remember the 2019 days when the Giants lost by 21 points to New England but we walked away with something a lot more.
You're right. That game was the most frustrating game of Jones career to me. Even Engram came out to play.
We'll see. We'll see.
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In comment 15357053 Go Terps said:
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If this were an actual analysis you'd be looking also at the changes made by the Giants' opponents to their teams as well. You'd also be considering the opponents' injury issues last year - such as the Giants playing 6 games against backup quarterbacks.
We've been doing this for years now... Pointing to improved records in the second half that turned 2-14 seasons into 6-10 seasons as a sign that things are getting better.
Eventually you're going to be able to recognize a false dawn when you see one.
Sure Terps -- those would be great additions to this analysis -- why don't you help us out here
You're the one starting the thread and calling it an analysis. If you want to be taken seriously then do the work instead of whatever this is.
Terps -- I know you have a vested interest in discrediting me - we'll see at the end of the season who analyzes things better -- I put up $250 against yours -- but I'm pretty happy with the above analysis -- it suits my view point - if you have something to contribute that would help this discussion great -- if you don't then follow your own advice and stay off my threads -- you continue to flock to me when ever to can just to snort -- not a good look
Ballentine, Ryan Lewis, Flemming, Downs, Harper, Colbert... are any even on an NFL roster now?
And Tate and Dion Lewis were absolutely cooked.
Oh, in the Philly game you forgot Engram's short-arm drop on a pass that would have sealed the win. I forgot that he had one bounce off his hands for an INT earlier.... smh.
BUT - if he can't develop that clutch gene like so many other great QBs have, the Giants just aren't going to get there. In my eyes, it's now or never for him.
are you commenting on this about me for some reason -- I don't remember saying anything one way or the other -- just presenting information for debate
They are who we think they are. A bad losing team. Playoffs? Did someone say playoffs?